Royal Navy nuclear submarine captain rapped for letting crew throw shoreside BBQ party

A Royal Navy submarine captain is in hot water after returning from a months-long deployment and allowing his crew to have a dockside barbecue to celebrate their return. HMS Trenchant, which previously set a record for the longest patrol ever conducted by an RN submarine, returned to Devonport naval base in the southwest …

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG

Don't they realise that the only effective protection against Corona Virus is to be as miserable as sin every minute of every day? The only way we are going to get through this as a country is if anytime you see someone smile you must immediately phone the police who will send a helicopter with a bucket of cold water to douse the miscreants. And obviously, leaving the safe confined air recirculated close proximity of a sub for the shore - madness - how do they know that that bit of shore wasn't contaminated by a seagull that had perched on a contaminated Amazon parcel on a doorstep and then perched on the dockside. It would only take one sailor to trip face first and lick the dock and then everyone on board would have died in seconds.

[Martin Summers]

Re: OMG

"And obviously, leaving the safe confined air recirculated close proximity of a sub for the shore - madness"

Quite. I am sure after they've been back for a day they'll be clamouring to get back in the tin can and resurface again when all this is over!

[NightFox]

Re: OMG

From what I understand there's a bit more to this than the tabloids are reporting (shock, horror).

Apparently the submarine's commander had proposed the BBQ party to his superiors, but worried that it might be viewed as being inappropriate and could have been picked up by the ever-fickle media ("NAVY PARTIES AND IGNORES SOCIAL DISTANCING WHILE UK DEATHS SOAR" etc), they had said it shouldn't go ahead. However, it seems that the commander went against that and held it anyway, and hence now is getting hauled over the coals.

Still, what good is that version for stirring up apoplectic outrage amongst the red-top readers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: OMG

This is terrible practice.

Everybody knows that forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission. He should have just gone and done it without asking on his own initiative and then said "we've been at sea in a frigging nuclear submarine since before Covid19 was reported in China and didn't know this would be a problem" if anybody reported it.

Once you've asked higher ups and been told "no" though, then you've got a problem. A serious problem. If he was going to ignore orders and hold a party then he ought to have done it in style and invaded a sand bank or uninhabited island where it would be literally impossible for any miserable fucker with a smartphone to see the festivities.

[Anonymous Coward]

Another thing...

If only they had realised that all you have to do for a free 'get together in a big group' pass was to bang on a pot, clap and put up a sign that says 'thank you NHS'?

[Captain Scarlet]

Re: Another thing...

Don't forget the fireworks...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

That's a sore point. My daughter's boss got 3rd degree burns from a covidiot letting off a firework!

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: Another thing...

Only if the idiot stuck it in the assholes asshole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HZ2_9S_Phc

[Captain Scarlet]

Re: Another thing...

I need a sarcastic flag as tbh it hacks me off setting off fireworks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

"Don't forget the fireworks..."

and the masks - the GUY FAWKES masks!

[GruntyMcPugh]

Re: Another thing...

@Captain Scarlet: "Don't forget the fireworks..."

I wish people would NOT let off frikking fireworks, ... two reasons, first, many key workers work shifts, so if people really give a hoot about key workers, stop waking the poor buggers up every Thursday,... second, this Thurs we were out in the garden as it was sunny,... out wth our dogs, and I wasn't paying attention to the time, then some idiot started letting off fireworks, so the dogs ran inside, one went and hid under the dining table.

[Matthew Taylor]

Re: Another thing...

And remember, you'd better not be the first to stop clapping this Thursday evening! Or else that 'rona will git ya!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

“ If only they had realised that all you have to do for a free 'get together in a big group' pass was to bang on a pot, clap and put up a sign that says 'thank you NHS'?”

Careful. The Manchester Evening News reports one woman was outed by her neighbours for not taking part in the weekly outpouring of vacuous behaviour. Who needs Big Brother when you’ve got a population of fucking idiots to do the job for you?

Anon, for obvious reasons.

[Rol]

Re: Another thing...

Unfortunately the silver lining of Jeremy Kyle type TV programs having been temporarily abandoned, has resulted in the normally occupied TV audience and there wider cunterpart *, the baying public, to seek other avenues of entertainment. And clearly, suffering, is what passes for delightful entertainment in those circles.

* it was a genuine typo, but strangely seems more appropriate, so I took it as a sign from a higher being and who am I to argue with higher beings.

[Chris G]

Re: Another thing...

Baying public.

Hmm I have a nice line of social distancing aids for sale, in other times they would be recognised as pitchforks, 2 metres long they are perfect for fending off offending social proximity fans.

They come with a flaming (when lit) torch as a kit, if the proximitist gets past the pitchfork you can burn them.

Only one kit per rabble member.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Another thing...

A friend of mine is a key worker. She was telling me that after a particularly hard day at work that ended up over 10 hours, she got home shortly before 8pm, and "collapsed into the sofa" (her words).

2 minutes later, her neighbours were banging on her door "Come on Sarah, it's time to clap the NHS".

She ignored them.

Herd immunity? Herd mentallity more like. I wonder how many of these clappers voted for Brexit and the Tories, but feel good about themselves because they to outside to clap?

I presume the really caring ones also click "like" on a few relevant facebook posts... Come on Facebook...

[gotes]

Re: Another thing...

It does bother me that healthcare workers are getting all the glory. I appreciate they're having a harder time than most, but nobody's clapping for the supermarket staff, refuse collectors, frontline logistics workers, etc.

Also, can I politely request that we leave "The Tories" and "Brexit" out of this? This isn't HYS. Do you really think things would be different with another party in government, or if we voted to stay in the EU? For the record, I'm a "remoaner" and have never voted Conservative.

[ragnar]

Re: Another thing...

"Do you really think things would be different with another party in government?"

Maybe yes? There are plenty of governments around the world who didn't ignore their pandemic preparedness warnings or defund their health and social care services. There are examples of governments who didn't dabble with herd immunity, who followed WHO advice, who locked down early, and had fewer deaths as a result.

Things don't always have to be this shambolically run - we can, and should, aspire to be governed by a competent political class that isn't beholden to financial interests, as some other countries are lucky enough to have.

And while I do share your boredom at constant Brexit mentions, it has been specifically cited as one of the reasons our pandemic plans have not been well executed; because civil service energy was being directed elsewhere for the last two years. Governments have limited bandwidth.

[Intractable Potsherd]

Re: Another thing...

@ragnar: "There are examples of governments who didn't dabble with herd immunity, who followed WHO advice, who locked down early, and had fewer deaths as a result." They have had fewer deaths *so far*. No-one knows what the medium-term outcome for any of the strategies will be - we will only have any inkling of an idea in about 12 months.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Another thing...

I made a mistake just referring to Sarah as a "key worker" - she's a care worker - working with people with mental health issues. But because she doesn't wear a nurses uniform, the neighbours didn't even make that connection.

As for your request, I'm not a cheerleader for any party, and I'd love to leave The Tories and Brexit out of this, but in addition to the vaild points in the reply from "ragnor", my point was related to the hypocrisy of it all.

Boris etc. loving the nurses and the NHS and using trite little slogans praising the NHS whilst the Tories have stripped the NHS bare, and voted against a (still below inflation) pay cap freeze back in 2017. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/public-sector-pay-cap-vote-conservatives-cheer-tory-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-dup-a7813661.html

And of course, the fact we have less PPE for the health staff because on 3 occasions, the Tories refused to join an EU procurment scheme (because... brexit.. and we can do it alone), and lied about "not receiving the email" when found out https://www.ft.com/content/58f5f476-7a85-4785-81bd-0806ff7c6ded

So, unfortunately the Tories and Brexit are very relevant here.

P.S. I didn't downvote you

[Mark 65]

Re: Another thing...

The world is full of thick c*nts that need an outlet. This is their opportunity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

Posting as a resident of elsewhere in the world, so bear that in mind when reading my comment...

What puzzles me is that the whole strategy of the UK appears to be geared towards protecting the NHS. Not, say, the people? Or even the economy? "Stay Home! Protect The NHS! Save Lives!" - what a weird way of phrasing it. Shouldn't that slogan at least be in a different order of priorities? "Stay home! Save Lives! Protect The Vulnerable!" I could understand. But speaking of the NHS as though it's a particularly frail old grandma, rather than a vast state-run enterprise?

And as for the "clap for the NHS"... what started as a cute, spontaneous one-off gesture seems to have morphed into a compulsory exercise in Showing Your Party Loyalty - a sort of "Two Minutes' Hate" in reverse, complete with disapproving tut-tutting and social ostracism if you don't comply.

It's as if the NHS is seen as the only thing of value in the country and must be protected at all costs, and anyone who quibbles - or, heaven forbid, looks like they're actually thinking for themselves or not sharing the compulsory misery - is summarily shot.

Yes, I get that the point of lockdown is - or was - to ensure that the NHS' critical care facilities aren't overloaded, but surely that's more an indictment of appalling planning in the healthcare management chain? What are all those overpaid NHS managers doing all day, if not planning for peaks in demand, and ensuring that vital supplies are available?

And don't give me that knee-jerk "oh, the NHS is uniquely wonderful". No. Sorry, but it's not. It's a mediocre healthcare solution with mediocre outcomes. Heroic frontline staff, sure, but a sclerotic and 50-years-out-of-date centrally-planned structure that is more suited to producing Glorious Five-Year Tractor Production Plans and shuffling bits of paper around than actually providing responsive healthcare. Please point to any other country in Europe, or heck, the world, that has chosen to copy this "wonderful" service.

Rant over. I'm sorry if I have insulted any sacred cows. But I've been reading the coverage in the UK press for the last few weeks and it's just... bemusing.

[ClockworkOwl]

Re: Another thing...

Honestly, you want to have a go at people showing support for the NHS???

And what hate filled part of the country do you live in that you feel compelled to clap by shame???

I think the isolation is getting to a few on here, sure there's jingoistic bollox aplenty, but just CHEER UP!!!

Sorry for shouting :)

[Rol]

Re: Another thing...

I agree the NHS has many flaws, mostly brought on by underfunding, and insisting it runs at 99% capacity all year round, while using, what I can only guess is unquestioning co-operation, selfless devotion to duty and shear bloody-mindedness to step up to the challenge of running at 120% capacity during emergencies.

I think it was about five years ago, when an assessment of all the world's health services were carried out, and it found, out of all the first world nations, the UK's NHS delivered the biggest bang for the cheapest buck. And conversely the USA gave the least at the highest cost.

This outcome was surprising for most, here in the UK, but the reasoning behind it, pure economic sense - if in paying for health insurance you are also contributing to excessive profits and share-holder dividends through the numerous channels your funds go through before arriving at the hospital's bank account, you will find your contribution to be worth less than a half of its initial value.

The funding structure for the NHS, paid from central government to the regions, with very few profiteering hands in the honey jar, makes sense in a nation that believes health care needs to be accessible to all. And that's why we loathe any political party that tries to dismantle that system in favour of the American model, because they are clearly introducing inefficiencies into the system so they and their friends can make billions while providing a poorer service.

[The Dogs Meevonks]

Re: Another thing...

The NHS on the whole... when you look at the front line staff... IS a wonderful thing.

But... the govt has stripped it bare, underfunded it for a decade, forced it to cut services... thrown any one with any mental health issues on the scrap heap... and refused to help people with serious issues that stop them from leading a normal life... This last one I can confirm is true as I personally know some one who they simply refuse to help at all... who has been pushed to the brink of suicide and has been left behind, forgotten and ignored. To put it bluntly... they don't give a fuck and seem to want him to kill himself.

And this isn't something that's just happened... he's been driven to this over the last 3-4years. He wakes up every morning wishing he was dead and goes to sleep every night wondering why he never had the nerve to go through with it.

And I can't do a damn thing to help... because this fucking lockdown prevents me from socialising with him and making sure he's ok. All I can do is call and cross my fingers he's still alive.

But if he dies... it'll be the NHS who killed him... and they won't accept any responsibility for their failures and negligence... and it'll be the govt who are ultimately responsible for his murder.

But no one cares... and no one will ever be held accountable for what they've done.

But sure... let's give some wannabe failed model a 10 grand nose job on the NHS because she's got a little bump on her nose she doesn't like... and feels a little down... this person then goes on national TV boasting about how she basically conned the NHS into paying for it... But that money could have been better spent curing 3-4 people like my friend who is far more deserving and has been though far more soul destroying trauma than anyone I know... and still fights to survive every day, still tries to find the humour in the darkest of things.

So support those frontline staff who do the hard work... but fuck those in charge who treat the NHS like shit, who have stripped it bare and cost thousands of people their lives through their incompetence, greed and lust for power.

[Fred Dibnah]

Re: Another thing...

As you say, the NHS has been underfunded, stripped bare, and forced to cut services, by the government. Therefore it is the government who is ultimately to blame for your friend's sad situation.

[The Dogs Meevonks]

Re: Another thing...

I've tried everything I can over the last year... I've written to media outlets, I've contact his local MP (tory) and everyone has simply ignored it... No one is interested in helping people any more... and because he's been driven to this point. He's become a complete recluse, doesn't use social media at all and withdrawn from any all social interactions. I literally have to force myself into his life because every other person has abandoned him.

People don't want to help people who suffer from depression, the state of mental health services in this country is appalling. He's had appointments, his doctors, the mental health team are all 100% aware of his situation... and have done nothing in nearly 12 months. No referrals, no support and the so called funding team repeatedly refuse to fund the minor surgery he requires to give him a normal life... and refuse to tell him why.

This kind of things is utterly disgusting... and you can ultimately blame the govt for their underfunding... but you can also lay the blame squarely at the jobsworths who simply value peoples lives based on a spreadsheet... and they've judged that his life is worth £0.00

[hoola]

Re: Another thing...

They are also saddled with a load of funky PFI hospitals that are costing about 10 times what they are worth. There are so many clauses, sub-clauses and other bits of contract associated with these that it is very difficult for the NHS to extricate itself. It is not the fault of the NHAS, rather the inept politicians that heralded PFI as the new wonder fix for all public infrastructure. What PFI actually has turned out to be is an almost unlimited source of money for the private companies that are involved in the entire debacle.

It is not just the cost of the building but the ongoing maintenance that means what should could a modest amount to fix, also costs 10 times its worth.

It is not just the NHS but load of schools in the grand "Building Schools for the Future" programmed from 15 years ago.

[The Axe]

Re: Another thing...

@Anon in another country; didn't you know, the NHS is a religion now.

[SImon Hobson]

Re: Another thing...

What puzzles me is that the whole strategy of the UK appears to be geared towards protecting the NHS

That's only because, as others have pointed out, there are a lot of "not too bright" people around - who can't understand complicated concepts. The strategy is to contain the outbreak to the level where the NHS can cope* - because if it blows up past that, then the death rate will rise dramatically as those needing care cannot get it. Flattening the sombrero as our blond one put it.

So "protect the NHS" really means "don't be part of the problem that overwhelming the NHS would cause" - but that's not as catchy !

[martinusher]

Re: Another thing...

The clap thing is just the moden equivalent of the "two minutes hate" described in Orwell's "1984". Its a cumpulsory show of enthusiasm towards the goals of the state. (Its not an Orwell invention, either -- it furst surfaced during WW1.)

Protecting the NHS is probably the only goal the British people could unite behind. They've been left so cynical that by years of attacks on their collective psyche that anything else is likely to be met with derision by one segmet of society or another. As for why the NHS needs protecting, this is also a masterpiece of Orwellian logic. The NHS has the target of years of reforms designed to introduce market mechanisms to make it more efficient. (This appears to be primarily finding ways to close down large city center hospitals so that the facilites and land could be sold off to developers but there's also plenty of other ways for the private sector to feed off the carcass.) The UK market has been seen as a prime growth area by a least on large US health insurance company (we're eager to export the benefits of consumer choice in health provision that we enjoy in the US) and they've actually been advising government on this matter. Unfortuantely, despite successive governments' best efforts and the constant media barrage of negativity thats worked so well in the past to soften up the puiblic's attitude towards privatization the British public seem remarkably disinterested in giving up the NHS. (So just gently starve it of resources...plenty of time...)

[Peter2]

Re: Another thing...

The NHS has the target of years of reforms designed to introduce market mechanisms to make it more efficient. (This appears to be primarily finding ways to close down large city center hospitals so that the facilites and land could be sold off to developers but there's also plenty of other ways for the private sector to feed off the carcass.)

Alternately, it could be that the medical staff in the NHS recognise that hospitals that offer lots of random services don't specialise in any of them, and offer poorer outcomes in all of them. Their considered opinion was that the best thing to do is have local A&E centres for dealing with most general things, and then regional centers specialising in particular fields that can maintain higher numbers of specialists with better equipment to deliver better outcomes.

But then a bunch of political activists turn up, start whipping up people to scream "sAve tHe NHsS!!1!1!" and override what the experts say to score political points for their party by "saving" their local hospital.

The UK market has been seen as a prime growth area by a least on large US health insurance company (we're eager to export the benefits of consumer choice in health provision that we enjoy in the US)

Having worked for the NHS i'd just like to point out that it was established post WW2 as a billing structure to allow existing healthcare providers to treat anybody. It's not too far removed from that today and it has no problem with people billing it for work at agreed rates as long as the work is done to the agreed standard.

If US providers want to come over here, build their own hospital and offer paid for services then great; good luck to them. If they provide services at the NHS charge cost then they can do work for the NHS under contract in the same way that the existing providers do, eg BMI, BUPA, Nuffield Health, Spire, Ramsay etc etc etc. If you look up a list of private providers in the UK you might be surprised at the length.

However, as these providers don't have anywhere near enough privately paying work to keep their facilities in use at 100% capacity they do NHS work at the NHS billing rates to ensure that they can make enough money to keep going.

... So as you can see, private operations are still a win for the NHS as we get additional capacity without actually having to pay for additional facilities or staff.

I'm honestly perplexed as to why anybody who knows anything about UK healthcare would see them as a threat.

[RLWatkins]

Re: Another thing...

They've let their own version of the republican party take over their government. What do you expect?

[TeeCee]

Re: Another thing...

The Manchester Evening News...

...a population of fucking idiots...

I know that correlation is not causation, but still..

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

As numerous dictatorships have proved time and time again - there's no shortage of nasty vindictive sheep in the population who enjoy snitching on their neighbours for even the tiniest percieved slights.

[Dolvaran]

Re: Another thing...

It was ever thus.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

This is why we can't stand the clapping. We think they'd rather have PPE equipment instead so we donated. And peeking out the window as we do as it happens, we see only a couple of houses are still doing it. When the whole street, almost, was doing it, you could tell it was clearly done for "Need material for my Instagram page. Look at me". And then you have 2 new neighbors, who are stupid enough to think "When we come out and do this, we're allowed to make contact with next door and high 5 them. Because clapping means you're not infected". They've now gotten bored of the idea and no longer come out. I think they have enough material already for their Facebook page.

Would not surprise me if half those fuckers used to moan about the NHS before and will refuse to pay extra tax each month to fund the NHS after its all over.

Back to the actual story. Considering they were on a sub for 9 months, so we hope not infected and only doing it dockside. Whats the fucking problem. Just like higher management, the officer class, to piss over it all. Considering half that officer class have probably never been deployed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another thing...

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds that whole display of virtue signalling smugness nauseating. We all appreciate what medical staff are doing but standing outside clapping and blowing whistles achieves nothing other than making the people doing it feel good and holy about themselves. Then no doubt they go back inside to Netflix and think nothing more about medical staff until 7 days later.

[Chris G]

Re: Another thing...

In other times, the majority of those applauding will be the same people who complain about waiting two hours in A&E on a Monday morning to have a cut finger from the weekend's pursuits seen to.

[Anonymous Coward]

And another another thing

Nevil Shute...On the beach....just saying.....

[Korev]

Re: And another another thing

ACs can't have an icon, so I've got this one for you -->

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And another another thing

"ACs can't have an icon,"

Says who!?

[bombastic bob]

Re: And another another thing

yeah AC post can have any icon if you register, but then check the 'post anonymous' box when you post, which is useful if you want the "anonymous Guy Fawkes mask" icon that shows up for an unregistered AC

Worth pointing out, I purchased one of those masks on amazon recently. Some idiot in San Diego County *FELT* that after May 1 we all have to wear them (long after it might have actually mattered, I might add). Fine, I'll play along if it shuts them up and gets us all back to work faster. But I'll wear Guy Fawkes' face above my bandana... out of REBELLION!!! "I got yer mask, RIGHT HERE!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I think this is stupid, if they've all been at sea together for months then the chances of them catching covid-19 off each other is 0 so why not let them have a bit of fun before they rejoin the lock downed populace?

[ThatOne]

Be careful, you're using logic and might be fined!

But, acting as the devil's advocate once again, I guess the problem here is not any contamination risk, but simply that they disobeyed orders: The military is supposed to blindly obey orders. Logic and reasoning are not supposed to interfere.

[Trigonoceps occipitalis]

The military is supposed to blindly obey orders.

They tried that one on at Nuremberg and look where that got them.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: The military is supposed to blindly obey orders.

Interestingly that was the British Army rule upto just before D-Day

Then somebody realised it might give the hun a bit of an excuse and it as changed,

- listening to Al Murray and James Holland's excellent podcast. "We have ways of making you talk"

[tip pc]

There are orders

And there are Orders

[Fursty Ferret]

And there are h'orderves. H'orderves which will be obeyed at all times.

[Kane]

"And there are h'orderves. H'orderves which will be obeyed at all times."

Horses Doovers

[Soruk]

And there's the lady of the night who hangs around the diesel pumps - the Whore DERV.

[Strahd Ivarius]

Hors d'oeuvres?

[BazNav]

You can only obey orders if they are given

I don't have the full details but I suspect that the top brass never ordered the captain to not have the party because if that came out it could be really bad press too - "Admiral refuses to allow brave submarine crew out into the sunshine after 9 months at sea!!!!"

So they 'suggest' that the captain might not want the BBQ, that way all the risk is on the captain and they can either take the credit for allowing the captain to exercise common sense or blame him for ignoring the direction of a senior officer.

As Lt Col Phillip Smith would say "What is the first rule?" "Never order anyone to do anything if it might come back and bite you on the arse"

[Jimmy2Cows]

Enough with your sensible arguments and flawless reasoning. Understanding of facts and a common sense attitude is not permitted.

[Anonymous Coward]

After months at / under sea, standard procedure is to go to a pub ASAP. At least this is what I was told by a Frenchman in the pub who, as a child, wondered why his submariner father would be drunk after not seeing him for months. This take on things was immediately confirmed by a former RN submariner.

[ILLQO]

Technically incorrect, first order of business is a long shower. Followed by the greasiest food that you can possibly find. THEN you go to the PUB and attempt to repress the last few months of your life.

After you have erased the slew of terrible jokes, weird mindsets, and arguably psychotic personalities that you develop as a coping mechanism. Then you call your families.

[Steve 53]

For the purposes of the act, I think it's entirely reasonable to consider the sailers to be members of the same household, given they've been in a tin can for months as ordered.. Providing they're quarantined, frankly it's not an issue if they organise a mass orgy on the dockside, let alone have a BBQ...

We need to apply common sense and science...

[EvilDrSmith]

>We need to apply common sense and science...

Burn the heretic!

[Sammy Smalls]

What do you burn apart from heretics?

More heretics!

[Klimt's Beast Would]

My cat's got hairy ticks. I'm certainly not burning those off. Can't afford the carbon emissions permits...

[phuzz]

See, you're just not thinking military.

[Anonymous Coward]

>sailers to be members of the same household,

In the submarine service I believe the term "married couples" is more applicable

[Zarno]

They intentionally distance sub crews from any news that could "compromise" the mission.

It's also been said in a few articles that sub crews were explicitly not told about the pandemic.

Unless they were informed on the way back to port, it's a literal case of they didn't know at the time.

Hope nobody gets canned for it.

Getting shades of Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect with the house and bypass thing.

[TheRealRoland]

The RN needs to show Uncle Trump they have good control over their people, as to not create a similar situation as with the skipper of that US aircraft carrier. But by slapping it down in public, they created just that similar situation... What was that effect's name?

[RLWatkins]

Streisand.

[Mog_X]

At the very least, the captain would have been kept informed of the situation at home and it would have been up to him to tell the crew.

I thought they had to listen in to Radio 4 on long wave anyway - if it went off air they were allowed to nuke Russia.

In any case this is a daft reaction by the Admiralty, as they have been effectively all been members of the same household for months. It is no different than me having a BBQ in my garden with the wife & kids.

[Graham Dawson]

There's a fairly high chance the local plod will come around to harangue you for that.

[Jimmy2Cows]

Careful, they'll start threatening to patrol supermarkets for people buying sausages and burgers. Only to be shut down by a superior upon realising that made the force appear staffed by a bunch of control-freak fascist morons (again).

[Chris G]

Patrolling supermarkets

The Guardia Civil in Alicante were stopping people after shopping and fining them for having superfluous items that were not on the essential items list they had come up with.

Word got back to the Prez about it and he told them in no uncertain terms to stop being arses, if a shop is permitted to be open, then whatever it has in stock can be bought.

[Mark 65]

Re: Patrolling supermarkets

Proving that no matter where you are in the world the local plod are just power hungry control freaks.

[Wellyboot]

If Navy plod had turned up at the dockside, they would have been the only risk factor.

Icon: sign of a successful submarine voyage!

[Arty Effem]

So they should, it's unnecessary pollution.

[Stork]

They were not in a position to nuke anyone I think - they were in a nuclear powered attach submarine, which I think tend to be kitted out with conventional weapons.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is known that Soviets had nuclear torpedoes in the cold war, and also, unknown to the U.S., during the run up to the Cuban Missile Crisis. One of the torpedoes, the T-15, was designed to create a tsunami to cause havoc in coastal towns. The downside - it would crack the hull of every ship within a five mile radius. Essentially, a suicide weapon.

[TowedJumper]

Well, "tend to" and "unable to" are very different things. I don't know if they have anything like this on the boat right now, depends on the mission and the RN but I give you the...

BGM-109A Tomahawk Land Attack Missile – Nuclear (TLAM-N) with a W80 nuclear warhead.

Now, thats been retired on the US side and I presume the RN and would have nowhere near the reach to damage anything in Russia but I am just throwing it out there for coversation's sake.

[I ain't Spartacus]

The Royal Navy have Tomahawk. But not the nuclear version. We only acquired it after the US had retired the nuke version as part of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty. We withdrew all our tactical nukes about the same time, after the Cold War.

So far as I remember the UK has only ever deployed gravity nuclear bombs, nuclear artillery shells and the warheads for Polaris and then Trident. I don’t think we ever deployed tactical nuclear missiles or torpedoes.

Trump pulled out of the INF treaty last year, so they could have nuke Tomahawks again pretty easily. Or spend loadsa money on a new system.

[Julz]

The Avro Blue Steel was a operational ~1 megaton weapon and was a missile. There was also the Ikara missile/torpedo combo that were flung off ships that had a nuclear depth bomb option. I'm sure there were others. I particularly like the rainbow code for the Ikara, Blue Duck :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Many RN ships used to carry a nuclear depth charge - a simple device with a timer. Designed to be manually thrown over the side of the ship, in the event that the ship couldn't shake off a submarine.

[SkippyBing]

Definitely not designed to be dropped off the side of the ship! It was basically a modified version of the WE177 free fall bomb that could be carried by the ship's helicopter. In the case of the Wasp this involved removing the doors and aircrewman to get enough endurance to carry it far enough away that the ship wouldn't be damaged in the ensuing explosion. It was questionable if the helicopter could clear the drop zone fast enough not to be taken out by the above surface effects of the bomb. Although in the case of the Wasp it may well have been out of fuel by then anyway.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Always good to post on here, because you'll get corrected if you get it wrong. I'd completely forgotten about Blue Steel, basically assuming the V force hadn't had any stand-off capability, because Skybolt got cancelled.

[RPF]

We definitely also had nuclear depth charges.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lance.

[vtcodger]

Tomahawk missile range

BGM109 range was about 1500mi=2400km back in the 1980s. Doubt it's changed much. A bit iffy for London to Moscow (1540mi), but more than adequate for North Sea to much of Western Russia.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Tomahawk missile range

>A bit iffy for London to Moscow (1540mi),

Although it's well known that all British nuclear weapons were targeted on Slough

[PhilipN]

Radio 4 off the air?

Grounds to celebrate passing days pointlessly to The Archers and endless repeats. And the chance to get on instead with ..... hang on .... nothing would change, so scrub that.

[Dog Eatdog]

You can't hear The Archers on a sub

You can't pick up long wave underwater.

They have to use very low frequency to communicate with a sub underwater. And It's one way comms only. Shore-to-ship, and text only due to the limited bandwidth.

[Anonymous Coward]

Epic level of nominative determinism here

What are the chances of there being a Rear Admiral Submarines! And he's in charge of that branch of the Royal Navy too. That even beats Judge Judge.

What's that? It's his rank, not his name? Party pooper. That's appropriate I suppose...

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

I want to believe some navy family hoping for an illustrative career for their son named him, Rear Admiral Smith

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

... who went on to have a successful Army career. Currently Lt Col RAdm Smith.

[Danny 14]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

1st QLR signals detachment commander was captain kirk when i was RSO in the early nineties.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

Ah yes, and he had a tough time I imagine.

A colleague from not long ago had many tales from when he was part of a helpdesk team at HP. One of the frontline helldesk people took a call (it was out of hours for the captain's normal SPOC) from a Captain Kirk, and was able to deal with the problem the captain had with his IT. As was normal, the helldesk drone ended the call with "and if you have any more problems, please contact SPOC".

Well the captain erupted, assuming the helldesk drone was making fun of his name. My colleague said it took a while to calm him down and explain that no, it wasn't Mr Spock being referred to, but SPOC - as in his Single Point Of Contact.

[stiine]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

Are you trying best a Major Major Major?

Yes, that's a book in my pocket.

[keith_w]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

George Marshal didn't want to be Marshal Marshal

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

Not military, but one of my favourite cases of nominative determinism was the lawyer Sue Yoo.

[Strahd Ivarius]

Re: Epic level of nominative determinism here

Reminds me of Major Major M. Major, in Catch-22

(M. is for Major, of course)

[Anonymous Coward]

Same property?

Given that they all “live” at the same address it seems entirely reasonable. Can we no longer have barbecues in our own back yards for members of the same household?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Same property?

Enough time in quarantine and we'll be grilling up members of our households...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Same property?

Not here we won't. We had the foresight to start a rat farm on our ground floor.

[Graham Dawson]

Re: Same property?

I heard you could make it big if you got in on the ground floor, but I just don't want to take part in the same old rat race.

[KBeee]

Re: Same property?

I hope you keep their droppings. You could make a fortune from ratshit screwdrivers

[mr.K]

Re: Same property?

Well, I live alone now...

[Sanguma]

Re: Same property?

"Oh, I am a cook and a captain bold,

And the mate of the Nancy brig,

And a bo'sun tight, and a midshipmite,

And the crew of the captain's gig!"

[Cereberus]

Re: Same property?

<SARCASM> (shouted just to be safe)

But they left the confines of their backyard / garden / home for the last 9 months or so.

How dare they be so blase about the risk they have put themselves and the rest of the country under by being definitely free of the virus and in the open air near nobody else.

Don't they realise that they were putting nobody at risk including themselves and the public - such shameful behaviour should result in them all being keel hauled whilst the sub is at sea after being made to climb out a torpedo tube.

And what about future risk - they may get the virus and not realise then go back to sea and dock in a port in another country and spread the disease there - it's not like it is already a pandemic or anything.

Who do they think they are anyway - just because they finish a tour of duty they think they can then just relax and enjoy themselves - they should be protecting our country not resting from a long tour.

</SARCASM>

[TowedJumper]

Re: Same property?

Not sure how the Royal Navy does it but in the US when a ship returns from a patrol they usually have the friends and family there to greet them.

Longest patrol in UK history? Check

No welcome on return? Check

No family on return? Double check

Have the brass come down on your leadership because they tried to bring some life back into your face in some small way? Triple check

The RN leadership better get their $hit together because this is going to hit every other patrol boat and ship in their fleet faster than they can possibly comprehend. I can't imagine being stuck in a submarine, let alone on a patrol of that duration. Good Job submariners

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Same property?

"Good Job submariners"

And, by definition, Front Line Key Workers, so should be applauded, not censured for the self-isolation from friends and family and keeping they household party on the dockside. I mean, FFS, they've been isolated for 9 frikken months and many will be missing wives, children and family as it is without being confined further with nowhere to let of some steam.

[Sanguma]

Re: Same property?

nowhere to let of some steam.

Now seen escaping from their ears as they consider the likely IQ of Navy top brass ...

[Rol]

Re: Same property?

I do believe, the RN were only concerned, because of the inappropriateness of the party. As in enjoying themselves in 100% safety when most others couldn't.

Much like the family who live in a pub, who have the police turn up a couple of times a day, because neighbours and passers-by, are fuming that a family are having a whale of a time, drinking beer, playing pool and dancing to the juke box, in their own residence.

Please, can someone in China discover a deadly virus that only those with the misery gene have no immunity to, and then infect Paris Hilton for maximum coverage.

[Dwarf]

If they are saying that they are not "all at the same address", then how will the do the social distancing thing when they get back onboard the sub - the corridors are narrow and space is very limited.

They protect the country, let them have a bit of relaxation when they are above the surface and perhaps those that want to try and criminalise everything should just go and get a life.

[Jimmy2Cows]

Re: those that want to try and criminalise everything should just go and get a life

These and other impossible tasks brought to you by the Ministry of Fun.

[Korev]

Mr Page

I wonder what this Fine Organ's former defence correspondent would have made of this

[Nunyabiznes]

Optics

It isn't that anything was wrong - it just didn't look good from the uninformed viewers standpoint. Which embarrassed someone higher ranking - and that is why there are hot coals in the future for the skipper. And that is a damn shame.

[Wellyboot]

Re: Optics

No good will come from pandering to the uninformed.

[EvilDrSmith]

Re: Optics

As opposed to pandering to the uniformed?

[Mike 16]

Re: Optics

-- No good will come from pandering to the uninformed. --

Pandering to the uniformed is a time-honored path to a cushy gig as President /Emperor for Life. Until someone notices the loophole in the retirement plan.

Or did you mean "No good will come to the _rest_ of the population"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Optics

"It isn't that anything was wrong - it just didn't look good from the uninformed viewers standpoint. Which embarrassed someone higher ranking - and that is why there are hot coals in the future for the skipper. And that is a damn shame."

Agree. It seems quite likely the crew had been promised the party some time ago and were looking forward to it (maybe it's a tradition?), so cancelling it would be extremely bad for morale. I think the captain made the right decision and I hope the enquiry see it too.

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Optics

so cancelling it would be extremely bad for morale.

I'd say it will be extremely bad for retention of trained sailors as well, this is the stuff that makes them reconsider reenlistment and opt for s shore side job (or early retirement). On the other hand, it will give Crapita another chance at gouging the MoD.

[TowedJumper]

Re: Optics

So inform them. Anything short of an orgy on the dockside for a crew deployed that long should be tolerated. You don't come down on your team because they are unwinding from a successful mission and returning to a world of chaos. Bad leadership right there and a good way to lose not only the trust of this boat but every other boat that hears about it.

[gnasher729]

Re: Optics

Why should an orgy on the dockside not be tolerated?

[Wellyboot]

Re: Optics

Because it would cause job losses in that very old business operating just outside the dock gates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Optics

Why should an orgy on the dockside not be tolerated?

Because the only thing that's supposed to be full of seamen is the submarine...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Optics

Statistically most of the people aboard the submarine will be straight men, so in order to have a satisfactory orgy it would mean bringing some women in from the outside who might be exposed to the virus :)

[Denarius]

Re: Optics

RE Gekke.*

correct. In Oz after AIDs pandemic built up and mandatory testing began it was found the Navy had the lowest infection rate.

[Peter2]

Re: Optics

Traditionally, an orgy on the ship was accepted at the end of a commission for a couple of days after the ship got back to port.

[Peter2]

Re: Optics

For the information of the downvoter, this was the "old navy" during the American revolutionary war and Napoleonic wars. If crews were allowed to leave the ship then in certain ships there would have been significant desertion.

Hence, crews were not allowed to leave ship, but "wives" were allowed to come aboard. You could self certify as a "wife", and ladies of "negotiable virtue" (aka prostitutes) did so as a matter of course. (ever heard the nautical saying, "a wife in each port"...?)

The officers policed the situation by for the most part leaving the ship or staying in their cabins/the wardroom for the duration. The Georgian attitude towards this sort of thing was quite different to the moralising Victorian attitudes.

[Claverhouse]

Bloody puritans... They glut on misery.

[johannbetz]

Don't spread out on the shore side, back to your tin can - you all sardines

So, after being packed like sardines in a tin can for a month they try to spread out little on the shoreside the are scolded for spreading out a little and ordered back to their tin can? It's military so it all makes perfect sense.

[TowedJumper]

Lost the opportunity for that one

Longest patrol in history? Good job lads!

---good so far---

Now get the f%$k back in the boat.

---annnnnd you lost your chance at bolstering morale---

[wjake]

Re: Lost the opportunity for that one

"Longest patrol in history? Good job lads!"

Not this cruise. Longest patrol in RN history was completed in 2013, by this boat, but completely different crew and Captain. Nice bit of history, but doesn't apply here.

[Anonymous Coward]

After seeing the picture at the head of the article, I think the captain should be given the Boot.

[Milo Tsukroff]

The captain should be given Das Boot. FTFY

[Nifty]

Don't you mean the po faced brass should've been given das Boot?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the real cause for disciplinary action....

Is that the brass weren't invited to join the fun!

[Prst. V.Jeltz]

Re: I think the real cause for disciplinary action....

nobody outside was ,thats the point

[Mintyboy]

Please note "UK red top The Sun" read toilet paper / firelighter / chip wrapper not worth the paper it is printed on.

[the Jim bloke]

point of order

Use as chip wrapper BEFORE using as toilet paper, not after.

Also, usage as fire lighter prior to toilet paper usage may possibly result in (extremely) personal injury.

[Chris G]

During the recent TP shortage I am sure the sun achieved it's highest value ever.

[Wyrdness]

The only problem with using the Sun as toilet paper is that the shit might rub off onto you.

[Piro]

Utterly senseless

They've effectively lived together in isolation for months. Logic and basic common sense dictates that this was fine. Apparently logic and basic common sense are dead these days.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Utterly senseless

Exactly, I don't see the issue here. They were effectively in quarantine all this time so there's no chance they'll make each other sick. As long as there's nobody at the party who wasn't at the ship, this is perfectly safe.

[gnasher729]

Common sense would be that they stay at a generous distance (considerably more than 2 meters) from anyone outside the ship, desinfect anything they take on board, and meanwhile come as close to each other as they like. And then leave all together.

You don’t get the virus by being close to others. You get it by being close to others that are infected. And you have a good chance of catching it from people who don’t care about getting close to others.

[Jason Hindle]

When I see the people paid to protect us behaving like this.

It doesn’t exactly make me feel any safer. To be clear, I’m not referring to the Captain of HMS Trenchant or any member of his crew.

[Jaspa]

Heres a novel idea ...

Don't get me wrong, I, like most right minded individuals have a healthy respect for the NHS. Have raised a small number of thousands for the local KId's Hospital and continue to support their cause.

However, these "covidiots" (is that (c) yet?) clapping on their doorsteps and posting their shenanigans on Farcebook in the sadly prevalent "look at me, aren't I good" style really rankles. How many of these idiots will do anything other than rock up at A&E and complain about wait times after this is over, conveniently forgetting recent events.

Lock them up in a tin can for months on end, patrolling the high seas, no Zoom or Farcebook (other vendors are available.) Probably infrequent and censored comms back home if they're lucky. Hop out of said tin can for a respectfully distanced and well earned chill and get shot down in flames by their Brass.

Just as an experiment, populate the subs with the Twitterati and Farcebook briandead. Send them out to sea for months and when they get back ignore them.

Harsh but I'd pay to see that outcome.

Big up our NHS but don't forget all the other Services quietly doing their job. Perhaps Her Maj can step in and send a few hampers to "Her" returning Forces?

Anything with the Royal Warrant as she'll get clubcard points and discount.

And don't start me off with the newly empowered police "force" travelling in twos with no PPE in sight.

Rant over :)

[davidp231]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Just as an experiment, populate the subs with the Twitterati and Farcebook briandead. Send them out to sea for months and when they get back ignore them.

Just as an experiment, populate the subs with the Twitterati and Farcebook briandead. Send them out to sea for months and ignore them.

Fixed it for you.

[Jaspa]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Too kind Sir.

[khjohansen]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Also, submarines are expensive

[Jaspa]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Expensive I grant you but a sound investment.

Think of all the social security we taxpayers won't have to fork out for :)

Plus the interwebs will be freed up for proper traffic, like , er ....

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Just as an experiment, populate the subs with the Twitterati and Farcebook briandead. Send them out to sea for months and ignore them and fire them out through the torpedo and missile tubes. A practice drill and morale boosting exercise for the crew in one.

For even more moral boosting effect, add the brass who didn't get this, and the entire cabinet + Boris + advisors for opportunities lost during this crisis.

icon: A few crates of beer for the crew

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

(other vendors are will also be unavailable.)

FTFY ;)

[Dave 15]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

The best thing we could do with the police is disband them... chasing around whooping because they catch someone doing 100mph in a car that in Germany would be doing 120 or 130mph quite safely on their roads. They are never to be seen sorting out speeding outside schools, on village high streets or housing estates because that doesnt give them an excuse to go joy riding in souped up cars.

Then moaning about people going out and getting exercise if they are doing so at an isolated piece of countryside instead of a crowded city street.

As to the top brass of the navy in this instant... its a pity we arent at war and cant line them up and shoot them. I wonder just how many Admirals are moaning about the 1 boat left in the Navy?

[hoola]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Perhaps, then you have not seen, first hand the consequences of single car, high speed crashes.

Unfortunately I have and they tie up huge amounts of resources in the subsequent investigation, particularly as the driver are frequently killed or seriously injured.

Add into that some innocent bystander who is wiped out because of the idiot driving at excessive speed and it is not something to be ignored.

Speed and irresponsible driving kills! The attitude that Police should be sorting other crimes out and not stopping selfish idiots driving like this makes me assume that you are one of the many people who drive irresponsibly and see the Road Traffic Act as a mere inconvenience.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Heres a novel idea ...

Probably infrequent and censored comms back home if they're lucky.

Indeed, if they are lucky.

Dunno about the Trafalgar class, but only recently had an interesting viewpoint from someone who served on the Vanguard class - and described comms for that. Once the hatches closed, that was it - no comms back to family, at all. Comms from family was little more than one tweets worth per week - and that would be checked by senior crew first - for example, if aunt Mable was on her death bed, that news would not be given to the crew member, there's nothing he could do about it anyway other than suffer mentally during the mission if he knew.

No comms from the submarine at all between leaving dock and getting back - the whole point is for the enemy to not know where it is, and transmitting would immediately give away it's location. That's doubly so of the Trident subs.

[[e-mail]]

This is 'The Sun' we're talking about here.

Given their sales are going down faster than an Astute on a crash-dive, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the Stun asked the Navy for a comment and got something like "Here's a comment for you, "Foxtrot Oscar and leave our swabbies alone"." And the Stun, with their normal journalistic accuracy and love for the armed forces, somehow misheard this as "senior officers are most displeased" and reported according to their normal standards...

[Klimt's Beast Would]

Soooo...

what will they do with the drunken sailors?*

I guess we'll find out, H&S guidlines followed to a 'T'!

If Russia has any spare Typhoon class submarines, maybe they could do a ports tour and also allow barbecues onboard. There's plenty of space after all even with 2m SocDic rulz.

*Answers (shrimps) on a postcard please to No.10 Cat:

https://twitter.com/Number10cat

[The Oncoming Scorn]

The Navy Lark

At least it wasn't the HMS Troutbridge.

Frankly amazed nobody has made this reference.

[Anonymous Cowerd]

I couldn't care less about them having a party, but filming in HMNB is a strict no-no.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Big Lizzie

"The navy had initially planned for it to sail without any of the crew being tested beforehand."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-52400146

They might as well have planned a slow sail from Portsmouth to the docklands to tie up near the Nightingale Hospital at the Excel, that is unless the whole crew were already quarantined

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know what all the fuss is about. They've been cooked up on that shop for months. Not been able to get off it when it's in dock. They've self isolated from the rest of us. Good on them for enjoying themselves on there day off, they deserve it. My daughter is in the royal navy and I know how strict they are. Hope nobody gets in trouble, we are going through enough misery as it is. Good luck captain xx

[Dave 15]

Give him a medal

Give the Captain a medal for not being stupid. 9 months in the tin can means they have not been in contact with the virus. They were having a party together. The reporter was stupid not to have pointed this out and the top brass even more stupid for bothering their collective little brains. Clearly the situation was safe, very safe, more safe than going home to wives and sweethearts who may have been in contact.

There is no need to be stupid, its not compulsory even at higher levels of authority, though it does seem that the ability to think, decide and be sensible diminishes sharply

[Wyrdness]

IT Angle

So what's the IT angle?

Oh, it's Das Bootnotes

As per icon, I'll get my coat....

[Neoc]

I don't get it. Technically, the submarine crew is covered by "members of the same household" rules. So long as they didn't invite any outsiders, they were still obeying the Social Distancing guidelines.

[springerjd]

Not Again

I hope the RN doesn't pull a USS Roosevelt, the black eye has not healed from the HMS Queen Elizabeth debacle.

[CodeBlaster]

Overlords

Well I for one welcome our new authoriarian overlords, I'd like to remind them that as a trusted Register contributor that I could be helpful in reporting on all of those observed flouting the clearly thought out government lockdown rules.

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see anything wrong here

I really do.

How could all those people who have lived at cms to each other for months, have propagated the darn thing by this BBQ ??

Either they are ALL contaminated, or NONE are, and either way, they didn't do any harm.

Therefore, why sanctions ?

[Chairman of the Bored]

Re: I fail to see anything wrong here

Why sanctions? Whomever tried to send all the Puritans to the Americas back in the day didn't do a proper job.

[Mark192]

He's been 'assigned another role'.

He's been 'assigned another role'. Presumably not as cool a role as captaining a sub :-/

"Naval sources told the BBC that Cdr Lewis had been advised both by his senior officers on shore and some of his own officers on the submarine not to go ahead with the party.

A senior defence source said it was one of a number of instances that had undermined trust and credibility in his command.

Cdr Lewis will remain in the Royal Navy but will be assigned another role."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52464885