But I only ever hear about us extraditing people to America.
Do they ever send them when we ask?.. I have a feeling I know the answer already.
A Briton once suspected of hacking Pippa Middleton's iCloud account – although he was cleared after a police probe in 2016 – now faces deportation to America. Nathan Wyatt, who is said to have used the handle "The Dark Overlord" online, is accused by American prosecutors of conspiracy, aggravated identity theft and three …
No, in a balanced world Anne Sacoolas would be facing charges relating to the death of Harry Dunn. After exiting RAF (aka USAAF/NSA) Croughton base (a spy-base/listening post near Banbury) earlier this year. She drove on the wrong side of the road, resulting in the death of Harry Dunn. Promised not to leave the country and then fled claiming diplomatic immunity.
Diplomatic immunity is an excellent thing. Would we want our own diplomats in various hostile countries liable to be arrested for road accidents etc. Although the Sacoolas incident was a genuine road accident, it would not be beyond our enemies to concoct a road accident.
The proper response to the Sacoolas incident is at diplomatic, government to government level. Some kind of sanction by us against the US Government until a satisfactory apology and compensation. Maybe the USG has offered this, but Dunn's parents are being unrealistic.
I find myself completely in agreement with the views expressed above. She needs to stand trial. In the UK. Ideally, this would be a non-issue, there would be some government-to-government discussions and the matter would be resolved without fuss.
However, you may have noticed that our government is not, shall we say, functioning at peak efficiency right now. To be frank, it seems to be missing on several cylinders, leaking oil and brake fluid, and both the heat and the a/c are on full blast. For this, we remaining rational members of society apologise. I would say, "bear with us while we get this sorted", but I'm afraid the prognosis is not good, at leat for the next year or so.
Prayer *may* be helpful, in the sense that it would keep your mind off this 4-year slow motion train wreck.
@Primus Secundus Tertius
Diplomatic immunity is an expedient and unfortunately necessary accomadation to allow diplomats to carry out their work (ftfy), I think many would understand the reasons for extension to immediate family when domiciled with a diplomat as well. That having been said, the diplomatic status of Anne Sacoolas and her husband at the time of the accident is highly dubious at best. Her husband is described as an 'Intelligence officer' working at the Croughton listening post, at no point has anyone even claimed that he had any involvment with diplomacy or the US embassy or any consulate.
This view seems biased. https://uk.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/the-u-s-uk-extradition-treaty/frequently-asked-questions-on-the-us-uk-extradition-relationship/
... Moreover, extradition requests from the U.S. to the UK have taken as long as 13 years to work their way through the UK and European courts. For extradition requests from the UK to the U.S. the subjects are in most cases extradited within several months.
... since we have never refused a request from the UK
If you have more current information I would like to hear about it. Especially if you have a table comparing the kind of crimes committed. (For extradition to be considered it has to be a crime in both countries)
That's a statistic that is being extraordinarily obfuscated for a long time.
Latest of any sort I could find:
2018: The U.S. requested 160 and received 57 extradition requests for *violent* crimes, which represented 18.4% of all extradition requests made (in both directions). So there is a lot of room in that math, but that makes for 1,200 annual requests 2/3rd made by the U.S. and 1/3rd made to the U.S.
The last year I could find good, detailed statistics was 2002. The U.S. was running between 670 and 950 combined requests annually during the 90s. Figure we've had 20% population growth since the mid-90s, 950 + 20% is in line with the current level of extraditions (assuming both are "high" years and the 2018 figure of 1,200 wasn't a "low" year).
Wikipedia has some figures:
From January 2004 to the end of December 2011, 7 known US citizens were extradited from the US to the UK. No US citizen was extradited for an alleged crime while the person was based in the US. The U.S. embassy in London reports that, as of April 2013, 38 individuals have been extradited from the US to the UK.
From January 2004 to the end of December 2011, 33 known UK citizens (including 6 with dual nationality) were extradited from the UK to the US. The U.S. embassy in London reports that, as of April 2013, 77 individuals have been extradited from the UK to the US. The U.S. has argued that this is not disproportionate, due to the US population being about five times larger than the UK population.
Make of them what you will.
Edit: Corrected second heading.
Perhaps is is more proportional to the number of people visiting the other country.
Looking around, in 2018
3.8m visitors - tourists - from USA to UK
3.47m visitors - tourists - from UK to USA
so, all things being equal I would expect roughly equal numbers of extradition requests.
if you are a United States citizen who is wanted for extradition by the United Kingdom, you have an absolute right to a hearing in a United States court where you can challenge the evidence that has been put in front of the court and present evidence of your own. If, by contrast, you are a United Kingdom citizen or somebody ordinarily resident here who is wanted by the United States, you have no such right.
Only a liar would claim that there was any relationship to the Pippa incident. I am absolutely sure that Baron Burnett of Maldon would rather help a lowlife from Podunkmiddleshire then a Duchess of Cambridge. I believe in the fairness and equality of the courts. Also I have no money for lawyers.
Glad I'm not from the UK, where I'm from sending people to barbaric countries such as the USA with a rigged legal system and state sanctioned torture in "correctional" facilities would be illegal.
If he did commit crimes against American companies, tough luck, they should sue in UK courts.
The sentence for an offender in the UK is often/usually a period of supervision by the state authorities. The first part of the period is usually in a prison; the later part is supervision by probation officers. The sentence is completed when both parts have run their course. A life sentence does not necessarily mean a person spends the rest of their life in prison - it means they spend the rest of their life under supervision. This is why a person given a life sentence might be 'released' from prison but has to live under the supervision of probation officers (eventually monthly or less frequent meetings) and why judges sometimes specify the minimum term of a life sentence to be served in prison.
I hadn't heard that Mr Assange was being held in solitary 23/7. I wonder if its only the authorities he's annoyed or his fellow inmates too? As he already has a high profile history of absconding I think it's unlikely he'll be allowed to serve any part of his sentence under supervision outside prison.
Assange was not a political prisoner. He was a common or garden bail jumper who demonstrated he can't be trusted not to abscond should he be released, which is also why he's still being held awaiting his next extradition hearing.
I'm not sure why he got solitary though. Maybe the other prisoners complained about the smell.
Except for political prisoners such as Julian Assange
Not remotely true. The rape allegations he fled by jumping bail are still before various courts for the matter of detention/extradition, as is the crimes he's charged with in America. There's nothing political about it - these are accusations of simple crimes that have spanned several administrations.
Quite who he thinks he is to be sending conditional offer letters to several judiciaries stating his terms for being bound by the law. It's insane. His predicament is very much played for and got.
The US justice system isn't that balanced, its based on intimidation where the prosecutors pile up largely synthetic charges which on conviction result in massive penalties. (There's no such thing as "taking into consideration" in the US and pretty much everything is tariffed consecutively.) The aim is to force a plea deal which can allow conviction on the most ridiculous things (e.g. "lying to the FBI"). To fend this off you need decent and so rather expensive representation.
This explains why poor people, especially minorities, find them selves in jail for decades for what are often quite trivial charges. A foreigner without resources doesn't stand a chance in this environment, especially against Federal prosecutors, so I'd guess he's screwed.
I don't think that US law should be applied extra territoriality but believe it or not one of the unfortunate side effects of being a US citizen is that you can be busted at home for things that are not an offense overseas. I suppose our peverse judicial logic applies to everyone else in the world; here you are at a bit of a disadvantage compared to the rest of the world who typically expect concrete charges and a reasonable expectation of due process and fair penalties before disgorging their citizens. The UK just snaps to attention and obeys orders....
"This explains why poor people, especially minorities, find them selves in jail for decades for what are often quite trivial charges. A foreigner without resources doesn't stand a chance in this environment, especially against Federal prosecutors, so I'd guess he's screwed"
That part of the system is stacked to keep the prison operating corps' supplied with a continuous labour pool.
The other fucked up part of the US system is it's Cash bail system. The better off get to go home, the poor sit in cess pit prisons, regardless of how petty the crime they may or may not of commited.
Don't even start me on poor man drugs Vs rich man drugs sentencing laws.
Doesn't America market itself as the land of the free? The American dream and all that?
It doesn't sound so free when you hear most Americans describe their legal system... or that great of a dream (unless you're already rich)..
Land of the free huh?
/ Joking, America is great, honest!
/ Anon for the small bit of hope that the FBI won't extradite me for this comment.
"I don't think that US law should be applied extra territoriality but believe it or not one of the unfortunate side effects of being a US citizen is that you can be busted at home for things that are not an offense overseas."
He's just been released from jail after being convicted of exactly the same crimes here, and he hasn't even tried to deny he committed the additional ones he's accused of in the US. His only defence is that if they'd sent the evidence to the UK earlier he could have been convicted of some additional crimes over here. For all the flaws the US justice system has, this is not the case on which to try to make a stand. He's not screwed because of a crooked justice system and the UK bending over to let the US do whatever it wants, he's screwed because he's an unrepentant criminal for whom the only question is which country he most deserves to be jailed in.
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If you don't want to get caught up in the USA's legal system, don't commit crimes.
...and please, no comments about innocent people being found guilty. Especially, since meeting the burden of proof is typically higher in the USA than other countries. Not to mention, no other country has protections as solid as the 4th amendment; not even England.
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