back to article Trend Micro antivirus fails to stop measles carrier rubbing against firm's Ottawa offices

An oddly specific health warning has confirmed a case of measles in the Canadian capital of Ottawa – and patient zero is believed to have merrily sauntered through the offices of, er, antivirus maker Trend Micro. The highly infectious viral illness, which by all rights should have been eradicated by now, has been enjoying a …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    get your Morissette meter tingling

    I was in the office kitchen / staff room the other day, and one of the PFYs was scratching around in the cutlery drawer. They expressed their frustration that there were loads of spoons but no knives & forks, and I remarked at how ironic that was. They just gave me a very strange look, and I realised that they weren't even born when that song came out. Some days I feel very old.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

      It's also twenty-five years to the day that Kurt Cobain died...

      1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        It's also twenty-five years to the day that Kurt Cobain died...

        Well that's a blast from the past

        1. Chris 244
          Thumb Down

          Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

          Too soon my friend, too soon.

        2. Montreal Sean

          Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

          @Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese

          I see what you did there.

          Grab that coat and run!

          And have an upvote from me.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        "It's also twenty-five years to the day that Kurt Cobain died..."

        Who? I'm still mourning the death of Elvis Presley. I was planning on attending one of his concerts, when I got the word that he'd died. Darn, it sucks to be old.

      3. MrDamage

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        That is indeed a heavy thought to sit on ones mind first thing in the morning.

        Not as heavy as a bunch of lead pellets, but still.

    2. Wilseus
      Headmaster

      Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

      Yes, most of my underlings are much younger than I am and don't get many of my references, although one of them gets my music ones because he has a much older brother who is my age and already exposed him to a lot of it!

      The rest of them have no choice but to listen to my reminiscing, since I am their boss! :)

      1. The Nazz Silver badge

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        Ah, the good old days when knowledge wasn't easily available at the press of a google search

        We frequently asked music questions of each other. One day the Director stuck his head in and said he had a question no-one would get.

        "Peter and Clive (aka Robin) Sarstedt had another brother, what was he called".

        I looked at him and said ""Well, I Ask You", what sort of question is that."

        In return he called me a clever f***ing c*nt.

        As i say, the good old days when no-one took offence.

    3. John Savard Silver badge

      Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

      I would have stared at you blankly too, even though I was alive when "You Don't Own Me" by Lesley Gore came out, giving occasional blessed relief on the airwaves from two other popular songs that week that sounded like noise to my youthful ears, by some new group from Liverpool.

      1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        Yeah, that group: didn't last.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

      I looked at the manufacturer plate on my IBM keyboard recently and realised it was older than most of the helldesk staff where I work.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: get your Morissette meter tingling

        ....and a lot more usefull?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MMR OK

    With the benefit of hindsight, and the ease of accessing information via the internet, it's clear that MMR vaccine is very probably safe for almost everyone.

    However, at the time when the controversy arose, with the information available to the general public, it was strongly reminiscent of Thalidomide and various other public health disasters. There are good reasons for the widespread distrust of big pharma and more roll in every year.

    Furthermore, then British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who was pushing the MMR vaccination strongly, repeatedly avoided giving a direct answer to a question about whether his own child had had it.

    Bearing all that in mind, it is hardly surprising that so many reacted as they did and that the distrust continues.

    The best way to overcome this unfortunate situation is to keep MMR available but also offer single vaccinations until the fear of MMR recedes. It would be a small price to pay.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MMR OK

      On the other hand you have that tory minister during the BSE crisis almost force-feeding his child with a burger to prove beef was OK to eat

      (trying to think of his name now has images of that poison dwarf Gove dancing in my head... come to think of it, they may have tested BSE on him, and Boris, and...)

      1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

        Re: MMR OK

        I think the burger-mongering was done by John Selwyn-Gummer...although I may be mis-remembering.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          John Selwyn-Gummer

          The hilarious thing about that was that the child resolutely refused to open her mouth, with the cameras on him JSG didn't want to actually hit her and ended up eating the thing himself.

          Absolutely classic, and good on that girl.

          1. The Nazz Silver badge

            Re: John Selwyn-Gummer

            Yes. Almost on a par with Gordon Brown, on camera, calling that Rochdale/Oldham woman (i forget and can't be arsed to google) a bigot and a few other things.

            1. Tomato Krill

              Re: John Selwyn-Gummer

              Rochdale/Olham bigot, to be precise...

          2. Stork Silver badge

            Re: John Selwyn-Gummer

            I was living in the UK then. Remember thinking that in other places, that sort of public abuse of your offspring would end your political career.

    2. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: MMR OK

      No, it wasn't that the people were getting a paucity of information, the problem was the places people chose to trust where information that was available. The thinking went:

      "Big Pharma BAD. Small Doctor and Nurse GOOD."

      Of course, neither of those axioms were true.

      Ratbags.com was, at the time this was playing out, a mine of interesting and depressing information on the blithering being done on thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative that had long-ago been removed from MMR vaccine doses.

      The best hope for humanity right now would seem to be to hope that the populations of anti-vaxers and consumers of Raw Water have a high degree of overlap.

      1. Reaps

        Re: MMR OK

        "The best hope for humanity right now would seem to be to hope that the populations of anti-vaxers and consumers of Raw Water have a high degree of overlap."

        Add the "raw milk" idiots to that list of trendy health nitwits (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/drinking-raw-milk)

      2. EU time zones

        Re: MMR OK

        Well no. Thiomersal continued to be used as a preservative for vaccines in some countries. And since we learnt that we really know very little about organo-heavy metal compounds since Minemata disease and the Camelford problem it wasn't such a crazy concern.

        Show me ONE single safety study (not efficacy study) for MMR that isn't contaminated by manufacturer money or vested interest and I'll go quiet and read it. Just one will do.

        Truth is that we never needed a vaccine against mumps, and the MMR campaign produced an epidemic of adult mumps which is quite a nasty disease, compared with the very mild and often un-noticed childhood illness. And if the rubella vaccine were a car, you'd be entitled to your money back, it's so poor. Compare it to vaccines against Hep B, for example. It's not very good.

        So single-disease measles vaccination is a great improvement, but the vaccine bullies refuse to have the NHS pay for it in the UK - too busy trying to cover their backsides after squandering £1BN on Tamiflu which has been shown to be no better than placebo. Or last year's influenza vaccine, which worked, just not against the most prevalent strain in circulation.

        1. Stevie Silver badge

          Re: MMR OK

          Are you seriously trying to conflate an organic mercury contamination issue with MMR? Seriously? If so, you had better do it with someone who doesn't remember the Minimata Bay episode playing out in real time. I know the difference between a population exposed continuously to massive doses of methyl mercury in their sole food supply and those exposed a few times over a lifetime to a microscopic amount of a completely different compound in a vaccine - or not if you live in the Western World where it hasn't been used in decades.

          Show me ONE study that MMR is an actual, real, not made-up-to-sell-pamphlets-over-the-interwebs-and-make-for-a-good-living-from-speaking-engagements and I will listen.

          The case FOR the MMR/Autism link was fabricated by venal people for their own reasons, and continues to be promoted by venal people who've made quite a good living from doing so.

          The case AGAINST has been made by, well, everyone else in the medical field. Even the journal that published the "study" that started this nauseating ball rolling has repudiated it, as has the author who wrote the bloody thing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: MMR OK

            Wakefield was struck off in this country, you can mention him without fear of libel.

            Also that Private Eye supported him, which is why I don't buy it any more.

        2. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: MMR OK

          Show me ONE single safety study (not efficacy study) for MMR that isn't contaminated by manufacturer money or vested interest and I'll go quiet and read it. Just one will do.

          If you can read Dutch, I suggest you read this.

        3. Hollerithevo Silver badge

          Re: MMR OK

          Have you any experience with childhood mumps? 'Very mild and often un-noticed' is from another universe. I remember great chunks of my early classrooms empty and the kids gone for weeks, in pain, weak, terrible stuff, and missed a lot of school. Worse was whooping cough. I coukld hear my friend from her house and we lived in detached houses.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: MMR OK

            On the other hand, without mumps we wouldn't have most of Winter Holiday, and that would be a great loss.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: MMR OK

          >Truth is that we never needed a vaccine against mumps, and the MMR campaign produced an epidemic of adult mumps which is quite a nasty disease, compared with the very mild and often un-noticed childhood illness.

          My understanding as to why we vaccinated children against mumps; is to protect the adult (male) population. Mind you mumps was one of those childhood illnesses where it seemed it was normal to throw parties and share it around, because they were mild in children, but much worse in adults - as my wife discovered when she caught chicken pox off our daughter...

          >So single-disease measles vaccination is a great improvement

          There are benefits to single vaccines, however, from a population perspective, given the number of diseases that children are vaccinated against, there is a greater probability of more children receiving all the vaccines if fewer Dr/nurse visits are required. One of the problems today of getting children vaccinated is political correctness stupidity, so vaccinations are no longer part of normal school life.

          BTW, good luck finding single vaccine versions of MMR - I seem to remember that production of the mumps single vaccine was discontinued in 2009.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: MMR OK

        When MMR blew up, very few people had internet access.

        Of those that can be bothered to think for themselves, quite reasonably, many people trust information that they find for themselves more than that which is handed to them on a plate.

        As for your hope wrt evolutionary pressures, I see an awful lot of human behaviour that really ought to weed out idiots, but it doesn't seem to work too well.

        We live in hope . . . . . .

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MMR OK

      > it's clear that MMR vaccine is very probably safe for almost everyone.

      Glad you said that, my daughter had a very strong reaction and was hospitalised for a couple of days.

      My son, on the other hand, no problems, just normal reactions.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: MMR OK

        Your daughter was hospitalised for two days.

        I had measles as a child before the vaccine. The resulting brain damage, deafness, and muscular weakness has often caused me since to wish I had actually died.

        People are shit at estimating risk, that's a big problem.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: MMR OK

          >I had measles as a child before the vaccine....

          So did I, I also have measles induced asthma and am allegic to Penicillin - so not in the same league as your complications, hence why not being vaccinated was never going to be an option for my children.

          Agree about the risk - given her previous reactions to other normal childhood vaccines and the medical history of her parents, before consenting we read the notes attached to the vaccine and discussed with Dr, when she did react, well laid plans and NHS...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MMR OK

      I'm slightly surprised at the number of downvotes this post is getting, given its comparatively tolerant and reasonable tone. (My imprecation to the Daleks to exterminate the stupid has been better received).

      The important thing here is to achieve high vaccination rates. If some minor pandering to ignorance and stupidity is required to achieve that, then frankly, so bloody what? Most governments policies are ill-considered crap designed solely to maximise vote-harvests for gutter crawling sleazebag politicians.

      For those who find appeal in the eugenic quality of allowing the children of the ignorant and misguided to be infected with these diseases, please consider the cost of the comparatively high numbers of disabled to dead, and also stop being so bloody psycopathic.

    5. Slef

      Re: MMR OK

      Our two bambinos had individual MMR jabs! Can clearly remember discussing with our GP who explained that there was a critical percentage which needed to be reached to ensure effectiveness of the vaccinations. Mind you in those days we had GP's who we knew and built up working relationships with!

  3. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    Somewhere, Ed Byrne's ears are pricking up.

  4. tallenglish

    What a pile of poo

    I have had my MMR vaccine and it doesn't stop you getting measles at all, it just minimizes the effects.

    Drop this political bollocks just to make a point as you can still get measles (and mumps) even after being vaccinated.

    1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

      Re: What a pile of poo

      No, vaccines will never be 100% effective, as they rely on training your immune system, and human beings are messy.

      Sorry your immune system is so lame, but it DOES prevent a huge percentage of those who get infected from developing to the point of contagion. That is why in the US an "average" outbreak runs a few dozen not tens of thousands.

    2. Glen 1 Silver badge

      Re: What a pile of poo

      Political bollocks...

      It's only political if you think ignorance is a valid point of view.

    3. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: What a pile of poo

      As for the vaccine not "working", understanding of why a few anti-vaxers can fuck everyone over can be had by researching how vaccines provide protection to populations rather than individuals.

      It's not political bollocks. It's science and it works if the ratio of idiots to common sensers is low. Once the "I've never seen measles so it can't be a threat" crowd are a significant fraction of your local population, everyone is at risk.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: What a pile of poo

        The problem of common sense is, that sense never ain't common - Lazarus Long

        1. FozzyBear
          Happy

          Re: What a pile of poo

          "Common Sense is so rare it should be considered a superpower"

          Stated by my 10 yr old son in hearing distance of a local politician

      2. whitepines Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: What a pile of poo

        Once the "I've never seen measles so it can't be a threat" crowd are a significant fraction of your local population, everyone is at risk.

        I wonder, can that be established with a high enough degree of legal credibility to establish liability in a court of law? As in, when measles comes to your area, the local anti-vaxxers are in court paying everyone's bills?

        Scientifically this is all very well proven, but establishing legal liability is a whole different game, hence the question.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a pile of poo

      Find a historical chart of measels death rates and see how number of deaths dropped to virutally zero betwen 1960 and 1970 - google quickly found a chart of US deaths - before 1960 350-500+ deaths from measels per year, after 1970 virutally 0 apart from one spike of 30-40 around 1990.

      Yes many. many people got measles before MMR with minimal effects (I was pre-MMR and had the full set of measles, mumps, rubella (twice!), hooping cough, chicken pox) but for a small number it was very serious and possibly fatal.

      1. disgruntled yank Silver badge

        Re: What a pile of poo

        Washington, DC, is home to Gallaudet University, a school for the deaf. About 1982, it took over a disused junior college some miles away as a prep school to accommodate those deafened by measles back in the 1960s. The prep school did not last long, for measles had been drastically reduced, so reducing the supply of deaf teenagers.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a pile of poo

          >those deafened by measles back in the 1960s.

          I think you actually mean Rubella (German Measles), which is different to measles.

          My cousin is deaf due to his mother having german measles while she was pregnant back in the 60s.

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            Re: What a pile of poo

            It can be both. Deafness because of measles is one of the more common complications at about 5%. Deafness because of congenital rubella is also not uncommon, though eye problems are more prevalent (and far more visible).

  5. Jim-234

    Or you know they could just admit that when you have global travel, sometimes folks from countries that are not considered "first world" countries may have some diseases that they bring with them during travel, much the same as diseases have spread around the world for the past couple thousand years.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      countries that are not considered "first world" countries

      It's difficult to consider a country as first world when a substantial number of parents actively prevent having their children vaccinated.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Not considered "first world" countries

        As I wrote in another comment (on another subject, where the USA was called a third world country):

        Only if you feel magnanimous. The USA is the first country in the world to have reached Fourth World status.

    2. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      I don't buy that argument as small pox is eradicated. All three in the MMR vaccination could already have been eradicated as well by now.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Smallpox is (was) a virus that shows very little mutation, and therefore vaccination was particularly effective, because all strains expressed essentially the same antigens. At the other end of the spectrum, the influenza virus and worse still HIV show huge variations in antigen expression, because they mutate (or form chimeric viruses in the case of influenza) rapidly, thus evading the immune system. That is why vaccination isn't particularly effective in those cases. Measles is somewhere in between, I would guess: Vaccines work well enough, but don't protect fully.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Measles were eradicated in the USA, Canada and Western Europe and the only people to get ill when it is brought in from abroad are those who weren't vaccinated. It is a crying shame that number is rising again to such levels there epidemics in regions that used to be clear of it. Measles does mutate, but not quickly enough to avoid eradication with proper vaccination. And the same goes for the other two in that combination. Influenza and the various immuno viruses (not only HIV, but also FIV, SIV and EIV) do have a tendency to slip trough the cracks of vaccination. However, the immuno viruses can be suppressed with modern medicine to such a level they aren't infectious anymore, so are also good candidates for eradication. The remaining nasties will be influenza and other zoonotic viruses like Ebola and Marburg.

          EDIT: Upvote for being (mostly) correct and proper argumentation.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
            Unhappy

            "The remaining nasties will be influenza and other zoonotic viruses like Ebola and Marburg."

            Nature is pretty effective at popping up new ones of those.

            1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Nature is pretty effective at popping up new ones of those.

              True, I limited myself to the known ones. However, the latest nasty to come out of Africa (HIV) is already pretty much under control with proper medication and some common sense.

          2. Mark 85 Silver badge

            Measles does mutate, but not quickly enough to avoid eradication with proper vaccination.

            Perhaps "eradication" isn't the right word. More like maybe "infection" since the virus hasn't been completely killed off.

    3. A. Coatsworth
      Facepalm

      @Jim-234

      That is basically correct, except that you have it the wrong way around.

      My little 3rd world country had been smallpox-free for 11 years. This year we had 2 outbreaks. They didn't occur among the poor, or destitute, or in the very rural regions, noooo... They were caused by a family of French tourists and a family of USA-sian "missioners" who proudly hadn't vaccinated their spawn and managed to reintroduce the disease to the country.

      The Social Security Institute had spent dozens of thousands of dollars taking care of these morons. So unlike El Reg, I don't wish them swift recovery: this is one of the few cases where stupidity actually hurts, so I hope they are enjoying the ride

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: @Jim-234

        Are you really serious about small pox or are you confusing it with chicken pox? Any single case of small pox would be world wide breaking news head lines as the last case world wide (including some laboratory researchers who got careless) was a good bit more than those 11 years ago. I just checked and the last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977.

        The last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977. Since then, the only known cases were caused by a laboratory accident in 1978 in Birmingham, England, which killed one person and caused a limited outbreak. Smallpox was officially declared eradicated in 1979.

        1. A. Coatsworth
          FAIL

          Re: @Jim-234

          A pox on all of these poxes and their translations to other languages! I meant measles!

          The disease I thought was called "measles" is actually "mumps" and what I thought was "smallpox" is actually "measles"

          Having learned a couple of new English words today, the point remains: 3rd world country was free of highly contagious disease, 1st world travelers bring it back...

          The FAIL icon? for me, obviously.

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            @A. Coatsworth

            A pox on all of these poxes

            For that alone you already deserve an upvote.

            And translations can be frustrating, just makes me curious about your mother tongue though.

            1. A. Coatsworth

              Re: @A. Coatsworth

              Hi!

              My native language is Spanish. Although my English is rather serviceable, or so I like to think, there are areas where I really know next to nothing... It seems disease names is one of them.

              1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

                Re: @A. Coatsworth

                And my native language is Dutch.

              2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                Re: @A. Coatsworth

                It's hardly surprising that common (i.e., not scientific) names for many diseases would elude most second-language speakers. They don't come up that often; and when they do, they may be used inconsistently or incorrectly by native speakers (note discussion above regarding "measles" versus "German measles", aka rubella).

                And they change over time. You rarely see contemporary English speakers talk about getting the grippe or ague, but both terms were common as recently as last century.

                (Note the grippe is often accompanied by ague. Due to compromised immunity, croup or even an opportunistic quinsy might result.)

                1. A. Coatsworth
                  Pint

                  Re: @A. Coatsworth

                  You're right! It is interesting how these infectious diseases seem to have lots of clashing names in a same language, or how different ones get mixed together. The amount of different names for influenza / flu is mind boggling!

                  I didn't know the word grippe, for example, but these examples you give actually look a bit more recognizable for a Spanish speaker! Just get rid of the annoying double consonants:

                  Grippe = gripe, ague = azogue, rubella = rubeola.

                  Thanks!

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. Nunyabiznes Silver badge

    Jenny McCarthy

    She's a nutter who has gone over the edge campaigning against all vaccinations. Apparently, she has no concept of what grief childhood diseases caused throughout history until very recently.

    I wish all the anti-vaxxers would take a statistics class and do a workup on what the numbers are for serious health effects with vaccines vs. w/o.

    1. Notas Badoff

      Re: Jenny McCarthy

      Anti-vax is parental drunk driving, with like dangers to own family and perfect strangers.

      Statistics won't help when the parents are quite bonkers. 2 months of suffering and $800,000 in costs later, and they still won't 'unbelieve'.

      1. Wilseus

        Re: Jenny McCarthy

        "Statistics won't help when the parents are quite bonkers. 2 months of suffering and $800,000 in costs later, and they still won't 'unbelieve'."

        Of course they won't, any costs, fines or other punishments will only prove to them further that the system is out to get them.

    2. Stork Silver badge

      Re: Jenny McCarthy

      Perhaps they do understand statistics - they rely on herd immunity to avoid the diseases.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: Jenny McCarthy

        In that case they clearly don't. If too many parents do that, that same herd immunity is soon gone as evidenced by those epidemics.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Jenny McCarthy

          The optimal strategy is to be the only one that DOESN'T vaccinate.

          That way you are safe from the disease because of herd immunity but avoid any microscopic risk of the vaccine.

          Of course, like being the only driver who runs red lights, it fails spectacularly once there are more than one like you.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Jenny McCarthy

            Not really a good example, as being the only driver who runs red lights doesn't make you any less susceptible to getting t-boned by someone who has a green light from the left or right. In fact, having lots of people running red lights would make it SAFER, because everyone would be forced to treat a green light as a yield sign and make sure there weren't any red light runners coming their way.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: Jenny McCarthy

              I know - I couldn't remember the word for "yellow" traffic lights

              I was completely blanking on amber - to be fair it's really hard to type reg comments while driving !

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Jenny McCarthy

                Well the same is true for yellow lights, if you are the only one who runs them or a lot of people do it doesn't matter. What matters is how long the "red in all four directions" cycle is.

                Back in the day the lights around here went from yellow to red and the opposite lanes got green at the exact same moment, so if someone ran a yellow light that turned red a second or two before they entered the intersection it could lead to accidents. Now they all have a two count with red every direction, so running a 'yellow oops red' won't cause an accident since the cross traffic will still be stopped.

              2. Tomato Krill

                Re: Jenny McCarthy

                Especially while trying not to spill your beer

              3. Stork Silver badge

                Re: Jenny McCarthy

                amber - AKA "taxi green" in Copenhagen

          2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Jenny McCarthy

            The optimal strategy is to be the only one that DOESN'T vaccinate.

            A standard Prisoner's Dilemma - there's an advantage to defecting, but only if no other player (or only a small minority) defects.

            Even then, though, with many infectious diseases there's always some risk of getting exposed from some non-human reservoir.

  7. tallenglish

    If you are infectious - stay away from work

    Should be common sense - same for chicken pox (or shingles for old folk).

    I have had MMR and Chicken pox vaccines and had measles twice and chicken pox once (not at same time I was vaccinated either).

    BUT this is Murica we are talking about - where nobody has sick leave, so are forced to come in to work even IF they are sick.

    THAT IS THE REAL THING TO BLAME HERE.

    Most civilized countries would allow sick people to stay at home so they didn't spread any infectious deseases unnecesarilly.

    America isn't a civilized country though.

    1. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

      Commonsense but when you then call up sick and get told "Sorry but you're already at the limit of your sick leave. If you don't come in unfortunately we'll have to put you on sick report" or get told something similar. You can then understand why people go in when sick.

      Much like, many moons ago, when I had an open wound on my leg after having a minor op done on it. And having a note from the doctor saying "Don't go in or it could get infected" I was asked by a manager at Waitrose when I called "Are you sure you can't come in? Can't you do office work?".

      That is the problem.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

        Tesco did (and probably still do) put people recovering from food poisoning on the checkouts (2 weeks before your meant to handle food for others.

        They are also big on "supporting your attendance" meaning in reality be off anymore than 3% in a year and your seen a problem to be managed out of the business, this is whether you've been signed off work with a communicable disease, injured at work and signed off or other similar, this means should you work part time of say 12 hours a week, being off for more than 1 or 2 shifts ends up with you exceeding the 3%

        Place is like a dickensian workhouse.

        Former Tesco worker (twice for my sins)

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

        "Sorry but you're already at the limit of your sick leave. If you don't come in unfortunately we'll have to put you on sick report"

        Ask to see HR to explain the situation. When you get there explain that you've only come in to see them as a special favour to them. "My doctor told me I shouldn't have come here. I'm actually putting you at serious risk of catching it.".

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

          Ask to see HR to explain the situation. When you get there explain that you've only come in to see them as a special favour to them. "My doctor told me I shouldn't have come here. I'm actually putting you at serious risk of catching it.".

          Make sure you infect everybody in HR before telling them you are putting them at risk. And make sure somebody outside of HR keeps a registry of their sick leave. And while you are at the office, make sure to say hello to your manager and the rest of your work group, preferably before seeing HR.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

            Turn up for work wearing one of those white suits with a respirator mask and big rubber gloves ...

            1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

              If you go that route, just make sure your corpse is delivered to your place of work every day between dying and the actual funeral.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

      Bizarrely, and for what most people agree are political reasons, NHS staff in the UK are also strongly pressured to come into work regardless of whether or not they are ill, including with infectious diseases.

      Failure to adhere to an entirely arbitrary limit on number of bouts of sick leave results in disciplinary measures then sacking.

      If you have to set foot inside a hospital use the hand sanitizers at every opportunity and try not to breathe.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

        Bizarrely, and for what most people agree are political reasons, NHS staff in the UK are also strongly pressured to come into work regardless of whether or not they are ill, including with infectious diseases.

        I sincerely hope they infect their managers (and the political idiots above those) with serious illnesses.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

          I couldn't agree more.

          However, those I know working in the UK NHS are all far more humane than I, (probably a prerequisite for those careers) and have always refused my offers of baseball bat and balaclava type re-programming of defective personnel.

          I live in hope though, these days they do consider it before saying 'No'.

    3. dajames Silver badge

      Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

      Most civilized countries would require sick people to stay at home so they didn't spread any infectious deseases unnecesarilly.

      FTFY.

    4. Bruce Ordway

      Re: If you are infectious - stay away from work

      While working in tech support, I used to handle the mice, keyboards and phones of others.

      This resulted in me catching a lot of bugs over the years.

      I get irritated now when see someone that is sick in a public space, and I'm bewildered by people who are not getting vaccinated. I'm sure there are a few people valid reasons out there but my opinion usually defaults to "they are a menace to society".

  8. jon909

    What next?

    Someone at Intel gets burnt cooking chips? My coat is already on...

  9. Glen 1 Silver badge
    Headmaster

    My Parents were unsure...

    My parents were unsure (context: this was in the early eighties), came down on what they thought was the side of caution. Didn't vaccinate me.

    ...

    I got measles when I was 5, was one of the 1 in 20 who also got pneumonia. I nearly died. Spent time on the isolation ward (thank you NHS).

    If/when I ever have kids you can be damn sure that they will be vaccinated.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: My Parents were unsure...

      Congratulations on not developing more severe complications like encephalitis (1-3 in 1,000).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My Parents were unsure...

      Interestingly, in the US there are now an increasing number of anti-anti-vax teenagers who are demanding the right to get vaccinated against their parents wishes because they've studined the evidence and decided that their parents' views are harming them.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: My Parents were unsure...

        Good for them. I hope some of them do take their parents to court when they get infected.

    3. CountCadaver Bronze badge

      Re: My Parents were unsure...

      My mum refused to vaccinate me against whooping cough on the basis of a newspaper report and some halfwitted GP who mumbled some weasel words,she also went for single vaccines to "avoid overloading their immune systems" (this mid 80s so before wakefield)

      Result I get a serious bout whooping cough as an adult, practice nurse "oh no it can't be that, only kids get that and all kids get vaccinated", my mum as usual "you'll no have that" this despite my dad had it also and badly (caught it from me)

      I swear we should hive off the ignorant during primary and secondary school, give up trying to educate them and either sterilise them or take any offspring away for their own protection from their "parents" idiocy

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: My Parents were unsure...

        Back when I wor a lad only girls were vaccinated against Rubella (German Measles) because it causes birth defects, and there was no vaccine for mumps.

        Is Rubella as big a problem as measles - you don't hear much about it ?

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: My Parents were unsure...

          Is Rubella as big a problem as measles - you don't hear much about it ?

          Rubella itself isn't, congenital rubella is at least as big a problem.

        2. Manolo
          Joke

          Re: My Parents were unsure...

          "Is Rubella as big a problem as measles - you don't hear much about it ?"

          That's because we vaccinate against it.... ;-)

          (Sorry, couldn't resist)

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a coincidence

    It appears that the iTunes store was "patient zero" for the infection by dodgy Trend Micro apps:

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/trend-micro-apps-leak-user-data-removed-from-mac-app-store/

  11. Montreal Sean

    Wonderful.

    So glad to hear that the anti-vaxers have infiltrated Canada too. :(

    Speedy recovery to the one infected, and please don't come to Montreal. I'm vaccinated and so is my family, but my wife's health puts her at risk regardless. :(

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Wonderful.

      We have better than anti-vaxxers on the west coast. We also have raw-water "enthusiasts" fortunately they tend to only harm themselves.

  12. Jeffrey Nonken

    Never got the vaccination. But I've got the immunity.

    I'm on the autism spectrum.

    My sister got the vaccination.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That just shows how dangerous these vaccines are - they cause a form of autism that can be transmitted between siblings!

    2. Jeffrey Nonken

      Hmm... two thumbs down?

      I never got the vaccination because I got the measles before the vaccination was available.

      My sister got the vaccination because it was available before she got the measles.

      I have the immunity because I have godlike powers... er, I mean, because I got it the old fashioned way. What can I say? I'm an old-fashioned guy.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Europe also has antivax outbreaks, it's not restricted to the Muricans.

    Worryingly, the recent highly virulent strains are multiresistant. Some have speculated that the petri dish of YouTube has encouraged selection for mutations that can render all known forms of reasoning ineffective.

  14. Alistair
    Windows

    apparently there were two of them

    About a week ago someone came back from somewhere with measles here in the Toronto area and wandered through a shopping mall before they went to the doctors. Made the news....

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stupid as a human right.

    Wilfully believing in dumb shit for a gamut of equally dumb reasons seems to get ever more common.

    Almost as if being stupid for the sake of it is seen as an Essential Human Right or even Expression of 'Culture'.

    I will not lift a finger to help those blighted by wilful stupidity, and I hope they're removed from the gene pool at the first opportunity.

    Bigging up the first Dalek to utter the words "Exterminate The Stupid".

    1. Glen 1 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Stupid as a human right.

      *cough*Brexit*cough*

  16. earl grey
    Meh

    i don't understand the "raw water" comments

    I have a well and have never treated the water from it since it was bored (many years ago). How is this a bad thing (or are you talking about city water)?

    Also, have had two sets of shots to try to minimize shingles, but never heard it was contagious. Yes, i had chicken pox as a kid and the virus is always with you after that.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: i don't understand the "raw water" comments

      Also, have had two sets of shots to try to minimize shingles, but never heard it was contagious. Yes, i had chicken pox as a kid and the virus is always with you after that.

      If you have an active outbreak of shingles, you are contagious. Luckily, most people are already immune for chicken pox because they had it as a child, but it can be quite severe for any adult who managed to miss it as a child and people with a weakened or compromised immune system (like people suffering from measles).

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: i don't understand the "raw water" comments

      A deep well that you had tested (arsnic, lead etc) is one thing. Assuming any stream is safe because it is surrounded by pretty trees - in a country full of beavers is another.

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: i don't understand the "raw water" comments

        Sooo, never drink where a beaver may have peed?

        I never drink water, I think the Vikings had it right that processing into wine or beer made water drinkable.

        I had measles, whooping cough and chicken pox in the '50s, never had mumps and been near it dozens of times, my mum seemed to be immune to it too, other than arrogance they are the only diseases I have had.

        Not sure if I have been near a doctor since MMR was invented.

      2. whitepines Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: i don't understand the "raw water" comments

        Assuming any stream is safe because it is surrounded by pretty trees

        Does a bear shit in the stream woods?

        They do make tablets for people that live / work / play in remote areas (think military, park rangers, and yes even hunters and the like) to make unknown water potable (they're not foolproof, but sure better than dying of dehydration or drinking aforementioned bear crap). Not at least using one of those is plain idiocy unless you were dumped in the wilderness after being kidnapped and have no other source of water...

        Icon since there's no biohazard, this'll be close enough....

    3. Schultz Silver badge
      Boffin

      I have a well and have never treated the water from it ...

      Your well might be clean, or it might not. I'd personally, go with tap water if it is available - it should be continuously monitored and treated only to the degree required to make it potable. In many places, the tap water is better than the 'mineral water' you might buy in the supermarket.

      If you like your well, then you should get the well water tested. That shouldn't be expensive and you can make an informed decision on whether the well is putting out decent water. There can be nasty stuff in seemingly clean water - such as lead leached by the groundwater, or agricultural runoff making it through some porous rock. If you drink that water on a daily basis, testing it should be worth your while. And you might get bragging rights for the cleanest well in the area.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    jabs R 4 sheeple

    eh tu?

    https://www.naturalblaze.com/2019/04/3-new-reasons-to-question-vaccine-effectiveness-amid-anti-vaxxer-censorship.html

    3 New Reasons To Question Vaccine Effectiveness Amid “Anti-Vaxxer” Censorship

    ...Straight away, here are three reasons that have popped up in recent weeks why people are questioning the effectiveness of vaccines.

    Fully Vaccinated Sailors & a Mumps Outbreak

    If you were not aware, all branches of the US military require a full battery of vaccines for all new recruits. According to this chart on military vaccines administered for Basic Training and Officer Accession Training, updated Feb. 2019, “Measles Mumps and rubella (MMR) are administered to all recruits regardless of prior history”. Meaning, that even if these servicemembers received their required MMR vaccines as children, they would have been given yet another upon entering the Navy.

    So… Why are they getting mumps?..

    ...Cui Bono?

    Maybe now is a good time to point out that major pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars every year peddling their wares.

    By billions, we’re talking nearly $30 billion in 2016 alone. Big Pharma forked over $9.6 billion to mainstream media outlets for the privilege of running direct-to-consumer (DTC) ads that year. That means American viewers saw an astounding 663,000 TV commercials for pharmaceuticals in 2016.. Our government representatives, well funded by Big Pharma campaign contributions and surrounded by the industry’s lobbyists ($27.5 million in 2018), are well aware of the fact that this practice is a cost effective way of turning viewers into patients.

    Recently, an FDA medical adviser straight up told Yahoo! Finance, “Congress is owned by pharma.”...The problem is, more and more people are realizing that vaccines are not 100 percent safe and without side effects. Those side effects are worth discussing, especially when we’re dealing with vaccines which the CDC has admitted are not as effective as they should be or Merck scientists-turned whistleblowers are litigating over.

    The package inserts for vaccines list a wide and sometimes horrifying array of side effects. The MMR Insert, directly off Merck’s own website, says, “M-M-R II has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or potential to impair fertility.”

    Ahem. Why not? Doesn’t that seem like an important thing to evaluate??

    The government’s no-fault Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) has paid out $4 billion to vaccine injured Americans since it was set up in 1986. That’s the same year Congress signed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which in essence set up a system that does not allow Americans to directly sue vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injuries.

    It’s probably not a coincidence that the schedule of vaccines went from seven injections and 24 doses in 1983 before this legislation was passed, to a whopping 51 injections of 70 doses by 2016...

    ------

    https://www.activistpost.com/2019/04/if-truth-be-told-about-death-disability-vaccines-ineffectiveness-with-validation-from-peer-review-journals-demographic-charts-graphs.html

    If Truth Be Told About Death, Disability & Vaccines Ineffectiveness With Validation From Peer Review Journals, Demographic Charts & Graphs

    Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Varicella Combination Vaccine and the Risk of Febrile Seizures

    That is the title of a Pediatrics journal Volume 126, No. 1, July 2010, article written by MDs, PhDs, and MPHs from Kaiser Permanente Vaccine Study Center, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care Institute and Harvard Medical School, Kaiser Permanente Colorado, HealthPartners Research Foundation, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation, and Immunization Safety Office, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which stated this conclusion in the Abstract:

    Conclusions: Among 12- to 23-month-olds who received their first dose of measles containing vaccine, fever and seizure were elevated 7 to 10 days after vaccination.

    Vaccination with MMRV results in 1 additional febrile seizure for every 2300 doses given instead of separate MMR + varicella vaccines. Providers who recommend MMRV should communicate to parents that it increases the risk of fever and seizure over that already associated with measles-containing vaccines.

    Source: Pediatrics 2010, 126:e1-e8

    [This article indicates an added health risk that parents are not aware of in addition to those risks associated with ‘traditional MMR’ vaccines: an apparent link with Autism.]

    SIDS: Sudden Infant Death Syndrome

    Japan

    In 1975, when Japan stopped vaccinating children under the age of 2 years dramatic improvements in their infant mortality occurred. Japan’s place in the world scale of infant mortality went from 17, a poor position, to number 1, the best performance. It is quite clear that the shift of the lower vaccination limit to 2 years resulted in a dramatic decrease in SIDS going quickly from a very high to the lowest rate of infant deaths in the world. Between 1970 and 1974, 37 infant deaths occurred after DPT vaccination in Japan and because of this the doctors in one prefecture boycotted the vaccination.

    In 1975 Japan raised the minimum vaccination age to two years; this was followed by the virtual disappearance of cot death and infantile convulsions.

    Diphtheria-tetanus toxoids-pertussis vaccination and sudden infant deaths in Tennessee.

    Journal Pediatrics. 1982 Sep; 101(3):419-21

    “At the 34th Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Pediatrics, presented a study linking the DPT shot with SIDS. Torch concluded: “These data show that DPT vaccination may be a generally unrecognized major cause of sudden infant and early childhood death, and that the risks of immunization may outweigh its potential benefits. A need for reevaluation and possible modification of current vaccination procedures is indicated by this study.” –Harris Coulter

    ...Vaccinated children may be asymptomatic reservoirs for infection.

    Source: CDC

    Source: Wiley Online Library

    Anomalies Regarding Vaccines

    [Vaccines don’t work in highly vaccinated populations!]

    So why, then, does an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association make this statement: The risk of measles and pertussis is elevated in personal exemptors. Public health personnel should recognize the potential effect of exemptors in outbreaks in their communities, and parents should be made aware of the risks involved in not vaccinating their children. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/284/24/3145 when it’s been demonstrated in various countries that measles and pertussis vaccines don’t work even with highly vaccinated populations?

    Memorial Site: Gardasil® Deaths

    http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

    YouTube Videos: “Gardasil® Girls”

    Thousands of Girls’ Stories about Gardasil® Adverse Reactions

    http://www.gardasil-and-unexplained-deaths.com/victims

    Countries Reporting Gardasil® Adverse Reaction to CDC’s VAERS

    Over 17,500 adverse reactions and 61 deaths have been reported to VAERS (estimated 1 to 10% of the population reporting). The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) has posted 272 VAERS reports of abnormal pap tests post-vaccination. Reports of deaths and injuries are now coming in from the United States, New Zealand, Australia, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Spain and India.

    Source: EnnisLaw (The online URL address has been compromised and does not open. However, when the original work was composed in 2010, it was a correct working URL address.)

    Now, the ironic proof that vaccines/vaccinations have NOT saved the global population from infectious diseases ‘pandemics’ is found in the historical, statistical demographic records regarding human diseases as charted in the following information:

    Natural Infectious Disease Declines vs. Vaccination Effectiveness and Dangers

    http://preventdisease.com/news/09/111009_infectious_disease_decline_vs_vaccinations.shtml

    Scroll down a few lines to

    “Vaccines Did Not Save Us! Two Centuries of Official Statistics”

    where you will find epidemiological statistics graphs for most of the infectious diseases. There are eleven (11) full-color charts courtesy of Raymond Obomsawin, PhD, Senior Advisor – First Nations Centre National Aboriginal Health Organization, graphically illustrated in October 2009.

    Please don’t stop there!

    Continue on scrolling through all the remaining charts that indicate the HHS/CDC/FDA/Big Pharma lie told often enough has become a ‘medical truth’, i.e., vaccines saves lives!

    What happened to the natural decline in deaths from the waning of communicable infectious diseases in what can be considered cyclical patterns of human disease and immune response development long before the manufacture of vaccines?

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