This is just silly.
Redis does a Python, crushes 'offensive' master, slave code terms
The open-source Redis database, like the Python programming language, is moving away from using the technical terms "master" and "slave" in its documentation and API – to the extent that's possible without breaking things. For Python, the decision this week to replace the words "master" and "slave", prompted by undisclosed …
COMMENTS
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Friday 14th September 2018 09:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Those pesky SJWs virtue signalling
> Those pesky SJWs virtue signalling
> by not being publicly known..?
You can still virtue signal by being openly supportive of the idea, without admitting you were the impetus for the change. Those who "start it" usually get a lot of vitriol directed at them personally, which mere supporters generally avoid the worst of.
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Friday 14th September 2018 11:48 GMT Rich 2
Couldn't agree more - some people just have too much time on their hands
What next? Change the names of the colours black and white? It's ludicrous
And on a more general note, how exactly do you become "offended"? It's very in-vogue these days. I don't think I have ever been "offended" by anything? Ever. In fact, I'm not even sure what it means
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Friday 14th September 2018 12:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
This comment section feels like an echo chamber, echo chamber, ...
Good to see all the people who don't have a reason to be offended by these terms not even attempting to put themselves in the place of those who do. If you think that some words aren't freighted with extra meaning, start using the 'n' word more. It just means black person.
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Friday 14th September 2018 16:48 GMT JohnFen
"If you think that some words aren't freighted with extra meaning"
That's a red herring, since nobody thinks that.
If master/slave was being used in a way that was overtly offensive and damaging, that would be one thing. But, it's not. Sure, there are people who are offended by the words, but there is no "right to not be offended".
Changing language to avoid offending some people is a nice thing to do, but sometimes the costs of such a change are too high to be worth just being a bit nice to a small percentage of people. In which case, the correct thing to do is not make the change, and let some people be offended.
That said, I don't think (generally) this is a battle worth fighting on either side. The whole thing is just dumb beyond measure.
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Friday 14th September 2018 18:00 GMT HieronymusBloggs
Context
"If you think that some words aren't freighted with extra meaning, start using the 'n' word more."
In software documentation? That would be very silly. The 'offensive' words referred to here are common technical terms. Would you suggest I remove the master and slave brake cylinders from my car in case they offend other road users?
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Friday 14th September 2018 18:46 GMT bombastic bob
"start using the 'n' word more. It just means black person."
Uh, no. Direct racial epithets aren't the same thing as the use of the term 'master' and/or 'slave' with respect to one another in a technical context.
[but maybe you made a good point anyway, in a backwards kind of way - 'master' and 'slave' aren't racial epithets unless you WANT them to be, so that you can control other people's speech or something]
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Friday 14th September 2018 21:10 GMT billdehaan
Actually, in the 1960s, the word "black" was considered offensive by many, and they demanded to be called niggers, instead. Seriously. And then in the 1970s, the word "nigger" was deemed offensive, and the new term was "African-Canadian" (or -American, as appopriate).
The reverse also occurs. The terms "gay" and "queer" were historically insults, until the gay community simply decided to start using the terms themselves, and the words lost the ability to insult.
There's a significant difference between using a word intentionally to insult, and being overly sensitive.
And then, there are things which go beyond parody. Previously, the exemplar for that was the O.J. Simpson case, where the term nigger was treated like it was a crucifix and the rest of the world was vampires, and to prove it, the news media interviewed a famous musician named Easy E. The problem is that Easy E was in a group called NWA, which stood for "Niggers With Attitude". So, you had someone who created a group with the word "nigger" in the title saying that the word was horrible and shocking and anyone who used it belonged in prison. By that logic, he couldn't even say his own band's name.
That was pretty much the tipping point for political correctness. Well, here were are, 23 years later, and it looks like the bar may be raised.
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Friday 14th September 2018 14:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
"This is just silly."
Sadly, I think it's more serious than just silly; it's neurotic, because they're looking for offense where none was intended and because they believe that a word should only mean what they think it should mean - a sort of neurotic pedantry.
Ultimately, words are just words; it's what people do that may be acceptable or, in the case of slavery, unacceptable.
What I find worrying about things like this is that decisions are being made on the basis of neurosis instead of rationality.
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Sunday 16th September 2018 10:59 GMT P. Lee
>Sadly, I think it's more serious than just silly; it's neurotic
Not only neurotic, its plain wrong.
I absolutely do want a master/slave relationship in my code. If my slave code develops a penchant for doing its own thing and runs off to Canada, I'm in big trouble and the code will be... erased.
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Friday 14th September 2018 19:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
You are way, way too kind.
It is offensively stupid.
English vocabulary is packed with words that have more than one meaning.
Pandering to a few hyper-sensitive snowflakes by giving them exclusive control over the presumed meanings of words is an offence against the rights of the rest of the people who speak this language.
Time for the nonsense to end.
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Friday 14th September 2018 10:33 GMT magickmark
Re: They should ask Torvalds to rename git.
@Jake
"We should instead use "slide in" and "slide out"."
I find the above offensive due to the sexual connotations and the implied inference of male dominance over a female partner!!
Having said that I'm fucked as to what we would call it but then that's not my problem!!!
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Friday 14th September 2018 18:52 GMT bombastic bob
Re: They should ask Torvalds to rename git.
"male dominance over a female partner!!"
yeah and with all of the BDSM references for master/slave LAST time around...
I still think Tori and Uke would get past the radar. They're Judo terms. Judo. 'Tori' literally means 'bird' and is the person doing the throw (also according to the web page from the verb 'toru' which has a meaning of take or pick up or choose - but if you've ever had a bird steal your food, it makes sense). 'Uke' means 'receiver' more or less and is the person being thrown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_(martial_arts)
any OTHER connotation, political or sexual, was (*cough*) accidental.
/me thinks "at least I didn't say 'tops' and 'bottoms' - no, wait..."
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Friday 14th September 2018 07:04 GMT Dazed and Confused
Re: No masters!
> Even if they rename it, the architecture itself is offensive. I will be boycotting the product until all offensive dominance roles have been removed therefrom.
I've been involved in IT training for most of the last 30 years and must admit that I came to find the terms master and slave as distasteful quite a long time ago, but they were the words that were generally used. There are other words commonly bandied about in the industry that perhaps don't sit well these days.
But when it comes to the actual architecture issue it's very often the slaves processes telling the master what to do. You often see the slaves asleep and the master busy and it's not unusual to find that masters actually do more work waking up the slaves than the slaves do when they've been woken up.
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Saturday 15th September 2018 01:30 GMT onefang
Re: No masters!
"The only person I've got to know well into that sort thing, she, the sub, was definitely in charge and it was her masters job to keep her satisfied."
The sub has all the power really, coz the sub gives the gift of submission to the Dom, and the sub can take it away again. That's basically what a safe word is for, "Stop doing that nasty thing I previously gave you permission to do, and stop it right now.".
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Thursday 13th September 2018 21:48 GMT cornetman
I'm always suspicious of "undisclosed complaints".
Some years ago, a colleague of mine, who was a golf club member, had a guy come up to him to complain about his attire. Instead of coming out and admitting that he was the one making the complaint, he made up some bullshit about "some of the other members have asked me to talk to you".
If you have something to say, and you can't stand by your speech on its own merits, perhaps it is better to stay silent.
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Friday 14th September 2018 19:07 GMT bombastic bob
I'm always suspicious of "undisclosed complaints".
It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior, to pretend it's "others" then "bring it to your attention" like that...
'Passive-aggressive' is considered (by some at least) to be a psychological DISORDER. For most of us, it's just A PAIN IN THE ASS.
Ever had to work with a passive-aggressive who targets you? I have. Several times. No thanks. And getting them punished for it: impossible. All you can do is *QUIT* and say why on the way out the door...
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Thursday 13th September 2018 21:48 GMT EveryTime
A silly issue, distracting from real work
I don't think that anyone is directly offended by the words. Actual slavery was abolished in U.S. about 8 generations ago.
Instead they are being pseudo-offended on behalf of theorized other people.
Even while rolling my eyes, I wouldn't have a problem with getting rid of the terms if there were equivalent replacements. But in some contexts they are the simplest, clearest terms to use.
No doubt if we got rid of the terms, the replacements would end up with the same connotations and subsequently need to be replaced viz. the chain of euphemisms for bodily functions, each of which turns into a word not used in polite company a generation or two later.
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:22 GMT Fursty Ferret
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
Unfortunately there is a generation of US students who do get offended. I write 'unfortunately' because unfortunately for them it is highly unlikely I would ever offer them a job.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to feel uncomfortable about terminology, and someone doesn’t have to agree with your point of view to work for you. A refusal to change with the times should be far more of a red flag to these potential employees, and in general you only have to skim the headlines to see how far an antiquated attitude gets you in IT.
As someone who just turned 30 the whole master/slave terminology was tired years ago, and I don’t think I’ve ever used it in my own architecture, preferring “Primary” and “Secondary”, both of which can be easily abbreviated to single syllable words.
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Friday 14th September 2018 13:01 GMT Jaybus
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
"As someone who just turned 30 the whole master/slave terminology was tired years ago, and I don’t think I’ve ever used it in my own architecture, preferring “Primary” and “Secondary”, both of which can be easily abbreviated to single syllable words."
Those words have completely different meaning. Most English speakers would expect the secondary to have a "backup" or "auxiliary" or "redundant" role. If we are randomly choosing words for replacement, then I choose "fu" and "bar", so instead of a master/slave relationship, we would have a fu/bar relationship.
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Friday 14th September 2018 19:13 GMT bombastic bob
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
"A refusal to change with the times"
I am _OFFENDED_ that you *FEEL* I'm REFUSING to CHANGE "with the times".
Except, of course, I _AM_. Refusing to behave like AN IDIOT is a good thing.
see what happens when the OTHER side is "offended"? I bet you don't give a crap! And neither do I, about people being "offended" about the terms master / slave in a technical context.
Let's all STOP GIVING A CRAP. Then we'll get along.
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Friday 14th September 2018 16:38 GMT JohnFen
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
"unfortunately for them it is highly unlikely I would ever offer them a job."
I don't know about that -- that sounds more like "fortunately for them", as in they'd be dodging a bullet. I certainly wouldn't want to work for someone who is so sensitive that they would reject people based on that rather than on whether or not they'd perform well in the job.
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Friday 14th September 2018 06:52 GMT muffins
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
Just because you don't find these terms offensive or troublesome doesn't mean that someone else's reaction to them is not valid. I'm sure there's things you would find offensive that I couldn't relate to (for example, becoming exasperated by changing my behaviour to accommodate someone else's viewpoint).
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Tuesday 18th September 2018 14:47 GMT SumGuySays
Re: A silly issue, distracting from real work
"Just because you don't find these terms offensive or troublesome doesn't mean that someone else's reaction to them is not valid."
I mean yeah it does mean their reaction is invalid because they don't understand that the same words have different meanings in different contexts. Master and Slave have specific meanings that everyone in programming and IT know and understand and have been that way for decades.
We have parent processes that kill their children. That has nothing to do with homicide just convenient words that in this context have different meaning.
When Androids get created we will have to go through this all again because someone will thing the word replicant is offensive to artificially created people.
This is just like the who there are only two genders argument, but in reverse. Biologically it's true, but socially they use the same word to be more of a behavior than a phenotype. You can't just wake up and decide to have a penis, but that's not the context of those fluid gender identity arguments.
Don't get your sociology in my computer science.
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Thursday 13th September 2018 22:11 GMT ITS Retired
We can't be having descriptive nomenclature.
People might figure out what you are talking about. You know like some people might think male/female electrical plugs as being obscene (USA). I'm really surprised no one has redesigned the working ends of common extension cords and power cords plugs for appliances and household outlets as being less suggestive to safe guard the sensibilities of children.
(Frequency and Hertz is another example of confusion.) Everything new ain't necessarily better.
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Friday 14th September 2018 00:15 GMT Martin Gregorie
Re: We can't be having descriptive nomenclature.
Frequency and Hertz is another example of confusion.
Bad example: 'frequency' and 'hertz' are not synonyms: Nobody would ever say "That was an annoying high Hertz noise" or "Radio 4 is on 93.5 frequency". IOW frequency is a synonym for the general terms 'oscillation' or 'vibration' but Hz denotes a measured frequency, which is a much more precise statement.
Hertz replaced cycles/sec as the preferred term denoting a measurement of frequency 40-50 years ago during a sudden mania for naming derived scientific units by the names of related scientists. The changeover was confusing: when I started University we used cgs units. By the time I graduated, we'd moved first to MKS units and then to the current names. Apart from the Hertz (Hz) losing information because you have to know what a Hertz is a synonym for (cycles/second) which is annoying for units you seldom use, it is easier to write Hz than cps, cycles/sec or c/s and it gets even better when you're dealing with KHz , MHz or GHz.
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:29 GMT Paul Kinsler
Re: Nobody would ever say "That was an annoying high Hertz noise"
I'm not so sure about that - some people use words like "amperage", for example, and sometimes even might talk about the voltage through something. I agree they shouldn't, but not everyone has their terminology perfect, and could quite easily have learnt it from another misinformed individual.
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Friday 14th September 2018 01:03 GMT DCFusor
Re: We can't be having descriptive nomenclature.
I have some old General Radio gear that had sexless RF connectors. What would we call them today?
Trans-??? They were used on RF signal generators, from the days when frequency was understood to mean cycles per second unless otherwise specified. Kind of like we don't say "liters metric" or "Feet imperial". No need.
More importantly, would be be fined in Canada for not calling them whatever the right thing is today?
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Thursday 13th September 2018 22:28 GMT DCFusor
Makes me glad I'm old, accomplished,
And have some actual virtue, so I don't have to do fake-virtue-signalling. I was unaware that my software had feelz, and am damn glad that in my code, slaves respond to their masters with far more alacrity than in any human relationship that ever existed. It'd be wrong for humans or even insects to act that way, but this is SOFTWARE, you morans. I am glad the valves in my petrol engine slavishly follow the camshaft. And my house heater slavishly follows that the thermostat tells it to do, rather than freeze me or burn my house down.
What a silly bunch of crap. Reminds me of some insights by CS Lewis who basically mentioned that if you want to destroy humans, the tool to use is messing up their ability to communicate by buggering their language - the holding places for the mind.
Look what's happened to "conservative" and "liberal" - conservatives (a label I used to be proud of) have become right-wing nuts - and liberals - these people with this CRAP - are anything but liberal or progressive, and since they are supported by huge mega-corps who are now doing censorship, are the actual Fascists - isn't the definition of that the point when you can't tell whether the oligarchs or the government actually are in charge? Bingo. The liberals aren't - they are forcing me to be like they want.
That's not liberal...that's totalitarian.
Hopefully I'm done with the subject. Partisanship has driven me off some otherwise worthwhile sites - I just want to talk tech, honestly, and am sick of the fake angst. This is one site I've been able to stomach as it's pretty low here, and usually with decent humor. A good laugh is, well, good.
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Friday 14th September 2018 07:54 GMT Simon 11
Re: Makes me glad I'm old, accomplished,
But "replica" is a copy. A slave is not a copy.
The issue appears to be that people are expressing butt-hurt and demanding change without thinking about what to change it to (that is clearly far too difficult). The existing terminology is clear and widely understood - A master is the primary control system that drives / feeds one or more slaves. Likewise, a slave is a system that is driven by another, if the master is down or non-existent, the slave won't do anything.
"master" / "replica" doesn't convey this style of relationship at all. It conveys the idea of there being a primary control system, with a copy of that system (so in the event the master goes down, the replica would take over and perform the role of the master).
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Friday 14th September 2018 16:41 GMT JohnFen
Re: Makes me glad I'm old, accomplished,
"They seem more appropriately descriptive to me than master/slave. "
Not to me. "Master/replica" implies a rather different relationship than "master/slave".
Of all of the suggested replacements for master/slave, the only one I've seen that I think would actually work (in terms of being nonconfusing and being a reasonably accurate descriptor) is "Dom/sub".
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Sunday 16th September 2018 12:06 GMT Doctor Syntax
Re: Makes me glad I'm old, accomplished,
Surely just shutting down any suggestion of change is closer to "totalatarian"?
The word you're looking for is "consistent".
In tech-speak words have specific meanings. They may have been imported from some other context by analogy but once imported they acquire a new significance and it becomes important that they're used consistently. Unless we have consistency it becomes impossible to communicate. That means that if I ever used the term "slave" in documentation anyone reading it then, now or at some point in the future would know exactly what I meant. Even if we were to coin a new term now and use it in the future it would in no way remove the need for anyone entering the field in the future learning what the term "slave" meant in that context; there's too many examples of it being used in that precise, technological sense to do without it.
Your opening sentence is a perfect example of the pitfalls that are caused by lack of precision. It's clear from the fact that you think "replica" is equivalent in meaning to "slave" whereas they actually mean two different things. To try to impose the one term in place of the other would indeed be buggering about with the terminology if not with the actual language.
Perhaps you've wandered into this conversation from marketing or management where precision of expression is a disadvantage, exposing as it does an absence of meaning.
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Thursday 13th September 2018 22:53 GMT JLV
Apologies
Haven’t paid enough attention to this severe atmospheric disturbance in a warm water individual consumption container, but...
Is the line being drawn at _not_ breaking user code? Possibly by not touching API or by aliasing master/slave to umbrellas and whatever? I get the sense, from the blurb about APIs, that this is mostly doc-level, but...
Also, whatever the motivation for this, it would be best to put determination of adequate, preferably industry-wide, replacements as a much-preferred prereq. Perhaps ‘subordinate’ for ‘slave’?
Otherwise we’ll end up w stupidly unclear euphemisms up the wazoo. Umbrellas indeed.
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Friday 14th September 2018 06:37 GMT Tom Wood
Re: "Hurtful"
Like the old argument about 'brainstorming'. Someone decided that would be offensive to people with epilepsy and decreed it henceforth be known as a 'thought shower'. But then someone actually asked the people who actually were epileptic and they laughed: https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/press/facts/brainstorming-offensive
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Friday 14th September 2018 21:19 GMT billdehaan
Re: "Hurtful"
Likewise the complaint that "parent/child" terminology with respect to processes had to be renamed, because it was hurtful to orphans.
And always, it's never the complainer that's offended, he/she/it is always complaining pre-emptively on behave of others who they believe will be offended. Meanwhile, the supposedly wounded party usually, as you've pointed out, thinks the entire thing is silly.
Back in the day, I had a census taker squeamishly try to take to me about disabilities. I'm blind in one eye (childhood trauma), but I don't consider myself disabled, although the census taker did. It was pathetic watching this bureaucrat trying to be excruciatingly sensitive about the fact that I'm missing an eye, whereas I thought the sensitivity was just laughable.
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Friday 14th September 2018 18:38 GMT HieronymusBloggs
Re: "Hurtful"
"There's a huge email thread where I work of people who find it offensive."
As offensive as this (quote from Antirez)?
"After it was clear that I was not interested in his argument, Mark accused me of being fascist. Now I’m Italian, and incidentally my grand grand father was put in jail for years by fascists because he was communist and was against the regime. He was released to die in a couple of months at home. The father of my mother instead went in the north of Italy for II World War, and was able to escape from the Nazis for a miracle. Stayed 5 years as a refugee, and eventually returned home to become the father of my mother. Mark do not care about the terminology he uses against other people, if the matter at hand is to make sure people that may potentially feel offended will not."
Quite frankly the behaviour ascribed to 'Mark' in the above paragraph disgusts me, but it is all too common.
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Friday 14th September 2018 00:28 GMT jake
I just got back from a rather large data center.
Every machine there took clock from a clock master ... and was in turn a slave. Something tells me that this will still be true when my Granddaughter is long retired. There are some battles that are just too stupid and time wasting to even contemplate starting. One wonders at the holier than thou set who started whining about this particular one. Don't they have anything better to do? Like, oh, I dunno, CODE, maybe?
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Friday 14th September 2018 21:29 GMT billdehaan
Re: I just got back from a rather large data center.
Ah, I've lived this, but never had such a nicely-encapsulated reference for it before, my thanks.
Back in the day when I was doing Serious Defence Work, I was responsible for evaluating, and recommending, compiler purchases. I have a long winded story which I will summarize by saying that a $250,000 Ada compiler was purchased practically on a whim, and approved within two working days, while a Turbo C (not C++, this was 1988 or so) compiler that had a retail price of $49 took over 18 months, and about a 40 page list of required approval signatures.
Being that we were doing Navy work, the common euphemism at the time was that it didn't matter if you're building a dinghy or an aircraft carrier, it was the same amount of paperwork, but we could get you the carrier faster.
Now, I shall simply say it is a "bikeshed" moment, and pass on the link.
Thanks again.
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Friday 14th September 2018 03:18 GMT Long John Brass
Re: I just got back from a rather large data center.
Like, oh, I dunno, CODE, maybe?
If they could code they wouldn't be complaining. They would be too busy doing something actually useful!
Here is the problem; The people who complain will never ever be satisfied. If you give in to them once, they will just come back for another byte of the "I'm offended pie". It's all they know and it's all they can do; They have no other use, skill or ability.
The one and only solution is to starve them of their oxygen by simply ignoring them. Don't answer or respond in any way (just send all comms they spurt to the wast-bin)
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Friday 14th September 2018 04:11 GMT jake
Re: I just got back from a rather large data center.
Case in point: Pro-environment protesters were blocking streets in San Francisco today. Nothing new, right? Except today they were protesting the "Global Climate Action Summit", the agenda of which AGREES with the protesters in everything except timeframe! It would seem that the protesters want it to happen last Thursday or earlier, and won't take no for an answer. The mind absolutely boggles at the stupidity of this kind of person.
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Friday 14th September 2018 01:43 GMT Mephistro
Every living human being has ancestors...
... that were slaves, and other ancestors that were slave masters.
And bad things in history won't be prevented from happening again just by censoring the words that describe them. It's probably the other way round!
And applying one of these words to elements of software or hardware is just a convenient way to describe the relationship between said elements. You can't offend an effing hard disk drive!
Politically correct language has morphed into a tool for some fuckwits to gain an illusion of popularity or power, at the cost of breaking language, one of the most important tools we humans have.
This is criminally stupid.
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Every living human being has ancestors...
The problem is software development has attracted a lot of "young" people who believe their task is not to build working software, but "to change the world", and since most of them come from some political area, that's the result.
Don't get me wrong, I think people should be involved in things that matters, just code can't become a battlefield of different political orientations.
While softening the meaning of some words may be wrong, many words have different meanings depending on context. A software of missile launch that call "abort" is in no way trying to assert something about women rights. If a process runs in a sandbox, it's not because of a childish behaviour - and is using "childish" as a pejorative offensive?
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Friday 14th September 2018 02:39 GMT ThatOne
OMG
I think everybody agrees that real slavery is a Bad Thing. But finding the term itself offensive when used metaphorically in a purely technical setting is just as ridiculous as the Victorians covering table legs for modesty reasons.
When you get to the point to be aroused by the view of naked table legs, or to be offended by the thought there might be a "master" function cold-heartedly commanding "slave" functions, I think there is something askew with society.
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Friday 14th September 2018 05:21 GMT Cincinnataroo
The world has gone mad.
One approach: Bugger off you winger and create your own language, database whatever. Dickheads.
Another: I object to just about every reserved word in your language, please remove them all from the source.
Another: Stop using things have have caved to this nonsense.
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Friday 14th September 2018 07:14 GMT Michael H.F. Wilkinson
They should have studied INTERCAL
Where 1/3rd - 1/5th of all statements need to be polite (" PLEASE DO", "PLEASE DO NOT"), etc. I always found the COME FROM (time-reversed GOTO) statement in later versions a stroke of genius.
Next time a student annoys me, I might set his or her next programming exercise in INTERCAL. Evil? Certainly! Fun? Absolutely!!
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Friday 14th September 2018 07:29 GMT Czrly
I exploit my vocabulary. It is a slave to my whims.
I read an excellent blog post about the word, "exploit", a few years ago. The thrust of the argument was this: nonsense words like "leverage" (which should only be a noun and never a verb) only serve to weaken communication when they are used in place of perfectly adequate and, in fact, ideal words that have long existed in the English language. If one wants to make an unequivocal point, one should use real words. Strong words are not offensive if used appropriately.
Ever since then, I have made a point of exploiting the word, "exploit", whenever possible. The same goes for many other words. "Implementing this feature should be easy, now, because we can exploit the additional ground-work that we included in sprint (n-2)," I might announce in a planning meeting. "No, the hardware devices should always be slaves to the software service running on box Y," I will continue to declare in the future.
Living in Germany, this is expected. Professionals communicate conclusively. There is no strange personification of software systems and hardware tools -- a fact that is astounding given that my testers often report things like, "He tells me that he cannot connect to the remote server," because of the fact that German nouns have genders.
I will continue to use the English language as she was meant to be spoke. If I have to continue to live in Germany in order to get away with that, I won't complain. I will leverage my proximity to some of the oldest and best breweries in the world and be perfectly content.
I, a master of my mother-tongue, shall never surrender!
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Friday 14th September 2018 07:39 GMT Kevin Johnston
Reality check
All these arguments 'on behalf of someone who was/would be offended' were beautifully summed up by Billy Connolly talking about Political Correctness...
It is arrogance in that you have no proof that the person would actually be offended and you have not allowed them to state their opinion, assuming that you know how they would feel.
All you can say if if you personally are offended
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:54 GMT Ben Tasker
Re: Reality check
Further up the thread, someone linked to the case of "Brainstorming" being termed politically incorrect.
Within the results of that statement is something that really underlines your point:
> However, in the survey, 93 per cent of people with epilepsy did not find the term derogatory or offensive in any way and many felt that this sort of political correctness singled out people with epilepsy as being easily offended.
The knee-jerk "we must protect them" without giving them any say, is itself potentially offensive.
I try not to offend, and will apologise if I have legitimately offended, but I never try to judge what might and might not offend someone else beyond the bleeding obvious.
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:10 GMT jb99
Two projects to move away from
I have no confidence in the future of either project now.
When projects fall prey to this kind of thing, it _always_ gets worse and turns into a witch hunt where people taking fake offence use it to gain power. The product always suffers.
I'd move away from both now as this kind of thing often means the future of the product is in doubt
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:35 GMT Phil Lord
Changing Language
The idea is that changing language can help to change the debate. And, of course, it has a long history and does work: nowadays the use of the "n-word" on TV is uncommon and always considered offensive; the introduction of the term "gay". There are many examples.
For myself, I find it hard to get excited about "master/slave", simply because in the UK at least it's largely historical. Perhaps, that is a luxury others do not have. One of the things that I do find amusing, though, is all the people who like to spend their time commenting on what a waste of time this is, when we should be coding. And others complaining about the principle of trying to change language to change the debate, and then blaming it all on SJWs and snowflakes: terms invented in an attempt to change the debate.
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Friday 14th September 2018 08:42 GMT RayzorWire
Why are we allowing the rantings of a single idiot make such fundamental changes! This is a bloody programming language for gods sake and in some dark corner of 4chan some idiot is laughing his cock off at this.
We live in a time when the faux-outrage of a vocal minority can have massive impact on the more passive majority - often for no good reason!
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Friday 14th September 2018 09:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Because they are not rantings and it is many people who are offended, not just one or two.
Simply because a particular group is a minority, it does not follow that their views are either insignificant or worthless. In order to maintain a vibrant and healthy culture, it is necessary to understand others' views and, where reasonable, to accommodate them. Whilst a simple change in terminology may seem insignificant to you, it may hold importance to one of the "faux-outrage vocal minorities" you mention.
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Friday 14th September 2018 09:37 GMT Electronics'R'Us
What next?
Are we going to get lots of requests to change the naming of pins on hardware SPI interfaces from the perfectly descriptive MISO/MOSI?
Or perhaps the Power architecture mnemonic EIEIO being offensive to farmers? (I remember seeing a comment in the source that said // Old Macdonald had a farm).
How about slaved power supplies for proper sequencing should be renamed? Dependent? (Can't have that, implies economic status)
Maybe the term 'bit twiddling' can be offensive (sexual incorrectness)
The list goes on; these terms are used because they perfectly describe the relationship in hardware.
Get a grip! (Oh, is that offensive too?)
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Friday 14th September 2018 09:42 GMT HieronymusBloggs
Fascist software
To show solidarity with this fine and sensible social movement I must immediately go through my computer systems and rip out all of the nasty fascist open source software which uses a git Master branch. It will signal what a virtuous fellow I am and everything will continue to work just f
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Friday 14th September 2018 14:43 GMT Dazed and Confused
Re: Is it the micro, or the soft that causes you so much anguish?
I can cope with soft, I mean soft cheese is very good.
I can cope with micro, I grew up thinking about computers being "micros" and still tend to think of CPUs as being microprocessors.
No, it when the 2 words are combined that they represent a concept which I find too ghastly to contemplate.
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Friday 14th September 2018 19:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Utter morons
Why the negativity about master/slave. Have these people ever discussed dom/sub culture? The two are utterly inseperable and care incredibly for each other's welfare, a loving bond that is far above what most people share. The name master/slave, dom/sub, top/bottom are simply words for those who delight in the roles they feel most safe in. Master is nothing without their slave, the slave gives the master their power over the slave. The slave can remove that power in an instant if they feel it's being abused.
Let's not even get into such things as IDE settings master/slave drives and heaven knows how many other IT tech items rely on the terms master ( controller ) and slaves ( actors who carry out instructions ).
These idiots hear master/slave and all their narrow minded little brains can think of is the horrendous period of American history where the terms master/slave had utterly adhorrent meanings.