1,300 customers of Brit bank TSB defrauded due to botched IT migration

TSB's boss Paul Pester admitted that 1,300 people have been defrauded as a result of the bank's botched IT upgrade in April, in a second hearing in front of MPs. The Treasury Select Committee heard how some customers had tens of thousands of pounds drained from their accounts, while others had to wait up to nine hours on the …

[John H Woods]

Another false claim...

... prepared to bet my life that there's quite a few people who feel more for those customers than he does. Quite a few of us here, for starters.

[tin 2]

Re: Another false claim...

came here to post the same. So true

[TonyJ]

Re: Another false claim...

"...Another false claim...

... prepared to bet my life that there's quite a few people who feel more for those customers than he does. Quite a few of us here, for starters..."

Indeed - he hasn't had to sit an watch his money being stolen from his account whilst being left on hold to the fraud team like this poor guy: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44243768

Perhaps if he were made to personally compensate them, things would be significantly different. As well as then he really would share/feel the pain.

[alferdpacker]

Re: Another false claim...

"While our systems are safe and secure unfortunately fraudsters are increasingly sophisticated"

what an incredible response

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Another false claim...

what an incredible typical response

[Voland's right hand]

Re: Another false claim...

Oh he feels for them all right. It is the feeling of a temporary single percentage digit decrease in his bonus. Only temporary of course.

[Tom Paine]

Re: Another false claim...

Ha ha ha.... no. He's had it, career-wise. If he's employed in any sort of executive decision-making capacity at a regulated FI this time next year I'll eat my hat.

[teebie]

Re: Another false claim...

"He's had it, career-wise. "

I doubt this is true. Dido Harding is currently employed.

[Hans 1]

Re: Another false claim...

@Tom Paine

I would buy an edible hat if I were you, his yachting/golfer mates will soon find him some other highly paid job ideal for an ignorant and lazy of his kind.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Another false claim...

"I would buy an edible hat if I were you, his yachting/golfer mates will soon find him some other highly paid job ideal for an ignorant and lazy of his kind."

Note the OP said in an FI regulated business. That may well be the case if the regulators so decide. But it wouldn't stop him popping up in another capacity. Perhaps a career in politics beckons.

[Joe Harrison]

Re: Another false claim...

Perhaps a career in politics beckons.

Why not, he has more than proved he is grade-A politician material

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: Another false claim...

he has more than proved he is grade-A politician material

What do you mean? He's lied, ignored reality, made stuff up - surely no politician would do..

Ah.

OK.

As you were..

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another false claim...

Politics would mean a pay cut, so I suggest he's going to be appointed as a university vice chancellor.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another false claim...

If he's employed in any sort of executive decision-making capacity at a regulated FI this time next year I'll eat my hat.

Pfft - get your sauce warmed up.

He may not be in a regulated role, but there's nothing to stop him being in the machine somewhere.

My old work got hauled over the coals by the FSA (pre-FCA), and the directors all buggered off to start a new company. Only one of them isn't authorised, and he's employed as a "consultant".

AC because it nearly ended up in court, and I'm best not to dredge too much...

[Voland's right hand]

Re: Another false claim...

If he's employed in any sort of executive decision-making capacity at a regulated FI this time next year I'll eat my hat.

I have put 6th of July 2019 in my calendar and I have set-up an advanced order of a bucket of ketchup to facilitate the hat consumption for you. We will all get some popcorn and get together to watch. Can you arrange some live streaming please?

[Mark 85]

Re: Another false claim...

He's had it, career-wise.

Nah, these guys just eventually cash out (even if forced out) and move on. Yeah, he may be a yacht or sports car behind his peers but such is the way it is. I do agree with other commentards that CEO's and boards should suffer something. Maybe hanging is too good for them?

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Another false claim...

"Oh he feels for them all right. It is the feeling of a temporary single percentage digit decrease in his bonus. Only temporary of course."

I do hope the notoriously short attention span of the media can make an attempt to remember this story when bonus payment time comes around. It should be interesting to see how his bonus is actually affected.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another false claim...

but it hit him right in the feels, I bet he's having trouble sleeping at night in his rather large house, he also might have had to cancel some yachting, that's gotta hurt.

[MonkeyCee]

Re: Another false claim...

He didn't specify *what* he feels for customers, just assuring us that he totally does have feelings for them.Much the same way foxes have strong feelings about chickens :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another false claim...

As someone who has been overseas for the last 3 months, I have come back to see my account emptied - and more money siphioned from a linked account., Work meant that my net access was extremely limited. You might imagine that I am pissed off - and TSB are not being exactly helpful - as are my local police force!

And this is a couple of weeks of penury in.......

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: Another false claim...

just assuring us that he totally does have feelings for them

By now, probably blind and unremitting hatred[1]. After all, how dare they spoil his migration party with all their pettifrogging complaints? So what if they can't access their TSB accounts - surely no-one with any wealth uses TSB!

Little people - pah. Who cares?

[1] Much like is engendered by having to be on a public-facing Helldesk. You start of genuinely wanting to help people but it doesn't take long before the despair, loathing and outright hatred starts,, Not that he's ever been exposed to Real People(TM).

[Mark 85]

Re: Another false claim...

He didn't specify *what* he feels for customers, just assuring us that he totally does have feelings for them.

Probably the pain of not being able to be on the golf course without being bothered by phone calls, etc. Life is tough sometimes.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: Another false claim...

"... prepared to bet my life that there's quite a few people who feel more for those customers than he does."

Well, yes, obviously and I don't suppose your life insurance provider is too bothered by your rash bet. A more interesting question, however, is whether anyone out there actually feels less for these customers than he does. That is, perhaps he is not merely spouting implausible nonsense but is in fact exactly 100% wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Another false claim...

It isnt even as if their chaotic tech infrastructure issues were new; whilst trying to open an account with them a couple of years ago, what should have been a simple hours task turned into a 3 month trial, where they lost paperwork, destroyed paperwork, sent paperwork to the wrong address (their OWN address, they got THEIR OWN ADDRESS WRONG!!!)

If it hadnt been for the fact they were the only bank willing to open an account for my wife at the time (foreign national), we would have walked after the first lost paperwork incident, but after the third lot went missing, we gave up

[Dan 55]

She cannae take it, captain

However, the FCA's Bailey told MPs initial problems identified by IBM go beyond the middleware

So much for Pester's claim that the engine was fine.

[Steven 1]

Re: She cannae take it, captain

Indeed, they've failed to honour two standing order's of mine, on both occasions the account had more than sufficient funds to cover them.

Let me be clear, they weren't returned due to insufficient funds either, they just weren't processed at all. If that doesn't raise some eyebrows that there is something very wrong with their systems I don't know what will.

Naturally I've been unable to get through to anyone to actually find out why and have decided enough's enough.

[Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?]

Truly Shambolic Bank

I hate to say it, but the word isn't Shambolic. Starts with S-H though.

And it has IT in it.

[macjules]

Re: Truly Shambolic Bank

And it has IT in it.

Which is more than TSB seems to have. Didn't they used to be known as, "The Bank That Likes To Say Yes"?

[Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?]

Re: Truly Shambolic Bank

And it has IT in it.

Which is more than TSB seems to have. Didn't they used to be known as, "The Bank That Likes To Say Yes"?

Indeed they did, now its more like The Bank That Likes To Say, "Shit Geoffrey, did you even test this crap?There isn't a single part of this that works properly for fucks sake! Call IBM, they'll know what to do"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Truly Shambolic Bank

"Call IBM, they'll know what to do"

And that itself is a horrifying thought. IBM Global Buggerups have been associated with failure since probably the dawn of time, and the idea that they could improve the situation at Pester's toy bank is horrifying.

[Spanker]

Re: Truly Shambolic Bank

Don’t you mean ‘Geofredo’?

[Arctic fox]

@macjules Re: Didn't they used to be known as, "The Bank That Likes To Say Yes"?

Now let us be fair, they did indeed say yes.....to a large number of phishers, charlatans and fraudsters!

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Truly Shambolic Bank

Didn't they used to be known as, "The Bank That Likes To Say Yes"?

Under the Lloyds' ownership I found them to be the bank, or at least branch, that says "don't care".

[Anonymous Coward]

"CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

Looks the right firm, given what's happened.

Anyway it looks banks should top paying too much people who just try to come up with more complex financial "instruments" to create fake money to fatten bonuses, and instead start to hire competent IT people - all of their business is made of bits and bytes, today.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

This isn't just banks; it's right across the industry and that includes IT companies themselves. Look at IBM, HP et al. Those at the top consider IT an unwanted expense, just as they consider employees, infrastructure, customers or anything else that isn't lining their pockets an unwanted expense.

They know they can't get rid of it, so they do what they can to strip it to the bone. The tragedy is those who caused this, i.e. those who created the environment, will get away with it, those who should be holding them to account are in on it through old boys networks and nothing, nothing will change.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: "CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

"They know they can't get rid of it, so they do what they can to strip it to the bone."

I wonder if we may be reaching a turning point. When everybody's reached the bottom the next logical step is a race to the top.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

The next step is to kill off your competitors and have a monopoly on mediocrity.

[SGWilko]

Re: "CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

"monopoly on mediocrity" Isn't that the mantra of the Freemasons?

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: "CEO said city law firm Slaughter and May is conducting an independent review"

"I wonder if we may be reaching a turning point. When everybody's reached the bottom the next logical step is a race to the top."

Nah, it's bungs and brown envelopes all the way down.

(The turtles need something to wipe their arses on)

[Anonymous Coward]

'There is no one who feels more for TSB customers than me' - CEO

The people who make those kinds of statements are uncaring sociopaths. Instead take that statement and invert it, stamp on it, put it in the liquidizer - whatever. Then take it out and look at it.... Whatever is left is what CEO's really think. Christ if its tiring for readers to read this BS-PR, Jeez I pity poor journos. Or maybe they've already been replaced by AI / Bots? I can see Murdoch wanting in on that! Not the Reg of course, its run by rebels in our wonderful Blakes7-without-the-spacecraft universe / reality of sorts.

[Tom Paine]

Re: 'There is no one who feels more for TSB customers than me' - CEO

Baggsie me being Vila! Triple adrenalin and somas all round!

[Anonymous Coward]

While TSB IT systems were crashing like a Train-Wreck

I'm pretty sure TSB's CEO was off taking a selfie at the time, just like that schmuck in Italy as the injured woman lay on the tracks. No surprise there's research showing 'The-Rich-Lack-Empathy'!

[Anonymous Coward]

Loss of customers

“Some 12,500 customers have switched away...”

Part of the reason they pushed ahead with the project I reckon. This clusterfuck was probably one of the worse case scenarios yet they still only lost less than .25% of customers.

Banks increasingly rely on customer complacency - and get away with it seemingly :-/

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Loss of customers

"they still only lost less than .25% of customers."

The other 99.75% are still trying to get enough access to switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Some 12,500 customers have switched away from TSB since the start of its IT problems."

I didn't formally "switch" my account, but opened another (Nationwide) and manually moved all direct debits, salary, card payments over. I'll leave ~£100 in the TSB account as a backup.

There are probably lots of people in this situation - it would be interesting to see how many shifted most of their money/activity but are still customers.

[Avatar of They]

Reminds of the old saying.

"A fool and his money are easily parted."

It seems "A fool who stays with the TSB is easily parted from his money."

[wolfetone]

With this and the Visa shambles last week, is a cashless society really the best idea?

[Anonymous South African Coward]

With this and the Visa shambles last week, is a cashless society really the best idea?

I have to agree - it is tempting to go 100% cashless, but then you'd stuck up the proverbial creek sans paddle should Mr Murphy decide to poke his grubby fingers in where they don't belong.

Cash still is king. Plus it feel nice to fan some large notes and pretend you're the richest in the world :)

[Anonymous Coward]

"it is tempting to go 100% cashless"

It seems that several 1000 TSB customers have beta tested that for you and found the experience less than satisfactory.

[Tom Paine]

In t4he wis ewords of Zarniwoop....

"If you can't scratch a window with it, I don't accept it" (from the original radio series)

[eldakka]

Re: In t4he wis ewords of Zarniwoop....

> "If you can't scratch a window with it, I don't accept it"

Gimme sec, I'll go break some old-school coke bottles I have in my hoard...

Now then, I have some pieces of errr...ummm...this stuff that can scratch windows, how much will you give me for them?

(i.e. shards of hardened glass can scratch glass windows - as can many other things including, but not limited to, diamonds.)

[A Non e-mouse]

There was a BBC News article on how Sweden is pushing very hard to go cashless. Many shops their now only accept card payments.

[cosymart]

Cashless Swedes

@ A Non e-mouse "There was a BBC News article on how Sweden is pushing very hard to go cashless. Many shops their now only accept card payments."

How does this work if you are a child? Want to buy a bag of toffees for 0.5Euro?

[Nick Ryan]

Re: Cashless Swedes

Prepaid cards? In many ways as long as no credit is involved it's no less secure than cash. Until details are entered online of course...

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Cashless Swedes

"How does this work if you are a child? Want to buy a bag of toffees for 0.5Euro?"

Toffees are probably banned 'cause they're bad for your teeth.

I'm not sure how Swedish prices compare with Norway but a while ago someone at a client came back from a trip to Norway and said "It's a great place. You can buy anything for £25 - a beer ... a sandwich...". On that basis there'd be no problem; nothing too cheap to buy with plastic.

[WraithCadmus]

@A Non e-mouse

There was a BBC News article on how Sweden is pushing very hard to go cashless. Many shops their now only accept card payments.

Indeed, I was in Stockholm recently and everyone took card, even the humble hot-dog vendor on the corner. Some shops the staff seemed almost offended if you tried to use cash. I took 1000kr (~£90) cash with me expecting to burn through it in the first couple of days, came back with about 700.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Indeed, I was in Stockholm recently and everyone took card, even the humble hot-dog vendor on the corner."

Sounds like the Visa/Mastercard duopoly lobbying paid off handsomely. Now they get a cut of almost every transaction in the entire country.

[Anonymous Coward]

'With this and the Visa shambles last week, is a cashless society really the best idea?' - No!!!!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-cashless-society-is-a-dangerous-idea-1.2869212

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-18/-no-cash-signs-everywhere-has-sweden-worried-it-s-gone-too-far

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43645676

[John Sanders]

Reality vs expectations.

If all you thing that it can go wrong in a cashless society is the inconvenience of not having access to your bank account you're in for a rude awakening.

[0laf]

He feels sorry for himself, he's know he's getting off this particular gravy train very soon.

But employment is a revolving door for the guys at these levels, he'll pick up another cushy directorship soon no need to worry that he'll go through hardship or need to visit a food bank any time soon.

[Fat_Tony]

If they're calling a migration project an upgrade, or their migration project included an upgrade it's no suprise it ended up on it arse

[HmmmYes]

'"There is no one who feels more for TSB customers than me," a grovelling Pester told MPs.'

I bet he doesnt bank with the TSB.

The committee should ask which bank he uses to deposit is vast paycheck.

[Scott Broukell]

I just can't wait for the advent of the cashless society, what with so many banks and financial institutions regularly demonstrating their proven ability to provide solid, secure, IT systems. And that they will all obviously prioritize getting the best, knowledgeable, in-house, tech-wonks to manage it, at considerable cost to themselves, so that their customer base can be confident with regard to reliability, security and helpfulness. I really can't wait.

[teebie]

"Some 12,500 customers have switched away from TSB since the start of its IT problems."

Those customer are dead to TSB. And to anyone they paid by direct debit form their TSB account.

[andy gibson]

It says a lot

If phishers can get your account details and get into your account quicker than you can

[Deej]

For goodness' sake

How are the management team still in a job?

If I was a Project Manager and this was my project, I'd have been pushed out of the door a *long* time ago!

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: For goodness' sake

"If I was a Project Manager and this was my project, I'd have been pushed out of the door a *long* time ago!"

He probably was pushed out to save costs.

[teebie]

Re: For goodness' sake

" pushed out of the door"

window or skylight may be more appropriate

[adam payne]

"There is no one who feels more for TSB customers than me," a grovelling Pester told MPs.

Hmmmm..sorry but I don't believe you. You are feeling sorry for yourself.

This has had a massive impact of peoples day to day lives and I bet you will only give them the minimum you can possibly get away with.

TSB's boss Paul Pester admitted that 1,300 people have been defrauded as a result of the bank's botched IT upgrade in April, in a second hearing in front of MPs.

I thought TCB had said in a statement that security wasn't affected?

[0laf]

"I thought TCB had said in a statement that security wasn't affected?",

I think the fraud was like the talk talk one. The scammers were aware of TSB problems and used that as a script when they phoned up randomly.

"Hello this is the TSB I belive you're having problems, we're contacting all our customers...."

Keep calling till you hit a TSB customer.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Hello this is the TSB I belive you're having problems, we're contacting all our customers...."

Keep calling till you hit a TSB customer.

Same applies to the email scammers. I've seen loads of fake TSB emails

[d3vy]

Hellllloo madame.

I am calling to tell you that there is a pigeon in your account and he is eating all of your monies.

[Doctor Syntax]

"There is no one who feels more for TSB customers than me," a grovelling Pester told MPs.

By now we've learned exactly what credence to attach to your statements.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not surprised about the IBM comment

"initial problems identified by IBM go beyond the middleware".

In my experience, anyone above the actual techie doing work level is mainly interested in pyramid selling - getting more expensive IBM people in on site, working on the account, and slagging off whoever is currently doing the work.

[yoganmahew]

Re: Not surprised about the IBM comment

I agree with you, and the Pest probably will too, so he'll ignore anything hard or expensive. In this case, though, the consultants might be right...

[Anonymous Coward]

"There is no one who feels more* for TSB customers than me,"

*utter contempt

Fixed that for you.

[adam payne]

"initial problems identified by IBM go beyond the middleware".

"initial problems identified with IBM go beyond the middle management".

[anthonyhegedus]

The FCA should freeze Pester's own and wife's bank accounts and credit cards, and see how he gets on. Then make him wait on hold for 12 hours.

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiot customers

Reusing passwords, believing what you read on Facebook, and being too stupid to spot when you are being scammed.

None of these things are really TSBs fault to be fair, in the same!e way it's not Apples fault when cretins buy £400 of iTunes vouchers and read them out over the phone....

[HieronymusBloggs]

Re: Idiot customers

"None of these things are really TSBs fault to be fair"

How about showing other customers' account details to people logging in? Whose fault was that?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Idiot customers

Please cite.

[HieronymusBloggs]

Re: Idiot customers

"Please cite."

Not sure if that was aimed at my previous post, but

example here for those who don't want to (or can't be bothered to) google.

[Anonymous Coward]

just proves that sometimes important decsions

are made by those who are totally clueless and lack the qualifications to do so.

[Roger Ramjet]

First Hand Experience

Just (slowly) logged into TSB (with back end script visible) to check all's good - and it kicked me out.

After 40 years, I'm off.

Recommendations?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: First Hand Experience

"Recommendations?"

Any other bank. They might be slightly better. Just slightly.

[d3vy]

Re: First Hand Experience

Back end script?

The sites a bag of shit but it's not that bad.

[petercain0110]

I don't see what all the fuss is about ..

I read every Sunday in the paper about a bank that has cocked-up something, somewhere, and they are the ones that are printed. And we all know that banks like to keep customers money, they just make a terrible fuss when someone from the Ukraine is doing it for them, and thus damaging their bottom line.

[Peter X]

How?

Can anyone explain how any organisation, but especially a bank, can so comprehensively cock up a system migration?

Surely they must have tested this? Isn't the system they were moving to already in use by the Spanish parent company? And on their list of contingencies, surely at the very end it said something like "...and lastly, Plan-Z, if it looks like we really can't get the migration working in a reasonable time-frame, we migrate *back* to the Lloyds system"

It's so ridiculously bad it's like they have no IT staff at all. It's like they just asked, I dunno, the cleaning staff it they knew about computers and if they could do it. And they said no. But they asked them to do it anyway.

How? How? How? I really can't wrap my head around that simple question!!

[0laf]

Re: How?

Like any massive orgainsation bank systems are often very old and very clunky. Any one big system will really be effectively 20 'bits' of old systems all held together by string and good wishes.

The guys who wrote the various bits will have retired, moved on or been outsourced to india years ago.

The guys doing the migration will likely be contractors for the most part some of whom will never have seen the system they are working on or have worked on anything similar before.

The guys managing the project will also be contractors probably in a different country never having met the techs or having worked on similar systems before either.

The senior managers don't give a fuck as long as whetever they do saves money and increases shareholder dividends.

It's basically the perfect model for large scale IT disasters all driven from the top by cost saving MBS types.

Experience and low risk costs, this sort of disaster has all been costed in and someone high up has basically done the Ford Pinto maths. IT'll save us more money in the long run than we'll pay out in fines if it goes wrong so crack on.

Which isn't to say the banks are alone in this thinking. Government too now won't pay for experience.

[N2]

More like

There is no one who feels more for TSB share holders than me.

Customers? - they're a fucking inconvenience.