Email blackmail brouhaha tears UKIP apart as High Court refuses computer seizure attempt

The UK Independence Party (UKIP) has suffered a data breach after allegedly having 143 party email accounts accessed amid demands made by blackmailers, the High Court in London has been told (PDF). UKIP is suing former party leader Richard Braine, former deputy leader Tony Sharp and former General Secretary and one-time party …

[BebopWeBop]

From a UK point of view, I have to admit I find this hilarious - no doubt the Brexit party (with fringe elements from the Tories) will be dragged into the ongoing mess. What a joke state our politics are in. One only needs a major opposing party to behave like blind fools and the party in power to lie and be able to do so without blushing - continuously to make a full house. Oh wait a second......

[Warm Braw]

What a joke state our politics are in

The only conclusion you can draw about politics from recent observation is that the biggest vote goes to the biggest clown. It's not going to get better if we keep encouraging them.

[Natalie Gritpants Jr]

The conclusion I draw is that this is where the Brexit party will be very soon, followed by Labour unless by some miracle they elect a moderate leader.

[Tom 7]

And somehow buy 3/4 of the MSM to prevent them printing any lie made up about them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure...it was the MSM that caused Labours vote to drop 6%-12% across the country and not what MPs and campaigners are being told on the doorstep.

Believe in conspiracies and reap the rewards of a disenfranchised political party consisting of zealots (believe us - we are good and the others are bad), racists (we are not racist we just want to wipe out the Jews and Israel BUT the other lot are like Hitler and the Nazis) and yesterdays men (because woman in the Labour leadership are largely token).

[Claverhouse]

Moderate = Non-Socialist Labour.

[NeilPost]

You can be moderate whilst remaining socialist.

Suggesting Jess Phillips and Kier Starmer ticket

..... as opposed to (posh sounding) Momentum continuity candidate Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angry Angela Rayner..

[MyffyW]

OK, I will accept Becky sounds like the school swot, largely because she actually has done her homework, but leave our Ang alone.

Jess would make a great leader. Kier too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Becky doesn't sound like the school swot - she sounds like a religious zealot. I'll agree with you on Ang.

Jess is Diane Abbott without the multicultural appeal - great local MPs but offers nothing in leadership or at a national level and unable to discuss policies with journalists that require her to go off a very tight script.

And Kier...win back support of Brexit supporting Labour voters and Momentum supports by going for a copy of Blair with a less likeable personality.

Plus Kier and Lady Nugee would be the perfect pairing to win back Labour working class heartlands by highlighting that the Tories are the party for the rich establishment....

[AlbertH]

The Dream Ticket?

Rebecca Wrong-Daily is a gift to the humorists. The Tories really want her to replace Korbyn - she would be instrumental in ensuring that the Labour Party are so irrelevant that they won't ever gain power again.

Keir Starmer hasn't a hope (or a clue). He's insufficiently left for Momentum, and doesn't have the support of the Trades Unions.

[LucreLout]

Re: The Dream Ticket?

Keir Starmer was utterly hopeless at the CPS.

Lady Nugee somehow doesn't have working class appeal, not any appeal really as we all know what she thinks of the working class English ("Awful", see tweet).

Becky Bailey is just continuity Corbyn with less historic support for terrorism and communism.

Jess Phillips is way more opinionated than talented, but probably the least worst of a cretinous bunch.

Angry Angela has all the appeal of a baked turd sandwich.

So who is left? There aren't any leaders left in Labour, which is why they had nobody to stand up to Corbyn and his rampant antisemitism. Coming down the tracks early next year will be the finding by the equalities commission that the party is institutionally racist, which will ruin the tenure of any Corbynites well before the next election.

The simple fact is that the quickest way to get the Conservatives out of government would be an orderly closure of the labour party, allowing new opposition to emerge that isn't in hock to the public sector unions, and which can make a break from the economic illiteracy of their past.

[Jedit]

"Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

Phillips may not have been born posh, but she's the child of two HENRYs [1] and she absolutely aspires to poshness. She's best friends with Jacob Rees-Mogg, for God's sake. She's one of those melty types who only joined the Labour Party because the Tories wouldn't have her.

Also she's a massive TERF.

[1] High Earner, Not Rich Yet. Basically someone who has a six figure salary but feels hard done by because they're not a multi-millionaire.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

Jess Phillips is certainly a unpleasant sexist biggot. The idea that she is a serious leadership candidate is depressing. The video of her laughing at male sucides and homelessness was shocking and disgusting.

I am not sure the labour party can recover.

[Rich 11]

Re: "Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

Jess Phillips is certainly a unpleasant sexist biggot.

She's nothing of the sort. Do you have anything to back up your claim?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

Laughing about male suicide would probably be a starting point when it was raised in the commons.

[MyffyW]

Re: "Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

@AC - I'm sure you have some independent evidence, do share.

[Rich 11]

Re: "Suggesting Jess Phillips ... as opposed to (posh sounding) Rebecca Long-Bailey"

She wasn't laughing about male suicide, she laughed at the claim that men don't have any opportunities to raise male issues in Parliament. You've been watching too many alt-right video edits.

[codejunky]

@NeilPost

"You can be moderate whilst remaining socialist."

I dont know how that can at all be possible. Socialism is an extreme, one that has failed every attempt. It has never been demonstrated to work on a country level for an entire century of trying to make it work.

If a 100% failure rate for an ideology is extreme and not possibly moderate.

[Rich 11]

Re: @NeilPost

You clearly have a very limited knowledge of socialism. I expect you equate it with Soviet-style communism.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Rich 11

"You clearly have a very limited knowledge of socialism"

You may need to point toward a mistake. We all have limits to our knowledge so go on.

"I expect you equate it with Soviet-style communism."

Aka socialism, yes. And Maoism for China. Venezuela and the rest. Socialist principals applied to countries and crashing them hard. Not a single success. Of all the attempted variations the most successful has been N.Korea.

[Mark Dempster]

Re: @NeilPost

No, you're doing it again. Communism & Socialism are very different things. There are lots of official definitions out there, but they essentially boil down to:

Communism : The state owns everything & provides you with the basics required to survive.

Socialism : The state provides basic services that we all use, & ensures that everyone leads a decent quality of life, while the private sector competes for the other things we might want.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Mark Dempster

"Communism & Socialism are very different things"

Only if you consider socialism the theory and communism an implementation (which it was). Praised as the socialist paradise and rejected as not socialism after it failed.

"Communism : The state owns everything & provides you with the basics required to survive."

That is the result yes, and also the outcome of almost all of the experiments to implement socialism. It seems to be the outcome even if it is not the desired hope of the theory.

"Socialism : The state provides basic services that we all use, & ensures that everyone leads a decent quality of life, while the private sector competes for the other things we might want."

Definition of socialism (very quick and lazy google search)- a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[graeme leggett]

Re: @NeilPost

"means of production, distribution, and exchange should be... regulated" - that's what governments as elected by the people do, don't they?

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@graeme leggett

No. For the most part unregulated. This is where socialism starts to run into economic problems as production, distribution and exchange needs to be determined by market forces. Socialism applied at government level runs into problems of over controlling something which they can never have enough information to understand or regulate.

Granted it is something governments tend toward- increased control, but that isnt a good thing. Basically a government is supposed to facilitate the few things that open market cant achieve and to enforce the basic rules of dont lie, cheat or kill your customers. Everything else is just icing (and govs that cant achieve those few also have economic problems).

[Cav]

Re: @NeilPost

And yet it is rampant, unchecked American style capitalism that has crashed the global economy on numerous occasions.

An amalgam of capitalism and socialism provides the best outcomes for the most people. Both are necessary.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Cav

"And yet it is rampant, unchecked American style capitalism that has crashed the global economy on numerous occasions."

Market corrections. Business cycle adjustments which have seen the general prosperity of capitalist countries generally trend upward while socialism has consistently dragged down economies. No contest.

"An amalgam of capitalism and socialism provides the best outcomes for the most people. Both are necessary."

As the definitions are different I am not sure how the two merge. Capitalism with welfare is entirely acceptable while socialism without central planning hasnt really been achieved for a sustained period of time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: @NeilPost

Readers unfamiliar with the USian quantum (two conflicting things at once) definition of socialism might want to read about TARP. E.g. start at (but do not rely soley on)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

So basically the US Government, which is supposedly a believer in capitalism, intervened to rescue not only a collapsed financial system, but a collapsed auto industry. Sounds more like corporate cronyism to me, but then what do I know.

I do know that socialism for the US corporate kleptocrats is OK, apparently, so long as the money comes *to* them rather than flowing in the opposite direction.

Matters don't seem to have improved since. How many times have Trump companies been unable to pay their bills to they extent that they've declared bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: @NeilPost

You won't win the argument on here, El Reg is full of lefties, some of whom don't even realise they are lefties.

Most will have hurt feelings with what you are posting, those horrid, horrid facts.

[Spanners]

Re: @NeilPost

El Reg is full of lefties

From a US point of view perhaps but most of the rest of us don't think that their views of what is left and right are particularly meaningful. After all, they defined a centre-right politician called Barack Obama as a dangerous far left crazy

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Spanners

"After all, they defined a centre-right politician called Barack Obama as a dangerous far left crazy"

Centre right?? Left wing- yeah. Left of centre- maybe. Right or centre right- in what universe?

[AlbertH]

Re: @NeilPost

Socialism has always failed, and the Socialists always claim it's because the country was not Socialist enough!

I lived through the 3-day working week, rolling power cuts, rubbish piling up in the streets and virtually every council and industrial worker out on strike back in the 70s. This was the result of being insufficiently Socialist, apparently.

The Left always blame Thatcher for "closing down the mines" - she didn't. The previous LABOUR government closed almost three times as many as she did! The 1970s UK was an incredibly depressing place to live. We were all broke - taxed at insanely high rates. 1979 brought a government with some sense. It took almost 6 years to sort things out, but we headed towards virtually full employment, and one of the highest standards of living in the world.....

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: @NeilPost

"but we headed towards virtually full employment, and one of the highest standards of living in the world'

Really? You can't have been to many places then.

P.S: Most nations have plenty of tax financed services. Doesn't make them socialist. No more than the NHS makes UK socialist.

[GruntyMcPugh]

Re: @NeilPost

@Alberth: "It took almost 6 years to sort things out"

Odd, I remember riots. I remember my mum tearing a copper a new a-hole for pulling our car over on the A1, because the fuzz clearly thought we were flying pickets.

Meanwhile, this story has an interesting graph, showing unemployment rising in the six years after Thatcher was elected, not 'virtually full employment'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45181079

Now, on mine closures: "Between 1947 and 1994, some 950 mines were closed by UK governments. Clement Attlee’s Labour government closed 101 pits from 1947-‘51, Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits from 1957-‘63, Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964-1977 and Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970-’74, Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979-'90.[24]" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom)

Add those up, and that gives the Conservative Governments a small lead in pit closures, not the 'three times' claim, unless you are being disingenuous and only counting Thatcher as PM, but combining the closures under all LABOUR (sic) PMs.

I think your rose tinted spectacles are obfuscating the historical facts of the age.

[Mark Dempster]

Re: @NeilPost

I think you'll find that most of the scandinavian countries (you know, the ones with the highest happiness index in the world) have democratic socialist governments of the type that labour represent.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Mark Dempster

"I think you'll find that most of the scandinavian countries (you know, the ones with the highest happiness index in the world) have democratic socialist governments of the type that labour represent."

Labour as in Corbyns labour here in the UK?

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: @NeilPost

I suspect that's he said labour, not Labour :-)

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@John Brown (no body)

This is why I asked the question. No point torching the belief if it turns out that wasnt what he meant.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: @NeilPost

Mark Dempster,

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not as up on my political theory as I should be - but:

The Scandinavians are Social Democrats. What Labour has been for most of its history and they practise a mixed free market economy with the government doing some things. But not "the workers owning the means of production" - even though that was in Clause IV of the Labour constitution.

Whereas Democratic Socialism is the workers owning the means of production, through cooperatives or the government with lots of Trade Union power (Tony Benn would called it trade union democracy or soemthing I think) - and so involves lots of nationalisation and workers' representatives getting seats on the board - and lots of government intervention into the market.

Social Democracy in Scandinavia means quite to very economically liberal with high welfare payments and high taxes. That might have been what New Labour would have gone for, if they thought they could have got the tax rises past the electorate - but maybe move towards it slowly.

Corbyn though is a Bennite, as he was friends with Tony Benn and was on his leadership campaign team - and I understand is more of a democratic socialist.

This is not just People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front - this is just what happens when you allow political philosophers to define their terms too similarly.

[Dr_N]

Re: @NeilPost

Education and healthcare for people who can't afford it? That's the real disgusting ideology. The sooner it is brought to an end the better.

The only true ideology proven to work is to be an amoral, lying, mysoginist douchebag who pisses on poor people and hates the young and those foreigner folks. That is now the proven winning transatlantic political philosophy.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@Dr_N

"Education and healthcare for people who can't afford it? That's the real disgusting ideology. The sooner it is brought to an end the better."

Why? Or are you mistaking and thinking that is the outcome of capitalism instead of socialism?

"The only true ideology proven to work is to be an amoral, lying, mysoginist douchebag who pisses on poor people and hates the young and those foreigner folks. That is now the proven winning transatlantic political philosophy."

Not quite sure who your directing that at as various politicians have those traits worldwide regardless of ideology.

[paulc]

Re: @NeilPost

it was sarcasm... just not with an /s tag.

[codejunky]

Re: @NeilPost

@paulc

"it was sarcasm... just not with an /s tag."

I would hope so but unfortunately Dr_N is my troll. Trying to distinguish his humour and trolling isnt easy.

[LionelB]

Re: @NeilPost

@codejunky

"Trying to distinguish his humour and trolling isnt easy."

Arr, you'll not be from around these parts then?

[Mark Dempster]

Jess Phillips represents her constituents well, but politically would be more at home with the tories. And Rayner isn't really socialist, more centre-left. Starmer's socialist credentials are quite reasonable, although he did back the original coup against Corbyn & sided with Owen Smith in the subsequent leadership election. However he is pragmatic & worked well with Corbyn afterwards.

[Rich 11]

but politically would be more at home with the tories

I was at an event a few months ago where she was being interviewed. She didn't have many kind words to say about the Tories.

[I ain't Spartacus]

I suspect Mark Dempster might be on the left of the Labour party - and so is of the opinion that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were actually Conservatives - despite the policies their government enacted.

Somebody on this thread (I think) made a similar comment about Alan Johnson, who was one of the people a few years ago trying to get the "Blue Labour" movement going - which was trying to suggest to the party that if they went too left (either economically or socially) then they risked losing their Northern heartlands - which were more working class than the party activists, more socially conservative and more likely to want more spending on healthcare and schools rather than more nationalisations.

I rather feel that this election has proven him right. But that's no reason not to call him red Tory scum anyway...

I'm not into Labour politics enough to know where Jess Phillips stands on that spectrum. I've always rather liked the way she says what she thinks - though I'm not sure it's the right trait for a party leader. But then she might be perfectly capable of a bit of discipline if required.

I do suspect the way to go for Labour is to pick someone who can look sensible, statesmanlike and considered in comparison to Boris Johnson's shoot from the hip style. It needs to be someone with a few more brain cells than Corbyn, capable of making an argument and some message discipline. In fact discipline full-stop. Agreeing policy with the shadow cabinet and party, and not then changing it on the hoof to what you preferred all along - remember the Trident subs with no missiles followed by the I'd never use them anyway stuff after Corbyn had lost to the membership and unions?

Also someone who can talk about the problems of Britain and how to solve them without telling us we live in a dystopian hellhole and that anyone who even vaguely disagrees with them is basically evil, stupid or both. And can make their supporters stop doing it too. This can quickly make Labour look much more electable and, to be frank, normal. And being grown-up about politics will I suspect make Johnson look shallow and un-serious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Clive Lewis?

I'm not sure he'll be taken seriously this time, but I've thought for a while that if Clive Lewis can get enough "fair and balanced" coverage (what are the odds) he might be someone to watch.

Bradford University and Sandhurst (no Oxbridge, no PPE) so that's a good start. Sandhurst: forces background which again is unusual for a Labour MP.

East Anglian constituency, which is an interesting place to be for a Labour MP.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25356/clive_lewis/norwich_south

[KBeee]

Re: Clive Lewis?

And he wrote all those Narnia books too!

[Anonymous Coward]

They won't elect a moderate leader, they'll double down then wonder why they are out of politics for the next 10 years.

Truth is online forums like el'reg are generally left leaning, but the UK as a whole is very centrist. Win that, you win power. Blair showed that, Boris for all his bumbling knew that, Corbyn and momentum still don't get it. The majority sit in the centre, you can lean a little one way or the other but if you lean too far to the left or right, you are ******.

and before anyone says it - no Boris isn't far right, he's right but he's no extremist (other than an extreme buffoon at times).

[Spanners]

...but the UK as a whole is very centrist. Win that, you win power.

That wasn't how people voted. Or are you going to blame that on FPTP?

[Anonymous Coward]

"That wasn't how people voted. Or are you going to blame that on FPTP?"

Are you sure? The LibDems and Tories were the two parties closest to the centre and saw significant swings from Labour to

them

While the media portrayed the Tories as right wing/far right, it wasn't reflected in their policies around investment in state services and commitment to mainstream by OECD standards taxation and borrowing.

The LibDems appear to have done well on the back of Brexit, but I suspect tactical voting (based on swing from LibDems to Labour) and Jo Swinson's insistence on discussing Brexit in depth when the country was sick of it, a residential campaign ala Theresa May in 2017 and always saying "sorry" cost them more success.

[Alan Brown]

"no Boris isn't far right, he's right but he's no extremist"

What Boris _is_, is a self-centred Chaos Monkey who's spent the laet 30-odd years spreading lies and fabrications deliberately aimed at stirring up trouble so he can sit back with a bag of popcorn to watch the results. He's openly boasted about doing so on a number of occasions.

He's also a vindictive fucker if anyone gets close to making him accountable for his actions.

[Spanners]

RE: Email blackmail brouhaha tears UKIP apart as High Court refuses computer seizure attempt

...moderate leader...

Why does theLlabour party need one of those? It has never hurt the Conservatives to have a far from moderate one. In fact, since the 1980's, the more moderate the leader, the less they like to remember them.

[Anonymous Coward]

>The only conclusion you can draw about politics from recent observation is that the biggest vote goes to the biggest clown. It's not going to get better if we keep encouraging them.

It's all the fault of social media I tell ya, we get the politicians we deserve. Speaking of which how is Cleggers going on at Foolbook ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"how is Cleggers going on at Foolbook ?"

If I was facebook I'd be worried that he was about to form a coalition with the regulators...

[Anonymous Coward]

What a joke state our politics are in

From across the pond, I can only agree with you. Unfortunately, it is a supremely unfunny joke.

[NeilPost]

I’d think Pennywise would be a far more suitable PM than our current clown.

[Kane]

They all float, down here

[WolfFan]

The problem with British politics is that Her Maj has far too little power. What needs to be done is that HM should keep a pride of lions at one of her larger estates and feed noxious politicians to them. She should also keep all those Corgis and use them to get rid of the most noxious; the Corgis, being smaller, would take longer and hurt the politicians more. After the first few got eaten, preferably on the grounds of Buck House, there should be an improvement in the behavior of the others. If not, Corgi chow for the next year or two.

[BebopWeBop]

A public vote - say in the form of a popular TV show might be vote winner.

[Anonymous Coward]

Political Reality TV

How about "Celebrity Kamikaze"?

You get a dozen politicians / celebrities / B-Arkers and, over a period of time, train them to fly a light aircraft. Each week someone gets voted off.

At the end, the survivor (so far) has to fly the plane - and here's the good bit - into a boat with the others all on board.

For the IT angle, I'm sure sharks (with fricking lasers) could be involved somehow

Seems of a suitable level for Channel 5

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Political Reality TV

I think "I'm A Politician, Get Me Out Of Here" might make for good viewing figures. Of course, the tasks would need to be more dangerous, possibly deadly. Any survivors who get voted out would cross the bridge, heading for the interview when...the bridge opens to drop then into the piranha pool.

[NeilPost]

Special note for the Magesterium building on the site of Buck House in His Dark Materials.

[steven_t]

Such cruelty!

That would put the RSPCA in a real quandary. It would have to act against such cruel treatment of lions and corgis but, on the other hand, the Queen is its patron.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Such cruelty!

That can be fixed, as Andrew has shown

[Pascal Monett]

Seems like justice has actually been served

This bunch of muppets have really overdone themselves in demonstrating what happens when you group together a gaggle of selfish, egotistical, racist bastards who haven't got a clue.

The amount of bindfolded backstabbing going on leaves one breathless. And they want people to give them the responsibility of government ?

No, of course not. They want the perks of government, the responsibility they'll leave to some expendable underlings.

[macjules]

Re: Seems like justice has actually been served

Like all criminals, they are simply after money.

“We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they’re elected. Don’t you?” “Why?” “It saves time.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent

[Wayland]

Re: Seems like justice has actually been served

Would you say the NEC are anti-semetic because they disapprove of UKIP members associating with Zionist Tommy Robinson?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Seems like justice has actually been served

I suspect you are commenting on UKIP during Farages leadership rather than the very swift decline since he left.

While I don't expect Farage to receive any praise here, he managed to enforce policies that kept the loonier parts of his party in check.

Upon his departure, the initial leadership replacements quickly displayed their lack of talent and the party was left to the fringe elements. Who then mounted leadership coups (Farages resignation and 5 coups in 2 years) to steadily became even less talented and more racist. And based on the 2019 election results where 22,817 people voted for them nationally vs 3.8m in 2015, they are irrelevant within the space of 4 years.

Who says UK politics isn't improving?

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Seems like justice has actually been served

It's the same thing that happens to all fringe political movements. UKIP was founded by a bunch of economists who wanted to make economic arguments against the EU. Like the AfD in Germany (though they were only anti-Euro). But economists need someone to hold their hands when crossing roads - so their parties get taken over. UKIP by Farage, and then run as a personal project. Why do you think the Brexit Party was a company with him in sole control? Then once he left, they increasinly were run by whatever loony could get to the top before being toppled. AfD got taken over by the far right. At the BNP I seem to recall someone nicked the money and someone else leaked the membership database.

On the left of politics the Socialist Workers, Communist Party of Great Britain, TUSC and the like are often a vipers nest of horribleness and changing names and committees.

It's the organisations with an actual hope of doing something that are usually a bit more stable and sensible because there are more normal people kicking around. For a given value of normal - in that being a political activist is a pretty niche activity. The influx of people from the far left groups into Labour has lowered the niceness levels of their party's internal politics - though Brown and Blair were originally mates and did that pretty effectively between themselves too - because power is also an incentive to be horrible to people. It's just odd that complete lack of power also attracts some of the more horrible people out of the woodwork.

[Claverhouse]

Corbyn is now Left-Fractionalist to The New Tory Bolshevikism...

Well ---- apart from the set pattern of Presbyterian splits [ and the various bunches of 17th century Independents/Congregationalists that went into ever nuttier groups ---- still happening in America ] which inspired the Trotskyists in the second half of the 20th century, it is worth remembering our Prime Minister, the victorious Billy Bunter is helped in No. 10 by Spiked persons, once extreme-left British Revolutionary Communist Party, now extreme-capitalist Libertarian loons.

So sometimes they get lucky.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Corbyn is now Left-Fractionalist to The New Tory Bolshevikism...

Claverhouse,

A lot of the Neocons - who came in with Reagan and again with Bush junior - were ex lefties from the 60s who'd decided that Communism was bad and so had moved a long way right during the 70s. The zeal of the converted.

However it's also a normal pattern. There are quite a lot of people who dabble with communist thought as students who grow out of it into perfectly normal politicians. Probably less so now, although academia is the last place where Marxism really flourishes after being rather badly tarnished by the fall of the Berlin wall (and previous events). But caring deeply about politics is already a bit odd - and so the enthusiasm of youth often leads people to the extremes - until they've had a bit of life experience or done a bit more thinking - and become more mainstream.

[Spanners]

Re: Corbyn is now Left-Fractionalist to The New Tory Bolshevikism...

I understand that it is common in the USA for ones politics to drift to the right as one "grows up".

I have had the opposite experiance. After an expensive education (not as expensive as Boris' though), where I was happy to see Mrs Thatcher elected less than a year after I left school, I have drifted to the left as I became better aquainted with the real world as well as people not as fortunate as myself..

Is it that US youth has the opposite experience? Do they get a poor education that does tell them about the less fortunate whereupon they forget everything?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Corbyn is now Left-Fractionalist to The New Tory Bolshevikism...

"Is it that US youth has the opposite experience? Do they get a poor education that does tell them about the less fortunate whereupon they forget everything?"

The wild west spirit still flows in the US - a person who jumps into a river to save people from a car that has left the road is a hero. A person who proposes or builds a safety barrier along said road to prevent cars going into the river is considered to have wasted tax payer money.

[NerryTutkins]

smoking gun

"Subject: You're [sic] ukip emails"

Am I the only one thinking the bad grammar and phrasing in this email is just a little too good to be real? I almost expected it to sign off with: "ITS A DISK RACE!!!!".

[Tom 7]

Re: smoking gun

It is strange that people who claim to be 'protecting the British identity' are incapable of writing a sentence of the lingua franca without copious errors.

[Carpet Deal 'em]

Re: smoking gun

Clearly it's a Nigerian prince looking out for you. Now if you'll be so kind as to help him move his assets...

[NeilPost]

Re: smoking gun

‘Lingua Franca” .... sounds fucking foreign to me !!!!

Same as ‘Schadenfreude‘ which sounds Jerry....

..., which I hope will be trucked in at scale before BoJo’s hard fake-Brexit Hogmanay 2020 puts in a hard border to the EU.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: smoking gun

"..., which I hope will be trucked in at scale before BoJo’s hard fake-Brexit Hogmanay 2020 puts in a hard border to the EU."

I believe the tender has already been announced and the current governmental favourite is a new disruptive start-up who don't currently own any trucks.

[Will Godfrey]

But they're such lovely people

Caring too... just for themselves.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dick Braine is the gift that keeps on giving

[Mike Moyle]

Not being familiar with UKIP's internal organization (We've got our own problems on THIS side of the pond!), my first thought was that "Braine" seemed wholly inappropriate for a member of that party. Having just looked him up online and confirmed that he really IS a Dick Braine, I now withdraw my original objection.

[Alan Brown]

He changed his name by deed poll.

It was originally Richard Cranium.

[spold]

Richard the third (Dick) Braine

[Bibbit]

I love this

Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of fellows.

[GnuTzu]

Web Cam

Might as well have mentioned videos from their web cam.

[NeilPost]

Re: Web Cam

Hopefully not spaffing one for Anne W.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Web Cam

Wrong party....

[Anonymous Coward]

UKIP ?

I'll have to consult a history book on that one.

[John Brown (no body)]

History? I think it's an ecumenical matter.

[beep54]

Interesting

Pretty sure that's a sign for a boutique store here in Austin that seems to have closed this year.

[Inventor of the Marmite Laser]

Just when you thought politics couldn't get any more infantile

[BebopWeBop]

I lost all hope that we might not stoop lower some time ago

[Claverhouse]

The Pity of It All

And it all started off with such hopeful innocence. A group of valiant patriots wanting only the best for the country and willing to put all their combined brainpower to getting the very best deal for BRITAIN.

Where did it all go so wrong ?

The best remedy lies not in courts but in appealing to their hearts. Take the whole lot, along with those who were allies in the Brexit Party and the Conservative Party and put them in a room on a tiny uninhabited island in the Atlantic, perhaps one of the smaller islets of Tristan da Cunha, without distracting communication, and not come to take them off until the entire bunch have hugged and made up.

[sandman]

Re: The Pity of It All

Or use said islet for testing the latest iteration of Trident?

[Rich 11]

Re: The Pity of It All

and not come to take them off until the entire bunchsurvivors have hugged and made up.

They'd be eating each other within a week, assuming they could decide on what to use for currency (because only the wealthy are entitled to the choicest cuts, of course).

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh

"a former member who has IT skills"

Oh..... is that reason why he is the "hacker"? It reminds me of an ex, which about a month after breakup I received text messages accusing me of hacking her email account.. why was it me? Because I'm the only person she knew who was capable of such a thing.

Got IT skills? It must be you who did the hack!

Although, It wasn't me. I had actually forgotten her email address by that time.

[Efer Brick]

Dick Braine

Carry on-esq

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd to defend the phrase "wouldn't even rape"

This phrase seems a little odd/awkward by why does it need defending? On the face of it it appears to be a statement that he would not rape Jess Phillips. This seems a bit tasteless and unnecessary but hardly in need of defence.

Is the suggestion that this was intended as a veiled threat? Surely that is not believable and a bit rich to complain about from someone who is well nknown for talking about stabbing in a rhetorical sense (and no I don't think that should be taken literally or is anything to complain about either).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Odd to defend the phrase "wouldn't even rape"

Because in this day and age everyone is looking to take offence and play the victim card.

Social media has made people a butch of wimps these days.

[Wayland]

Re: Odd to defend the phrase "wouldn't even rape"

Politicians say some extreme shit.

Referring to Corbyn "The day you are hurting us and not helping us I won't knife you in the back I will knife you in the front" Jess Philips.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/14/labour-mp-jess-phillips-knife-corbyn-vote-loser-general-election

The "wouldn't even rape" comment was not a political TV interview to go out to the wider public but a live stream long before Sargon ran as a UKIP candidate. It's obviously a great political soundbyte to bash him with. Like "they let you grab them by the pussy" except you leave out the part about them letting you, that gives it greater impact because it sounds like you just sexually assaulted someone.

People love to get outraged about these things but it requires the suspension of common sense. If you want the endorphin rush from getting outraged then switch off common sense.

[NerryTutkins]

Re: Odd to defend the phrase "wouldn't even rape"

"Like "they let you grab them by the pussy" except you leave out the part about them letting you, that gives it greater impact because it sounds like you just sexually assaulted someone."

I am really not sure your interpretation of it constitutues 'consent'. Harvey Weinstein could presumably mount a similar defence, arguing that anyone who did not physically fight him off, consented to whatever he did? Because that was exactly what Donald Trump was saying - that he sexually assaulted people, but they 'let him'.

Let's not forget too that there are several plausible claims of rape against Donald Trump too. And that's aside from his fairly unsavoury behaviour (porn stars, adultery, etc.) which is a matter of public record.

But I suppose it could all be politically motivated though, since the MSM never reported on all Obama's sexual assaults and affairs with porn stars!

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Odd to defend the phrase "wouldn't even rape"

It's a horrible phrase because it can be read as implying that rape is fine, but she's so ugly that I wouldn't even do that. If he'd said, she's ugly and I wouldn't touch her with a baregpole that would have been pathetic but "fine". In the sense that it tells me the speaker is a fuckwit who I don't want to listen to - but the wouldn't even rape moves it from fuckwit to "OK but who would you rape then?"

To be fair, probably nobody. But it's not a good sign of the way someone's mind works. And it makes light of rape, which is a horrible crime. On the other hand, people joke about horrible crimes all the time. But this is the double-standard we hold our politicians to. The question is then where do you draw the line.

It also suggests a certain sexism, that you're rating your political opponents by how they look. As well as a huge level of crass unpleasantness.

If you want to be a poltician - try being polite and respectful to at least some degree. Call the people you don't like bastards or fuckwits and leave looks out of it.

[VulcanV5]

Until I read this article, I had no idea that . . .

UKIP had a brain(e) of any kind. Not that I've much interest in UKIP's activities: a party which includes Neil Hamilton in its ranks is only slightly more repellent than the Liberal Democrats.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it something in the air?

By Deity Of Your Choice, what is wrong with political parties and politicians these days? I don't have a dog in this hunt, living across the pond, but the playground bully tactics and attitudes would shame a ten-year-old child. We have no claim to superiority here, either, given the sorry state of statesmanship here as well. My Christmas wish is that somehow we come out of this and elect and support people for whom cooperation in good faith for the general welfare of the country is not a foreign concept.

[anonymous boring coward]

I wouldn't even rape Sargon of Akkad...