Romford Station, smile! You're in London cops' final facial recog 'trial' London cops' controversial public trial of facial recognition technology is coming to an end this week in Romford – and campaigners hope it will be the last time the force uses the kit. The Metropolitan Police have been using automated facial recognition (AFR) technology since 2016, but its decision to do so in the absence of …
Given the plod's continuing abuse of the DNA data they've collected and refused to delete, is anyone expecting anything other than Stazi levels of boots stomping on faces forever.
Hold on, if the boots are stomping on the faces, doesn't that ruin the facial recognition?
News from the frontline...
[...]
Ms Carlo, who was monitoring Thursday’s trial in Romford, London, told The Independent she saw a plainclothed police officer follow the man before a group of officers “pulled him over to one side”.
She said they demanded to see the man’s identification, which he gave them, and became “accusatory and aggressive”.
“The guy told them to p*** off and then they gave him the £90 public order fine for swearing,” Ms Carlo added. “He was really angry.”
[...]
Monitors saw several other people stopped outside Romford station, in north east London, including a student who had pulled his hood up and a man handcuffed and put in a police van.
[...]
“We continue to engage with many different stakeholders, some who actively challenge our use of this technology.”
"Is that even legal?"
Yes, but they can't demand you comply legally, then can only ask politely. If you've not been arrested, you are under no obligation to provide anything and if you are arrested then you have the right to remain silent.
You can be stopped and searched if you are arrested, if the officer believes you are engaged or are about to engage in a crime and they have reasonable cause for suspicion (PACE 1996), or if they believe you may be engaged in an act of terrorism, planning an act of terrorism, or gathering information likely to be of use to a terrorist organisation (s.44 & s.45 of the anti-terrorism bill).
Here's a quick guide from UK.GOV :
https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights
The mistake the fella made was to swear at the officer. Be calm and polite. Insist on your rights. Always ask what section and paragraph they are acting under. Always ask to speak to a superior officer even if that means going to the station.
problem with being "calm and polite", apart from the fact that I wish to tell them to (...) and mind their own business is, that, being calm and polite does not _guarantee_ that they let you go. Do they not have a vague (pure coincidence) powers to stop and arrest anyone based on "reasonable grounds", or you "acting suspiciously"? And sure, you are welcome to spend the next 5 years in courts (guess, who's going to pay for your time and for legal advice?), and - in the end, prove that the grounds were NOT reasonable, and you were NOT acting suspiciously (despite officers' witnessess, fellow officers, claiming that you did act suspiciously, by hiding your face, which means, in general, that you have something to hide, so they had reasonable ground to stop you and arrest you). You will win - MAYBE. In the meantime, having been calm and polite, despite POs view that you acted aggressively and suspicious (what's that grunt and sulk, eh?), you would have been taken to the station, and they would have calmly and politely requested a DNA sample (bye-bye sample, hello DNA database) and your mugshot (bye-bye... hello...) and you can then spend another 5 years in courts trying (succeeding?) to have those images and samples destroyed. Go ahead, be calm and polite...
Go ahead, be calm and polite...
Being angry and rude will only ever raise the odds of all the adverse consequences you suggest. Polite and calm will never raise the odds of that. It's a simple choice. It's no guarantee, of course, but it's a really simple choice.
"Sorry Sarge, I ain't nicking this one - he was really angry and rude towards me and I'm too scared" Sorry, but that ain't a thing.
The mistake the fella made was to swear at the officer. Be calm and polite.
This, in every interaction. Anything else you do will end less well for you than this.
Insist on your rights. Always ask what section and paragraph they are acting under. Always ask to speak to a superior officer even if that means going to the station.
This bit you might want to be more careful about. It only takes one arrest to permenantly muck up your elligibility for a whole host of visa waiver programmes that may or may not impact upon your future employment opportunities. (I've posted before about various proxies for "are you criminal?" and visa waiver programmes are one of the best).
It's not that I disagree with Baernard's sentiment or world view on this, by the way, only that this part of his advice may have uninetended and life long consequences.
Wait for the new law that will make warning people that a face scanning operation is in place ahead of them an illegal act - much like warning motorists that a speed tarp is ahead is.
Parliament should call a stop to the whole thing until some agreed operational rules are established.
Monitors saw several other people stopped outside Romford station, in north east London, including a student who had pulled his hood up and a man handcuffed and put in a police van.
Just carry a Burka for such occasions. I really really can't see them stopping people in the street and removing their cultural face coverings.
indeed, and while the day was over at the register, the show went on "live", last night :(
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/facial-recognition-cameras-technology-london-trial-met-police-face-cover-man-fined-a8756936.html
if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, sonny. And if you dare to defy us and cover your face, fuck, I'm sure there's a way to make you see resistance if futile...
is anyone expecting anything other than Stazi levels of boots stomping on faces forever.
Given the seeming prevelance of people publishing their own face, name, vague location etc via Farcebook et al, the police could probably refresh a database of cache public information with a few api calls or a bit of puppeteer/selenium/other.
I'd imagine it'd generate a fresher dataset than simply using mugshots of criminals and other arrestees.
An authoritarian's wet dream. The fact that it's nearly always wrong doesn't matter at all, it's still providing "reasonable grounds" to harass and detain people.
A cynic, of which I am certainly not one, might even think that an ability discriminate leaves such people quite disinterested, because their real aim is to create a climate of ever rising fearfulness.
Striking a positive note, I am currently developinig Automatic Physiognomic Security Systems (APSS). These do away with the tedious and inaccurate recognition of individuals, instead concentrating on the type of person scanned. Those identified as having criminal physiognomy will then automatically be shot, and a clean up request put in to Street Cleaning.
I can offer an entry level system with two cameras, a pair of servo controlled rifles and an autodialler set to initiate clean-up for a mere £1bn.
I'm not in London, I'm in THE US. And frankly, do not understand people's concern. may be with the exception of wasting tax money. All your faces are in ID/passport etc. systems. All your faces have been captured on various security cameras. recorded and saved and kept for long time. So, what is your "privacy" concern over guys playing hi-tech toy with low level of success? Liberty and overall liberals' politically motivated speculations when nothing wrong happened and will not? Anybody detained, behind bars?
As I always said being CISSP - do not expect any privacy when you are in public space, do not use Internet if you are worry about you freedom rights, do not encrypt email as it is useless. Only people who have something to hide should worry about stupid hi-tech toys. Ask guys for your picture and have a fun!
Don't exercise your rights if you're worried about claiming said rights?!?
Remind us which 3 letter agency abuser of people's rights do you work for again?
Land of the free (sic) lecturing the UK on how we should just bend over and accept KGB-like surveillance. Unbelievable.
[Quote]Only people who have something to hide should worry about stupid hi-tech toys. Ask guys for your picture and have a fun![/Quote]
So when they come to fit a camera to your living room, to your bathroom and to your bedroom, you will of course allow them, as you have nothing to hide!
1984 was supposed to be a WARNING
NOT a feckin INSTRUCTION BOOK FFS
it has also been said that George would maybe not have been surprised at the levels of intrusion into peoples private lives, but would be more concerned that we are happy to buy the cameras ourselves :o(
Will be considered to be "Perverting the Course of Justice", for which could mean life in prison!
Drivers who use lasers to defeat speed cameras are so charged, though the sentences are not likely to be that long. How does 8 months sound: https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/laser-jammer-prison/
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