back to article Zorin OS 15 nods at Ubuntu and welcomes Windows escapees

While Microsoft may be shoehorning the Linux kernel into Windows 10, veteran Linux flinger Zorin has applied some buffing to its Windows-like distro with a version 15 release. Nearly a decade since its first emission, Zorin has given its latest Ubuntu-based OS a polish and added tools that its parent, well, really should have …

  1. Nematode

    Hmmm

    Sourceforge servers struggling within a few minutes of this article...

  2. Persona Silver badge

    Crysis?

    See title.

  3. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Windows

    Well, this should be good

    Looks like the tsunami of bilious penguinista nerdboy rage has not yet crashed into the comments section yet. Time to get my popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show!

  4. Cranky_Yank
    Happy

    The 39 Steps

    I have attempted to use various Linux distributions over the past 20 years or so but even with the latest distro when I need to fix a minor problem the solution is composed of 39 steps. I shall not leap from the frying pan yet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Linux

      Re: The 39 Steps

      > even with the latest distro when I need to fix a minor problem the solution is composed of 39 steps ..

      What minor problem would that be?

      1. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: The 39 Steps

        > What minor problem would that be?

        Installing any printer - particularly multi function ones. Any single time I've ever had to install a printer on any distro it's a pest.

        In fact adding hardware generally is a pest but printers are the worst.

        1. lybad

          Re: The 39 Steps

          I use CentOS/RHEL at work, and my main machine at home uses Mint.

          I have 2 printers at home - a wireless Epson multi-function, and a Samsung laser. The laser was a doddle, but the multi function was a pain to get the scanner working. It also took me a while to get a duplex enabled driver for the Epson. However, the issue was finding the driver rather than the installer for printing. And the scanner required a bit of playing round until I realised the scanning software was the issue rather than the driver.

          I tend to avoid Windows at work unless I have to, but recently bought a Windows laptop, purely as I was missing some of my Windows games that just won't work for me under wine or Proton (in Steam).

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The 39 Steps

          "Installing any printer - particularly multi function ones. Any single time I've ever had to install a printer on any distro it's a pest."

          Ubuntu supports Apple Air Print, so if you have a printer that supports that, just plug it in, it'll appear with no input from you, and off you go.

          Example: I have a Brother MFC-L2730DW under Linux Mint 19 - plugged in the USB lead and it detected it, complete with resolution lists, toner save, duplex settings, etc, all without any input from me (or an internet connection). I ended up installing the Brother driver for it (provided as a .sh file by Brother, which pulls down the appropriate .deb files) purely because the easiest way to get the scanner working was to download the automated setter-upper. The whole process took less than a minute, and worked first time and without a hitch.

          1. Harmless Drudge

            No problems here

            I've been using Mint for years (currently 18.3; wife on 19.1). Never had the slightest issue with our HP multi-function printer (OfficeJet Pro 8600 Plus). Works perfectly and was trivial to configure for Linux (automatically found, recognised, boom, working).

            This is simply not an issue for most printers. What IS an issue is that my printer only supports SMB1 protocol which means I can't scan to my NAS unless I configure it to use SMB1 instead of a more secure (later) version of that protocol. However, I'm disinclined to discard a printer (and expensive set of ink cartridges incl replacements) on the off chance of getting hammered by an SMB1 based exploit. Fortunately we have no Windows machines in use.

            1. Chris Parsons

              Re: No problems here

              Ditto networked Brother M/F laser/scanner. It just works.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The 39 Steps

            ". I ended up installing the Brother driver for it"...

            Installing a Brother printer can be completely pain free on some distros, but on Gentoo it was an utter nightmare, and I ended up having to install some portage overlay or other.

            Saying that, we have three laser printers in our house: an ancient (16 year old Samsung), a more recent colour Samsung that has dropped out of official support and doesn't have any windows 10 drivers, and a fairly recent Brother printer (bought because it supports both duplex printing and Linux, and our other printers don't do duplex). They all work perfectly with our linux boxes, but Windows 10 will only talk to the Brother...

          3. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: The 39 Steps

            >Ubuntu supports Apple Air Print, so if you have a printer that supports that, just plug it in, it'll appear with no input from you, and off you go.

            Depends on what you are wanting to print.

            Finding out just which print format is supported by Air print printers can be challenging (before you buy). From experience expect any cheap printer (available from most high street outlets) to only support the image standard, better quality printers (£££) will support PDF or other print file format.

        3. jmecher

          Re: The 39 Steps

          >Installing any printer - particularly multi function ones. Any single time I've ever had to install a printer on any distro it's a pest.

          I haven't installed a printer driver on Windows for a long time, but I still have flashbacks from the HP installer bringing a decent spec computer to it's knees while doing it's thing - with the extra benefit that from then on a boat load of useless services would be added to the boot times.

          Not saying Linux shines in this aspect, but printing is possibly not the best show case of Windows being better.

        4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: The 39 Steps

          "In fact adding hardware generally is a pest but printers are the worst."

          Odd you should say that. A few years ago I set up a very old Dell box for a cousin using Linux and also an ancient Time box (Zorin in fact). Last year they acquired a laptop with W10 <spit> and an HP inkjet. The laptop was supposed to find and set up the printer on the wireless network and wasn't doing so. It appeared that it was trying to assign the printer an address on a different subnet to that in use. I eventually sorted it out from the Dell with the aid of a USB lead.

          Yup. Printers are the worst. Especially if you're relying on Windows.

        5. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: The 39 Steps

          the problem with printers is a lack of SERIOUS CUPS SUPPORT by some vendors.

          this was a thing back in the windows 3.x and '9x days, too... lack of drivers. lack of non-buggy drivers, at any rate. I choose printers that support CUPS and make it easy to update with their PPD files. Vendors should remain aware of this.

        6. Kiwi Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: The 39 Steps

          > What minor problem would that be?

          Installing any printer - particularly multi function ones. Any single time I've ever had to install a printer on any distro it's a pest.

          In fact adding hardware generally is a pest but printers are the worst.

          Never had a problem myself. Plug it in, turn it on, use it. IIRC some years back Lexmark did make a printer that they seemed to go out of their way to make it not work on Linux, but then IME Lexmark made pretty shitty printers anyway.

          My first real experience of Linux and hardware came with attaching an Epsom CX1500 to a machine. Plug the USB cable in, reach over and turn the printer on, go to sit back down and.. Ubuntu has a message on screen telling me the printer and scanner were ready to go. No installing drivers, no installing "monitor" software that "monitors ink levels" yet comes in a nifty 20-DVD pack, no hours faffing around fighting Windows wanting to install it's own drivers.

          I did once have to locate a WiFi driver - that wasted a whole damned 20 minutes of my day, FUCK YOU LINUX FOR MAKING IT SO HARD! And sometimes I've installed the OEM graphics drivers which takes all of a few minutes (longer to work through the "please select your hardware" list from the website than it is to install it)

          Compared with Windows, installing hardware on Linux is a dream.. In fact, I can't really call it "installing" as IME it mostly just involves plugging it in (and yes, I've built and installed far more systems than the average nerd)

        7. Inkey

          Re: The 39 Steps

          I used Linux for almost a year without realising on a 1/4 million £ printer (grand format Durst) the ripps were a custom disro too(Caldera)... Its what got me into using Linux as a daily and back into computing.

          Recently got ropped in to installing a new printer for my other half's customer, I assumed they had borked the old one from using 3rd party inks, as I was told they needed to print from an iPad and the outgoing machine was perfectly capable of doing so. The longest part ot the iPad set up was getting the gent to reset his apple id password... The laptop a Win10 item took well over 6 hours and 2 visits to get there, admittedly it needed to be updated and there's a bit of the old printers bloat that is or isn't still in there I can't tell, also I don't know how to make it print in office 360 without disabling the popup blocker.

          I just hooked up said old printer(3year old cannon somthing) in to mint19 and honestly it took longer to find the port on the printer and where the paper went in, than for the drivers to install and ask if I would like to print a test page. 2 clicks, 3 if I'd chosen the CUPS driver.(clicked OK for the model of printer it highlighted) and it prints OK.... So I'm having a difficult time with the 39 steps, have I done it wrong?...

          What's with all the Linux bashing? Driver issues are more vendor issue than a os/distro issue

    2. Kiwi Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: The 39 Steps

      I have attempted to use various Linux distributions over the past 20 years or so but even with the latest distro when I need to fix a minor problem the solution is composed of 39 steps. I shall not leap from the frying pan yet.

      I too struggle to fix minor problems with Linux.

      Minor, and even major problems with Windows used to be something I could fix without once looking to a tutorial - but that's because it was so common to have to do. Hell, I had trillion-character registry keys that were 450,000 levels deep memorised and could get to them with only a few thousand mouse clicks - but I can't do that on Linux because it doesn't even have a registry!

      Why.. I remember such joys as the Win7 firewall repair tool that would stop with a "please connect to the internet" message when you tried to run it (when, you know, the firewall was borked and stuck in "deny all" mode). Or failures in the file system which could create a path >256chars long which Windows's own tools could create, but not delete or otherwise handle. Linux is sadly lacking in that manner as well!

      And I so hate not having to worry about rampant malware, adware, borked updates, updates that insist on knocking out network or other hardware, forced reboots etc..

      And don't get me started on the UI. I really wish Linux would get out of 2019 and join Windows in the late 80s! (hi Bob!)

      But back to your issue.. What was the minor issue you were having? It may be something I know how to fix in a couple of steps.

    3. Claverhouse Silver badge

      Re: The 39 Steps

      ... when I need to fix a minor problem the solution is composed of 39 steps. I shall not leap from the frying pan yet.

      Very wise. However the problem is unlikely to be Linux.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: The 39 Steps

        As a long time user of linux and by necessity Windows and Mac too, I agree with the complaint about linux being a pain in the arse to deal with some minor issues. It's absolutely without a doubt true.

        But what is worse, and I believe bears a lot of responsibility of holding back the wider adoption of linux, is the ugly, sarcastic and supercilious denial you get from linux zealots.

        Until people sort that out, linux is condemned to remain associated with Jeff Albertson types.

        Look up "curse of knowledge" and have a word with yourselves.

        1. unimaginative
          Linux

          Re: The 39 Steps

          I think the sarcastic denial is a response to people saying they cannot use Linux because of a minor issue because there are plenty of issues with Windows.

          On the other hand, asking for help fixing an issue tends to get a friendly response.

          1. Warm Braw Silver badge

            Re: The 39 Steps

            asking for help fixing an issue tends to get a friendly response

            Even if that were true (which in my experience it isn't), what you care about most is getting a response that's accurate.

            I've recently been exploring the wacky world of snap-packaged applications. Well, services, to be specific, simple applications are less of an issue. They're supposed to be straightforward, much easier to install than your average package. They're supposed to be distribution-agnostic and eliminate dependency hell - all the things you need to make application installation easier. They each come with their own page on snapcraft.io which is supposed to offer installation instructions. The fact that the packages have "interfaces" that mediate secure access to resources is not documented, nor the fact that you need to connect these interfaces manually on the host system in addition to simply installing the package. You'd think the snap installer (which knows the interfaces exist) might alert you, but it doesn't. And most of the helpful people on the Internet don't know they exist either, but nonetheless are eager to provide you with useless information that divert you from finding an actual solution.

            This isn't necessarily worse than asking for help with Windows problems, when most of the responses will suggest you install ad- or virus-infested "registry cleaners" or other dangerous fake diagnostic tools, but it certainly isn't any better.

            1. werdsmith Silver badge

              Re: The 39 Steps

              asking for help fixing an issue tends to get a friendly response

              Even if that were true (which in my experience it isn't),

              Most definitely not true. More likely addressed with the social skills of Beavis and Butthead.

              1. Teiwaz Silver badge

                Re: The 39 Steps

                Depends whether you ask in the right forum, how you ask, and in some forums whether you've actually attempted to research the problem and ignored duplicate questions and solutions already provided.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: The 39 Steps

                  that's why he wrote "tends". He's not saying 100% of linux responses are negative - you pointing out one such example does not change things.

            2. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Holmes

              Re: The 39 Steps

              regarding asking for Linux help in an online forum, or IRL for that matter, and generally getting a helpful response to your problems...

              "Even if that were true (which in my experience it isn't),"

              it isn't? Of course, it depends on how you ask.

              wrong way:

              "This @#$%-ing Linux thing SUCKS. Rant rant rant gripe gripe gripe complain blah blah blah. If it can't [insert minor nitty problem] I'll tell EVERYONE I know how much LINUX SUX"

              wrong way:

              "I'm a n00b at Linux. How do I XXX? I expect you to walk me through the process while I argue with you and tell you how wrong you are"

              wrong way:

              "Someone told me to install Linux and I did, and now my computer doesn't work"

              right way:

              "I have a problem with XXX. I've tried YYY after taking the time to google and research the problem, but it didn't work. Am I doing something wrong?"

              [if it is not clear, now, then you are beyond any help anyway]

          2. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: The 39 Steps

            No, Windows gets dragged in to these discussions as a way to defend linux. "It's OK for linux to be shit because windows is shitter". That's like saying it's OK for some car to be unreliable because another car is unreliable. Or suggesting that someone is stupid because they don't know how to do some simple thing that you've been doing for a decade. FFS a bricklayer could build a neat and accurate wall in a couple of hours, it would take me a week.

            Not good enough. The comment about the registry, when the vast majority of windows users don't know that the registry even exists. They don't need to, it isn't part of the normal OS use pattern of using the OS as a means to support the application, because the application is where the productivity is done. If something needs changing in the registry then somebody who knows what they are doing, locates the key with a quick search and does the work.

            If your problem requires you to edit a perversely named text file somewhere, down some obscure file path depends on how it was installed and you don't even know what editor to use because they are different in every distro, unless it's the esoteric VI(M) that's not better or worse than finding your way down a registry hierarchy to change a key if you don't know your stuff? Sure an experienced linux user will do a command line search to find the file and will know how to skip round a VI session.

            I personally have been tied in knots by cups trying to configure a printer. Of course there are examples where it's no effort at all, but there are many cases like mine where there was nothing useful and I had to try out drivers for other printers from the same manufacturer to find one that sort of works. Same on Windows? Yes of course, but that's not an excuse. You can't defend shit because something else is also shit. No matter how emotionally invested you are in that shit.

            1. Timmy B Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: The 39 Steps

              What you said..... Have one on me...

            2. Adair Silver badge

              Re: The 39 Steps

              Quit your whining! If it was easy there would be nothing to complain about, and some of us just love to complain.

              Meanwhile, Linux/OSX/Windows - can we just agree that they are all basically crap (given the complexity and human involvement this should come as no great surprise).

              All we have to do is be willing to discover which load of crap we find most enables us to do what we want to do, AND which we are most willing to tolerate. Hopefully those two requirements will be met by the same OS, but Sod's Law says that this happy confluence is unlikely.

              There we go, years of brutal and enjoyable flaming reduced to cold hard truth.

              You're welcome.

            3. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Meh

              Re: The 39 Steps

              Yeah, but the problem with trying drivers is sometimes, if the printer is in another room (or building), the wrong driver will dump a box of paper with 4 characters on each page, creating a billion print jobs that have to be individually canceled before you can shut it off... [I had that happen a few weeks ago with a Lexmark printer at a remote site - no more attempting to print from Linux until I have a working solution]

              Ideally Lexmark will have a CUPS driver I can find with a simple google search... but if they don't, I'm stuck, since that's "the office printer" and every other computer (that's not an RPi to be used in an embedded system, which is temporarily on the network so I can use ssh as well as pluma via remote X11 desktop to do development work on it) is running *cough* Win-10-nic... so they don't have problems, because Lexmark HAS to sacrifice to the Micro-shaft god to stay in business...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: The 39 Steps

                You went wrong at "Lexmark".

                1. Kiwi Silver badge

                  Re: The 39 Steps

                  You went wrong at "Lexmark".

                  Totally agree. I wish I'd looked at more than just the very attractive price tag when I got mine.

            4. sosipiuk
              Unhappy

              Re: The 39 Steps

              tied in knots by cups

              Out of curiosity, how is CUPS these days? I remember trying to set it up some 10 years ago or so and it still ranks as the most rage-inducing, user-hostile experience I've ever... well, experienced.

              I blocked most of it from my memory (happens with seriously traumatic experiences, I'm told) but it had some kind of admin account that was totally different from the system accounts that I didn't know the password to, and I needed to configure it by pointing a browser atmy own machine (?!?!) because it ran its own pseudo-webserver (?!?!?how is any of this needed for bloody printing?!?!?) and something about queues (?!?!?).

              It was a wired network printer. I had its static IP and its model, that's all that should be necessary for me to input. I couldn't even get that far. I never did get it to work, and I went back to Windows where it still works fine.

              The whole experience spooked me so badly that, although I do run Linux on my laptop, I haven't even tried to set up printing on it.

            5. keithpeter
              Windows

              Re: The 39 Steps

              All software is basically crap.

              I've had problems with *.BSDs, Linux and Windows.

              However, I was able to resolve the problems on OpenBSD myself by reading the man pages, and, in one case, a search of the mailing list archive (OpenBSD-misc).

              And on Linux by googling the text of the error messages and filtering the search terms by distribution and release number.

              But, I have to admit, on Windows I needed the help of one of the 5 professional IT support staff that the organisation employs. It was a funny thing about a graphics driver under Windows 10 for Education on a fairly low spec endpoint machine with a large monitor. The issue was resolved by replacing the machine.

          3. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Linux

            Re: The 39 Steps

            "asking for help fixing an issue tends to get a friendly response."

            even on IRC. or USENET. surprise!

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The 39 Steps

            For example, how many people moan that "Linux is too hard to install for most people" whilst referring to the windows users that never installed windows and never could anyway.

            apples and oranges.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The 39 Steps

          You'll find the FreeBSD folks are much more mature in that regard.

          Sure, there are issues from time to time (I'm pre-empting someone posting a link to a nasty FreeBSD thread to prove I'm totally wrong), but generally, things are far less caustic than with Linux users.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The 39 Steps

      You could always run a Windows virtual machine inside of Linux with KVM/Qemu and redirect the USB port the printer is plugged into or setup a virtual wifi NAT if you're really in a bind.

      It took me a while to get used to Linux until I found Linux Mint years ago.

      I rarely use Windows nowadays and when the security updates for Windows 7 cease I won't be using Windows at all.

      And forget about Windows 10.....

      If I wanted an OS with a GUI better suited for a mobile device with hit and miss updates, privacy abusing analytics and a questionable app store I would just use a Google Android device.

    5. jgarbo
      Devil

      Re: The 39 Steps

      Really. Just finished installing Win7 on wife's work machine. My screaming was loud enough to wake the dead. No Broadcom drivers, eth or wifi? Insane one workspace, teenage messages about "contact your administrator", help infantile when non-existent. Those two hours of my life are lost forever but the nightmare lingers. Then added Mint 19.1 as "back up", 12 mins, all done, including kitchen sink. WHY does anyone use MS unless at gun point?

    6. hmv Silver badge

      Re: The 39 Steps

      I could say exactly the same thing about Windows (having never used it as my primary desktop os). Turns out that treating Windows like (Unix|Linux) doesn't turn out too well; and I suspect the same applies the other way around.

  5. Neoc

    Back in time

    Just tried to access their website using three different browser (Firefox, Chrome and IE) and in all cases I got something that looked like a text-only website from the early 90s.

    Not really inspiring confidence.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: Back in time

      Just tried to access their website using three different browser (Firefox, Chrome and IE) and in all cases I got something that looked like a text-only website from the early 90s.

      Must be something broken on your end then. With and without blockers etc, their page looks like a fairly standard website.

      1. Neoc

        Re: Back in time

        https://zoringroup.com looks OK. https://zorinos.com/ (which is what came back from google when I did a search) is crap.

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Back in time

          https://zoringroup.com looks OK. https://zorinos.com/ (which is what came back from google when I did a search) is crap.

          Looks like they used the same stylesheet as 'windows.com' (resolves to https://www.microsoft.com/en-nz/windows locally) - both viewed with Waterfox 56.2.10 using Privacy Badger, No Script (with most of the default scripts turned OFF) and Adblock Plus.

          Pretty bog-standard site by today's standards.

          TBH, I prefer sites that have more text than pictures unless I am actually viewing a picture site. Especially when it comes to things like hardware or software - a few lines of text will tell me much more about a sick of ram than any number of pictures of it :)

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Back in time

            Looks like one of the free templates you get for Wordpress.

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Back in time

          PBKAC. Works for me.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Back in time

      did you try links or lynx? text-mode browsers. heh.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Back in time

      They are following "hipster design" which is currently the thing:

      Loads of white space, and lack of information (because white space is cool, and users are dumb)

      Ooops, not that much white space (Make the fonts HUGE to fill up some gaps)

      Lots of scrollie scrollie through big colour blocks.. (Because... well... all cool sites do it)

      Paypal is the worst.. Remember when the paypal web inteface was actually functional?

  6. Kiwi Silver badge
    Coat

    Forgot that one..

    Thanks Zorin!

    A while back (probably V8 IIRC) I used Zorin to help shift some people off Windows machines when they needed a healthy dose of familiarity without the familiar security holes, slurps and slowdowns.

    If any of the team are reading - you have my thanks even though I prefer Devuan these days (simply to get away from systemd).

    I'll have to have a play this weekend... But first. I need to... Get Zorin for me!

  7. cantankerous swineherd Silver badge

    systemd? will have a look anyway but Ubuntu was awful last time I tried it...

  8. Nematode

    Will give it a try

    Strangely, I just bought a super cheap HP lappie from Costco to mess with Win10 (W7 luddite that I am) and to install a play version of Linux on a machine that's not been built before the advent of microprocessors, i.e. one of my old disused machines. Long term plan is to get off Windaes to something that doesn't bork at each update, nor consumes vast amounts of cash at start and at every couple of OS releases (Apple, I'm calling you out). Latest download of Mint failed the basic test that it should "just work" - no driver for the oh so modern wifi adapter. Dur. Zorin iso sitting waiting to pop on a stick. We'll see...

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: Will give it a try

      I thought I'd give it a try then I realised its so long since I used windows I probably wouldnt have a clue if it was a good replacement!

  9. Roj Blake

    A View to a Kill?

    Is this anything to do with Bond villain Max Zorin?

    1. Alister Silver badge

      Re: A View to a Kill?

      Well... Max Zorin's plan A was to destroy Silicon Valley. Maybe this is Plan B, the longer version...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A View to a Kill?

      I always thought that film needed more Cowbell.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: A View to a Kill?

      "Is this anything to do with Bond villain Max Zorin?"

      AFAIK it's the brothers' actual surname.

  10. Captain Hogwash
    Thumb Up

    Lite

    I put the Lite version on a VM last night to see if it would be suitable for my SO's slow, old Windows 7 laptop when the MS support stops. I'm very impressed!

    I'm a Xubuntu user by preference but Zorin OS, properly set up for her by me, is going to have the best chance of keeping her away from the abomination that is Windows 10.

  11. Kane Silver badge
    Alien

    (three finger pinch will, for example, show a list of running apps and workspaces)

    It will also disable your enemies instantaneously if applied correctly.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: (three finger pinch will, for example, show a list of running apps and workspaces)

      triple bucky. just don't do the WRONG triple-bucky or your computer will reboot from the climax

  12. zhsysnova

    How exactly is it easier than LinuxMint?

    Other well established distros like LinuxMint are already very easy to use if one is accustomed to MS Windows.

    It would be nice to know how Zorin compares to LinuxMint in this regard.

    1. Captain Hogwash

      Re: How exactly is it easier than LinuxMint?

      Mint is easy to use coming from Windows but looks different enough to be off-putting to some. What impressed me about Zorin OS Lite was just how well they'd done in creating a similar look to Windows. This can obviously be done with other distros but it's time consuming and you need to know enough about Linux desktop environments already that you probably wouldn't want to bother.

      1. kaseki

        Re: How exactly is it easier than LinuxMint?

        With a little experimentation (not requiring terminal commands) one can make Mint look like Windows. My machines now running Mint 18.3 MATE and back into early Ubuntu have been setup to make the desktop look like my NT4 desktop of decades ago -- same (not teal!) background color, same desktop image. I never moved the menu to the top, and don't have a "bounce out" MSOffice-like pseudo toolbar on the right (which MS killed anyway), but the behavior is similar.

        What do I miss? I miss the upward flow of accumulated file space used within directories/folders that Explorer shows in its standard window format. I miss easy interface with oddball USB devices for Windows programs run under Crossover Linux (commercial Wine). (Memory, mouse and keyboard all work.) The only reason I have a Win7 build running on a laptop is to upgrade firmware on some photographic hardware.

        Windows gets drivers from hardware manufacturers at the time the hardware is offered for sale, whereas Linux gets them when the manufacturer gets around to it. This can impact Mint builds on very new hardware. All my LAN printers, on the other hand, have easily been "installed" due to being older. I just have to supply the IP address because the printers are not allowed to initiate communication with PCs on the PC lan.

        From a convenience point of view, the best things about Linux in general, and Mint in my case, is the ease and speed of installation (only one reboot), the ease of updating and upgrading (usually no reboots), and the greatly (!) reduced personal time needed to keep up with security hazards.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: How exactly is it easier than LinuxMint?

          "This can impact Mint builds on very new hardware."

          The opposite side of the coin is that Linux is likely to keep supporting old H/W because the vendors can't be arsed to supply drivers for newer varieties of Windows. Could it be because they want to sell something new to replace your otherwise perfectly functional printer or whatever?

  13. trevorde

    STOP IT NOW!

    The screenshot shows:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/05/apple_stand_copyright_lockdown/

    are you guys *deliberately* trolling Apple? Well done and keep up the good work!

  14. aqk
    Windows

    But it still won't run WordPerfect!

    Even if WINE is bundled with it.

    Not that I care. I'm quite happy with LibreOffice. But other old folks NEEEED their WP!

    Hmmmm.... Say! Is WINE included?

    1. fidodogbreath Silver badge

      Re: But it still won't run WordPerfect!

      What about Lotus 1-2-3 and subLogic Flight Simulator?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But it still won't run WordPerfect!

      Crysis.

    3. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: But it still won't run WordPerfect!

      Not that I care. I'm quite happy with LibreOffice. But other old folks NEEEED their WP!

      Few years back a boss of mine was bitching about how Linux couldn't run orifice 2007. So I grabbed a Orifice '07 install disk and installed it on Mint. Then he said he meant 2010. Also installed that (both versions concurrent). Sorry it was 95 (or 97, forget which year). That went in as well, as did the latest (this was 2012 or 2013).

      A few days later he joyfully noted the Windows XP taskbar at the bottom of my laptop screen.. Told him I'd show him something... Control+Alt+right arrow and suddenly there's the Win7 task bar. In each I started Explorer (the file manager) and Task Manager to show they were true Windows.. Running under Virtualbox in 'seamless' mode, both on a little D630 (which I am still using right now) with a whopping 4G of ram (1G ram per guest)

      Might try Zorin light on this, but I do prefer not to have SystemD and since Zorin's Ubuntu-based :( I was impressed with the brief looksee I got to give it on the weekend.

  15. Chris Parsons

    Alarming world of Linux?

    It's Windows I find alarming.

  16. Rob Davis

    Quality Assurance (QA) and SIMs and Mobile broadband support

    With my x86 tablet PC when booted into Ubuntu 18.04 Linux I've been unsuccessful getting the mobile SIM in it to connect to the operator's broadband service.

    Same tablet works fine booted into Windows 10 - it recognises the SIM and connects to mobile broadband.

    In Ubuntu, there is a section in the networking settings in the desktop manager for setting up mobile broadband but I've not been able to get it to work, despite trying several different values in the configuration settings. I would therefore conclude that the code has bugs.

    I'd like to revisit and see if recent updates have fixed this issue - I've raised it in their bug queue after much research and asking on forums.

    In any case it does make me wonder what QA (Quality Assurance) testing is done for Ubuntu and other Linux distributions and where the records of this testing are kept. I would think testing is done but I'm none the wiser as to what.

    Some distributions like Ubuntu are backed by a commercial entity, so I would expect there to be some testing as this is why they have releases, with LTS and non-LTS.

    I am a regular user of Ubuntu for other things, on the Desktop but would like to see if they've fixed the mobile broadband issue I mention above.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Quality Assurance (QA) and SIMs and Mobile broadband support

      With my x86 tablet PC when booted into Ubuntu 18.04 Linux I've been unsuccessful getting the mobile SIM in it to connect to the operator's broadband service.

      I've not had one of the WLAN cards in a laptop so haven't been able to use that, but I have on-and-off used my cellphone with it.

      Your ISP should be able to provide you with the details for the relative fields, but of course you need to know if the hardware is working itself (I mean working with Linux obviously) - have you been able to check that?

      May be able to help you out - but I'm likely in the wrong hemisphere so El Reg comments will be our only shot.

  17. Inkey

    Re 39 steps

    I used Linux for almost a year without realising on a 1/4 million £ printer (grand format Durst) the ripps were a custom disro too(Caldera)... Its what got me into using Linux as a daily and back into computing.

    Recently got ropped in to installing a new printer for my other half's customer, I assumed they had borked the old one from using 3rd party inks, as I was told they needed to print from an iPad and the outgoing machine was perfectly capable of doing so. The longest part ot the iPad set up was getting the gent to reset his apple id password... The laptop a Win10 item took well over 6 hours and 2 visits to get there, admittedly it needed to be updated and there's a bit of the old printers bloat that is or isn't still in there I can't tell, also I don't know how to make it print in office 360 without disabling the popup blocker.

    I just hooked up said old printer(3year old cannon somthing) in to mint19 and honestly it took longer to find the port on the printer and where the paper went in, than for the drivers to install and ask if I would like to print a test page. 2 clicks, 3 if I'd chosen the CUPS driver.(clicked OK for the model of printer it highlighted) and it prints OK.... So I'm having a difficult time with the 39 steps, have I done it wrong?...

    What's with all the Linux bashing? Driver issues are more of vendor issue than strictly a OS/distro issue.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2020