back to article You go that way, we'll go Huawei: China Computer Federation kicks back at IEEE in tit-for-tat spat

Following disquiet over the IEEE's decision to block Huawei-linked researchers from doing various academic tasks, a Chinese computer research body has reportedly severed ties with the IEEE in retaliation. The China Computer Federation (CCF) declared that it is suspending communications with the US-based Institute of Electrical …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

    but a Chinese-based corporation should not be subjected to Chinese law.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

      The whole racket about Huawei is how they're allegedly subjected to Chinese law *outside of China*.

      How better to show them that is really bad than by imposing US law on non-US citizens outside of the US?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

        It must be horrid for the Russian spam factory employees posting here. A post that would gather enthusiastic replies elsewhere just gets shut down with a little logic.

        Best get back to the daily mail where they aren't so critical, eh?

      2. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

        How better to show them that is really bad than by imposing US law on non-US citizens outside of the US?

        It's not about citizens. It's about companies doing business in another country. If your company is doing business in another country, then you have to follow their laws as applicable.

        I'm tending to believe that this current pissing contest is more about politics and bullying than any thing else.

        1. Adrian 4 Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

          "I'm tending to believe that this current pissing contest is more about politics and bullying than any thing else."

          Icon says it all

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

          US corps weren’t forced to move their labour to China.

    2. MiguelC Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

      I can't understand if you're criticizing the US stance or trying to support it.

      Because that's exactly what the US want, for US entities to follow US law, and for Chinese entities (or only Huawei?) not to follow Chinese law. And as a bonus, every other entity around the world must also follow US law. Very proportionate and sensible, isn't it?

    3. Nick Kew

      Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

      The IEEE has long been accepted by the international community. Being subject to US law only becomes a problem when US law is abused. But the more that happens, the more the world will have to look elsewhere.

      Not that it's actually US law as in "rule of law". Tantrump set that aside with the magic invocation "national emergency".

    4. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Soo, a US-based corporation is subject to US law

      The IEEE in its role as a standards coordinator is not trading with anyone. I suppose someone that doesn't understand why it exists might assume that as a publisher that owns the copyright of the resulting standards its got something to sell but in reality its just an umbrella organization acting as proxy for its various industry members. Since most of these members will be overseas corporations its not a big deal to move the work to an alternative, more reliable, organization.

      (Its worth reminding ourselves why crystallographic standards post DES are not developed or standardized in the US.)

  2. td0s

    Yay more standards

    How long until we have a set of standards per continent? Won't that be fun.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Yay more standards

      Nah. What is more likely is that the USA is going to be replaced by another entity, say, the EU, who will guarantee academic freedom and foster intellectual endeavors.

      As the US is stripping itself of all credibility in more and more domains, it will be shunned and ignored until nothing of importance happens behind its borders walls any more except school shootings.

      When all international standards are managed in a proper international environment, the world will be a better place.

      And at that point, if the USA doesn't want to comply with international standards, it can go twiddle its inbred sister in the trailer.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Yay more standards

        Thinking of a nation that is likely to be around for the long run, doesn't respond to political pressure at home or abroad and never changes it's policies whatever the public demand

        Should the Vatican by the new home for both ICANN and the IEEE ?

        1. FlossyThePig

          Re: Yay more standards

          Should the Vatican by the new home for both ICANN and the IEEE

          Don't they write a lot of things in Latin?

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Yay more standards

            Don't they write a lot of things in Latin?

            Ok so it's a legacy language but at least the environment is stable you don't need to rewrite everything in the latest fashionable slang every millennia

            1. Muppet Boss
              Devil

              Re: Yay more standards

              Their racks are known to fit almost every server too!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Yay more standards

            Apparently they keep Latin up to date with new words so they can, for instance, write about evolutionary biology and cosmology. As that puts them some way ahead of the redder part of the US, perhaps they should indeed get the job.

        2. Wim Ton

          Re: Yay more standards

          How about Switzerland? They are home to some international organizations already.

      2. DontFeedTheTrolls
        Pint

        Re: Yay more standards

        Have a pint just for so many jibes at the Merkins

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Yay more standards

          > Have a pint just for so many jibes at the Merkins

          So, "DontFeedTheTrolls", but plying them with beer is ok? :-)

          1. Martin-73 Silver badge

            Re: Yay more standards

            A person who makes jibes against the merkins is not a troll, but an astute political commentator, these days

      3. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: Yay more standards

        "As the US is stripping itself of all credibility in more and more domains, it will be shunned and ignored until nothing of importance happens behind its borders walls any more except school shootings."

        And nothing of value was lost.

        All the good stuff America used to do was imported germans, chinese and japanese anyway.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Yay more standards

          There's only four three things we do better than anyone else:

          music

          movies

          microcode (software)

          high-speed pizza delivery

          1. Mark Exclamation

            Re: Yay more standards

            And I would question music.

            1. Andy The Hat Silver badge

              Re: Yay more standards

              ... and movies ... they need a new Hollywood sign "Originality Died Here".

      4. Insert sadsack pun here Silver badge

        Re: Yay more standards

        "another entity, say, the EU, who will guarantee academic freedom and foster intellectual endeavors."

        How's academic freedom doing in our sister states like Poland, where it's a criminal offence to contradict the government's position that "Poles did nothing wrong in WW2", or Hungary, which recently shut down the Central European University for getting too uppity? Or even here in the UK, where people like Peter Hitchins (who's certainly a disagreeable windbag, but hardly a Nazi) gets no-platformed at universities?

    2. GnuTzu
      Meh

      Re: Yay more standards -- Fork The Standard

      It's a reasonable prediction. Will it be fun-ctional? well, I think it's just going to be a geographical divide that will affect manufactures than anyone else. But, I'm just guessing.

  3. 2Blockchainz

    Redacted from Muller repoet

    Putin: Comrade, I bet you there is no way that a genocidal, colonialist, secretive, nationalist country like the Peoples Republic of China could be made sympathetic!

    Trump: Hold my vodka.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

      Conclusion: Russia interfered with the US election because they believed Trump would be the best candidate to weaken US power.

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: they believed Trump would ... weaken US power.

        Well duh! No, they got him in to "make America great again".

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

        Conclusion: The Onion interfered with the US election because they believed Trump would be the best candidate to saterise.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

          The Onion didn't realise that with President Trump, reality outdid satire.

    2. Insert sadsack pun here Silver badge

      Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

      "Trump: Hold my vodka."

      Unlikely. Trump doesn't drink (or smoke). Many other vices, though...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

        goodie-two, goodie-two goodie-goodie two shoes.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: goodie-two, goodie-two goodie-goodie two shoes.

          Must be something inside.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: goodie-two, goodie-two goodie-goodie two shoes.

            I might have known someone would follow with a subtle inuendo...

      2. Andy The Hat Silver badge

        Re: Redacted from Muller repoet

        I always thought he did smoke - perhaps it's because he looks smoked?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    3GPP Meetings in the US this summer

    And Huawei is amongst the groups... Should be interesting.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: 3GPP Meetings in the US this summer

      A bit late to change venue now, but what are the odds the next occasion will be outside of the USA?

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: 3GPP Meetings in the US this summer

        >A bit late to change venue now, but what are the odds the next occasion will be outside of the USA?

        Given the way it works, that is practically a certainty. The question is whether they vote and adopt a resolution to cease holding meetings in the US due to both the US's current actions and to safeguard their non-US members who may run the risk of their delegates being arrested etc. if they step foot on US/Canadian soil.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Remember...

    in the PRC it's Huawei or the Huawei.

  6. karlkarl Silver badge

    Just more chimpanzees flinging their own poop at one another.

    Nothing to see here, move along! XD

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Poop is flying all over the world and will hit the fan.

      Go on moving on to try avoid the poop.

  7. AndyFl

    Patent fights

    I wonder if Huawei can so the same sort of thing as Qualcomm for 5G essential patents - insist on licences paying Huawei for a wider patent portfolio and buying other products"

    "Oh, you can't do business with us because of the blacklisting in your country? Then, sorry you can't use our standards essential 5G set of patents which the rest of the world are happy and able to use".

    I'm sure that this would cause a fairly quick waver from the Department of Commerce or whoever controls the entity list, but if Huawei tagged a lot of other things onto the package it could be quite complex to navigate and would slow down US 5G manufacturers.

    Andy

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Patent fights

      Right question and worth reviewing if Huawei make any such claims but you need to check the IPR policy of the relevant standards body for SEPs to work out how much wriggle room they have. Some , possibly a lot, but likely restricted by some form of RAND provision.

  8. johnnymotel

    Huawei phones

    Can someone explain why using a Huawei/Honor phone presents a security risk to the US? It just seems spiteful on these phone users worldwide to bork them from updates, Maps and Search.

    So long as the phone is not used by US Gov employees, how can a Huawei phone spy on the government or cripple the infrastructure.

    Maybe there is something I am missing.

    1. A random security guy

      Re: Huawei phones

      Tracking all the activities of 320M people at a microscopic level (apps, cameras, videos, motion, location, messages,, emails) would endanger the US. 320M is not a large number from a computational perspective. And remember, all the information is available to the Chinese govt. As Cambridge Analytica clearly showed, just Facebook profiles are sufficient to manipulate large populations. I can bet the Chinese govt. would spend a 100B to be able to manipulate the US. Which is why Huawei can undercut all the competition.

      The Chinese have obliterated Tiananmen from the working memories of their people. They have been ruthless about brainwashing their Uighiar populations. They will have fun manipulating our MAGA supporters.

      1. DrBed
        Trollface

        Re: Huawei phones

        I can bet the Chinese govt. would spend a 100B to be able to manipulate the US. Which is why Huawei can undercut all the competition.

        But... but Huawei phones are not present at US market anyway!

        Putin didn't have to spent 100B, nor to develop Huawei - he only needs one creature in charge - Trump. Correct me if I am wrong, Putin is not (represent of) Chinese.

        New taxes for Mexico: this is supposed to hurt China too, because NAFTA/USMCA means "free-trade alliance" of China's big trade partners? What I'm missing?

      2. Trollslayer

        Re: Huawei phones

        Google does all the tracking.

        Globally.

      3. johnnymotel

        Re: Huawei phones

        doesn't google do that already?

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