back to article Prepare yourselves for Windows 10 May-hem. Or is it June, no, July?

The Windows 10 May 2019 Update is inbound, but not before it has spent a bit more time in the hands of testers excluded from the disastrous October 2018 Update. Scared looking office consultant hides under desk Microsoft reckons the accursed Windows 10 October 2018 Update is finally fit for business READ MORE Microsoft is …

  1. 0laf Silver badge
    Pirate

    Throw the bones

    It's as good a way as any to tll how much trouble this is going to be.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Microsoft should think again - we don't need your outdated 'persuasive approach', it's 2019.

      Needs to be said again. The people at Microsoft deciding on this type of policy, have all the hallmarks of someone that carries out domestic abuse.

      Do they take their work home or vice versa?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Microsoft should think again - we don't need your outdated 'persuasive approach', it's 2019.

        "Do they take their work home or vice versa?"

        Not sure what you mean about the 'vice versa' unless they're living in the office...

        from the article: "employees encouraged to put the code on their own personal devices. We'd have to admit to a certain amount of surprise that this wasn't the norm."

        Taking their work home would, in fact, be a VERY good idea!

        Those who produce the OS _ABSOLUTELY_ should be USING the thing!!! on a DAILY basis!!!

        This reminds me of something that happened with me, long ago...

        While the company was downsizing and re-organizing, the material control department (for which I was doing custom IT kinds of things) consolidated into the corporate materials department, and moved to a different part of the building. The building next door, slightly downhill on a terraced landscape, was where the minicomputer (with ginormous laser printer) was. Departments had been consolidated, and there was a massive pile of computer output generated every week. And it suddenly became MY duty to go get it all from the other building. Well, after bringing SEVERAL dollies' worth of boxes of paper back on a Monday, uphill even, guess what happened? I did an in-depth review of who needed what report. I canceled half of them (at least one was using up a box of paper on its own, every week), modified several more (to generate less paper), and significantly reduced the computer work load in the process. The IT manager _LOVED_ me after that, and even had one of her guys bring the reports for us, which was now only half-a-dolly's worth (and not so bad, now). I think the reason I had to do it was because it was a big PITA for the operations staff to deliver them all... and I still wonder if that was all done on purpose? [yeah just tell XXXX to do it, see how long things go before he fixes things - 2 days]

        NOW - apply that same kind of logic to Win-10-nic - *MAKE* the Micro-shaft employees that are responsible for that piece-o-something to DAILY USE IT, and see just how long those irritations last...

        well, I can *ONLY* hope I guess!

        1. Kiwi
          Trollface

          Re: Microsoft should think again - we don't need your outdated 'persuasive approach', it's 2019.

          Those who produce the OS _ABSOLUTELY_ should be USING the thing!!! on a DAILY basis!!!

          You truly are a vengeful, sadistic person aren't you Bob?

          Even I wouldn't wouldn't wish that sort of cruelty on the lowest of the low, not even MS management!

          (Well, maybe C* level.....)

        2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

          Re: on a DAILY basis!!!

          Having had to deal with a 32Gb Fatberg (aka PST) last week I think DAILY is a bit too stringent, I suggest SPORADIC is somewhat less onerous for those of you using Outlook.

          N.B. to JJC: a specifc rant about MSFT.

  2. LDS Silver badge
    Devil

    Windows Brexit Edition?

    Same deployment process....

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Windows Brexit Edition?

      And the same benefits too - great new features for free with an easy installation that will have no issues at all - think of the money that you will save and look forward to the new systems ability to exclude any resident applications that it doesn't like.

      1. BrownishMonstr Bronze badge

        Re: Windows Brexit Edition?

        Is that the Windows as a service one? You pay a monthly fee but still won't get it for another 24 months, or maybe 6, or maybe 30.

        Perhaps the chap who worked on the Windows progress ETA is on the brexit team.

  3. notamole

    This is Microsoft

    They'll probably still manage to do something stupid like mandate the update for everyone on day 1.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is Microsoft

      And that's the problem. Instead of just offering the free upgrade to all users of 7, 8 & 8.1 when 10 was first released, they also tried to force-feed it to as many people as possible by installing GWX and making it nigh on impossible to avoid unless you knew what to do to mitigate against it. And since then the shoddy monthly Patch Tuesdays and woefully bad six monthly 'updates' seem to get worse as time goes on.

      Not one thing I have seen about Windows 10 makes it look even a viable alternative to Windows 7.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Re: This is Microsoft

      "something stupid like mandate the update for everyone on day 1"

      They _*DEFINITELY*_ exhibit the behavior of a top-down dictatorial government, don't they?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "in the hands of testers"

    Erm, sorry, you may have meant the members of the insider program I think ;)

    1. WatAWorld

      Re: "in the hands of testers"

      "in the hands of testers"

      Erm, sorry, you may have meant the members of the insider program I think ;)

      We wish they only did their testing on members of the insider program. I pray that one day, one bright and sunny day, that wish will come true.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whoopee do, it's like telling someone they are going to get herpes.

    MS these massive updates every six months are bloated, time consuming, bandwidth consuming and above all unnecessary. This is not a sane and reasonable process.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      I suspect that the biggest issue is that each update is applied to systems that may, or may not, have a myriad of prior updates and operating systems floating around and the Windows 10 update process tries to be safe but is unable to clean up the disk partitions that it's created in the past and other operating systems/applications have created.

      1. aqk
        Windows

        I asked Cortana about this. Her reply was "No".

  6. LenG

    Institutional stupidity

    " and Microsoft intends to chow down on its own dog food with employees encouraged to put the code on their own personal devices. We'd have to admit to a certain amount of surprise that this wasn't the norm."

    Seems to indicate that the troops have some sense and the stupidity is concentrated in the management tiers. Well, no surprise there then.

  7. mark l 2 Silver badge

    I think I will stick with marking my internet connection as metered so that Windows 10 will only install updates when I manually choose to.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      " I will stick with marking my internet connection as metered"

      That doesn't seem to be possible within a VM or with a wired connection... has that changed at all?

    2. CountCadaver Bronze badge

      there's a GPO that allows you to nobble automatic updates

      Computer configuration

      Administrative templates

      Windows Components

      Windows update

      Configure automatic updates

      Disable

      Quote: "If the status for this policy is set to Disabled, any updates that are available on Windows Update must be downloaded and installed manually. To do this, search for Windows Update using Start."

      Seems a goer, depending on how truthful MS are being.....

      Also disabled the automatic reboots after it decided to do one in the midst of a render, 10 hours render time down the drain as the render program didn't shut down cleanly due to windows rebooting itself...

      Seriously wondering why I didn't just sitck with 7, more problems than I can count with 10 and MS seems to invent new ones weekly...

  8. PhilipN Silver badge

    Surprised this wasn’t the norm

    Yup pre-testing testing. Easy and effective.*

    Engineering mate of mine used to help build or buy fancy business-orientated consumer devices (e.g. one of the earliest standalone internet radios) for his boss’s far-flung corporate empire. He’d get a handful of them and fling one at his secretary, one at the boss’s grandma, the cook etc. etc. with the request that they play with it and rate it as Crap or Cloud 9 on a scale of 1 to 10 and why. Only when the first samples passed this test would he even bother moving to the next step.

    *Also free, and nobody got fired if the consensus was “crap”.

  9. elgarak1

    It seems to me that the sheer amount of managing necessary for those huge numbers of release cycles/rings does much more harm than good, as far as quality of software is concerned.

    1. Kiwi
      Coat

      It seems to me that the sheer amount of managing necessary for those huge numbers of release cycles/rings does much more harm than good, as far as quality of software is concerned.

      I think you'll find that it's MS's management that does more harm than good as far as s/ware quality is concerned! :)

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eek!!! 1809 was coming down the pipe last night

    (certainly explains why the available drive space turned red as it dipped below 10%... nearly had to delete my pron stash!)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      (certainly explains why the available drive space turned red as it dipped below 10%... nearly had to delete my pron stash!)

      Methinks I'd be deleting MSWindows first...

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        At work 1809 was available for a few hours, and then removed again, apparently it renders the machine even more unusable....

        TBH: I'm a long time Linux user, no Windows machine at home for the past 20 years or so, and as long as I have my tools I can work reasonably well under windows 10. I am currently learning the Windows keyboard shortcuts so I can stop being a mouse jockey. The only thing (almost...) I miss is the mouse-mark-middle-button-to-insert.

      2. aqk

        Methinks I'd be deleting MSWindows first...

        Didn't you say this in 2011? And trusted that everyone would no doubt be on Linux by 2014?

        Me? I am still awaiting delivery of my 2008 Hydrogen-powered BMW, which I ordered in 2006.

        1. WatAWorld

          Linux, the operating so good they have trouble giving it away for free.

          Seriously, Linux people need to look long and hard at why we aren't all running Linux if it is technically so great and easy to use.

          Knocking the competition at every chance just is not a viable marketing plan. Figure out what is wrong with your marketing and fix it.

          1. The Central Scrutinizer

            Hmm, a complete misunderstanding of the Linux ecosystem on display here.

            Linux is vastly technically superior to Windows. Everyone does use it, actually. They just don't know it. You know, all those Linux servers worldwide that serve up billions of web pages every day?

            And...

            An operating system that can run for literally years without re-booting.

            No forced upgrades shoved down your throat.

            An OS that just gets the fsck out of your way and lets you get stuff done.

            As a former Windows user, I'm a truckload happier using Linux these days than I ever was using MS stuff.

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

          3. Teiwaz Silver badge

            Linux, the operating so good they have trouble giving it away for free.

            I'm going to put it down to similar mentality to vaccines, climate change etc.

            Granted, though, 'Linux wasn't ready for mainstream desktop use until well after Windows had achieved a certain hegemony, and once the weight of popular applications was firmly in the Windows side, it's been at a disadvantage.

            But mostly, because, with the cost reduced for bulk OEM purchases, Windows IS given away for free, and has been aggressively marketed for decades.

            Now that there's been a shift to online apps, there's becoming less and less reason to find yourself stuck on Windows.

            Knocking the competition at every chance just is not a viable marketing plan.

            When the bread on the shelf is barely fit to consume, it's only proper to remind shoppers it's not the the only product on offer.

          4. Kiwi

            Seriously, Linux people need to look long and hard at why we aren't all running Linux if it is technically so great and easy to use.

            But you are running it. Much of the internet infrastructure, a good chance your TV runs it. Unless you're one of the few Winphone or non-smart-phone users, your phone runs it (no idea if IOS is based on it or not), your car may well run it (if not, some BSD variant is almost a certainty unless your car is as ancient as mine). Hell, in this day and age there's a good chance your light bulbs run it!

            You might not use it on your desktop, but there's a damned good chance most of the things you use daily do :)

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Linux

          'no alternative' = 'who cares about quality'

          On a related note...

          recently I had a bit of insight into the people who are (currently) pushing the hardest for the development of the Wine project, which most definitely has the potential of providing an alternative to Win-10-nic.

          However, it's WORSE than 1809, in my opinion. My experience attempting to install DevStudio 2010, even following the instructions for the various hacks, and using 3 different versions (including 4.4's bleeding edge development version) was _WORSE_ than a dismal failure. and uninstalling didn't even work [I had to delete the tree and manually remove desktop menu items under 'Wine'].

          But, without going into details, the people running the show appear to be clueless as to the _kinds_ of people that could get Wine up to speed, specifically PAID developers. Apparently they have no shortage of a budget, but their selection process is (quite literally) PICKING THE WRONG PEOPLE. They need a "get it done" attitude, and NOT a "cool beans" + "academia" attitude...

          This is where Micro-shaft has significant advantage over open source projects. Being a for-profit company, they focus on "get it done" and profitability, though their shortcomings of NOT paying for testers is blatantly showing its ugly head these days... [I blame their management for NOT focusing on quality, above all else]

          I think the only way the Wine project could POSSIBLY compete with windows is if *I* were running it... but I need money to live on in order for THAT to happen, otherwise no time to devote to it.

          1. Kiwi
            Linux

            Re: 'no alternative' = 'who cares about quality'

            recently I had a bit of insight into the people who are (currently) pushing the hardest for the development of the Wine project, which most definitely has the potential of providing an alternative to Win-10-nic.

            I( have heard (probably here) that Steam is porting WINE.

            Maybe there is hope... :)

            1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

              Re: Steam is porting WINE

              Is? Or are they mulling the idea of adding a touch of spice to I.T.?

              1. Kiwi
                Pint

                Re: Steam is porting WINE

                Is? Or are they mulling the idea of adding a touch of spice to I.T.?

                I was going to comment about how I'd only heard mention somewhere, perhaps here..

                Then I saw what you did. Very well done, and I wish I had more votes and booze to give! :)

          2. oldcoder

            Re: 'no alternative' = 'who cares about quality'

            "they focus on "get it done" and profitability"

            Leave out the "get it done" part.

            What you are left with is the buggy, incomplete, and poorly "get it done" ....

            And MS gets the "profitability".

            1. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Unhappy

              Re: 'no alternative' = 'who cares about quality'

              well, nowadays I'd have to agree with ignoring the "get it done" part, considering 1809 among other things...

              The industry, unfortunately, is apparently in the process of becoming dominated by arrogant, elitist, "academic" types. 'Academic arrogance' is a thing now. Specifically, it is those who *FEEL* as if a degree is required in order to engineer software, which is really more of an ART than a science. Seriously, once you're beyond the basic programming and structure and math classes, it's a matter of having talent or lacking it.

              conducting "programming tests" that focus on 'academics' rather than 'ability to program' is a part of this.

              Unless, of course, you're "one of them". if you wonder why the WINE project is in the state it is in, it is [in my view] because of _THIS_ sort of thing. And I am not convinced that the STEAM people being behind a new WINE port would in any way help it. It's more of a management-style problem.

              I can't say it's bad to see more windows games playable on Linux. I just fear that WINE (or a fork of it) will continue being MIS-managed in the same *kinds* of ways, which [in my opinion] boil down to a) academic arrogance, b) focusing on the wrong things, and c) not actually getting things done in a timely manner.

              The past predicting piss poor performance. And the Windows 7 'end of life' window is NEXT YEAR...

    2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: Eek!!! 1809... nearly had to delete my pron stash

      There is a common denominator there: Both abet self abuse.

  11. SVV

    Microsoft intends to chow down on its own dog food

    Sadly they even take the joy from this trusty old metaphor, as the prospect of installing it is genuinely about as appetising as having to actually eat dog food.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Microsoft intends to chow down on its own dog food

      well, considering how dogs WILLINGLY eat their own vomit... and their own poo...

  12. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Can I interest in a bridge?

    I will believe Slurp has figured out Bloat 10's churning is idiotic when they do several steps. First, do what Ubuntu does, everyone has the option to run an LTS release that comes out every 2 years and supported for at least 5 years. If the user wants to be on the bleeding edge, the user can use the semiannual releases. Second fix the code so that applications are so deeply tied to the OS that updating the application necessitates an OS update (looking at Imbecile Explorer as an example). Third, do QA work internally and if the test releases are available the are clearly marked 'Alpha', 'Beta', and 'Release Candidate'. Fourth, make the key difference between the home version and enterprise version a set of add on applications that enterprise users would be interested in.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Can I interest in a bridge?

      First, do what Ubuntu does, everyone has the option to run an LTS release that comes out every 2 years and supported for at least 5 years.

      Or even better IMHO, do what CentOS does and makes the support last 10 years (or as long as RHEL as it is build from their sources).

      Either way provides a totally different level of stability over Windows 10. And no nagware about licenses and updates

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Can I interest in a bridge?

        I picked 5 years as sort of a minimum period that seems reasonable. Longer periods might call for an adjustment of the intervals between LTS versions. But I have nothing against a 42 month LTS release cycle with 10 year support or 3 year cycle with 8 years support for example or other reasonable release cycles and support periods. To me its not the major issue but an issue of give me a reasonable period were the user does not need to worry about version updates for several years.

  13. Andy A

    Sticking with 1903 for the name?

    I wonder how many times the code contains

    if WindowsVersionNumber = 1903 then....

    1. nportalski
      Coat

      Well, there's your first problem right there....

      if (WindowsVersionNumber == 1903) {

      Or, for the very picky amongst you...

      if (1903 == WindowsVersionNumber) {

      Oh, you've seen someone you simply must talk to you say? Leaving me on my own in the corner.....

  14. Howard Hanek
    Unhappy

    'Features'

    Right. Like vultures are a 'feature' of the African Serengetti Plain. They at least clean up after themselves.

    1. CountCadaver Bronze badge

      Re: 'Features'

      Vultures are cool creatures and a crucial part of the ecosystem, dealing with dead carcasses and are evolved very well for their role. Its just our victorian attitude about "tampering with the dead" being "sinful", "grotesque" and "demonic" that leads to the view of vultures as being "evil" creatures.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

    All my systems started at Windows 7.... upgraded for free to Windows 10 Except on new computers, I literally haven't paid for Windows in over 10 years, yet I receive updates. For most people, its the best option (my opinion). Yes, I have had stuck updates, but as long as I am able to use my system, and as long as their firewall/virus protection does a reasonable job of keeping viruses off my computers (and as long as folks on said computers stay off sketchy sites and watch what they download or click), then it does a reasonable job of running year in and year out.... for no additional cost to me. I am not complaining.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: for no additional cost to me

      There is a hidden cost. All that lovely data that your PC/Laptop sends to Microsoft.

      Who really knows what is in it and who they sell it too eh?

      Then there is the unease you get in your stomach as you wait to see if it is your turn to have a system that is borked after the application of an update.

      My high Blood Pressure problems went away once I'd stopped working with Windows. No more pills is good enough for me to never ever go back to windows again.

    2. N2 Silver badge

      Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

      Well,

      I suppose they have one satified customer.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

      Windows 10 is not availible for free, only if you pay or if you have already given M$ money for the previous OS

      Most linux Distributions are given free with free updates/security fixes and they do it as a matter of pride rather than to fix the spyware they installed on your machine on the last update.

      Firewall/AV and IT competent users, if your situation was really the norm then companies would not need to employ so many support staff. You can add on the wages of all those " windows experts" plus associated managers to the actual cost of going the M$ route.

      So if the OS costs $x then the onsite support is going to be at least 10x per month before you even start talking about M$ fail employee downtime.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

        I have had some really odd issues with the company supplied Windows laptop that cost me about 4 hours of downtime trying get it work right recently; a very frustrated and unhappy camper. One day Windows updates was causing computers to hang prompting numerous calls to the support desk, enough that the support desk had instructions on how to reboot the laptops. So if each of these updates takes about 15 minutes to resolve with a reboot, etc. that can add up to significant lost production as people are fighting their kit.

        1. WatAWorld

          Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

          I have had some really odd issues with the company supplied Windows laptop that cost me about 4 hours of downtime trying get it work right recently;

          Compare that unexpected downtime to the routing time required to install or update Linux and the add-ons your require to it to make it useful.

          Or the typical impossibility of installing MacOS.

          Yes, Windows is not totally free, but:

          1. The data you send MS from Windows itself is not exploited to enhance advertising revenue like the data sent to Google from Android is.

          2. The person-hours spent servicing it is not more, or much more, than the hours spent servicing a Linux system with a similar fleshed out add-ons.

          3. You aren't stuck with old hardware on your new system's day one like you are with MacOS.

          However, I really do wish the Linux folks would look at why their consumer and SOHO market share is so dismal. How much work could it really require to pass Windows??? Instead they spend their time complaining about how all their potential customers are idiots for running a competitor's product. They're stuck in a losing strategy. Plus their insulting the very people they want as customers.

          1. Anonymal coward

            Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

            "Or the typical impossibility of installing MacOS."

            Nope, see https://www.tonymacx86.com/

            "You aren't stuck with old hardware on your new system's day one like you are with MacOS."

            Nope, see https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-hackintosh-the-ultimate-buyers-guide/

            And yes, I've tried this and it works. I used one such system for 18 months, for everything including Win 7 under Parallels.

          2. Updraft102

            Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

            1. The data you send MS from Windows itself is not exploited to enhance advertising revenue like the data sent to Google from Android is.

            How about the way MS took out the ability to have a local-only Cortana search, so even if you want to do just a search of your local machine, it's going out to Bing anyway? It's taking your private local search data and sending it to their search engine that people pay them to put sponsored links into. Bing exists to bring MS advertising revenue, and driving more traffic to Bing is using that data sent from Windows itself to enhance that advertising revenue.

            Not only that, but firing the QA department and conscripting end users into the role by forcing telemetry (the beta test data) and updates (to make sure the testers test what MS wants them to) is certainly enhancing their revenue, by means of 'a penny saved is a penny earned'. Only they save a lot more than pennies letting end users do the beta testing for software they pay for!

            MS is still trying to get the holdouts into the Windows 10 corral. They're still being nice. Once they get 80% market share for Windows 10, wait and see how nice they are then. They've already treated their own users like punching bags for three and a half straight years, and that's them being nice. Do I trust MS to not exploit that stolen data the same way Google does once it's "No More Mr. Nice Guy" time? I do not.

            However, I really do wish the Linux folks would look at why their consumer and SOHO market share is so dismal. How much work could it really require to pass Windows???

            Oh, I don't know about that. Linux has 100% market share on my machines... can't get any better than that!

            Seriously though: You really ask how much work would it take for a decentralized open source product with no marketing department to surpass an ethically-challenged monopolist that has spent more than 20 years entrenching itself by backstabbing, buying out, destroying, or FUDding their competition?

            Don't forget that Microsoft was the Google of the 90s and 2000s. If you came up with a better search algorithm than Google today, how much effort do you think it would take for you to surpass Google?

            Windows prior to the Win2k/XP era hadn't been designed with even the slightest thought toward making it secure. Win 9x crashed if you looked at it funny. Reinstalling Windows became a regular part of maintenance.

            Windows was never good in any of those years (those years being roughly until Win2k in 2000). It was merely good enough. It was during those years that MS grew into a giant, by selling a pretty crappy excuse for an OS to a lot of people. If Apple had not decided on sky high prices and sometimes weird design decisions, they may have mounted a serious challenge to MS when they still had the chance, but the single-source Apple hardware with its single-source Apple OS had no competition within its platform, while "clones" forced prices sharply downward on the x86 side. High-priced IBM was itself forced out of the market it had created.

            Then 2k rolled around, intended to be the "Pro" version of the disastrous "Consumer" ME. Win 2k is still a nostalgic favorite, though, and it remains my high water mark for a MS user interface. XP was closely related to 2k, but with a goofy color scheme, but that could be removed in seconds (and it was on all of the many machines I set up with XP over the years). I used XP for more than a decade and was generally quite pleased with it.

            Vista, of course, was a disaster, but not because of its UI, which is very similar to the 7 UI, which was itself mostly ok, but since I'm a stickler for a good UI, I still wasn't happy with it without aftermarket modifications. Fortunately, there were many available, and it was almost as good as 2k/XP, suitably modified with Classic Shell and other similar things.

            Win 8, of course, was a disaster. It was the first Windows OS to completely dispense with the idea of trying to give the users what the users want/need in favor of what MS wanted them to have to promote their own agenda. It failed in the marketplace, and deservedly so. Still, it was evolving in the right direction... 8.1 fixed several of the most hated bits of 8, and the 8.2 release was to be even better, bringing back Aero glass and a Win 7 start menu, and perhaps even getting its own desktop SKU to differentiate it from the tablet version, as it should have had all along.

            And then came SatNad, and 8.2 "Threshold" became Windows 10.

            Until Windows 10, I wasn't motivated to try Linux in a serious way. I knew it was there, and I'd tried it and found it quite usable during the XP years. I just didn't have any motivation to pursue it... Windows, again, was good enough. Vista wasn't, but 7 was, mostly. Win 8 wasn't, but everyone thought it would be just like with ME and Vista... wait a bit and the next one will fix all the things wrong with it.

            That never happened. Windows 10 was so much worse than 8 that I could not really remember why I had hated 8 so much... seeing how bad 10 was actually motivated me to upgrade from 7 to 8.1, which was pretty good when modified with Classic Shell and other programs like that which I was already using in Windows 7 anyway.

            Windows has been "good enough" from 3.0 (when I first used it) to ME, and it was decent from 2k through 7. By the time 10 came out, Windows had been entrenched on the mainstream desktop for 20 years, and that was the first time I was not prepared to go where Microsoft wanted me to go today. Windows 10 is unfit for purpose for many Windows users, and Linux has never been more fit for purpose (even with the unpopular systemd).

            That realization doesn't undo 20 plus years of Microsoft entrenching itself. I was part of that; I supported MS for all that time and for years prior to that. If you consider that the Commodore 64 had Microsoft BASIC that formed the OS, such that it was, I'd already been using MS operating systems for about a decade before Windows 10 arrived. I've paid for many Windows licenses over the years. I helped Microsoft get big enough to force Windows 10 on us now.

            What can I say? Windows had always been "good enough." Now it's not, and it's too late for me and millions of others to take back all of those purchased Windows licenses that made them into a juggernaut. It was the best available option at the time for me, with the information I had at that point, each time I bought a Windows license. If I could have seen the future, I may certainly have gotten off of the bus a little earlier, but it would not have mattered unless the majority of others came with me... and why would they, if Windows was "good enough"?

            So, here I sit, typing this from Linux. It works for me, and with the only viable versions of Windows coming to an end in the next few years, I don't really have much choice. Windows 10 doesn't even exist as one of the options. It is not a serious OS and is not worthy of consideration.

            It doesn't concern me that Linux only has 2% desktop market share other than that software makers see that and often do not think it is worth the development costs to write Linux versions of their products. It's not all about sales revenue, though: Having Linux as a viable alternative keeps Microsoft from being able to dictate their own terms unilaterally. MS would not be pushing WaaS and all of the other garbage in Windows 10 if users felt as if they had a viable alternative.

            Gaming is one area where Windows is often cited as a must-have, and there's no one bigger in gaming than Steam. They've done more to make Linux a viable gaming platform than any other entity, and they're not doing it out of altruism or any lofty ideas about how software should be free, since theirs isn't. They're doing it to protect their ability to make money. If MS deprecates Win32 and pushes everything into UWP, which they could just happen to be the single-source distributor for, it would leave Steam and other software marketplaces irrelevant.

            I don't think for a moment that MS would not do this if they were able. MS can only do this as long as people feel trapped. Many, many people do. If there's even a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel, Microsoft's position is significantly weakened, and that is good for every Windows user, and everyone else besides MS itself.

    4. Col_Panek

      Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

      Windows is only free if your time is worth nothing.

    5. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: Such vitriol for something that costs virtually nothing...

      so many things wrong... can't downvote enough

  16. vmistery

    My home PC hasn’t even offered me the much feared 1809 yet so they can’t be in too much of a hurry to bring everyone up to date. Just about to install it via the update assistant because it’s Friday and what else am I meant to do?

    1. WatAWorld

      My home PC hasn’t even offered me the much feared 1809 yet so they can’t be in too much of a hurry to bring everyone up to date. Just about to install it via the update assistant because it’s Friday and what else am I meant to do?

      OMG, no!!!

      Don't ever be in a rush to apply an update you do not really really need to do something.

      If the update is being delayed it is probably because Windows Update detected an incompatibility. Wait until the update is offered.

      If you are really getting desperate, you start googling with search terms like 1809 and the version of your CPU, the version of your video card, any unusual software you have. Try to see what the specific issue is and go from there.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        That's good advice and no response from vmistery. That doesn't mean anything I know, but it'd be funny if vmistery's computer was borked by the 1809 update, well a little funny.

  17. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    "aging"? I'm only *just* finished doing Windows 7 roll-outs and only just started seeing job adverts for Windows 10 roll-out engineers.

  18. earl grey
    Mushroom

    i think you meant anus horribilis

    Yes, that would be MS arseholes.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm puzzled.

    [quote]At that point, Windows Update will have a crack at automatically initiating a feature update.[/quote]

    Does that mean that on a hardware that at some point in time becomes unsupported by Microsoft standards, the update will keep pounding at it until it is knocked down for good ? Can't I retain my last working version of Windows and live with it ?

    1. georgezilla

      Re: I'm puzzled.

      You: " Can't I retain my last working version of Windows and live with it ? "

      Microsoft: "Not just no, but HELL NO!"

    2. WatAWorld

      Re: I'm puzzled.

      Can't I retain my last working version of Windows and live with it ?

      Yes that what you do. You just keep running the last version that works.

      The problems with that are:

      1. That last working version will not receive security updates. So as time goes by it eventually becomes more likely to get hacked over the web.

      2. The people who make the software you run under your Windows (accounting, CAD, whatever) will eventually stop supporting your old version of Windows.

      3. MS is not the only company that does support 15 y/o hardware.

      The electronics are only going to run for so long anyways. Once your CPU is 15 years old, and your chipset is 15 years old, your HDD is 15 years old, the hard is going to conk out anyways.

  20. WatAWorld

    Greatly appreciate it if people could refrain from trying to rush the job

    Greatly appreciate it if people (i.e. journalists and hobbyists) could refrain from trying to rush the Windows 10 2019H1 update.

    The mass of us have harassed the heck out of MS and called for heads to roll over their recent poorly developed, poorly tested, rushed and botched updates.

    This time they're at least trying to do the job properly.

    Let's not confuse them. It matters not at all if their update comes in May, June or July this year -- or even May, June or July next year. Most of the useful changes are probably invisible and behind the scenes internal changes.

    The changes visible to the users will probably be degradations to UIs, to make them harder for older eyes and for the differently abled to see. And they laters those land the better.

    So please, please, please, do not say anything to MS that might make them think they should hurry up and go faster.

    Reliability is many dozens of times more important that what month, year, or epoch the update lands in.

    Cheers.

    (If they botch another one, the entire upper 8 ranks of MS management should be seconded to work in Beijing during smog season for 10 years, at Chinese pay rates.)

  21. ecofeco Silver badge

    Mayhem

    I will be very surprised if this goes without a hitch.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mayhem

      If you spend any time trying to maintain your own applications written using the Microsoft Visual Studio ecosystem then it's blindingly obvious why all the "New Features" introduced in each Windows update cause problems. Bugs aren't fixed, they are just depreciated and new code is presented ... causing new issues and bloat.

      An application that we wrote back in 1996 can still be maintained with VS2019, but while the original app was 146kb, the latest build - with no new features or code changes other than syntax updates and minor bug fixes - is now 5.3mb.

  22. Craig 2

    Just the fact that Microsoft has to insist it's own employees install the update shows the new paradigm for Windows. They should WANT to install updates for the increased speed, security and functionality. Instead, users fear each update in case it bricks the device, loses their data or removes functionality.

  23. Deimos

    My last windows device

    Is a lonely win 10 laptop that only exists to run my favourite vintage games.

    It has no internet connection, so it has never updated and mucked up my carefully setup options.

    Everything else is tablet based, so the Apple devices get updated but never automatically.

    Our Android tablets might well upgrade but I don’t care as they don’t last that long.

    I also use an Xbox one X as a hd blu ray player, it was updated once to play brand new disks that appear to have

    An updated version of the blu ray standard.

    In other words MS fine for niche uses but for every day use I trust it as far as you can spit pizza underwater.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Updates

    I just updated my MX Linux laptop with the 18 suggested updates. Took less than two minutes, no reboot required and everything still works as expected. I hope that someday Windows users can know the comfort in that, as well. "Empathetic smiley icon" for Windows users.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Updates

      lucky you. the only icon I see relevant to my download-time experiences [when win-10-nic was first released] is a big fat middle finger

  25. HKmk23

    Puzzled

    I am running windows 10 build 14393.... as it works I stopped it from getting any updates. Of course there are no programs or any information on it of value all that is on my air gapped windows 7 systems.....

    In a single sentence can anyone tell me what I have missed apart from the grief everyone seems to be experiencing?

  26. tempemeaty

    Put on your helmets and assume the position...

    No worries. I'm sure Mangosoft knows what they're doing. ¯\_( ´ º ▽ º ` )_/¯

    My popcorn maker is warmed up and ready.

    \m/(⌐■_■)⎠

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Two minute hate

    Generic rant about MSFT

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Turd being polished...

    ...awaiting new rags.

  29. Subs99

    How to STOP all Windows 10 updates

    StopUpdates10 <--------- the greatest piece of *Freeware* ever written! Can you figure out what it does? Written by Greatis Software. Stop all your silly whining and install it now.

  30. R. Vail

    Re: "Microsoft has been busy patching this build, which now stands at 18362.30, over the last few days."

    Actually, build 18362.53 is the latest build, which was updated from 18362.30 on Patch Tuesday, April 9.

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