Don't panic! Don't panic! UK IT job ads plummet as Brexit uncertainty grabs UK tech sector by the short and curlies

IT job postings in the UK are being battered by Brexit and the lingering uncertainty of leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement on 31 October. According to CompTIA stats out today, job ads were down 13 per cent year-on-year and a stonking 40 per cent lower than the same period in 2017. Amy Carrado, senior director at …

[Pascal Monett]

The search for good news is getting desperate

So job offers in IT are weakest ever but fear not, IT will grow by 4% in the next five years.

Yeah, maybe, we'll see, but it's hard to believe since Brexit has put a damper on everything and the outlook is neither certain nor looking good.

There may be good times ahead, but they don't seem to be coming any time soon.

[gv]

Re: The search for good news is getting desperate

Sunlit uplands hitting in 2050.

[Warm Braw]

Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

It does seem to depend on where you are to some extent. Recruiters seem to be upping their networking activity in the north in response to a steady stream of relocations from London and the Thames Valley owing to the still-rising cost of employing and housing people there.

All full time positions or contracts, though, it would seem. I had vaguely been considering doing a couple of days a week if I should find myself with time on my hands in retirement, but the concept was met with blank stares when I proposed it to a couple of agencies.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

Contracts with SMBs might be a possibility.

[89724102172714182892114I7551670349743096734346773478647892349863592355648544996312855148587659264921]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

As we age, personal contact becomes much more important when approaching agencies - you don't fit their ideal job cadidate photofit therefore your emailed CV will be discarded almost immediately. But... recruiters are out to make money, they get bonuses and the agencies get a hefty set of fees for positions filled. All you need is to meet the right recruiter who believes they can make money out of you. Play the odds, there are hundreds of agencies within a 50 mile radius of most cities, a few fair will specialise in IT. Having your references to hand means they can make money faster (no need to wait for snail mail, a quick confirmatory phone call is all that's needed). I'm sorry to say, the CV you leave with the receptionist will be thrown in the bin as soon as they see your age, always ask to speak to a recruiter directly.

[Tom Paine]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

"references"? Perhaps I've been misinformed, but AIUI it's now illegal to give a reference that goes into more detail than confirming that a person was employed by Company X between such-and-such dates.

(No, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find that it's true, but that 80% of organisations never got the memo. )

[phuzz]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

Why would you give someone a bad reference? If you do, they might not get the job and you'll be stuck working with the useless bastard.

(Unless you have a roll of old carpet, some foundations that need filling, and an appropriately BOfH mindset, of course.)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

I do a couple of days a week and I'm not retired. The blank stares we're probably because you expected fixed hours.

I haven't had fixed hours for nearly a decade. Everything is remote and on demand.

[Warm Braw]

Re: Part-time jobs seem to have disappeared altogether

The conversation didn't really get beyond whether they ever encountered anything less than full time. Never had the luxury of fixed hours...

[adam 40]

Everyone is in full employment

So why waste money on job ads. Makes sense to me.

[seven of five]

Re: Everyone is in full employment

Yep, this is the most propable explanation: Everything is so fucking wonderful we don´t need any job ads.

Sure.

[Loyal Commenter]

Re: Everyone is in full employment

Everyone is too busy delivering takeaways to read them anyway.

[Doctor Syntax]

It's an interesting comparison with Y2K. You'd think there'd be a flurry of jobs as systems are adapted to deal with whatever comes next but, unlike Y2K, nobody knows what comes next.

There's nothing like good, careful planning and this is nothing like good, careful planning.

[Anonymous Coward]

Y2K wasn't deliberately created by politicians, media owners and oligarchs for fun and profit. It was therefore fixable.

[twellys]

So true!

[adam 40]

No - it was created by us!!

Jobs for the boys!!! LOADSAMONEY!!!

This gives me an idea - how can we monetise the brexit uncertainty??

[Loyal Commenter]

Margin trading. Short-selling on the currency markets. That sort of thing.

The sort of thing that requires that you are already rich as a precondition to becoming even richer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having worked at a forex broker, I strongly advise non-professionals who've got a few hundred grand to play with NOT to try their hand at it. You will be broke within six months. Day traders are just chum for the likes of Goldman and Barcap.

No, a "how to trade fx" seminar doesn't make you a professional. Neither does getting four monitors and MultiCharts.

[joeW]

Ask Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[Anonymous Coward]

How? Quite simple. Move a load of money into Euros, dollars and yen before a referendum.

If it goes one way, you won't lose much. If it goes the other, the £ will fall dramatically, which means in dollar and euro terms things like house prices in the UK will fall.

Then it's just a matter of when to use your foreign funds to buy up the country on the cheap.

If you're asking the question now, it's too late.

[SVV]

It's actually a new and innovative type of planning. Instead of agreeing what you you want to do, then carefully getting ready for it, this more exciting method is based on poker, where you don't move until as late as possible before revealing your hand, hoping that the others blink first.Then you go all-in, and every IT system in the country is magically ready for whatever you really planned to do.

[codejunky]

@Doctor Syntax

"nobody knows what comes next."

Well said. Whichever side of the debate we are on we can both agree that uncertainty is a huge problem.

[Tom Paine]

Re: @Doctor Syntax

On the contrary - I find my local pub and my social media are stuffed with people who are 100% certain they know what will happen in each of the two main scenarios currently in play (no-deal on 31/10, and some sort of Parliamentary ambush, GE, second referendum or other mechanism to stop it.) They can't all be right! And it's only, what, 7 weeks or so until we find out which it is. I for one am on the edge of my seat! Now, pass another roll under the door, would you?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the NHS is doomed

if you believe the front page of the Daily Mirror today.

El Trumpo will demand open access to the NHS for the US healthcare giants as part of a trade deal along with Chlorinated Chicken and Hormone Laden Beef.

Open access means total dismantlement of the NHS and naturally no more free healthcare at the point of delivery. Credit Card checks will be installed at every hospital entrance. Can't afford to pay £10 for a dose of Ibuprofen and you won't be let in. That'll solve the waiting list times all right.

TBH, I can't think of one thing that is actually made in the USA that I'd want to buy.

BoJo and pals will be laughing all the way to highly paid directorships and payments to Tax Havens while the rest of us starve in order to pay more than our weekly income[1] just to see a doctor.

We are doomed I tell ye, doomed.

[1] Those of us lucky enough to have a job after the forthcoming malestrom that is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

TBH, I can't think of one thing that is actually made in the USA that I'd want to buy.

If everyone feels like that, there won't be any business for US companies, and they'll leave. But...

It's just like McDonalds, "everyone" derides their products, claims they'd not be seen dead in one, yet still they thrive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: TBH, I can't think of one thing that is actually made in the USA that I'd want to buy.

A few years ago, I was sitting in a hospital with the good lady wife, and was admiring the quality workmanship on the bed. Properly solid frame, beautifully welded, and clearly set to last a lifetime.

Made in the US.

This was in a hospital in Dudley, UK. The alleged heart of UK metal bashing.

A say "alleged", because despite living here 20 years, I have yet to find a workshop that can fix anything.

This bed was a really nice piece of kit.

That said, the good lady wife is now rocking an internally fitted medical driver. Again - made in the US.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: going to McD's

I went into one once. Bought something that tasted like cardboard. After two mouthfuls, I got up and walked out.

Never felt the inclination to return.

The same goes for B-King, KFC etc. I'll be happy to go to my grave having avoided the lot of them.

Sadly there are far too many people who use them all the time. Perhaps one day, they'll wise up? Who knows eh?

As for using the Drive Through. nope, not for me thanks.

[Loyal Commenter]

Re: going to McD's

People eat their food because:

- they are poor and it is cheap

- the "restaurants" are open when other places are shut

- they've never eaten decent food so don't know any better

If you want to see improvement here, there are a couple of things to do; pay people better so they can afford to eat decent food, do something about ridiculous ground-rents and rates for small businesses so cafes can afford to stay open longer, and go back to requiring that schools provide nutritionally balanced meals, rather than the cheapest offering.

Of course, if you want to see those things happening, you first need to gather up every single tory and push them into the sea...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: going to McD's

you first need to gather up every single tory and push them into the sea...

Wouldn't help. None of us eats in McDo :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: going to McD's

On a strictly practical and politically neutral point of view, pushing everybody who voted Conservative in the last election would have interesting effects.

House prices would fall to zero. Second hand car prices would fall to zero. Unfortunately, so would share prices.

You do need a certain percentage of evil capitalists to keep the show on the road. Otherwise you end up like the Soviet Union - without any greedy, acquisitive people nobody has an incentive to make anything nice to sell to them. So to create demand, you create shortages. You don't build enough cars. You make flats too small. You go from motivating people to keep up with the Joneses to motivating people to work to have enough to live on.

The answer is to have enough Tories to make things work, but keep them on a tight enough leash that they have to allow other people a decent standard of living. It even worked for a while in the early Blair years before he went mad and decided that Bush was his client rather than the UK.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: going to McD's

"Of course, if you want to see those things happening, you first need to gather up every single tory and push them into the sea..."

I despise living in a country with people as shallow minded and ignorant as you. To think that whatever political party you support could ever be in power makes me shudder.

[Tom Paine]

Re: going to McD's

I concur. It's only the sewer press reading Mark Francois / Rees-Mogg types who would need to get back in the sea. Unfortunately, these days that appears to be around 75% of the Conservative Party membership in the country.

(PS I don't think the suggestion of pushing people into the sea was really 100% serious, though I take your point.)

[Buzzword]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

The NHS is doomed, and has been for the past 70 years. Browse over to Google, search for "NHS privatisation", and set the date filter to pre-2005. You'll find tons of material, including regular scare stories from the BMJ and the Guardian. Yet here we are in 2019, and the NHS is still free.

[Loyal Commenter]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

The NHS is still free, but don't think that parts of it haven't already been privatised. Just google Virgin Healthcare for plentiful examples of bits of the NHS that have been sawed off and privatised for profit (and not for patient benefit, whatever the vulture capitalists tell you)

[Dr Who]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

I thought you were joking at first, but suddenly realised you were serious.

No mainstream politician of any persuasion has ever argued with the principle of free at the point of delivery. Ever. Nobody. Where opinions differ is how we might arrive at that point of delivery - and that is a subject for legitimate debate as the current system depends too heavily on the sacrifice, dedication and unpaid overtime of a million odd NHS workers who see the NHS as a vocation, not just a job. If those workers suddenly worked to rule the whole shooting match would collapse. It is an abuse of all of those staff to leave things as they are. Blair/Brown admirably tried chucking vast sums of cash at the existing system but sadly that didn't solve the problem. We need to suspend the ideological dogma and have an open, rational discussion about the options. If we don't we are massively failing patients, NHS staff, and the tax payer.

[JimmyPage]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

No mainstream politician of any persuasion has ever argued with the principle of free at the point of delivery.

They don't need to, when most of the public can be conned into doing it for them, Look at the current "health tourism" trope that people have fallen for.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

"No mainstream politician of any persuasion has ever argued with the principle of free at the point of delivery. Ever. Nobody. "

Up to now I'd have said the same thing.

But we live in strange times.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

"Blair/Brown admirably tried chucking vast sums of cash at the existing system but sadly that didn't solve the problem."

How strange that didn't work. Admirably.... Jeez

[Tom Paine]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

No mainstream politician of any persuasion has ever argued with the principle of free at the point of delivery. Ever. Nobody.

Depends what you mean by mainstream, but apart from many of Farage's crew there's a sizeable chunk of the Parliamentary Conservative Party who are on the record as saying approving things about "some sort of insurance-based scheme".

Incidentally, the current regime have announced that they intend to institute charges for NHS treatment for all EU nationals after 31/10. ( https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/get-ready-to-charge-eu-citizens-under-no-deal-brexit-nhs-bosses-told-xgb9dsf5g )

As there is no means of isdentifying which EU-born UK residents have been granted Settled Status -- there's no documentary evidence, no certificate or card (ggl for the gory details) -- it's a fairly safe bet that they're going to have to install PDQ machines at reception and start taxing pretty much anyone non-white or who has a "funny accent" That is, unless that announcement was just bullshit electioneering designed to attract back the Brexit Party voting ex-Tory voters who gave them a majority in 2015, of course... So, free at the point of delivery for anyone who can produce a UK passport. No doubt Expressograph readers think this is a fine idea, and about time too.

See where this is going?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

Incidentally, the current regime have announced that they intend to institute charges for NHS treatment for all EU nationals after 31/10

As there is no means of isdentifying which EU-born UK residents have been granted Settled Status

Curious, since they seem to manage just fine already for residents from non-EEA countries. Logically, post 31/10 resident EEA citizens would be treated just like residents from any of the 160 non-EEA countries, for which there is already a working system. Sounds more like remainer FUD to me.

[Dan 55]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

Non-EEA residents have a residency card to (possibly) get free NHS access. EU citizens will not have anything they can show to distinguish between pre-Brexit residency status, post-Brexit residency status, or tourists.

They can't even get British citizens right and this story is after Windrush so you'd have hoped they'd have upped their game by now but evidently not.

And of course whatever nonsense is visited on EU citizens by our lords and masters in the UK (doff cap, tug forelock) can be reciprocated on British citizens in the EU, only other EU countries have managed to set up residency databases that work.

Seriously, I find it hard to understand that I'm having to explain this on an IT site where up until now we could have safely assumed we all at least have a passing familiarity with logic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

EU citizens will not have anything they can show to distinguish between pre-Brexit residency status, post-Brexit residency status, or tourists.

Did you read the official documents? "The letter you get from the Home Office which confirms your status will include a link to an online service. You can use this service to view and prove your status."

only other EU countries have managed to set up residency databases that work

Well, they have a head start since they already have all their own citizens on an ID card database. It's easier to track the foreigners when you're already tracking all your own citizens.

[Dan 55]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

Did you read the official documents? "The letter you get from the Home Office which confirms your status will include a link to an online service. You can use this service to view and prove your status."

Yes, I did, but you didn't:

"In the future, you’ll also be able to prove your rights to others online.

You will not get a paper document to prove your status and rights, as these documents can be open to fraud, or be lost or stolen. Help will be available if you have difficulties using the online service."

This was before Patel decided that FoM would end on the 31st of October of this year instead of the 31st of December 2020. If the date is brought forward, the online check won't be ready.

Employers have to check ID themselves and if they get it wrong five years in prison or an unlimited fine. Landlords also have to check and risk the same punishment.

The result is employees and landlords refuse non-British and even British citizens in case the Home Office later decides they're wrong. Not even the government themselves can get it right This really should be the purview of the Home Office where all this information should be checked by them and then some documentation should be given which employers and landlords can trust.

Well, they have a head start since they already have all their own citizens on an ID card database. It's easier to track the foreigners when you're already tracking all your own citizens.

ID cards are non-existent or optional in 19 EEA countries, so not "already tracking all their own citizens" is not a bar to a working residency database.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

So you acknowledge that there will in fact be a way to prove status, thanks. It's an IT way, but this is, as noted, an IT site.

[Dan 55]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

Ending free movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit is impossible, experts warn

[Roland6]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

"The letter you get from the Home Office which confirms your status will include a link to an online service. You can use this service to view and prove your status."

So to use the service you will need to input something that is unique to you, like an id number that is linked to their passport, driving licence, NI number, HMRC Tax account number.

However, given some of the things that have come out of the UK government recently, I expect that unique id to be a persons mobile phone number accessed through a 'residency' app...

[Roland6]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

That is, unless that announcement was just bullshit electioneering designed to attract back the Brexit Party voting ex-Tory voters who gave them a majority in 2015, of course...

We can expect most statements coming out of Boris's government to be made with a view on there being a general election before Christmas. There are just too many such announcements which when looked at closely fail to deliver. Eg. the "review" in to HS2, chaired by: Douglas Oakervee, a civil engineer and former chair of HS2 Ltd. and has a panel containing other pro-HS2 cheerleaders, clearly indicates the review is a whitewash to appease those who don't bother to actually look at the details...

[H in The Hague]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

"TBH, I can't think of one thing that is actually made in the USA that I'd want to buy."

There are some US companies which make excellent products, such as Sound Devices (professional sound and video equipment), other niche audio shops, Toro professional lawnmowers, etc. - all v high quality but also rather pricey. (Disclaimer: I own some of this stuff and do little jobs for one of them.) But unfortunately the mass market demands cheap and often disposable stuff. The stuff I tend to avoid on both technical and environmental grounds.

[werdsmith]

Re: And the NHS is doomed

”TBH, I can't think of one thing that is actually made in the USA that I'd want to buy.”

Hmm, I’ve got a guitar collection that is a few short of complete. Rickenbacker, Gretsch and PRS sized holes in it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

but there's no need to worry because nobody will have any fuel to go driving anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49405270

[0laf]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

But that's ok because of all of Bojo's new wizzy fibre broadbad links to every house everywhere we'll never need to leave the house to get to our assigned jobs. If you never step outside you won't need to see the militaristic state of emergency that will be introduced to Airstrip one.

Eggagerated for effect. I doubt any of our politicians care capable of running a functioning dictatorship. We'd need to outsource it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

I am sure Chairman Xi will oblige if asked.

Mind you, if he could achieve 9% growth a year I suspect we'd welcome it.

[Tom Paine]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

Not if it's achieved by having schoolkids sent to work at factories on the nightshift 6 days a week...

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/amazon-foxconn-echo-kindle-child-labour

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

"I doubt any of our politicians care capable of running a functioning dictatorship. We'd need to outsource it."

I wish people like you would go and live in a dictatorship for a while (assuming you could leave it after). You would realise fairly soon just how good we have it.

[codejunky]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

@0laf

"If you never step outside you won't need to see the militaristic state of emergency that will be introduced to Airstrip one."

Wasnt it Corbyn demanding a state of emergency for climate change?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sure there'll be some bumps in the road. . .

No, of course not. Are you sure you're not deliberately misunderstanding the (somewhat annoying, but merited I feel) marketing phrase "climate emergency"?

(PS no I'm emphatically NOT a Corbynoid! Self-confessed Lib Dem here... )

[Anonymous Coward]

for the pill aficionado

Are people that write a lot of these posts even from the UK?

You can get painkillers from the supermarket for 25p.

What wrong with the uk is all the people blocking up the NHS for free pills they can buy for pennys.

[Evil Scot]

Re: for the pill aficionado

Some of these 25p Pills are only available in small quantities. So you need a prescription to get hold of a reasonable supply.

And then there is the problem with mobility to get hold of the supply. Factor in a taxi ride to the pharmacy and the price of the pills rises tenfold. Each week.

Here are my boots, the pharmacy is half a mile away.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: for the pill aficionado

What wrong with the uk is all the people blocking up the NHS for free pills they can buy for pennys.

Happens everywhere. I live in France, when I was going on a interesting (expensive) holiday to distant places I popped into the doctor for advice on vaccinations. left with a prescription for them, diahorrea tablets, water purifiers, even aspirin. All paid for by the taxpayers, despite the fact that if I could afford my non-essential holiday I could clearly afford to buy appropriate preventive non-essential medicines.

[Loyal Commenter]

Re: for the pill aficionado

I think the logic here is that you might well be able to afford the preventative measures yourself, but if given them, you'll actually take them, rather than maybe not bothering. This might be a cost to the tax-payer, but it's miniscule compared to the costs of treating people who come back from holiday with new and interesting diseases, or of repatriating an occupied coffin.

[Velv]

The Other Elephant in the Room

IR35

I know a number of companies who have stopped recruiting new contractors and are letting current contractors go until there is certainty around IR35 and the Private Sector.

[FlossyThePig]

Re: The Other Elephant in the Room

Can someone explain to me when IR35 changed. I was contracting in the private sector) when Gordon slipped it in and it was one of the reasons I went back to being a "permi".

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, what is partly to blame for the state of the NHS is the increasing population of this country. You cannot increase the population by 250,000 a year without investing in the extra infrastructure required to support the increase. (From an IT perspective, you wouldn't increase the number of users on a given system, without making any provision for the system to adequately support those users.)

I use to be able to ring my doctor up at 8am and get an appointment the same day, now there is very little chance of getting an appointment to see my doctor for a couple of weeks. If it is urgent, I can see a practitioner nurse or if I'm extremely lucky, a locum in the afternoon.

On average a doctor will have about 2,000 patients on their panel, therefore an extra 125 doctors per year joining the NHS based on the annual population increase, is required. If a practice has 5 doctors, then you are looking at 25 new practices every year being built.

This is repeated by medical professions, it isn't just my little rant. Having spoken to a number of CFO's in a number of foundation trusts, health tourism and unsustainable population growth, are the main reasons why the NHS is struggling.

We are told that the birth rate for western cultures is about 1.6 children per couple, therefore, the population should be ultimately decreasing (delayed by an increase in life span). (Yes I also know that for a civilization to survive, 2.1 child births per couple is a requirement, so immigration to offset this, is a necessity.)

The NHS will not be sorted until either the provision is put in place to cater for a population of +70 million (currently running at 67 million), or the population is reduced to whatever number is required by the current size of the NHS.

[joeW]

Don't worry, the NHS will be getting an extra £350 million per week soon. I heard it from a most trustworthy source.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's that worth in hard currency?

[Paul Crawford]

Well it looks as if you get a BJ round the back of No.10 for that sort of amount

[Tom Paine]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I can't believe no-one's put the obvious and well-known rebuttal for this tired old xenophobic sewer press trope to you, but you haven't mentioned it or why you think it's invalid. Why is that?

[MrBanana]

There is a problem not just with the increase in the population, but also the age demographic. As our ability to treat ever more complex diseases increases, so does the age and fragility of the population, and there is commensurate increase in the cost. We've added about 10 years to the average life expectancy since the NHS was introduced in the 1950s, but those extra years are exponentially more expensive to support.

[Phil O'Sophical]

but those extra years are exponentially more expensive to support.

We also have the knowledge to treat many more problems, but the drugs and equipment for them are hugely expensive. No-one in the 1950s expected routine heart bypasses or cancer-busting drugs to be even possible, never mind paid by the NHS.

[werdsmith]

use to be able to ring my doctor up at 8am and get an appointment the same day, now there is very

Exactly what I did today. Called at 8:30, given appointment for 11:50, arrived at 11:45 and only sat waiting for 30 seconds before I was called in.

I commented to the Dr about this, and he said they been working on it and sorting it out.

My only complaint I had is the £9 at the pharmacy.

[John Mangan]

Re: How are you counting those jobs?

Not to mention the 'ghost' jobs that are just there to harvest CVs.

A few years ago when looking for a job I read a description that was word for word identical to one that a former colleague had written (it had first been advertised when I worked with him).

Thinking to short-circuit the whole agency thing I rang him direct to be told that, yes, that was his advert but, no, he wasn't recruiting.

That's as well as the jobs that you ring up and ask if they are still short-listing and after receiving a reply in the affirmative you send your CV in. 24 hours later when you ring to see if it was considered suitable you find that 'budgets have been modified', 'the business is restructuring' or some other bollocks.

Job adverts are very little indication of anything - except that recruitment agents are scum..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an EU citizen working in the UK at the moment but I'm waiting for the jobs on the mainland to appear in November as UK passport holders become unable to work across borders.

[Cederic]

As someone about to begin a job search in the UK I'm fully expecting British companies to retain their EU staff in November, whether we're in the EU or not.

The differences in our expectations help explain why I want us to leave.

[Phil O'Sophical]

as UK passport holders become unable to work across borders.

Nonsense. UK citizens were always able to work in Europe before the EU was created, and can work in many other countries without problems. There are as many UK citizens living and working in the US & Canada than in other EU countries (excluding Ireland). The main difference is going to be paperwork, and the need to arrange permission to work before arrival. More difficult, but certainly not impossible. Compared to all the other cultural adaptations needed it really shouldn't be a major additional sticking point (I speak as a UK expat living in another EU country)

[Roland6]

>UK citizens were always able to work in Europe before the EU was created

The situation before the EU existed is not a good indicator of the situation post-Brexit with the EU27.

The main difference is going to be paperwork, and the need to arrange permission to work before arrival.

That effectively kills all short-term contract work. Currently I get significantly more work from my EU27 clients than from my RoW clients, mainly because of that paperwork and the travel costs/expenses...

[Dan 55]

UK citizens living in the EU on exit day will be locked into their country of residency for work purposeses and if they wanted to work in the country next door they would have to give up residency in the country they're resident in now (and be categorised for immigration purposes as a post-Brexit UK citizen instead of a pre-Brexit one).

Also cross-border workers aren't covered in the withdrawal agreement either.

All of which sucks if you're a Brit living in Benelux, so the OP was entirely right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes

I'm the OP and I did say "across borders" not "in the EU". For the record, I like my British colleagues and I think Brexit is an insane idea but I'm not above taking advantage of their misfortune. There are going to be lots of UK businesses that are relocating to Germany/Luxembourg/Dublin/wherever that will want English speaking staff who can move between their new offices.

[Anonymous Coward]

There will be full employment in the UK IT sector after BREXIT

All 3 jobs....

[RLWatkins]

Why Brexit to begin with?

Given all the problems it's causing, why is Britain even still considering this?

Why not have another referendum, since it was discovered that so much Russian money was behind the PR preceding the first one?

Why are the British letting ASBO Bo dine out on this one, instead of just dropping the idea? (If you did, maybe he'd go away....)

Come to think of it, given that we have Trumplestilskin and you have ASBO Bo, has something gone seriously wrong with the governance of what used to be civilized, English-speaking countries?

This is all profoundly perplexing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Why Brexit to begin with?

Why not have another referendum, since it was discovered that so much Russian money was behind the PR preceding the first one?

Leaving out the FUD about the Russians, the main reason is that there's no indication that people have changed their minds in significant numbers, so any new referendum would still be a toss-up, probably between 51-51 % leave to 51-52% remain. Neither of those results would actually stop the arguments, a tiny majority for remain would just prolong the agony as leavers demanded yet another referendum.

[Roland6]

Re: Why Brexit to begin with?

>Given all the problems it's causing, why is Britain even still considering this?

Because there is a distinct lack of adults in the Conservative party and with hindsight a situation that has existed since the mid-1990's. Additionally, somewhere in the last 10~20 years Westminster (and the Conservatives in particular) have become obsessed with opinion polls and thus will practically do anything if it results in them being "more popular".

Because of this Brexit is going to be a mess regardless of deal, no deal, rescind Art.50.

The shame is that Brexit could be a significant contributor to the UK meeting its climate change and sustainability targets....

[codejunky]

Re: Why Brexit to begin with?

@RLWatkins

"Given all the problems it's causing, why is Britain even still considering this?"

Because it isnt brexit that is causing the problems. The UK was dragged into the EU without a say and the voters have been insisting on having a say (even if the result is remain at least its then our choice). Unfortunately we have had a government who sold us off to the EU because the PM (Blair) wanted a high up position in the EU. Imagine being sold off by your government, why would you tolerate it?

So we finally get a say and we voted to leave. So the UK doesnt want to be in the EU but the ruling few insisted we must, and have so far managed to drag out leaving even though the uncertainty is a problem (not the actual leaving). The leaving isnt causing this damage its the uncertainty, which is caused by the few doing their best to stop the democratic result. Why would we consider abandoning democracy just because the few rulers dont want brexit?

"Why not have another referendum, since it was discovered that so much Russian money was behind the PR preceding the first one?"

Every time we have a vote it is somehow not valid for some poor reason. The Russian angle is amusing and rubbish but without any real excuses that is what we get. The population was directly threatened by the gov to vote remain, is that not a problem? We have a general election where brexit is again the supported option. We have an MEP election we shouldnt have been in the EU for, and again voted for brexit. How many votes do we need and we all know there will be no more votes once we have the 'right' answer. Why would we put up with that?

"Why are the British letting ASBO Bo dine out on this one, instead of just dropping the idea?"

Because unfortunately we had spineless Cameron who ran with his tail between his legs, May who tried to trap us in the EU and while starting with a little promise she quickly stopped brexit until she couldnt hold on any longer. So now we have someone who just wants votes. Hopefully he will get us out. But at no point has the problem been from someone trying to leave the EU.

"Come to think of it, given that we have Trumplestilskin and you have ASBO Bo, has something gone seriously wrong with the governance of what used to be civilized, English-speaking countries?"

The EU continues so yes there is a problem with governance. And since most countries speak english (which pisses off certain EU nationalists) that doesnt shrink the world much. Why would people vote for Trump and brexit? Until their opponents wrap their heads around that then they will be perplexed. Instead they stick to throwing labels and thinking they are superior because they 'baa' as a group.

If you want to be perplexed try the Scottish nationalist who wants to be part of the EU.