back to article HCL picks up Notes, spanks total of $1.8bn at Honest John's IBM software sale

Indian software outfit HCL Technologies is snapping up $1.8bn worth of IBM's software in a deal expected to close by the middle of 2019. The acquisition, worth just under 5 per cent of a RedHat in IBM parlance, will see the Uttar Pradesh-based company absorb secure app platform Appscan and device manager BigFix. On-premises …

  1. Jove Bronze badge

    Sales Person of the Year

    Bye heck, a true Cloggie.

    Finding someone to buy all that cr*p is the outstanding achievement of the year - the selling curried muck to India.

    1. tfewster

      Re: Sales Person of the Year

      BigFix is an InfoSec and sysadmins wet dream, and should have been a huge seller. Let's hope HCL don't screw it up.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sales Person of the Year

        BigFix is just 30 years old Tivoli renamed. And it was always not any wet dream but pure nightmare to support.It looks good only in marketing presentations.

        1. Slabfondler

          Re: Sales Person of the Year

          Um, no it isn't - IBM bought the company and the product and re-branded it as Tivoli, then reversed the branding a few years later. It is *not* Tivoli software at all, trust me.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Sales Person of the Year

            Had a little experience with BigFix (pretty good patch management software prior to being parked in software limbo by IBM) and Unica (again parked by IBM but was told it had pretty unique features that were valued before Salesforce came along).

            The inclusion of Notes/Domino must have meant the original asking price was upwards of $5b...

            At least there’s a vague chance of HCL improving the products rather than leaving them in limbo.

          2. Jove Bronze badge

            Re: Sales Person of the Year

            Whatever their former merits, these products are in or moving to their EoL phase.

            The change of ownership will likely see emphasis placed on maximising license revenues rather than any significant re-working of the products.

  2. tip pc Silver badge

    Looks like Mays Brexit deal

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Tip PC Nope... nothing like Brexit

      A friend who works for the Borg told me how much profit they make off of these old products.

      You collect the license/maintenance fee while you spend little on break fix maintenance and no R&D on new features. Big money maker...

      The only reason IBM will sell off these products is that they don't believe that they have much more life in them and need to switch their portfolio to newer tech aka Cloud, Kubernetes, and analytics where they can attempt to sell at a premium and stay relevant.

      HCL (Hmmm a lot like HAL) see this as a way to continue to capture revenue and entry into customers to sell other products and services. Sort of like buying that used car so you can drive for Uber.

      The truth is that it makes sense, but the numbers do not. Well maybe.

      IBM is counting on being able to switch customer from old products to new products while HCL is betting that customers will hang on to legacy apps longer and that the move will be slower.

      Also that they can then morph the platforms in to something new.

      Platinum Software did this back in the 90's and made a fortune.

      Time will tell.

      Posted anon, for the Obvious reasons.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Tip PC Nope... nothing like Brexit

        Your summary of IBMs software acquisition management is 90% accurate - the only thing missing is the increases in maintenance to drive away all but the most dependent customers.

        The challenge with this approach is that the rapid change in client OSes and drive to improve security that has a habit of breaking these apps push customers to alternative solutions.

        I’d be surprised if IBM are counting on anything other than the money in the bank for this...

      2. Jove Bronze badge

        Re: @Tip PC Nope... nothing like Brexit

        I don't think there is anything controversial in what you say.

        One aside I would make is that SUSE Linux previously went through one of these spring-cleaning sales and look how much it went for in the recent sale.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pretty sure I can infer that no one in HCL ever had to use Notes

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge

      Pretty sure they all will have to soon

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Ken 16 - That would be cruelty

        You don't do this to your fellow men/women. They are living beings after all.

        1. ROC

          Re: @Ken 16 - That would be cruelty

          Well, a few years back, I found switching from older, but in-house LN, to remote Outlook to be even uglier.

        2. Ken 16 Silver badge

          Re: @Ken 16 - That would be cruelty

          When I were a lad, we went from cc mail to Notes 4 and we were glad of it!

          1. Jove Bronze badge

            Re: @Ken 16 - That would be cruelty

            Quick! Someone call a Doctor.

  4. spold Silver badge

    Seasonal cheer

    Stuffing the slightly smelly turkey among the christmas goodies - sorry! you have to take the lot - all or nothing. Phew! (removes big blue clothes-peg).

  5. Alistair

    farewell lotus notes

    I forsee an obituary in the next 18 months

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: farewell lotus notes

      In 18 months?

      It died years ago, it’s just IBM refused to pay for the funeral... Two major releases in ~10 years (I’m being generous including v10 as it’s only been out a few months) for a product that had features its major competitors included 15+ years ago and shedding customers at the rate of around 5 million a year and are now down to around 30m worldwide with about 50% paying maintenance although I suspect a big chunk of those users are on an alternative mail platform...

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Never Got To Grips with Notes....

    Long ago and far away, in a Big Six firm, I quite liked the Notes training. When I got back to my office, I started looking for useful Notes "databases". My employer had built hundreds of them, many of them potentially useful. That was...until I found that each useful database had a different administrator, and needed a separate sign on and login for each and every one. I gave up after a couple of I can't say today whether Notes was useful or not. Clearly not useful to me!

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Re: Never Got To Grips with Notes....

      > That was...until I found that each useful database had a different administrator, and needed a separate sign on and login for each and every one.

      Your lack of initiative is quite disappointing. You should have used your newly acquired skills to create a password manager database, in Notes.

    2. Col Smithies

      Re: Never Got To Grips with Notes....

      "until I found that each useful database had a different administrator, and needed a separate sign on and login for each and every one."

      Having worked with Notes for 20 years I can honestly say it's not necessary to have a "separate sign on" for each database. I've never heard it recommended and I've never come across any organisation that has imposed such a crazy idea on their users.

    3. DrFierce

      Re: Never Got To Grips with Notes....

      The authentication is handled via the Notes ID and you authenticate when you load the Notes client. That's it. No login required after that (unless you have a needlessly complicated environment, but that's a different story).

      The databases have an access control list and different levels of access. There is a Manager access level, but Manager != Administrator. Most of well-maintained ACLs use user groups, so no need most of the time to go an deal with the ACL itself.

      Thought this had to be said because what you describe and the reality of Notes' security seem to be two different things. Also, is it too late for a refund for that Notes training? I don't think they provide a good service.

    4. PaDuOne

      Re: Never Got To Grips with Notes....

      You were either using something else then Notes or whoever setup the environment for you had maybe just one more Notes training then you had :). One of the biggest strengths of Notes was easy control of access based on roles and groups. Trained monkey could have set it up with few clicks. There are no 'logins'. You only 'login' to Notes client once and you can then access any Domino server that is able to recognize you. Actually that login is nothing more then password for so called notes id file which is actually certificate that holds all necessary information about you (same as the certs some ppl are using to access eg bank accounts or sign/encrypt the mail). That was all built-in more then 20 years ago in Notes and only thing that was making ppl mad was poor UI that did not improved much over those 20 years. They tried to suit up Notes by using Java/html/css etc but at the core the poor UI was still there. Even Domino designer ment for developers did not get much options for customization however even non-programmer could easily start programming workflows and apps (and on user level you are able to do lot of stuff and automation using lotus script).

      Btw. Notes DBs are actually first NoSQL databases...

    5. Endor

      Re: Never Got To Grips with Notes....

      You obviously have not heard of Full Access Administration !

      Before you go slagging a product off, try and learn it to give an educated point of view.

      On a Domino server under security there is a field called "Full Access Administrators" if you add your self here, you will have manager access to every database on the server regardless of Database ACL.

      To use it once you have connected to the Domino server via an Admin client select the top tab Administration, from the drop down list select "Full Access Administration" this will switch it on.

      Once it is on, you can then if you want select all the databases on the server and add yourself with manager access.

  7. petef

    My company had a recent meeting of all employees as we are in the midst of a merger. A spontaneous cheer went up when it was announced that we were dumping Notes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Is that for email? The company I work for announced they were dumping Notes in 2007. Eleven years later, we are still using many Notes applications.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Probably going to happen here too. Us techies deliberately ask "what about all the Notes databases/apps?" with a smile on our face when management-types try and convince us that moving to Office 365 is a good idea.

  8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Maybe they're planning to make it work.

  9. Erik4872

    I doubt any tears will be shed for Notes

    My medium-sized multinational company just got rid of Notes 2 years ago...for email. There are still some business-critical functions carried out via workflows embedded in Notes databases. But I'm sure the owners have spent this time rebuilding them...I hope...

    I can't believe it's managed to hang on this long. I never really liked it, but in the dial-up days it was very handy to be able to take your entire mailbox with you and work offline as if you were connected. Outlook didn't get that for ages. The positive thing is that now that's in the hands of some Indian outsourcing firm, we're never going to see any NEW deployments. Maybe that will finally be the thing to kill it...just keeping it on life support for the one or two holdouts.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      "Now that's in the hands of some Indian outsourcing firm"...

      ... will they change the hieroglyphics to some Kamasutra images?

  10. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

    Do IBM,...

    ... still use Notes as their internal mail platform?

    I used to use 'BigFix' when I was Blue, it was a buy in, originally called BigFix, then renamed to Tivoli Endpoint Manager, then IBM Endpoint Managed, then IBM BigFix, and i guess now, HCL BigFix.

    Odd for IBM to sell tools it uses internally, sure they'll rake in some dough, but end up paying via licenses, Wikipedia reckons Big Blue still has ~366,000 employees, That's a lot of revenue for HCL.

    1. Stephen McLaughlin

      Re: Do IBM,...

      They do use Notes internally. I know several IBM salespeople that complain about it regularly.

    2. DrFierce

      Re: Do IBM,...

      The folks at IBM use the Cloud version for Mail (SmartCloud Notes, which is Verse on Mobile devices) and there is a mix of on-premises use as well as cloud-based use (the latter through DAC/SoftLayer). Not sure I heard anyone complain about all this.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Do IBM,...

      Odd for IBM to sell tools it uses internally, sure they'll rake in some dough, but end up paying via licenses, Wikipedia reckons Big Blue still has ~366,000 employees, That's a lot of revenue for HCL.

      One joke had it that IBM bought Lotus because their Notes servers were down...

  11. SVV

    That's a lot of notes for Notes

    Reading this reminder that this thing is still alive, a horrible thought occurred to me and I had to see if it might be true. And yes, there are Android and iOS apps available for Notes. Did not want to investigate any further in case it brought back too many memories of when I last had to use it, 20 years ago this year in fact.

    1. Col Smithies

      Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

      "Did not want to investigate any further in case it brought back too many memories of when I last had to use it, 20 years ago this year in fact."

      that's like saying you don't like Windows because Windows 98 was awful

      1. Danny 14

        Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

        but windows 10 IS awful

      2. James Anderson

        Re Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

        Except the awful notes UI has not changed much in the last 20 years.

        Windows got better 98 -> NT -> XP

        The flatlined -> Windows 7

        The downhill -> Windows 8

        Followed by a crash dive that would impress a herd of lemmings --> Windows 10

        1. Mage Silver badge

          Re: Re That's a lot of notes for Notes

          Win98 was parallel to NT 4, not really a forerunner of XP. Different kinds of things.

          Win 95 parallel to NT3.5

          Win 3.11 was parallel to NT 3.1 which was the first NT in 1993 (There was an MS version of OS/2 in 1989 with LAN manager for DOS/ Windows)

          ME (Arrrgh) was sort of parallel to NT 5.0 known as Win 2000

          ME was the last development of the Windows GUI loaded after booting DOS. (Win 1, 2, 286, 386 all poor, Win 3.0 nearly there, Win 3.1 first reasonable version of the GUI)

          XP was NT 5.1

          Server 2003 or maybe Itanium XP 64 Pro* or maybe x86-64 XP Pro was NT 5.2

          Vista was NT 6.0. The Itanium 64 bit XP was killed off early!

          Win 7 was really a SP, or something of Vista. It was NT 6.1

          Win8 should never have existed and inexplicably was NT 6.2, so must have mostly been a crazy change to the Desktop.

          Win 9 didn't exist because of stupid programmers checking for a stupid string like 9* instead of functionality.

          Win10 should be NT 7.0, but they had Windows 7 already. Besides Apple stayed at Version 10 after OS 9, since March 2001 and MS wants to copy Apple, Adobe and Google. Hence every new version of NT will be now Windows 10 and NT 10.

          (*There was a 64 bit version of NT4.0 for Alpha. NT at one stage supported x86, Pentium Pro (win9x ran bad on Pentium Pro because it ran 16bit natively, NT used WOW and NTVDM), MIPS, Power PC, 32 bit Alpha. Unlike Win3.1/Win9x/WinME, NT never ran DOS or 16 bit Windows code natively but on a NTVDM with all Win16 APIs mapped to 32 bit Windows (WOW).)

          1. Jove Bronze badge

            Re: Re That's a lot of notes for Notes

            ... and I assume you wrote that while waiting for your Windows 10 slab to boot.

      3. Chris King

        Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

        Notes and Windows have both evolved, but sadly not in the "awesome superpowers" sort of way.

        1. ROC

          Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

          "mutated" might be more apt...

    2. DrFierce

      Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

      Wow. Hopefully you're not an IT person. I've been in the business for 20+ years and I've never had a product scar me psychologically that I didn't want to see what improvements occurred with different versions, even when looking at Internet Exploder...

      1. SVV

        Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

        Colonel Smithies : joined today, 2 posts bigging up Notes and criticising naysayers.

        DrFierce : joined today, 7 posts bigging up Notes and criticising naysayers.

        20 years experience and you thought we might not catch such amateurishness?

        1. Ken 16 Silver badge

          Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

          I wouldn't say anything hugely positive about Notes under my own name either

    3. PaDuOne

      Re: That's a lot of notes for Notes

      There are ANY 'real' Notes apps for Android nor iOS. The Notes client doesn't exist for these platforms as far as I know...

  12. IGnatius T Foobar !

    Is anyone still running Bloated Goats?

    Overly complex, not well-suited to the task people are using it for, badly supported by the vendor ... pick any three.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I will take note that Notes has been offloaded ..... again.

    Notes always promised a lot but was too laborious to setup/use quickly.

    Perfect example of a piece of software predicated on 'User lock-in'.

    By time you had it setup to do something useful, it was too costly to consider ever moving off it.

    I expect the few remaining users will be finally looking to move elsewhere.

    Lots of paying work for anyone who knows Notes and is tasked with migrating systems elsewhere :)

    Probably another thing Crapita could do at a bargain price ;)

    1. DrFierce

      Re: I will take note that Notes has been offloaded ..... again.

      Time to setup a Domino server, including creating server, admin and user IDs: 5 minutes. Another five for a decent web server configuration. Add another five minute to setup the client. There you go: 15 minutes and I've got a decent client/server setup and can do pretty much what I want. But ok, 15 minutes can be long for some folks... Remind me how quickly you can set up an Exchange and Sharepoint server to (not nearly) do the same thing?

      It's costly to move off of it because despite what Microsoft says, it's not a simple process to go from the Notes format to the Exchange/Outlook format (Microsoft has been at it for 20 years now? You'd think they would have sorted that out by now). Also, you are still far, far away from parity with regards to applications, development, etc... Microsoft has also been working on this for a long time, you'd also think they'd have that sorted out by now...

  14. Cavehomme_

    Why all the hate?

    I've been using Outlook for nearly 19 years and prior to that Notes. When I moved job and transferred from Notes to Outlook, I could not believe how poor Outlook was, not much better than Outlook Express yet with those awful .pst files and profiles that always became quickly corrupted. Not much better these days in terms of functionality nor stability..

    Hope HCL can bring Notes up to date and finally give us a real alternative to the Outlook monopoly. While they are at it, would be great if they could brack Lotus Office too!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why all the hate?

      I moved the other way, after my Outlook-using company got acquired by a Notes-infested behemoth. I hate Notes with a passion. I used to hate Outhouse until Notes came along, now I just look at it nostalgically.

      HCL will not be able to or indeed try to improve Notes, because it's impossible, unless you throw away Domino and all the crap that comes with it. They will instead just milk it for support revenue until it finally dies (and probably their last customer will be IBM).

      1. DrFierce

        Re: Why all the hate?

        HCL released Version 10 of Lotus Notes/Domino earlier this year. So improve Notes they have and quite a bit. Now that they have the whole thing as theirs, the updates are going to be even more significant (and a version 11 has already been promised by HCL). So what was your argument again?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why all the hate?

          Not sure why I am bothering engaging with a user who appears to have only just registered specifically to make positive comments about Notes and HCL, but anyway...

          The words pig and lipstick come to mind. It says something when "More accurate results when searching attachments" is listed as a new feature/enhancement.

          HCL can tinker with the UI all they like, but none of it addresses the fundamental problems with the applciation and platform. The UI is deficient and infuriating in myriad ways - this can only be fixed by junking it and starting again; but you can't do that because of the dependencies on all that legacy database application crap. The back end is a fundamental problem because it's not really email software, it's a bad database/applciation that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike an email server. It just doesn't behave right, by design.

          I've heard so many excuses made for it... people aren't not using it right; lack of proper training; don't appreciate its power etc. etc. etc. but at the end of the day it's still shite at what people actually need to use it for: email.

          There's an internal beta in IBM to allow users to use Apple Mail or Outlook (most people have given up on Verse). However, this will still be hobbled by ther back end.

          So I'm sure HCL will carry on polishing that turd for many years, but don't pretend it's going to magically get better just by allowing users to choose a background image for their workspace.

          1. jelabarre59

            Re: Why all the hate?

            The back end is a fundamental problem because it's not really email software, it's a bad database/applciation that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike an email server. It just doesn't behave right, by design.

            I've often suggested the only reason Lotus Notes has email functionality was it was originally meant as nothing more than a DEMO application. Some salesdroids way back when had complained there wasn't a flashy NotesApp they could use to show off it's functionality, so some developer slapped together an email app in a day or two just to shut them up. LN was meant to be a free-form database, but email became the proverbial tail wagging the dog (and excuse the pun there).

          2. jaycee88

            Re: Why all the hate?

            You posted exactly what I was thinking, really appreciate that Anonymous Coward! If we ever cross paths the coffee or adult beverage will be my treat.

      2. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: Why all the hate?

        C'mon guys, do we really need to have Outlook vs Notes argument? There are plenty of reasons to hate both. Equally. Non-discriminatorily. With a fury of thousand suns.


      3. jelabarre59

        Re: Why all the hate?

        I moved the other way, after my Outlook-using company got acquired by a Notes-infested behemoth. I hate Notes with a passion. I used to hate Outhouse until Notes came along, now I just look at it nostalgically.

        It seems to be the situation for both Lotus Notes *and* MS Outlook. The ONLY people who like one of the products are the ones who have had the misfortune of using the other.

        1. Jove Bronze badge

          Re: Why all the hate?

          ... or are paid to post :)

      4. PaDuOne

        Re: Why all the hate?

        You are mixing apples with oranges. Notes is not just simple email / calendar app just like Outlook. If you were using it just for email then yes, it might be pain in the ass. But if you learned to use it it was pretty powerful tool even just for emails. Unfortunately not much user friendly sort of like LaTeX...

    2. Endor

      Re: Why all the hate?

      Hi I totally agree really annoying listening to all this hate on a product when they don't understand it.

      I've been working with Outlook / Exchange and Notes / Domino for over twenty years and know both products at an Expert level and trust me when I say Notes / Domino is superior in every way to Exchange / Outlook , SharePoint , ASP. Net etc.

  15. hellwig

    Notes sold off to Indian Firm, Microsoft twitches... no... it was just the wind

    I interned with the Exchange Server team at Microsoft in the early aughts. They were proud of having won the email and workgroup collaboration war against Notes.

    I have to think these days they don't even recognize it as a competitor anymore.

    1. DrFierce

      Re: Notes sold off to Indian Firm, Microsoft twitches... no... it was just the wind

      Yeah, in the early aughts, Microsoft was also proud of having won the Browser war against Netscape. Remind me how well they are doing now on that front?

  16. Korev Silver badge

    Missed headline?

    Wouldn't "Lotus Notes dissolved by HCL" have been a good headline?

  17. Mage Silver badge

    Half what IBM paid for it.

    Still too expensive. Why have they bought it?

    1. jaycee88

      Re: Half what IBM paid for it.

      I'm thinking that since IBM will be their largest client (and there are plenty more but not nearly the size), some clever finance people worked out how the ROI will look and when they need to break even on the original investment. I hope that when they did that calculation they added some margin for barrels of lipstick - to put on the pig.

  18. Chubby Chuckles

    IT support bonanza

    Presumably HCL will be making a fortune 'supporting' why Notes doesn't work. 10 years ago I was working for a large console games company who had Notes and a whole house of cards of mission critical apps, particularly legal systems.

    To search email one would have to set up the search parameters before going to a meeting or lunch, if you were lucky it would serve up the results within an hour. Last I heard they are still limping along with Notes.

    This is a tune up bonanza and the sort of black box head scratcher problems that are ideal for IT outsourcers to 'solve' at a cost

    1. PaDuOne

      Re: IT support bonanza

      Your IT probably did not tell you 'secret' about possibility to turn on search indexing?

  19. Uncle Ron

    Do the people at El Reg...

    Do the people at El Reg actually not know that IBM has been paid back -many- times it's original investment in Notes? Whether you like the product or don't like it, it has generated huge revenue and profit for IBM. The headline that, "IBM received $1.X Billion but paid $3.X Billion is just silly--and irrelevant.

    1. DrFierce

      Re: Do the people at El Reg...

      True that. Indeed, there was a acquisition cost, but the amount of money they made in licenses, services support contracts, premium support contracts, etc... needs to be factored in. If I bought source code and the rights for this source code for $5,000 and made a million dollars with it and then sold the code and the rights to this code for $2,500, I didn't incur a loss of 50%, I actually made a profit just short of 200,000%...

    2. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Do the people at El Reg...

      Yeah, fair enough. Maybe we over-snarked.


  20. Jay Lenovo

    Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.

    Today's IBM and Notes, has been working about as well as the partnership of water with a grease fire.

    HCL at least wants (loves?) Notes. You'd have to be crazy in love to PAY for the privilege of maintaining it in the present condition.

    Notes and IBM will likely still remain friends.

    1. DrFierce

      Re: Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.

      The development team for Notes, Domino and other parts of the collaboration suite moved to HCL in the beginning of 2018 (or was it a bit earlier, not 100% if I recall the exact time correctly).

      They've been handling it for at least 10 months and, with version 10 that was released not too long ago, they are indeed paying a fair sum of money, but: a) it's in a much better place, b) it's already in much better condition; and, c) yeah, everyone involved at HCL seems to be still crazy in love with these products.

      Even though there's a few people that seem to have a hate-on for Notes/Domino, there are other people who like it and would like nothing better than see it attain a new glory as a cutting edge enterprise tool. Yeah, that includes me too.

      1. Jove Bronze badge

        Re: Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.

        @ DrFierce

        So you have insider information on what is happening with the product line?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.

          Well you could check here

          or here

          1. Jove Bronze badge

            Re: Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.

            @ Anonymous Coward / DrFierce / HCL Marketing Dept

            "Well you could check here ..."

            Sorry, I'm not into click-bait.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Throwing the wedding rice, a new future awaits.


              "Sorry, I'm not into click-bait."

              Yet here you are, posting on a register article.

  21. GrapeBunch

    Time Warp

    Somewhere I still have a card that would supposedly give me a free upgrade to Lotus Notes for OS/2. The offer was from IBM in the 1990s.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Notes as Documentum Replacement for HCL ???

    Lot of us grown old when you look back , simple "NotedID".. without that your Notes won't open. The Admin can only create a NotesID .. unless he has a copy of it he cant read your mailbox, offline/Online the only thing you need to secure is your notesID. Today we have token's .. during 90's.. think of it . We simply recycle old technologies .. Main frame to PC to cloud again ..

    I think HCL will do extremently well .. they come from a country a $2500 Car is used for 15+ years , runs very fuel efficient , moves you from Point A to Point B , and can find a Support clinic with in few meters if you are ever stuck.

    HCL tried with Documentum and even today one of the biggest SI for Documentum, this gives them the total control over their Documentum and Notes Customers , and Notes as a Email alone is a waste.. Notes is Application Platform/Middleware and gives endless Possibilities to a SI like HCL. if they execute well , its a Goldmine.

    Lotus is flower widely used Hindu rituals, represents Prosperity, Wisdom, and knowledge. HCL will do well only for that Lotus name .. dump Domino (Useless Pizza joint) .

    1. Jove Bronze badge

      Re: Notes as Documentum Replacement for HCL ???

      What about HCL's declining profit margins, and its increasing costs? Can it keep ahead, especially as borrowing costs increase in India?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    too independent

    As I remember from my days at the Beast of Armonk, Lotus Research tended to behave like it was it's own independent company, ignoring dictates from on high. Perhaps, now with the looming RedHat acquisition, IBM Corporate didn't want to have *TWO* independent, directive-ignoring subsidiaries.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IBM and software

    Can anyone think of one product where IBM has acquired their capability and it's flourished?

    IBM acquires companies and then slowly strangles development and innovation. It's harsh but their accountants acquire a company, work out how much $ they can make over 3-5 years before product sales stall. It's a sad model, given some past acquisitions included some great capability.

    IBM has little or no marketing $ either and doesn't like to market particular products. So it's very hard for any product to be heard in all that Blockchain, Hybrid Cloud noise.

    In summary IBM = where software goes to die

    All the best RedHat

  25. DrFierce

    @SVV --

    I've had the drfierce ID on eBay since 1999. And have had the drfierce e-mail addresses on hotmail, gmail and other messaging platforms for years now. Not like drfierce21788, but drfierce. So it's been a while since I've been around, 20+ years you could say.

    I'm not specifically criticizing naysayers. Hey, there's some truth in some of the non-troll comments. I'm just setting the record a bit straight. Notes/Domino have their weaknesses and flaws, but let's remember that Outlook/Exchange/Sharepoint have nothing to crow about as software products and what admins have to endure in the past (and still do in the present), they are not the greatest end-all/be-all the Microsoft hype machine purports them to be.

    And yeah, I recently created the DrFierce account here because I read news but had little time to read comments (and even less comment on them). Matter of fact, I surprised myself I didn't have an account already. Guess I missed creating an account on this site because, you know: day job, married life, fatherly duties and all that.

    If I had a record of posting thousands of comments a year, there'd be question as to whether I'm employed or not and I'd be probably called out as such.

    But it's not because of that one fact that the points I made have any less merit. So there. I said what I said, I am who I am and I stand by all that.

  26. jaycee88

    Thoughts on the sale.

    Some people really put value on antiques, well good for them. On a serious note, if IBM goes through their whole portfolio and closes down or sells the dead weight, they will be much more nimble to take major steps in order to truly transform. I was with Big Blue for 4 years, and believe given the quality of their leadership they can do it, if they actually decide to do so.

  27. Notes!

    More than a database, and still being copied.

    Full disclosure - Im LATE to this post, and NEW here, but have been spending time mostly techcrunch and toms hardware guide. Today, I thought about checking on Lotus Notes.

    Im a Lotus Development ex-employee, tasked with installing and managing Notes across a block of offices at Lotus (and IBM) back in the 90s - when we were using OS/2 and converting to NT. Ive been all over the world helping companies consolidate and right size their Notes infrastructure..

    Im a Ray Ozzie fan, especially his early work on Notes, pre commercialization. So yes, I do lean toward Lotus Notes (and the old products.. anyone remember Lotus FM? or Improv?

    I was there when IBM purchased us, and it was actually pretty good for both companies as IBM had committed to allowing Lotus to be more or less independent except for our choice of offices and back-end hardware. Cambridge always had its own way of thinking anyway, and in reality that is what lead to the success of Lotus Notes.

    In defense of Notes:

    The UI - is ugly and I hope that HCL can simplify and consolidate... but the back end is actually beautiful and in the last 20 years, even up to today, I still hear people say that they wish they could go back to Lotus Notes... so it is still a pick your problem situation because they both have flaws.

    My point is that companies used to use software to differentiate themselves in the market, allowing them to move faster, track process and people more efficiently, and this is what Notes did. It was a new way to manage data. Now, we all have the same tools, same processes, and it takes much more to differentiate and succeed. There is more pressure on people to be better and we all get that.

    I miss Lotus Notes - but mostly because I knew where to find all my data, and it was a great part of the software industry - when software wasnt on the cloud.

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