back to article Last one out, hit the lights: UK energy supplier SSE to axe 115 bodies from tech department

Energy and broadband provider SSE is set to shed 115 roles within its IT infrastructure division in Britain, and will instead outsource some functions to Indian software supplier HCL. The cost-cutting measure will affect nearly all remaining UK-based tech employees. Staff have been put on notice until November 30, with the …

  1. Bronek Kozicki

    It is a good thing that SSE will not longer have any customers by then, as they are about to merge the supply business with OVO

    1. Anonymous Coward
    2. macjules

      But never mind, they are outsourcing customer service to ServiceNow in Manila. Always a sure sign of a company in the throes of major upturn ...

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Happy

        If a customer sends them a letter in the post, will the reply be in a Manila Envelope?

  2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    outsourcing appears to have been a false economy

    And many suspect that cloud is being used as a cost-cutting measure without truly understanding the costs.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      And...

      And many suspect that using Indian Software Houses is being used as a cost-cutting measure without truly understanding the costs.

      1. Mark 85

        Re: And...

        In this case, it's being outsourced to the Philippines. The true costs may even be murkier.

        1. Muscleguy

          Re: And...

          Indeed, such as their staff being shot by the police or the 'police' as suspected drug users/pushers/who cares thus raising their employment costs.

    2. batfink

      False Economy

      I've been involved in a few Outsourcings in my murky past, on both sides of the equation.

      The Business Case always involves a Fudge Factor. It comes under various names, like "Convenience Factor" or some such. Whatever it's called, it's always in there to give the "correct" outcome. So, whatever the actual cost comparison, the Fudge Factor can be changed to swing the outcome. The next time you're involved with one of these, grab the Business Case and have a look - you'll find it.

      The other piece that's always missed is the service difference between in-house and external teams. Your in-house teams will always do whatever is needed, for whatever you're paying them. The external providers will do exactly what's in the contract (if you're lucky), and anything else is extra. Just ask your friendly local Crapita/Accenture/whoever rep.

      And nobody EVER goes back and does a TCO review after the fact.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: False Economy

        Accountability. Until there IS some, this sort of shit-show is just going to keep coming round and round and round.

        Its not just that the in-house teams will do whatever is needed - they have the EXPERIENCE to do what is needed - outsource, and that experience is soon gone. Then you just have PHBs throwing SLAs and KPIs at each other while the rest goes to shit.

  3. johnnyblaze

    Dumb move

    Well, another reason not to use SSE then. Many Brits hate having to talk and deal with off-shored support departments - it's often a trial by fire. I certainly won't ever be using them again anyway.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Dumb move

      If you live in Northern Scotland, Southern England or South Wales, they are the ones that actually deliver the electricity to your distribution board; so if you have a problem, you have to speak to them, not your bill-printing company.

      Also, if you live in Scotland, Western Northern Ireland or Southern England (different borders to above), they are the people who deliver the gas to your meter.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Dumb move

        I live in NE Scotland and changed my electricity supplier to EDF last year - SSE were about to increase my annual costs (we're on a THTC tariff) by just over 30%. Their variable rate wasn't going up by that amount but the annual fixed rate, that previously offered a better deal for committing to stay a year, was being increased. Phoning to discuss met with a totally unsympathetic response - "that's the rate so that's what you'll have to pay!"

        EDF was the only supplier who could offer a THTC rate and it was far more competitive. A further bonus is that their customer facing database (web and phone app) is much better. EDF are also more proactive in reducing the monthly DD when the usage forecast goes down. With SSE, they increased my forecast energy usage each year, even when historical usage was going down.

        Just another nail in SSE's coffin as they still have to maintain the network but any income from supply was drastically cut from retail to wholesale rates.

      2. deive

        Re: Dumb move

        ...And the water to you, and your sewerage away from you.

        Donno if the other areas are the same but I am currentlly having to pay for Londons new sewerage system that SSE are building, despite not living in London at all :-(

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dumb move

          > Donno if the other areas are the same but I am currentlly having to pay for Londons new sewerage system that SSE are building, despite not living in London at all :-(

          SSE do have a small water supply business but the're not building that vast new sewer in London. That's Thames Water. And yes, I'm in a similar position to you: supply comes from Southern Water but sewage goes to Thames Water (but nowhere near London) and I got a leaflet in my bill explaining how thankful I should be that a £15 surcharge goes to help those impoverished Londoners pay for their new sewer.

        2. Muscleguy

          Re: Dumb move

          Despite the first S in their name they do not supply mains water to anyone here in Scotland. Scottish Water is and always has been in public hands. When Westminster was privatising things a civil society campaign was got up here to oppose the plans and was successful under Scots law.

      3. Da Weezil

        Re: Dumb move

        South Wales? Funny you say that because according to the vans carrying those who work on our local grid... and who say we need to call them in event of an outage - its actually Western Power Distribution that deliver the juice to our meter heads. They also distribute to the South West and East & West Midlands

        I understand they are a subsidiary of an American Company

      4. Killing Time

        Re: Dumb move

        'If you live in Northern Scotland, Southern England or South Wales, they are the ones that actually deliver the electricity to your distribution board'

        Don't know about Northern Scotland or the Effluent South but SSE aren't the DNO in South Wales, Devon and Cornwall. That would be WPD.

      5. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

        Re: Dumb move

        Sorry but this is incorrect. Majorly so.

      6. Martin an gof Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Dumb move

        If you live in Northern Scotland, Southern England or South Wales, they are the ones that actually deliver the electricity to your distribution board

        Actually, South Wales is covered by Western Power Distribution and I've found them reasonably good to deal with over the years, particularly at the moment while we are undertaking major building work at home and having to shift connections around a bit.

        M.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    See You Next Tuesdays the lot of them!

  5. Dwarf

    Light bulb moment

    I wonder how long it will be until someone realises that this is not a great idea ... Although you can probably expect that the person doing the outsource will not be there when the contract expires and it all comes back in house again.

    I also heard that Warner Brothers have found out the hard way that energy saving light bulbs cost them more as the cartoons are now longer since they have to wait a couple of minutes for the energy saving light bulb to reach the correct brightness, which rather screws up the story line.

    1. MJB7

      Re: Energy saving light bulbs

      Not any more they don't. LEDs come on just about as fast as incandescents did.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Energy saving light bulbs

        And with a fixed colour spectrum regardless of voltage, and how long they've been on.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trouble shortly to arrive

    Having been outsourced to HCL myself, my experience is possibly relevant. Announcement made 4 months in advance, my group reached out to HCL directly and via management and got nothing except an occasional "we'll contact you later" email in return. Five days before handover we got a request for a formal handover the next week, which we arranged.

    Three days before handover, I finally joined a Zoom meeting in which three engineers apologized for their continuously dropping connectivity as their office internet links had been offline for three days and they were working off mifi. I got four hours with them, during which I managed to tell them about multiple internal systems and processes they knew nothing about. They never requested another meeting: perhaps 3G was down as well?

    Didn't give a toss, frankly. The host company doubtless got what it deserved, good and hard :-)

    1. Sean o' bhaile na gleann

      Re: Trouble shortly to arrive

      Not exactly on topic, more a bit of personal history re outsourcing...

      Mid 90's, working mainframe tech support for a large insurance company, got 'sold' (TUPEd) to an outsourcer. Best thing that ever happened to me. Got a 30% pay rise, and all pension funds carried over (as per TUPE law). Got exposure to the many different ways that outsourcer's client companies could find of fucking things up & that I had to subsequently sort out. Lots of fun! No, really. At one time, I was asked if I wanted to be the tech support guy for just one client. I said 'No', because the sheer breadth of experience I was getting was far too valuable to me. Now still working after turning 65, and the pension from the original company has kicked in, and very nice it is too.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interesting Move

    Given that another large utilities provider a bit further east is actually doing the opposite and currently in-sourcing all IT management and data centre services including help desk, Lan, WAN etc from large vendors such as Capita, Fujistu etc

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Outsourcing what you don't understand

    I'm sure this will be typical of the other Big 6* suppliers that don't understand the importance that IT plays in all they do (gains, loses, Billing, Smart Metering) so outsource it and lose all control. The bigwigs walk off into the Sunrise with a massive pat on the back and bulging pockets while the poor TUPEd staff (those that weren't made redundant) are left to try and hold everything together. All at the expense of the customer, who leaves for pastures green that they never find.

    *There will only be a Big 5 soon. Hasn't anyone else noticed that E.ON appears to have accidentally bought NPower?

  9. GreggS

    Having dealt with SSe IT and procurement

    Believe me, it's probably not a bad thing. They can't be much worse.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Having dealt with SSe IT and procurement

      They will be and they are. Quite a lot of SSE IT in the UK is already done by outsourced staff that are shipped over from India for varying lengths of time.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Remind me to organise switching supplier. Haven't given them a meter reading in years of course so chances are I am owed a stack of cash off them anyway...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We're happy we don't have an ex-empire...

    ... which was forced to learn our language, so we can't outsource much abroad....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We're happy we don't have an ex-empire...

      There's always aliens :-)

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: We're happy we don't have an ex-empire...

      I'm sure the Americans are very grateful...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How long before all the customer records are hacked?

    (body)

    1. Cynicalmark
      Devil

      Re: How long before all the customer records are hacked?

      Remember that BT company? Outsourcing helped them build the worlds biggest scam subsidiary in India. You know the one, calling to tell you they are Micro$oft and need to fix your copy of Windoze....

      Remember BA. The great idea they had outsourcing to IBM and India? Didn’t see a bigger shambles.

      Remember TSB? The largest UK banking cock up since Nat West cashpoints had a hissy fit. All IBM outsourcing.

      It’s sad to see their poor techs in India begging for solutions to be written free by others on IT and tech forums all over the web. Yes they got what they paid for some cheap low experienced bullshitter so fu*k ‘em all.

      Hey. I got outsourced (replaced) by some poor chap from Russia who was willing to work for peanuts. They got what they paid for.

      I’m not bitter - just polishing my cold revenge. Mwahahahaha

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How long before all the customer records are hacked?

        "Remember that BT company? Outsourcing helped them build the worlds biggest scam subsidiary in India. You know the one, calling to tell you they are Micro$oft and need to fix your copy of Windoze...."

        I've had that one. I'm no longer with BT but the caller said I was. I didn't correct them. Clearly where the leak has come from.

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: How long before all the customer records are hacked?

          May be nothing to do with a specific breach - I suspect that many of these scams just have a list of numbers to call and choose a "big name" telecoms supplier or bank or whatever at random, rationalising that the hit rate is likely to be high. A good reason among many to move to one of the smaller providers.

          "Hi, I'm calling from your ISP" (i.e. without a specific name) also seems to be a common tactic.

          M.

  13. smudge

    Last one out, hit the lights

    No need - they will have gone out anyway.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another one bites the dust!

    This move is typical of a big comapany trying to save a few pennies when they are worried about the bottom line. This is a typical higher management decision where they don't understand the real cost of outsourcing. The base cost is lower but once you start to add the extra's that are not included in the contract the costs rise considderabily! Good luck SSE you will need it!

  15. Lee D Silver badge

    In-house, out-sourced, thin-client, fat-client, etc. etc.

    All the same, and never any different in any positive terms.

    You are paying people, to do the same job, via a third-party, who has the exact same legal obligations, who intends to profit, and who has no interest in going above-and-beyond for you in any manner. In fact, they often hire those exact people who you forced out, on the same or better terms (even in that means less or more-regular hours), charge you 10% on top, and all their infrastructure costs, etc. while sticking to the exact letter of their contract and not a bit more because you failed to specify their role precisely enough. They still have to pay NI, working hours, pensions, etc.

    It's expensive, pointless and stupid unless you consider one possible factor - the company you outsource to giving kickbacks to the person who made the decision. Whether that's expensive lunches, a portion of the profits, helping out his brother-in-law, or whatever else.

    It's like paying someone to sit at your desk in work and do your job for you, and being their only "employer" - so you have to deal not only with whatever work needs to be done, but also cover yourself against the liability and responsibilities of being an employer yourself. And then when they have a sick day, want a holiday, or they don't do the job - guess what... you have to do it, or pay out even more money to someone else to work that part as well on your behalf.

    It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of and rankles only of corruption and ineptitude in every company I've ever worked in.

    The only slight exception is if you literally cannot afford to hire even one employee to do that job, in which case having an outsource part-timer from a large company might well work for you. That's how it works for, say, cleaners. It does not work for 99.9% of other professions, does not work on any scale of note whatsoever, and nor is it ever any cheaper even if it does work.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Consider the following (highly simplified scenario). There is a small company with a need for IT support. There is a continuous workload equivalent to 1.5 full time employees (FTEs). There is a continuous workload for 1.5 Linux FTEs. What do you do?

      Employ 2xWindows and 2xLinux? Or hope to find 1xWindows; 1xLinux and 1xBoth? Outsourcing means the outsourcer can share that 0.5 resource difference with another client.

      Next problem: how do you cover those 3 or 4 employees when they go on holiday? Just take a chance that systems won't go down while they're away? Or employ even more staff to cover? What do those staff do the rest of the time?

      Final problem: what do you do when a new project comes along? Employ more staff to do the work? Employ contractors to do the work? A combination?

      Outsourcing relieves the company of having to deal with these kinds of issues.

      I've seen plenty of outsourcing for both the right and the wrong reasons, but it has never been because of corruption.

      1. Martin an gof Silver badge

        I've seen plenty of outsourcing for both the right and the wrong reasons, but it has never been because of corruption.

        But I bet it has often been to do with cost. Here you have two scenarios.

        1: outsourcing company is based in the same country as you are so must abide by exactly the same employment law. Other than offloading management hassle (and a very small amount of that if you still retain some local employees!) and a very small potential saving due to economies of scale (a cleaner could spend a couple of hours on your site then move to another site, and 1x FT employee is always cheaper than 2x PT employees) their costs will be near enough identical to yours, so if you are saving money over what in-house cleaners used to cost, they can't possibly make a profit unless their single biggest outgoing is lower - i.e. they pay lower wages.

        2: outsourcing company is based in a different country with different employment law and reduced costs, possibly because the cost of living is lower (so wages can be lower without penalty) but often because non-wage costs are lower; lower employer taxes, National Insurance etc. You are effectively bypassing all those local employment laws, which might be good for your bottom line in the short term, but is hardly the moral high ground.

        In many cases the outsourcing company expects you to provide orientation for them at no cost, but will - at the end of a contract - walk away without in any way considering handing over to the next lot.

        Time and again I've seen it - particularly in the "facilities management" field. New contractor promises the earth, all goes well for a few months, then for the remaining 90% of the contract period it's almost impossible to get them to do anything, even their contracted "scheduled maintenance". Front-line people realise that it'd be cheaper and more productive overall to strike up a relationship with a local (say) electrical installer or refrigeration engineer rather than relying on the FM company, who will meet their four hour response target by sending a plumber to look at a blown lighting circuit and report back that "this requires a sparky", because the FM company only has two overworked sparks who are currently at the other side of the country dealing with a different client and can't get to you within that target time.

        M.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        For an IT support team that small I’d expect 3 all rounders that can cover each other. But to be honest, in this day and age, SAAS would cover quite a few bases.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Are you a PHB?

        I ask, because I work in an outsourcing outfit. In fact, I've worked for quite a few. I can tell you for a fact:

        1) Your "expert" probably really isn't.

        2) If your outfit is small, you won't get a dedicated FTE, Hell, you rarely get that if your business is big.

        3) You'll be lucky if you retain access to that person for more than 6 months.

        4) They will not give one flying fuck about you or your business.

        5) You want a project delivered? Expect to pay a LOT of money for it.

        As in most cases, the bottom line is how much does business success mean to you? If you're a PHB looking to make a fast buck and move on, I suspect the smoke and mirrors of outsourcing will suit you just fine.

  16. Phil Bennett

    Genuine shame

    While I'm not sure how SSE's broadband services are rated generally, they really were much better than I expected when it turned out the no minumum contract period market was astonishingly small (shared house, I was the only one willing to take on the broadband contract, and I didn't know how long I was staying but expected less than 12 months).

    Despite a less than straightforward situation (existing line still in the name of the previous housemate with pending hold of some kind, legacy and allegedly still active business line with no apparent sockets) they kept me informed throughout the process and I was up and running as scheduled. Fab customer support people, never seemed stressed, rushing or blocked by their own tools, which meant calls were much quicker and infinitely less annoying.

  17. Titus Aduxass

    Suicidal

    "Profit made by the core businesses that SSE plans to retain..."

    But SSE do not recognise what their core business is.

    SSE does not make anything; as a Supply company all they do is sign customers up, process meter reading, send bills and provide a call centre for customers. SSE is fundamentally a data processing company. IT is the very core of their business.

    Outsourcing your core competence is a suicidal move.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Suicidal

      > SSE does not make anything

      SE own power stations and wind farms. They generate as well as distribute.

      1. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: Suicidal

        Correct. And the generation business is not as tightly cost-regulated as the supply business. Keep in mind that OFGEM has forced the energy suppliers (gas/electricity) to accept a maximum annual cap that's seriously cutting into their profits from their consumer businesses.

      2. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

        Re: Suicidal

        No... SSE generate, and manage some assets (some on behalf of NGL) as other business avenues. National Grid distribute and balance. Same for gas, although for gas the ACTUAL distribution and asset management is managed by the regional GDNs on their behalf i.e. SGN, Cadent, NGNL and W&W etc.

        This is where part of your bill goes when you pay your supplier every month/quarter etc.

    2. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

      Re: Suicidal

      Your post shows an absolute ignorance of the other significant businesses that are run under the SSE brand. SSE Retail (i.e. residential supply tariff billing) is only a part of it.

    3. iRadiate

      Re: Suicidal

      Compentance?

      Massive assumption.

      I've worked with them. IT guys are a bunch of entrenched old guys blocking any moves to introduce new tech or processes just to keep them going till retirement.

      DBAs unable to optimise their databases. OS guys unable to manage simple things like disk space let alone correctly configure kermal parameters. Whole place needs a clean out. Not saying that outsourcing is the answer but something needed to be done as the SSE business and hence their customers were essentially being held hostage by IT staff afraid to lose their jobs or learn new skills.

  18. Claverhouse Silver badge

    Straighten Up SSE !

    An enhanced redundancy is being offered to employees, but The Register understands they have been advised not to discuss the amounts.

    Not sure of the legality of such advice, but why the secrecy ? Are they ashamed for some reason ?

    And commercial confidentially only affects where one has competition who could benefit from what one tries to keep secret. Not like any competitor is going to offer more money to those who lost their jobs.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Straighten Up SSE !

      Why would they be ashamed of offering an "enhanced" package? It's only enhanced if it's more than statutory, which it obviously will be - and I have a good idea by how much and it's not an inconsiderable amount!

      And asking staff not to discuss it is pretty much standard practice for virtually all businesses.

  19. Acronymforme

    Welcome to becoming America

    Yes, this is from the UK. However, this is exactly what has been going on in the US for over 15 years. US reporters just don't make it news or a civil war might start. The US has permanently lost MILLIONS & MILLIONS of jobs due to outsourcing. Our unemployment #'s are false. More worrying is this - offshore employees don't pay taxes to the US (or UK). This leads to Gov't budget deficits, less social services and higher tax burden to those left behind to make up the losses.

    Governments need to lay down the law to companies who maintain their domicile in one country, but have a majority of staff in another: Pay higher corporate tax or move to where your people are!

    Welcome to becoming America! I recently heard that Trump is Boobie trapping your Brexit deal too. Make the NHS private like the US & allow the US & Int'l drug manufacturers charge whatever they want in the UK for prescriptions, or he won't honor current US trade agreements. Didn't anyone learn anything from the Edison/Tesla deal? Tell Trump to "F" off... he will be hone soon. You also need to tighten that leaky sieve of a border you have. You can't be wet nurse to the world.

    1. BebopWeBop
      Unhappy

      Re: Welcome to becoming America

      The UK has been doing it for almost as long

  20. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    This is a shame.

    I don't work for SSE IT directly but have worked with a lot of these guys (i.e. the technical people on the ground that actually DO the work) for quite a while now. They are a really good, talented and very friendly bunch without a major ego amongst them.

    It is a real shame that they are all being shafted (once again) by their own IT and Corporate managers who have now effectively run SSE Retail into the ground.

  21. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Because it worked so well for SGN

    That's genius!!

    I was a contractor at SGN shortly after the divorce settlement between the two companies, tasked with moving Microsoft services to 365. It failed spectacularly and so the suits allowed companies to bid on shifting everything but the kitchen sink into the cloud.

    HCL won the contract due to costs and it took less than a fortnight for the cracks to show. That was September 2017 and I'm still in contact with people on that project, its barely moved since.

    Last year I went for an interview at SSE, they said they'd watched the horrors of SGN's migration to the cloud, learnt from its mistakes and successfully moved their email, Skype and file service solutions to the cloud.

    Was the divorce so bitter you stopped paying attention? HCL are fucking animals. Expect bad things to happen in the near future.

    Posting anon because I'm a coward.

    1. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

      Re: Because it worked so well for SGN

      Your post is only 2/5 factually correct. And yes, you are a coward.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Because it worked so well for SGN

        Break it down for me then chap/chapette?

        Did the migration not fair well for SSE either? If not you might want to advise your staff otherwise for giving out crap information to recruitment agencies. Or did SGN sort their house out? If so then why is the team I was part of still there in its entirety. Made up mostly of contractors.

        Of course I'm a coward. I'd go back in a heartbeat. Overpaid contractors with the sea air and a great canteen. Shame about the parking mind. I hear you've been restricted from the technology park now too, or is that another thing I've misheard?

  23. adam payne

    Energy and broadband provider SSE is set to shed 115 roles within its IT infrastructure division in Britain, and will instead outsource some functions to Indian software supplier HCL.

    Outsourcing has worked sooo well for lots of other companies.

  24. LeahroyNake

    Down the crapper

    I am lucky enough not to have to use SSE and try to avoid any company that outsources roles especially customer support. Do they not realise that the outsourcing looks like a last ditch attempt to balance the books before they implode and become non functional as a supplier?

    I am not affiliated with the below companies and have had decent service from them at a reasonable price, any other issues with them?

    Plusnet (hard to fault), Zen Internet (expensive but awesome), Xilo (small team but very good).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Down the crapper

      SSE customer support was until very recently, done by UK based SSE employees - that's the reason they have (had?) won numerous "Best Service Awards". Yet another thing the upper management seems to have forgotten, along with SSE being a "family".

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