Yep. Don't want to look like the Chinese when we hand over a prisoner (student Otto Warmbier) who dies when he hits US soil.
UK Foreign Office offers Assange a doctor if he leaves Ecuador embassy
A UK Foreign Office minister has offered cupboard-dwelling WikiLeaker Julian Assange access to medical attention if he leaves Ecuador's London embassy. Sir Alan Duncan told Parliament this afternoon that the British government is "increasingly concerned" about Assange's health. "It is our wish that this can be brought to an …
COMMENTS
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 00:55 GMT Teiwaz
The US cannot call Assange a traitor, for that is someone who betrays their own country
Americans never had much a grasp on English, it gets warped into a strange parody as soon as it's plane touches the tarmac. Sounds similar and communication is possible at a basic level, but a lot of words mean completely different things.
Their grasp on the emotive, even if it makes little sense, is spot on though.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 15:39 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: Remember the Great Vowel Shift
In my days it was called a core dump...
Fair enough, Old Timer. Just don't ask any of us young folk to inspect your logs.
[I don't know who I'm kidding here with this us young folk? I'm at least slalomming down the final slope to middle age, if even assuming that's still ahead of me doesn't count as wishful thinking.]
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 17:54 GMT Vincent Ballard
Many things but not a traitor to the US
Assange may be many things, and I can think of a few pejorative terms I would apply to him, but any Americans who think that he is a traitor to the US are objectively morons. You can't commit treason against a country of which you have never been a citizen.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 10:06 GMT phuzz
Re: Many things but not a traitor to the US
"That never prevented American-born Irish William Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) being executed as a traitor by Britain, despite never having been British."
He had had a British passport (which he'd lied about his nationality to get), and the court decided that that made him a British citizen and thus a traitor. He appealed but was turned down, so legally yes he was a British citizen, as far as the British judicial system of the time was concerned.
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 21:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Vincent
"but any Americans who think that he is a traitor to the US are objectively morons. You can't commit treason against a country of which you have never been a citizen."
Not only that but what about the people involved in all the (often) illegal and usually questionable practices which got exposed?
That's the main part I never understood: if they had followed protocol, if they had stuck with the rules then they wouldn't have been exposed. And the worst part is that most of those are also getting away with all this. Because... reasons and the greater good I guess?
There's a reason why the saying "Don't shoot the messenger" exists. Not trying to imply that this also applies here of course, because messengers usually only deliver messages and don't rape or harass women.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 09:55 GMT LucreLout
Re: Many things but not a traitor to the US
You can't commit treason against a country of which you have never been a citizen.
Weirdly though, you can break their laws, even if you've never been there. Its that whole global reach thing again. Mind you, the UK does the same thing with tax, so we're not exactly free & clear on this ourselves....
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 18:25 GMT Suricou Raven
His paranoia is understandable. And justified.
He was involved in the release of highly sensitive information which reflected poorly on a superpower. A superpower which, in recent years, had shown itsself willing to resort to secret kidnappings and off-the-records prisons, and to detain people indefinitely without charge of trial. If I were in his place, I'd suspect the US was plotting to get hold of me too. He may well even be right.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
(Doesn't make him less of a general arse, though.)
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 21:28 GMT streaky
Re: His paranoia is understandable. And justified.
He was involved in the release of highly sensitive information which reflected poorly on a superpower.
The real problem is the people who got it out which the US full well knows. If the US could figure out what to charge Assange with they'd have had him extradited years ago; it's very easy to do, even from where he is.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Doesn't mean they are either. I don't believe for a second Assange is this paranoid, if he was he'd have never come to the UK where it's easy to get extradited to the US in the first place, he'd have stayed in Sweden or done what shall be henceforth known as "doing a Snowden". At the time this would have been very easy. He WANTED it to go this way because nobody is actually that stupid.
He's a useful idiot and his story will end the same way as the stories of all the useful idiots before him; forgotten and unwanted and that's what really scares him.
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 22:11 GMT Jan 0
Re: Er wot?
Sometimes I think that some commentards have no grasp of the history of the society they live in.
If WOT, was good enough for Chad during WWII, then it's good enough for a Limey like me.
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/19/a3568719.shtml if you really don't know about Chad. Beer, because of its technical origins.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 14:27 GMT GIRZiM
Re: Er wot?
"Sometimes I think that some commentards have no grasp of the history of the society they live in."
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 11:34 GMT I ain't Spartacus
How are we violating his human rights? Doctors can go in and see him. I don't know why Ecuador (or he) can't stump up for a mobile dentist. I'll do the work for free if he likes - string -> door handle -> slam! That should do the trick. Obviously he'd struggle to get an MRI machine through the door...
But if he pops out and gets arrested, he'll get proper medical treatment. Either in the prison hospital, or taken under guard to a normal hospital if he requires specialist treatment. As is normal.
He has human rights. But so do the people who he allegedly raped. And their human rights require that he face trial. Sadly Sweden has a 10 year statute of limitations on rape, so he may well be able to dodge his trial if he waits long enough, but until then we have a duty to both treat him and also to ship him off to Sweden to face trial.
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 20:12 GMT MeRp
WiFi coverage
It seems, with mesh wifi tech, that getting him coverage from without, perhaps with an additional single mesh repeater within, would be fairly trivial, if people were so inclined. That is, of course, unless the UK gov would actually go through the effort to kibosh such an attempt. I suppose, though, it may be considered a security concern for the embassy itself.
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 23:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: WiFi coverage
He is next door to Harrods and on a residential(ish) street with a *lot* of APs nearby. At least one of those will be running WEP or have a PSK of "Password1" or "hanscrescent" or something equally stupid. If he does not have internet access, then I'd be quite surprised.
He's here (Google Maps, Street View) That droopy flag is Ecuadorean and those green boxes to the right of the iron railings are BT jobbies. Yes he has the internet rather close by.
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 20:32 GMT Fruit and Nutcase
Talk face-to-face with a UK GP
As reported here yesterday about Uber's use of the "Push Doctor" service - if only he had internet access, Assange would be able to avail of the same service.
icon: Pamela Anderson in a Nurse's Uniform
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Tuesday 26th June 2018 21:24 GMT Screwed
I spend all too many hours on health forums where we see all too many reports of inaccessible healthcare in the UK. Whether delays of weeks for GP appointments, people being told to buy their own medicines on the internet because the NHS won't pay (thank you, CCGs), people being refused referrals, and devastating ignorance even among senior consultants.
I'd be delighted if the Department of Health were as concerned for the health of the citizens of the UK as the FO appear to be for that of JA.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 06:21 GMT streaky
Any 6 year old looking at the statistics of how much the NHS is paying for paracetamol and other stupid nonsense that you can buy huge packs of for like 20p shouldn't have much trouble understanding why those rules are exist. Any other country in the world you'd be shot in the face for even asking.
As for refused referrals - maybe actually need one and you'll get one? 99.9999999% of things that happen medically on the NHS are because that's the right thing medically, excepting negligence, which again, happens all over the world. Only difference is in the UK you actually see the numbers. "devastating ignorance even among senior consultants" - my lord.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 09:24 GMT flayman
What forums please, and I'll happily debunk them. It's the Ministry of Health, by the way. Sounds like you might be American. If I'm right, know that your health care system (despite and not because of ACA) is awful unless you have lots of money. Insurance companies go to great lengths to deny coverage. 2/3 of mortgage foreclosures in the US ten years ago were due to unpredictable and unmanageable medical expenses. I'm an American expat in Britain. I know a good thing when I see it. It's struggling under Tory cuts, but it's still superior.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 10:06 GMT LucreLout
It's struggling under Tory cuts, but it's still superior.
And yet it hasn't weathered a single cut. Not one. The NHS isn't short of money, its simply spending way too much on the wrong things - too many admin staff (middle managers, clerks etc), too much on pensions, too many very dated working practices etc etc etc
Reform is what the NHS needs, real root and branch reform. The NHS could be the best service on the planet, but for as long as people blindly lionise it, that will simply never happen.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 10:51 GMT flayman
For all its faults, at point of use it is a far superior health service to the fragmented and antagonistic American system of insurance underwriting. It could stand reform, certainly. But I'm fed up of twats like Farage feeding lies to US media about it. Health is every bit a public concern as education.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 16:38 GMT flayman
Re: Solid facts?
Yeah, fair enough. I should have looked more carefully at the Google search results on the name of the department. Thumb me down on that. I don't give a sh1t. My facts regarding the rate of healthcare related foreclosures in the US are well documented though. And often there was insurance that refused to cover the treatment costs. This happens at the worst possible time, and it's what you can expect when insurance companies tally treatment costs in their ledgers as "medical losses". A single payer system removes the insurance underwriting aspect and ensures that health care recipients have access to treatment when it's most needed without having to worry about going bankrupt.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 11:05 GMT flayman
If he comes out then Sweden will renew their extradition request for anything that is not outside their statute of limitations. Then he'll be held without bail until he can be handed over. Then he'll be tried and either acquitted or convicted. Meanwhile the US could put in an extradition request which would surely be refused. Then he'll go free either immediately or after serving his sentence. Then he will absolutely never be granted residency in Sweden. Then he will carry on being a self serving arsehole afraid of being sent to the States but more at risk of that than had he remained in all along.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 04:31 GMT jgarbo
Re: Pick your own poison
Oh, I bet your cut the crusts off your sandwiches and read the Bible before bed. There is no Justice. Assange's charges were rigged, his accusers recanted, the Swedes dropped the charges. The Brits will send him to their masters in the US, thence to Gitmo forever. Get it, twerp?
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 07:12 GMT Alister
Re: Pick your own poison
Get it, twerp?
I don't think you get it, do you.
Assange IS a fugitive from justice - he jumped bail and went running to the Ecuadorian embassy. He's still wanted for that.
The Brits won't send him to the US unless there's an extradition warrant issued, which there isn't, and never has been.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 09:07 GMT flayman
Re: Pick your own poison
He also cost the UK millions of pounds in police monitoring to prevent him stealing away in the night (or the day) and uphold our obligations to the requesting country. He also cost his suretors hundreds of thousands of pounds in forfeit. But he's not getting special treatment. I expect any fugitive returned to justice to be treated humanely and provided medical care as needed.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 15:47 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: Pick your own poison
his accusers recanted, the Swedes dropped the charges.
jgarbo,
Ah nice to see the Assange apologists still getting the old lies out. Even after all these years of them being debunked*.
Julian, is that you? I thought you weren't allowed internet access.
*BTW, is it possible to "bunk" a supposed fact and prove its truth? Given you can debunk one.
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Thursday 28th June 2018 07:14 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Pick your own poison
Assange's charges were rigged, his accusers recanted, the Swedes dropped the charges.
Really?
1 - charges were were established after a second interview with the girls in question. Who, I might add, have never been given a chance to tell their side of the story - what about THEIR rights?
2 - the accusers have not recanted, because it moved from a complaint to a legal investigation. In other words, the accuser is now the state, not the girls. Also neatly addressed any attempt to influence the girls
3 - charges were never dropped, they expired. There's a vast difference between the two.
From what I have heard of Assange, my bet would be on a detected STD - that would explain both the request by the girls for a test, and his refusal to do the decent thing and indeed have a test done (translated: there is a fair chance the issue was already known to St Jules™, I certainly wouldn't put it past him) - it's exactly that refusal that turned the request from the girls into a criminal investigation by the state.
However, all of this is just theory. Until the girls speak out we won't know, and they have been the losing party here. Remember that the next time you start whining about Human Rights for Assange.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 10:09 GMT LucreLout
Re: Pick your own poison
He's escaped accountability for years and that should be considered during sentencing.
Indeed. Realistically, its hard to imagine him not being given the maximum term. If hiding in an embassy, costing the country tens of millions in policing, trying to time out rape charges, year after year, while continuing public and wanton twattery all over the internet doesn't deserve the maximum stick, then what actually does? I think anything less than the full bid would leave the judge open to question and being forced to justify themselves.
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Wednesday 27th June 2018 11:55 GMT Velv
Disappearing
The chief WikiLeaker has always said he feared the allegations were a way of getting him into the legal clutches of a country that might turn a blind eye if he disappeared and reappeared in an American prison
Of all the countries likely to permit this to happen, I'd put Sweden lower down the list than the UK, and both below Ecuador. But hey, his fans can keep pushing the same fake news until Uncle Donald really does get hold of him. Sad.