back to article Nope, we're stuffed, shrieks Apple channel as iPhone shipments enter a double-digit spiral

It isn’t just in China that Apple’s feeling the burn of shrinking iPhone sales. The reassuringly expensive mobe maker is, we're told, shipping millions fewer handsets in Western, Central and Eastern Europe, too. IDC’s stats this week show Apple slipped from second to third spot in the vendor sales stakes in the first quarter …

  1. Korev Silver badge

    I wanted to buy an iPhone last year as the XR has (almost) dual sim, I took one look at the cost and bought an Android phone... I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    An unscientific look at my FB feed last year would show people complaining about the lack of a "SE2" in addition.

    1. BigSLitleP

      I'd agree with that last line. Still have my original SE, why would i pay almost £1000 for a new phone?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Wo

          Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

          This is sad news indeed.

          I am hoping in Sept/Oct they announce a new smaller handset

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

            "I am hoping in Sept/Oct they announce a new smaller handset"

            I remember the old days when an iPhone was the "perfect" size and no one would ever want a different size, either smaller or larger. There would never be a market for them.

        2. Adrian Harvey
          Go

          Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

          Not true according to Apple - Support list includes SE and 6S (to be expected as innards are basically the same). 6 and 5S are dropped though, so not all good news :-(

          I think a few pundits rumoured the dropping before Apple announced IOS13 - so I would hazard a guess that your information source was just a little dated...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

            They dropped phones that shipped with 1 GB of RAM, most likely that was the determining factor. Perhaps the work they did to further speed things up on older phones uses more RAM for caching etc. so they had to cull those.

            Still, it isn't like this FORCES owners of 5S/6 to upgrade. If dropping updates was all it took most Android phones would need replacement 18 months after purchase.

        3. Warm Braw Silver badge

          Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

          will have to look to replace

          Why? In the world of Android it's quite usual for your phone to be denied updates. It doesn't stop them working or require them to be discarded.

          1. Captain Scarlet

            Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

            Well yes but the Google store still apply its own updates for software such as the store, browser, etc...

            So although a manufacturer has dropped the handset there is still some form of updates.

            I don't honestly know if its the same for Apple, however they do normally support their handsets far longer (4-5 years, its the only thing I can't really fault them on. Its infuriating when items such as my work Blackberry DTEK stopped receiving manufacturer updates after I had it from new at 9 months).

            1. JohnFen

              Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

              " the Google store still apply its own updates for software such as the store, browser, etc."

              Not on my phone.

              1. Captain Scarlet

                Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

                What android phone have you got (I assume it has Google services but obviously might not)?

                1. JohnFen

                  Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

                  I run a custom ROM that omits all Google services, and I also run a firewall on it to ensure that nothing communicates out without me expressly allowing it. I backstop the on-phone firewall by using a VPN that I run out of my home, so all of my internet communications also goes through the firewall (and other defenses) I have there.

                  1. Captain Scarlet

                    Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

                    Ah ok so that makes sense

            2. doublelayer Silver badge

              Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

              After Apple drops support for a phone for large OS updates, it won't receive major updates to Apple-written apps like Safari. However, it will usually receive at least one more security update and can still run most updates to apps, as the store will continue to function. Usually, apps will support the most recent three OS releases (although in the days of IOS 12 it's typically been four). In addition, as already mentioned here, the iPhone SE will be supported under IOS 13.

        4. James O'Shea

          Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

          err... the SE _is_ supported by iOS 13, due out in September, and will therefore be supported to at least 2020. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/03/ios-13-compatible-devices/

          I have a SE, which is supported. I also have a 6, which is not. I figure that the 6 has at least two, probably three, more years life in it and the SE has three to four more years life, so I'm keeping the 6, even if Apple really wants me to buy a new phone and then it'll probably be an older phone, a 8, unless the pricing on the Xr or whatever's being sold then has come down. Similarly the SE will be replaced, eventually, by another iPhone (I had an Android phone, once, a few years ago. I didn't like it and replaced it with the SE and see no reason to go near Android ever again, not after the freezes, failed call, and general misbehaviour of thatr PoS) just not a 'flagship' phone or even a new model phone.

          But, hey, that's me. YMMV.

          1. NeilPost Silver badge

            Re: SE no longer supported end of 2019

            I still struggle with this, as although old - as has never been superseded- the SE is a shipping phone.... though seems to have evaporated from Apple’s website.

            The same bizarreness afflicted the original iPad Mini which came out at the same time as the iPad 4. The mini lost IOS about 2 years before the iPad 4.

      2. eldakka Silver badge

        But but if you don't buy a new £1000 phone, how can the billionaires become richer!

    2. 0laf Silver badge

      I did a similar thing and got a P20 Pro for half the price of the equivalent Apple. However If I need to replace it due to the choices of the Orange Orangutan and his UK lackies then it might end up costing me more. Still won't be buying an Apple though.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        The P20 is likely to last longer than the Orange Oaf.

        As for 'Access to Google' -- Google itself isn't happy about the Android ban. I'd guess because the threat by Huawei to produce an alternative OS is very real and because its not the first pass its likely to be a whole lot better than the original. (Google has an established product which typically means that it carries a lot of crud with it due to backward compatibility, 'seemed like a good idea at the time' coding quirks and so on -- its the penalty you pay for being the original vendor.) The value of the Google Play store and its myriad "applications" is also vastly overstated -- like all software, most people tend to use a functional subset of a product so much of the material is really just noise.

        I would buy a Huawei phone but as I live in the US my carriers only offer a couple of brands -- phones are typically purchased through carriers -- there's not a whole lot of choice. (I'm actually using an off-brand I bought through Amazon which could have been made by any of these Chinese phone companies.) I daresay everything will work out fine in the end and -- if we're really lucky -- politicians will learn that meddling with commercial activities to push some kind of dumb agenda tends to do more harm than good.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Our company has traditionally used iPhones, 95% the SE model. The company offers a fixed sum for the subsidy, anything over that and the employee has to pay - but they can't use the phone for private use and they can't install apps on it - all apps are pre-installed by the IT department. So there isn't really any incentive from employees to cough up out of their own pocket for something better than the SE.

      I think, currently, the iPhone 7 has just crept under the subsidy limit, so we will probably be replacing the SE with the 7 this time around.

      But you can/could get an iPhone SE (or now a 7) or a Galaxy S10 or a Huawei Mate 20 or P30 on the subsidy...

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        Go

        Sounds like a smart company.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I wonder if the new capability to have a hard separation between personal and work usage will cause them to change that policy? iOS 13 will create a separately encrypted filesystem for each and if the MDM provider (i.e. your work) does an "erase device" instead of erasing the whole thing it'll only erase the 'work' portion. That makes it easier for BYOD usage since you don't have to worry about your work erasing your phone. I think Samsung has something similar.

        If they want to actually own them they'd probably continue doing it the old way, though only a company run by assholes would insist on everyone carrying a second phone when it would be possible to allow owners of certain brands to carry only one. If I worked there and had the option of buying my own phone out of my pocket and letting them create a little partition on it for their stuff, or carrying a second phone, I sure as hell wouldn't be carrying a second phone!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Not really. The company has a policy:

          Work data only on work devices. No personal data, no personal use.

          No work data on private personal devices. No using personal devices for work use.

          Samsung has had it for years and Android in general has had it for a couple of years now. It doesn't make any difference, the company wants physical separation. The is one very good reason for it, you carry your personal phone with you, even when you aren't working. The company phone gets turned off / put to one side once you leave work for the day and doesn't get looked at again until you are on the way to work the next morning.

      3. NeilPost Silver badge

        Forced BYOD... ‘but you can’t use for personal calls’. Think they need to be told to go fuck themselves. Allow a small amount of use, and keep an eye on it.

        Having 2 phones is a PITA.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          I've pretty much always had 2 phones, since around 1999, when I have had a company phone.

          With my private phone, it is mine, has my contacts on it. The company phone has a company number and the company and my business contacts know the number. It I were to use the company phone privately, I'd have to give all my private contacts a new number every time I changed jobs and the company and business contacts could contact me out of hours.

          With 2 phones, I keep my private number, so don't have to keep giving people my new number. When I leave work, I can leave the company phone at home when I go out or I can turn it off altogether.

  2. Khaptain Silver badge

    Fading desire

    Maybe all that "Shiny Shiny" is actually just "lacklustre lacklustre"...

  3. msknight Silver badge

    Price sensitive

    I bought a second hand unlockable Sony Experia X, (some can't be unlocked) paid the 50 euros for the Sailfish OS, installed my contract SIM and I'm still using it I'm getting better than one day battery life and the phone is performing reasonably well for me.

    I look at the expensive phones and wonder what on earth they give me, except a dent in my bank balance and some street cred with people who are just going to walk straight past me.

    1. Saruman the White Silver badge

      Re: Price sensitive

      A got a new Sony Experia XZ3 earlier this year when my old Experia 1 finally expired after the battery cooked off (did not burst into flames, but did get pretty hot at one point). On normal use I am getting up to 3 days between charges, which I personally find pretty impressive. plus it cost about a 1/3 of the latest Apple offerings.

      1. src

        Re: Price sensitive

        Neither of you know how to spell "Xperia".

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Price sensitive

          Neither of you know how to spell "Xperia".

          Pronounced zzzperia?"

          1. jgarbo
            Pirate

            Re: Price sensitive

            They're referring to the obscure Zambian Experia, available only to big game hunters.

        2. msknight Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Price sensitive

          I'm dyslexic, so sew me.

          1. zuckzuckgo Bronze badge

            Re: Price sensitive

            I also have sex daily dyslexia issues.

    2. Adrian Harvey

      Re: Price sensitive

      Well, Apple phones last surprisingly well - a combination of a relatively small number of models making repair parts are available for a long time, and Apple continueing software updates for a long time. This can make their $/year of life less bad than the headline price would make you think.

      However that’s not going to make me rush out and buy one of the Excess models to replace my 6S (itself not acquired anywhere near it’s release year). Maybe if I could use my headphones....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Price sensitive

      Coincidentally Huawei are supposed to be in talks with the Russian company that does a Sailfish fork.

  4. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

  5. Wellyboot Silver badge

    Blacklisted stuff is always cooler with the kids.

    Feel free to substitute cooler with any more up to date positive adjective just in case I'm not hip to the new jive.

  6. Jemma

    Game of Apple(s) (in a Luton lockup)

    It begins...

    And the polo necked pillock isn't there to save them this time. I'm taking bets on how long it is before they rebrand the iPhone as the Newton.

    I did consider - Rum, Sodomy & the Telnet..

  7. LDS Silver badge

    Prisoners of their own reality distorsion field...

    I guess the solution they propose will be a $999 phone stand....

    1. Nick Kew

      Re: Prisoners of their own reality distorsion field...

      That'll be the one with the time machine, that remembers when you were slender and elegant, and those grey hairs had a healthy colour, in taking your selfie.

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Kevin Johnston

      Re: Shiny, shiny... cashy cashy?

      You could always download copies of what you have bought using Pirate Bay...

      Woops, did I really suggest that having paid for it you should be allowed to 're-platform' it free of charge?

    2. jeffdyer

      Re: Shiny, shiny... cashy cashy?

      Your mistake is to consider it an "investment".

  9. Still Confused

    Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

    I sometimes wonder why so many people complain about Apple prices and go on to say their [insert alternative brand/model here] is much better and cheaper. They've bought what suits their purpose. It's a bit like moaning about the price Ferrari charges for one of their cars and then commenting that their [Ford/Toyota/Fiat/VW/etc] meets all their needs much better and at a much lower cost. Similarly, Rolex or Timex? If all you want is something to tell you the time, get a Timex [or...]; if you want to make a statement and what may well be an investment, a Rolex may come into consideration for you (alongside Tag, Omega, etc).

    Any commercial business will (probably should) set their prices at what the market will bear to give them the optimum profit. If that means a higher mark-up but lower sales numbers, then that's what they should do; others will decide that a low mark-up and higher sales better suits them. If Apple want to compete on market share then they'll need to lower their prices; the success of the SE suggests a lower price increases sales but a lower price across the board might be counter-productive.

    I think Apple products are expensive and would like them to have a lower sales price (I'll avoid wanting them to be cheaper as that implies lowering standards) - I'll only buy if they meet my need and the overall cost to me is less than the alternatives.

    1. Ian Watkinson

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      Actually your analogy is a little off.

      Lets keep apple as Ferrari for your Car Analogy.

      So they've produced the Ferrari XR, it's a bit last years Ferrari X, but some tweaks, but it's only the hardcore following that will tell the difference.

      It goes 0-60 in 3 seconds, 0-100-0 in 5 and is the third fastest time around the nurburgring

      All good things for a super car. However it costs £1,000,000

      However Porsche have their new 911 GTR10 which does the same and costs £700,000 people are also saying that the new GTR10 comes with more options and feels more useable for a larger number of drivers, plus Porsche welcomes drivers to have different options available. Whereas Ferrari is known to sue car tuners and even their customers!

      It goes 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, 0-100-0 in 4.8 and is the second fastest time around the nurburgring

      Finally the shock arrival is Hyundai. With their I30 mate. Which "only" costs £300,000, arguable has the best engine by far than the other two and is producing great results from that engine.

      It goes 0-60 in 2.7 seconds, 0-100-0 in 4.3 and is the fastest time around the nurburgring.

      Yes people will buy the Ferrari, yes people will buy the porsche, but more people are going, you know what I don't care what badge it has, the other option is really good value for money....

      1. Evil Scot

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        I need to upgrade now !!!!!

        The 1.6L CRDTi is a bit slow... But then again it still lasts a week on a £35 top up.

      2. agurney

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        Irrespective of the badge and price, does it address your needs?

        To continue the above analogy - I don't care how fast or shiny these cars are .. can I fit a [wheelchair / family / fridge] in the back? If not, I'll keep using my estate (station wagon).

      3. macjules Silver badge

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        Ah, but I bet you don't get, "Oi, Enzo! Why did you make that Ferrari out of glass?"

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        Except for the fact that no Android phone comes close to an iPhone in performance. The fastest SoC in Android land is two years behind Apple's.

        Now you can argue they have a bigger trunk or allow you to customize your dashboard or whatever, but you can't argue they have a better 0-60 time.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

          It's perfectly true, but the 0-60 time hardly ever matters, whereas the big boot frequently does.

          The actual advantage of the iPhone is ease of use, but advertising it on the basis that "your totally non-technical grandparent/office drones/kids can use this thing without problems" doesn't actually appeal to most of the target market - so you make it work very well on one parameter and tell them they are getting the fastest,

          BlackBerry, which brands corporate phones of low to middling spec, advertises on security. Your corporate BB user can go around telling people he needs an ultrasecure phone because of his highly important access.

          Android - "You get lots of stuff and it's reasonably quick" appeals to people who pay for things themselves.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

            Was with you right up until:

            > Your corporate BB user can go around telling people he needs an ultrasecure phone because of his highly important access.

            That's just funny.

        2. Wincerind

          Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

          "SoC in Android land is two years behind Apple's"

          That may well be the case, but what does an Apple do noticeably or significantly faster as a result compared to say my Nokia 6.1. I mean, it's a phone, you'll be doing phone calls, texts, emails and reminders/calendar stuff mostly. I doubt you're developing ray-traced 3d graphics on it.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

          Except for the fact that no Android phone comes close to an iPhone in performance. The fastest SoC in Android land is two years behind Apple's.

          No android phone comes close to an iPhone? Like zero percent? Challenge accepted.

          iPhone XS Max

          Asus ROG Phone ZS600KL

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

            A Snapdragon 845? Don't make me laugh. That's slower than an iPhone 6S!

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        The customer, and only the customer, defines value.

    2. Cuddles Silver badge

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      The difference is that Ferrari is an extremely niche luxury brand, Apple are simply at the higher end of regular consumer commodities. Ferrari make somewhere around 8,000 cars per year. That puts them in a very different market from the likes of Ford, who make close to 1,000 times more. One aims to sell very expensive things to a small number of people, one aims to sell as much as possible to as many people as possible. Comparing the two is just pointless. Ferrari are irrelevant to Apple; a better analogy would be complaining about something like Audi being too expensive compared to a Ford. Which is an entirely fair complaint that many people actually do make, since Audi are very similar to Apple in being decent bits of kit that are frequently bought because of the name rather than a careful analysis of value for money.

      1. Wellyboot Silver badge

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        To push the analogy a little bit - If you have a £xxx/month to put in a car contract plan & you can choose from Audi, BMW, Mercedes or Ford. The Ford may have more bells & whistles at the price but most people get one of the others for the badge factor.

        Apple selling at the same price as a Sammy & Co. would clean up.

        As for the Ferrari/Rolex comparison - after 20 years a mint example of either is usually worth more than the sale price, wait 50 years and you can add another zero or two. They will also both still work as designed. Any phone is never going to be an investment. (Obsolete G5 network gone by around 2040?)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      But if you equate Ferrari with Apple products:

      - Your engine will suddenly accelerate a lot slower and you won't know why.

      - Various buttons in the car will stop working. It will be YOUR fault because 'you pressed them wrong"

      - You can only EVER take it to a certified Ferrari 'Genius'.

      - Said Genius will tell you you need a brand new Ferrari when all you need is a new tyre.

      - 6 years later you'll find out about a warranty repair, only to find out its expired.

      Just don't mention the 'right to repair'.....

      1. Naselus

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        "Said Genius will tell you you need a brand new Ferrari when all you need is a new tyre."

        And Said Genius will be right, since the tyre is not removable from the ret of the car without destroying the entire wheel train in the process, and the wheel it's attached to is specifically designed to run backwards if a non-Ferrari brand tyre is installed.

        1. MOV r0,r0

          Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

          Yes and corners on said tyres so specially rounded as it make it circular!

      2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        Trust me on this one: A Ferrari will be a much worse experience than any Apple product.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "(alongside Tag, Omega, etc)."

      You don't know what the real luxury watches are.... try with Vacheron-Constantin, Patek Philippe... oh yes, they don't advertise. They don't need it.

      Sure, wannabes may not even recognize them - that's how you make a real statement (and investment).

      1. Korev Silver badge

        Re: "(alongside Tag, Omega, etc)."

        try with Vacheron-Constantin, Patek Philippe... oh yes, they don't advertise.

        The latter advertise on the back of The Economist all the time...

      2. Zebo-the-Fat

        Re: "(alongside Tag, Omega, etc)."

        What do these overpriced watches do that my £100 "ordinary" watch can't?

        1. Schultz
          Facepalm

          What do these overpriced watches do that my £100 "ordinary" watch can't?

          They show the time and they show your sense of fashion.

          I don't wear a watch -- shows my sense of fashion but not the time.

          1. Wincerind

            Re: What do these overpriced watches do that my £100 "ordinary" watch can't?

            They show you have more money than sense. I have a "Rolex" for special occasions, bought for 10 euros at a Turkish bazaar about 15 years ago.

          2. TomG

            Re: What do these overpriced watches do that my £100 "ordinary" watch can't?

            I don't wear a watch either. I discovered years that my smartphone always has the time.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: What do these overpriced watches do that my £100 "ordinary" watch can't?

              Oh dear - the down voter (with the expensive watch) has just realised that you have a valid point!

              LOL

        2. TomG

          Re: "(alongside Tag, Omega, etc)."

          The overpriced watches (this applies to Apple also) lets your friends and other people know that you have enough money, or little enough sense, to pay for a status symbol.

    5. Spanners Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      Apple used to be better than most phones but they have caught up. Then it was average for a "flagship" phone. Nowadays, it is not even that. It is average for the over £200 type phone. The world has caught up.

      They have nice displays but a ghastly interface that I think they got from the original iPod Touch.

      It has a decent camera but nowhere as good as the P30 one.

      I hear chavs playing music on theirs. It doesn't sound that great but that might be what they are playing!

      Different phones have different strong points. I'm just not clear what the iPhone one(s) is(are).

      iPhones are not so much Ferraris as Rovers. You pay extra for a badge that appeals to some people and it has a history of appealing to managerial types but are nowadays no better than a Mercedes or a BMW. Personally, I fancy an Aston Martin!

    6. JohnFen

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      "It's a bit like moaning about the price Ferrari charges for one of their cars and then commenting that their [Ford/Toyota/Fiat/VW/etc] meets all their needs much better and at a much lower cost."

      I don't moan about the price of a Ferrari. However, I do question the judgement of people who are willing to buy one.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

        Just FTR When you're rich, you don't think like a peasant.

        If you genuinely could afford a Ferrari, there's no way way you would be buying a Ford.

        1. JohnFen

          Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

          "If you genuinely could afford a Ferrari, there's no way way you would be buying a Ford."

          I personally know two people who could easily afford multiple Ferraris, but they actually own more practical cars. Wealthy people, like people who aren't so wealthy, come in all sorts of flavors and have all sorts of different attitudes.

          For instance, there are plenty of wealthy people who recognize that being wealthy doesn't make you inherently superior to people are aren't as fortunate, so they don't look down on them and call them "peasants".

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

            For instance, there are plenty of wealthy people who think that being wealthy makes you inherently superior to people are aren't as fortunate, so they look down on them and call them "peasants".

            Is also true. But irrelevant.

            Not quite sure what your point is but not liking that I used the word "peasants" doesn't have much to do with how the wealthy spend their money, whether it's on expensive cars, expensive phones, gated properties, stocks or frequent holidays. They do it because they can, unlike poor people who will never be able to.

            It's called inequality and exists because the rich will never voluntarily give up their privileged position. Ever.

            :(

    7. Robert Forsyth

      Re: Have you seen how much a Ferrari costs?

      But are you buying a Ford for the price of a Ferrari?

      They are not selling a few units with hand stitched Italian leather seats, they are selling a massed produced device made in China.

  10. chivo243 Silver badge
    Windows

    Sniffing

    Do I smell lower prices coming just because they need to move units?

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Sniffing

      Apple notoriously avoids this. Like many premium players it prefers to destroy stock than let customers anticipate fallling prices. But you can probably expect to see more disguised price cuts through trade-ins and combi-deals. Although, as the article says, these have so far failed to create much excitement.

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: Sniffing

        Going backto car analogies, in Spain you will often see a relatively old car for sale at a high price for it's age and condition.

        The owner had either still got a fair chunk to pay off on the credit or has spent a lot of money on the car and wants it back, they won't negotiate or drop the price, so the car ends up rotting away on the drive.

        Meanwhile they have taken out more credit tonget a shinier car so are deeper in debt.

        If they don't smarten up and/or get innovative, Apple will go the same way.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sniffing

          @Chris G

          The supplier only defines price. Not value.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sniffing

      They won't lower price or "destroy stock", they'll just make fewer of them. When demand goes up they make more, when demand goes down they make less. Selling last year's model at $100 off is sort of "lowering price" but it is scheduled not in response to slow sales.

      They have fiddled with price some in other markets, but it is usually related to exchange rate or tax changes. The price drop in China that got so much attention a few months ago was due to a reduction in the sales/VAT tax that applied to them. Probably not much Apple can do to help sales in China now though no matter what they did with price. Thanks to the trade war and campaign against Huawei in particular, they will never recover their former market share.

  11. sal II

    The main reason for slumping sales is lack of innovation. Games aside, where newer games require faster and faster CPU/GPU, there is barely anything that can't be done just as well on 5 years old iPhone 6, why would I want to upgrade?

    For me personally the trigger to upgrade from 5 to 6 was Apple pay and Touch ID. I was a bit skeptical about the bigger screen at the time (now can't go back)

    The trigger to upgrade from 6 to X was that my son needed a new phone (his 4 finally packed after 7 years) so i handed the 6 down

    Looking at the 2019 rumored lineup I see no reason to upgrade my X, unless my wife's 6s or my son's 6 gives up the ghost. Sure power sharing is a nice feature, but unless it works for Apple watch I have no other Qi charging device to use it with and for sure won't upgrade just for the ability to give someone else a boost. All other specs are just incremental upgrades over the already formidable specs of the X, not worth it the £1k+

    Boot note: People who compare Apple phone to Android phones solely based on specs/price have never owned more than 1 Apple device (if any) to realize how much better the eco-system is when it comes to interactions between your devices. I was one of these "unenlightened" until about 7 years ago and know where they are coming from. Then there is the OS updates both for the sake of new features as well as security. The majority of Android flagships get 2-3 years worth of updates, then you are stuffed. With Apple it's more or less 5 years "guaranteed"

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Boot note: People who compare Apple phone to Android phones solely based on specs/price

      I agree on this but I think this increasingly less the case. We're getting used to looking for a newer version of what we've got, ie. functionality over spec which has a dramatic effect on how we perceive value.

      I use a Mac but have never been tempted by the I-Phones. My second-hand Samsung S5 is waterproof and doing just great on LineageOS: includes security updates from 5th June 2019. I never stream stuff but do sync music and pictures over the internet and, if I want to I can plug my phone into a TV or even just screenshare.

      I might well replace the phone at some point this year but, if I do, it won't be with a flagship crammed full of stuff I don't need. Waterproof, good battery life, SD-card and a good screen and support for LineageOS is what I will be looking for.

      As for your replacement devices: wouldn't you prefer to buy an I-Phone 8 rather than an X?

      1. sal II

        "wouldn't you prefer to buy an I-Phone 8 rather than an X?"

        Not really, because although the edge-to-edge OLED screen is not real innovation, at least IMO it's well worth the price premium over the 8.

        What I value the most in Apple devices is that they just work seamlessly and I don't have/need to tinker with them. I work in IT and although I'm happy to tinker with non-essential stuff like home automation, home lab, etc when I get spare time. I just don't have the time/drive to spend time maintaining a rooted android device.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Not really, because although the edge-to-edge OLED screen is not real innovation, at least IMO it's well worth the price premium over the 8.

          Interesting. After posting I realised what I'd forgotten to say was: Apple is going to have work harder and harder to convince people that an I-Phone isn't just another phone, which is the kind of argument you're giving and hence, why you're prepared to pay that for it. I think you can see for yourself that Apple are finding it harder and harder to justify the high-end prices.

          Personally, as someone who drops things a lot, I think that "infinity" displays are structural weaknesses just begging to be tried out, so I'd generally avoid them. As for aesthetics: the notch is a definite no-no for me.

          Over the weekend I was with someone who's thinking of switching from Apple to Android. And, because she's not heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem, the switch should be fairly easy. Interestingly, she'd heard of Xiaomi, in particular about the quality of the photos…

          Fears of the imminent demise of Apple are overblown but they are going to have to do some work to keep their nimbus: functional equivalence can be a real bitch.

    2. Wade Burchette Silver badge

      "The main reason for slumping sales is lack of innovation."

      Exactly. Let us look at the innovation in the iPhone, limiting ourselves to ones people actually notice.

      First, there is the notch. An idea so dumb and ugly that whoever decided to put it there needs to smacked hard in the head every day for 5 years so that he can have some sense knocked into him. Second, removing the headphone jack. The only reason for this is to make you buy an overpriced adapter or an overpriced set of wireless headphones. In no way and at no time was this decision about the customer. Third, removing the physical home button. I've used the original iPhone and the X. And I can say without reservation that the original iPhone with the home button is far far easier to use. Getting rid of that button was also the height of stupidity. If Apple wanted more screen space, they should have done what Android phones do and make a screen home button.

      And so what do we have? Three bad ideas and a cost of over 1000 in all currencies. That will sucker in the diehards who worship their i-thingy, a few pretentious pricks who think they are better than you, and a few regular people. For many, it is a turn off. I know two iPhone lovers who regret buying the iPhone X because of the backwards innovation.

      1. AndyMulhearn

        It has value for me

        It's interesting how different people see things differently:

        Notch: doesn't bother me at all. I thought it might but it doesn't.

        Headphone jack. I've used bluetooth headphones for close to a year now and would hate to go back so don't miss it. And nor do I miss getting tangled up on overly long headphone cables or yanking earbuds out of my ear when I stand up.

        Home button: Nope, not missed at all. Face recognition works pretty much 100% of the time for me so I don't miss it for unlock. And I don't miss the home function either, swipe up works perfectly well. Oh and double tap the screen and it wakes up, looks for your face and unlocks.

        Face unlock also works well if you, like me, you have the phone on a slanted stand (charger) close enough that you can look at it and be recognised. New email arrives, my phone pings, I look at it and it unlocks and shows me the preview of the message. I look away and the phone locks. Close enough is about a foot.

        Cost: I have an XR which cost me £799 because I went for 128GB of storage. but it can be had for £749, I traded a Galaxy S7 Edge in and got £100 for that which reduced the price further, Not £1000 in all cases.

        I'd rather it was £20 instead of £799 but thems the breaks...

        1. Nick Kew

          Re: It has value for me

          Headphone jack. I've used bluetooth headphones for close to a year now and would hate to go back so don't miss it.

          Genuine question. I use headphones mostly to listen to the radio when out and about. The wire also serves as aerial for the radio, so using bluetooth isn't an option. Is that not an issue for you?

          And what is this Notch of which you speak? Googling iphone notch suggests a "notch" wallpaper ...

          1. AndyMulhearn

            Re: It has value for me

            Genuine question. I use headphones mostly to listen to the radio when out and about. The wire also serves as aerial for the radio, so using bluetooth isn't an option. Is that not an issue for you?

            And what is this Notch of which you speak? Googling iphone notch suggests a "notch" wallpaper ...

            I listen to radio but use TuneIn Radio in free mode and either WiFi or mobile data to listen. Coverage from Three is good enough that I get very few dropouts on my journey so no need for an arial.

            The notch is less of a notch than a massive hole out fo the top of the screen where the camera and earphone for calls sit. To the left-hand side there is the notifications pulldown and on the right the shortcut to control centre, see https://bgr.com/2019/01/07/iphone-smaller-notch-new-sensor-technology/

      2. sal II

        Your chose of words and language make me believe you never actually owned/used iPhone for more than a couple of hours/days.

        All of the features you slag are now a common place in most of the major Android flagships, yet somehow people are buying them. So it's must be that either the whole world is full of idiots, not only the Apple fanboys or more likely - you are wrong.

        The notch is easily ignorable, since it came out 95% of the apps/games have tuned their UI to accommodate it.

        The headphone jack was mainly removed to allow better/easier waterproofing. Again a non-issue since you can use the supplied converter or BT headphones.

        The on-screen home button is there in the X, it's just not a button, but a bar that you need to swipe to achieve the same result. Once you get used to it, it actually feels superior.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          "The headphone jack was mainly removed to allow better/easier waterproofing. Again a non-issue since you can use the supplied converter or BT headphones."

          Nah. Adapters are shit. We used to have so many of them BEFORE the iPhone came along.

          Making a waterproof 3.5mm headphone jack must be the easiest engineering task ever -suitable for any newly recruited intern. (Note: You don't need to waterproof the actual space that the headphone plug goes into.)

          Let's face reality: It was an idiotic decision by OCD Apple managers who should never be let near the design studio. Jobs would never have allowed this idiocy.

      3. Da Weezil

        Home button, would be a serious backward step for me, Ive seen a few people gurning at thier phones, much prefer to just thumb the button.

        Headphone jack, I detest earbuds, I find them uncomfotable and annoying. so as well as not wishing to move on from my folding skullcandy travel kit, I also find use from time to time for a 3.5 jack patch to connect to non bluetooth kit.

        Glass casing. Its hard enough keeping the sccreen intact, I live out in the real world not farting about in a nice warm office with carpets and other soft furnishings, so pretty arty farty glass backings are of zero interest to me, my 6+ lives in a Griffin Survivor case, Ive never needed to replace the screen or any other part of the casing.

        The current overpriced line up has zero attraction for me, so once the security updates stop I may well turn off mobile data, dump apple pay and any other financial apps and just use it as a phone and text message unit.

        The next phone might well be something with LineageOS, it wont be Apple, because despite liking the OS, I hate the hardware they are producing, and the grossly inflated pricing, I may even look at popping an alternative OS into the iMac.

        Well Done Tim Cook heres just one household you have alienated.

    3. SonOfDilbert
      Meh

      I'm genuinely confused about why this comment got so many downvotes. It seems like a well-reasoned, perfectly valid comment to me -- especially the boot note. Are there really so many iDevice haters here that have a fast-twitch muscle spasm reaction when anything neutral or vaguely positive about Apple is mentioned?

  12. Sir Runcible Spoon
    Thumb Up

    Another feather in the cap

    The recent announcement that Facebook will no longer be pre-installed on any Huawei phones is, as far as I'm concerned, a major USP and on the basis I will definitely be giving them a look should I decide to step back into the smart-phone arena.

  13. Cuddles Silver badge

    Major brands?

    "Huawei outperformed all of the major brands"

    Surely that should read "all of the other major brands"? If being the second biggest in the world doesn't count as major, I'm not sure what does.

  14. Blockchain commentard

    The blacklisting of Huawei in the US on May 16 is creating so many unknowns - like how many iPhones are being stockpiled by Apple cos fanbois aren't buying them?

  15. Dedobot

    Xiaomi redmi 5 plus -160usd , absolutely satisfied me. Even more - it have infrared blaster, can control all my home electronics including an apple tv gen3 ,where my 3yrs old watch his YouTube favorites)

    Thousand dollars phone is out of my understanding .

    1. DiViDeD Silver badge

      @ Dedobot re: Xiaomii IR blaster

      Another useful thing about the IR blaster is that you can get a software TVBegone app that undetectably turns off TVs in places like GoodGuys or Hardley Normal. I have it on my Samsung Gear 2 Neo watch (yes, there is one of those ancient little buggers still running). Minutes of uproarious fun can be had for those of simple pleasures.

      1. GruntyMcPugh

        Re: @ Dedobot re: Xiaomii IR blaster

        @DiViDeD

        I have 'TV Kill' app on my Note 4, and it's great. I was in the supermarket last year, and they had a telly on for the World Cup, and it was really loud, as it was competing with the muzak,....so, a quick 'TV Kill' and then, blessed relief. I've also got 'AnyMote' for controlling my devices at home,... and occasionally the volume of TVs elsewhere : -)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Dedobot

      "Thousand dollars phone is out of my understanding."

      It's very simple - millions of people earn a lot more than you do. As a result they are not confined by your limitations.

  16. andy 103
    Facepalm

    It's all about price

    I say this as an iPhone user.

    I wanted to buy an XR but am sticking with an SE. Why? Because every time I think about spending 750 quid on a phone, I think of all the other things I could do with that money. But, it's not all about price... If you're getting something which absolutely justifies the outlay.

    Look at The Reg's review of the Pixel 3a. Like I commented there are you getting £350 better hardware by buying an XR? No.

    Am I getting £750 better hardware by upgrading from an SE (now worth virtually nothing especially if you upgrade via Apple's website) to XR? Definitely no.

    So then there's the OS. Well personally I don't like Android so I can't (won't) buy a Pixel.

    What I'm looking for is an XR at the price of a Pixel 3a. Apple don't offer this and never will. So the result is no mobile manufacturer is getting any money off me - and many many other people.

    Well done, *slow clap*.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's all about price

      You don't have to buy new, there are refurbished phones for less. You are essentially using a "used" phone now that gets older every day, so getting a slightly less old used phone isn't really any different.

      The main reason you aren't getting a new phone isn't solely the price though, it is because the SE does everything you need from a phone so you don't see any reason to replace it. The lengthening replacement cycle everyone has been talking about.

      I'm using a X now, which I've had for almost two years, and before that had a 6S which I had for two years. My X will be two years old this fall but I'm not planning on replacing it and will hold off until fall 2020 so my replacement cycle looks to be growing by 50%. The upcoming models look like they are mostly improving the camera (which I don't use a whole lot, my girlfriend is the photo bug and is looking to replace her 8 plus to get the better camera) and the usual upgrades to performance but my X is plenty fast.

      1. andy 103

        Re: It's all about price

        "The main reason you aren't getting a new phone isn't solely the price though, it is because the SE does everything you need "

        Exactly, so it is about price. The SE does what I need, so I can't justify spending £750 on "upgrading" it. If, on the other hand, the XR was about £400 I'd consider it at a price where upgrading was worthwhile.

  17. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Don't worry Apple

    You can rely on "theRealDonald" to help you fight off Chapter 11 by bannig anyone carrying a Hauwei device from entering the god goven USofA. He's gotta keep those commies out now hasn't he (/s)

    MAGA (Sic)

    Another reason for the drop in sales is that people are just not upgrading as frequently as before. I have an iPhone 7 that is doing everything I want from it. Didn't pay Apple a bent penny for it. I got it from the local pawn shop. However, I will be upgrading it to an iPhone 8 next month as I use TouchID a lot especially when on the motorbike. FaceID and Full face helmets really don't work well together.

    If the bring back under screen TouchID then who knows... I might even shell out for a new phone. {better rinse mouth out with soap for suggesting buying anything directly from Apple, that well known tat reseller}

  18. MOV r0,r0

    Excess Inventory

    How to dispose though?

    Give it away to registered developers? (Hi Intel!)

    Fire it all at a really deep crater on the moon? Oh wait...

  19. NBCanuck

    "CEO Tim Cook blamed dropping demand for iPhones in China and a new battery replacement programme for its worsening fortunes. And he cut the price of the mobes to try to widen their appeal. This strategy hadn’t worked as of Apple’s Q2 results for fiscal 2019, ended 30 March."

    Damn consumers. Replacing a battery instead of buying a new phone.Why are they all being so unreasonable?

    That being said....I have my first Android without a user-swapable battery (S9+). Still going strong after a year (day + usage) and this while using fast charging most of the time and left to charge overnight, but I'd still feel better if I could change out the battery myself when the time comes. Fast charging is great, but I'd still rather have a thicker phone with a 2 day batter life.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too much money for a phone that will be obsolete in a couple of years.

    I don't know which reality this company are selling this phones. Apple think that people have a 1000 dollars to throw away. Samsung wanna be Apple or better. Something gotta give. I got tired of Apple and their insane prices. I was looking toward Samsung and decided against it. I went with an LG Stylus 4 for 149 and never looked back. It does what I need it to do. I still have the Iphone 4 and it has become an Ipod. Is where my music resides connected to my stereo. Still ticking!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Too much money for a phone that will be obsolete in a couple of years.

      Try "these".

  21. N2 Silver badge

    Dear Mr Cook,

    A simple lesson in sales.

    There are two things that clinch a deal:

    1. The price is right and

    2. It makes sense

    You have clearly forgotten both of those facts particually when asking $999 for a freaking monitor stand.

  22. MarkWoldy

    Quality

    I got an iPhone for very little on a contract. Fact is, iPhone simply isn't as good as android. There's a whole list of frustrations I have with my iPhone that are basic, but after almost two years drive me utterly insane.

    1. Keyboard: Custom keyboards are limited. E.g. No comma key.

    2. Browser: Forced to use Webkit. Also, other browsers poorly optimised for battery.

    3. Selection: Text is impossible to select. Difficult to download images.

    4. Data transfer: No USB drive support, forced to "sync" phone.

    5. Wi-Fi: No real way to turn off. Slow to connect. No shortcut to get to settings.

    6. Privacy: Cannot easily find data - not transparent.

    7. Siri: Rubbish.

    8. Dev: It's an utter pain to develop for compared to android. Almost not worth the hassel.

    9. Google Chrome: Integration is terrible. Not sure if this is on Google, Apple, or both.

    10. Other small things: Lack of free apps, no way to report iPhone bugs, etc.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Quality

      I find the alerts are much better on Android too. The BYOD "Work" profile is also pretty good (I don't BYOM, it means you can use >1 WhatsApp number on the same phone).

      Going back the other way... I do miss iMessage (or rather the people who won't use anything) and also the "Wallet" feature when on my iPhone. I find some of the nagging for reviews and photos of places on Android infuriating (until it all got turned off).

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apart from

    You're selling it wrong.

    I will have to say "I told you so. I predicted Iphone sales were going to crash a lot harder than Apple were making out; back in December.

    bear in mind, I also predicted the price cuts and hidden contract reseller subsidies (Carphone Warehouse etc), to initially keep the headline phone price as original, but offer humongous contract data allowances.

  24. Stephen McLaughlin

    Poor Service As Well

    My last iPhone was the 6+ model. Like many others it had "touch disease." Apple is aware of the defect with this model. So when I took it into an Apple store for repair I assumed they would fix the phone. But since it wasn't under an AppleCare protection plan I had to pay for repairs. It's been Android for me ever since. They sell you a defective product and expect the consumer to foot the bill to fix it.. no thanks.

  25. trev101

    Apple greed put me off

    After 10 years with iPhone I finally moved to Android with a Samsung S10. Lovely device. Apple new phones had no touch id, were too expensive and their greed was the final deciding factor.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I love my iPad Pro (10 inch version) and wouldn't mind having an iPhone. However, no headphone jack? Are you serious???

    And the screen is too small on the versions that do have headphone jacks.

    Apart from that, I don't see the need for Apple bashing and embarrassing glee at any sales drop. After all, and let's be honest for a change, Android is pretty much a copy of Apple's OS. And Apple doesn't monetise your personal details. Better be careful what you wish for...

  27. LegendObserver

    I Don't Buy IT!

    Sadly there is no way I'm going to buy a Huawei phone, not when that country's authoritarian regime holds more than a million Uighurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic groups in so called reeducation centers... read concentration camps... In fact I go out of my way not to buy Chinese... and the Chinese authoritarian regime's attempt to suppress the 4/6 student demonstration in Tiananmen Square 1989 and the very recent Hong Kong demonstration means for me I can only buy products from countries that have democratic governments that offer free elections to their citizens... Thuggery I will no support in anyway!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Don't Buy IT!

      Hate to break it to you, but you won't be buying much of anything once you discover what skeletons all the other countries on planet have in their closets.

      In the UK, we're still waiting for real democracy, not just lip service.

  28. Slx

    I've an iPhone 8 as well as a high end android phone. They're both decent devices, but I am not feeling the urge to update the iPhone as the prices are just way, way too saucy. There's a point at which I will not spend money on a device I will probably drop.

    There are things that I like about iOS and Android and things that drive me nuts about both, neither are perfect.

    Also FaceID just seems really awkward compared to touchID which I liked.

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