Never mind going after the little guys, like traders, go after the likes of Amazon, Apple and the rest of the big tax dodgers first !
HMRC told AGAIN to toughen up on VAT-dodging online traders
The UK taxman has been told to crack down on online traders that aren't paying their fair share of VAT when they sell on sites like Amazon and eBay. The House of Commons Public Accounts Committee has been pushing the government to stop the scourge of online marketplaces damaging UK business and the government's coffers for …
COMMENTS
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Friday 29th June 2018 13:36 GMT AMBxx
Re: Amazon, eBay and the rest
Annoyingly, Amazon know which of their traders are VAT registered. If you use a business account, you have the option to filter them all out.
Not only do the VAT-dodgers undercut UK businesses illegally, it's also a problem when you buy something for business expecting to reclaim the VAT and find the seller isn't registered.
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Friday 29th June 2018 10:53 GMT tiggity
How hard can it be?
"HMRC is also consulting on a new way to collect VAT that would allow the tax to be taken from online payments in real time. However, the committee said that "even if this were an appropriate method, introduction of split payment is some way off"."
It's not exactly difficult (so long as you handle zero vat rated items) to implement something like this.
Any point of sale grabbing of tax by the taxman is potentially good, by virtue of it being harder to evade the tax
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Friday 29th June 2018 11:20 GMT Bavaria Blu
not a high priority
It seems stopping these tax scams is not a priority for HMRC. Recently the UK was found not to be implementing import duties effectively.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43328398
In my experience with the UK and Germany, tax collection is very lax in the UK. Perhaps this "red tape" or following the rules is seen as anti-business. Ironically illegal imports are bad for (local) businesses who can't compete with online shops who play fast and loose with the rules.
I would imagine HMRC lacks the resources to implement the rules properly.
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Friday 29th June 2018 11:20 GMT Mike Shepherd
Amazon
Amazon is convenient for small quantities of electronic development items. But their Chinese traders (despite being VAT-registered in the UK) often struggle to produce a valid VAT invoice or receipt. They may omit their registration number or the figures quoted just don't make sense.
Amazon claims to act only as broker. It's not clear that this has yet been tested in court. (They collect your cash, but claim that any problems are between you and the seller). If the cash receiver were liable to pay the VAT, they'd likely tighten up very quickly.
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Friday 29th June 2018 11:28 GMT Bavaria Blu
Re: Amazon
Yes as a broker amazon are no more liable than the bank who transfers the money. Making brokers responsible for paying VAT would make a lot of sense.
I once bought a fake Casio watch on Amazon. I was really surprised that both Casio and Amazon didn't really give a toss. Due to Gresham's Law "the bad drives out the good" which means if a marketplace contains fake goods, no one will be prepared to pay the price of the real goods. So the sellers of the genuine article cannot operate.
Perhaps Casio thought they would rather customers went to Argos (fair enough) and Amazon thought, if the fakes supplier pays me commission, why should I care?
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Friday 29th June 2018 15:16 GMT Yet Another Anonymous coward
Re: Amazon
Even worse, Amazon co-mingle stock. So if you buy a Casio from a totally reputable retailer on Amazon you are just as likely to get the fake one shipped to their warehouse by Dell Boy as you are to get the genuine one if you buy from Trotters Independant Trading Fulfilled by Amazon.
That's why nobody buys sd cards or (non-amazon brand) batteries on Amazon anymore
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Saturday 30th June 2018 04:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Amazon
I buy electronic hardware of all kinds on Amazon, yes, including SD cards. Never a problem although I only buy SanDisk simply for the fact that we were talking on Twitter and one compained that his SD card had died. Less that five minutes later SanDisk wanted his particulars so they could send him a new card. That's service worth paying for here.
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Friday 29th June 2018 12:39 GMT MonkeyCee
Re: Amazon
"But their Chinese traders (despite being VAT-registered in the UK) often struggle to produce a valid VAT invoice or receipt."
That's because they aren't VAT registered, they are just claiming so, and/or using another companies VAT number.
Amazon doesn't do anything to check if a VAT registration is legit, nor do they seem to care when you point it out to them.
They are also remarkably relaxed about fake goods too.
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Friday 29th June 2018 11:45 GMT codejunky
Hmm
"It is estimated that the UK is missing out on between £1bn and £1.5bn a year from online VAT fraud,"
So the claim. And once implemented I wonder what the actual figure will be if anything. kinda like all those fraudsters with offshore investments turning out to be doing nothing wrong, instead to actually follow the laws of the various countries.
Will see.
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Friday 29th June 2018 21:33 GMT C. P. Cosgrove
And ?
On-line is fine for generic goods and I like cheaper as much as the next woman or man, but you can't beat brick and mortar stores for getting hands-on feel for some things. Unhappily this is getting harder.
But if cheaper means tax evasion somewhere along the line that hurts every one. Honest businesses go out of business and the individual tax rate has to be increased which hurts me !
Chris Cosgrove
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Monday 2nd July 2018 13:15 GMT codejunky
Re: How much tax did Vodafone manage to pay for last year?
@AC
"Doesn't the law of diminishing returns demand that HMRC start hassling the big players for their fare share of tax"
They did. Then they found that the big players were paying their fair share (all that was legally due). If we need more tax money it must come from the middle class. When the middle class realise that they will start asking why we pay so much tax and get so little for it.
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Tuesday 3rd July 2018 01:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
I got a visit from the TaxWoman
HMRC came to my house once, I live in a part of Glasgow most would be uncomfortable walking/driving through (any time of day). She presented her credentials then told me I owed about £250 from four years previously, I was stunned, I said what about vodafone, starbucks, amazon, why aren't you at their door. She even chuckled and said "you never mentioned the football" (ask a Glaswedgian, this was 2014).
I asked for details of why I owed, she couldn't get through to the office so took my phone number then randomly called me for weeks offering to let me pay it back at lower and lower weekly amounts, ended up they said we'll take a fiver a week, I said OK send me the details of why I owe the money. A year later they took it off me and my new Missus through tax credits, cheeky bastards.
Fours years later, house visit, numerous phone calls, surely all that cost more than 250 quid. Maybe I'm special.