Emergency Services Network delays to cost public purse £1.1bn, Home Office reveals

The Home Office has admitted a three-year delay to the rollout of the UK’s new 4G Emergency Services Network will cost £1.1bn – but insisted it will still demonstrate value for money. Police and the fire brigade attend an emergency in waterloo on 2014 Britain mulls 'complete shutdown' of 4G net for emergency services READ …

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop rewriting history...

The original aim was to be ready for mid 2017, not the end of 2019.

At the time I said 2020+ assuming it wasn't binned before then

I still have time to be right in either case.

[DarkLordofSurrey]

Nice business case for Motorola, by the time 4g's ready they'll be set to sell 5g which will do doubt be plagued with delays and cost overruns..

KA-CHING

[Anonymous Coward]

Motorola aren't providing 4G - EE is carrier for all ESN services.

[wyatt]

Yes they are but you can bet that Motorola are calling the shots!

[phuzz]

Motorola are providing the equipment for 4G (reception certainly, I'm not sure about transmission), and so have the possibility of making a fat chunk of cash if it's decided to to move to 5G.

Of course, a well designed system should be able to upgrade to 5G with only minor changes, what's the betting that this isn't the case?

[Spazturtle]

"Motorola are providing the equipment for 4G (reception certainly, I'm not sure about transmission),"

Where are you getting this from? The gov.uk says Samsung got the contract:

'A contract has been signed for the supply of 4G handheld mobile devices and accessories from Samsung Electronics' - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-emergency-services-mobile-communications-programme/emergency-services-network

"Of course, a well designed system should be able to upgrade to 5G with only minor changes, what's the betting that this isn't the case?"

This is not something the UK government has come up with, both LTE QoS Class Identifier (this gives emergency services priority over normal traffic) and LTE Broadcast (what allows for push to talk radios over LTE) are industry specifications. The UK is the first country to adopt this system so we are having to work out all the problems.

As far as switching to 5G down the lines goes then that should be easy and only require new devices with new modems in them, no other changes would be needed to the system.

[Simon Rockman]

And this is despite moving the goalposts as to what constitutes coverage. Airwave is 99% landmass, London underground and inland waters, and some sea coverage (used by coastguard).

The new ESN is 90+% landmass - all major roads. And it still looks like being 10 years late.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/08/airwave_tetra_switch_off_gov_services_onmishambles/

[Anonymous Coward]

Incompetence

There's incompetence, then there's government managed incompetence. They take it to a whole new level.

[Nick Kew]

Re: Incompetence

Hmm, isn't that just a question of funding? That is to say, non-government incompetents run out of money before they achieve the scale of government?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: BT management incompetence, takes it to a whole new level

"There's incompetence, then there's government managed incompetence. They take it to a whole new level."

I'm glad someone mentioned competence and funding.

Bear in mind that EE are important in the Emergency Services Network picture (as mentioned in the article).

EE are part of BT plc [1], are they not? (not mentioned in most Emergency Services Network coverage here that I remember).

Hence your description needs expanding a bit. Suggestions welcome. Mine are unprintable.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/28/emergency_services_network_loses_staff_review_delay/

[1] https://www.btplc.com/BTToday/NewsList/EmergencyServicesNetworkmeetsmilestone/index.htm

[Anonymous Coward]

ESMCP

It has been named the Emergency Services Mobile Communication Programme for at least the last 4 years (right from the early days of the project), so to say it has been renamed to save face is somewhat of a lie I think.....

[Adrian 4]

Re: ESMCP

Really ? Whaen's someone going to tell gov.uk ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-emergency-services-mobile-communications-programme/emergency-services-network

And what's so negative about ESN that it's better than an acronym that incorporates Master Control Program ?

[BebopWeBop]

Following a review, the government last month quietly revealed a new “strategic approach” that will see Airwave’s lifespan extended to 2022.

A new tactical approach shurely?

[Pete4000uk]

This old TETRA kit...

A few radio hams would be interested to know where it goes and if any might be available for a small fee?

[Spazturtle]

Re: This old TETRA kit...

The answer is yes, eventually it will be auctioned off. But do remember that the government always choose the cheapest auction hall for it's surplus equipment sales, so you will probably need to drive somewhere like Durness if you want to bid on it.

[Commswonk]

Re: This old TETRA kit...

But do remember that the government always choose the cheapest auction hall for it's surplus equipment sales,

Er... the equipment does not belong to the government; it belongs to Airwave / Motorola. The government (specifically the Home Office) buys a service from Airwave without actually owning any part of the fixed infrastructure. User groups (e.g. the Police) are equally unlikely to "own" their equipment; it is likely to be leased from a Managed Service Provider.

But see above about "encryption".

[Commswonk]

Re: This old TETRA kit...

I would say "very doubtful" in the case of portable / vehicle terminals because of their in - built encryption; I would expect them to face secure destruction.

In the case of the base station equipment "well maybe", provided that their encryption capability can be physically separated from the "radio" bits.

Having said that retuning them from 380 - 400 MHz to the nearest amateur band (430 - 440 MHz) might prove difficult, as might getting around the fact that the equipment is fully software controlled and converting it to "fixed frequency" could be challenging, unless the aim was to use the RF stages with "other electronics", which almost makes the whole enterprise a bit pointless. I cannot see Motorola being happy about copies of the software escaping into the wider world.

The base station power supplies might be useful, though.

[}{amis}{]

Why is it relying on voice at all?

The thing I don't get about this entire mess is why is it not a platform agnostic IP based service stuff 4g if you can get better than 1kbs of bandwidth (see Codec 2) you can have bi-directional voice over ip that can be done over 2g.

Just have a handset that has triple sim support so it can talk to all 3 UK networks at once and just use the strongest available signal.

I mean for pity's sake I had VoIP working happily over the then cutting edge 33.6 kbit/s modem in the 90s

[Commswonk]

Re: Why is it relying on voice at all?

Just have a handset that has triple sim support so it can talk to all 3 UK networks at once and just use the strongest available signal.

"Just"? What about all the equipment needed to join the various networks together so that (say) Police Officers who are using different network providers can actually talk to each other?

I could be wrong but I have a slight suspicion that the "powers that be" actually want a system that has some chance of working, not one that has little or no chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Why is it relying on voice at all?

I could be wrong but I have a slight suspicion that the "powers that be" actually want a system that has some chance of working, not one that has little or no chance.

You're wrong. If they wanted a working system the emergency services wouldn't be in this pickle. Therefore, we can assume some other motive: Main choices are corruption or incompetence. Looking at the house of Westminster, it can't be corruption because if you want real money you have to be reasonably clever, whereas Westminster is full of people whose idea of fraud is mis-stating their expenses.

[Anonymous Coward]

Push to talk!

Push to talk is the missing feature. Imagine being in Grenfell Tower and no real way to communicate with all other fire fighters...

This is another let’s use new technology to save money without any thought on how the underlying and existing, battle-tested technology actually works.

Here’s a quote from the past from someone who actually does know what they are talking about!

“The need to save money and get out of a difficult commercial relationship has led the government to try and move to an approach that is not yet used nationwide anywhere in the world. The programme remains inherently high risk and while steps have been taken to manage these risks we are concerned that these are under-rated in the Home Office and elsewhere. The programme needs to put in place more independent testing and assurance regimes for its technical solution and urgently improve its approach to engaging with the emergency services.”

Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 15 September 2016

Anon for obvious reasons!

[Commswonk]

Re: Push to talk!

Push to talk is the missing feature.

Is that still true? I sincerely hope that this point would have been resolved by now.

Have a look here: https://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2018/03/23/samsung-announces-new-smartphone-emergency-services-network/ to find a picture of a Samsung offering. It looks horribly like something in which the user cannot replace the battery if it discharges during a shift, or even between shifts.

Please <Deity> can someone assure me that user - replaceable batteries are part of the specification.

Thank <same Deity> that I am retired and thus don't have to worry about such things for real.

[Spazturtle]

Re: Push to talk!

"Please <Deity> can someone assure me that user - replaceable batteries are part of the specification."

Hopefully they are not, replaceable batteries are not a good thing. If you want replaceable batteries then you agree to have either low capacity slow charging batteries or batteries that will occasionally blow peoples fingers off when handling them.

I'm not sure why people contain to say they want to have 2 batteries instead of a single battery that has twice the capacity and twice the charging speed. Do people seriously think that if batteries were removable they would be anywhere near the same capacity as built in batteries or charge as fast?

[Commswonk]

Re: Push to talk!

Hopefully they are not, replaceable batteries are not a good thing. (etc)

I think "Duh" is appropriate here. Have you ever worked with (say) TETRA equipment with replaceable batteries? They are not too hot to handle when removed from a fast charger, and the radio terminal is out of action for a few tens of seconds while the change is made. (Better to switch off first, and switch on again after the change has been made, given all the handshaking required.)

Do you really want Police Officers to be stuck out somewhere with a dead radio? Dead simply because the battery didn't last the full shift, and they can't change the battery. In addition, even if it does last a full (perhaps busy) shift it will not be available for the next shift because it has to sit in an office somewhere charging up.

Do you really want to incur the costs associated with having to have a heap of spare radios to allow half to be "out" while the rest are charging? Or is every officer going to have to carry two just in case one conks out with a discharged battery.

Trust me; replaceable abtteries are not a hazard.

I don't think you have thought this through...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Push to talk!

"Hopefully they are not, replaceable batteries are not a good thing."

My Moto MTH800 doesn't last a full shift on it's battery, usually about 3/4s of the way through I have to swap it. That's a 1500Mha battery at 3 months old (I got new ones recently), powering a small screen and constantly listening in to the active transmission. The newer handsets I'm told don't even last as long as that.

Once you upscale that to a larger screen, and being used for all the extra stuff there is no way you're going to last the full shift with a 4000ish Mha battery unless you're using a battery pack as well. I certainly don't want to be stuck in the middle of the rural parts I work with no radio, and nobody coming if I hit the wussy button because the battery has died.

[Anonymous Coward]

US legacy multinational company at work, shhh they are ripping us to make $$$$

'Motorola are providing the equipment for 4G (reception certainly, I'm not sure about transmission), and so have the possibility of making a fat chunk of cash if it's decided to to move to 5G.'

No Motorola was to provide cellular push to talk software WAVE, but it is subpar and now they are wanting to provide KODIAK package both ( wave and kodiak) are companies Motorola purchased and where each respective company's software will die...

Both of these packages are software solutions which run on Android or IOS.

motorola attempt at lte hardware has been engineered by Taiwanese company. Again rebagged product built to a price and flogged for a truckload. The positive side for UK is companies like Samsung and other produce a hardened product which will outrun motorola any day of the week.

TETRA is a standard used in a lot of places, as a standard it beats the arse of the US poor P25 standard.

Motorola has done nothing here apart worked out how to rape UK tax payer and capitalize of the incompetence of the top layers of UK govt fat cats. They do the same in the US, Australia with P25 solutions - it is there cash cow at this point in time which also lays golden eggs.

Like most things in life, a well designed, engineered and developed solution rocks, Airwave in UK stated off sick on day one as they decided to use motorola base hardware which will was subpar compaired to Sepura, Daam and Hytera.