back to article Trump: Huawei ban will be lifted!
US Commerce Dept.: Yeah, about that…

The US Department of Commerce is holding strong on the ban on US firms selling kit to Huawei, despite word from the White House that sanctions against the Chinese firm might be lifted. A report from Reuters cites sources within the DOC who say staff members have been told by leadership that US companies are still prohibited …

  1. Danny Boyd
    Thumb Down

    "Might be lifted", "Will be lifted" and "Is lifted" are not exactly one and the same thing. DOC is not "holding strong on the ban", they merely state that the ban hasn't been lifted yet.

    1. Kernel

      So, you're basically saying that if you were in DOC's position you wouldn't be making official policy decisions based on some random tweet from the Great Orange Pillock?

      Oh, ye of little faith.

      Say what you like about the man, but there's no denying that he's a great source of on-going entertainment - just so long as there's always a grown-up between him and any button that does anything more than ring the White House doorbell.

      1. Danny Boyd

        I'm merely saying that DOC stated the fact that the ban is still in force. DOC didn't say "Oh no you won't!" when Trump said the ban *might be* lifted.

      2. macjules Silver badge

        PBCNLB: Problem Between Chair and Nuclear Launch Button

    2. macjules Silver badge

      "Might be lifted", "Will be lifted" and "Is lifted" are not exactly one and the same thing.

      With populist politics I'm afraid that they are one and the same.

      1. Warm Braw Silver badge

        I think in the end it will depend on whether the Orangenius believes Huawei is where Obama was born.

        1. jmch Silver badge

          "Huawei is where Obama was born"

          Double thumbs up for that one!! :)

      2. Nick Kew

        With populist politics I'm afraid that they are one and the same.

        Who knew Christians were ahead of the game, with the Holy Spirit three-in-one?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

      As described, the US government's treatment of Huawei comes straight out of the IBM playbook for weakening and finally getting rid of competition.

      Back in the 1950s and 1969s it was christened "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" (FUD). IBM sales people, calling on a customer who had decided to buy from CDC, Burroughs, ICL or some other credible mainframe supplier, would not allow themselves to be constrained by the fact that IBM would not have a comparable machine for 2, 3 or even 5 years.

      Instead, they would talk earnestly about the great risks involved in buying from a less well established supplier with fewer resources of all kinds. The uncertainty of the market - what would happen in a few years if things go wrong?

      Finally, the coup de grace: making it clear to the confused buyer that "nobody was ever fired for buying from IBM".

      That's exactly what Washington is doing now, in a rather obvious and amateurish attempt to shake customers' confidence in China and its products.

      1. james_smith

        Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

        This is hurting US businesses harder than it's hurting Huawei. All it will do in the long run is damage those US businesses even more, as Chinese fabs start knocking out alternatives to the banned components.

        1. Jon 37

          Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

          Yep. This is a wake up call to China and the rest of the world: Don't depend on US parts because they can cause you serious problems with no notice. Develop your IPR elsewhere.

          1. JJKing

            Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

            Develop Steal your IPR elsewhere.


      2. NeilPost Silver badge

        Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

        “Finally, the coup de grace: making it clear to the confused buyer that "nobody was ever fired for buying from IBM".”

        I’ll remember to ask Lenovo about that. Chinese n’all.

        1. teknopaul Silver badge

          Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

          Nobody was ever fired for selling off IBM.

      3. SWCD

        Re: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

        A bit of FUD I always liked was re: the Amstrad PC1512.

        Ran perfectly well without a fan (and without noise) but rumours started that the lack of fan would lead to overheating. Later models had a fan fitted which didn't do a thing except hum! Those in the know would disconnect them and have a silent computer.

  2. Roger B

    But but but Ivanka's trade mark registrations....the Trump 2020 promotional tat, the promise of Trump 2024 promotional tat, the hotel branding, the golf course, does the DOC not realise they are messing with the orders from the supreme commander?

    Also, this messes up with my comment from 4 months ago when I predicted Huawei would be seen as being an okay company again and I don't like that, not one bit.

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      @Roger B

      Are you saying in 2024 that Ivanka is going to stand for election?

      As for the Entity list, I don't think the Orange Oaf fully understands the consequences of his decrees. It's not enough to just say ' It's all right now' and have everything undone, stopping an avalanche requires a bit more effort than starting one.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Re: "stopping an avalanche requires a bit more effort than starting one"

        You do realize that you're talking about someone who has never had to clean up after himself in his whole life ?

        Trump has never stopped anything, he just says "stop that thing" and underlings scurry about to get it done or else they will be fired. With that kind of mentality, how can he possibly care how much effort it takes ? He's never made an effort in his life.

        1. Potemkine! Silver badge

          Re: "stopping an avalanche requires a bit more effort than starting one"

          He's never made an effort in his life.

          Wrong! He did a lot of efforts to avoid to be sent fighting in Vietnam.

          1. IT Poser

            Re: Wrong! He did a lot of efforts to avoid to be sent fighting in Vietnam.

            Sorry for the downvote because overall we commiserate. Unfortunately Father "Fart", if I'm translating the British euphemism correctly, did the deeds.

      2. jmch Silver badge

        " 2024 that Ivanka is going to stand for election"

        Wouldn't be altogether unsurprising, since US politics seems headed for some weird House-of-Cards-Game-of-Thrones hybrid.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          It looks more like Love Island to me :-)

          (No, never actually watched it, but it's hard not to keep coming across it when it makes news headlines every so often)

        2. Just Enough
          IT Angle

          She can't MAGA

          The word is that even the most fervent of Trumpites aren't that keen on Ivanka. Too much of a pinko liberal apparently. Also it can not be ignored that, while she has the great leader's genes, she is fatally compromised by also genetically being a woman.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: She can't MAGA

            "even the most fervent of Trumpites aren't that keen on Ivanka"

            of course not, she's a woman.

          2. RuffianXion

            Re: She can't MAGA

            'The word is that even the most fervent of Trumpites aren't that keen on Ivanka'

            Oh I don't know, the most fervent Trumpite of all (Trump himself) seems pretty keen on her...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        For all Nicola Sturgeon hates him, she sounds more like him everyday - "CLIMATE EMERGENCY" gets yelled out at convention out of the blue, 3+ years of work on Air Departure Tax abolition suddenly torn up and the entire membership and activist base starts trying to out green Patrick Harvie, claiming that the "real extremists" aren't XR and various other drivel clearly sent down from SNP High Command.

        Reminds me a lot also of North Korea, where the dear leader proclaims something and every underling (no matter their previous stated positions) are suddenly scrambling to parrot from the hymn book and back the leader 1100%.

        All while doing nothing about the burning of wood causing huge local air pollution - "there isn't a consensus yet on the impact" (no consensus on fracking but lets ban that) (read friends in industry don't like it and we've decided that industry "studies" carry more weight than reams of scientific studies about the hazards of wood burning to public health), "Its carbon neutral" "its sustainable", "The problem is that people aren't burning clean and dry wood" (no that still causes problems) "there's a review being done by Professor Gemmell of our air quality strategy" (read it will be buried if he says anything that the dear leader doesn't like the sound of) "I'm aware you have some issues with their usage" (yeah they cause bronchospasm, penetrates into my house and poisons my air, along with spews NOx (you know the stuff they went after diesel for), PM10, PM2.5, CO, SO2, NH3 and vast quantities of Soot and CO2 out. Woodsmoke seemingly being a high level carcinogen, but lets not do anything, lets kick it into the long grass and at the same time announce that 20% of Scottish Agricultural land be turned over to forestry and the air quality will be worse than 1950s London soon, but hey no gas burnt and that makes it green in their eyes. They also are no better than Michael Gove of the Conservative Party and worse did a deal with them to slacken the planning system further.

        Just waiting for them to cut a deal with Boris / Hunt for an IndyRef 2 in exchange for a Confidence/Supply Deal......

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Seems I've touched a nerve with the SNP faithful / XR cultists....

          Lets also add - claim they could set up an independent nation in 18 months, but have kicked the PIP replacement out to 2023, thats only 4 years away and not much different to PIP, tweaks around the edges but still the same flawed UnumProvident designed system of ignoring the specialists actually treating the patient and familiar with the case in favour of "NHS Workers" so no different to "health professionals employed by ATOS.

          NHS short staffed permanently and health boards blamed (answer its not solely the health boards' fault, its also chronic underfunding coupled with a requirement to have balanced budgets ASAP, causing hidden service cuts and soaring waiting times) Also asleep at the wheel over the new sick kids hospital in Edinburgh

          Mental Health chronically under resourced and Carseview in Dundee an ongoing scandal and left open and procedures unchanged while an "inquiry" was conducted, leaving vulnerable patients at risk of further abuse. Also good mental health treatment facilities in Perth at Murray Royal Hospital and Mulberry Unit at Stracathro closed down (Mulberry recently opened at several million pounds cost to the taxpayer, provided very very good care by all accounts and closed under shaky justification, Scot gov wholly supportive, which suggests edict came from above as risk of vote loss had carseview been closed was too high (carseview physically assaulted and abused numerous vulnerable patients)

          Police performance generally appalling still

          Bottle deposit tax brought in under shaky justification and false claims of recyclables being a cost (plastics and metals are sold at a profit)

          Wages stagnant in Scotland for years, construction industry etc massive skills shortage yet no funding for adult conversion courses, apprentice funding still clings to old 16 to 24 model and SJIB allowed to run a closed shop - To get the card to allow you to work on construction sites in Scotland, you need to apply to SJIB who have dictated a requirement of an SJIB approved apprenticeship, done at a company who is a paid up SJIB member unlike England which has the cards issued by a wholly separate agency than that which handles the apprenticeships etc. 1950s still ever present in Scotland. Colleges stripping out adult practical skills conversion courses in favour of 90% classroom watered down NCs "the apprentices will do the practical stuff in the workplace, we need to get them doing english and maths here, anything practical we can do in PC simulations, AR and VR will handle the rest and we can then shut down those dangerous and grimy workshops in favour of some more lovely safe and clean computer suites.

          Tuition fees supposedly free, but funding strictly limited to 4 years, post grad tuition fees still charged for and doctoral courses wholly unfunded. So much for high skills economy.

          New social housing act, claimed to give tenants new rights, on reading most of these are rights for the council or social housing provider to terminate tenancies in new ways (you MUST notify your landlord of anyone who is living at your address even on a temporary basis or they may terminate your tenancy immediately, your landlord may rehouse you at their discretion at anytime and without giving notice, your landlord may require you to move to a smaller property at any time without giving a reason and so it goes on and on and on and on)

          Not that the opposition are any better, Ruth Davidson and her upper crust cabal, Richard Leonard and his "free bus passes for all", Willie Rennie (who I think his party struggle to remember who he is, grey man is an understatement) Patrick Harvie - enjoying his role as Scotland's answer to the DUP, given sweeties to keep the SNP in power.

          Nicola only gets away with as much as she does due to a lack of any real opposition or electoral threat, if there was any then she wouldn't have kowtowed to XR so rapidly, though most of the rest were all too rapid to jump on the bandwagon, despite their Scottish support being near non existent and much of the "rebel camp" at holyrood being made up of those who came from elsewhere in Europe (funny how the BBC couldn't find more than 1 or 2 Scots to interview, but plenty of XR activists from England, Italy etc etc) XR a group opposed to democracy and wants a revolution ala Vietnam, Russia etc to quote Hallam "I only need 3.5% of the population to achieve my aims" and another XR quote "if our demands are not met then we will continue our campaign", a line commonly used by terrorist groups......

      4. Roger B

        Yep, she's already been pushed by her dad to become head of the world bank, next he'll have her on stage with him and as he tries to focus his wandering eyes and a straying hand, he'll declare what a great president she would make and the crowd will go wild.

      5. Robert Moore
        Paris Hilton

        Are you saying in 2024 that Ivanka is going to stand for election?

        I rather doubt there will be a US election in 2024. All hail President for life, Trumpy the first.

  3. Spanners Silver badge
    Big Brother

    What about Google

    Will these "proposed" changes allow google to do business with Huawei again?

    At some point in the future,I will probably replace my phone. but the SCROTUS was blocking my most likely choice. This will have had little to do with protecting the world from Chinese spookery and was perhaps aimed at boosting sales of iThings.

    Apple kit is not even on my "perhaps" list and no amount of DIY trade wars by Mr Trump will get it on.

  4. Shardik

    But... But... Security

    But.... But... Chinese snooping... I mean, that was what this was all about wasn't it? but all of a sudden that's not an issue cos... trade...

    I just don't get how anybody can be bothered reporting the Orange Goblins ravings (in a factual way, not El. Reg style :)), believing it, or allowing it to be used to influence other 'allies' when the reasoning behind it couldn't even be described as tenuous. How much more obvious does protectionism have to be before somebody stands up and calls them on it?

    And we want to be #1 trading partners with these guys??? Ok, no trading relationship is perfect but why would we trade trade stability for an unpredictable agreement with a willy waiver?

  5. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    im confused

    I thought the ban was on using the stuff , not selling components to Huwaii

    who gives a shit if i / you / them sells components to people who make machines that might contain spyware?

    JUST dont buy the machines. simples.

    We can sell jet fighters to neanderthals who oppress and enslave half their population so that they can commit genocide on their neighbour , but we cant sell a few chips and capacitors to the Chinese in case they make some malware.

    am i reading this right?

    1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: im confused

      I thought the ban was on using the stuff , not selling components to Huwaii

      who gives a shit if i / you / them sells components to people who make machines that might contain spyware?

      I think it meant blocking them from American "intellectual property", and hardware that they can then clone/bootleg. Or at least slow them down (tooling up to make their own replacements for American components would still take them some time). Or such is my impression.

    2. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

      Re: im confused

      The ban was on selling them stuff with real IP (vs theft) and on using their stuff in an American jurisdiction (vs wider theft + security risks). All Trump said this week was that he's agreed to allow sales of real but immaterial IP. Which opens the immediate + commodity trade sluices but maintains the core protection.

      As to "why?", check out section 47 on page 19-20 here [PDF] for an indication, or note prior ElReg commentards who've observed that, eg, Huawei kit they did deepdives on ran on blatantly stolen code:

      On July 10, 2013 ... HUA WEI CHINA launched a formal policy instituting a bonus program to reward employees who stole confidential information from competitors.

      Under the policy, HUA WEI CHINA established a formal schedule for rewarding employees for stealing information from competitors based upon the confidential value of the information obtained.

      Employees were directed to post confidential information obtained from other companies on an internal Huawei website, or, in the case of especially sensitive information, to send an encrypted email to a special email mailbox.

      A "competition management group" was tasked with reviewing the submissions and awarding monthly bonuses to the employees who provided the most valuable stolen information. Biannual awards also were made available to the top three regions that provided the most valuable information. The policy emphasized that no employees would be punished for taking actions in accordance with the policy

      1. robot66

        Re: im confused

        Oh yes, Tappy the Robot. That seems to be the only thing people can point to and they do repeatedly. It is not IP that goes in a product and it is pretty obvious.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    so not spyware after all. At least until it is again.

    Trump is a genius, he realized people have become immune and indifferent to anything-goes-in-politics-politics :(

    1. Giovani Tapini

      Re: spyware

      You know, the really funny thing is, that if Huawei stop using Android it directly compromises the potential for data harvesting by US social media/advertising firms (and uncle sam by proxy) from the platform as consumers would have to opt-in rather than be collected by default.

      Its a funny old world nowadays

  7. batfink Silver badge

    Well I'm now reassured

    I was quite terrified there for a while, after our esteemed colleagues in the USA assured me that those nasty Huawei people were a security risk, and that nobody in the world should be using their gear.

    However I now understand that Huawei isn't a security risk after all. Phew. I now feel much safer in my bed.

    Of course, I will still 100% believe any future announcements about security risks from the same sources. After all, if you can't trust the government of the USA, who can you trust?

    1. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Well I'm now reassured

      >after our esteemed colleagues in the USA...

      They will fall into one of two distinct categories. One group -- the more technical sorts -- will have by now suffered severe eye strain from the continual rolling of eyes. Just assume that anything that comes out of the US federal government is about as credible as anything that comes from the UK government.

      The other group will consist of a mess of pundits, marketing and PR types who's job is to take everything their told seriously and repeat it for anyone gullible enough to listen. They're a variant on what used to be called 'jobsworths' in the UK -- their job isn't to think or ask questions, just take what they're told and run with it. (...after all, the Fuhrer knows best....)

  8. _LC_ Silver badge

    By now, everybody knows not to rely on US technology

    By now, everybody knows not to rely on US technology (including Europe, which is being “tackled” now). Replace it where you can, as fast as possible – that’s the new doctrine.

    1. lglethal Silver badge

      Re: By now, everybody knows not to rely on US technology

      Nothing new about it. Ever since ITAR got serious (end of the 90's if my memory serves), making ITAR free versions of your kit has been a good sales point. It basically means dont by American components unless you really have to.

      Pity for all of the American suppliers, but thats the way it is. ITAR is absolutely not worth the hassle...

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: By now, everybody knows not to rely on US technology

      if you can manage to make a 'droid compatible phone OS and ship it out of Finland or some other country that has a lot of competent software engineers that understand cell phones, go for it.

      I'd love to see competition there.

      1. _LC_ Silver badge

        Re: By now, everybody knows not to rely on US technology

        Finland has fewer inhabitants than many a large metropolis. There are numerous countries that could do/finance this.

  9. Reg Reader 1

    Security risk or not, we in the developed economies, need to move a lot of manufacturing back to the countries in which we live for our own security. I think that something Trump will be known for is proving that no country can be counted on as a stable trade or defence partner. Canada, for instance, exports huge amounts of its finite natural resources unfinished to other countries. We leave a lot of money out of our economy by not exporting finished goods.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      I'd buy stuff that said "made in Canada".

      Someone that I know works at the Canadian/U.S. Border (Customs agent). Apparently a LOT of lumber crosses the border there.

      /me sings the Monty Python 'Lumberjack' song since I'm thinking of it now

      actually there's this one Canadian company that makes circuit boards, and they're one of the fastest I've seen at doing prototypes for designs. FedEx results back in 5 working days from when I submit the designs. I've submitted them electronically on a Sunday (evening) and received boards on Thursday. It's pretty cool.

    2. Big_Boomer Silver badge


      A marvellous idea, so you are willing to pay $500 for an item made in Canada rather than $200 for an utterly identical item made in China? No? Thought not. Nobody is. 50 years ago it was Taiwan, then Japan, South Korea, Thailand, now China, and next probably India/Cambodia/Myanmar.

      The problem with manufacturing is wages, so historically most manufacturing goes to those countries with the cheapest wages. The cost of the product at point of sale is what matters to people in our consumer society. In the "Western world" we are better off investing in low volume bespoke products that the cheap wage economies can't do or aren't interested in as we will never be able to compete in an "open" market. Fartus (and others) ideas of protectionism is doomed to failure as always. Oh it may work short term, but long term not a chance.

  10. EnviableOne Silver badge

    Huawei are not backdored specifically by the PRC and never have been,

    they dont have to go to the effort, as GCHQ have said, their code is so shoddy and full of holes, anyone can get in

    But they have advances in the practical application that are unmatched by anything comming of of Trumpistan, so effectivley, by blocking Huawei, Trump is holding up the progress of the US communications market.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      not backdored specifically by the PRC and never have been

      their code is so shoddy and full of holes, anyone can get in

      So much like every other vendor. Both Eircom & Vodfone supply Huawei modem/routers in Ireland. Only the ISP can do a firmware update, like a cable modem. Also by default Eircom shares your WiFi to other Eircom Users (so called Eir, they are Eircom, registered in Channel Is to avoid tax, like Apple is now.). That is turned off (allegedly) deep in a website you have to register on. Not visible on the LAN configuration page.

      So my objection to Huawei is that it gives ISP too much control and is too like Belkin. I use a different DSL/VDSL modem/Router.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: not backdored specifically by the PRC and never have been

        So shoddy that CISCO coped the entire github repo (icluding private keys) into their product.

    2. Uffish

      Never twice the same product.

      Many years ago a company I worked at drifted into a 'constant improvement' mindset. Products were changed to suit new contracts, newly available or cheaper components, response to competitors etc etc.

      Manufacturing gamely tried to keep up with the changes but but many 'insufficiently documented' variants were manufactured and delivered. This seemed acceptable at first but customer complaints mounted and mounted. They never really recovered customer confidence.

  11. Cynic_999 Silver badge

    Trade control ends up weakening control

    It is impossible to withhold technology from a country that has the capability of reproducing that technology. If you refuse to sell it, it will be leaked or reverse-engineered sooner rather than later - you are just encouraging the country to become self-sufficient. Then you end up not only losing control of the technology and knowledge of how much the country in question is using, but you create a competitor in the World market.

  12. ArildVollan

    Can European authorities stand against the US 5G pressure?

    It may have far-reaching consequences if Europe is forced to choose a side for 5G, with one of the great powers, the United States or China.

    Prohibiting Huawei is one thing, but the US refuses all its allies to trade with Huawei has completely different consequences. For Trump does not limit his war to being alone against China. He wants everyone in his 5G war against Huawei and China. What happened at the G20 meeting is just part of the game from Trump.

    Can European authorities stand against the US pressure?

    Trump does it because he can. Everything is about his ego and the willingness to stand out, and so he has built his private business empire. He forgets, or perhaps is not interested in, what diplomacy really is about, "promoting his interests without using war." For the exercise of power we now witness results in a trade war where everyone is losing.

    For Europe, Trumps demands will be a large increase in the cost of developing the 5G network. The reason is that 5G is a seamless transition from 4G. This necessarily means that all countries must disassemble all of today's Huawei 4G base stations. At an additional cost of about US $ 60,000 for each Huawei base station to be dismantled, - to set up a new 4G base station from Nokia or Ericsson.

    According to Reuters, citing an analysis by the GSM operators' organization GSMA, a Huawei exclusion would have a potential additional cost of USdollar 62 billion. In addition, the development will be delayed throughout Europe, and that one may be forced to choose a quality-poorer solution.

    For a small country like Norway (5 million inhabitants), it is estimated that the Norwegian additional cost is US $ 3.25 billion – just over NOK 28 billion. Norway currently has 14,000 Huawei base stations that must be removed, – to set up new Chinese-produced base stations from Ericsson or Nokia.

    The irony is that boycotting Huawei will simply lead to employees and expertise leaving one Chinese company for another.

    Even if Europe opts for Ericsson or Nokia, it will still use Chinese 5G products. All technology companies have one thing in common, much of their equipment is produced in Chinese factories.

    Nokia and Ericsson have 12,000 employees in China for the production of the companies’ 5G networks. In addition, they have cooperation agreements with many Chinese factories for delivering components to the companies’ 5G networks.

    American inspectors have probably not called in at Nokia Shanghai Bell or they would have realised that Nokia is, in a real sense, a Chinese company.

    Most 5G components are produced in China anyway, so it is puzzling that the US insists Europe cannot use Huawei technology.

    Ericsson has six R&D centers in China, with totally 5000 R&D engineers. 90% of Ericsson product involved five Chinese R&D center. Nanjing Ericsson Panda has developed into the world’s largest supply center for Ericsson. 40% of Ericsson’s global shipments come from here, and the localization rate of products is close to 100%.

    For Nokia 7,000 employees in China focusing on customers, service, R&D, manufacturing and supply chain.

    Nokia has six R&D innovation hubs and three manufacturing facilities. If Europe boycotts Huawei, Nokia has the plans ready: Adding 2500 new Chinese employees.

    Why should Europe pay the costs, take the risks and gamble with their economic development and growth? Blindly following the US will have enormous consequences for European business. It will delay the development and deployment of artificial intelligence and the next generation of wireless services, just to support the US’ new-found policy of protectionism.

    During the 2019 Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, US President Donald Trump tweeted that he wanted the US to win markets for its technology “through competition, not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies”. The president has pointed out that the US would not boycott Huawei if he got a good trade deal with China…

    Huawei is being used in America’s trade – Please see her:

    The US Presidents words reveal what this is really all about – Huawei is being used as leverage in America’s trade war against China. The US is locked in a struggle over who gets to control two technologies: artificial intelligence and the next generation of wireless services, like 5G.

    So far, the US has not managed to produce any evidence that Chinese 5G technology poses a security risk, and Huawei is now taking legal steps against the American administration as a result of the way it has been treated.

    Read this article in SCMP: “Can Europe pay the price of following the US’ Huawei boycott?” –

    This is today’s simple political thesis from the United States: “To gather national strength, just create an enemy.”

    In Europe, the Americans are doing this daily on many levels, from small businesses to countries and the continent itself. It is apparent from the media coverage last year that China has been designated “the great danger”.

    How dare the Americans speak out against Chinese espionage, when they are reported to have tapped German ministers’ phones – and even Chancellor Angela Merkel’s?“ Please see here: Europe shouldn’t naively fall for US hype against China –

  13. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Who is that man with a dead fox on his head?

    1. Mage Silver badge

      dead fox

      It's a weasel.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: dead fox

        ..... with a dead fox on its head

        1. hplasm

          Re: dead fox

          Huwawei? Wear the fox hat...

  14. Jastoner

    I have Huawei smartwatches and everything is ok with google apps

  15. Palpy

    US economic dominance --

    -- is fading. Trump's trade wars make it fade faster.

    The US has gone from comprising around 50% of the global GDP in the 1950s to around 25% now.

    One of the consequences of on-again-off-again bans and tariffs is that companies try to reconfigure their supply chains to avoid vendors in national economies which they see as unreliable. Unreliable, right now, means Trump's America.


    Frederick Kempe: "What's clear already is that friends and rivals are more interested than ever before in exploring alternatives to the U.S.-dominated system. Such a transition would take many years, involve enormous costs and unfold in stages. However, consistent overuse of U.S. economic power has made the unthinkable more plausible."

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: US economic dominance --

      "is fading. Trump's trade wars make it fade faster."

      so says your opinion without any evidence. And yet, the U.S. economy has been steadily growing since Trump signed the first executive order... and to some extent, right after the election in anticipation of same.

      No matter how you try to obfuscate the truth, state opinions as if they were facts, and blame Trump for it, you can't deny that his policies are WORKING.

      Wages are up. Unemployment is down. And the thing that matters the MOST for international agreements, that BOTH SIDES benefit from it [not just a one-sided bend-over-and-expose-my-anus "agreement" like what one-world-order politicians dealt out since Bush I), then you end up with where we're headed right now...

      U.S. economic dominance comes from one thing: Freedom. Free thinking, Free markets, and the freedom to COMPETE properly. Get GUMMINT out of the way, and KEEP IT OUT OF THE WAY. THAT will get you ECONOMIC DOMINANCE.

      So if you want such a thing in UK, then GET THE SOCIALISM OUT OF THE WAY. And do the "Brexit".

      When a job returns to "an exchange of work for money at the market rate", and is no longer "a right" or "a demand" or something worse [basic income being ONE example], then people actually WORK HARDER and get MORE done in LESS time because, if they do NOT, they are REPLACED by those who WILL.

      And that is a GOOD thing.

      1. LyingMan

        Re: US economic dominance --

        Hi Bob,

        The planet you live is so fantastic! Wish we all could be transported there. But we need to drink so much kool aid to reach there, it is physically not possible for us mere mortals. We do aspire to be like you one day!

        Until then you stay on that planet please and don't return to earth.


      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: US economic dominance --

        Hi Bob!

        was wondering when you were going to show up with your 6th grade understanding of economics.

        You're like Candyman or Beetlejuice whenever Trump is mentioned 3 times in a comment thread.

        How was the Trump speech for you yesterday? My favourite bit was when he mentioned the americans overrunning the airports in the 18th century war of independence.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: US economic dominance --

      I just occurred to me, is MAGA ironic?

  16. Slx

    The older, established telcos are also notoriously conservative when it comes to choice of vendors, many of them have been buying whatever it is that Ericsson has had in the catalogue since the 1950s and possibly even 1920s. It's the same with the companies that Nokia now owns : remnants of Western Electric/Lucent/Bell Labs, ITT, Alcatel, Siemens Networks and Nokia itself. I remember talking to an engineer in a major Irish telco who considered Cisco a bit of a of an 'upstart'... and this was in the 2000s!

    Huawei had established a strong reputation through smaller telcos that had disrupted the market and then the bigger ones eventually started buying their equipment too, but I'd say this move will have driven them back to the safety of the old vendor partnerships.

    I'd say this move will really have done them and other Chinese vendors enormous damage and I doubt it was deserved.

    The slight irony is that the major vendors in that area aren't American. It will probably drive a lot of infrastructure business back to Ericsson, Nokia, Samsung, Fujitsu etc

  17. Sanctimonious Prick


    I'm just... triggered!

  18. Andrew Jones 2

    What about FTTC?

    I personally love the fact that all the news headlines are always about 5G, even the UK networks are talking about not using Huawei kit - or replacing existing Huawei kit. But never does anyone mention - hey, what about the >80% of Fibre Cabinets we all rely on to get online with Fibre, they are full of Huawei kit, the competitor ECI did not do a great job with realtime vectoring and Huawei were apparently the only company who could step up to the job and provide BT with the technology required.

    So what I don't understand is why everyone so terrified about the possibility that Huawei might be spying using our mobile networks, but no-one was at all bothered that Huawei could get vast amounts of information by spying at the Fibre level?

    Was it by any chance, because the cost of replacing every Huawei cabinet in the country with an alternative (which may not actually exist) was both prohibitively expensive and also would have set the Fibre rollout back by at least half a decade?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: What about FTTC?

      Remember there is nothing specially risky about Huawei, just that they are Chinese

      So you also need to rip out any other kit made/designed/installed by a Chinese owned company

  19. steviebuk Silver badge

    Can't they just..

    ...speak to China. Take some of their own company money to setup a legit business in China, registered only in China. So a company the orange one can't dictate too. Then they sell their electronic part to the Chinese company, who then sells those part to Huawei. All the orange one could do when found out is put the new Chinese company on a ban list.

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