Unbreakable smart lock devastated to discover screwdrivers exist It's never easy to crack into a market with an innovative new product but makers of the "world's first smart fingerprint padlock" have made one critical error: they forgot about the existence of screwdrivers. Tapplock raised $320,000 in 2016 for their product that would allow you to use just your finger to open the " …
This seems like the stoopid ADT signs that people used to put in their front lawns to make the miscreants believe that there was any security at all.
Or the US TSA.
Now, me: I have two very hungry attack dogs (60 and 100#) as well as a bunch of cats that will trip you up. So be careful!
When I first played Deus Ex, I found a helicopter that, when targeted, showed the help-text "Attack Helicopter".
I unloaded several clips into it before I realised it was a noun, not an instruction..
WTF is an "attack dog"?
Real one? Caucasian Shepherd or to a lesser extent a Bulgarian Karakachan. They are originally bred dual purpose - primary as a sheep dog, secondary to defend households including against armed raiders. Anyone who is not identified as a member of the "family" is automatically identified as a target and it literally goes for the kill. There is no messing about, warnings, etc. A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.
They are considered to be the "most effective perimeter defense" in places where the law is err... a b it .. flexible. I would not use them in a developed country as nobody will give me an insurance for their use as a guard team.
So if the GP is claiming he has an attack dog and it is not one of these, he has an attack toy. Not an attack dog.
Our dog was a failed lurcher, and one of those rescue animals. She knew to lead visitors to where we were about the farmyard. It was one of those awkward incidents, a local with severe mental disability, who was going around trying locks.
He got a nasty suck.
It was enough.
Security has to match the need.
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Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders. But I like the neopolitan mastiff as they have some interesting traits. They tend not to bark much and are naturally protective. So if they hear an intruder they don't usually go crazy barking at them, they will just quietly go search them out. Once they find them then the growling starts, by then it's too late to get away, the intruder is dinner.
Reminds me of the blue English setter we had when I was a teenager. Almost never barked but when he did it was this huge, deep, menacing thing.
The main deterrent factor of a dog, at least when you have neighbours, is that it will bark and both ultra friendly and very nasty dogs will bark. I know a super soppy labradoodle who makes all manner of noises including barking when he meets me as he likes me a lot. When I look after him he barks at all visitors and when I change the batteries in the slave door chime, making it chime.
When you're out a pooch will ensure your entry to the property will be suitably advertised to all and sundry even if the burglar then gets licked to death.
A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.
Really? What if the attacker is, oh, let's say, in a car?
Mind you, I'm not advocating for attack dogs or attack humans. But I think your threat model is a little simplistic if it finds those two mitigations equivalent.
(There are, of course, attack classes in which the dogs are more effective. They're less susceptible to threats against family members, for example.)
"No frikkin' lasers?"
I think you have attack dogs confused with attack goldfish, frikkin' lasers are an aquatic animal weapon. Laser guided weapons might be an option, but that might get the attack cats involved, things could get messy.
Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders.
Crap. It's irresponsible and cruel to expect a dog to defend your property. Semi competent burglars deal with them quite easily and it's usually a sad outcome for the poor animal. Several so-called trained guard dogs round our way have ended up either blinded or dead. When I was a kid my neighour's dog was dealt with using a can of oven spray oven cleaner from the garden shed, the burglars opens the door just enough and then sprayed the poor german shepherd in the face.
So you are saying all your precious valuables are in your home? Not the backyard shed or a storage unit? And all I need is a couple good ribeye steaks? Good to know. Thanks for the advice.
PS - I also speak "cat".
Avoid devices that are connected to the cloud aka Internet. Typically insanely insecure and full of surveillance tech (mic, cam, fingerprint).
Build something useful yourself, with Arduino or Raspherry Pi. Keep your old trusted "dumb" analog devices that will outlast generations.
If you liked that you'll love this.
How to defeat high security locks with a paperclip and other fun tricks.
DEFCON 19 Insecurity: An Analysis Of Current Commercial And Government Security Lock Designs
True, it seems pretty crap as far as hardware goes.
But compared with software or operating systems that are supposed to be secure, it would count as invincible.
Seriously, given how many design and implementation flaws there are in most apps, most code and most versions of Windows and Linux, a lock of comparable quality to them would be made out of chocolate with the password written on the outside of the box it came in.
This is obviously a serious cock-up, but, to be fair, no padlock is invincible, and that applies for most (all?) security systems. They are just ways of reducing the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it. The more effective the lock, the less likely some opportunist passing-by bit of shit will have a go at it. If a garden shed needs a noisy angle-grinder to open it will probably be effective. The same lock will not be so good in a remote location on a shed full of gold bullion.
If the contents are valuable enough, it can be opened!
Ah, but that's just what you'd like us all to think, isn't it?
I bet you're one of those people who puts a really expensive looking lock on a garden shed full of horse-manure, situated miles away in the middle of Dartmoor, to encourage thieves to waste their time breaking into it because there must be something valuable behind such an expensive lock.
Well, I'm wise to your reverse psychology tricks and not fooled for a second - I'm gonna break into your coal cellar with the crappy lock on it where you keep all your valuables
Ha!
Nice try but no cigar; I'm not falling for that - you just want me to get covered in it, looking for valuables that aren't there.
No, now I'm even more convinced they're in the coal cellar.
Haha! Tapplock have now ‘adjusted’ their website to include:
“Share smartphone access remotely with unlimited users. Set permanent access or limited access with flexible dates and times, and feel free to revoke access whenever you want. Track and monitor access history with time and location from the Tapplock app.”
Stable door ... bolting horse...
That there is a perfect example of the very issue you are attempting to illustrate - people not thinking about things properly.
It's "Bolting horse... stable door ..."
If you do it your way then all you end up with is "Stable door" - which is no good to anyone wanting to illustrate your point, is it?
I think security depends a lot on whether you believe in a Stainless theory of economics, or not. An LSE graduate may buy this lock, a graduate from the James diGriz Academy would sell it to them. If you sell horses, you'd perhaps also want to sell inferior doors. If you sell the perfect door, you may only sell one per customer. It's a delicate balancing act to keep the wheels of commerce greased.
(also curious if you could open this lock by performing a gentle interrogation of it's IC using a blowtorch. Tried and tested method for getting something to give up it's secrets, and in this case, battery expansion may cause the back to pop off.)
The first "Slippery" Jim diGriz mention I've seen on the Reg. Nice one.
You don't need to be a Stainless Steel Rat to circumvent this lock.
The only application I can see is for a gym locker where you don't want to have a bog standard key on you, but that's just being silly. I've never had an issue with my gym locker key and I don't see a $100 lock being a great investment. I expect if I were to lose my key while at the gym, they likely have bolt cutters and I could have a staff member remove my lock and assure themselves that it was my stuff inside via my ID in my wallet or phone combo, etc.
I'd hate to have the battery inside go flat or fail. I'm pretty good about making plenty of key copies and stashing key rings here and there for backup. I have a "water brother" in town with a set of my house keys in case of emergency and I a set of his.
One more fail is if somebody has a look at the lock and decides to screw up the sensor just for fun.
This.
This is also where it fails hard. How many seconds at a time will a person spend interacting with it? They could have scored a few points for a small capacitor-charging hand crank or pull chain or whatever, but LiPo? Hmm, another mandatorily battery-powered central feature... reminds me of that smart gun that was probably really dumb just like LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE with 'smart' tacked on. Just quit already.
The first "Slippery" Jim diGriz mention I've seen on the Reg. Nice one.You don't need to be a Stainless Steel Rat to circumvent this lock.
Perhaps oddly, Harry Harrison taught me a lot about security. Or ways it could be subverted, bypassed or generally finessed into doing Jim's bidding. Which included early examples of hacking, hardware and computer. Since then, there's been a long line of technofetishism resulting in products like this. For $100, someone could buy a far more secure lock, but it wouldn't have a fingerprint sensor. Or a blue LED. And it joins a whole slew of 'keyless' technology for people that can't manage a humble key and/or key chain. It's an interesting bit of social conditioning.
One more fail is if somebody has a look at the lock and decides to screw up the sensor just for fun.
I think it'd be slipperier to pop the back, steal the battery, screw the back on and film the reaction. Could potentially make more than $100 off YouTube views. I'm also puzzled why companies that make 'smart' locks like this miss the point of a lock. They're a deterent or a delaying mechanism and for this particular lock, it would seem easy to slap a piezo shrieker into it as a tamper alarm.
"(also curious if you could open this lock by performing a gentle interrogation of it's IC using a blowtorch. Tried and tested method for getting something to give up it's secrets, and in this case, battery expansion may cause the back to pop off.)"
That there is a 'Elf&Safety issue for your average thief, what if the battery catches fire and explodes? Should be made illegal, wont someone think of the thieves!
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"However the lock is invincible to the people who do not have a screwdriver."
I think those are sold... almost everywhere, except maybe restaurants (screwdrivers, that is.)
I think I need a screwdriver now. (the kind you drink)
I first saw the JerryRigEverything video couple weeks ago. I'll stick to my (not quite quite as easy to compromise) padlocks that I paid $20 dollars for; those at least will slow down the pros.
"I think those are sold... almost everywhere, except maybe restaurants (screwdrivers, that is.)"
I'm quite sure I got a screwdriver once in a restaurant inside a christmas cracker.
So you can get screwdrivers _anywhere_.
And if you go to a restaurant and say "guys, I really need a screwdriver, would you have one for twenty pounds", I'm sure they'll find one for you.
Master locks are easy in any case - sat down one day with a case of 50 new padlocks, opened 41 of them with a rock - without damaging the locks at all. Put a little tension on the hasp and tap either side of the body, back and forth, and the lock will most likely open - gets easier with older worn Master padlocks.
"Put a little tension on the hasp and tap either side of the body"
A problem with most 'snap-shut' type padlocks. The bolt is spring-loaded so as to allow the shackle to depress it when closing. Anything that can jostle the bolt back and forth (smacking it or a thin metal shim) can get it back open.
Better padlocks have the equivalent of deadbolts and key retention. You need the key to positively rotate the bolt into the locked position. And you can't take the key out unless the shackle is closed.
Just rap the lock (as it's phrased) and the pawls bounce open on masterlocks and similar, hence it is wise to use something which uses ball bearings to secure the hasp
Shimming tends to be irritating and sometimes they even make one that fits together proper properly.
For chinese built locks usually the locking mechanism isn't protected so a 'knife' can be shoved up through the key way and used to unlatch the catches.
Not that there's anything unusual about that of course.
I mean, they're indented metal in metal, really quite small (not to say tiny in fact) and you have to get up quite close to read the number and compare it to the one you've memorised for just such an occasion and the light from the window, the overhead striplight or your torch has to be right, or they're almost impossible to read at the best of times, but it's not like you were looking to engage in industrial espionage or anything.
"Our only-game-in-a-small-town hardware store went for Master's case load discount. Guess what? Probably half the padlocks in a 10 mile radius open with the same key..."
When I was a kid growing up, Gran lived a few doors down across the street. Our back door key opened her back door. Being a kid I never gave it a thought. It was a happy coincidence that everyone agreed was convenient. It was only years later I realised a three lever mortice lock only has 6 effective combinations (can't use 0 or 7) so at least 1 in 6 houses on the estate shared back door keys! Of course, back then, no one really thought about stuff like that. People generally just accepted whatever locks the house builders happened to cheap out on. You only changed the lock if it broke or you were having a new door fitted for some reason such as rotten wood.
"Our back door key opened her back door."
Had the same thing when our family visited relatives in a different state back in the '60s. When we arrived, they where not home, so someone tried our key in their door, and it opened. Cue large grins on all of us kids, coz the relos lived above the lolly shop they ran.
Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is ... What about coins? I can't tell you how many times I've removed screws with a coin ... Can a child be fingered for picking up steel street sweeper tines? Those things are easily fashioned into lock picks ... The hydraulic jack in my truck can be used to defeat security gates ... and the HighLift is even more useful.
Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is ...
Yup. With caveats. Leatherman may also have a problem given it's a lock knife, which means it can also fall foul of other badly worded legislation. Or future legislation given there's perception of a knife problem in parts of the UK. But there's also pragmatism, ie you can go equipped or carry a knife, if you can justify it and convince the police officer that you're not up to no good. Which may of course be harder if you've got jacks, power tools and a 44" bolt cropper down your trousers at 3am outside a warehouse that isn't yours.
Which is also why I like Bosnianbill's YouTube channel. He's a lock guru and reviews common and less common locks, including their ability to resist typical criminal's attacks and tools. Nice example here-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73ZNe2W3NY
Showing a socket modified to over torque locks. Easy for criminals to conceal, less easy to explain to a police officer if you're caught carrying it.
"Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is"
"Going equipped" isn't quite as cut'n'dried as stated. Circumstances have a lot to do with it. After all, many people carry tools or other items that could be used for nefarious things all the time.
@Jake
Re uk/leatherman. I keep mine in my car.
IF they have a locking blade, we can't carry them technically. It's not black and white. we are "allowed" tools. So it's all about context really.
If you're a local scrotum caught with one at 11pm, i'd not fancy your chances. if you're not a little scumbag, and you have a reason/justification to be carrying it, that is supposed to be fine (i.e. a workman with one in a bag of tools, would be different to as hooded youth out at night. It's a bit murky.
Any model without a locking blade of over something like 3 inches, and you're fine.
Blade length+lock is what it goes on.
I believe it also has something to do with how you answer any questions the police might ask - e.g
Polis : "I see you have a perfume spray there madam that isn't the perfume you are wearing..."
Woman: "Oh yes, that's so if someone attacks me I can spray it in their face and get away"
Polis: "...and that'll be considered an offensive weapon, if you'd like to accompany me to the station"
Now obviously you are allowed to carry perfume sprays, just not with the intention of using them as a weapon - same with many other things like wrecking bars, pipe wrenches. You just have to have a good, legal, and preferably verifiable, reason for carrying them, and for the most sensible law enforcement officer to be having a good day.
I think the decent sized Leatherman's blades are a bit over 3". But then it doesn't exactly have a butterfly knife's speed of deployment. Might be faster to shove the pliers up a miscreant's nostrils and give them a good twist rather than try getting the blade out.
But the only time I've ever been stopped while 'going equipped' was on my way to Docklands at an ungodly hour to fix a sick mux, so a reasonable explanation for tools and test kit.
I'll ignore the silly "weapons" laws for the moment, quite content that I'll be able to openly carry my Leatherman and Buck 110 (or Schrade LB7, depending on mood) and a couple lockpicks without my government getting up my ass about it into the foreseeable future (unless I'm actually doing something illegal)... However, I feel a need to comment on this part:
"But the only time I've ever been stopped while 'going equipped' was on my way to Docklands at an ungodly hour"
What reason did plod have to stop you in the first place? Just because you were out and about at the same exact "ungodly" hour that plod was out and about? Did plod fail to notice that some people actually work at that hour, and being out and about is perfectly reasonable? Or is everybody who doesn't march in lock-step with TheGreatUnwashed automagically guilty of something? That's a mighty slippery slope your .gov is skating on ... Are dusk-to-dawn curfews next?
Brixton (Toxteth, Handsworth, etc.) happened for a reason ... are you lot ready for a repeat? It was really, really ugly the first time around. I was there for a good portion of the late '70s and early '80s, I know of what I speak ...
::insert pithy comment about doomed to repeat history, etc. here::
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"As the law is written, any non-locking blade under 3 inches does not need a 'good reason'."
How about a couple of feet of fixed blade? And how do they define "good reason"? I use my aging Buck 110 (or old Schrade LB7) probably a dozen times per day, every day, and my not quite as old Leatherman Super Tool more times than that.
"However the moment you say it's for defence you are now breaking the law no matter the size of the blade."
What kind of blithering idiot would claim a pocket knife was a defensive weapon? People like that are more a danger to themselves than to anybody else. No need for plod, let Darwin sort 'em out.
Continuing the theme ... am I allowed to carry my walking stick? Mine is white oak, 7'2" by approximately 1.85". I forged iron caps for each end of it, mainly because I don't want it to wear out before I'm done with it. It's a comfy piece of wood ... When I ran across it, I knew exactly what it was meant to be. Comes in handy for stability in rain, mud & snow, and when I'm moving sheep & cattle around. Great tool, everybody should have one :-)
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"I'll stick to my (not quite quite as easy to compromise) padlocks that I paid $20 dollars for"
I'll stick to the ancient Yale monster securing my shed. It's older than I am. Probably considerably older. It looks more like something built in a shipyard than a lock factory. OTOH it wouldn't be that hard to break through the side of the shed...
Not sure I can blame them for using philips screws. There are various screwheads around that are claimed to be tamperproof, but really they're just mildly inconvenient.
Many of them have drivers available in a kit from your nearest poundshop (where available) and those that don't can usually be defeated by hitting a cheap chinesium screwdriver so it moulds itself to the screwhead.
In short, they're worthless : tamperable by anyone over the age of 2 and most certainly by someone with an inclination towards overcoming locks.
I have a small fitted plastic case containing 154 bits that can be used to remove nearly every "tamper proof" screw known to man. It cost me all of $19.95 from Ace Hardware about 20 years ago. They are not the best quality tools on the planet, but they have done the job for me all these years. And wonder of wonders, I haven't lost one yet ...
All you "remote job site" folks out there would do worse than to keep such a kit (and the required 1/4 inch driver) in your traveling gear. I also throw in a complete 1/4 inch ratchet set, just because I can. Has saved me I don't know how many hundreds of hours over the decades.
(Since I last posted this, I've run across a couple new bits that my kit doesn't handle. A dollar or so later, and I'm covered. That's a pretty good price for a once in a couple decades upgrade!)
There are such things as tamper-proof screws. They are countersunk (of course) and made of some hardened steel, use-once and done up with a standard crosshead screwdriver. However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge. The really sneaky bit is the underside of the countersink has lots of reverse sawteeth. They slightly deform the underlying metal as you screw them in, and even without the odd head profile, would dig in hard if you tried to undo them.
"However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge."
Commonly used on bathroom stall partitions. It's a strange world we live in when our valuables are secured behind common Phillips head screws. But you just try to steal our toilet door .....
"There are such things as tamper-proof screws. They are countersunk (of course) and made of some hardened steel, use-once and done up with a standard crosshead screwdriver. However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge. The really sneaky bit is the underside of the countersink has lots of reverse sawteeth. They slightly deform the underlying metal as you screw them in, and even without the odd head profile, would dig in hard if you tried to undo them."
With enough torque you can get even these out, I know I have done it using a electric screw driver with a flat head bit, if you put enough downward pressure on the screw head it will still bite despite the sloping edges.
The question should probably be why use screws at all, if the back was not supposed to come off as they claim they could weld it in place.
"You don't even need that much torque. A couple passes with a needle file and they usually back right out like a normal screw."
Not if they are used correctly and If you managed it like that than they definitely weren't.
They should be countersunk to stop tampering with the head. They should also be torqued past the plastic deformation point so any serious force applied snaps the head off. For bonus points, make them harder than the case metal so a hand drill tends to skate sideways and break the bit.
Like all security measures, it comes down to how serious an attacker you need to keep out.
Pedantically speaking you are correct but out in The Real World(tm)* you'll find "countersunk" used for any recess at the top of a fastener hole. Most of them are neither "sunk" nor "bored" but cast, moulded or, in the case of almost all I produce, 3D printed. :-)
* A scary place. I recommend avoiding it as much as possible.
”@jake - "I have a small fitted plastic case containing 154 bits that can be used to remove nearly every "tamper proof" screw known to man."
But did it contain the Apple pentalobes?“
It’s Jake. He came up with the idea of pentalobes during a pilgrimage to Israel where he had a vision of a Torx morphing into the Star of David above the stable where he was staying. He was later ceremonially presented with the first gold-plated Pentalobe set by Steve Jobs himself; at Steve’s house, over dinner; before spending the next six months personally instructing Apple’s designers on how to use them correctly.
Seems to me that someone very close to you once wrote "Don't just call bollocks, if you have evidence to refute, feel free to reference it."
Physician, heal thyself.
"Chinesium = AvE A Canadian engineer on You Tube,"
Big upvote for AvE. A must view channel. Not only is he hilarious, he's a damn good engineer. My guess is he works in the mining/oil industry. Check out his "engine swap" on a ... err, Ladies' personal massager. Bring spare undies and don't be drinking anything.
"There are various screwheads around that are claimed to be tamperproof, but really they're just mildly inconvenient."
We had a new HP tape drive with a shipping bar secured by Torx screws back when they were new and supposedly uncommon. The engineers who came to set it up were a bit taken aback to find it already being used. My cheap screwdriver set already included a range of Torx bits.
This must be one of the funny stories I've read in a very long time. I'm still laughing as I wrote this.
The scary thing is there are going to be some people out there who think they have just received a wonderful and secure lock. Misrepresentation is only one of the words that come to mind about this pile of crap.
Andy
As a deterrent to opportunistic sneak thieves it should work well, assuming it never becomes a common item. Trouble is, the price. Usually such low level protection is low cost as well. Apparently it's meant for the boutique crowd who only care that it's fingerprint-ready. Presumably such people aren't that concerned about monetary losses anyway.
I see it as the iPhone of locks.
Apple's stuff may be overpriced, but it usually does what it claims. It's libel to compare these to iPhones.
It seems worse than those cheap 4 digit combination locks on chains for bikes, the ones were you tension the chain and you can feel the rings.
How long does the charge last and how it is charged?
"How long does the charge last and how it is charged?"
And what happens if you try to charge it from the mains without using some kind of AC to low voltage DC adapter*.
(*Don't try this at home, try it at someone else's home, someone who is daft enough to have bought one of these locks)
And what happens if you try to charge it from the mains without using some kind of AC to low voltage DC adapter*.
I would guess that's mostly done for shits and giggles to see how the owner handles it when they find they can't get their super-secure lock open and have to take the whole door and frame out.
In this case though; not so much of a problem.
IQ Scores Are Falling in "Worrying" Reversal of 20th Century Intelligence Boom
Flynn effect and its reversal are both environmentally caused (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences)
You hoped you were joking when you said this before, didn't you?
I am constantly surprised to find that I am still surprised by how clever, knowledgable and thoughtful people aren't.
However, in my defence, it has to be said that people do seem to be getting stupider as the years go by ... stupider, ignoranter and thoughtlesser - so maybe I shouldn't be.
However, in my defence, it has to be said that people do seem to be getting stupider as the years go by
This was known almost a quarter of a century ago.
Very related: Blood Simple Comment on that movie about Teranos with the lady from the Hunger Games.
Willis has to break into the CIA headquarters - He disguises himself as a General and descends to a hidden floor in an lift. To get to the highly secret archives he has to open a door with an unbreakable lock that has an access code that changes every 6 hours. He kicks through the plasterboard wall at the side of the door to get to the mechanism and opens the door in about 5 seconds.
They may go all the way up on the wall the door is on for more rigidity, but not all the way on an adjoining room that you can get into. When a company moves into the space, all they might do is fit a locking door handle to use the room for something restricted rather than properly secure it.
With drop down ceilings, another thing to look for is security device wiring that's beanie'd in at the top of the wall or at least accessible so it can be bypassed. If you know the brand of the alarm system, it's easy to look up if door sensors are N.O. or N.C. as a default. A tricky installer would configure the system to do it both ways so anybody that bypasses one may set off the next one. If you can see the connections to the reed switch, you will be able to tell which way you need to go with a bypass.
almost everything with an IoT label appears to be both attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and simultaneously provide a solution that is more complex and less secure than traditional methods?
Just get something with a key. It's not there to protect the crown jewels; it's to slow someone down long enough to make it not worth them bothering to try and break it.
But, oooh, it's shiny!
...I thought to myself this product sounds so awful it must of been crowdfunded on Indiegogo and to my relief I was right!
Never fund or support anything on Indidgogo! It is the wild west of crowd funding. So many scams and failed ideas come out of this terrible piece of the internet.
That's not entirely fair. I have a Gemini. If you have a functioning 5MX and can live with the limited connection options it is far more robust and a better typing experience but the Gemini lives up to its billing with the reservation that due to the positioning of the speakers it is difficult to have a private conversation with it.
That's all true, but I would say that all the stories about things being made with croudfunding that are delivered late if ever and don't work have made me less likely to try it myself. Also, to what extent do other sites have the same level of nonexistent products? I don't hear these stories so much about kickstarter, for instance. There have been a few things I thought about buying from croudfunding projects. I've just checked one of them, which appears to be fully vaporware. It was supposed to ship two years ago and the page hasn't been updated since then. Maybe I'm right to continue to start with distrust and allow them to try to build up from there.
Maybe I'm right to continue to start with distrust and allow them to try to build up from there.
Originally, stock exchanges were created to bring together speculative investors and entrepreneurs + crooks. They were staggeringly successful in both categories. Over a couple of hundred years the unimaginative, the lazy, and the stupid (so neither investors, entrepreneurs, or crooks) have added sufficient bureaucracy and regulation that stock exchanges have ceased to be a source of capital for formative businesses.
In that respect crowdfunding has to be applauded, and regulation resisted. There have been and will be many failures, and lots of fraud. But the whole point of equity investment is that it involves risk. If you can't afford to lose your stake, you shouldn't be playing.
"Never fund or support anything on Indidgogo! It is the wild west of crowd funding. So many scams and failed ideas come out of this terrible piece of the internet."
I wouldn't go that far. The Tesla Museum used Indiegogo to raise funds to buy Wardencliff. It's a matter of using common sense. A pad lock with Bluetooth and a fingerprint scanner is just dumb. As it was said in another comment, it's a solution looking for a problem to solve. The price is also ridiculous.
Maybe, but there are plenty of things that would be useful. In the case of a thing I considered backing, a phone case that records phone calls and can also act as a convenient audio recorder. That's something I could use, as I find it handy to start a recording with a press of a button, which my phone can't do (unlocking, opening app, and pressing a button is fine but can take a few seconds which annoys the person you want to record, and won't work if you're on the phone. It is a product I want, the price seems fine, and the people are near their estimate of how much money they need to make it, so they should have enough. I don't know what happened in that case, because I didn't end up supporting, but all I know is that they haven't made any of these, the page is dead, and I'm disappointed because I can't buy it.
The standard things to try out would be:
Using a strong magnet to make the motor turn without being told to do so. That way you could open the lock.
Reading off the fingerprint from the reader, generating a fingerprint mask and using it on the device. If they were really stupid, they didn't check for "latent fingerprints" and all you have to do is breathe at it.
"The standard things to try out would be:
Using a strong magnet to make the motor turn without being told to do so. That way you could open the lock.
Reading off the fingerprint from the reader, generating a fingerprint mask and using it on the device. If they were really stupid, they didn't check for "latent fingerprints" and all you have to do is breathe at it."
Magnets won't work on steppers, and decent fingerprint scanners will ignore masks - which would make these methods useless for any well designe... oh wait.
"Magnets won't work on steppers, and decent fingerprint scanners will ignore masks - which would make these methods useless for any well designe... oh wait."
Well actually magnets work on most kinds of motors. You essentially emulate the fields which the coils generate by sliding a magnet down the side, then turning the magnet and doing it again.
Fingerprint scanners don't ignore masks, as with any biometric method you can always fool them. Usually even very easily. (see Touch-ID)
"I'll bet they won't use it themselves."
Don't be too sure. Taking a whole archive home to run on a PC. Using gmail for Company business. The people whose job it is to break into other people's stuff don't seem that interested in protecting themselves. Is it any wonder they don't see what's wrong with their idea of the public running back-doored devices?
"Anybody authorized to go through the gate has a physio-psycho pattern registered in the central computer... When he wants to go through, this scans him and feeds the reading back to the computer. All you've got to do is intercept the feedback from the computer. Now, you stand in front and I'll press the scan button. Retrieval system, no record, refusal signal, now." [ the gate swings open]
Mines the one next to a 1970s plastic cool box.
One way only screws are available easily enough, most extension blocks in the UK use these nasty pieces (they are typically slot head screws but with a slope on the 'undo' direction rather than the flat surface so as you try and unscrew then the driver merely slides up, when doing up that direction has the normal flat surface so works.
As to the 'pin' idea, if thats all that holds the back from unscrewing I wonder if it is nicely hardened so my battery powered drill wont just go straight through it.
Is the lock made by apple? Sounds like a triumph of marketing over actual design
most extension blocks in the UK use these nasty pieces
If you can't get them out by simply applying vertical force while turning them; the heads can usually be drilled away, the extension assembly pulled apart, the screws removed with a Mole Wrench.
They are mainly for health and safety, to stop idiots taking apart things they shouldn't be taking apart.
Mine's the one with the cut-down 6" nail 'fuse' in the pocket.
He just happened to buy the one with a dud pin? Fuck off.
This ought to be counted as fraud, although writing a definition might be difficult. Obviously padlocks aren't supposed to be unbreakable, but harder than trivial would be good. The alternative is to say market forces make bad products disappear, but how many will see this for sale in a shop and buy it without checking up on it?
It's like video doorbells w/secure locks. You see the commercials. Only idiot amateur crooks would try to access the house or steal a package when they see the doorbell. IoT must make "cyberhacks" laughing at how easy it is to bypass any "protect your home" electronic lock.
This "ingenious" pad lock sold itself to many who crowd sourced it but who never even thought for a second how easy it would be to bypass it.
For me, as insecure as some might claim, traditional locks are the way to go. Yes my car has a smart lock (no options not to have one) but I am careful to try to avoid usaing my remote in parking lots. It's really too bad as ideas like this smart padlock are interesting but oversold on the security aspect.
Oh, as they are manufactured in China, it also makes me feel much better as I really trust the Chinese government and their companies :-)
Ah, nothing says "internet of things" like some startup with vague knowledge of IT and no knowledge of an existing market deciding that their on-a-computer idea is enough for them to just wing it when it comes to the actual nitty-gritty of the market in question. Who knew that locksmithing was something that takes actual skill and experience?
Reminds me of the very cheap Chinese locks I used as a kid to lock my yacht club locker. In case the key was lost (which happened a couple of times), this kind of lock was about as easy to break as the Tapplock, but they cost something like 50 cents instead of $100, so it was acceptable.
Anyway the story was really comical. Sounds like the design team did not include anyone with a clue about making any kind of lock, and apparently not very good programmers either.
Successful thieves are usually pretty efficient. I suspect rather than farting around with scanners etc they'll just hit this POS hard with a hammer.
Even if you can't break this quickly by hitting it all you have to do is disable the electronic element (probably by hitting it hard with a hammer or rock) then the user will have to leave their bike. That'll give you plenty of time through the night to work on it.
My old Oxford bike lock weighed about 1Kg and was shatter and cutter resistant. It probably protected a motorbike which was worth considerably less than the bikes locked up by the hipster users of this shit
Real question is how does a project like this get anywhere a green light to proceed and get taken seriously. Where these all Business majors avoiding hiring experts?
Jokes about guard dogs but no one is citing Dilbert?
Between garbage like this and the UK replacing the English Common law with 1984, I need to f*cking retire. UKIP or GTFO.
Rock beats proprietary screws. If somebody has the time to unscrew a few screws and twiddle around inside to unlock the lock, the game has already been lost. That's just too fiddly. A good bash or pry will have that lock open without the need for a set of special screwdriver tips.
I had an occasion where a person locked a double gate on the other side and didn't put the lock at the end of each section of chain welded to the gates (again) and I was so pissed (in a hurry and didn't want to spend 10 minutes going around the long way through the other gate) that I gave the gates a big push. Snapped the hasp clean in two. Hmmmm. The mass of the gates coupled with the quality of the chain and welds beat the strength of the lock. We hadn't considered that before. I could have pushed the gates much harder than I did. We could have put a much more expensive lock on the gates, but then it would have been simpler to make a couple of strategic cuts to the chain link fence right next to the gate, peeled it back and driven right in.
Even if you clear a 1km free fire zone, install multiple fences, add tank traps, litter the space with land mines and add guard towers with armed soldiers, determined people will still get through. The cost and inconvenience of the security has to balance with the threat and the value of what's being protected.
Fingerprint scanning does not provide high security. Using it in conjunction with other security mechanisms can provide benefits, but using it as the only security mechanism is foolish. Nobody should be using these sorts of locks alone to protect anything that is actually valuable.
Unless they're misusing the word "proprietary" to mean "shaped such they can only be tightened and with a drop of superglue on the threads for good measure" there is no type of screw head I've ever seen that offers protection against anyone other than bored children. Unless every lock has a different kind of screw head, you just make a screwdriver and off you go. It's only rarely that it's even difficult. Most "proprietary" "secure" screw types I've seen are trivial modifications to standard screw types and can be implemented with 20 minutes and a dremel tool.
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