Activists rattle tin to take UK's pr0n block to court Campaigners are crowdfunding a legal challenge against plans to block smut in the UK. The government last year signed off on controversial plans to require online porn providers to check their users are over 18 before letting them into the site. The age-verification (AV) measures, ostensibly to stop kids stumbling across sex …
... given stories like hundreds of thousands of credit card details being hacked from BA, or phishing scams at Butlins, are the Govt sure their very own ministers aren't going to end up with egg on their faces here?
How is this going to work without some master list of smut sites? Is it really going to be someone's job at the BBFC to cruise for smut all day?
Meh. Given the proliferation of HD porn on the piratebay, rarbg, usenet, the net in general then I don't really see who this is targeting. Other than sheeple.
It seems to be a mere knee jerk reaction and a solution to a non problem and per-leese, spare me the "think of the children" rhetoric.
It has fuck all to do with AV but everything to get you on a list of "thought paedophiles". You watch porn, ergo you are deviant.
Another pointless idea for some set of officious jobsworths to keep their snouts in the trough.
spare me the "think of the children" rhetoric."
Wrong.
This is the thin end of a very thick pole that data fetishists want to bury right up you.
This s**t is already showing "feature creep" with stuff like anorexia advocacy ("Pro-ana") sites on the list and WTF is "Estoterica"??? (no that's not a typo).
This is profiling the UK internet user population by the back door (the only way data fetishists know how to operate).
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Esoterica is what I happen to collect rather than pr0n. [I'm verbal, not visual so stories would work, I suppose.) It's all the weird shit on the Internet: Magic, demonology, ancient aliens, fringe science, Illuminati, (supposed) Freemasonry, psychic phenomena, as I said, the weird. I even chuck most of the conspiracy theorist in there. To my engineering/scientific mind, it's the equivalent of pr0n although I don't get off on it.
"Esoterica is what I happen to collect rather than pr0n. [I'm verbal, not visual so stories would work, I suppose.) It's all the weird shit on the Internet:"
And after a quick web search, it's also apparently related to backgammon.
Kids don't have credit cards, and generally not much money either, so instead of trying to pay for pron from a reputable outlet, they'll just pirate it like most of us did as kids, and you can bet that none of the pirate sites give a fuck about an age limit in a single small country.
So, this law is going to inconvenience adults (who will probably just move to either piracy or offshore sites, removing income from the UK porn industry), and push kids towards pirate sites, where they're likelihood of finding some of the more 'unusual' porn is increased.
It's almost like they tried to find the worst possible way to implement this.
by writing a very angry, direct letter! While the rest of the UK population continues happily to access porn via vpn, etc.As they (we) do to access all those multi-Gb linux distros from all the "banned" torrent sites and the government "is not aware", oh please!
... and when it does they will announce a white list that you'll be allowed to access. Admission to the white list will require a charge, of course. This will be trivial at first. In due course it will be increased to create an income stream for the Treasury. That's what this is all about.
Yes: some of it is 'meat market, wham bang thank you marm' stuff that disrespects both sexes**; it does little to help kids build good relationships as adults. However I would rather that they looked at porn than some of the blood & guts stuff where people are killed with little thought. What does that do to build a respect for others' lives ? Then don't get me started on the religious stuff that encourages people to believe in whatever nonsense that they see just because it sounds good - without any checking for reality.
Is this really the right target ?
** BTW: I gather that female porn stars are paid more than the men that the f**k, should there not be a move to pay them both the same ?
A whole 30 mins of Jeremy Kyle?
Sorry, but that seems excessive to the point of being outrageously dangerous to me.
Have some respect for the lives of others - 3 mins is surely more than enough to induce the requisite degree of PTSD and guarantee nightmares for years on end?
"A whole 30 mins of Jeremy Kyle?"
Don't do it ..... it just is not worth it !!!
You think you can handle it, and its not like you cannot stop, if you want, at any time .....
Thats what they all said but there is NO such thing as 'Mind Bleach' it will be too late, the damage once done will live with you rest of your life !!!
Remember ..... cool kids don't do 'Jeremy Kyle' and don't allow their friends to either !!!
;)
PARENTS should be educating kids about healthy relationships.
What would the parents know - we're in a sick society that still holds to illogical fallacies like 'sin' and body shame in some form or other - would be best for a break from broken adult guidance for a generation to clear some of the crap out of the human system.
Equal pay? I have a friend who likes to hang out in some of the seedier dance clubs in London. She claims there is a porn studio upstairs at one of the clubs where the guys who run it make lots of movies. The girls pay to be in the movies so they get VIP treatment at the club for a few weeks after each movie. They apparently have no shortage of girls willing to pay even with stories about diseases going around.
For a politician it certainly is. Lots of bluster and thunder at the pulpit, much moral high ground and easy brownie points to gather, and no worry about consequences because Porn Will Find A Way.
Besides, it beats worrying about what to say concerning Brexit or any other actual, serious issue that has no real solution.
Then, once out of the limelight, it's back to PornHub for a relaxing quickie.
Oh, and concerning equal pay, in a world where every other job type available sees women paid less, I'm happy to leave them the high ground on this one.
EPIC...
There is no way to win - either way we lose.
- If it (sort of, in any way) works, then we'll all lose ALL privacy on-line because you can guarantee that other categories of "sites/information" will be added and there'll be no way to be legally counter-culture (anonymously)
- If it fails, then they'll think up something worse, because they're "thinking of the children".
Here's news
- the children who "stumble" on on-line depravity will still stumble on the badly behaved site: no improvement
- the teenagers WILL find those sites that don't follow the rules, and THAT is where the predators will find them
- Mr Moderate Joe Public will discover TOR, VPN, and annonymizers, and suddenly GCHQ will have the devils own job sorting the real subversives from the heaps of end to end encoded smut...
ARGH!
"But to be exempted from the rule, won't the politicians have to provide their personal details to the sites, so that they can be identified and do not need to provide them when browsing for porn?"
Ah, there will be a "UK politician" account on all porn sites, with a password of "password1234", and it will leak rather quickly. Well, first it'll be a little dripping, then it will be a large spurt.
One of the other questions is what this means for actual educational sites that exist in the sphere. Goedele Liekens highlighted the woeful lack of sex education in our schools, which led to children looking on-line in the first place. What happened? They found smut and fictional crap which results in them growing up as sexually dysfunctional adults. (Sex In Class, broadcast 2016)
There has been progress in sex education, including the right of the child to determine whether they want the classes... ie. removing the right of the parent to deny their child access to sex ed. You can guarantee that this is going to get messy in such households, however.
I have run one such site since 2002, with no membership or fee barrier... and I'm concerned that my site will get targetted, and what could happen as a result. And no, I'm not giving anyone the URL... if you find it... you find it. (however, it does give a very handy alternative e-mail address to give to marketers)
I've e-mailed my MP numerous times over the years on this subject, and I even believe that the 2008 law that the Labour party brought in, actually cost them the election (the numbers are there to support it) ... and yes, I fed back to the Obscene Publication Act consultation that went around.
The laws and attitudes to sex and education in this country are dire, and very likely play a part in our societies personal relationship problems... domestic violence, etc. and it's about time that our legislators actually took their hands off the reins rather than tightening the bridle further (apologies to Pony Players)
Only time will tell.
Goedele Liekens highlighted the woeful lack of sex education in our schools, which led to children looking on-line in the first place. What happened? They found smut and fictional crap which results in them growing up as sexually dysfunctional adults. (Sex In Class, broadcast 2016)
What an excellent program, it should be made compulsory for all parents, teachers and people who want any say in the education of youngsters (especially politicians).
I'd love to see her heading up a commission to set new rules on sex ed in schools. We might end up screwing up a lot less peoples lives.
That reminds me of my two experiences with sex education.
When I was in high school, back in the mid '70s, we had our sex education class. One single class, where we where given a book about sex education, and expected to read it quietly in our science class, and don't ask questions. I read through it rather quickly, since my parents had already provided me with better sex education books a year earlier. I knew it all already. Much to my dismay, this fact didn't make me more popular with the female students in my class. Perhaps finishing first just isn't popular, er reading the book I meant.
Fast forward to the year 2000, where I got a quick demonstration of the state of the progress of sex education in Australia. A friends ten year old showed me the popup sex education book being used at the time. So the age of sex education had been lowered, the material was more interesting (pop up genitals), and the kids are allowed to take them home.
Fast forward to today, with that rate of progress I'm expecting toddlers to be reading "My First Porno, Fun with Dick and Jane" *, and watching "Peppa Pig does Porno" on YouTube, in pre-school. I don't currently have any friends with toddlers, so no idea. Things are no doubt different in UK, where "No Sex Please, We're British" was a thing.
Paris Hilton icon, not coz I wish she was involved in my sex education, she was born later than that, but that someone that looks like her was.
* Yes, I'm aware that movie had nothing to do with sex, it fits the "My First Reader" style of names though, plus has the word "Dick" in it.
"Goedele Liekens highlighted the woeful lack of sex education in our schools, which led to children looking on-line in the first place."
I don't think that is the lack of education that led children to online porn. They may be well educated, watching porn cannot be compared to a lesson: it is exciting, naughty and forbidden.
But when left to make their own choice, children will not go to the worse stuff (kinky and full depravity is disgusting even to most adults, why would it not be to most children?) Remove the interdiction and watching porn soon becomes repetitive and boring and the children will move to something else
I think that the issue, @AC is what else is there for them to move to?
The light porn that's common, has very stereotypical, fictional sexual roles. That's what the younger people are likely to come across first. The better quality independent porn generated in the UK is going to be harder to find because it's so easy for the authorities to clamp down on. That leaves the really hard core stuff coming from some more Eastern countries where I'm pretty damn sure that the only safe word is, "I forgoe my wages." and even then, I doubt that this is an option for whoever is on the receiving end of some hideous violence. I've got a strong stomach and I've seen some things, but I've never managed to make it to the end of one of those vids... in fact, I broke contact with the one person who I knew, that had them.
And that probably makes the point, I guess... they were physical media and not obtained on-line in the first place. Files that can be copied from mobile phone, to mobile phone, at ever increasing speeds as technology marches forward.
As always, the Government reaches for the big Ban Hammer, trying to solve a "problem" by hitting it with an unnecessary, unworkable and unneeded law that will do nothing to protect children, but makes for good headlines in the right-wing media.
There is no way to stop access to adult content, not even with a Great Firewall of Britain (even though, I'm sure the Government would love this...) so the sensible way to deal with the issue is to *educate* children about this stuff before they see it, either by looking for it themselves or their schoolmates shoving a mobile phone under their nose and saying "look at this!"
Of course this will outrage the Mary Whitehouse brigade and other such moralistic prigs who believe that children shouldn't know anything about sex, which makes as much sense as thinking that if you don't teach them about swimming, they won't go near the water and risk drowning...
That's why the Yanks call politicians "Lawmakers". As most of them are just that, Lawyers what else do they know to do? Well, apart from those who have done PPE at Uni and never had a proper job.
With PPE Grads and Lawyers... How worse can it get?
Don't anser that.
Anybody remember Operation Ore back in 2002 that resulted in several suicides over accusations of child porn.
Turns out the child porn link was really a link to the US government mandated age checking via a porn hub
which used the ability to make a CC payment age verification.
The FBI 'expert' claimed it was a child porn link and so thousands of people ended up being prosecuted and placed on offenders registers.
"But it can't happen here" say those who shout "Won't somebody think of the children."
The US Childrens Online Privacy Protection Act Came into force in 1998 and attempted to limit the collection and use of under 13s data by online sites.
This is why there is a minimum age on facebook accounts. but walk into any school on either side of the pond and ask any 8 yr old how many friends they have on facebook ....
Now if they can't get this right and they've had 20 years, how exactly does HMG expect this to work...
"Now if they can't get this right and they've had 20 years, how exactly does HMG expect this to work..."
I don't think they do expect it to work. In fact they probably know it won't be particularly effective.
Some smart people do advise the government, even though the decisions the government makes suggests otherwise.
However, from a citizen control/monitoring/profiling point of view it is a useful exercise. And for swinging a few votes under the guise of protecting children it also serves a purpose.
All this really amounts to is a government appearing to take action to protect children. Which the general public will see as a positive action rather than the ineffective sound bite made to placate that it is.
well wont someone think of the adults for a change?
If we explain to MPs that their pr0n habits will be leaked in either an Ashley Madison or Cambridge analytica style breach, and world +dog will know that they have a penchant for nazi bondage, forcing them to hang head in shame and never be re-elected, perhaps they may think about this again....
At home I have several internet filters,including porn filters, to prevent my children accidentally stumbling on porn, however, they can be bypassed in seconds. Simply opening an incognito Chrome session, navigating to Google Image search and searching for the (adult) human body part of your interest, will result in thousands of images being returned. Fair enough, you can't then actually navigate to these sites, however, the thumbnails are more then plenty to keep a teenager occupied.
I think everyone knows that this is a chocolate fireguard. But you should not ignore the law of (un)intended consequences that this grants the police et al. to ignore personal privacy. IIRC similar scams have been used in the US to provide "probably cause". And any time someone gets locked up the defence of "we're doing it to defend children" will no doubt be trotted out.
and once the kids are bored with Google images they can always just subscribe to Twitter and find more porn than they'll get through in a life time. I understand that there are no plans to include such sites in any ban. The politicians are much to keen on their favourite mouth piece to want to restrict access to it. Plenty of other "social media" sites are also full of smut.
It is possible to do this without risk of a data breach.
1. Age verifier uses PII to verify age
2. Age verifier issues credentials
3. AV deletes PII
Then, in accessing the pron, the AV authenticates the credentials and you're off.
This presents an issue with stuff like password recovery if you're not storing an email addy though. You could do it by storing a hashed version for verification I suppose.
Of course, credentials will leak and spread round schools almost instantly, but that was going to happen anyway.
Not sure why I'm thinking about this - it's a stupid idea just introduced as a sop to the Daily Mail (think of the children - here are photos of some in bikinis) brigade.
And as 66 says above, the security services aren't going to be best pleased when suddenly 20% of the public are routinely using VPNs.
the upside to the Snowden revelations was the massive uptake of End to End encryption. Still only a small percentage, but we're now seeing millions of Whatsapp/Telegram/Signal etc users, instead of the few tens of thousands who were using it.
The upside of crass authoritarianism like this proposed childish version of Age Verification will be, as you suggest, a massive uptake in VPN technology.
These assaults on basic liberties are training citizens in the vital art of subverting and bypassing government. Not yet quite at critical mass, but every little helps. Hopefully we can get there before it's too late and you've got a generation of nanny-state raised kids who don't know any better
"Not sure what is worse, children watching porn or children getting paid to do porn"
Hmm. I'm not a betting man, but I'm pretty sure *most* people would have a fairly clear opinion on which of those is worse. (I expect you do, too, and it was just a rhetorical flourish that came out a bit iffy.)
I participate on a few adult forums that are based in the US, very much doubt that they will implement any ages checks to please the UK authority, i don't even know if they would be required to implement age verification as social media sites don't have to, and a forum is another kind of of social media site. But even if it does get blocked it will be trivial to bypass with even the pornhub offering a free VPN app for your phone to get around any blocks.
No doubt a policy that will probably have zero effect on kids who want to see porn from finding porn will just please the Daily Fail reading voters and cause everyone's internet prices to increase to pay for all the filtering and monitoring.
i put this debate in the same basket as selling alcohol: the material is safe to use in controlled quntities, but when used irresponsibly, can lead to detrimental health effects and psychological and social problems.
we have statutory regulations on alcohol selling and distribution. maybe its time for porn to have the same?
"we have statutory regulations on alcohol selling and distribution. maybe its time for porn to have the same?"
At least here in Oz we do. You have to be over 18 to buy or view porn. You can't import porn with the women having small tits, coz that's classified by the customs officials as child porn (I don't think there is a matching small dick rule). As well as other sundry rules and regulations.
Though unlike alcohol, there's no laws about driving under the influence of porn, no random roadside porn testing, and sex shops don't throw you out if you have indulged too much.
there's a pertinent axiom here: the internet routes itself around censorship. its hardwired into the protocals and applications. every barrier has a workaround.
the internet is the free-est expression of the human spirit. that porn, social media and spam are the biggest usages tells you everything you need to know about being Human.
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