Apple strips clips of WWDC devs booing that $999 monitor stand from the web using copyright claims. Fear not, you can listen again here... Apple's focus on privacy, if you're not in China that is, now extends to its events, at least the embarrassing moments. The techno-glam-gear and services giant has demanded the removal of YouTube-hosted video excerpts of its live-streamed developer conference keynote. The offending clips captured crowd discontent – some booing …
It's where codependent and emotionally stunted people e-mail things while they drive. (Irony of expressing this sentiment via the Internet duly noted.)
just some small supplies for 49.99, 59.99, and 9.99.
I like how Apple prepares us for the time when the US currency will loose a few zeros (following the example of Venezuela et al.).
Clearly, Apple sells product from the Future and if you account for a few decades of inflation, the price looks allright. Seriously.
Yes, I think you are right - it is the difference between cost and value. Now I happen to believe that my shinies are good value - if expensive, but that is based on rather more than 'just' the hardware. Other peoples mileage does vary, the economists have an amusing explanation that involves the relation between perceived value and cost (as exhibited by luxury goods around the world)
> What the market will bear *is* the value of the product; no more, no less. Basic economics 101. It’s a philosophy that’s made De Beers very rich indeed
De Beers became very rich from a combination of clever marketing, a distinctly dodgy and abusive production pipeline (blood diamonds, anyone?), price fixing and active disinformation campaigns against their rivals (e.g. artificial diamonds).
So personally, I wouldn't use them as a shining example of basic economics, unless the example you're looking for is "corrupt capitalism 101".
@juice
”De Beers became very rich from a combination of clever marketing, a distinctly dodgy and abusive production pipeline (blood diamonds, anyone?), price fixing and active disinformation campaigns against their rivals (e.g. artificial diamonds).“
All true, but that’s talking about how they created their market. They may be a viciously unethical company, but how a market was created has nothing to do with the definition of economic ‘worth’ of a product or service.
"What the market will bear *is* the value of the product"
The best example of this isn't De Beers. It's something much closer to our day to day lives: MONEY.
The pieces of paper in our pocket have value _precisely_ because we all agree that they do, Even their metallic "equivalents" only have as much value as we are willing to give them.
Right now gold is changing hands for around $42k/kg, whilst platinum and palladium are going for about $44-45k/kg - normally the latter two are worth twice what gold is and they haven't changed in value much, so at some point, something's going to "give way", just like that bitcoin bubble finally did.
Things aren't helped by there being an estimated three times as much gold being traded at any given instant as actually exists. When things break there are going to be an awful lot of burned investors and from what I can see a lot of them speak Mandarin.
”The difference is that DeBeers doesn't sell mass-produced electronics. Diamonds actually are rare. Apple products? Not so much.
Apple drives the prices higher than the actual value of the product, and the adoring fanbois happily feed the shareholders' jones.“
Diamonds are a lot less rare than you think; De Beers, Rio Tinto and that Russian mob have stockpiled them for years in order to create scarcity and drive prices up. Come on Jake, I’d have thought you’d have known that.
Diamonds actually are rare.
No, actually they're pretty common. What is rare are those who can sell them. And what is also rare is anyone who will get a decent resale value on any they have. Go to a jeweller, buy a $5,000 diamond. Go back the next day and see if you can even get a tenner for it. You'd be lucky if they were to exchange it for an equivalent chunk of broken glass.
Yes, it's economics 101, where every concept is simplified to the point of inapplicability.
Consumers will often buy, and sometimes pay vastly extra, based on a brand name. The market isn't valuing the product highly, they are paying extra for the brand value
It's a logical decision: when a product is too complicated to evaluate, you don't have an informed marketplace. The efficient substitution is to rely on brand: the price premium is justified because the consumer is assured that the product is useful, well made, and the company will stand behind it.
When you start abusing your customers by selling them $50 stands for $1K, you start enter a risky territory. Perhaps your customers perceive the brand as more desirable because it's more of a luxury good. But most likely they will come to realize that you are just overcharging, and the value of the brand will crash. They aren't going to buy the next $2K widget that comes out, even if it's worth $2K, because the brand no longer substitutes for extensive product research.
The market isn't valuing the product highly, they are paying extra for the brand value
Hence why I will never buy apple - I don't see their products as 'well made' and I don't value the brand.
Many years back (OS9 or early OSX days) a friend owned a Mac. He was insanely protective of it and did everything he knew how to protect it. No one else could so much as jiggle the mouse without his oversight.
The GUI was locked up tighter than a virginal flea, but the underlying BSD-based OS was at the default level of wide open When I had his dialup IP (found via chatting with him on ICQ) I was able to walk straight in (ssh IIRC, but maybe telnet) with full root privs. I did tighten things up for him while there (and left a marker to prove what I was saying, in the form of a text file on his desktop). Any one else who was 'port scanning' would've had the same level of access, although port-scanning in them days would've been rather slow (but probably higher returns given the equally wonderful MS defaults...)
That hurt the Apple brand in my eyes, and I've not been interested in them since.
So your point is that 20 years ago you hacked a mate’s computer and that means you won’t touch that brand.
No I didn't "hack" anything. I heard about how "secure" crApple was - armed guards, autocannons, and a billion savage dogs guarding the front entrance. But several thousand back entrances and not so much as a "authorised personnel only" sign on them.
There's lots of other stuff as well, eg the glued-down ribbon sata cables that despite not possibly moving (thus no chance of metal fatigue) would commonly fail on their laptops, multitudes of other interesting engineering solutions to totally ridiculous problems that never should've occurred in the first place.. Cooling problems that'd put HP to shame for "screwup of the decade".
Some OK software but crap hardware that was vastly overpriced, and the sort of marketing that turns otherwise intelligent people into slavering imbeciles. (Or does using the crap mess people's brains up?)
TL;DR My point is I noticed how bad the product was 20 years ago with appalling security. I've yet to see anything since that would make me even rate the product as "average" let alone "worth 1/3 the price".
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There's no point replying to Elpuss. If you look at other comments he's made on other threads, you're not going to make him admit that $999 is a stupid price for a stand. Honestly, it's like talking to an addict. He doesn't have a problem, he's got it under control. YOU'VE got the problem, not him.
"$999 is a stupid price for a stand"
Quite possibly. But people pay stupid prices for stuff all the time. In this case, some Apple fanbois will probably buy the thing because it has an Apple logo on it. And realistically, it probably is a high quality $250 monitor stand.
But I think the major market is probably a small number of high end graphics workstation purchasers. And there you are dealing with folks who are trying to push through a purchase order for a computer costing maybe $30,000 or $40,000 and a monitor in the $5,000 range through the corporate bureaucracy. Who really cares whether the total package comes to $37,619 or $36,869 (per unit)? ... And all the hardware comes from the same vendor -- which cuts down on the work for Purchasing whose job is is to execute the P.O. not to question the need for the stuff.
"But I think the major market is probably a small number of high end graphics workstation purchasers."
I don't, the users in that market mostly use fully-repositionable monitor arms, which are not only about an eighth of the price of this stand, but are considerably more useful.
This is aimed, mostly, at the "I Want A Shiny" exec crowd, who simply MUST use Outlook on a 6k screen and so must also have a $999 monitor stand to hold it on.
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"All execs answer to somebody, even if it’s the shareholders - and there’s no way $999 would just slip through on expenses unless there’s a damn good reason for having it."
I take it you've never seen the inside of an upper-level manager's office in a Fortune 500, then? I've seen coffee makers that cost in excess of $6,000 ... and seriously expensive coffee to match. The other furnishings in such offices are similar. All on company expense.
And no, this is not a one-off. It's the norm.
To me, with my use case, $999 is not something I’d ever consider paying. Others might see the value. If enough people see the value and pay the money, it’s worth it. If they don’t, it won’t sell and clearly wasn’t worth it. Time will tell.
It’s really not that difficult to understand.
Another example being Remington Shavers.
Victor "I bought the company" Kiam doubled the price of the things, correctly judging that they were undervalued and their low price was putting consumers off - at the new, higher price and with better marketing, sales ballooned and turned Remington around from a struggling maker that had been spun off from Remington Rand.
"Sales records would appear to indicate they’ve accurately judged what people are prepared to pay"
The last time I checked, smartphone and tablet sales were pretty much flatlining because of market saturation (certainly in developed countries and increasingly in developing countries). Not only that, all these insane prices will do is deter professional users from remaining with, or switching to, Apple products.
Back in 1637, tulip mania ended very badly and it seems that the current Apple management are intent on following that really bad example. Oh, and just for the record, I want Apple to succeed and thrive in the 21st century not least to provide a rival to Microsoft but the current management and design team really do need a thorough clear out if that is to happen.
Price is a factor of market forces, and value is in the eye of the beholder. What might be good value for one person is a pile of crap to another.
So what if people are paying a premium just for the brand name when similar products are available at 10% of the price? The same could be said of a painting bearing the name "Picasso" that may be very similar to something produced by a schoolboy.
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Two problems as I see it.
Just because someone is willing to buy the product does not mean it is an appropriate price. Tulips have come up as an example. That is the economics 101 argument against ridiculous pricing.
Second problem is more of a macroeconomics issue. People do things for a variety of reasons, mostly having to do with money and social interests. Abusing your customer base will eventually get you to a tipping point where your company becomes "uncool", the bulk of your fan base vanishes, and you will *never* get them back as they now feel betrayed. This is likely why Apple is so sensitive about this audience reaction; they know they are dancing on the precipice.
Ah yes, the Efficient Market Theory. The problem being that there is abundant evidence that markets are rarely very efficient. Quite possibly that is because virtually no sane seller wants to operate in an efficient marketplace. They want the maketplace skewed in in their favor and are quite good at achieving that goal through advertising, patents, copyrights, lies, legal tricks, illegal tricks or even outright coercion.
"Money doesn't grow on trees"
Interesting fact that no one asked about: American paper currency is made of a cotton (75%) and linen (25%) blend. There is actually no tree pulp or paper involved in the process. So indeed, (American) money does not grow on (or of) trees.
I don't make any claim of knowledge about currency from other countries.
This monitor stand idea should see some people fired at Apple. Whoever came up with the pricing and didn’t realize how much of a PR disaster it was going to be.
It’s really a laughable money grab and gives much ammunition to critics who trash Apple’s cost-benefit. And there’s absolutely no way to disagree here.
It’s pretty much Apple’s own I Am Rich, down to the price:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich
‘it's not like it's a mass market consumer product, is it?’
It is a silly price but you’re right about it not being a mass market consumer product. I expect the majority of people complaining across social media are either Apple haters looking for any excuse or consumers who simply aren’t the target market for the Mac Pro.
I'm not an Apple hater. Proof: I'm typing this on a Mac, running Mac OS. I don't feel hatred toward Apple for this. I do find it laughable, a bit sad, and pathetic. There's a major difference. I'm in that category that includes a lot of people who neither love nor hate everything Apple does. They're a company. We support them when they do something we like; we acknowledge facts like their equipment coming with a much larger profit margin than certain competitors, but we still buy it if it has value for us; when they're in a reality distortion field and we're not, we laugh and say they're making a mistake; when they make us angry by, for instance, causing me a lot more trouble trying to install a Mac OS update than it really should be, we say things like "I am much less likely to buy another Mac unless they fix this reliability problem". It's fun not to have to love or hate a company.
Somehow I suspect I’d be more miffed if I was actually getting ready to buy that monitor. Which apparently is worth its price for some professions. Then I really would have skin in the game and would be facing paying $1k for a monitor stand. As it is it’s just funny and somewhat embarrassing to Apple customers.
Not an Apple hater, I own a number of their products and I will buy more in the future if/when I decide it worthwhile. An Apple cynic? Guilty as charged.
Nice try reframing this ripoff as somehow justified. See icon.
"This monitor stand idea should see some people fired at Apple. Whoever came up with the pricing and didn’t realize how much of a PR disaster it was going to be."
But obviously the keynote wasn't the very first time Tim Apple heard about this, so irrespective of who came up with the pricing, TC was not only OK with it but was happy for it to be singled out in the keynote. Not really sure exactly what kind of reaction he was expecting.
I generally find the Apple OS runs much more smoothly than Win 10. Less maintenance is needed to keep it free of crap. No need for half as many third party software to do simple tasks. The main problem Apple have is their many hardware issues they’ve had over the post-Steve Jobs years and their reluctance to fix (seeings as it’s their fault) without charging silly money. Also their products have been getting increasingly more expensive. I owned a MacBook Pro back in the day that cost me £1400. The equivalent model today starts at £2000. £1400 buys you a pretty average performing Mac laptop now.
”Also their products have been getting increasingly more expensive. I owned a MacBook Pro back in the day that cost me £1400. The equivalent model today starts at £2000. £1400 buys you a pretty average performing Mac laptop now.“
It’s because the rest of the market is catching up. When the category average was $1000 they could get away with charging $1500, now the category average has crept up to $1500 (as mfrs started to see that people would pay it) Apple have crept up to $2000.
I think they definitely did know it was going to get that reaction though, I watched that bit on YouTube before the takedowns and he move so swiftly past that it didn't give the audience much chance to react. When they know it's going to be positive, they leave a gap for applause and drooling from the press, this was the exact opposite! It was so funny to watch honestly
You get nothing extra, you have to choose whether you're going to add $/€/£200 to the price or $/€/£1000 or prop it against the wall.
The mount and stand use some special magnetic gubbins to attach to the back of the monitor which is probably patented so you won't be getting a third party one, or if you do Apple's PR will make sure you know that the guarantee for the screen is voided if was attached to a Lucky Rainbow Dragon stand when it fell off.
I'm informed that it's not a Vesa mount.
It's a Vesa adaptor.
Your $5k or $6k monitor needs $200 spending before you can attach it to a Vesa mount.
Which is sold seperately, and not by Apple on their page.
So you are right that third party Vesa mounts won't be available straight off, and would you really want to trust your new, expensive and very heavy monitor to a third party adapter?
Does the monitor come with a stand at all, or do you basically have to pony up for it or the over priced vesa adapter?
Let me quote from that obscure source, https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/specs/:
Price: $4999
Pro Stand and VESA Mount Adapter sold separately
So yes, you would need to lean it against your two morning's capuccino lattes if you forget to buy the stand.
Anyone buying these overpriced monitors is almost certainly going to have some production desk setup, with high quality arms already installed supporting the VESA mount.
I would estimate that only a few would want Apple's stand anyway, and that few has now diminished significantly. Apple may make a few thousand of them. The $199 VESA adaptor is a rip off too.
Third party opportunity if ever there was one.
I know what you're thinking. "Does the stand use six magnets or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, while reading the description on Alibaba, I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a Pro Display XDR, the most expensive display in the world, and would blow your budget if it fell off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
It is the VESA mount that puzzles me.
I did not particularly mind the price of the stand. My first reaction was simply "ok, so people will buy a third-party wall mount or whatever", but then it turns out that the thing isn't VESA-compatible. WTF...
Luckily I am not in the target group for this monitor anyway. I'm thinking I might want two 40" UHD monitors, but I have to do some measurements first to see how they'll fit on my desk. My ageing Cinema 30" feels small (and kids today don't do dual link DVI anymore).
Do you really think Apple have created this beautiful object of desire to allow it to be sullied with something so base as a VESA mount and screws in the back? Of course not, you need the magnetic adaptor (dongle).
If Apple's still going in 100 years, we'll have monitors held in place by antigravity, just because.
They can sell a gold plated model (and for 999 they should) and it does not matter; some insecure man with $ will buy it.
They didn't test the presentation like they should have; then they'd realize they should have mentioned the VESA and made that sanely priced while saying YOU pros can choose the stand that suits your needs (show photo of selection at Apple Store.) THEN offer a high end expensive stand option.
I seriously wouldn't ever consider or want an OEM bundled stand on a pro monitor; just stop including the things already and make everything VESA. A VESA stand should be like "batteries not included." Including plastic trash stands for serious users is not responsible.
I seriously wouldn't ever consider or want an OEM bundled stand on a pro monitor; just stop including the things already and make everything VESA. A VESA stand should be like "batteries not included." Including plastic trash stands for serious users is not responsible.
We've got some radiology standard monitors (made by people that make these things, not the people that make your TV), that came with their own very sturdy adjustable VESA bases, the only reason you'd want to change them is to use an arm mount. Expensive, but actually closer to Apple's stand than its monitor in price.
YouTube copyright claims are broken anyway. It works something like this:
1. Bigcorp dings a video with a copyright claim.
2. Channel owner appeals and says no because four seconds of song is fair use or an audience booing doesn't fall copyright or whatever.
3. Bigcorp handles the appeal and has the final say.
Hence the likes of Nintendo (or Apple) just rampaging round YouTube taking down stuff.
See, here's the speech:
"Our new Pro Display is aimed at professionals - and as professionals we all have that drawer full of power leads - you have that, right? Every time you buy something it comes with a lead, and you throw it in that drawer? Well, here at Apple, we're trying to do our part for the environment and for your office by not including things you don't need. We know that most of you have professional VESA mount points already, so by default we are shipping the new Pro Display with a VESA mount as standard - You don't need a stand, so why should you pay for one?"
Cue applause.
"But home users, don't worry, we haven't forgotten you. We know that the layout of your working environment is important to you, and we've created a bespoke stand for the Pro Display that we think stands up amongst the best in the industry. If you don't already have a preferred monitor stand solution at your desk, we're selling the Apple Pro Stand as an optional extra. If you don't need a stand we're making sure you can do the right thing for the environment and aren't being forced to order one, but if you need one we have you covered - with the quality you've come to expect from Apple prodcucts."
Cue more applause.
All they needed to do was ship the VESA option by default, give THAT speech which makes it sound like they're doing you a favour by not charging you for something you don't need, and simply NOT MENTION the price of the damn stand. Sure, a thousand bucks is still utterly INSANE money for a monitor stand, but see how much better that sounds already? Of course it's still horse shit when you have to pay a thousand dollars for a stand, but damnit Apple used to be good at this sort of marketing guff. They should stop dropping that ball. It's one of the few they have left to work with.
Yeah, $5999 announcement, and a $4999 "OEM" solution without the stand.
I understand (ahem) that this is probably a short/small run custom aluminum 5d CNC cut hand painted by trained orphaned Blue whales or something, so costs could be prohibitive. But not offering a similar non-pro (but "consumer pro") stand for like $199/$299 and still make a killing on profit is strange.
Yes, dropping a $5k monitor is a bad thing. But we've had $10k tvs for decades now, and they often have mounting options that scale to the size/shape/solutions and people.
"offering a similar non-pro (but "consumer pro") stand for like $199/$299"
Well, the VESA adaptor is $199 and you can get a really nice, fully adjustable hydraulic monitor arm for £50, so $299 is about right.
Hence, if Apple actualy did this the price would be $599.
"If you’re in the market for a pro display the $5999 won’t bother you, but separating out the stand price was PR madness."
The same as comparing storage options on your next computer and realising how much you're being overcharged for a larger SSD or their surcharge for plugging in an extra memory module for you.
From where I'm standing, their standpoint is looking embarassing. I'd stand a grand on the fact that were anybody summond to the stand in a case for copyright imfringement, the case would have no legal standing, stand no chance of success, and nobody would fight to the last stand.
Bet a price drop is announced very soon though.
When he gives the prices of all the items he never says hundreds or thousands for example the stand he says nine ninety nine, which to me is 9.99. If the price is 999 you would say nine hundred and ninety nine. Says it like they do to make it seem cheaper but everyone knows Apple is expensive!
I’ve never watched/attended/been interested in these cult events. First timer here. I DO own (and use) some Apple products (SE and airpad2) . They are my fashion and design thingies.
But this is exactly like these staged Trump rallies. That are the same as those murrican TV shows. Signs with “applause” and whatnot held up outside of camera view (or just a stage-performance with the same effects).
Watch the dark stage with dark-clothed people walking about in dark shoes with WHITE soles, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, good show, good marketing, good brainwashing, wow, just wow. And psychology works, almost like mass-hypnotism. What a bunch of weasles. Have to re-assess my fashion and design choices I guess.............
Disclaimer: I use Macs for my business which is now full time (and quite successful, thank you God). And will continue to do so. I do not have an iPhone, never have and never will. I still use my original banana phone and will continue to do so whilst I can get replacement batterries for it. Oh, and I have an iPod Classic.
But this new Macpro and monitor? There is no way I can justify buying one of these. And almost a 1000 quid for a stand? Why? What is so special about it? Mr Cook, a thousand quid may be loose change to you but it sure as hell is not loose change to me. Having said that,
(please see title) I will, of course, be buying said items.
Cheers... Ishy
Tiananmen Square? Really?
It's bad enough when people start complaining becuase someone's had some fun in vague temporal proximity to a tragic event. Or even a sad one. Remember all those radio stations refusing to play happy music after Diana died? But even worse when we have to watch out for historical events.
Isn't it in appalling taste, all those people going on beach holidays in June and disrespecting the sacrifice our brave boys at Normandy? Boo!*
And what about the memory of poor emporer Julian and his army, slaughtered by the Persians in 363 AD? Going to church in this month is definitely hard on the poor sausage, who was the last pagan emporer, trying to reverse the Christianisation of his empire...
Let's just call Apple arses, for the fact that they're being arses.
*On which note, when I heard the headline this morning that Merkel, May, Macron and Trump where there - I had this vision of the perfect rememberance ceremony, where they all get off a landing craft on the beach, and Merkel is waiting for them in a foxhole, optionally equipped with ceremonial commemorative machine gun, to welcome them to the beach. It's possible I have a diseased mind...
It's time for your annual reaming! <LOL>
It's always amazed me that people can be daft enough to buy stuff that is so obviously over-priced. But then it amazed me how many people voted for Brexit,.... and Trump,.... and how many people fall for other totally obvious scams. we do seem to be breeding for gullibility :-(
What amazes me is how many people fail to realise buying Apple is not compulsory. There are those who point out that their {insert manufacturer here} phone running Android is so much better than any iPhone so how dare Apple want to charge more. Then those who complain about Apple's control of apps and restrictions, at the same time saying their Android phone is far better. I can only assume these people actually crave Apple products but aren't prepared to admit it, nor pay what Apple ask.
I use both iOS and Android devices - depending on need. But then, I don't complain that my Dacia doesn't accelerate as well as a Porsche.
Basically, Apple chose to put the new Mac Pro at a very high price point because it doesn't want people undercutting it by expanding their lower-end Macintosh computers. So Apple prices its computers the way Qualcomm prices their modem chips. This behavior is annoying even to people who can manage with Windows and Android just fine, because maybe Windows and Android would be better if they had real competition. You know, like AMD is giving to Intel.
I'm sure someone will make a bracket to repurpose an old iMac 24'' or 27'' 2009 iMac stand, there's a lot of Aluminium in these and they would still make a great stand with some slight mods (adding a new top bracket).
I'm surprised Apple don't think like this, because repurposing the old removeable iMac stand from an older model, cuts the number of old iMacs being resold into the market via ebay, which is Apple's biggest competition, a good second-hand iMac.
They really didn't improve in terms of design after the 27'' 2009-2011 iMac, magnetically held glass and a mini display port that allows an iMac to switch between an iMac and being repurposed as a secondary display, even as a display for a regular PC with a display port card, for video output.
The later thunderbolt models (Apple removed the DP) reduced their usefulness in this regard, compatibility was always a pain, the right cables / Thunderbot 1/2/3 etc.
Still, great machines for their age.
With a thundbolt cable to a macbook you can still turn the screen into a monitor with the added benefit of network connection sharing and using the iMac as a time machine store.
I know because I salvaged an abandoned one at work for just such a purpose (the joys of work issued equipment)
I'm working on it..
KREBS The event will take place in the usual location.
Tickets are rare and Apple are controlling them tightly.
We did manage to get a seat for Steiner, who will approach from the West…
...and hopefully they won't notice the butter pretzen in his pocket.
HITLER We'll get the news with no delays
KREBS My Führer... Steiner...
JODL Steiner has reported that the monitor stand will cost
A thousand dollars, bar one.
HITLER You say the monitor stand. Just the stand.
That must be a mistake.
Steiner's news is wrong!
That's obscene money for a stand. Obscene.
A thousand dollars, bar one?
Then what is the cost of the screen?
A hundred thousand?
What do they think we're made of? Gold leaf?
BURGDORF My Führer, I believe that we can get a loan from…
HITLER From Who? Deutche bank loaned their reserves to Trump.
BURGDORF My Führer, what you say against Apple is monstrous!
HITLER This is proof that they are the SCUM of the technical people!
Apple have no honor this time!
They call themselves great because they have spent YEARS at the design academy of Steve Jobs and Co.
But the coat tails of the genis are no more.
They have put every conceivable OBSTACLE in my way!
Do they think I would sell my house... to have all the shiny things like STALIN!
I work hard for what I earn.
And yet, they want all that and more.
And for what...
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING I HAVE PAID AND PAID AND PAID!
To find their cloud services are run by Google!
But all of us, this time we will not pay.
ANYONE WHO BUYS ONE OF THESE...
PROVES THAT HE IS PAID TOO MUCH!
TRAUDL Don't worry, Hackintosh isn't that bad.
HITLER The commands I type are lost in the null dev.
It is impossible to create under these circumstances.
It is over.
The war... is lost.
But if you, gentlemen, believe that I pay these prices, you are very much mistaken! I would rather put a bullet through my head.
Do what you want...
for numerous references and links to the Stand-gate. Hopefully, this article stays up long enough for other vultures to pick it up, and then the post-vultures from the mainstream media, beeb and such. And wouldn't it be grand for, say, Ms Streisand to link to it in one of her tweets? We might, for a moment, forget about Trumpobrexit and such.
He did say 49.99 for the standard screen and 59.99 for the nano touch screen? I've heard of psychological pricing, but this is taking it to new levels...
Also, 199 for a VESA stand.... I can buy a Philips 4K monitor for that on Amazon. And by the looks of things, that also includes the stand.
Considering Dyson manages to sell €450 magic hairdryers, I'm sure there's probably a market for this.
The majority of these machines are bought by businesses anyway so the cost is written off as a business expense but even so, that pricing is ludicrous.
The only thing I could possibly say is that the device is probably made in low volume.
Any idea where it's being made? I'm just curious if this is the US manufacturing arm?
They are already facing criticism in the US over widespread claims that they are 'silencing conservative voices.' Not just from the angry mob, either - politicians are getting in on the game, and starting to agitate for regulation to 'protect free speech.' If they take down Crowder's videos, even if they have perfectly valid reasons to do so, it'll just feed into the growing conspiracy theory. Political types will claim this proves that the lefties in charge at Google are trying to force all right-wing views off the internet, and Google gets to deal with the backlash.
They are trying to remain politically neutral, which just means that high-profile channels all get a free pass.
Actually all I know about him is the articles about him and Youtube. But I will, as the saying goes, fight for right to say it. As Apple is mis-using the copyright claim to hide an embarrassing moment, youtube uses "hate speech" to shut down various groups it doesn't like, while leaving up anti-white and anti-Semitic groups.
As someone who grew up in the Civil Rights era, I can think of any number of black leaders who would have been shut down. May I suggest Malcom X to start with.
Pretty much your standard political comedian: He just points across the political divide, makes a lot of very vulgar comments about how stupid the people there are, and then tries to pass it off as insightful commentary. His arguments mostly consist of misrepresenting his opponents, explaining how this misrepresentation is evil and wants to take over the world, throw you in prison, and so on. Tends to say a lot of horrible things, then when called out on it claims he was only joking.
Crowder is an idiot - but getting busted for calling a guy gay who makes a big deal every day about being gay, well, I wouldn't call that monstrous harassment - the guy is proud of it and brags on the internet/youtube in every post.
As for the shirt - "Socialism is for figs" - If your mind substitutes the wrong last word, it's a statement about YOUR mind...I guess showing people their own issues is verboten now.
I'm sure it'll all work out fine when all criticism of the flaws of the powerful is banned...we need to just let them get on with ruining things for us, right?
Even many left-leaning reporters are calling BS on this move.
These monitors are targeted at the pro video crowd, where a reference monitor can set them back $40K. To that market $999 is nothing. To the devs at WWDC its a ludicrous amount (though, from what I can gather, there is quite a lot of engineering in what is going to be a low volume product).
Let's face it if you're buying a display that costs 5 grand then 1 grand for a stand isn't as much as it seems.
Do the math(s). An average earner might spend, what, 500 quid if in the market for a high quality monitor. So relatively speaking that's 100 quid for a high quality stand.... or 20 quid for the VESA mount.
If you multiplied your bank balance by the appropriate factor would you give a shit about this? It's not for people who use payday loans ffs.
The people booing it want it but can't afford it. If Ferrari say their next car is 200 grand and I boo it doesn't mean they've made an overpriced/shit car.
"Let's face it if you're buying a display that costs 5 grand then 1 grand for a stand isn't as much as it seems."
The cost of the display in no way makes the stand seem anything close to reasonably priced. Not even high priced. It still seems ludicrously priced.
"The people booing it want it but can't afford it."
This is almost certainly false. The audience there is a demographic that does very, very well financially. I wasn't even there, and I could afford the stand without a problem. I wouldn't have booed, but I certainly would have laughed my ass off.
So if I make 10X more than you, I should be expected to pay 10X what you pay for a hammer? Have you thought this through?
My bank balance can afford the latest Apple bling. Unfortunately for Apple, I refuse to pay a premium for a logo that doesn't actually increase performance.
Ferraris are not the cars you think they are. Drive a couple. But beware ... you might lose your somewhat obvious faith in Marketing.
So you can't even use your existing VESA mount monitor arm on it without buying a 200 fscking dollar adapter??? I honestly had assumed at least if you didn't want the stand, you could just what you already have.
But of course, silly me - it's Apple.
God damn, you can tell Apple's iPhone and iPad golden era is over and sales are flatlining - first the double-the-cost-of-the-components base spec Mac Pro, and now this...
No, the copyright claim is very true. Apple can validly say it was within its rights: it graciously permits fans to post footage from WWDC containing copyrighted Apple material, but it withdraws this permission in cases of use by competitors in their ads, or destructive criticism. So the issue isn't a false copyright claim, only the use of the copyright law in a manner which won't help Apple's image.
If it's really Apple trying to "censor" the "boo"ing in the video, then they would've removed it from the official version too. And the version with the "artificial" laugh
From how I see it, the only premise to the argument that Apple is censoring the audible booing is that they filed DMCA takedown requests for a couple of vids.
Even if we were to suppose for the sake of argument that they purposely kept the "boo" in the official stream and didn't take down the others as not to be accused of censoring stuff. But what's the proof for that?
Very few people are going to go to the official stream, and find out what timestamp the booing happened at, then fast forward to that and listen.
But a quick ten second Youtube vid called "booing the $1,000 Apple stand", is another matter entirely.
It's also possibly been done by an over-zealous underling in marketing / online reputation management, without thinking things through.
In addition to nobody being likely to go into the middle of the stream to find it, the sentence "Apple edits out developers' discontent about prices" is too obviously asking for a Streisand effect. Even those people who tried to take down these youtube videos realizes that editing a live stream looks shifty and doesn't end well for them.
I love apple products... the ones I can afford... like a 7-year-old MacBook Pro. BUT: do they really want to be known as the Waitrose of tech? Selling only luxury goods that you'd better be rich to be able to afford. £3000 laptops, £1000 monitor stands and the like, digital watches that cost over £1000. It's one thing to be reassuringly expensive, but to be outrageously expensive just prices you out of markets that you can ill afford to lose. Apple, please stop being ridiculous.
I'm sure many must have already asked (but I haven't time to read all posts, sorry): surely the same manufacturers who design, build and sell everything from TV stands through tablet stands to phone cases—and who seem to get their product to market within days—will find it absurdly easy to sell $99 stands that are 95% as good as the Apple ones?
And if legal issues could somehow get in the way (though I don't see how Apple could enforce any kind of exclusivity on a simple stand), if you have a friend who works in a CNC shop, or even access to a 3D printer, it surely wouldn't be difficult to knock up some home brew stands?
Heck, if you're feeling really tight-fisted, you could probably knock up something serviceable (and uniquely stylish) from the plumbers' supply section of your local hardware store?
It's hard to imagine anyone spending $1k on a monitor stand ... isn't it?
Anyway, to the nearest hour, how long till the plans for 3D-printable Apple monitor stand components are available on the net?
I'm very confident that a substitute stand will hit aliexpress about two days after the screen is released. However, I don't think you'd want to test your luck putting something heavy like this off the front of something that comes out of a home 3D printer. I haven't seen a 3D printer capable of producing something with enough integrity for this purpose. It works fine for lighter things, or if the monitor was simply placed on top, but I don't envy those who attach the monitors to their ABS or PLA stands to hear a disconcerting creaking sound.
When you live in Silicon Valley, home prices(avg 3mill) are 6x the median home price of a home in California, or 15x a home in Illinois.
So basically, a $1000 Silicon Valley Inspired Apple Monitor Stand should cost about $66 dollars in Illinois.
But Apple monitor stands are not for the wee low value plebeians.
If you listen real carefully during the boo'ing portion of the video, I think you can hear the Apple announcer mutter something like "let them eat cake".
"...demonetized due to continued egregious actions that have harmed the broader community"
Google is becoming more and more anti-"free speech". For many of us here, our fathers and grandfathers fought to block the sort of behaviour much of society now seems to champion.
Google, Facebook etc are blocking free speech as fast as they can manage. Those who hold certain views aren't allowed to speak, whether it's to say abusive things to some passer by or to challenge something they view as being wrong in this world.
This is letting the terrorists win (especially when it is in response to alleged "terror incidents", many of which should never be classed as "terrorism") and letting fascism come in by default. The wrong values are being promoted, and good things are being hidden away.
For those who forget/don't know, I grew up 'different' in a small rural community in the 70s and 80s. I know full well what it is like to be on the receiving end of "hate speech". I've been abused, threatened, and physically attacked - often by groups and sometimes with adults (even teachers) joining in because I deserved it since I was 'a worthless little fag'. I know full well what "hate speech" can feel like, but I will not for one moment support any laws preventing the freedom of speech. I may draw the line at promoting violence (although that is usually handled in a hypocritical way eg "That man promotes violence towards gays, he should be executed!"), but 'freedom of speech' should be, nay, must be sacrosanct. At most, only the direct and willing promotion of harm should be checked.
As I understand it (disclaimer, not a Yank) the freedom of speech provisions in the US prevent the government from smashing up printing presses and prosecuting journos, editors and publishers under certain conditions.
They do not, and never have, compelled a particular publisher to publish a particular document/book/pamphlet/video/whatever.
The fact that Youtube, and others, pretend to be light oversight platforms but actually are starting to censor stuff due to commercial (and, now, political) pressure is a different issue.
If you are an American you should already know this.
If you are a Kiwi I'm not sure you have these provisions in your system. (Cool PM, though.)
I do not understand this Apple hate thing.
Should I hate Sony because my mate has spent north of 10.000 quid on a Sony telly? I don't have a telly.
Should I hate B.M.W. because another mate has spent over 40.000 quid on a car? I don't have a car.
So why the hate for people who spend x number of quid for an Apple product. They don't have an Apple product.
Just don't buy what you don't like. I am sensing the politics of envy here.
Just saying.
Cheers... Ishy
Oh, it's not just envy. Basically, Apple is fairly obviously pricing its product the way Qualcomm priced its modem chips. For products not to be priced as commodity items, by aggressive competitors, seems positively immoral. And given that Apple is the underdog and not the dominant force in the computer market, stupid too.
I don't have much personal experience of using Apple products. I can remember using a IIE and have seen other people's iPads, iPods, iPhones in use.
The booing of the faithful is akin to the little boy in the crowd piping up with "He's got no clothes on."
When the crowd turn it is going to be very ugly.
...is not “some booing and mostly gasping and groaning.” I’m sorry, but given the quite unique tech reporting at El Reg that I’ve been enjoying for ~25 years, it’s so lame that you sometimes stoop to this childishness.
Yes, I know you’ve been blackballed after you f*cked with a touchy SPJ with your “jag-wire” teasing, and that’s the way sh** happens sometimes. It would be interesting to ask if you could go back to August 2002 and expunge that one line of “jag-wire” so you can be involved with the orgies at Apple Park every quarters, would you...?
Yes, $1000 stands that are optional is hilarious, but then again, bluetooth beacons forwarded from strangers to locate your lost or stolen Apple devices that is OFFLINE is pretty f**cking cool, isn't it...?
I guess you have nothing to lose now by writing this kind of clickbait, but it’s still unnecessary. Just take the high road...or maybe not. ;)
Frankly, I think I.F. Stone had it right: one's reporting is more accurate if you don't get too close to the powerful. Keep up the insightful reporting that still makes me laugh out loud sometimes.
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