back to article Conspiracy loons claim victory in Brighton and Hove as council rejects plans to build 5G masts

Brighton and Hove has been claimed as the latest victory in the battleground against common sense, with the council agreeing to ban the erection of three 5G masts. The 20-metre masts were set to be installed in Brighton, but the city council has refused planning permission, saying the masts would create "visual clutter" and …

  1. DontFeedTheTrolls

    I bet every single objector has an existing mobile at least 3G if not 4G. Better switch off all existing cellular services in Brighton then.

    Could go down in history as the only not spot that chose to be rather than by lack of delivery of infrastructure by the networks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Switch off the wi-fi too, and the overhead pylons/power lines. And the micorwave ovens, and CRT TV's..... Everything is bad for you......

      1. Korev Silver badge

        Hopefully "Brighton and Hove 5G Radiation Free" are campaigning against radiation in the 380-740nm wavelengths too...

        1. Annihilator

          God I hope so - that's in the terahertz range!! Terrifying!! Surely no one in their right minds would propose exposing the general public to that.

          1. Peter2 Silver badge

            In case anybody missed it, the above is the entire spectrum of visible light. I'm sure there are people that don't know, probably starting with the conspiracy loons who got the 5g masts banned. One suspects that you could emulate the dihydrogen monoxide campaign on that.

            And note that they know full well that they aren't going to get anywhere with quasi scientific health concerns as they will receive appropriate scrutiny from people who will disprove their claims; so they had them blocked on the grounds of "visual clutter" to avoid their views being held up to public scrutiny.

            1. DontFeedTheTrolls


              Like 56% of Americans saying the teaching of Arabic numerals should be banned in schools.

              Snopes validated

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                In the same 'survey" they asked whether children should be taught about the creation theory of Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre.*

                The results were predictable, the other way.

                * He called it "hypothesis of the primeval atom" but eventually it became known as "the Big Bang theory".

                1. ibmalone

                  While they do demonstrate the point about us all having our biases, it's interesting to consider how heavily they had to weight the "creation theory" question. Would Lemaitre have called it "creation theory" (a man who dissuaded the Pope from talking about creationism)? It's no longer known by this name, while Arabic numerals are still so-called. The word creation carries a particular implication of a creator, while Lemaitre attempted to separate questions of creation from his hypothesis, and plenty of people are opposed to teaching that there is a creator.

                  Without access to wikipedia if you'd made me tell you what I thought a creation theory proposed by a particular catholic priest might be (without the option to say don't know), I'd have said some form of creation theory, just as if I (somehow) didn't know what an Arabic numeral was I'd guess... some kind of numeral. If they'd asked people about "the hypothesis of the primeval atom theory of Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre" I suspect a lot more "don't knows" would have resulted. You've still got the "Catholic priest" bit in there as the counterpart to "Arabic" in "Arabic numerals".

                  Now... should Chinese numerals be taught in schools? (No peeking.)

                  1. jake Silver badge

                    "should Chinese numerals be taught in schools?"

                    They are taught in schools.

                    The real question is "Why aren't today's kids taught how to use the Abacus and the Sliderule?" and when using one or the other still makes sense ...

                    1. ibmalone

                      Spoiling my fun! One is possibly taught in schools, "0" may derive from a Chinese character, the rest of our modern set are of Indian or Arabic origin. Although they invented positional representation and the concept of zero the Hindus went a while without a symbol for it other than a dot.

                      1. herman Silver badge

                        Hmm, in actual Arabic numerals, zero is indeed a dot.

                    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

                      Mentioning the slide rule brings back a memory. When I was in school we were not allowed to use a calculator. I asked the teacher if I could use a slide rule, cheeky bastard that I am. The answer was yes and I sat down with my mom's and an instruction sheet and learned how. I still use one from time to time. They can be very fast for certain types of calculations, don't need a battery and are easy to read in sunlight. I have a hell of a collection now as a friend of mine buys from estate sales and usually gets them for free as people don't know what they are. My favorite is a nuclear bomb blast calculator from the 50's/60's. Not all that handy for anything I do, but I framed it with the instructions and have it on the wall.

              2. ibmalone

                While we're at it, why are so many schools still wasting time teaching the Latin alphabet?

              3. herman Silver badge

                Arabic numerals aren't tought in American schools

                Real Arabic numerals look entirely different from what most folks (everybody except those that actually know Arabic writing) are used to. I cannot even type an example number for you - even though they are printed on my keyboard, I cannot type them.

          2. LewisRage

            Literally Terror and Hurts, it must be bad.

            (Wasn't TerrorHurtz in robot wars?)

        2. katrinab Silver badge

          Yes, they do campaign against streetlights, especially the LED ones, which are apparently dangerous in a way that sodium ones are not. They cause blindness or something.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            LED streetlights are typically whiter than the yellowish Sodium streetlights. Stargazers and naturalists don't like LED streetlights, whilst on the other hand it has been claimed women find it easier to identify attackers under whiter light.

            The body of evidence about the effect of light frequency upon our circadian rhythms and health is diverse and strong.

            1. ChrisLip

              Human Circadian Rythms

              Well said Dave.

              All living things have biological cycles or circadian rythems. For humans they are mostly based around the solar day cycle. Other species like trees and coral are known to have acycles based on the moon. Day light has the effect upon the pineal gland to to secrete its most powerfull hormone the nurotransmitter serotonin which triggering awakeness, digestion and well being. Then later in the day as the sun is setting the red and amber lights changes the secretion to melatonin. This triggers a different sets of human body sub routines. Melatonin promotes sleep and promps the liver to start detoxing and neutralising cancer cells among others.

              The human body is basically a well designed machine, with technology way beyond todays human comprehension. To main good health and to survive, your body just like a car or your computer needs to function efficiently and effectively. Giving a car regular service and attention to correct irregularities will prolong its life. When the computer system goes to sleep that is a good time for internal housekeeping routines such as backups, virus checks, disk parity checks and updates. Hence good functioning.

              It is not heathy for humans to be exposed to the full light spectrum 24/7. In good regular sleep we get to process information and on a deeper level as notifications hopefully get switched off (my phone never comes into my bedroom) and distractions diminish.

              We need to holistically recalibrate our total understandings, astral travel in our dreams and possibilities. Think how man has evolved / adapted for thousands of millions of years before electricity was harnessed. Today we are subject to a full spectrum man made EMF assault with frequencies the ionosphere was designed to keep out. Military communications, geoengineering and 5G are real threat to our electromagnetic bodies but also consider the unnatural shortwave frequency effects upon the small pollinators.

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: Human Circadian Rythms

                Must be something in the water ...

            2. HelpfulJohn Bronze badge

              "Stargazers and naturalists don't like LED streetlights ..."

              Astronomers tend to prefer sodium because it is easier to filter without degrading the light from the sky objects, fewer lines in their spectrum and many astronomical objects are rather poor emitters of those.

              I don't know why naturalists would dislike LED's, apart from them being overly bright.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Stargazers don’t like them? They make stars easier to see as the ones round these parts direct their light downwards instead of a lot going upwards.

            4. Caffeinated Sponge

              Meh, I regret the passing of sodium lighting purely on aesthetic grounds but LED lighting is technically superior in most ways - about the only problems being that sighting is far more important due to the more focused nature and they do have an annoying tendency to turn into strobe lights when things go wrong.

          2. MachDiamond Silver badge

            I just want all new street lights and those being changed to LED to be night sky compliant.

            There's a prison not to far away that looks like a volcano on the horizon at night. I keep thinking they'd be better off putting IR lights in strategic places with IR CCTV so the facility is very dark at night.

            There are some really good dark sky places not too far from me and I hope they stay that way.

        3. Luiz Abdala

          I see what you did there...

          ...using that 380-740nm wavelength radiation to notice it.

        4. Sherrie Ludwig

          "Hopefully "Brighton and Hove 5G Radiation Free" are campaigning against radiation in the 380-740nm wavelengths too..."

          well, TBH, anyone with pale skin knows some of that range from a nearby star can cause some very painful skin reddening and peeling.....

          1. Col_Panek

            It's known to cause skin cancer!

      2. Jeffrey Nonken

      3. Fred Dibnah

        I think you’ll find that most of the CRT TVs have already been switched off. Switched off, unplugged, taken to the dump, and smashed up.

      4. MachDiamond Silver badge

        CRT TV? What's that?

    2. MMR

      Not getting on either side of the fence, but...

      <quote>I bet every single objector has an existing mobile at least 3G if not 4G.</quote>

      5G is a different kind of technology and not exactly a straight evolution from 4G.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Really? It's still low power non-ionising radiation.

    3. Anonymous Coward

      Neoliberalism SUCKS

      Erm, NO...because...

      5G is an order of magnitude (i.e. TEN times) higher frequency than 3/4G and WiFi and my microwave oven.

      Not only that, but it's ALWAYS ON rather than on demand.

      The PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE should apply...until proven safe through long-term experiments. Why should that EVER be a problem, to be pretty sure about the safety of our TOYS and gadgets before implementing them willy-nilly globally?

      5G might be perfectly safe, but it might not be, and we DON'T KNOW YET.

      I'd prefer to have capitalism that accepts the PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE rather than a rapacious, blood sucking capitalism which says:

      "Feck it, lets just DO IT anyway, then if there's a problem, we'll have have sold up and moved on by then...or paid off enough politicians for it to NEVER be a problem for us..."

      1. simpfeld

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        "PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE", sounds like you are asking to prove a negative.

        To say otherwise you'd have to show some evidence of risk.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

          Thank you very much Greta for your great contribution to this debate...

          All these downvotes, and your comment...proves to me that too many IT people are suffering from autism / Aspergers, as evidenced by their inability to look outside of their very narrow perspective...or box...

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        The precautionary principle also applies to polluting the public discourse with pseudoscience, especially at a time when our civilisation desperately needs to pay more attention to real science in areas such as climate change.


        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS


          How charming, and totally uncalled for, you Wazzock

      3. tip pc Silver badge

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        There are some low power high frequency bands which will mainly be point to point from lamp posts to houses etc. The bands for use for phones is much lower frequency and in the ranges already used for 3G & 4g

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        Is that you Bob?

        1. not.known@this.address

          Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS - Is that you Bob?

          "Gotta light?"

          If you see a scruffy-looking man shuffling around the town, you'd better call Agent Cooper...

      5. jemerlia

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        e-m radiation does not have to be ionizing to be dangerous. Ask the fly trapped in a microwave oven. c. 30GHz radiation is non-ionizing but it does excite general 0-H vibrational modes and the thermally sensitive links in which they abound in organic tissue. The greater opacity (hence absorption) of material (including living material) at this frequency demands higher power and more transceivers. Being cautious with this technology which appears mostly without wide purpose when safe Gb fibre is available is not unreasonable.

        1. Schultz

          "e-m radiation does not have to be ionizing to be dangerous"

          It's a matter of the dose. Microwaves ovens use GHz radiation to heat water. And, unsurprisingly, heat can kill. This has nothing to do with the electromagnetic nature of the radiation. As I explained above, photon energies below the visible regime do not break chemical bonds. So they are harmless. Unless you cook yourself with them.

          1. Peter2 Silver badge

            Re: "e-m radiation does not have to be ionizing to be dangerous"

            It's a matter of the dose.

            Put the dose out there so that people can see and understand it.

            Microwave: 1200 w

            Phone: 0.2 w

            1. juvenihil

              Re: "e-m radiation does not have to be ionizing to be dangerous"

              Not only that, but also the area to which that power is applied: the microwave use a 30Ghz wave at 800/1200W on a distance of a couple of centimeter. A 5G antenna radiates on a frequency between 3.5GHz and 24GHz with a power going from 250mW (24dBm) up to 250W(50dBm) for the largest array. 2/3/4G are on 20W(43dBm). But, the largest array (macro antennas) are designed to sit on 30m towers. By the work of Okumura-Hata we know that the path loss in dB 7.3+37.7log10(r). So, giving that you sit right under the 5G macro antenna's tower, the path loss (the loss of received power because of distance to put it simple) is ~63dB.

              So, the power you receive *sitting under the biggest 5G antenna* is 50dBm-63dB=-13dBm. In a more comfortable unit, 0.000050118723363 Watts. It's 50,12μW.

              The biggest 5G antenna is 23'943'147 times LESS than a microwave. Almost 24 MILLION TIMES LESS ENERGY.

              1. Col_Panek

                Re: "e-m radiation does not have to be ionizing to be dangerous"

                You aren't taking in to account the RAAAADIATION! pattern of the antenna. It is aimed just below the horizon, and right underneath the antenna you might find a null, but probably much less than if you were in the far field of the antenna. It's done to even out the coverage and not waste power where it's not needed.

                Those folks holding a phone within a cm of their heads are getting more RAAAADIATION! than those standing around near a tower.

                RAAADIATION! Are you scared yet? Look up the nocebo effect, yes, it can make you sick!!

      6. Schultz

        "5G is an order of magnitude (i.e. TEN times) higher frequency "

        And the 5G frquency is some 10'000 below that of visible light. And, as opposed to visible light (or, god forbid, UV light), this frequency does not create radicals or affect chemical reactions in any detectable way.

        The GHz regime of 5G radiation is a regime where rotating molecules absorb and emit radiation. This occurs continuously in our atmosphere. Look at the atmospheric microwave transmission spectrum, wherever the atmosphere is opaque (non-transmitting), atmospheric molecules absorb and emit radiation. Oh, and in the spots where the atmosphere is not opaque, you are bombarded by the unattenuated microwave emission of the sun. It's quite pleasant to feel the warm sun on your skin, isn't it? It's all that radiation hitting you.

        I suggest everybody should spend 5 minutes understanding energy and radiation. Maybe start here, looking up the avelength and frequency of diferent parts of the EM spectrum. Everything <u>above</u> the visible regime (UV, X-rays, ...) can break chemical bonds and is scary. Everything <u>below</u> cannot break chemical bonds because there is not enough energy in a single photon to overcome the bond energy. (Exceptions exist in the form of highly reactive chemicals, but those will poison you without requiring any light.) Remember, you can always use E = h×frequency with the Planck constant h to convert the photon frequencies to energy and then compare that photon energy quantum to whatever you are interested in.

        OK, Kindergarden is over, go back to your day jobs!

      7. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        You began with an incorrect statement about 5G. Outdoors, it uses more or less the same frequencies as 4G and wifi. It is only the short range indoor stuff for which much higher frequencies are planned.

        The precautionary principle should apply where there is evidence that there may be a risk. How do you do a long term population experiment on something like 5G without actually rolling it out? You can't. But equally you cannot show a mechanism by which the 20-30GHz band will have any effect on people other than very slight skin warming.

        In the days when railways first appeared, attempts were made by coach and canal operators to "prove" they would be unsafe. Dionysius Lardner was put up to claim that people travelling at 30mph would be unable to breathe. Shortly after locomotives achieved 30mph and people continued to breathe. So the opposition went away to make up new arguments. As it was, even the early railways proved much safer than horses or coaches.

        1. Col_Panek

          Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

          Many of those bathed in RF RADIATION when it first came out have died. Wake up, sheeple!

      8. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        5G is an order of magnitude (i.e. TEN times) higher frequency than 3/4G and WiFi and my microwave oven.

        So? What's the frequency got to do with it? Since the military use this band for RADAR and such like at vastly higher power outputs it's well known that it's not dangerous unless your transmitting at levels of power that are vastly higher than 5G is using.

        Not only that, but it's ALWAYS ON rather than on demand.

        It's only "always on" when transmitting. No transmitting, no use. That's effectively "on demand"?

        The PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE should apply...until proven safe through long-term experiments. Why should that EVER be a problem, to be pretty sure about the safety of our TOYS and gadgets before implementing them willy-nilly globally?

        Cool; about 60 years worth of transmitting things on that energy band without any adverse effect is a sufficient long term experiment to be sure about the safety of radio waves in this frequency band?

        1. SAdams

          Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

          “ Cool; about 60 years worth of transmitting things on that energy band without any adverse effect is a sufficient long term experiment to be sure about the safety of radio waves in this frequency band?”

          No adverse effects? Have you been watching the news?

      9. juvenihil

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        1) "precautionary principle" resides in your head. And there is meant to stay.

        2) those wavelenght *are* tested. Extensively. There is no physical way they could transmit enought energy not only to damage but to alter in any way a living tissue. And electro-magnetic sensitivity or whatever, is a psychosomatic disease. It's hysterical. As the precautionary principle, it lives in your neurotic head.

      10. hoofie

        Re: Neoliberalism SUCKS

        "it's ALWAYS ON rather than on demand"

        Yeah unlike 4G and Wifi which is always

        "5G is an order of magnitude (i.e. TEN times) higher frequency than 3/4G and WiFi and my microwave oven."


    4. jake Silver badge

      A not-spot that chose to be, less than 200 miles by road from Silly Con Valley.

      "Could go down in history as the only not spot that chose to be"

      The little, isolated, picturesque coastal tourist town of Mendocino, California chose to not allow cellular service until fairly recently, It is home to a bunch of aging under-educated hippies who think that all radiation is inherently bad.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So these claims have already been debunked then? (University of Melbourne)

      1. jake Silver badge

        Yes, Devra Davis' thoughts about the supposed dangers of cell phones have been thoroughly debunked. Here's one example from Science Based Medicine:

        Here's another little blurb, this time from the wayback machine:

        "Devra Davis, who is not quite a scientist, but has a PhD in something called Science Studies ..."

    6. Backhaul

      5G Conspiracy Loons?

      Not sure that everyone commenting on this post understands how different in shape and extent the 5G exclusion zones are from those for 2,3 & 4G antennas and the impact of the exclusion zone upon the site itself, let alone neighbouring buildings.

      Cornerstone are designing sites to comply only with ICNIRP occupational limits and classify all members of the working population as "Occupational". ICNIRP on the other hand class only workers in the industry who are trained in rf, understand rf and the risks, as occupational. All other workers are classed as members of the public. So it appears that Cornerstone are not applying the correct ICNIRP standards to their sites.......

      Why is this relevant? Because if your air con contractor for instance wants access to the plant on the roof, he may well be working in the public exclusion zone. He won't have an rf monitor. He won't be trained in rf so he will refuse to go out on to the roof. For street masts the 5G exclusion zone could now well include the bedrooms of adjacent buildings, or offices.

      5G exclusion zones are massive in comparison and of a totally different shape to 3/4G. Hence the requirement to raise the antennas higher than existing 3/4G systems. So, surely the operators know this? Well, yes, and perhaps that is why they are refusing to disclose drawings that show the ICNIRP exclusion zones for 5G sites and MBNL are marking them with "NOTE; ANY DRAWINGS SHOWING ICNIRP EXCLUSION ZONES MUST NOT ("NOT" is underlined and in red) BE SENT TO THE SITE PROVIDE, SITE PROVIDERS AGENT OR PLANNING DEPARTMENTS".

      You have to ask yourself- "Why?"

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Wow, what a catalog

    "increased cancer risk, cellular stress, increase in harmful free radicals, genetic damages, structural and functional changes of the reproductive system, learning and memory deficits, neurological disorders and general negative wellbeing in general on humans"

    With a list like that, you'd think that the government would have a FEMA-style lockdown on the things.

    Thank goodness that none of those disorders could possibly be linked to the pesticide-covered, genetically-modified food we have been ingesting for the past thirty years. No, its the microwaves.

    Has to be.

    1. batfink

      Re: Wow, what a catalog

      Of course all these claims on the petition will be backed up by serious research.

      Oh wait...

      1. Little Mouse

        Re: Wow, what a catalog

        From the petition:

        "there is growing evidence of harmful effects"

        Presumably of the "anecdotal" variety.

        1. DaLo

          Re: Wow, what a catalog

          They don't need growing evidence.

          Just evidence would be enough*

          *peer reviewed of course and published in a respectable journal

        2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

          Re: Wow, what a catalog

          Presumably of the "anecdotal" variety.

          She turned me into a newt.

          1. quxinot

            Re: Wow, what a catalog

            >She turned me into a newt.

            There's no reason to be concerned. You'll get better.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wow, what a catalog

        Has this been debunked already? From the university of Melbourne.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Wow, what a catalog

          Yes, Devra Davis' thoughts about the supposed dangers of cell phones have been thoroughly debunked. Here's one example from Science Based Medicine:

          Here's another little blurb, this time from the wayback machine:

          "Devra Davis, who is not quite a scientist, but has a PhD in something called Science Studies ..."

    2. hplasm

      Re: Wow, what a catalog

      "include headaches, concentration difficulties, sleep problems, depression, lack of energy, fatigue and flu-like symptoms".

      I get these very symptoms from the ever increasing exposure to free Idiots in the environment.

      1. Robert Helpmann??

        Re: Wow, what a catalog

        You left off "learning and memory deficits, [and] neurological disorders", but I think we can accept these as preexisting conditions.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow, what a catalog

      “learning and memory deficits”

      Actually, they might be on to something there.

      Not because of “teh electros”, but because of the yoof of today mindlessly tapping away on their mobes whenever 60 seconds of “free” time are available. From time to time I forget to pay a phone bill, or switch off wifi at my home, just to hear my kids say “I’m bored” after 10 minutes. Another ten minutes later they’re perusing an actual book, or remembered about the Scrabble set in the attic.

      I’ve even told them sometimes to get off my lawn, to walk the dog.

    4. d3vy

      Re: Wow, what a catalog

      "Thank goodness that none of those disorders could possibly be linked to the pesticide-covered, genetically-modified food we have been ingesting for the past thirty years. No, its the microwaves."

      Down voted for taking one scary sounding thing (5g) and replacing it with another scary sounding thing (GMOs) even though there is no proof that either cause any ill effects.

      1. Wellyboot Silver badge

        Re: Wow, what a catalog

        Just an idle thought, I believe ingesting almost anything is more harmful than putting the same amount on your skin, so GMO are in fact at least an order more dangerous than a few more radio waves in the air.

        Both have risk levels that tend to zero for normal exposure levels.

    5. Swampie

      I blame Marconi

      I blame Marconi and his evil AM radio... see, it sank the Titanic now didn't it! And too, If you leave your idiot phone on in a Boeing 737 Max, it will crash land and kill everyone! Proof that Electro Magnetic Radiation is harmful... just lay out in the sun without sun block on for 3 to 4 hrs... turns you Red!

      Don't even get me started on how the color of my car at night is changed by those evil Orange hued street lights! OH, and my sister's wedding dress wasn't a nice shade of egg shell white, but some funny blue hue at the wedding reception and those cheap chinese fluorescent tube lights they had!!!

      1. Clunking Fist

        Re: I blame Marconi

        If only the Captain of the Titanic had been wearing a copper bracelet, all would have been fine.

    6. Intractable Potsherd

      Re: Wow, what a catalog

      @Pascal: "... none of those disorders could possibly be linked to the pesticide-covered, genetically-modified food we have been ingesting for the past thirty years."

      I had to downvote you for substituting one set of bad science for another. Pesticides possibly, but not" genetically modified food".

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Wow, what a catalog

        "but not" genetically modified food""

        Especially considering that everything you have ever eaten was genetically modified.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Wow, what a catalog

          Just can't get free range sulfur metabolising archaeobacteria even in Waitrose these days.

  3. Flywheel

    "harmful free radicals"

    I thought Brighton was renowned for that type of person...

    In other news, think how big Vodafone's billing fsckup would be at 5g rates!

    1. Oengus

      Re: "harmful free radicals"

      These are the most harmful free radicals we have on the loose at the moment.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "harmful free radicals"

        Looks like there is some disagreement - lets let XR present their own case vs a scientist:

        Disclaimer: my opinion on the evidence presented about climate change is that it is consistent, backed by science and needs to be addressed. The solutions put forward by XR are not (in my opinion) looking to address climate change, they are looking to implement economic/political change in the name of climate change with very emotional arguments that aren't supported by science.

        1. CountCadaver Silver badge

          Re: "harmful free radicals"

          They even freely admit "we're not an evironmental movement" they are more intent on dismantling our entire economic and social systems in favour of whatever form of "rule by committee" they favour this week....

  4. Jay 2

    Hmm, am somewhat reminded of one of the latest BoFH...

  5. Blockchain commentard

    Sounds like a fair-headed and factual argument against 5G. In other news, there's something in the water in the south of England, probably run-off from all the cannabis farms down there.

    1. weezmgk

      Fair headed & factual as long as bad juju is a known health risk.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      To be fair, the reason the council banned them wasn't because of the loonies, but because they thought the new masts would look ugly.

      1. weezmgk

        Compared to cobweb style power wiring as used in Brighton, cellular towers are positively lovely.

      2. sinsi

        Sounds more like the council found an excuse to agree with the loonies.

        1. Wellyboot Silver badge

          Brighton & Hove councillors = 14 Conservative / 19 Green / 20 Labour / 1 Independant.

          That's a majority of loonies whatever your preference.

          1. Dazed and Confused

            Give teenages the vote ...

            and 5G mast will be compulsory every few yards, if my kids are anything to go by. Taken them too far from a 4G mast and they threaten to stop breathing, once they get 5G I'm sure the same symptoms will transfer over

            1. Danny 2

              Re: Give teenages the vote ...

              "5G mast will be compulsory every few yards"

              Given their lack of power that is a fair assessment. It will need an urban forest of masts.

              The first home I bought had a three digit Bakelite telephone, that British Telecom stole when my guinea pigs chewed through the cord. British Telecom broke into my house to steal the phone, even back in 1990 it was worth a few hundred quid. And my telephone number at the time - 237.

              I threatened legal action and they threatened my pigs.

              Whitehall 1212


      3. Erebus_77

        And yet a gigantic steel and glass fairground ride, stuck right in the middle of the only actually beautiful vista in Brighton (ie, out to sea) is perfectly fine

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Those complaints eventually disappeared, to be replaced by whinging about lack of coverage instead."

    Completing another trip round that loop is only a matter of time. The time taken for 5G phones to become the norm.

  7. Wade Burchette

    Reminds me of a true story

    Many years ago I read an article on a TV news website -- which I foolishly forgot to save -- that said people were complaining about headaches after a AT&T had put a mobile phone tower in the area. They complained so much that the TV news investigated. Turned out the tower did not even have electricity to it yet, not even for the safety lights. Their headaches were all psychosomatic.

    1. Steve Todd

      Re: Reminds me of a true story

      Similar story. A new crematorium was being built. The locals started complaining about the smell of burning bodies before it was even in operation.

      1. Spanners Silver badge

        Re: Reminds me of a true story

        I heard a story of when, in the USA, a new phone mast was put up and the phone company immediately started getting all the complaints about "flu like symptoms", headaches, aches and pains.

        The phone Co. thanked them all for this information on their pre-existing conditions and added that the mast was not switched on yet,

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reminds me of a true story

      I read another one, about the same, new phone tower, person living nearby started complaining of headaches and some such.

      However, it turned out there was a power transformer installed for the tower near her home, and that was really emitting a close-to-subsonic buzz, as those things do, that really did explain the symptoms, and also, could be fixed.

      But yeah, that was rather the exception than the norm :)

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Reminds me of a true story

      "Their headaches were all psychosomatic."

      So that's proven then. Mobile phone masts cause psychosomatic headaches. It's only a short step from psychosomatic to psychopathic.

    4. Dr_N

      Re: Reminds me of a true story

      Nothing beats the ecomentalist setting off the geiger counter after a trip round a CEGB powerstation ****ing himself. Only to be told by a passing engineer it was his luminous wristwatch dial that was triggering it.

      1. Dazed and Confused

        Re: Reminds me of a true story

        When I was at college for my A-Levels much the strongest radiation source the college had was an old luminous watch, it was apparently orders of magnitude higher than they were allowed to buy for educational use.

        Terry Pratchett used to tell a story of when he worked in a nuclear power station and a visitor set off the machine that not supposed to go Bing while enter the establishment for an open day. Turns out he'd been dismantling an old WW2 altimeter on his kitchen table the night before.

  8. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    Who cares?

    I don't live in or near Brighton and hardly ever go there. If they choose to become a technological backwater, good for them. Chances are once the majority of residents realise what is happening, they will soon elect different council members and have the planning approved.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who cares?

      Sad thing is, people very rarely select councillors (or any other elected official) using common sense, or even not-so-common sense, or indeed any sense whatsoever.

      We'd all be better off if everyone voted for the monster raving loonies.....

      1. MAF

        Re: Who cares?

        I thought that they already had...

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: Who cares?

          No, they have better hats

    2. jmch Silver badge

      Re: Who cares?

      "If they choose to become a technological backwater, good for them. Chances are once the majority of residents realise what is happening, they will soon elect different council members and have the planning approved."

      Given that (a) some people believe all this EM is bad for them and (b) I'm sure there is a market for 'offline' holidays, I'm actually surprised there isn't a town somewhere that just switches everything off and markets itself to both (a) as permanent residents and (b) to have a tourist economy going.

      Seems like a win-win including for (c) everyone else who doesn't have to listen to the complaints

      1. Danny 2

        Re: Who cares?

        "Given that (a) some people believe all this EM is bad for them" - jmch

        Some EM is definitely bad for you to arguable degrees, but provable amounts. Some crazy folk used to claim microwave ovens are a serious health risk, and yet now they are everywhere and nobody has been harmed, right? Wrong.

        My dad was fitted with a pacemaker and the doctors published advice is not to be near a working microwave oven, because many of them leak and can damage his pace maker and potentially kill him.

        Many microwave ovens leak microwaves, and if it is not safe for someone with a pacemaker to be in the same room as one then it is probably a good idea that nobody is.

        I'm not saying 5G is a health threat, I seriously doubt it, but precautionary principle and past experience suggest more caution than is being discussed here. We don't really do credible medical testing in the tech world. We do understand the inverse law of distance.

        Stand back from your microwave oven, or check for leaks. Don't put that 5G pole in your garden until the studies have been done, put it in your neighbours garden or down the street.

        1. Alister

          Re: Who cares?

          Err, you do know that a microwave oven produces hundreds of Watts of power - some more than a kilowatt, as compared to the peak output of a cell tower being about 60W?

        2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

          Citation please ?

          You do know that technology is not static ? Pacemakers are constantly improving, security standards are in constant review, microwave technology is standardized and 5G masts are not being put in your backyard, or in your neighbor's backyard. They are being put on top of the tallest buildings in the area, and their height is to ensure that nobody gets fried if walking on the roof.

          Honestly, it's time to put this kind of bullshit to rest.

          1. Danny 2

            Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

            Well, the citation is anecdotal, the surgeon telling my mum. Now it could very well be my mum just lied about that to get my dad out of her kitchen.

            I honestly don't know what you and Alister read in my post that troubled you. I do know this stuff, I used to test microwave comms kit, and I have a few stories.

            I think it is best to outsource this to PhysicsGirl though - Can you call a cell phone in the microwave?


            [The lesson everyone has to take from that is to wrap your phone in tinfoil. Better Call Saul.]

            "They are being put on top of the tallest buildings in the area, and their height is to ensure that nobody gets fried if walking on the roof."

            Wrong, the height is to maximise coverage, nothing to do with frying people. You are scaremongering now.

            1. Dazed and Confused

              Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

              >> "They are being put on top of the tallest buildings in the area, and their height is to ensure that nobody gets fried if walking on the roof."

              > Wrong, the height is to maximise coverage, nothing to do with frying people. You are scaremongering now.

              I think there comment about height is really to do with distance. The power drop off is going to be inverse square law. So even if you are at the bottom of the tower it is still a distance from you and the wattage you'll receive is significantly reduced.

              1. Danny 2

                Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

                Sure, and I get that it's not damaging to us as it's non-ionising radiation. I'm also aware that non-ionising radiation is a major cause of error in electric/electronic devices such as microprocessors. And historically pacemakers.

                1. hoofie

                  Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

                  You are thinking of Cosmic Radiation which does have enough energy to cause random errors in Modern electronics. That's been known about for decades and is countered by "Radiation Hardening"

                  You also have to be outside the atmosphere to be at severe risk but there is an increased risk to aircraft cabin crew, passengers who travel constantly at high altitudes.

              2. Stoneshop

                Re: Many microwave ovens leak microwaves

                So even if you are at the bottom of the tower it is still a distance from you.

                Even more contributing is the antenna's radiation pattern. [1..n]G masts, as well as most WiFi APs and the like have an elevation pattern looking like a pillow, or even a pancake. Which makes sense as there's no point in sending energy upwards, especially straight up, if there's no client that way. And as elevation patterns are mirrored along the horizontal (or rather along the main elevation lobe, which _can_ be tilted) there's also very little energy going down.

                Which caused mobile coverage to be rather shit with our previous provider, whose antennas were on top of our office.

        3. Schultz

          "...and the doctors published advice [...] not to be near a working microwave oven"

          So you have an anecdote of a doctor telling about possible harm to pacemakers and you extrapolate that to a general recommendation about microwave ovens and 5G antennas?

          I wonder if there are any scientific studies on the effect of microwave ovens ... well, we could look at this article citing the FDA analysis of the problem, or at that article from the NHS discussing the issue, or at another one busting the myth "About Devices that Can Interfere with Pacemakers".

          Danny 2, why don't you spend 5 minutes looking up serious resources about the topics that worry you? Might this not be well invested time, especially when your health is concerned? Spend more time reading and less time arguing. And please learn to identify pseudoscience when you encounter it. Just because a Doctor said something does not mean anything -- apparently there are 10 to 15 million doctors in the world and not all of them have a great scientific education.

          1. Danny 2

            Re: "...and the doctors published advice [...] not to be near a working microwave oven"

            >"or at another one busting the myth "About Devices that Can Interfere with Pacemakers"

            Hilarious epic fail!

            I linked to someone qualified who tested ovens, and you ignored that, patronised me (who actually worked with microwave comms kit as a tester) and then cited a website that produces medical jewellery - although misspelling it jewelry

            "Hope Paige Designs has fashionable medical identification bracelets and medical jewelry for cardiac patients and those with peanut allergies, diabetes, and more.

            About Us

            Hope Paige Medical ID Marketplace, mixes fashion and style with function and purpose as one of the foremost designers of contemporary medical emergency bracelets, awareness jewelry, and licensed designs. "


  9. someone called ross

    Just use these,, problem solved!

    I have a neighbour who tried to convince my wife (a research bio chemist) that these are the dog's dangly bits!

    1. Si 1

      Great find!

      Thank you, that's such a useful find, I will no longer have to go out wearing tinfoil on my head to keep the negatively charged electramowhasits from entering my brain.

      1. Clunking Fist

        Re: Great find!

        I've been turning the tinfoil inside out so that the government can't read my thoughts. I shall now add another layer, shiny side out, so that microwave rays can't get in.

    2. batfink

      I see on that link that people also bought "EMF Neutralisers" for their mobile phones. That'll be handy.

      On second thoughts, considering some of the work calls I'm on, an EMF Neutraliser might actually be a good idea...

      @El Reg - where's our tinfoil hat icon then?

      1. Dr_N

        "EMF Neutralisers"


    3. Alister

      Our Scalar Energy EMF Protection pendant can help boost your energy during the day as it is a negative ion generator that helps red blood cells to disperse and release more energy!

      Hmmm... not sure I want my blood cells to disperse, thanks, I'd rather they stay in my body, really.

      If you or your child are suffering from any of the common symptoms of EMF exposure such as headaches, chronic colds and flues, digestive disorders, sleep disturbances, anxiety, fatigue, memory loss, brain fog, dizziness, etc;

      Or asthma, eczema, st vitus dance, broken legs, deformed ears, small genitalia, delusions, paranoia or other common symptoms...

      1. Francis Boyle

        Scalar Energy

        But I've just spent a fortune upgrading to vector energy.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I bet they are as fake as the clearly photo shopped picture of two women wearing them while out drinking on the item itself.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "I bet they are as fake as the clearly photo shopped picture of two women wearing them while out drinking on the item itself."

        Really? You think?

    5. 080

      I like the one star customer review

      "They don’t tell you it’s radioactive, just watch the YouTube videos."

      1. PapaD

        Half tempted to buy one

        Just so I can leave a review

        Gotta love all the positive reviews - a lot of them are basically saying 'owning it made me feel better'

        Placebo affect ftw - though, to be fair, Placebos are the best cure for psychosomatic ailments, ask any doctor.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I recently heard about a more sophisticated technology, something to do with crystals, guns... I vaguely remember that it had something to do with chemtrails, so I'm not sure it would work for this... but you never know. No harm done, eh? :D

  10. Tempest
    Thumb Down

    Who Needs 5G In Brighton?

    Most people have handsets that can't use 5G.

    Why should the environment be blighted yet further that affects everyone for a few handset users? Britain already molly-coddles aerial software owners, especially those Tetra eyesores.

    At least further 'G's will be long time coming.

    1. Alister

      Re: Who Needs 5G In Brighton?

      especially those Tetra eyesores.

      Nice troll...

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Who Needs 5G In Brighton?

      Tetra eyesores? Are those the milk cartons you can't open without spilling some?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who Needs 5G In Brighton?

      "Most people have handsets that can't use 5G."

      Two years later.... "why doesn't my 5G handset get 5G?"

      Fortunately, obtaining planning permission for 5G towers should only take another few years after that and then lets allow another year for installation (I'm a pessimist).

  11. Alan Bourke

    Still remember the Great Late 90s Mobe Scare

    We were all supposed to be dropping from brain tumours as I recall.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      Re: Still remember the Great Late 90s Mobe Scare

      Something has to explain all the weird shit that's going on these days, mobile radiation is as good a reason as any other I've heard.

      Although my bets are on the increased stress of people being connected to the internet, along with the frustrating inability to express themselves any more without someone using their online drivel to hound them to an early grave, but that's just my opinion.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Still remember the Great Late 90s Mobe Scare

        "but that's just my opinion."

        No, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to say it's a fact.

  12. Chris G

    5G IS harmful

    Every time I read about the reasons for banning it, it makes me angry, when I'm angry I drink beer, if I drink enough of it I get a headache and a delicate stomach so it is 5G that's causing it.

    Who would have known that 5G can cause jihadism, evangelism, facism, socialism and much more.

    I would have settled for just the EHS to go with my gluten-free/lactose intolerance.

  13. hup hup hoo


    Given this will reduce economic growth, i'm sure Brighton will happily take a reduction in their block grant from Westminster?

    Anyway, aren't these scare stories related to the 60GHz mmWave band north America will be using? Most 5G here will be in existing frequencies with some small amount in the barely higher 3.5GHz band?

    1. d3vy

      Re: Well

      Dont you be coming over here with your facts trying to stop us being mental.


      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well

        I feed my daughter bananas to make sure she's sufficiently radioactive.

        1. D@v3

          Re: Well

          Gotta love the BED

  14. DenTheMan

    Radiation will be 100 times worse at ear.

    I am sticking with my tin cans and a piece of string until 2G is proven safe.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      Re: Radiation will be 100 times worse at ear.

      I've heard those cans can actually amplify the signal you know.

      1. Clunking Fist

        Re: Radiation will be 100 times worse at ear.

        My grandfather was decapitated by someone using a tin-can string comms unit. Ban them!

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Radiation will be 100 times worse at ear.

      2G is being phased out in most places. You could be waiting some time.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Brighton - Ugh!

    I work about 10 mins walk from Brighton station and I am more worried about getting typhoid or dysentery from the filthy streets and overflowing refuse bins. The place is a dump - literally; I dunno if it's some weird 'Green' recycling initiative, but many non-main streets have big communal refuse carts which end up overflowing and then accompanied by any old shit someone wants to get rid of...mattresses, old microwaves, printers, bits of wood, cardboard, curtains and miscellaneous food stuffs etc. - all ending up soaking wet and strewn across the pavement thanks to the local seagulls and human scavengers

    I'd use my cell phone to ring up the council and complain but, y'know, radiation and all that.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Brighton - Ugh!

      Not been there in quite a few years. Last time was about 10 years ago when I wasted a whole afternoon looking for The Black Chapati, only to discover that it had gone some years before.

      Is it really that bad now?

  16. Pete4000uk

    Still waiting

    for the lines of children outside doctors surgeries with headaches, rashes, hair falling out and bloaty head syndrome from the TETRA masts.

  17. ArchieTheAlbatross

    I think this sums it up perfectly

    Don't worry, perfectly safe for work, (unless you work for Brighton with Hoveactually Council), but does involve sound.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      Re: I think this sums it up perfectly

      and without the middle-scan..

  18. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    No surprise really

    Given that one of the MP's that claim to represent Brighton is from the Green Party.

    This ban will mean SFA. There will be several Hospitals clamouring to get masts put on top of their buildings alongside all manner of other junk.

    Why? For the Mulah naturally.

  19. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

    Chain Home

    Imagine if the early warning radar towers had met with this level of public objections in the late 1930s

    1. Yet Another Hierachial Anonynmous Coward

      Re: Chain Home

      But at least tin hats were readily available back then......

    2. Clunking Fist

      Re: Chain Home

      Don't you know? The government asked folk how many towers they could erect, and the response was nein.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe they are worried about gay frogs or something like that.

    1. Spasticus Autisticus

      May be worried for the gay frogs more like

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        5G radiation turning our frogs straight scandal. See tomorrows Daily Star while the Daily Mail is leading with French 5G Radiation made my children black says mum of 8 on benefits.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Local Authorities

    A while ago, I got chatting with a local councilor about planning rules for mobile phone masts. They told me that councils often reject the application for masts knowing full well that the planning inspector will overturn the rejection. The councils like to reject the planning applications as it gives the impression that they're listening to the local people and can blame the big, bad, independant planning inspector for overruling locally elected officials.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Local Authorities

      It also seems to help if the planning application comes with a sum of money which can be used by the council for their pet projects or an agreement for the applicant to just build something for the council. Which is in no way at all a bribe, because that would be bad.

      My local council was holding back planning permission for a major redevelopment until the applicant agreed to build a bypass for the town. Ended up with us not getting the redevelopment or the bypass.

      1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

        Re: Local Authorities

        There was one near me where the council said that the supermarket could only be built if the company also paid for a community center.

        One top-of-the-range community center duly appeared!

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon

          Re: Local Authorities

          Yeah, it's usually some added local services, such as a doctor's surgery - even though there won't be anyone to staff it.

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Local Authorities

        It's S106 money and perfectly standard under Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990

      3. Wicked Witch

        Re: Local Authorities

        S106 payments (and various similar provisions before and since) were there to stop the opposite problem of someone adding a big out of town shopping centre or housing estate (with no schools etc.) on a back road and expecting the council to pay for all of that.

  22. Giovani Tapini

    I thought you could mitigate all these issues

    By installing quartz crystals on street corners and putting magnets around water pipes.

    And I trust all these deployments will be Vegan friendly...

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: I thought you could mitigate all these issues

      And the hospital will use Alternative Medicine

  23. Francis Boyle

    "increased cancer risk, cellular stress, increase in harmful free radicals, genetic damages, structural and functional changes of the reproductive system, learning and memory deficits, neurological disorders and general negative wellbeing in general on humans"

    These are all real and serious problems but to be fair you can use 5G for things other than Facebook.

  24. Jimboom

    Go Brighton go!!

    But go all the way. Ban everything that uses electricity.

    That way everyone who compains about Electronic/wireless related illnesses can go there. Then when all the poor afflicted are in one place we can place hidden cameras and other wireless devices that the public can vote to turn on/up in different areas. Lets see if they really can detect said electronic's.

    Now that is one bit of reality tv I would watch.

    Maybe even take it one step further by erecting a giant faraday cage around Brighton... then randomly place weapons in it. Last person standing gets to be the king/queen of Brighton!

    1. Mike Moyle

      Re: Go Brighton go!!

      "Last person standing gets to be the king/queen of Brighton!"

      Would they be referred to as the Brightish monarchy?

    2. tony2heads

      Re: Go Brighton go!!

      Yes! - make it the steampunk centre of England!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Go Brighton go!!

      "Last person standing gets to be the king/queen of Brighton!"

      Already plenty of queens in Brighton

  25. Glennda37

    In the city that has Wireless Broadband above their head

    This is the city that has wireless broadband ISP's waves beaming around the city from the rooftops of existing tall buildings...

  26. SVV

    ban 5G until it was satisfied of its safety, as has Glastonbury in Somerset.

    They're obviously worried that it will interfere with the ley lines, and disrupt the magical "vibrations" of the healing crystals that are sold in the town's many new age hippy quack shacks.

    1. batfink

      Re: ban 5G until it was satisfied of its safety, as has Glastonbury in Somerset.

      That's a fine point SVV. Has anybody done any research on the effects that the vibrations from crystals/random positive/negative ions being emitted/absorbed by devices such as the above? Surely the potential health effects of those should be investigated as a matter of urgency, as they are clearly being sold in an uncontrolled fashion all across the country.

      Imagine the possible effects if someone mistakenly used a blue crystal instead of a green one.

      Surely we need to know, for the sake of the children who might be exposed.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ban 5G until it was satisfied of its safety, as has Glastonbury in Somerset.

      Glastonbury may currently be 5G-free but come the next festival EE and the like are going to turn up with mobile towers so that the great unwashed masses can all livestream the event to their friends who could be watching it on their HD TVs... or alternatively watching it on iPlayer because they are too stoned/too wet to leave their tent

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    5G Phone

    I guess it will change next year when people have their latest iPhone with 5G

  28. OGShakes

    If you are going to Brighton...

    Play this before you come to Brighton, its got so bad even our Zombies eat tofu brains...

  29. 's water music

    I'm no expert...

    ...but I read somewhere that 5G has electrolytes. Has anyone considered that these are what plants crave and therefore it might make sense to have more 5G masts?

  30. Jeffrey Nonken

    There's an awful lot known for a technology that's only been hastily deployed in a few select neighborhoods.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Never understood...

    Why do these "sensitive types" live in cities? It is impossible to avoid wireless networks in cities.

    Can we just ship all these loonatics off to an abandoned village in the middle of no where?

    I've done work for people like this. One example who lived in a terraced house in a dense part of the city. They insisted their new ISP Router "must have the wifi turned off". I didn't want to point out that she had six other wireless networks across her front room from her neighbours...

    1. Robert Sneddon

      Off switch

      We've got a broadband router that has Wifi. It stays switched off most of the time as it's something other folks we don't know might be able to use as an entry point to our flat's network and none of the people living here and paying for the ISP connectivity use Wifi for anything very much. When we do need it for some reason or other we can enable it via the router's handy-dandy Web interface (the IP address is but don't tell anyone!) but we switch it off afterwards.

      Quick check, a netbook I use with an external Wifi antenna can "see" thirteen Wifi devices in this block of flats, most of them Virgin or other ISP routers (at least one is a Wifi-enabled MFP).

      As for the "abandoned village" idea there was a recent news item about some anti-EMF loony who had moved her family to the Western Isles somewhere to get away from existing 3G and 4G towers in her home town and had, successfully I believe, campaigned to prevent a test 5G installation near her new location.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Off switch

        This client had a laptop - which made it more comical as I had to remove the wireless card from the laptop as well.

        How does she travel on public transport with all those scary people around her with phones and wifi and bluetooth?

        This city is run by nutters. I read that local rag website "The Argus" to have a good chuckle at the latest weird stuff in the comments. It make the Daily Mail look quite sane in comparison.

        The council seems to be run by the most clueless people around. No matter which colour is currently in charge, it is all the same madness as the same council staff are still running the system.

  32. Chris 15

    It's Brighton

    THey could all be able to communicate via Jedi Holographic projectors, given the religion split at the census...

  33. Zebo-the-Fat


    5G is at a higher frequency tan 3G or 4G, that means it will penetrate the body LESS not more, so it's actually safer. Some people need to get an education!

    1. Andrew 99

      Re: But...

      Maybe so, but there is more power required to penetrate the buildings around the mast then.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: But...

        "Maybe so, but there is more power required to penetrate the buildings around the mast then."

        The power levels are also reduced since it will require more antennas closer together. Not only will a higher frequency carry more data, more antenna sites will mean fewer users on any one site.

        Electricity costs money. If companies can put antennas on street lights that have been converted to LED and don't need all of the power the original installation was spec'd with, it's a win. They might even pay to convert the street lights instead of erecting masts and running power to them.

  34. Tom Paine

    Although the decision by Brighton was not based on ill-founded health grounds [...]

  35. ThomH

    They recently put up 5G towers in my city

    Which will not only be useful whenever I inevitably end up with a 5G mobile but have already provided me with plentiful entertainment thanks to the local weirdo who has been sticking fliers to them.

    Did you know that the smart in smartphones is actually an acronym for Secret Militarised Armaments in Residential Technology? The military, or the government, or somebody, decided they needed to put spy technology into everybody's homes, but obviously they couldn't call it spy technology so they came up with an acronym. Starting with 'Secret Militarised', because it's secret! There were three separate YouTube links offered, which sadly I did not write down, to prove it. All from the "thousands" of "scientists" worldwide that have been trying to raise awareness. I guess the military/government/George Soros/Koch Brothers/etc have really messed up with this 5G stuff though, because all they'll be able to observe is the population suffering from headaches and flu-like symptoms.

    As to the towers themselves? Basically indistinguishable from a telephone pole.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      He's not entirely wrong, there are secret listeners in residential tech - it's just not military.

      They are called Alexa, Cortana and FaceBook and people are buying and subscribing on their own.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They recently put up 5G towers in my city

      "As to the towers themselves? Basically indistinguishable from a telephone pole."

      Round here they look like lamp posts buried upside down... either that or they really are lamp post but supplied to the council by Ikea with a dodgy much-photocopied instruction sheet

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's false and mildly offensive calling people "conspiracy loons" for opposing 5G transmitters. Who is accused of conspiring? For a start the new transmitters are permitted to be over twice the height of previous masts which could make them a visible eyesore in populated areas. Since 5G signals are a shorter wavelength they cannot penetrate obstacles as effectively, hence more / taller transmitters are required to provide equivalent coverage - littering urban areas with 5G transmitters.

    When it comes to the safety of microwaves, there is much variation over what is considered a safe level of exposure in different juristictions across the world. The US / UK have much higher radiation levels permitted compared to other countries, based on short-term exposure experiments done in the 1960s-70s. Is it not wise to investigate what experimental evidence this variation in permitted power levels is based on? Perhaps some confident Reg readers would be willing guinea pigs for testing microwave exposure?

    Cancer incidents in developed nations have risen sharply in the era since radio transmitters were introduced. Brain tumor incidence in young people has also increased notably since the widespread use of mobile phones in the 1990s. Remember the inverse square law applies to EMF, so a low power transmitter against your face or a medium power transmitter next to your house can be more dangerous than a powerful transmitter further away.

    1. devTrail

      Since 5G signals are a shorter wavelength they cannot penetrate obstacles as effectively, hence more / taller transmitters are required to provide equivalent coverage

      Unless you put more transmitters around each covering a smaller area, AFAIK that was the initial idea. There's also the problem that a single transmitter covering a wide area thus serving a big number of customers could not provide each of them the promised bandwidth. I think that the root of the problem is the amount of money they want to put in the network serving Brighton.

    2. devTrail

      Cancer incidents in developed nations have risen sharply in the era since radio transmitters were introduced.

      Since radio transmitters were introduced a lot of things happened in the same time. Higher life expectancy and lower chances of dyeing by something else are one of the factors that raised the incidence of cancer cases. Plus there is chemical pollution, plus a lot of chemical additives to the food we eat today (even when the food has a lot of nice labels).

    3. FromTheRoot

      Skin cancer

      As far as I can tell, there's a direct correlation between the increase in skin cancer over the last 30 to 40 years - and cell phone masts.

      It's either the sun, which really hasn't changed much, or the cell phone towers.

      I mean it's among the first cells it hits in your body.

      I guess time will tell.

      1. batfink

        Re: Skin cancer

        Detail required. For example: Increase in skin cancer where? Is the distribution of towers the same as the distribution of skin cancers? The rate of skin cancers in Australia has been going down for years, while the phone coverage has been going up.

        All other possibilities eliminated? Has there, for example, been a reduction in people's use of sunscreen? You could also say that the world population has increased over the same period, and therefore population causes skin cancer.

        Correlation != Causation.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Skin cancer

          Also the fact that fewer people are dying of easily preventable/treatable medical conditions, so more are surviving only to die of previously rarer problems

    4. batfink

      Cancer incidents in developed nations have risen sharply in the era since radio transmitters were introduced

      It's a good thing nothing else in the world has changed since 1895, when Marconi managed to get his wireless transmission working.

      Therefore any (I note unreferenced) increase in cancers since then must be the fault of radio transmissions.

      It's a good thing El Reg is a centre of critical thinking, otherwise we'd never realise these things.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    One thing that hasn't been factored in is that the people of Brighton are basically stupid, in the same way as all of us in the UK are basically stupid. We believe any old crap that is thrown at us; TV adverts, political promises et al. The problem with Brighton (I grew up there) is that they are marginally more stupid than most and have a bit more money to indulge their stupidity.

    The great thing about mobile phones are that they are local. Bad coverage in Brighton has little if no effect in North London so go for it!

    The people I feel really sorry for are those that live near a TV transmitter. 02 uses 800Mhz for 4g. Base station power between 10 and 100 watts. Crystal Palace HD Freeview Muxes are 746Mhz at 43,100 watts and 743Mhz at 39,800 watts. (Don't tell them about the other MUXes all over 200,000 watts). They must be fried by now. Don't they realise that tin hats just focus the power on the brain centre? Oh the horror!

  38. devTrail


    I don't get it. 5G was supposed to be using smaller ubiquitous antennas, so why did they want to put 20 meters high masts? Why does the article concludes that by denying the permission for those masts the council actually banned the entire 5G network?

  39. Anonymous Coward

    Nutters on the Levels

    "as has Glastonbury and Frome in Somerset."

    Yay. I'm glowing nicely from all the radar bathing Yeovil. Looking forward to 5G gently roasting my 'nads from on top of the hospital and now the fruit and nut jobs from slightly up north have banned it, there will be more of it for us real ... errr ... men.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We were giving away free wifi on Brighton beach as far back as 2003 - we probably fried their brains with 100 mW of 802.11b wifi.

    We did publish a link to a site back then that sold chainmail under wear AKA RF proof pants. I think the site must of gone bust, i went looking for it a few years ago, for obvious reasons - pitty they might be able to capitalise

    Anonymous commenting probably won't save me from the rest Brighton crew - G'day Cobbers!

  41. earl grey

    cellular stress

    Yes, stress trying to get information into the non-working cells between their ears.

  42. James Ashton

    20-metre towers? I thought 5G implied many small transceivers rather than the big towers used by previous generations. Like 5G was going to be small antennas bolted to every tenth power pole. Part of its advantage is supposed to be that each cell is very small and so only has to serve a small number of customers. I can understand people being unhappy about the need for new 20-metre towers on the basis of visual clutter, especially if there are going to be many of them.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Agreed. But have you seen the height of Whitehawk Hill TV mast? Quite dominating on the skyline. But, and I've not been there for a while, didn't they get some sort of UFO pod ride on the seafront? I seem to recall it was a cousin of the London Eye and broke instantly.

  43. Apprentice

    I remember watching a news report a few years ago about parents protesting about how they wanted to protect their children, by banning supposedly harmful 4G masts near their school. Two of the women just off camera were smoking cigarettes right next to their kids!

    These days the protesters are more likely to be smoking weed of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > These days the protesters are more likely to be smoking weed of course.

      While protesting about energy consumption.

      They go hunting for weed farms by using infra-red cameras and spotting the houses with roofs that pretty much glow in the dark.

      1. Danny 2

        In 2013 a police helicopter crashed into a Glasgow pub, the Clutha, killing ten people. The inquiry found the tech failure, but never identified why it was flying over it in the first place.

        The very next week I witnessed a police helicopter flying over my and neighbouring flats, hovering over each for 30 seconds, and then moving on to the neighbouring flat. They were obviously searching for a heat signature linked to cannabis farms. I don't care if my neighbours smoke or grow cannabis, I just don't like the police putting my life at risk trying to track them down.

        An old feminist mantra was "Keep your laws off my body", and I think that is universal. Certainly keep your helicopters and planes away from my roof.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Given the fire danger from dodgy electrics in these places compared to the risk of a helicopter dropping out of the sky on your house... really. This kind of "Henny Penny" thinking will have people glueing themselves to the roofs of tube trains next.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          The police use the thermal camera on the helicopter for all sorts of things including searching for missing people and bodies.

          The local authority use them to find dwellings without planning permission. These are usually dodgy landlords stuffing families into barely converted sheds and garages, usually they are completely unsafe. The police have also found modern slavery cases these ways.

  44. Aussie Doc

    Me, too.

    "include headaches, concentration difficulties, sleep problems, depression, lack of energy, fatigue and flu-like symptoms"

    Yeah, I'm self-employed, too, so quite familiar with those effects.

    Oh, it's a side effect of 5G?

    Sorry, my bad.

  45. Danny 2

    Don't drink the Irn Bru

    I was working for a Scottish comms company back in the good old nineties. I won't name the name but suffice to say they are now Cisco. I was told I was the creme de la creme to be employed there, ala Miss Jean Brody. When I walked out of the interview they begged me to come back and upped my salary by 25%. I should have walked but I was flattered.

    Most of the kit we were testing and integrating was xDSL, but we had to support microwave links too. Two younger engineers, green out of Uni, left their lunch next to a microwave relay. They were freaked by their bottle of Irn Bru left next to the transmitter. Carbonated bubbles were running up the side of the bottle closest to the transmitter, and the youngsters wanted to know why. None of us had an answer beyond, "It's probably just leaking microwaves."

    They refused to work on it any more, and decided to pour their Irn Bru down the drain. I drank their Irn Bru.

    [For American readers, replace Irn Bru with 'Kool Aid']

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What is a safe level of microwave radiation?

    1W? 10W? 100W? 1000W?

    I've got a radical idea for saving energy, money and the planet. Instead of heating our homes in Winter, why not install a body-tracking microwave heater? Using infra-red tracking to monitor where you are in the room & see your current temperature, it will keep you warm by beaming just enough microwaves at you to keep your skin at a comfortable temperature. This will save lots of energy by only warming your body instead of the entire room / house. Any willing participants to take part in developing and evaluating this technology?

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: What is a safe level of microwave radiation?

      Added bonus that it will keep your chips warm too.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What is a safe level of microwave radiation?

      This has been suggested in the past, but one problem is that the air in the room will not be warmed by the microwaves (as it is by convection heating) and you will still feel cold because of the cold air against your skin. (As far as I can recall, it was a long time ago).

  47. evidence-based

    Science, not conspiracy

    What's with 'conspiracy loons'? First, this is impartial, ie poor reporting. Second, these so-called 'conspiracy loons' are in line with over 250 eminent scientists, doctors and public health experts internationally who are raising the alarm on 5G (as well as 4G and RF-EMR generally), based on robust peer-researched science. 1000s of studies show harm to DNA, nervous system, cell membranes and sperm; two huge recent studies show clear links with brain gliomas. The ICNIRP 'safety' limits are set so high that areas directly beneath powerful masts are invariably found to be below 1% of limits, according to OFCOM measurements. ICNIRP scientists have been repeatedly accused of conflicts of interest and exposed for having telecoms shares and industry funding. They cherry-pick the studies and ignore the 68% of independent studies (1000s) of them showing harm to health. WHO and PHE have been repeatedly challenged on this but ICNIRP members also form the crucial WHO and PHE members. They are non-accountable. It's always been the case that govts are loyal to industry until legal action exposes the fraud. Tobacco, glyphosate, lead, diesel and asbestos were the same. Cabled tech is far safer and does not constitute a violation of human rights or technological trespass, as the current wireless situation does. Ask yourself why no insurance company will insure against mobile radiation damage, why US congressmen and top emeritus professors are speaking out about this, why 5G is banned in Brussels and Geneva (homes to NATO, the UN and the EC), and look at the studies on Pub Med. Ask why 5G has been found by Danish lawyers to be illegal under EU law. Ask why Sydney doctors and lawyers have had masts removed on the grounds of assault. These aren't conspiracy loons, and this publication should do its research.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Science, not conspiracy

      The woo is strong in this one ... I suspect that invoking Formosa's Law would be best.

    2. rebroad

      Re: Science, not conspiracy

      I agree. This article has convinced me to unsubscribe from this publication after having been a reader since it started.

  48. finlaythethinker

    Definitely not loons

    Scientific experts have studied the biological effects of wireless pulsed microwave exposure for decades. Negative effects were noticed in the 1940's, and have been confirmed ever since. The wireless industry wishes to ignore the science in order to profit from the ignorance of so many. Current Exposure Standards supposedly protective to human health are based on avoidance of over heating of tissue, nothing else. The damaging biological effects, such as DNA damage (root cause of cancer) are seldom mentioned in the main stream media. The push to 5G will not end well. Anyone in doubt of why wireless technology is unhealthy to life should investigate the findings of Dr. Rory Glazer (US Navy researcher over 50 years ago) or read the findings of Dr. Martin Pall and other non-industry researchers. Even children in school have shown that exposure of cress seeds to wireless radiation will kill them. Never mind all the industry hype about how great 5G will be. It will use parts of the electromagnetic spectrum the military already use for Active Denial (painful crowd control) Systems. We are all being dumbed down however possible to think wireless is wonderful (cell phones, smart meters, laptops etc.). As electrical beings now experiencing rapidly increasing rates of leukemia, autism, rare brain cancers and so on it should be fairly easy to conclude something is not quite right letting our cells be bombarded billions of times per second by pulsed microwaves. Male sperm quality is now half of what it previously once was, and some researchers already state human extinction is only a few generations away unless the insanity of the 1930's Technocrat's Dream is brought to a rapid halt. Do your own research instead of assuming those trying to educate you are just another bunch of "Conspiracy Loons".

    1. Col_Panek

      Re: Definitely not loons

      Thanks for the cut&paste from the echo chamber of looney. Every time I try to chase down one of the claims, it turns up bullshit. Active Denial? That's way higher power than 5G.

      Oh, you forgot to mention "those birds that died in Holland in a 5G test". Bullshit.

      1. finlaythethinker

        Re: Definitely not loons

        Surprising you have so much trouble using a search engine, but to make things easy for you here is a link to Dr. Pall's findings:

        You should be able to find lots more valid information before resorting to your childish "bullshit" response, but that's entirely up to you..

      2. finlaythethinker

        Re: Definitely not loons

        Oh, by the way, research has also discovered that damaging biological effects can occur at all levels of power, mainly due to the frequency and pulse. There really is NO SAFE EXPOSURE LEVEL from the man made pulsed electrosmog. Nature provides the Schumann resonance, which is non pulsed and non damaging. Did you ever suspect that perhaps the Liily wave behaviour control technology is being used on you? Best do more research before assuming you actually know what is going on.

  49. rebroad

    Unsubscribed thanks to this ridiculous article.

    Been a subscriber of theregister for years, but with this unnecessarily biased article, I think it's time to unsubscribe.

  50. HelpfulJohn Bronze badge

    If it is visual aesthetics that are being complained about, disguise the things as trees; paint the mast brown and cover it with plasticcy, wood-looking stuff, paint the dishes green and fill in the space between them with leafy plastics.

    If it's EM-radiation causing mass cancers and idiocy that are the issue (and this is possibly evidenced in the public by mass idiocy caused by EM waves generated by that huge radioactive radiation source in the sky. *Something* must be causing the current rash of tree-huggers and road-blockers) the Council could just pass a by-law coercing the installers to offer protective aluminium foil hats and undies to all citizens. With Al being cheap, that shouldn't cost much more than 1% of a single mast.

    Or, as a Fantasy, SF solution that will never be politically viable, we *could* always educate the daft buggers. It would be nice if a modicum of critical thinking was tested for before a citizen was permitted to vote ....... or to breed.

    1. finlaythethinker

      Rebroad might be right.

      For readers of The Register, a varied assortment of people who should be technically competent in at least understanding the basic difference between pulsed versus non-pulsed microwave radiation, most of the comments have shown little understanding of what those against 5G are trying to warn the public of. Calling people loons does nothing when all they have done is try to educate the misinformed. The Sun does radiate Earth but that radiation is not pulsed billions of times a second. Man is responsible for creating unnatural pulsed microwave radiation . Granted, the transmitters are mostly visible but the invisible radiation is not. Pulsed microwaves can only be measured by instruments designed to detect it. It is unlikely that "aluminium foil hats and undies" would do anything other than show what an idiot you are. Hollywood movies such as "The Terminator" show what could possibly happen when AI systems eventually become SkyNet and humans are no longer required. With recent advances in neural control and current plans to beam 5G down from more than 20,000 satellites above IMHO it is time to seriously reconsider where current technology is taking us. Also, If you still use a cell phone to damage your brain unknowingly, read about "Phonegate". Maybe the wireless industry cellphone radiation testing methods were correct in assuming all users had plastic heads. That would explain why so many out there still refuse to accept what the so called "loons" already know as they try to educate as many as possible..

  51. Bob Whitcombe

    No 5G, Brexit - what next Coal?

    It is clear that Trump will have a lovely retirement village in Brighton. Obviously if they object to pulsed microwave radiation - then neither 4G, 3GPP or 2G signals are safe. Guess then new employment model will be scribes and runners to fetch messages. Clearly Brighton will become a very safe "No Social Media Zone". Not sure what they are going to do with telly broadcasts. Take down those antennae now.

    1. ChrisLip

      Re: No 5G, Brexit - what next Coal?

      We are not opposing technology or social media. It just needs to be safe. 5G has been developed for the military as a Direct energy weapon and is used for active denial. Please consider this because once this kill grid is in place with civilians are considered potential combatants there is no turning back from a totalitarian technocratic world government.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  52. beachmunkey

    A Little Knowledge

    I had to smile at Totnes refusing these towers... Totnes is in Devon, not far from Dartmoor, and Devon as a whole has the highest level of background radiation (ionising) in the country..

  53. ChrisLip

    Schools must now cover themselves from liabilities of Wifi and Smartphone harm

    I am write to make you aware of the PHE Guideline update regarding WIFI and Smartphones in schools. Due to the increased number of childhood illness including cancer and autism and pressure from campaign groups such as; Stop5G UK, SaveUsNow and 5G Awareness, PHE have been forced to revise their advise on child safety.

    The precautionary principal must now be adhered to. You must act now to avert potential legal to claims of liability similar how all safety standards such as school playground critical fall height (rubber depth) BS EN 1177 standard need to be complied with to be covered from liability. Private prosecutions can now be made for neglect of loco parentise and the causing harm should an illnesss be identified as a direct cause of EMF. The installation of telecom towers from this point forth may also lead to prosecution of assault.

    Please note that your local councils may also be subject to prosecution in cases to be brought Mark Steele verse Gatehead Council this year 2020. Lloyd's of London excludes coverage for RF/EMR claims.

    A sample risk assesment can be seen here:

    All Internet of things wireless devices be removed from the school or wireless disabled. Computers to be ethernet cabled via wall or under floor conduit. children's smart phones not to brought to school otherwise switched off and kept safe in school office. Electrics to be sheilded and checked to meet safe levels via EMF meter.

    Stay safe, health and informed.

  54. shoutyrepeater

    Love the cleverly worded article - some great journalism. Completely belittles anyone shouting about the health effects whilst also listing a lot of the genuine researchable concerns for anyone wanting to look it up. Keeps the brand happy, but also spreads the health concerns in a suble way.

    Anyways... is 5g far worse than 4g and 3g? No, not yet. Not massively anyway.

    Is microwave radiation harmful? Lots of studies coming out that show the long term health effects can be damaging. Increased brain cancer. Increased risk to children. Increase in immuno-related diseases possibly caused by oxidating stress. Lower reproduction. Etc. Check out some scientists who talk about it rather than accepting some nerd on the internet. Dr Martin Pall is a good place to start. Look for harmful effects of non ionising radiation.

    Anyway back to 5g. 5g is a group of frequencies, not 1 specific thing. in the UK its gonna start at 3.6Ghz. thats already been licenced out by ofcom. And later theyll sell off higher frequencies. 5g can go all the way up to close to 100Ghz. Its these higher frequencies that are the concern. Look up what happens to oxygen when hit with 60Ghz frequencies. Look up what happens to water vapour at 24Ghz. Look up military tests on from the 60s on how frequencies can be used to affect peoples mood (hint: they use this frequency range) ...

    And then the last thing is , yes microwave radiaton has causes some damage to people. not enough for the world to put their phones away or turn off their wifi. but some. and so by installing the many millions of 5g antennas that will be needed when 5g starts being rolled out at the higher frequencies (because the higher the frequency, the shorter its range) , then the closer everyone is to the masts and the increase in radiation will be unavoidable. no thanks jeff.

    feel free to argue me down - but to keep it fun , you have to use facts that can be referenced. ok go.....

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