back to article Just what we all needed, lactose-free 'beer' from northern hipsters – it's the Vegan Sorbet Sour

Beer o'clock starts at 4pm today at Leeds-based North Brewing Co's tap room where it will be launching a sour beer that "pushes the boundaries of taste, flavour and colour". Forget your hoity-toity cloudy lemon ales from Holland; this one's a manly bright pink and made in Yorkshire. The Vegan Sorbet Sour is brewed with …

  1. israel_hands

    To quote the missus "I'm not putting that in my mouth."

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      To quote the two Mrs Ws: "remind me again why I drink gin?"

  2. Blockchain commentard

    Missed a trick with the ice cream makers - should have flavoured it rhubarb and custard.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Except for the lactose-free requirement. And please don't tell me there's such a thing as a vegan custard, because if it didn't come from an animal, it ain't milk, and if you didn't use milk, it's not custard, so there.

      1. Geoff May (no relation)

        Vegan Custard

        Unfortunately, such a thing exists :-(

        Uses semolina and soy milk.

        1. AMBxx Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Custard

          Finally - we've reached peak vegan. I wonder what it will be next.

        2. MiguelC Silver badge

          Re: Uses semolina and soy milk.

          soy milk beverage

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Custard

          As the A/C says, it ain't custard. And shouldn't real custard also require egg?

          1. Graham Dawson Silver badge

            Re: Vegan Custard

            No, real custard uses Birds, not eggs.

            1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

              Re: Vegan Custard

              You've taken me from custard to disgusted.

        4. bombastic bob Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Custard

          ew, I'm tasting bile now, just from the thought of it.

      2. Ben Tasker

        > if it didn't come from an animal, it ain't milk

        Does this count? Or at least get an honorary?

      3. obiwanconobi

        I'm guessing you're over 40?

        1. Blockchain commentard

          yep - and I remember Rhubarb and Custard the cartoon series on TV as well !!!!!

      4. dajames

        ...and if you didn't use milk, it's not custard, so there.

        ... and, more to the point, if you don't use eggs it ain't custard.

        (According to SWMBO, anyway ... I quite like the Birds stuff ...)

        1. David Paul Morgan

          ISTR Mr Bird invented his cornflour custard because his wife couldn't eat eggs.

          the rest, as they say, is history.

          make it with soy or almond 'milk' and it's still custard :-)

      5. Trixr

        "Milk" has been used in English for centuries to refer to milk-like substances. Are you going to rename milkweed and dandelion milk as well?

        What do you call coconut milk now? Soy milk has been fine for decades. If anyone can demonstrate an instance of an averagely-intelligent person not understanding coconut/soy/whatever milk doesn't actually contain milk from a mammal, I'd be very interested in seeing it.

        1. Charles 9

          "What do you call coconut milk now?"

          Coconut juice, as I'm reading from a can of the stuff in front of me.

          "Soy milk has been fine for decades."

          Past performance does not guarantee future results. Language does get tightened now and then.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The proper names for food are distinctive terms that reflect the properties , chemistry, and techniques used to create them.

        It may be called vegan custard but it is not custard.

        There's a difference between what things are and what they're called for marketing purposes.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          but it is not custard

          In much the same way as mycelium-derived textured protein isn't meat. And no, you really, really can't have Quorn beefburger since they don't contain beef.

      7. Vincent Ballard

        Are you not going to complain about the concept of vegan ice-cream?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Why? Isn't it an oxymoron to put "vegan" and "cream" in the same name? Besides, if vegans want something like that cold, they can always enjoy a fruit sorbet (a true sorbet, unlike a sherbet, has no dairy in it).

    2. Sgt_Oddball

      That would be one of the others...

      Northern monk (based in the city of Leeds as well) did that as one of their "don't mess with Yorkshire" beers. T'was a nice beer too, they have also done a pineapple and ginger beer called 'grannies mix'.

      Also worth noting the North brewing team have already done a tap take over in the tate modern with a triple fruited gose co-lab.

      I do however wonder what made this beer in particular caught the eye of Mr. Dabbs?

      Tramp icon because I always feel so poor after buying this months releases...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like an ideal post Brexit brew ...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whatever that drink is, it is NOT beer. In the same way that various fruit and flower based "teas" are NOT tea.

    Water, malted barley, hops and yeast. That's all you need.

    1. Kubla Cant

      It's not English beer, for sure. But the fruited beers of Belgium have an ancient heritage and a reasonably grown-up taste.

      1. Tom 7

        But they are flavoured beers not flavoured water like this is.

        1. Cederic Silver badge

          My Belgian friends were greatly amused when I started drinking the cherry flavoured beer as a preference. Apparently you're meant to drink it as a display of your sexual preferences, not because you think it tastes nice.

          1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

            Can you point us to a handy beer <=> sexual preference look-up table so we can plan our weekend's drinking for some extra fun?

            1. Ken 16 Silver badge

              The ones I drink indicate a sexual preference of a few days later

      2. Grikath

        Ummm the belgian fruit beers start with beer.. Quite solid stuff alcohol-wise as well.. In which then fruit is soaked ( traditionally the sour cherries they call "krieken" ), originally to preserve it, the added taste to the beer is a bonus.

        Later the added-flavour thing was done with fruit juice added to the still-quite-potent beer. Mort Subite ( sudden death ) and Verboden Vrucht ( forbidden fruit ) come to mind as well-known brands. Handle with care, they tend to trip up the unwary..

        I don't know what to call the unholy concoction featured in the article, but beer it is not, nor would it be allowed to be called that in the civilised parts of the mainland. ( The uncivilised parts deal with this hipster shyte in a more time-honoured and more terminal way...)

        1. Chris Parsons

          And as an aside, The Mort Subite in Brussels is one of the best bars in the world.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          belgian fruit beers start with beer..

          T'missus quite likes one of the fruit-flavoured Belgian beers sold by our local emporium - I haven't drawn her attention to the ABV figue on the label..

          Mind you, she tends to go to sleep after about half a bottle - being somewhat of an alcohol lightweight. Unlike myself and my nephew - as the recycling box indicates after he's been staying for the weekend.

    2. Mage Silver badge

      Vegan Beer

      Unless you are using mysterious processing and ingredients to "clarify" or "remove sediment", most beers are vegan.

      I thought a beer / ale / stout as minimum is a malted grain (almost any grain is possible, not just barley), yeast and water. Hops is an almost modern innovation and actually optional.

      Almost anything with carbohydrate (sugars) can be fermented, though not all fermentation is alcoholic. However being alcoholic doesn't make it be a "beer". This sounds more like a thickened wine? It's absolutely not beer.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Vegan Beer

        Finings aren't mysterious. And there are several vegan options[0], as I discovered back when I dated a vegan and thought that clarified beer was somehow important. (Hey, I was in my late teens / early 20s once!)

        [0] I settled on Irish Moss after testing a couple of different options.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Beer

          > most beers are vegan

          Unlike cider (the rats give it flavour)

          1. Ken Shabby

            Re: Vegan Beer

            Would you like a twist of lemming sir?

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Vegan Beer

              The lemming twist is only used for Brew Dog's The End of History, as any fule no.

              If you go ogle this at work, be sure to do it out of view of vegans, namby-pambys, hand-wringers, animal rights advocates, and other idiots who can't take a joke.

          2. Ken 16 Silver badge

            Re: Vegan Beer

            It depends what they've been eating, doesn't it

          3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: Vegan Beer

            Unlike cider (the rats give it flavour)

            I have an old Devon recipe for making beer which requires adding 1/4 of a chicken for each 10 gallons of beer. Helps it to clear apparently.

            The title is "Cock Ale"

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Vegan Beer

              I've made Cock Ale, it's actually drinkable ... Translating the recipe into more modern terms: First you brew a strong ale (your choice), to make ten gallons. Next, boil a cock (old rooster works well for this!). Bust the boiled bird up with a mortar and pestle (food processor), bones & all. Stick the result into a fine cheesecloth bag with some mace (I use three or four flakes) and cloves (I use 8), and some mashed dates and raisins, about 8oz each. Soak the lot in a couple quarts of fortified wine (I use a young (cheap) version of Oloroso), until the ale is ready to come out of the primary. Discard the bird+spice bag, and decant the fortified wine into the secondary with the ale, discarding the sediment. Allow to sit and clarify for a couple weeks/month(s) before bottling. It's ready to drink after 6 or 8 months in the botttle at cellar temperature (42F, plus or minus).

              The added sugar from the raisins & dates makes for a bit more fermentation in the secondary. The gelatin from the bird seems to work as finings to clarify the brew. You can't taste the chicken in the final product, but the head is affected (more protein) (the head is minimal, but there). You can leave out the mace and clove.

              Frankly, while the end result is usually quite drinkable, I don't find it to be worth the effort ... I make it once in a while (eight times in 30 years) just to blow people's minds.

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Beer

          "back when I dated a vegan"

          Ha ha ha ha... oh you were SERIOUS? Let me laugh even HARDER!!

          (yeah I saw that on a demotivational)

      2. Trixr

        Re: Vegan Beer

        Bollocks. Many (most?) beers are clarified with gelatin, casein, albumen or isinglas. These are not vegan.

        Personally, I don't care, but if you don't want a hint of animal product, none of those will be suitable for vegans.

        Casein is also a milk byproduct, and it's in common use. I think it's a bit silly to brand your beer as being "lactose free" rather than just including the fact somewhere on the label, and of course the actual percentage of lactose would be negligable in the final result. But I don't have a milk allergy so I don't know how serious trace amounts might be. Yes, it's mostly a branding exercise, but who cares? At least it's not like "low calorie water" in terms of being representing something that is not a "thing".

        1. Spamfast

          Re: Vegan Beer

          Many (most?) beers are clarified with gelatin, casein, albumen or isinglas.

          You're probably right, commercially speaking. But it's not mandatory.

          Copper finings.

          Or if you're into mineral rights I'm told certain types of seaweed work.

          Still pretty vegan as far as I can see.

          Not a vegan myself and do occassionally get tired of the proseletizing ones (same as any religion) but I don't really understand from where the hatred comes.

          Each to their own.

          In my case, mostly veg but with the occassional bacon buttie.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Vegan Beer

          percentage of lactose would be negligable in the final result

          Fun feline Fact of the day:

          A lot of cats become lactose-intolerant, just like quite a few humans do. So various vendors produce Cat Milk which, despite its title, isn't milk harvested from cats [1] but is rather ordinary cows milk with the lactose removed.

          It also has taurine [2] added as well as a few other cat-specific suppliments. Out of our 7 cats, three can tolerate regular cows' milk and 4 can't and so get offered cat milk.

          [1] Doing that would be a fairly high-risk endeavour without appropriate PPE [3]

          [2] Cats require taurine but don't produce it themselves but get it from their prey. Modern cat food contains added taurine. 'Vegan' cat food [4] didn't at first and cats fed on that went blind.

          [3] Not the utterly useless degree from Oxbridge which seems to be the only degree needed to get to high office in government.

          [4] If vegans were that dedicated to not having animals killed for their convenience maybe they shouldn't select as a pet an animal that is a primary carnivore and that has to eat meat in order to be healthy. Maybe get a hamster instead? Although those have been known to eat meat in the wild.. (as do most pure herbivores - especially when breeding. Admittedly, only in very small quantites and only under very specific circumstances)

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Vegan Beer

            "A lot of cats become lactose-intolerant"

            You do know that "milk" is built for baby bovines, not your adult cats, right? Unless you can show me where bovines nurse felines "in the wild", of course.

            Spot on about idiots trying to feed carnivores a vegan diet. I;ve listened to some pretty wild convoluted bullshit trying to justify the mistreatment of their supposedly "loved" pets. I view such stupidity as proof that a purely vegan diet rots the human brain.

      3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Vegan Beer

        most beers are vegan

        Except the ones that use isinglass as a fining agent.. It's made from fish cartilage.

        Which means that most cask-conditioned beers and ales are out for vegans and/or vegetarians (depending on which of the strains you are).

    3. Mark 85

      Water, malted barley, hops and yeast. That's all you need.

      Exactly. Real beer is already lactose free. On the other hand, the terminally hip will drink anything that's labeled with buzzwords.

      1. Muppet Boss

        They should have added soy meat, it is not fully vegan without soy meat

        1. Sgt_Oddball

          Wrong beer...

          You're thinking of Guinness...

      2. Muscleguy

        I was initially confused by the lactose. I have brewed my own and currently make my own Lactose free Ice Creams and Sorbets* so I understand the processes.

        I suspect they use lactose so it won’t be ‘worked on’ by the yeast.

        I’m not susceptible to hipster beers. They are acting like nobody ever brewed anything before they were hatched or tried stuff. Spare me the hair shirt ‘triple hopped’ things. They are seriously unbalanced brews.

        I’m also partial to a good Belgian fruit beer now and again. I’ve even made an ice cream with one.

        *Currently I have a white choc ice cream with raspberry ripple (from fresh berries) and a blackberry sorbet is in the works. I’ll give you a tip for free, you can make a rocquefort ice cream and it will taste strange on its own, but pair it with anything apple: pie, crumble or just stewed and the combination is absolutely sensational.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, teas made with flowers and fruits /are/ teas and beer doesn't require hops at all

      Just because your opinion is wrong doesn't change the fact.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: made with flowers and fruits

        At bit pedantic:

        They are herbal infusions unless based on Camellia Sinensis. There are real teas with added fruit, blossoms or spices, they have Camellia Sinensis as the main ingredient. Many herbal infusions actually have Hibiscus as the main base, even if not in the branding. Wikipedia seems to use "tea" for herbal beverages with no Camellia Sinensis in them, so perhaps it's OK in the USA to call them teas, though nowadays most herbal infusions in Irish & UK shops do have "Tea" in the name.

        It's true that beer doesn't need hops. Both dandelion and also burdock were used before hops, or nothing at all extra.

        1. Spamfast

          Re: made with flowers and fruits

          made with flowers and fruits

          Why do anarchists drink fruit tea? ....

          Because proper tea is theft.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You're thinking..

      Of German beers. Even then, the German purity laws aren't.

      Alot of damn fine beers use oats in the grist these days and wheat is no stranger. As for your 'traditional malt, yeast, hops and water', North brewing do plenty of them upto and including a beer that managed to hit 18.6% abv.

      The things they could teach you about using hops would boggle the traditionalist back to the 70's.

      (also worth noting the Gose beers tend to be purchased by the fairer sex which is maybe where all the indignation is coming from?).

      Anon because I'm going to be down voted anyway.

      1. Kimo

        Re: You're thinking..

        Wheat and rye are OK because they can all be malted, just like barley.

        1. Spamfast

          Re: You're thinking..

          I'd still rather drink German lager than British.

          The Reinheitsgebot has been blamed for stiffling variety but these days getting an exception for a (God help us) "craft" beer is fairly straightforward.

          It does mean you know what you're getting though, rather than the "under license" swill that comes out of Dorchester or wherever.

          In winter in the UK I do prefer a decent bitter though.

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: You're thinking..

        damn fine beers use oats in the grist these days

        And some vagely passable [1] beers use rice.

        [1] To my shame I actually like the US Budweiser beer. Largely because it's utterly inoffensive and has just a mild nutty flavour. And doesn't give me headaches.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: You're thinking..

          Don't think of Bud as beer. Think of it as preserved water. I find a tall can of bud light in he shower after a long, hot day of mowing (or other ranch work) to be quite refreshing. No residual sugars, no sticky mouth feel, no off flavo(u)rs, not too much carbonation, no alcohol to speak of (it's actually 4.2%, Bud is 5%) ... Don't get me wrong, I'm glad real beers/ales exist! But the cheep & cheerful American lagers have their place, too.

          1. Charles 9

            Re: You're thinking..

            Which is why they're so popular in America. Just recall: America is a lot hotter than Europe, especially in the summer. Most won't care if it's close to water; so long as it isn't actually water; they just wanna cool off and get a buzz.

            And PS. If you think the big brand names are close to water, you might want to stay away from the thought experiment which is low-point beer (as in 3.2% ABV)...or worse, near-beer (attempts to have all the taste but none of the alcohol--most are held in low regard).

    6. Amentheist

      Depends on the process of producing the alcohol that's what makes it beer. I've a mate who made 52% alc beer, wasn't wiskey as he used the same principle of brewing as beer.

      Icon: for the sugar hangover from all that fruit stuff

      1. jake Silver badge

        A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

        Last time I checked, the most tolerant strain of yeast topped out at just under 30% before suiciding on their own alcohol ... You can add things to the mash to force the yeast higher than that (potassium salts come to mind), but the results aren't drinkable, and are primarily used for biofuel.

        The only way to get past this natural block is distillation of one form or another. Most brewers of ultra-high alcohol "beers" use fractional distillation by crystallization ...

        1. Charles 9

          Re: A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

          Eisbocks (ice beers), IOW. Stuff like Tactical Nuclear Penguin is usually jacked (freeze-distilled). The best known super-strong all-fermented beer is Samuel Adams Utopias (from an American craft brewer). Their custom yeast IINM tops out at about 25% ABV.

          1. Rol

            Re: A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

            It was my investigations into freeze distillation that uncovered my ignorance of methanol. An ignorance that has been allowed to perpetuate throughout the population and at times encouraged by vested parties.

            Distillation does not create dangerously toxic alcohol. A fermented brew will have no more methanol in it after distillation than it started with, and if you discard the first lot of vapours coming off the brew, you will end up with less methanol, as it boils at a slightly lower temperature than ethanol.

            And so a 2 litre carton of supermarket plonk can be placed in a domestic freezer and the unfrozen alcohol drained off leaving the frozen water behind. The result having exactly the same ratio of good to bad alcohol that was in the wine to start with. Connoisseur brandy it will not be, but it's marginally better than Brut 33/Old Spice/lighter fuel.

            It's obvious when you think about it, but the industry and health bodies are quite happy to have us believe distillation is somehow dangerous, when in actual fact, it is the fermentation process where the most care needs to be taken.

            1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

              Re: A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

              True, methanol is not created by distillation, etc, but by something seriously wrong with what you started out with.

              But anther very important point is you can't separate methanol and ethanol by distillation beyond a certain point, so if you have something that was tainted with methanol (.e.g methylated spirits) you might get rid of the colour and majority of taste by distallation, but it will still be toxic.

            2. Muscleguy

              Re: A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

              New Zealand a couple of decades ago abolished strictures against home distilling. By accident and there hasn’t been an epidemic of methanol poisoning.

              What happened was that during a government economy drive Customs and Excise offered up the still inspection regime as a ‘we’re trying’ attempt to not have to cut anything but govt took them seriously and it went. The main thrust was things like the water still we had in the lab during my PhD. Two in fact for single and double distilled H2O. They had lead seals on them so we couldn’t drain them and put hooch in there. Once a year the inspector would come, check the old seals with intact and put new ones on with the new date.

              Home distilling fell out of savings from stopping that and home brew shops in NZ stock a range of home all in one stills, and methanol test kits. But home brew is pretty common and brewers know how not to screw up.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: A traditional brew with 52% alcohol?

          is distillation of one form or another

          OldestBrother tried freeze-distillation of his home-made wiine at one point and got to a reasonable (40%?) ABV. It was a load of faff and he gave up in the end.

          He tried it because it was the only legal distillation method not requiring a license.

      2. Sgt_Oddball

        That would chilled to remove the water, brewdog have a number of beers they've used this technique on (the Dutch and Germans have started to play with this as well).

        1. Kimo

          Pennsylvania Dutch traditionally left cider out to freeze to make a concentrated version.

          1. Charles 9

            And you wonder where the term "applejack" came from.

      3. Stork

        Don't you miss a decimal point there?

        Generally, yeasts start getting dizzy by their own output when it reaches the late teens which is probably why you rarely find wines much over 15% (the local does one at 17%, yummy).

        You may get higher, but is it drinkable

        1. James R Grinter

          Brodies’ Elizabethan

          Was officially 22%, though when it was still being drunk a few years later it’s hard to say. It was very nice, though.

          Stuart Howe, then of Sharps, did brew his Turbo Yeast Abomination from Hell,, I did get to try some but I don’t remember what it’s final gravity was.

    7. Barry Rueger

      In the same way that various fruit and flower based "teas" are NOT tea.

      Lord yes!! Although after a couple of weeks touring China I'm now thinking that pretty much nothing sold in Canada qualifies as "tea."

      Still, Yorkshire Gold will do in a pinch.

    8. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Sour ales are great, quit your whining.

    9. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      various fruit and flower based "teas" are NOT tea

      Actually - the term 'tea' precedes the use of dried/fermented leaves of Camellia Sinensis steeped in hot water. It is simply defined as vegetain steeped in hot water".

      So tea is a subset of the tea class. Your assertion fails.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can you dip a vegan sausage roll in it?

    I'm not turning vegan till they can produce a kebab you can consume after lots of alcohol that gives your mouth the same "Did I lick the weatherspoons pub carpet last night for a bet?" feeling in the morning.

    1. macjules

      A vegan kebab is one where they can tell that you are completely legless so they don't put any meat in it.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Vegan kebab isn't bad but they don't have much fat on them and you have to pick out the peircings

    2. Sgt_Oddball

      That would be..

      Donner Summer (Street food purveyors also local to the North of England).. And regulars of the various local brewery tap days.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      vegan kebab

      I have a meat eating friend who swears by the vegan kebab stuff from Sainsbury's. But yeah, for the real experience it needs to be meat of unknown origin.

      I think that's why he prefers the vegan stuff, he's confident what's in it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Unknown Origin.

        My local Kebab shop has a sign up showing their kebab meat is genetically tested. No notes of rats. So while "mystery" I know it's edible!

        1. Rol

          Re: Unknown Origin.

          My local kebab shop has laminated copies of the kebab's driving license and O level passes in maths and woodwork hung in the window.

          1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

            Re: kebab's driving license and O level passes in maths and woodwork hung in the window

            I've got this vision of them using the kebab grill in the same way as a woodworker's lathe.

        2. TimMaher Silver badge

          Re: Unknown Origin.


          Anybody seen Phil the Greek in the neighbourhood?

    4. Ken Shabby

      I assure you, the gorilla will still follow you home. Throw all your clothes out of the wardrobe and crap in your mouth.

      1. jake Silver badge

        If you're into that kind of thing ...

        ... I suppose that would be the gorilla your dreams, no?

  6. jake Silver badge

    Thick as a smoothie & sour?

    Yeah, I had a failed brew like that once, too. I didn't have the cojones to sell it to Millennials and hipsters, though. Tip o' t' flat-cap for their audacity, but as we all know by this time next year everybody will have forgotten that it ever existed.

    1. Wellyboot Silver badge

      Re: Thick as a smoothie & sour?

      with any luck.

    2. Muscleguy

      Re: Thick as a smoothie & sour?

      It will be a summer beer. Making a 2.5-3% light beer for summer is not an easy thing as the lack of malt to keep it light and the alcohol low makes it hard to balance. I’ve had a few unbalanced versions and only a couple of good ones.

      Stuff like this is easier than trying to brew a proper beer. One of my favourite brewers is Harviestoun of Alloa. Every one of their brews is very good. Their Schiehallion Pilsner is fantastic on a hot day and their Old Engine Oil Porter on a cold one or in a slow cooked oxtail stew.

  7. Rich 11 Silver badge

    we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.


    1. Portlandia vermite

      Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.


      1. Ken Shabby

        Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.


    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.

      Cheeks as your rage builds at the thought of these bloody snowflakes daring to make something that you don't consider right?

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.

        That's not rage, sabroni. That's laughter. Project much?

    3. Muscleguy

      Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.

      That is not as far fetched as it might seem since it has fruit in it. The most common sugar in the substance is in fact fructose and since we cannot make it the male body squirrels fructose from the diet away to the prostate.

      So eat your fruit guys.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.

        since we cannot make it the male body squirrels fructose from the diet away to the prostate

        There is so much fail in that post that I can hardly think about where to start:

        1. In general, the human body doesn't make any of the sugars (absent some very specfic conditions). What it does do is take the carbohydrates that you eat and, eventually, break them down into glucose that then gets stored - either in the liver (stored as glycogen) or the muscles and fat.

        2. Fructose, being one of the simple sugars, gets stored in the liver in the same way as glucose does. Table sugar is generally a compund of glucose and fructose. As the name suggests, the primary source of fructose is fruit (although it's also contained in honey). It's sweeter than glucose - which is why it's used a lot in foods in the US (the dreaded 'high fructose corn syrup'). Over consumption is directly indicated in some forms of T2 diabetes. It also has no taste other than being sweet. Any fruit flavours come from the organic volatiles and oils rather than the fructose (which only gives sweetness).

        In short - maybe learn something about human biology *before* displaying your ignorance quite so publically?

        1. Spamfast

          Re: we rely upon readers to tell us what colour it turns your, er, you know.

          There is so much fail in that post that I can hardly think about where to start

          Dead on. Glad you posted to save me having to.

          One additional point. Fructose (and sucrose - table sugar) can be metabolized and can have the same negative effects as glucose on the body but our pancreases don't react to it in the same way as glucose. To see why this is a problem, read the article on WebMD.

          Eating fruit is good for you in moderation because the levels of sugar are low compared to those in processed food and fruit has lots of other benefits. But just because fructose has Latin for fruit in it doesn't make it healthier than sucrose or glycose.

  8. chivo243 Silver badge


    Beer O'Clock, but not with that stuff... geesh.

    Beer icon as an example of what beer looks like

  9. JohnFen

    I would have said that differently

    "pushes the boundaries of taste, flavour and colour".

    When I read that, I can't help but think it's code for "this stuff is disgusting".

    I don't know if it is or not (and I can't drink beer or wine anyway -- I have to stick with liquor), but that's how the copy reads to me.

    1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Re: I would have said that differently

      Some sour styles can be an acquired taste, it's true (unsweetened lambics, anyone?) but the ones with fruit in them are usually very drinkable, especially in hot weather. Imagine the acidity a dry champagne but with more body.

  10. Kubla Cant

    There are hipsters in Leeds drinking thick pink beer*.

    Surely the end of the world is at hand.

    * Reminiscent of the Private Eye expression "a player of the pink oboe", but I can't quite make the joke work.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "There are hipsters in Leeds"

      Comers-in. Obviously.

  11. knarf

    Hmmmm.... I've a forest of Rubarb ..

    Its a monster 4 feet high and sure it makes a clicking sound. Might give this brew a try, Sure it will be Triffic

    1. Mark 85

      Re: Hmmmm.... I've a forest of Rubarb ..

      Maybe feed this fake beer to your plant buddy? He/she might like it.

  12. Arthur the cat Silver badge

    lactose-free alternatives for thickening their fruited sour beers

    What do they normally use? Milk? Cream? Cheese FFS‽

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: lactose-free alternatives for thickening their fruited sour beers

      Relax. The thickener is just fruit pulp.

      The "lactose free" thing comes from the idiots not knowing where the lactobacillus (one of the bugs that sours the beer) comes from. It's all about marketing, and playing on the fears of the ignorant. Kinda like religion, no?

  13. N2

    I'm off

    For a nice juicy steak tonight and what ever comes with it

    Just so long as theres nothing bl**dy vegan

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: I'm off

      Chips are vegan. Unless you do them in beef dripping of course, but nobody does nowadays.

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: "Chips are vegan"

        fry them in *duck fat*


      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: I'm off

        I fry mine in pork fat. It's part of my "everything but the oink, and we're working on that" philosophy.

        Agree that duck fat is tasty for chips (both Brit and Yank meaning of chip!). Unfortunately, I rarely have several gallons of the stuff, so I use it more as a finishing oil. Try drizzling it on steak instead of butter or blue cheese ...

      3. Cederic Silver badge

        Re: I'm off

        Lard. Good proper lard.

        Why yes, women do scream in horror when they see the pan. Hasn't stopped a single one of them from saying yes please, some more chips would be lovely.

      4. IanTP

        Re: I'm off

        Cods Scallops, 3 locations around Nottinghamm, frys in dripping! :)

    2. herman Silver badge

      Re: I'm off

      Ye gods, non-vegan beer? - that infamous Yellowknife sour toe cocktail would be non-vegan, but you are not supposed to EAT the bloody toe...

    3. jake Silver badge

      Re: I'm off

      Speaking of bloody vegans ... A friend of mine had to defend himself from a vegan wielding a plackard at an anti-meat demonstration once. Only had to hit him once (after being hit by the sign four times ... we have it on video). Connected with him squarely on the nose, and the vegan went down. My friend was later heard to comment "Vegans bleed! Who knew?" ...

      No, we weren't out to find trouble. We had just finished a late lunch at the House of Prime Rib in San Francisco, and the bastards were waiting for us as we exited the building ... The maître de gave us a copy of the security tapes "just in case".

  14. Alistair Dabbs

    Free samples

    It's a good job I didn't ask for free samples to give away to readers as you'd have all refused them.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Free samples

      Honestly, would you expect otherwise?

      You yourself called it "the result of an arguably unholy alliance" ...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Free samples

      If I won't drink my own piss there's not much chance of me drinking this.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Free samples

        If I won't drink my own piss

        Apparently, you can recycle is 3-4 times before it becomes toxic. And no, I don't know how they tested that and I probably really, really don't want to know.

        Middle Ages doctors sometimes would take a sip of a patients' urine in order to do a diagnosis. Hence their name for T2 diabetes "the sugar disease" because the body tries to dump the excess glucose out into the urine.

  15. Blackjack Silver badge

    You can make beer with milk?

    Really? Anyone knows how?

    1. Toni the terrible Bronze badge

      Re: You can make beer with milk?

      Mongolian Herders do with fermented Mares Milk (Kurmiss?) - not sure its calssifiable as beer though

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: fermented Mares Milk

        Might be bacterial rather than yeast fermentation of lactose to lactic acid and thus a non-alcoholic yogurt.

        Ancient Turks had it and the word is from Turkish. I thought I read somewhere that Mongols invented/discovered yogurt.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: fermented Mares Milk

          I wonder how one would classify drinks made from kombucha, then. Last I checked, it's BOTH yeast- AND bacteria-fermented. Last I heard, they classed the end result as a tea.

    2. Mage Silver badge

      Re: You can make beer with milk?

      Certainly you can put some milk into malt when fermenting beer. However it simply sweetens it.

      "Mackeson Stout is a milk stout first brewed in 1907. It contains lactose, a sugar derived from milk. Because lactose cannot be fermented by beer yeast, it adds sweetness, body, and energy to the finished beer."

      I prefer Murphy. Proper Stout.

      Milk on its own would be tricky, though yogurt and cheese are lower lactose (the milk sugars) than the source milk due to the creation process converting it. However fermenting milk into yogurt is using a bacteria not a yeast, so it's not alcoholic.

      I don't know of any yeast that will convert lactose to alcohol, though such might exist.

    3. DoubleBass

      Re: You can make beer with milk?

      There's lactose in the souring agent that is used in a lot of kettle-soured beers.

  16. Chemist

    "It's an easy-drinking 4.8 per cent and here at Reg Towers we wonder if it counts as one of your five-a-day."

    You only drink 5 a day ??!!

  17. redpawn

    Feed this to cows

    to get milk from beer from milk. Then repeat for a higher grade product, think double distilled etc.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Yorkshire rhubarb" .... got given a taster set of minature gin bottles for Christmas last year - one was "Yorkshire Rhubarb Gin" .... definitely glad that it was only a minature as I never want to experience that flavour combo again ... I suspect Yorkshire rhubarb beer might share some of the same properties so I won't be giving it a try.

    A year or two earlier someone gave me a box of "UK micro-brewery bottled beer" .... again sounded interesting but was a huge disappointment and I concluded that while a couple of decades ago home-brew bores were restricted to inflicting their dire products on friends and neighbours that now with web sites etc they feel able to target everyone.

  19. J27


    Well, that won't make German purity standards now will it?

  20. jason_derp

    I found the topic that drives Reg readers insane

    The naming of products as milk and beer, when they are not, in fact, meeting the stringent and well-established definitions of milk and beer. Still beats the hypertensive word vomiters in the Ars comments.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My fortnightly trip to Leeds for comics and coffee is next week, so I may well swing by the brewery tap and give this a go.

    However, I'm a bit leery of any collabs that North Brewing undertake these days, especially after the utter catastrophe that was 'Sour Bru', the beer they did with Brewdog for the 2016(?) Collabfest. Jesus H. Tittyfucking Christ, that stuff tasted like vinegar (and I _like_ sours, gueuze in particular)

    Also, as several people have pointed out already, if a beer is unfined or doesn't using isinglass finings then there's a better than even chance that it is vegan anyway.

  22. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    Is anyone minded of Mr Francis Boyle's dinner party method?

    "There's a vegan option."

    "You can f**k off."

  23. Chris G

    Fruit Beer

    In terms of true beers and ales, this is pushing the envelope.

    Hopefully down the nearest drain.

  24. Dr_N

    Wrong Path

    Veganism is the wrong path.

    Can't someone hurry up and invent a time machine so we can partake of dinosaur flesh flavoured booze?

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I never eat a Vegan I didn't like

    But their beer?


  26. Nano nano

    Don't poke fun at people with food allergies

    As was implied in the Headline and standfast ....

  27. John Geek

    real beer has no lactose and is vegan inherently, as its just made from water, barley, hops and a bit of yeast. I prefer my brews with minimal to no adjuncts. ok, a bit of oatmeal in an oatmeal stout is OK whomever started putting chocolate and/or coffee in stouts and porters should be taken out at a dawn and summarily shot

    1. Gordon 8

      Waste of a bullet

      No don't shoot them.... Send them to Leeds to drink Pink 'Beer'.

      I have a Chocolate beer in the Fridge (A gift from a friend) I just can't face the utter disappointment that I know it will be.

      I never realised that value of the Education I got from joining RADSOC @ Birmingham University. The pub crawls were an education (and almost got in the way of my Education...). Thanks guys.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Waste of a bullet

        I have a Chocolate beer in the Fridge (A gift from a friend) I just can't face the utter disappointment that I know it will be.

        Depends what it is.

        One of the best chocolate beers out there, IMO, is Sam Smith's Chocolate Stout .... better still, the brewery is about 6 miles down the road from me. The Brooklyn Brewery did (still do?) a pretty decent chocolate stout too.

    2. Rosie Davies

      I've made a chocolate stout (from grain with all the hassle and mess that implies) and no chocolate was used in the mix. It's due to the roating of the malt, a bit more than amber (that gives you your 'biscuit' flavours') and a bit less than black malt (_really_ astringent, too much makes your mouth hurt).

      I don't know what the real brewers get up to but cocoa is much more expensive that chocolate malt and you'd need a LOT of it to get a reasonable flavour (I know, I've tried). I'd be surprised if they did this but am probably as wrong about that as I am about so many things.


  28. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Rhubarb Wine

    My dad used to make rhubarb wine back in the 80s. It was a reasonably pleasant rose, unless left in the cupboard for a few years when it went clear and tasted not unlike meths.

    1. Spamfast

      Re: Rhubarb Wine

      and tasted not unlike meths

      You should really lay of the meths.

  29. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    "manly bright pink"

    Well, to the Victorians, pink *was* the colour for boys (and blue for girls)..

    I think it was in the 1940s that things changed - and, as a warning that the end times were coming, the change was driven more by retailer marketing than anything else.

    Of course, nowadays I'd like to think we were prone to less stereotyping/ I'm known as an optimistic soul..

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