back to article Google Pay tells Euro users it has ditched UK for Ireland ahead of Brexit

Google Pay has this week shifted its service provision for all non-UK users in the European Economic Area from Britain and into Ireland ahead of Brexit. Up until now, the Google Payments terms of service have been offered by Google Payment Limited, a company incorporated in the UK. But the ad and search giant this week …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Regulatory regime

    I seem to remember that Eire's data protection regulator is a shed on a allotment.

    How is their financial regulator? As ruthless in controlling the financial services industry as it was in 2008?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Regulatory regime

      I imagine every bit as ruthless as our own but about to get a kick up the backside as GDPR enforcement starts to get pushed by the EU.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Regulatory regime

      Looking at how Apple and Microsoft love Ireland, I think we can say "extremely big business friendly"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Regulatory regime

      "I seem to remember that Eire's data protection regulator is a shed on a allotment."

      Eire has benefited greatly from the EU. Any such organisation will have been upgraded from a shed to several glass buildings employing many hundreds while failing to complete audit trails.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Regulatory regime

        >Any such organisation will have been upgraded from a shed to several glass buildings employing many hundreds while failing to complete audit trails.

        They are hoping to expand into the corner shop next door.

        Irish_data_cops_to_get_double_funding_next_year

  2. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    We'll see more of this

    A business has to make decisions driven by economics, and given the uncertainty after three years of non-stop negotiations, it makes solid sense to move to a country that offers a stable business environment for customers in Europe. This is not a "leaver or remainer" decision - it's simple the smart thing to do ... we even see many of the Brexit champions moving their assets abroad.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: we even see many of the Brexit champions moving their assets abroad

      You mean to say that they haven't got their bolt holes already lined up?

      I think that they would have had a 'Plan B' all ready and waiting in case the referendum of 2016 went the way of the remainers????

      We are doomed I tell ye, doomed.

      Mines the one with the keys to my chateau in the Loire in the pocket. :) :)

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: We'll see more of this

      three years of non-stop negotiations

      This needs some qualification: negotiations didn't really start until the autumn of 2017 and even then they were led by Mr David Who-Needs-Briefing Davis, they were then essentially wrapped up by Christmas with the infamous declaration. Since then the government has essentially contented itself with rearranging the deckchairs.

    3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: We'll see more of this

      "after three years of non-stop negotiations"

      Really? Have they started? Last I looked, Mrs May was still making up shit as she goes along, completely oblivious to what the other side has said about what they were prepared to entertain.

      But to your main point, yes, since the UK has clearly gone completely round the bend, all businesses that *can* get out probably have a duty to shareholders to actually do so.

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: We'll see more of this

        The real disaster is that, Brexit or No Brexit, the damage has already been done - whatever the politicians do now, it's not going to fix the damage.

        I was against leaving the EU but now I'm bored, I don't think it makes any difference what happens, the UK has face-planted itself in front of the entire world. It's clear that leaving will be stunningly difficult for years, but unfortunately revoking Article 50 would probably not "fix" anything either.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: We'll see more of this

        "Really? Have they started? Last I looked, Mrs May was still making up shit as she goes along, completely oblivious to what the other side has said about what they were prepared to entertain."

        Oh yes, the Government negotiating team really did spend a long time negotiating and they even agreed a deal. They just forgot to inform Parliament about the negotiations as they were happening to make sure the eventual deal was something acceptable to a majority.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: We'll see more of this

          "Oh yes, the Government negotiating team really did spend a long time negotiating and they even agreed a deal. They just forgot to inform Parliament about the negotiations as they were happening to make sure the eventual deal was something acceptable to a majority."

          And based on the indicative votes, there are no Brexit option acceptable to the majority. Even options that the EU would likely never accepted, have failed the indicative vote test.

          It seems that the parliamentarians are too busy fighting the next election to bother with negotiating a proper Brexit. Because regardless of what happens, most of Britain is going to hate the Brexit result they get. Labour will just blame the Conservatives and say the Brexit mess wouldn't have happened if everyone listened to them. Hard Brexiters will blame everyone for not doing a proper hard Brexit, because if they had, everything would have gone great. Soft Brexiters will blame everyone not doing doing a soft Brexit, and if everyone had listened to them, everything would have been great. Remainers will blame all of the Brexit camps. etc. etc.

          It is also why May keeps surviving confidence votes. No one in parliament wants to have to actually deal with Brexit, so they want her to wear it until Brexit is done. And what then? Boris, the Brexit saviour as the next PM?

  3. DontFeedTheTrolls
    Mushroom

    Lost Tax

    Just as we're starting to get Google to pay tax in the UK, we've lost it again due to Brexit.

    "Brexit will be good for business", they said. Expect there's no business left.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Lost Tax

      @DontFeedTheTrolls

      "Just as we're starting to get Google to pay tax in the UK, we've lost it again due to Brexit."

      Cant win with some people. First complaining about the amount of tax Google pay then complaining they are leaving. And since we have yet to have brexit but instead every attempt to remain (we have overshot the brexit date) is causing this uncertainty. But yeah sure blame brexit.

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: Lost Tax

        And since we have yet to have brexit but instead every attempt to remain

        Nope, every attempt by the DUP and the various mostly tory factions to have their way or else trying to hold eachother over a barrel have brought about the total total shameful shambles.

        They've only served to strengthened and increasing remain sentiments.

        the various brexit factions have only themselves to blame.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Lost Tax

          @Teiwaz

          "the various brexit factions have only themselves to blame."

          That is kinda true, kinda wrong. Brexit is a unilateral action, we can just do it and its done. The delay and debate is over 'negotiations' as if we need to negotiate leaving and how much we wish to remain in. So trying not to leave or partially leave is causing this problem, leaving should and could have been done days ago (or sooner but that 2 yrs should have been preparing to leave).

          Amusingly the EU are starting to now make brexit preparations as if they didnt expect us to leave, just like our gov. Which only adds to the distrust of all those politicians for us leave voters.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Lost Tax

            "That is kinda true, kinda wrong. Brexit is a unilateral action, we can just do it and its done. The delay and debate is over 'negotiations' as if we need to negotiate leaving and how much we wish to remain in. So trying not to leave or partially leave is causing this problem, leaving should and could have been done days ago (or sooner but that 2 yrs should have been preparing to leave).

            Amusingly the EU are starting to now make brexit preparations as if they didnt expect us to leave, just like our gov. Which only adds to the distrust of all those politicians for us leave voters."

            this is the type of uneducated bollocks that got us in this position.....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lost Tax

      ""Brexit will be good for business", they said. Expect there's no business left."

      They are not a UK business.

      Just install Owncloud, free yourself from the beast. The personal server revolution is coming.

  4. alain williams Silver badge

    So this has nothing to do with ...

    a more favourable tax regime in Eire ?

    1. thegroucho
      WTF?

      Re: So this has nothing to do with ...

      If that was the case don't you think a few people would have been sacked within Google for not maximising the profits???

      Or is there rule in taxation which Apple, et all could use, but Google couldn't?

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: So this has nothing to do with ...

        "Or is there rule in taxation which Apple, et all could use, but Google couldn't?"

        Actually, yes. That's what the Apple/Ireland tax shenanigans case was about.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: So this has nothing to do with ...

      When it comes to finances London already offers very favourable terms, but other EU countries (Malta, Cyprus and Luxembourg) have even tastier tax deals for those that want them.

    3. big_D Silver badge

      Re: So this has nothing to do with ...

      No, this has to do with the UK not being GDPR compliant after Brexit and the possibility that UK companies won't be able to store or process PII for EU citizens. It is an effort to keep business as uninterupted as possible.

    4. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: So this has nothing to do with ...

      No, otherwise they would have set up there in the first place.

  5. iron Silver badge
    Windows

    All the multinationals will be doing this, they have no choice.

    Welcome to unemployed and unemployable Britain, it's what YOU voted for!

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      @iron

      "Welcome to unemployed and unemployable Britain, it's what YOU voted for!"

      With the lowest unemployment rate in decades? Vs the EU proper that is still in a dire financial situation and high unemployment in various member countries and overall higher than the UK.

      Yes it is what I voted for and if you are in the UK you are welcome. If you are in the EU I hope things get better.

      1. DJO Silver badge

        Re: @iron

        While the unemployment rate expressed as a percentage is lower than last year the total number of workers (both in and out of employment) is also greater so the total number of unemployed is actually higher than last year, rising year-on-year and will get higher because of Brexit.

        Remember a figure in isolation is misleading, often deliberately misleading.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: @iron

          @DJO

          "While the unemployment rate expressed as a percentage is lower than last year the total number of workers (both in and out of employment) is also greater so the total number of unemployed is actually higher than last year, rising year-on-year and will get higher because of Brexit."

          That would suggest the number of people of working age and condition are increasing, which suggests more people. Yet the percentage of unemployed is the lowest in decades, even with more people we still have a lower unemployment rate.

          So if it is because of brexit that suggests more people coming here which flies against the claims of remainers. And also it would be a demonstration of the country doing better not worse. Not sure if your post was suggesting brexit as a good or a bad but it does seem to be promoting benefits of brexit.

          1. DJO Silver badge

            Re: @iron

            the number of people of working age and condition are increasing

            Well you see when a mummy and daddy love each other they do funny things together and make new people, eventually these people join the workforce and as they can breed faster than they die off and because the retirement age is increasing the number of workers will increase.

            Nothing to do with Brexit fantasies whatsoever.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: @iron

              @DJO

              "Well you see when a mummy and daddy love each other they do funny things together and make new people, eventually these people join the workforce and as they can breed faster than they die off and because the retirement age is increasing the number of workers will increase."

              And so with the increase in population (the freaking point of his post I was referring to) and the same proportion of people in work still means this country has a historically low unemployment rate

              1. DJO Silver badge

                Re: @iron

                Big bloody deal, the actual number of unemployed people is higher even if the "rate" is lower.

                Anyway it's all bollocks, the government continually change the way the unemployment figures are calculated to reflect well on them. I guarantee if the same methods were used now as were used 10 or 20 years ago the results would be significantly different.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: @iron

                  @DJO

                  "Big bloody deal, the actual number of unemployed people is higher even if the "rate" is lower."

                  Yes, so its a good thing because it means even more people than that are employed. We also dont want an unemployment nearing zero because that means there is nobody changing jobs. So if the actual number of unemployed grows so does the number of employed if the rate is still the same. In fact vastly more are employed compared to the much fewer unemployed.

                  An actual number on its own isnt worth much without knowing what it is compared to.

                  1. MonkeyBob
                    Facepalm

                    Re: @iron

                    There might be more people in work, but we're not getting any more productivity for it

                    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47826195

                2. Down not across Silver badge

                  Re: @iron

                  Anyway it's all bollocks, the government continually change the way the unemployment figures are calculated to reflect well on them. I guarantee if the same methods were used now as were used 10 or 20 years ago the results would be significantly different.

                  This. How many people are on zero hour contracts and thus technically employed even if they may have no hours of work actually offered. No such thing 20 years ago.

                  The figures are constantly massaged to make them look better. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

            2. JohnG Silver badge

              Re: @iron

              ".... they can breed faster than they die off..."

              Except, they don't breed faster than they die off - the birth rate is below replacement rate in Europe and this has been the case for a long time. Throughout Europe, any increase in population is through immigration.

              1. katrinab Silver badge

                Re: @iron

                What’s relevant here is the birth rate about 20 years ago vs the birth rate 68 years ago.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @iron

              Ah, that's why UK politicians say they love their country very much then to do those 'funny things' to it?

          2. DJO Silver badge

            Re: @iron

            promoting benefits of brexit

            You must be joking, there are no benefits from Brexit for anybody with a net worth of under a few million or so.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: @iron

              @DJO

              "You must be joking, there are no benefits from Brexit for anybody with a net worth of under a few million or so."

              Seriously? I suggest you go look at the situation in Europe currently and look at our country.

              1. DJO Silver badge

                Re: @iron

                I suggest you go look at the situation in Europe currently and look at our country.

                I know, it's awful, the most prosperous and successful trading bloc in history, relative peace for over 50 years in a region that previously was constantly at war somewhere, compared to the UK parliament the EU one is completely harmonious, massive fiscal savings due to economy of scale, mandatory fair treatment for workers such as paid medical leave, far better than anywhere else in the world.

                All quite dreadful, can't imagine why anybody would want that.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: @iron

                  @DJO

                  "I know, it's awful"

                  I am so sorry, are you in Greece? Italy?

                  "relative peace for over 50 years in a region that previously was constantly at war somewhere"

                  If you are referring to the last world war where the EU has existed for less than half the time since it happened. I assume you dont account for Russia/Ukraine as Europe? A war caused by the EU.

                  "compared to the UK parliament the EU one is completely harmonious"

                  So your justification for a crap government above our crap government is- we have a crap government? How does that help? Isnt the EU still wetting itself because extremist parties are being elected in the member countries? Those extreme parties having in common a resistance to the ever growing EU and their duff currency?

                  "massive fiscal savings due to economy of scale"

                  Where? Greece isnt doing very well. Italy? Etc. All being stuffed by the EU and their currency.

                  "mandatory fair treatment for workers such as paid medical leave, far better than anywhere else in the world"

                  A place with such high unemployment and poor economies wondering why they are doing so badly.... and you tell me they are raising the barriers to employment. Now if we take 2 and add 2 we get (dont pose this question to the EU, it wont do any good).

                  "All quite dreadful, can't imagine why anybody would want that."

                  No kidding. Vote leave.

          3. This post has been deleted by its author

          4. eldakka Silver badge

            Re: @iron

            That would suggest the number of people of working age and condition are increasing, which suggests more people. Yet the percentage of unemployed is the lowest in decades, even with more people we still have a lower unemployment rate.

            That is not how the unemployed figures are calculated.

            Unemployed doesn't mean you don't have a job.

            If you are not working and, in the survey period, didn't apply for a job in that survey period, then you won't count as unemployed even though you don't have a job and want one.

            The way unemployment and employed have been calculated has changed so often, and has so many caveats against it, that the figure is a political, rather than a real, number.

            The figures form 30 years ago cannot be compared directly to the figures of today, as they actually mean different things than they did 30 years ago (which was measured differently 30 years before that, and so on ad infinitum).

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: @iron

              @eldakka

              "The figures form 30 years ago cannot be compared directly to the figures of today, as they actually mean different things than they did 30 years ago (which was measured differently 30 years before that, and so on ad infinitum)."

              Thats fine, I will accept that for now. The comparison of employment being harmonised in the EU, the EU proper is doing badly and we are doing fantastic. We know why. We know it is a self inflicted crisis. That is why I dont care if they wish to define it as immigration or birth rates or as you have said the measurement method today to previous years. All of that is fine because it still leaves us with the burning question we know the answer to- why is the UK doing so much better than the EU proper?

      2. Roj Blake

        Re: @iron

        We also have the second highest rate of poverty in the EU. Only Romania has more poverty.

        1. Julian Bradfield

          Re: @iron

          fake news. See

          https://fullfact.org/economy/uks-poverty-rate-around-average-eu/

        2. The Nazz Silver badge

          Re: @iron

          re poverty

          I don't know if it still is, but isn't "Poverty" defined as someone having only 60% or less of the average/median income? Something like that.

          How the hell do you hope to eradicate poverty with that mentality?

        3. jonfr

          Re: @iron

          After Brexit, then yes. Today that's a no.

      3. LDS Silver badge

        "With the lowest unemployment rate in decades?"

        So why vote to keep away those job-stealing foreigners?

        "EU proper that is still in a dire financial situation"

        Which is the effect of a few countries were politicians kept on stubbornly to burn money to buy votes, that's true. Let's see what happens after UK leaves EU...

        "high unemployment in various member countries"

        Think that Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic and Poland have lower unemployment rates than UK (https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/) - maybe it doesn't tell everything about a country situation? What about GDP per capita, for example - and UK is probably a country with higher wealth concentration than others with slightly higher unemployment (but with strong unemployed support, like Denmark)?

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: "With the lowest unemployment rate in decades?"

          @LDS

          "So why vote to keep away those job-stealing foreigners?"

          I didnt, did you?

          "Which is the effect of a few countries were politicians kept on stubbornly to burn money to buy votes, that's true. Let's see what happens after UK leaves EU..."

          That would be most countries. Hell even Germany and France ignored the budget rules when it suited.

          "Think that Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic and Poland have lower unemployment rates than UK"

          And my Polish neighbour was still happier to be here. Not a shock why since we are the 5th richest country. But thanks for pointing out how great our country is doing in comparison to the EU.

          "What about GDP per capita, for example - and UK is probably a country with higher wealth concentration than others"

          Its good news isnt it! Just think of those well paid people who are paying for all the services we use. And since lower Gini index is often the result of a poor country or recession then we should be proud we have success in this country. Romania for example might have lower unemployment (your example above) and they also have lower Gini too! They also have a much higher child deprivation index.

          Also be aware that your complaint is that there is a higher wealth concentration in the UK. The wealth is concentrated in the UK. Would you feel better if these rich people move out of the country? Thats the way France did it, and we gained some wealth from France because of that too!

          1. LDS Silver badge

            Re: "With the lowest unemployment rate in decades?"

            "That would be most countries."

            Actually, it isn't. The troubles come from a small set of countries - just one is big enough to be able to create real issues if it fails, since it is in the Euro. It is true France could become an issue too as it let its debt increase too much. Germany had to cope with reunification in the past. Still most EU countries has a debt which is inferior to the UK one.

            But as you pointed out, people still move (yet, if unemployment is low, where's the problem? It looks they fill jobs that will be unfilled, otherwise) because a simple index won't tell you everything about a country situation - as you tried to do in your original post.

            UK had people going to work in Germany in the '70s. Especially when it destroyed too much of its manufacturing sector, being unable to keep it competitive like Germany did (and even Italy: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Industrial_production_statistics - which explains why Italy is somehow still afloat).

            UK bet on the financial sector - but it concentrated UK wealth (not EU wealth) into a narrower share of the population - ironically mostly that Great London area which voted to stay, while in Northern England the situation doesn't look so good. And more companies could move manufacturing plants away, worsening the situation.

            Attracting foreign wealth is of little use, if it doesn't "trickle down" to a larger share of the population - someone building companies that creates job should be welcome (as long as they also pay taxes too, as employees taxes alone won't be enough to run a welfare state), those just stashing money stolen from their own countries into bank safes while moving them from Panama to Jersey just make a few people in London richer (and again the money will be hidden somewhere...). You can't think that what works for Montecarlo, Cayman or Jersey could work for a sixty million people country.

            It will be interesting to see what will happen once Brexit happens, and those who voted for it will discover it will bring advantages to the same "elites" they hated, and they will still get the breadcrumbs only - exchanging Polish neighbors with Indian ones...

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: "With the lowest unemployment rate in decades?"

              @LDS

              "Actually, it isn't. The troubles come from a small set of countries"

              But most countries burn money to buy votes and as I said France and Germany did it. France also decided to break the rules after the recession and were allowed purely on their importance (and they were back then part of the twin engine of Europe).

              "just one is big enough to be able to create real issues if it fails, since it is in the Euro"

              Greece alone would have bankrupted the ECB (so I hear) which is probably why they bought Greece and made private loan losses a public loss, but also vasalised Greece.

              "Still most EU countries has a debt which is inferior to the UK one."

              And huge economic problems.

              I dont see much else in your post but some complaining.

      4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: @iron

        "With the lowest unemployment rate in decades?"

        Every economic analysis I read about this links it with static wages and failure to invest because it's cheaper to employ people rather than invest in more productive plant. Productivity is static or falling and GDP is failing to rise. A current article on the Beeb website calls it the lost decade. In short, it's nothing to celebrate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47826195

        But hey, what do economists know? They're only experts and haven't realised the glorious future that awaits when wage inflation everywhere else reduces us to a low wage economy and Chinese manufacturers set up sweatshops here because it's cheaper than any SE Asian country.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: @iron

          @Doctor Syntax

          "Every economic analysis I read about this links it with static wages and failure to invest because it's cheaper to employ people rather than invest in more productive plant"

          So what your saying is the EU is is such dire and abysmal shape that they cant even do that?!!? So we have historically low unemployment unlike the EU proper which is really struggling? We should be grateful to be leaving that.

          "Productivity is static or falling and GDP is failing to rise."

          I hear this is a European problem where even Germany (what is left of the twin engine of europe) cant even grow.

          "A current article on the Beeb website calls it the lost decade. In short, it's nothing to celebrate"

          Until of course you have something to compare it against. Think about it, we currently have uncertainty over the vote to leave vs the politicians desiring we remain and we are now at this stage after the worst global recession. Compare that to the EU that nearly sunk under the recession, that destroyed member economies just to survive, almost fell into deflation and is in a much worse state than we are. Maybe if the uncertainty caused by trying to remain was removed we would be in a better situation.

          "They're only experts and haven't realised the glorious future that awaits when wage inflation everywhere else reduces us to a low wage economy and Chinese manufacturers set up sweatshops here because it's cheaper than any SE Asian country."

          Of course China grew out of sweatshops by joining the EU? No. At least Greece, Italy, Spain and so on are so much better after being shafted by the Euro? But you somehow fear that having access to the world instead of what the EU allows will turn us into some poor communist country. Well at least your honest its about such fear instead of a rational reason.

          1. LDS Silver badge

            "even Germany (what is left of the twin engine of europe) cant even grow"

            Unemployment in EU is very different:

            https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Unemployment_statistics

            You have countries like Italy, Spain and Greece (France somewhat too) with historically high unemployment (but those numbers don't take into account illegal employment - historically high in Southern Italy, for example), and others with historically low unemployment rates.

            The actual low growth is a problem create exactly by stagnating wages in most of the Western world. USA has the same issue, for the matter. Germany relied too much on exports, and as exports decreased, Germany slowed down too. Yet countries like Germany have space to move, thanks to a sound financial situation.

            "destroyed member economies just to survive"

            Actually, those economies had systematic issues that the recession heightened, and didn't crash before just thank to the EU sustaining them with low interests on borrowing, and shielding them from imported inflation, which in turn didn't put pressure on wages.

            For example Italy issues were fully created in the '80s (when debt soared from 56% to 101%, and taxes as well to pay for interests), well before Maastricht. Remember nobody was forced to join the Euro - and the rules were well known. But some hoped to get the advantages without the disadvantages - more or less the "Brexit attitude", before Brexit.

            Just bad politicians prefer to pretend the past never happened, and all the bad guys are EU foreigners only...

            For example once again Italy instead of putting expenses under control decided to spend even more in pure electoral interests. In turn citizens very worried about new and even higher taxes which will probably come soon to avoid a default don't spend, nor wages increases.

            Greece wasn't better. Mistakes were made to solve the situation, but Greeks were looking for an "having the cake and eat it" solution just like UK still dream for Brexit, which is an added another layer of uncertainty.

            But actually the fact that the EU Central Bank could avoid the worse demonstrated the strength of the system, not vice versa. But as Draghi said, most other polices are in the hands of governments and their politicians, and all of them demonstrated to be interested only in short-term electoral gains, and even more so in countries that needed most long-term solutions.

            "Of course China grew out of sweatshops by joining the EU?"

            What did you smoke? Maybe the same opium UK forced the Chinese to use to expand its business?

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: "even Germany (what is left of the twin engine of europe) cant even grow"

              @LDS

              "You have countries like Italy, Spain and Greece (France somewhat too) with historically high unemployment (but those numbers don't take into account illegal employment - historically high in Southern Italy, for example), and others with historically low unemployment rates."

              Add the decimation by the Euro and the situation is worse.

              "The actual low growth is a problem create exactly by stagnating wages in most of the Western world."

              This of course being a huge problem. When the recession hit the UK and US responded to it and bounced out of recession. The EU fell into the recession choosing not to do anything and almost hitting deflation. EU growth should be stonking as they try to catch up. Instead the EU is filled with zombie businesses that are holding it back. The EU is a large area and with increasing protectionism of the EU and US.

              "and didn't crash before just thank to the EU sustaining them with low interests on borrowing"

              I am going to contrast that with your previous line- "Yet countries like Germany have space to move, thanks to a sound financial situation.". So the EU put them into an unsound financial situation by lending to countries with systemic problems? And the actual factual problem was the private debt which would have been defaulted on, saving those very countries, wasnt allowed because of the EU. The EU wouldnt pay the debt of the EU currency. And instead the EU bought the debt, buying the capitulation of Greece and sinking economies.

              "Remember nobody was forced to join the Euro - and the rules were well known"

              And broken by France and Germany so worth about as much as the agreement from the EU not to use the UK contribution to bail out Greece (the Euro).

              "Mistakes were made to solve the situation, but Greeks were looking for an "having the cake and eat it" solution"

              Is that the train set from the EU funds that will never pay for itself? Didnt Poland go with large airports to service small populations?

              "But actually the fact that the EU Central Bank could avoid the worse demonstrated the strength of the system, not vice versa."

              Actually it didnt. That the UK and US bounced out of recession and the EU sank almost into deflation, by actively choosing to not do anything, shows the failure of the ECB. The Euro only barely survived and is still in the very uncertain territory.

              "What did you smoke? Maybe the same opium UK forced the Chinese to use to expand its business?"

              I am not sure where you are stuck? Is it the sarcasm? The amusement that China didnt join the EU yet grew massively taking a large portion of their population out of poverty through the implementation of capitalism?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "All the multinationals will be doing this, they have no choice.

      Welcome to unemployed and unemployable Britain, it's what YOU voted for!"

      Yes, the multinationals, based to totally foreign climes, really put food on my table.

      Considering they have paid peanuts here for years, what difference would there be??

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Considering they have paid peanuts here for years, what difference would there be??"

        Even fewer peanuts to go around?

      2. eldakka Silver badge

        Whether they paid taxes or not, they do employ people who receive a wage to live on and pay taxes on. When they leave, that element will be lost.

        Less jobs means more people on benefits and less people paying income tax and consumption taxes.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't like it LEAVE

      This was actually what BREXIT was about, they don't want all the blowins that have flooded the country and destroyed it and its culture over the past few decades.

      1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

        The Culture is destroyed?!? No more Emmerdale???!!!!

        I am devastated. The country I have live in for many decades and which still looks the same to me has, before my unseeign eyes, been entirely transformed, at least culturally. Oh noes! Four shelves of Polish food in Sainsburys to go with the four shelves of Kosher food in the same saimsbury's and a nice section og Indian specialties and even a few things for West Indians. And then there's the 'freefrom' section.

        I see now that this country is a hollow mockery of its former self.

  6. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    TL;DR

    We're fucked

    1. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      Re: TL;DR

      We were F*CKED when Google decided to ignore its "dont be evil" mantra.

      I vote Googexit!

  7. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge

    Google didn't provide an on-record response

    Where can I register to receive the off-the-record response this hints at?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Don't tell anyone but it was "Well, what did you expect us to do?"

  8. taxedserf

    For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

    Erm... if a stable business environment is what you seek, then Eire is an odd choice. Something else is up. Brexit is perhaps a catalyst - a golden opportunity, even - but it doesn't smell like a root cause.

    Google picked Eire years ago because it was, and always has been, a corrupt, push-over state, offering low(ish) corporation tax rates and a tax treaty with America that ensures America has the lion's share of taxable revenue.... which America duly chooses not to tax (much to the chagrin of the European Union, see http://www.brexit.me.uk/2016/09/european-commission-v-republic-of.html ). Meanwhile, even America has (partially) signed up to the BEPS project, a tax anti-avoidance thing which aims to prevent taxable revenue from simply evaporating into thin air (the taxman's equivalent of nailing jelly to the ceiling).

    This is the most likely explanation behind Google's move, so much so that it would very likely still have happened even if if the UK had Brexited with the only issue-literate plan out there - EFTA/EEA as described in Flexcit ( http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf ) - or had voted to remain on 23Jun2016. Ironically, in the briefest glimpses of issue-literacy, HMG seems to have thwarted Google's plans (and Eire's not-quite-taxable-revenues and America's we-can-but-won't-taxable-revenues!) by wondering aloud about revenue-based taxation of internet services delivered to UK-based customers. Ouch.

    Thinking ahead, has anybody thought about the impact on Eire of Brexit, whether planned or unplanned? (Judging from other comments in this forum, probably not.) From Google's perspective, Brexit will distress Eire considerably, especially if Brexit results in the UK leaving the European Economic Area.

    That makes Eire even more attractive to a cabal of American mega-corporations, because the push-over state wouldn't even need pushing: it'll roll over before being asked. The aforementioned "shed on an allotment" will be taken down pronto, probably replaced by a small kennel to comply figuratively with GDPR.

    What else has happened to corroborate this story? Well, Merkel popped over to Eire earlier this week to see whether there was another way to thwart Brexit, to stop it from happening and to destroy permanently the pitiful residue of democracy in the UK (to bail out the UK's astonishingly inept political establishment). Merkel learnt that Eire does not want to pay a Eurocent to protect the EU's external land border with a third country. This underlines Google's view that Eire is an already-distressed state that is set to become an even more distressed state.

    Oh, and the European Commission keeps on wanting to slap fines on Google. Well, the European Council might have something to say about that. The European Council comprises governments of the EU27. One of whom is... Eire. Ah. And the government of Eire is - and will be - too weak to resist corporatism on its own turf. Eire will be ready to assume the doubled-over position to collect its instructions anally from its corporate masters and influence the European Council away from the fanaticism of the European Commission.

    Always attack your enemy on its weakest front, at its weakest point. Google has found Eire's destiny.

    Google's timing to re-locate trade from UK to Eire is absolutely immaculate. Google has struck at the iron at its hottest point in time.

    Brexit is perhaps a catalyst - a golden opportunity, even - but it doesn't smell like a root cause. QED.

    1. Gareth Douglas

      Re: For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

      Lovely story. Except EU is moving to a model of IT service companies paying tax on profits based on the country in which the service is utilised, as opposed to where the Org is headquartered. The process of moving to that model is in full swing. BTW it's not just internet-based advertising and sales Orgs like Google moving across the Irish channel, plenty of other financial/pharma and other industries want to ensure a presence in the EU.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

        Pharma companies in the UK who want to market medicines in the EU post Brexit need an actual office with an EU registered company in an EU country with actual people in it. They can subcontract company functions from that office to EU-based companies but they still need someone and not just a letter drop, brassplate or website and email redirect.

        1. JimBob01

          Re: For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

          Pre-Brexit the EMA was based in London and big Pharma has a significant interest in being close to this particular organisation.

          http://www.pharmtech.com/ema-faces-brexit-challenges

          Interestingly, I was talking to a slave trader in AMS a year ago and he was talking about the great opportunities in Pharma, given the EMA has now moved to the Netherlands (currently in Amsterdam). https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/contacts-european-medicines-agency

          1. Nattrash Silver badge
            Boffin

            Re: For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

            Yes, this is true. The Dutch actually played it very cleverly; they sold it (the Dutch Gov chipped in financially and "market-message-wise") to make EMA decide for Holland, even though there is no building, infra structure, nothing. If I remember well, facilities won't be finished until 2022 or something. But, EMA asked their employees, and they (EMA that is) would loose the least if it would be Holland. Meanwhile MHRA at Canary Warf can start renting out rooms.

            The same goes for medical devices BTW. UK based notified bodies were THE place to be for outside manufacturers. However now, they all moved offices to the EU (e.g. BSI= NL, UL= DE, InterTek = SE) so they can remain relevant and do business. As for the remark here on the "EU regulatory representation": that was always already a possibility. There is a provision which is called "Authorised Representative" that can help with that. It is a regulatory person, located in the EU, (TLDR;) taking care of business and the responsibility. This can also be a distributor (taking care of products of other outside EU businesses). So, bottom line, pharma/ medev companies DON'T have to move over to EU, but they do. Reasoning I get back from companies who (I help) doing this properly, is that it is mainly to ensure continuation, and that the UK is becoming a "too small a territory after Brexit to invest in significantly". (Don't kill the messenger please...)

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: For Google, Brexit makes Eire a golden opportunity

      "Google picked Eire years ago because it was, and always has been, a corrupt, push-over state, offering low(ish) corporation tax rates and a tax treaty with America that ensures America has the lion's share of taxable revenue"

      It's amazing how many times we have to say this and yet it doesn't sink in...

      If you are a smallish country you it's a brilliant move to have low corporation taxes. It brings in big corporates who can recognise their profits in your country paying less tax that they would elsewhere but still bringing in a very good tax take in relation to the size of your country.

      For multinationals taxation is a global market and small countries have a huge advantage by being able to keep tax low. That's what you're seeing in Ireland, Luxembourg etc.

      It has the additional advantage that home-grown businesses also have the same lower tax rates which enables them to be more competitive abroad.

      It's not being a corrupt, push-over state, it's a smart move taking advantage of their particular situation.

  9. Gareth Douglas

    Yummy yummy

    Google, Amazon, Facebook and a huge swathe of pharma, financial and other tech Orgs are all ramping up their data centres and other capacities in Ireland, with it being the only native-English speaking country left in Europe & retaining Customs & GDPR alignment with EU after Brexit. Ironically for us Irish, it's only bricks and mortar residential housing in Dublin region which could scuttle our runaway exchequer returns and employment levels. Great time to be working in IT here, filling our boots we are. Cheers mates!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yummy yummy

      As long as you like sitting in beanbags and spying on innocents while ignoring Googles questionable employment practices and internal working environment, enjoy.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Moving to Ireland instead of a mainstream EU country eh? Nothing to do with the extremely generous TAX treatment you get in Ireland, hey Google????

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      That might be the reason for choosing Ireland instead of for example France, but not the reason for leaving the UK.

    2. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Mainstream EU country?

      Ireland seems like a pretty mainstream EU country from here (Dublin).

      Would you care to list your criteria, or give a list of who's mainstream and who's alternative for EU?

  11. Tezfair

    What I hope for...

    Once we get out of the EU and in control of our taxes, we can poach bigcorp back to our waters with favorable - eg, lower CT that Eire. Whilst we might make a loss on some taxes, by virtue of employing people the gov would recover that tax through PAYE / NI / VAT (on the basis that if more people are emploted there's more disposable income)

    After all, being in control of 'our' countries finances was probably the key reason for people voting to break away from Brussels.

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: What I hope for...

      Yes, low taxes will attract companies selling services to...who?

      If you base in the UK you're limited to the UK market, which is big, but not as big as the EU.

      Basing in Ireland may result in higher taxes (France has lower corporate tax rates than Ireland AFTER taking advantage of all the available tax breaks and refunds but you need a team of expensive French lawyers and accountants to keep on top of those whereas Irish corporate tax rates are simple and transparent and haven't changed for decades) but means you can trade freely and recruit from the entire continent.

    2. llaryllama

      Re: What I hope for...

      It's not just services, a huge volume of goods were passing in and out of the UK as an easy and efficient door to get into EU free circulation. Doesn't matter how low your taxes are or how good the ports are, without the EU connection it's worth nowt. UK had some of the fastest sea routes possible into Europe from the far East via Felixstowe, all that business is now being moved to Ireland and the Netherlands due to attractive import tax deferral schemes.

  12. llaryllama

    UK ballsed it up and other countries have pounced

    I work for a medium sized company that used to have a UK office with a handful of people managing imports from outside the EU. We were paying a decent amount of UK tax despite not even being a UK company. There are at minimum tens of thousands of companies like ours that used the UK as a convenient gateway into Europe.;

    The Netherlands, Ireland and Estonia all understood this and quietly started actively poaching companies like ours. NL's approach was most impressive, they have a government team physically touring small and medium sized companies in east Asia to pitch NL as a potential new EU home and setting people up with NL service suppliers.

    We ended up moving to Ireland a few months after Brexit was confirmed - now Ireland gets the tax, Irish staff get employed and Irish suppliers get to sell us stuff.

    I don't really care about Brexit beyond the mechanics of organizing this move, but as a relative outsider it seems like a real dumb arsed decision by half the UK population.

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