back to article About to install the Windows 10 April 2018 Update? You might want to wait a little bit longer

The troubled Windows 10 April 2018 update is facing another issue, with some users losing access to their desktop after installing the new code. The problem, which first appeared in a posting on a Microsoft support forum on 14 May, has gained a bit of traction over the last two days with users taking to social media as they go …

  1. Steve Kerr

    PC Updated itself last night

    That's annoying - had an update when shutting down PC, assumed it was just more security patches, only found out this morning it was actually an updated windows 10 version.

    Thankfully didn't screw up my PC.

    Thanks microsoft for "asking" whether you could install a new version but in hindsight, with microsofts "All your windows belong to us" attitude now, not surprising <sigh>

    One day when they annoy me too much, switch to Linux it will be.

    1. Tigra 07

      Re: Steve

      I switched 2 years back. Much happier now. I only miss paint

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: Steve

        Re Linux: "I switched 2 years back. Much happier now. I only miss paint"

        gimp can do most of what MS Paint does [and without "the ribbon" or "the metro"], and a LOT more.

        As for anti-virus causing this: At least in Linux and on the BSD's, you really DO NOT NEED anything *like* anti-virus [unless you lack the intelligence to NOT do things as 'root' all of the time, or mis-configure sudo to be promiscuous with permissions].

        This is because Windows has been 'insecure by default' for a VERY, LONG, TIME!

        So when "the fix" becomes "the cause", you KNOW it's F.U.B.A.R.!

        /me points out that fixing any Linux system [that might have been root'd or virus'd] generally means inserting the Live CD/DVD, booting the optical media, going to a recovery console, and re-installing the base OS packages. it would require a *little* computer savvy, but not a whole lot. Compare THAT to fixing a windows system with the problem described by this article. yeah.

      2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: Steve

        Pinta does pretty much what Paint does (it's modelled on

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Steve

          sudo apt install pinta does the trick (on ubuntu etc)

          You can try Linux in Virtualbox on Windows pc (I do it the other way around)

          1. Avatar of They

            Re: Steve

            I use ubuntu with windows 7 in VM. I use the linux install of vmware workstation as it allows 3d GFX pass through. (The not for commercial use one as it is free).

            Another good alternative and relatively easy to install (I managed it so must be easy).

      3. jonfr

        Re: Steve

        Here you go.

      4. vtcodger Silver badge

        Re: Steve

        "I switched 2 years back. Much happier now. I only miss paint"

        It's been so long since I used MSPAINT that I really don't recall what it can and can't do. I use the kolourpaint program (part of KDE) for simple image editing. For that matter, I think MSPAINT will probably run under WINE, but my experience with WINE has never been very positive -- not really a criticism of WINE. WINE seems a noble attempt to create a Windows compatible environment on Unix, but that's really a monumentally difficult task I think. I vaguely think that ImageMagick has some editing tools. And of course, there's always Gimp. Rumor has it that Gimp's once legendarily baffling UI has mellowed in recent years.

      5. Choderus

        Re: Steve

        It's always a sad day when you have to give up huffing.

    2. Martin Gregorie

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      One day when they annoy me too much, switch to Linux it will be.

      Why wait? Just do it now.

      Or go for a preliminary Linux taster: get yourself a Raspberry Pi 3B. No need for an extra keyboard and screen: install PuTTY on your Windows box and all you need to add to the RPi to make it go is a microSD card, a decent USB wall-wart to power it, and a length of Cat 5 ethernet cable to connect it to the PC. That gives you both a graphical desktop and text console access plus file transfer between the two. OK, you might also like a case for the Pi3, but that is only six quid extra.

      1. Timmy B

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Martin Gregorie - that's an interesting idea. May give it a go. What distro would you advise?

        1. Martin Gregorie

          Re: PC Updated itself last night

          On the RaspberryPi use the standard OS - Raspbian (Debian Linux ported to the RPi). Get it from the RaspberryPi Foundation unless you buy a package that includes it.

          I gave up using Windows around 2003 - all my computers (Lenovo laptops and an AMD Athlon whitebox desktop) apart from the RPi run Redhat Fedora. I'd started running RedHat Linux 6.2 in 1999, liked it and so stuck with Redhat thru RedHat Linux 7.2 and into Fedora. Fedora is fairly close to the bleeding edge - CentOS is a RedHat clone and gives more stability. Both now have a stable and painless procedure for doing in situ upgrades to the next OS version.

          I've now moved a fair bit of my own C code from Intel and AMD (Fedora Linux) to ARM (Raspbian on the RPi) using a shared CVS source repository and in all cases the code has compiled and run on the RPi without any problems.

      2. cmaurand

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        The only thing that doesn't work so far is the spectrum streaming service which still uses flash and the drm piece on Linux doesn't work. Netflix works in Firefox as do most remote control clients.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      As the machine is now Microsofts they can do whatever they like with it and whenever they like.

      SatNad has decreed that all PC's running windows will run Windows 10 and they will control them like the fictional Borg did with people.

      Declare your resistance to the MS Borg and install Linux. You won't regret declarings independance.

      I did years ago and have not looked back.

      The suggestion about the R-Pi is a good one. I have several in use now including one as my Firewall.

    4. tfewster

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      I'm switching my mother from XP to Linux Mint 18. I've been a Unix sysadmin/engineer for 20+ years, but have to say that Linux Mint is crap. Maybe the least crap of the distros, maybe not as crap as Windows 10, but still crap.

      - Frequently freezes, on a laptop with 3GB of RAM. No informative spinner/hourglass, it just freezes until it decides it's finished. Top and system monitor don't show anything hogging resources.

      - The installed utilities are are supposed to be a carefully curated collection:

      - I opened a hi-res image with the Image Viewer. It displayed the image, then hung, then rebooted the PC. No error messages. Apart from the fact that a user program shouldn't be able to crash a system, where are the logs for a "normal" user to find?

      - mintbackup uses a tar file, so can't back up more than 4.3 GB. No, the option that's supposed to be there to do a "normal" backup doesn't exist. I wrote an rsync script in less time than I'd wasted on reading up on mintbackup.

      - Oh, and Timeshift as a restore tool? How about something that can do backups AND restores? Both data and system?

      - Software Manager + Software Sources + Synaptic Package Manager + Update Manager? Not so much "do one thing and do it well" as "do half a job and do that badly"

      - Screenshot tool that exits after every screenshot, and doesn't remember preferences?

      - The start menu is full of useless garbage, so you have to search/scroll for the useful stuff. Yes, you can do some customisation, but why not start from a clean point?

      - Installing packages supposedly tested on Mint is very hit & miss. Sometimes an install hangs, sometimes it fails. Try a slightly different method, and it works.

      - The install of Teamviewer on the PC I gave to my mum breaks the update manager. The same packages installed on a lower spec PC I kept work OK.

      - Dreadful documentation, support and "knowledge" on the internet. A million forums and how-to's full of garbage.

      - Installs a huge list of "foreign" ttf fonts. No, thank you, I'll install a "language pack" if I want one.

      - Disabling Bluetooth was another case in point. After disabling Bluetooth startup, you eventually find that there's something called Blueberry that starts it up anyway. The Blueberry authors declined to provide a checkbox to disable it. The arrogance in their self-congratulatory post about their cleverness was astounding.

      Say what you want about my (lack of) skills, but no way is Linux usable by end users.

      1. Updraft102

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Say what you want about my (lack of) skills, but no way is Linux usable by end users.

        As far as your experience with Linux goes, there's not enough evidence to conclude that "Linux" is not usable by end users. All you can conclude that Linux Mint, of one specific version, is not usable as it is currently configured and installed on one specific system.

        Your experiences with Mint don't match mine, and I've set it up on quite a lot of systems by now. I use Mint as my main OS on all three of my primary PCs, though I still keep Windows around in a dual-boot setup for the odd thing I need it for (which seldom if ever happens anymore, thanks to VMs). Mint for me tends to work brilliantly right out of the box, in contrast to Windows, which usually ends up with a generic, terribly slow VGA driver for the GPU and it often can't find drivers for basic things like Intel wifi and ethernet cards, leaving the user to try to locate them without a working internet connection. Linux Live sessions have never failed to find and auto-configure my network adapters and let me know that wifi access points are available (using various Intel, Realtek, and QC/Atheros wifi and ethernet adapters).

        You seem to be comparing Windows that has already been installed by someone else, like the computer OEM, to an OS you install yourself. Preinstalled Linux would be the same way, since the various tweaks and adjustments to get things working would already be done. They're something you need to do in Windows bare-metal installations too. While Linux installs for me have usually (if not always) been a lot closer to being ready out of the box than Windows installs, they all are going to need some tweaks and adjustments before they can be considered ready for use. When you get Windows preinstalled, that's already been done.

        As far as stability is concerned... I've never had Mint crash or freeze. Well, let me amend that-- I've never had Mint crash or freeze unless there were underlying hardware problems. Once those were resolved, Mint has been as stable as it is possible to be. So has Windows, for that matter, but the versions of Windows I am willing to use are on numbered days. Still quite a large number for 8.1, but numbered they are. Windows 10... no. Just no.

        It's kind of pointless to compare pre-10 Windows to Linux, because pre-10 Windows has no future, and is actively being sabotaged by its own creator in the time it has left. Yeah, Windows XP was great, and so was 7 (and it still is, for now, when MS isn't breaking it with updates and security fixes that make it even less secure than it was before). Win 8.1 can be too if you install Classic Shell, Old New Explorer, install a custom theme, and remove all of the apps by unofficial means. That will buy you a few years, maybe. Or maybe not, depending on how many bugs MS introduces "accidentally" in the course of fixing security issues.

        On my Sandy Bridge desktop, my XP-era AMD Turion laptop, my Core 2 Duo laptop, my low-end Dell Braswell laptop (mfd. 2017), or the Dell Kaby Lake i5 gaming laptop (mfd. 2018) I bought and really tried to like, but ended up returning, Linux, in one of its Ubuntu-based distros, worked flawlessly (though Kubuntu had some annoyances right out of the box; Mint didn't). In fact, it was incompatibility with Windows (other than 10) that was one of the contributing factors in my returning the 2018 Dell (specifically, the Synaptics touchpad driver had to be force-installed and couldn't be made to obey any of the settings in its own UI, and the touchpad failed to work after resuming from standby).

        Kubuntu 18.04 worked flawlessly on the 2018 Dell after the first round of updates, right down to the variable brightness backlight control for the keyboard, while the others, running Mint Cinnamon (various versions since 2015), worked well right off the bat. I did have to fiddle around to get Prime Sync working in Kubuntu, but Prime itself (which allows switching from the integrated Intel GPU to the discrete Nvidia GPU) worked perfectly (though not automatically as in Windows... that's up to Nvidia to fix, since they won't let the Linux community have the info they would need to do it themselves). It was as easy as starting the driver manager and clicking the radio button from "Nouveau" to "Nvidia proprietary driver" and letting it reboot.

        Timeshift isn't meant to be a full bare-metal backup. It's meant to be the equivalent of Windows' System Restore, only with a lot more flexibility, and it works brilliantly in that capacity. It can do both data and system (which System Restore cannot), and it can back up and restore both quite easily. I'm not sure why you're suggesting it can't. I've used it for both and found it easy and effective (and as an added plus, you can store the data on a USB drive, so it's not sitting there taking up HDD/SSD/eMMC drive space all the time).

        What do you get as far as backup programs in Windows? Windows 7 had a backup utility that wasn't able to image my HDD's >2 TB partition, since it was written before GPT and hadn't been updated, and the UI has been removed from Windows post-7. So you're stuck using the command line, which puts you into the same situation you're in with rsync on Linux if you don't like any of the other tools.

        Perhaps Terabyte Backup for Linux is more in line with what you want. It's a commercial product, but it has a free trial period to evaluate it and see if it is what you want. Personally, I use Aomei Backupper Free for Windows... it backs up and restores Linux partitions from within Windows or from the USB rescue drive without a hitch. It's one of the few things I still use Windows (not in a VM) for.

        I don't like the behavior of the GNOME screenshot tool in its most recent Mint versions either. I want it to automatically save the full screen image when I hit PrintScreen, not pop up a dialog asking me what to do with it each time. This actually was how it behaved in older Mint versions (17.3, I think, at the latest), and I seem to remember that it gave the option of opening a dialog if you set a preference, so I am not sure why they didn't just change the default pref rather than modify the whole program (they say that customers complained that it didn't ask them what to do with the captured image).

        To fix this, I use Synaptic to force the version to the Xenial version, then lock it so it doesn't try to upgrade it again. Fixed!

        The software management is one of the best things about Mint specifically, IMO. Synaptic is a package manager, which is not exactly the same as a software manager. One's the Mint version of the Google Play store, while the other is a graphical frontend for the apt command. Synaptic is a power user tool, while Software Center is geared toward beginners.

        The Mint software manager is better, IMO, than its Ubuntu equivalent, though I don't have any need for it personally (I use Synaptic or the command line) and the update manager in Mint is simply far and away superior to the unified software center in Ubuntu, IMO, which contains the updater as well (the kernel version manager is particularly good). If you don't agree, you can certainly try a Ubuntu proper (or maybe the Ubuntu manager can be installed into Mint, since it uses the Ubuntu repo too; I haven't tried) and see if it is more to your liking.

        As far as the help you get online... I haven't found much difference in quality between the stuff for Windows and the stuff for Linux. In both cases, a search will often return a lot of outdated info and other irrelevant faff, and it's up to you to sort through and find the nugget you're looking for amid all of the nonsense. The only real difference is that there are official Microsoft forums, but have you actually looked at them? If you get any useful advice there, it almost certainly won't come from an actual MS employee. You're far more likely to find good answers on a third-party site, and that's the same as finding answers for Linux.

        There are a lot of things in Mint that are really simple and "just work." The other day, I was asked to scan a two-page paper document and send it in PDF form to a certain addressee. I was in Windows, so I loaded the Scan and fax program, then scanned the document. When I went to save it, I saw that it only was willing to use image formats (BMP, JPG, PNG). I didn't have a separate print-to-PDF utility installed at that moment, and the print-to-file function in Windows doesn't do PDF (at least not in 8.1). Not wanting to mess around with it, I rebooted into Linux and used the Mint-included Simple Scan... and simple it is! Performing the task I described was as simple as positioning page 1 on the scanner, hitting SCAN on Simple Scan, positioning page 2 on the scanner, hitting SCAN again, then hit Save... it pops up a dialog and allows save to PDF without further ado. As an aside, I never had to install a scanner or printer driver for my Canon MF3010 all-in-one in Mint, but Windows couldn't do a thing with them until I gave it the driver.

        There are a lot of things like that in Linux. I don't like Blueberry much, but Blueman IMO is the way a PC Bluetooth program should be. I only wish there was something like it for Windows.

        Linux (in any form) is far from perfect, but so is Windows. I wouldn't even have the knowledge or experience to debate this if Windows 10 had not come along. I would happily have kept using Windows and not given Linux more than a curious glance. I'm a creature of habit, and if I have something that works for me, I keep it... which is why I stuck with Windows XP for about a dozen years. Windows 10... well, even you said that it probably sucks more than Mint, which is saying something given how little you like Mint. And since that's the future of Windows, I say... Mint it is.

        1. TReko
          Thumb Up

          Re: PC Updated itself last night

          Good review!

        2. tfewster

          @Updraft102 Re: PC Updated itself last night

          Thank you for your detailed response. I do appreciate the thought and effort you've put into it, but I politely disagree with you.

          - I'm happy you've had no problems with installs and stability. Maybe you're smarter than I am. Maybe you put more effort into configuring and troubleshooting something that should "just work". I still maintain that a real end-user could not have got as far as I did with this setup. Maybe it's a weird Lenovo N200 hardware combo. I doubt that the hardware is faulty, as it ran XP flawlessly for years. Please, recommend a basic laptop model that you can guarantee will work, and I'll try that. I really, really want this to work!

          By the way, I've installed Windows from scratch a few times (dead disks and own-builds). Yes, had problems with WiFi and displays, but always got a working wired connection to download drivers.

          - (May be Mint MATE specific) You don't see a problem with menu options labelled Backup (mintbackup) and Restore (Timeshift)? Or something labelled "Software Manager" that doesn't manage installed software?

          (I'm sorry, I haven't actually looked into what Timeshift does yet. And I was partly wrong about the screenshot tool - it does remember the last save location)

          Maybe you _do_ need to install other FOSS software to make Linux usable. So why not include that in the Mint distro? Isn't that the point of a distro?

          Teamviewer installs fine on a Lenovo N100, but breaks the PPAs on an N200 installed from the same image. Hang on, that's not a hardware or a UI problem. Delete & reinstall? Same problem.

          Here's a thought, why not put the backup icon on the Start menu, to prompt people every time? Rather more useful there than, say, Software Manager. Yes, it's all configurable, but why not start with useful choices? I'm torn over the Terminal icon there - I'd use it a lot, but real end-users should not need to.

          Regarding online help: It doesn't help that googling "Linux Mint 18 (problem description)" seems to ignore most of the search criteria. Hey, Google, it's about the quality of the results returned, not the number or the popularity.

          Mint vs. Windows 10? Poorly designed, high maintenance software vs. a horrible UI, forced upgrades and spyware? Hmm, tough choice.

          1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

            Re: @ tfewster

            I have never had stability issues with desktop PCs and Linux (generally Ubuntu), but have had some buggy wifi with laptops and occasional no-display. But equally some people have stability/BSOD with various Windows machines for never adequately explained reasons.

            If you want ones that are good and definitely work then check out Entroware:


            Otherwise some folk have decent results from cheap HP laptops, and you can get one *basic* model with only FreeDOS for under £200 with various people saying it worked fine with Linux:


          2. Stoneshop

            Re: @Updraft102 PC Updated itself last night

            Please, recommend a basic laptop model that you can guarantee will work, and I'll try that. I really, really want this to work!

            Thinkpads. Even a lowly X30, and up from there an X31, X40T, X60, T61, and X201. Oh, and an Ideapad S10 and a Samsung N100. No problems really, although the X3xes and the S10 (with only 2G memory) are a bit sluggish, even with Mint XFCE. The N100 has a SSD, and is quite workable. But no actual problems with any of them installing or running Mint (the others run Mint Mate).

            Dell is OK, and even offers machines preinstalled with Ubuntu, so Mint should be fine on those too. A ten year old Dell Latitude that was my work laptop is still running fine as far as I know.

            Stay away from Acer. Unless you're wielding an axe or sledgehammer.

            Note that all but the X3xes were installed by my GF, who started using Linux two and a half years ago. The only assistance required was with partitioning the harddisk, and that was mainly because Mint does not (yet) offer a predefined partitioning scheme using a separate home partition. Which saves a lot of effort if you ever have to reinstall the OS, or want to install a different distro (replacement or multiboot).

            Regarding online help: It doesn't help that googling "Linux Mint 18 (problem description)"

            Try the Linux Mint forum

      2. Jakester

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        First - I have experienced issues of locking with Ubuntu and lubuntu 18.04. I suspect you would have the same issue with Mint 18.

        I have been using Ubuntu 12.04, then 14.04, then 16.04 and also lubuntu 16.04 without issue on several home computers and a home server. I also use Ubuntu/lubuntu 16.04 for a couple business servers and backup systems. If you have to run Windows for some reason, such as the 'wife unit' and any programs that you just have to have Windows, put in a virtual machine using Virtualbox. My wife is more comfortable with Windows. I make a snapshot of the Windows VM's about once a month. If ever hit by a virus, or I suspect there could have been a virus installation attempt, I just restore to the snapshot I want to go back to. The process takes only a few seconds and will get you exactly to the state the VM was in when the snapshot was made. This came in handy when Win 10 rel 1803 recently installed and broke my wife's installation. Just a simple click stop the VM and restore to the last snapshot, reboot - job complete. I manually installed 1803 from the disk iso later without problem.

        1. Bezukhov

          Re: PC Updated itself last night

          My complaint with the Ubuntu family is after a while I can't update the kernel, there's a message along the lines that there's no room for it. Mint, happily, has a GUI that lets me remove old kernels just with a few clicks.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        "Frequently freezes, on a laptop with 3GB of RAM. No informative spinner/hourglass, it just freezes until it decides it's finished. Top and system monitor don't show anything hogging resources."

        Never had any performance issues on an i3-4330 with 4GB RAM using the integrated graphics chip. Hell, it runs quickly as a VM within Windows on my i7-4600U (dual-core).

        "I opened a hi-res image with the Image Viewer. It displayed the image, then hung, then rebooted the PC"

        Never had that, even opening 70MB 36MP JPEGs

        "mintbackup uses a tar file, so can't back up more than 4.3 GB"

        It can also do directory copies and zip files - just pick the option. From memory, I don't think it can do incremental backups, which is a bigger issue for me.

        "Oh, and Timeshift as a restore tool? How about something that can do backups AND restores? Both data and system?"

        It's a *system restore* tool for getting the OS back to a working state - for data use the data backup tool. I know some people want a tool to do everything, but realistically backing up the OS and data separately is a better idea as they change at differing rates, are typically vastly different sizes, logically not inter-dependent, etc

        "Installing packages supposedly tested on Mint is very hit & miss. Sometimes an install hangs, sometimes it fails."

        Literally never had this.

        "Say what you want about my (lack of) skills, but no way is Linux usable by end users."

        My retired, computer-illiterate, parents have been using it for 3 years, with no issues and no help from me.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Not my experience no hangs here on 3 machines, maybe a couple in five years. You have something set up wrong or a hardware fault. It's way more stable than Windows. The mint forums are always helpful. Use system back if you want windows like restore points.

      5. Tigra 07

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Pinta isn't very good for the basic editing i sometimes like to do and GIMP is far too complex. Kolourpaint is fine, but still not as good as paint. I am planning to try GIMP again in future though when i have time to handle the steep learning curve.

      6. Chris Coles

        MINT Desperately needs a decent handbook

        "- Dreadful documentation, support and "knowledge" on the internet. A million forums and how-to's full of garbage."

        Could not agree more. MINT is delivered with everything one needs other than being able to purchase documentation that gives a complete listing of the packages and how to use them. Not everyone that moved from MS to Linux has a background in software; no one seems to care about those of us that just want to use the software for other purposes than self congratulation.

        1. christooo

          Re: MINT Desperately needs a decent handbook

          Great comment. Too many show offs.

      7. TCook1943

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Why IS it that "Mint" has become another word for Linux. It isn't, its a distribution based on Ubunto which is itself crap.

        There are literally hundreds of distributions out there which do not have the bugs reported here. Just as a suggestion you could always try OpenSuse, an independent RPM based distribution one of the Mandriva based distriibutions like PcLinuxOs, (Which BTW is a rolling release which makes use of Synaptic as its installer) or Mageia.

        If you are drawn to Debian based packages, which I can well understand, try a package a wee bit closer to the baseline.

        Either way the niggles you report will be behind you.

      8. Laughing Gravy

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Not my experience with Mint of many versions over the years and on a variety of hardware. It's been rock solid for me and the many folks I've switched over to it. Support calls from friends and family are now zero (I refuse to deal with Windows issues anymore), happy all round.

      9. cmaurand

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        I installed ubuntu mate. It's a better mint than mint. Use the btrfs filesystem. It does subvolumes, snapshots and snapshots can be stored externally. I've tried them all.

        Look at btrbackup. It does a lot of what a Datto appliances does.

        1. Tigra 07

          Re: PC Updated itself last night

          To be fair to him Mint LTS doesn't run very well on my hardware but Ubuntu LTS does perfectly. I've said once before in another thread that my internet would cut off every 10 minutes unless i restart. Then there's the crashing and freezing issues i had too. Ubuntu works flawlessly and has been very reliable for me.

      10. frankgifford

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        I have tried mint several times in recent years. I always run into a "show stopper" early on. Ubuntu has been my go to distro. However, I very recently tried Manjaro, base distro with xfce. It is rock solid so far. Highly recommended

      11. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Freezing PC ? sounds like a Harddisk with bad sectors

        If your PC is showing symptoms like this:


        > - Frequently freezes, on a laptop with 3GB of RAM.

        > No informative spinner/hourglass, it just freezes until

        > it decides it's finished. Top and system monitor don't

        > show anything hogging resources.

        Then this cause is usually a harddisk with bad sectors. SMART monitoring and error reporting is poor in both Linux and Windows, and the system behaviour of Linux and Windows has been the same in the past: Freezing for 30 seconds per error.

      12. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Linux is quite bloated nowadays, in most distros. Sad.

        1. onefang

          Re: PC Updated itself last night

          "Linux is quite bloated nowadays, in most distros. Sad."

          But at least you can choose to use one of the popular non bloated distros. Or if you have the time, and a large bottle of geek juice, LFS and friends.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: PC Updated itself last night

            "But at least you can choose to use one of the popular non bloated distros."

            Yes, of course. It's just a bit sad that the most popular distro has become so bloated.

            Mint seems a bit better, and is apparently based on Debian, so should provide similar levels of hardware compatibility.

            1. onefang

              Re: PC Updated itself last night

              "Mint seems a bit better, and is apparently based on Debian"

              Mint is based on Ubuntu, which in turn is based on Debian.

    5. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      My home machine (ie with fairly non-standard hardware) bluescreened during the update process, but then rebooted and continued just fine. Not sure what that was about.

      So far this year I've had more problems with grub updates bricking machines than Windows, but I suppose I do deal with more linux than Windows these days so it's hard to tell which is better.

    6. cmaurand

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      That's why I switched to Linux several months ago. Couldn't take windows updating itsepf after I completely disabled automatic updating (disabled the Windows update service after setting everything to manual updating) updates...or so I thought.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      This would never happen on my apple Mac Book Pro

      1. Michael Kean

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        Won't happen to your MacBook?

        How about that update that disabled the Ethernet port on some Macs? Bad luck if you don't have WiFi. Microsoft isn't alone in producing crap updates.

    8. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      I switched a long time ago.

      Started playing with Linux back in the late 90's shortly after I had played with DOS/Win 3.1 and settled on win 98 and up on PC's that I built myself as a teen by reading up in the library (no internet or computer access outside of school).

      I played with all aspects of Linux from installing a different distro regularly to building kernels and my own custom live systems running off bootable floppies. I was in heaven! I almost ate man pages for breakfast. Windows and DOS paled in comparison and I wondered how they were considered operating systems when they came with basically nothing more than notepad and paint.

      Anyway I soon realised I was no longer dual booting to windows. I came home from uni, switched on the pc, booted linux (it did it by default), opened XawTV which let me watch TV on my PC (Fresh Prince and Buffy were on BBC 2) while eating some dinner and doing coursework (slowly as Buffy was followed by Farscape). I even would browse teletext on it, watch VHS tapes and DVD's.

      It must have been about 3 months before I realised I hadnt booted windows once. I only realised this when I HAD to boot windows, to play a windows game.

      So to this day all my machines except 1 run only Linux (I intend on playing with FreeBSD and Haiku again). That single 1 machine dual boots windows and linux and windows is used only booted to play windows games or use sony vegas.

    9. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      "Thanks microsoft for "asking" whether you could install a new version but in hindsight, with microsofts "All your windows belong to us" attitude now, not surprising <sigh>"

      It's not just an attitude, it's an official change in the system. At one point during the update on my tablet, there was a message specifically stating that "Windows is a service...blah blah blah" I strongly suspect that within a year or so we'll start seeing offers for monthly subscriptions to new features and updates, probably with a minimum 12 month contract.

    10. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: PC Updated itself last night

      I got the 1803 version like that too. Only took about 5 hours to install.

      One of my USB devices isn't recognised any longer.

      Thanks so much, MS.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: PC Updated itself last night

        To update, rolling back from 1803 did actually work. And didn't even take 5 hours.

  2. Ben Rose
    Paris Hilton


    Avast has been painful for years, I binned it off in the Windows 7 era as it got more bloated and buggy. No surprise it's causing problems.

    To be honest, having any commercial AV active during an OS upgrade has always been technology suicide anyway. Surprised Microsoft don't detect it during prerequisite checks and just say no.

    Paris - because even she doesn't check for viruses before overnight maintenance.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Avast?

      @Ben Rose

      Or at least have the basic courtesy to allow users to temporarily disable the antivrus.

  3. Anonymous Coward
  4. iron Silver badge

    Not Avast Me Hearties!

    I updated last week while running Avast and after the requisite 35 minutes or so everything was working fine and has been since. So it is unlikely that Avast is to blame.

    1. Vince

      Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

      Sample size of 1. Conclusive proof then.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

        My machine is fine. It’s a Mac.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

          > My machine is fine. It’s a Mac.

          So is mine. It's a Raspberry Pi. And I have a pocket full of cash I didn't spunk into Apple's wallet.

      2. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

        "Sample size of 1. Conclusive proof then."

        One sample is enough to disprove the hypothesis that Avast is to blame.

        Now if your hypothesis was that some versions of Avast in some configurations and in some combinations with other software is to blame then it wouldn't be, but that wasn't the allegation.

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Re: One sample is enough to disprove the hypothesis that Avast is to blame.

          Um, sorry but that rule is for science stuff, not computer stuff.

          Even if you could apply that rule, it would have to be understood that all computers ran the exact same programs on the exact same hardware, and that is just impossible.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

      looks like Avast FAILED to recognize Win-10-nic as "the virus"...

    3. Glenn Booth

      Re: Not Avast Me Hearties!

      I updated while runing Avast. The update got to 24% then just... stopped. I left it overnight, no change, so I rebooted and rolled back. At the time I wasn't aware that Avast might cause problems, so I may give it another go with the AV package disabled.

  5. Chloe Cresswell Silver badge

    Neighbour's laptop updated on sat morning, did exactly this, friend in just posted on twitter they have the same was was able to tell them what they need to get and do.

    I'm expecting some more.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Do you get the choice?

  7. Dwarf

    Windows Schrödinger edition

    Is it alive or is it dead - you only know when you come to use it next time. Its a good job that the people attempting to use the machine don't depend on it for their livelihood or anything.

    I'm so glad that I'm not playing this game any more, Penguins and Apples all the way

    1. Simon Harris

      Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

      "Is it alive or is it dead - you only know when you come to use it next time."

      If Microsoft is going to enforce updates at a time of its choosing (at least for home users), maybe every copy of Windows should come with complimentary external storage large enough to back up the system drive and prompt to plug it in to make a backup before making the updates, on the off-chance that it's going to cock things up.

      1. onefang

        Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

        "maybe every copy of Windows should come with complimentary external storage large enough to back up the system drive"

        Yeah, a couple of TB of what ever Microsoft's cloud storage is called, and several months of transferring everything, that'll be what they give you. Oh wait, doesn't Win10 slurp all your files anyway? Then the only need to transfer things back when things go wrong. Or the NSA can.

      2. Mephistro

        Re: Windows Schrödinger edition (Simon Harris)

        "on the off-chance that it's going to cock things up."

        I've a doubt regarding that sentence in your comment. Is it irony or sarcasm? 8^)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

      Disabling the Windows Update service and manually unplugging your internet connection might help when you shutdown or sleep your PC.

      It's the only way to be sure that nothing happens the next time you start using your PC.

      I might go Apple all the way in future. Maybe keep a dual boot Linux/Windows box for running vintage gaming stuff.

      1. Updraft102

        Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

        Disabling the Windows Update service and manually unplugging your internet connection might help when you shutdown or sleep your PC.

        It's the only way to be sure that nothing happens the next time you start using your PC.

        The unplugging the internet will work. Disabling Windows Update, maybe not. Windows 10 has "self healing" updates, which is MS-speak for "We will find and remove your tricks aimed at regaining control over updates." I think there's a task in the Task Manager that you can find and eliminate, but each time Windows does update (should you allow it), you can expect all of these things to be put back, and you'll have to go through and undo them all again.

        As Joshua would say, it's a strange game.

        1. Jakester

          Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

          The only way you can be sure that Windows 10 will not update is to never expose your computer to the internet.

          1. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

            Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

            Does anybody know which URLs or IP addresses Windows 10 reaches out to to update from so I can blacklist them on my route? I'm sick of Windows 10 updates wrecking my PC. The last update wrecked my wifi drivers and no matter how many times I remove, update, reapply them it just won't work.

            I'm now having to use an external USB wifi adapter :-(


            1. onefang

              Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

              "Does anybody know which URLs or IP addresses Windows 10 reaches out to to update from so I can blacklist them on my route?"

              I know this wont help you, but my one and only Windows box is a development box, purely coz people where paying me for that. It has a white list of those few IPs I needed for the work, nothing else can get through.

        2. Updraft102

          Re: Windows Schrödinger edition


          I wrote "task in the task manager" when I meant "task in the task scheduler."

    3. Schultz

      Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

      It really feels like they bring the quantum uncertainty alive. I updated my computer over lunch yesterday and afterwards some recently edited files were just gone. It was subtle enough to make me doubt my sanity.

      Fortunately, the backed up versions were fine, lost about an hour there (on top of waiting through the bl**dy slow update procedure).

      Oh, and I don't run Avast, but some locally mandated Ahn V3 thingy. Don't get me started on that one.

    4. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

      "I'm so glad that I'm not playing this game any more, Penguins and Apples all the way"

      I've had plenty of failed Linux updates and Apple has a history bricking its stuff, as a quick search here will show.

      Nobody gets updates right every time.

      1. christooo

        Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

        with so many updates it means the product aint right ever.

      2. Avatar of They

        Re: Windows Schrödinger edition

        MS certainly had a much better track record though, back during XP days. I certainly don't remember an XP service pack causing this amount of problems so often.

        And wasn't the fall update, the creators update and a few in between just as bad? Wasn't one update a test update that accidentally got released and bricked a few million machines?

        On release didn't windows 10 have serious issues with drivers? Even now there are blogs dedicated to what to do to turn off Windows 10 things just to make GFX work. (I know as I have had to go through them to make Nvidia GFX work so things go full screen and not windowed)

        MS has fallen very far behind where it used to be liked and trusted.

        I have used Linux for ten years and only had 1 failed update by comparison. that was a Kernal problem with Dell native drivers and it killed the WIFI and bluetooth drivers - in Ubuntu 14.04. They are so rare I even know when and what it was.

  8. a_yank_lurker

    QA Anyone?

    Avast is a well AV vendor so one would think that updating Bloat 10 would be tested by Slurp in house before unleashing the spyware on to the masses.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: QA Anyone?

      Micro-shaft doesn't do 'QA' any more. They fired all of their QA staff just before releasing Win-10-nic upon the masses. Yeah no $#!+ this really happened!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: QA Anyone?

      QA? Insiders are nincompoops, not professional testers.

      Also, the 'QA' has been 'outsourced' to the users who're the first to update. SatNad's little cunning plan to cut costs and 'engage the Windows community'.

  9. pmwhitlow

    I had exactly this problem on possibly the first of our computers to have this upgrade, took me many hours to sort out (finally by downloading a fresh installation of Windows 10 version 1803 from Microsoft to a usb stick).

    My questions

    why did my "invitation" merely talk of new features, and not warn that this was a full version upgrade?

    why was I not warned to disable antivirus programmes? (Yes, I use Avast on all our computers)

    why is there not a warning to back up all data and programmes before installing these "new features"?


    Most unhappy with Microsoft for another forced change which has cost me valuable time, I could have been watching a version of the Great British Bakeoff or planning the route for tomorrow in my HGV , or even sleeping.

    I dream of sleeping .....

    1. Simon Harris

      Talking to my dad the other day (by phone, he's 50 miles away, so I'm only guessing), it sounds like he has the same problem.

      Does the Windows re-installer wipe the desktop and user areas as part of the re-install or is all the old data recoverable afterwards?

      1. pmwhitlow

        I couldn't find anything. Now that I've done a clean install (but beside the old versions) I can get to my files (which I always make directories for on the C drive and never use the "user" area), and I can use some programmes. I haven't put anything on the new desktop yet apart from firefox, irfanview and avast.

    2. PepperTree3

      This! Microsoft should have issued the warning, strongly.

      I ran into this problem on 3 different laptops all using different Virus/Malware protection. The best option if you get hit is to chose to roll back the system to the state before the update. (don't bother with system restore it doesn't work for this large of an update), then turn off the Virus/Malware protection, update, check for more updates, update whatever it offers, reboot then reactivate your virus/malware protection.

  10. DJV Silver badge

    an hour or so?

    "waiting the requisite hour or so for the update do its stuff"

    In my experience it's been more like 3 hours minimum! Good job it's not my main PC - that one's being kept on Win7 for the foreseeable future.

  11. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

    Shiver me timbers.

    I've one in the other room that's updating right now. It runs Avast. I am going in there now; I may be some time

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: Shiver me timbers.

      It was fine.

      1. onefang

        Re: Shiver me timbers.

        It took 16 hours?

  12. fidodogbreath

    More like the five stages of a Windows 10 update: frustration, fury, despair, resignation (to a full re-install), and downloading (of Linux).

  13. Richard Jones 1

    I Saw No Problems (- No ships Either)

    The family's five machines all updated fine, even the slowest portable was done in about 35 minutes. A ten year old Dell portable was ready in less than 30. No problems so far and the first machines went through on the 1st of May, so long enough for any issues to emerge I think.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Saw No Problems (- No ships Either)

      I Saw No Problems

      And at the time of my post you'd got no downvotes (nor deserved any) but all posts that implied any criticism of Mankosoft earned a couple of downvotes without any justification. So the question is, are these from moronic shills who don't know they're being used, or Mankosoft's social media team?

    2. Multivac

      Re: I Saw No Problems (- No ships Either)

      "The family's five machines all updated fine" - I guess that accounts for the 5 up votes then! I'm sure you'll get more when everyone else's machines finally finish updating over the coming weeks LOL!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to fix the installation process, too !

    One cannot expect an OS to install on all PCs without problems.

    But we should be able to expect it to report the reason for its failure to install.

    And for the installer not to repeatedly ask to install the exact same software on the same PC, over and over and over again.

    Why is that beyond Microsoft ?!

    1. Barry Rueger

      Re: Time to fix the installation process, too !

      One cannot expect an OS to install on all PCs without problems.

      No, but you should be able to expect that it will install successfully on the majority of non-exotic hardware. If I'm installing on some weird ass custom gaming machine, then yeah, I'll be taking a risk.

      If I'm installing on a two year old Dell it really, really should just work.

      And should find and set up my printer. Which Win !0 was unable to do.

  15. Giles Jones Gold badge

    I was using Windows 10 for Kodi until the update. After the update I kept losing HDMI audio.

    Using Linux now and everything behaves perfectly.

  16. TheGreatCabbage

    Had no issues on 2 machines, but I know 1 person who got this issue and it sounds like someone else has too.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Update and shutdown" would be better described as "Shutdown then update tomorrow" (when you don't have time to wait).

  18. J.Smith

    Metered connection

    Settings app - Network & Internet - set connection to 'metered', and avoid the auto install of all new crap. I was fortunate to get this done before this update released, so I can avoid the nightmare I had with fall creators update. Too late for many, but a trick to keep in mind for the next 'feature' update which will happen, as night follows day.

    I'll permit the April update after at least the 3rd bug fix... and after a stiff drink.

    Windows nags me that there are updates that need to be allowed, I shun the message.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Metered connection

      Except for updates that Microsoft deem "important", and steal your bandwidth anyway.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Always-on updates... not that great an idea after all is it?

    Made worse as Microsoft keeps cramming new (often frivolous) features with every subsequent major update, resulting in no better stability for the code. In the good old days, unless it's some archaic or catastrophic exploit, you knew for certain that the stuff fixed in SP1 wouldn't recur in SP2.

    But since Windows 10 is the 'last edition of Windows', Microsoft has to polish and re-polish its turd and convince you that it's something shiny and new. In other words: 'innovation'.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: Always-on updates... not that great an idea after all is it?

      At some point, they'll probably re-name it to get the focus away from the turd in the sandbox. It'll still be there but just called something else, like "Windows 11"...

      1. onefang

        Re: Always-on updates... not that great an idea after all is it?

        'It'll still be there but just called something else, like"Windows 11"...'

        Windows 2 Infinity And Beyond? Windows ∞ - 1? Ubuntu Whining Windows? Windows SystemD Edition?

        I'll get me coat me hearties, it's the one with the longer left sleeve to cover me hook, and the parrot droppings down the back.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    None of those Insiders have a test rig with the Avast antivirus software installed?

    What's going on?

  21. tempemeaty


    So what antivirus programs are the Windows 10 updates tested with?


    1. Updraft102

      Re: Testing?

      So what antivirus programs are the Windows 10 updates tested with?

      Whichever ones consumers use while running Windows 10 for the first few weeks (months?) after the release of a new build.

  22. Mark 85

    Need to change "standard practices" for users.

    Microsoft helpfully provides a tool to do this very thing, although you will need a working PC on hand to make it work – something that might be a problem if your only PC has been borked.

    Shouldn't this be "standard practice" with Win 10? Download the tool ahead of time and keep it safe?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Need to change "standard practices" for users.

      Shouldn't this be "standard practice" with Win 10? Download the tool ahead of time and keep it safe?

      Nah, standard practice is you never use it for anything productive, since it hasn't proven itself to be dependable tool*.

      *I can totally imagine using a hammer (Windows 10) and seeing its head flying off every time I use it. It gets even better when the hammer gets upgraded!

      1. onefang

        Re: Need to change "standard practices" for users.

        "I can totally imagine using a hammer (Windows 10) and seeing its head flying off every time I use it. It gets even better when the hammer gets upgraded!"

        They upgrade it to a bigger hammer, that does more damage when the head flies off the end. The upgrade after that is a small rocket engine in the head, for those hard to hammer through things, that flies around the room when it comes off. Smart people upgrade their hardware before the third upgrade, stronger walls, strong mesh protecting the windows, full body armour, ...

  23. CJatCTi

    Forced Changes

    When you have a boot manager for dual booting Windows 10 or Linux, it gets disabled so you can only boot into Windows 10.

    One Drive auto sync gets installed & loads on boot even when you have removed One Drive from the PC

    1. Updraft102

      Re: Forced Changes

      When you have a boot manager for dual booting Windows 10 or Linux, it gets disabled so you can only boot into Windows 10.

      I've heard of this anecdotally, but I've never seen it in the limited contact I have had with Windows 10 in dual-boot setups. I'm a proponent of dual-boot setups, and I have them on all of my PCs that have enough space for more than one OS (in other words, all but my cheapy laptop with a 32GB eMMC "hard drive" that can't be upgraded).

      Some of my Windows-using compatriots on other forums are fearful about dual-boot because of these reports, and are either avoiding it or are pondering unusual configurations like external a/b power switches for internal hard drives... but as I see it, if you're running Windows 10, it's a disaster waiting to happen one way or another, so you had better have a plan "B" even if you aren't dual booting. Backups (full system images) are essential.

      That said, repairing a GRUB dual-boot setup is easy. Grab an ISO for the Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and write it to the USB drive (or an actual disc if you like) of your choice. Boot the PC that needs repair from the USB drive/disc, and select HDD, then Boot Management from the menu. One of the options will be Super GRUB2 Disc... select that, then follow the menus (I can't remember the exact options) to list all of the operating systems on the hard drive. Select your Linux from the list (your choice of whatever kernels you have installed), and let it go... it will take longer than usual, but it will (hopefully) boot your Linux, from which you can then open a terminal window and type (at least in Mint)

      sudo grub-install /dev/sda

      or sdb, sdc, etc., depending on where you want the bootloader. Most of the time, it will be sda.

      That should do it... it always has for me (when I have messed up GRUB by other means... it's never been Windows that did it, though I don't use 10 either).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Forced Changes

        Some of my Windows-using compatriots on other forums are fearful about dual-boot because of these reports, and are either avoiding it or are pondering unusual configurations like external a/b power switches for internal hard drives...

        Putting the boot partitions on the side, if their computer is a desktop, they could just install windows and linux on separate hard drives and boot into it accordingly with bios settings.

        It is the easiest and cleanest way to boot into another OS without Windows causing boot partition issue.

        1. onefang

          Re: Forced Changes

          After my experiences with Windows installs in the '90s, I dual boot by keeping the different OSes on separate hard drives, in disk caddies, and only one in the machine at a time, if one of them is Windows.

  24. acudoctor1

    I updated 2 days ago. Lost everything on my laptop. I am running Avast.

    1. AJ MacLeod

      The home directories ("User" folders) should still be there, just a bit more difficult to get to. Booting off a Linux USB drive, or hooking the hard drive up to another PC would be the easiest way, although you could also probably do it with cmd.exe if you're comfortable with DOS commands... I was able to launch cmd.exe (via windowskey-r) on the machine I saw with this.

  25. AJ MacLeod

    Seen this too (with AVG installed)

    Got a PC in this vicious circle just now; you can't roll back as that fails, you can't use system restore as there aren't any restore points; Windows helpfully tells you to reset your PC but the reset option isn't available!

    Best you can do is boot to a "different OS", i.e. back to your botched non-desktop. Most stuff won't run - stuff as basic as Explorer for example. services.msc does, control panel doesn't; disabling the AVG related services doesn't help at all.

    Looks like the only way out for this is a reinstall from scratch. I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I needed to do that for Windows 7 (and previous) - you can virtually always fix it when things go wrong. With 8 onwards, if the various basic "system restore" s fail, you've had it. Utter rubbish.

    I think the person who owns this PC may get it back running Linux (with her consent of course)- she only needs it for basic word processing and email, and at least once she's got used to which buttons to click for Libreoffice and Thunderbird they will stay put. With Windows 10, who knows what the next unwanted update is going to add/remove/destroy?

  26. Geezheeztall

    Like others have said, I was under the impression it was a security update, but nope... Creators. Aside from cleaning my start menu of all my office apps for their junkware, I had not discovered any other issues until today. Reasons unknown, I cannot record any analog audio from my usb devices using either Audacity or Audition, all which worked before the update. I used to like Windows, but now it's an irritant.

    1. Blake Davis

      Check your Microphone Privacy settings.

    2. Elmer Phud

      If anything it's now easier to slurp audio with Audacity.

      Was a bit of a faff before but there's loads of advice on how simple it is to set up Audacity to do this.'

      'What U Hear' went ages ago, now you need to do a little bit more.

  27. cwilly8

    Killed my laptop, reinstalled Windows, and now 1803 is in the queue again!

    What an outrage! After 1803 killed my laptop, I went through the ordeal of reinstalling Windows (the "easy" part) and the reinstalling all of my apps (a huge task that is still ongoing). But then, the first time Windows checked for updates, guess what??? It decided to try to install 1803 again. I have put it out into the future, and supposedly a MS tech helped my stop future auto updates, but I definitely don't have any confidence that I'm safe from the dreaded update. In the meantime, I can't shutdown or restart the computer without 1803 install happening, because it's in the queue. Please, Microsoft, can't you give us a break?

    1. JBowler

      Re: Killed my laptop, reinstalled Windows, and now 1803 is in the queue again!

      Change the updated settings to the big business ones:

      Settings/Windows Update/Choose when updates are installed

      select "Semi-annual Channel" from the drop down. I did this to my wife's SP4; she is Chinese and needs a working Chinese IME. She is still on whatever it was prior to 1709 (the release that broke the IME). Works for me, Microsoft aren't paying me to test their software and neither are Big Business paying. Time to change that Microsoft?

    2. onefang

      Re: Killed my laptop, reinstalled Windows, and now 1803 is in the queue again!

      "Please, Microsoft, can't you give us a break?"

      They did give you a break, broke your laptop, and they are offering to do it again. What more do you want?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Back in the needed to know what you were doing to reinstall windows

    Now windows update does it for you.

    But is it Microsoft you call when it fails?

    Are they the ones getting it in the neck because someone can't work?

  29. pro-logic

    The 1803 update really did a number on my 7 (almost 8) year old desktop.

    After the update the start menu stopped working, which arguably is a upgrade not a downgrate, but anyway.

    Also as part of the update process Microsoft had 'helpfully' reverted the driver for my RAID to a old Microsoft one. Which resulted in stupidly long DCP calls pretty much totally killing performance of the system.

    Luckily the fix while time consuming was rather simple.

    Fiddle with some BIOS settings to disable the old Intel RAID. Change disks from RAID to AHCI. I actually pulled out the RAID a while back, because the system was working, I didn't fiddle with BIOS, cos if it ain't broke!

    Fixing the start menu not working was a case of doing a in-place 'upgrade'.

    Still, none of that should have to have been done if the update wasn't a total untested turd.

  30. Simon Rockman

    Agreeing to let the update install resulted in a borked docking station - suddenly my ethernet and USB connections all died. Took an hour on the phone to Dell tech support to get it fixed.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Was that a Dell issue then and NOT W10?

  31. elvisimprsntr

    Excommunicated Microsoft from my home 10+ years ago. Linux and macOS is all I need. Plenty of open source software and my wallet is much fatter from all the $ I've saved.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Bless, your halo is in the post.

      mere mortals can't be arsed to faff around with various penguin breeds.

  32. Barry Rueger

    The Real Dilemma

    It's fine and dandy for knowledgeable people (or at least those who think they are) to declare that it's better to not install Microsoft upgrades, or at least wait a few months until they've proved themselves.

    The challenge is what do you do with Uncle Joe, the average computer user that doesn't want to know the inner workings of his PC, but still wants to be safe? My experience has been that it's better to leave auto-update turned on, and know that regardless of what other problems might emerge, at least any security updates will get applied as quickly as possible.

    I guess Uncle Joe's advantage is that he likely has a bog standard PC, unchanged from the day that he bought it, so in most cases updates will just work without too much trouble.

  33. DiViDeD

    Misery loves Company - as long as the Company isn't Microsoft

    Latest update appears to have broken *everything* except FireFox. Startup is a litany of 'The program was unable to start correctly' messages like the dark days of over ambitious virus attacks.

    Ah well, at least I know what I'll be going when I get home - clean install, quick google to find out which games & drivers I'll be losing and then avaunt to the best Linux distro - thank goddess for Steam on Linux!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Misery loves Company - as long as the Company isn't Microsoft


      Which Firefox are you referring to? Classic or Quantum?

      Also, 32-bit or 64-bit?

  34. rmm200

    Feature Update 1803

    Not really expecting the Feature Update, it dropped on me last Friday. This was a Tower system with an Intel SSD for system boot.

    Whatever the update did - the boot disk was unusable. No system checkpoint or rollback available.

    None of the normal Windows tools, like chkdsk or fixboot helped. Windows ISO download did not help.

    Interestingly enough, Acronis True Image had no trouble reading the disk. Something in 1803 is not compatible with the boot device.

    Gave up trying to fix the problem, so I used the Windows 10 ISO to reinstall Windows. Would not activate; could not find the digital license. Microsoft wants me to buy a new license for the system they broke. This was a Vista system originally, with a paid upgrade to Windows 8, and a free upgrade to Windows 10 from there. In theory - I could reinstall Vista and do the upgrades again - but Microsoft no longer offers the free Windows 10 upgrade. And Microsoft wonders why people hate them...

  35. SaltyWagyu

    Windows 10 LTSB

    No need to switch to Linux, Windows 10 LTSB is without the cruft of Store, edge, cortana, and the bi-annual big updates that mess things up. Still gets monthly security updates. Should ease those frustrations! Last release was 2016 and next one is planned in 2019 or so.

  36. JBowler

    Why would anyone install a 3rd party replacement for core OS functionality?

    Like, duh. Protecting the core of the system against attack is the responsibility of the OS vendor. After some delay Microsoft now does this (unlike certain fruity people, and Linus).

    I had a Surface Pro4, it updated fine (this machine; my serious compute machine, still hasn't volunteered me). The SP died some weeks afterward because, I believe, of a failed fan; it's out for $450 support (replacement). Nothing to do with W10, something to do with MS's mistake of putting moving parts in the "high" end machines.

    The probably permanent Cortex(?) "SP" replacement (Microsoft no longer do numbers, watch out Linus; no numbers are even cheaper) upgraded itself today while I was setting it up. I had to kill it during one of the "don't turn me off or I will die" moments, but then that is to be expected with a modern OS; if it can't survive that what good is it?

    Bottom line, as we say over here, don't throw gasoline (petrol) over someone else and blame them for catching fire.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obviously rubbish AV software is going to be a likely cause of update issues as it does its thing, whatever that is.

    The only thing I noticed about this update is that some file associations got lost, so when you double click a file, it asks what program it should be associated with.

    Also, previously saved MSTSC credentials got trashed

  38. TheresaJayne

    this update didnt remove malwarebytes like the last few did,

    It inserted a win 10 settings page between the speaker icon on the task bar and into the playback/recording config settings.

    My friend had a broken internet protocol which stopped him getting online for a while.

    It did disable all my speakers and headsets putting control into a VB Virtual Cable for everything including Communications.

    Another of my friends has obtained the Win 7 game pack to play MahJong but every update uninstalls her MalwareBytes and the games pack.

  39. Anonymous Coward


    Friends don’t let friends run FUD bloatware like Avast, Norton, Kaspersky etc etc

    1. handle bars

      Re: Seriously

      Friends do, because friends know that people are not good at looking after themselves and the branded products bring "confidence" in application.

      How many non techie friends do you know who have managed to absolutely write off their hardware by getting their machines clogged with mallware, messed up "open with" options so dredful apps open to do simple things like music, video or picture.

      Friends would rather their friends get a balck cab home rather than chance their bad choices with a random car they flag down.

      1. Elmer Phud

        Re: Seriously

        I'm having to deal with constant calls from one mate about Kaspersky being far too intrusive.

        Of course, when advised by Kaspersky, he does what Kaspersky asks -- and I have to sort out the resultant mess or lack of access.

        'Just don't pay for another year - the reason you get funny emails is that you go on funny sites'. but the bugger still clicked.

        Malwarebytes and Defender seem to work well together, I had enough of Avast chewing up resources.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Seriously

        Friends do...

        Real friends don't. Real friends take the effort to swim across the internet and return to find a working alternative (windows 7-8.1, linux, macOS, etc with other security measures. If you couldn't get some specific 'license', then you haven't made enough effort.)

        Real friends makes sure that their friends not only felt like they've return home safely but also actually return home safely. See Windows 10 breaking down once in a while, you called that making sure your friends returning home safe? I've personally witness more than one car on a highway did exactly that and I know that only some of the drivers made it back home.

  40. handle bars

    Every week there is a new random issue indicated by Windows Security Centre's action needed system tray shield icon.

    Naturally after the upgrade which took 3 hours not "the 1" suggested above Norton took a few reboots to start working - yet action centre said nothing was wrong. I also changed the order of what icons were in the tray and what were "hidden" so Norton showed on the tray rather than the MS stuff it decided should be always shown.

    A week later and action centre declared no working virus/malware software. Norton said it was fine and a couple of eicar tests proved it was doing something. again a few reboots were needed for action centre to decide all was ok

    then yesterday action centre decided there was a device performance health issue or two. the wizzard was run which corrected a temporary folder moving issue (?) but could not fix dissapearing app issues (?) a google search on a "type this in" - "net helpmsg 2182" gave up 2 year old confusing stuff so i ignored it... this morning it again had an unhappy shield, yet clicking on it and there were green ticks on every item in "security at a glance" - the shield magically fixed itself to a green tick after that.

    MS should stop peeing around with automatically changing login screen pictures that randomly decide to offer "information buttons" about them and stick to the knitting... no one is impressed when the colourful front door leads to a buggy insides.

  41. mediabeing

    Microsoft has apparently lost its sanity with this update. Abandon ship!!

    I'm hating what the update has done to my PC.

    I'm turning off the 'auto update' option.

    I wonder how many weeks it will be before my desktop is back to normal.

    This incident makes me want to begin research on a non Microsoft operating system that I can replace the Microsoft OS with.

    Operating Systems are supposed to GET BETTER, not worse! What is going on??

    This is by far the worse updating of OS I've every experienced.

    SHAME on Microsoft!! Not cool at all!!

  42. robert seaford

    Clients crashed last w/e

    Wish I'd seen this before now, as tried all tricks to recover system, but had to bite the bullit and do a re-install - fortunately all personal data was on a separate drive.

    Of course system was using Avast, will now expect to see others.

    The whole concept of Microsoft updates on Win10 is ill-thought out and is, in my opinion, the reason why more users are either moving away to alternatives - some have also gone back to Win 7. Microsoft need to go back to the drawing board on the update process.

    I'm sticking to Win 7 on my personal multiboot system (rarely use win 10)

  43. 0laf

    I have a small netbook style laptop, it can't/won't install any updates after January this year. No error code, no accessible log to say what the bloody problem is. Just the message "can't install update because previous update hasn't finished".

    I don't use the machine often enough to be bothered to put the effort in to fix this. I'll see if there is a linux distro about for it soon.

    Windows update is by far the worst element/product/turd that Microsoft has ever produced in a long history of producing large steaming turds.

    'Steaming Turd' Icon needed.

    1. Updraft102

      I have a small netbook style laptop, it can't/won't install any updates after January this year.

      If it has a 32GB "hard drive," it could be that there's not enough room to allow Windows to update. This has been reported with netbook-style laptops from several manufacturers. It didn't stop me from buying one, though in my case I planned from the start to wipe Windows and put Mint on it. I did, and it went from the eMMC "hard drive" being 2/3 full just from Windows to being 2/3 empty with Mint and a bunch of other programs I installed. I did put /home on the external microSD card, but there's not much in there.

    2. tentimes

      Try the Microsoft Windows Update REpair tool - it fixed my update problems.

      1. Avatar of They

        Sad fact.

        The fact there is one of them is the saddest part to this whole Windows 10 mess.

    3. Geeclectic


      See if you have a "Go back to previous Windows version" option (or similar) in your Backup settings. I had a similar issue, and "rolling back" got me passed the "stuck update" thing. I had to reinstall some apps, but had no issues since. Backup critical data first though, just in case!

      1. 0laf

        Re: Rollback?

        It indeed has a 32Gb 'drive' and you can't easily roll back because you have to delete all previous versions of windows to make space to install the new.

        I could stick in a 64Gb sdcard but I doubt Windows would pay much attention to that.

  44. Elmer Phud

    So far . . .

    . . . I've not had any issues with W10 and AV's, unlike a few folks I know.

    But then, I'm only running Defender and don't have other AV progs desperate to keep control at ANY cost.

  45. Enigman

    Asus Laptop users beware

    The Windows 10 April update borks Asus laptop keyboards - I had my laptop update itself while unattended. The Asus keyboard driver has an issue with the update. Updating the driver results in an error message stating the Asus Num Pad device was not compatible with this version of Windows.

    Unfortunately my parents' Asus laptop also had updated itself while they were out. Luckily I had Teamviewer installed, remoted into it and rolled back on both laptops (after first trying to update the driver.)

    1. Tony Paulazzo

      Re: Asus Laptop users beware (and Surface Pro 2017)

      The Windows 10 April update borks...

      Also has been known to update their own hardware SP2017 then blue screen of death a few hours later, (apparently doesn't like the SSD they used).

      Why isn't MS holding off on the updates to run a few more tests? How can they have not even tested it in their own line of PCs? Why is no one holding them to account?

      They're really starting to piss me off!

      Edit: It also borked my Miix310 wifi adapter, have to find a realtec driver to fix it.

  46. John 61

    Look for CatRoot2 (xp throwback)

    If this is on you PC (W10 home version) your Windows Update has broken at some time in the past. The Fall Creators update completely trashed my AMD machine, and I (to cut a long story short) created a new user profile and copied all the shortcuts/files from the broken profile across to the new one. *Everything* was copied across without reinstalling Windows. I then made sure that stuff was working in the new profile before deleting the old one. I also turned off the "fast boot" option. This took two weeks of testing.

    All the stuff on support websites (including Microsoft) didn't work, as some programs fired up properly (whereas others didn't), the task bar was broken, but after several reboots it would work properly as if nothing happened. Then stuff would start going wrong again. A mish mash of anything I could find helpful actually worked. However, it has been fine since last year.

    The April update has gone through with no problems and appears to be dribbling slowly out of Redmond, and my machine now boots faster. If you're having problems with WU, go here:

    This will give you standalone installer versions and it runs like XP WU did. It is imperative that you match up the KBXXXXXXX with that of those detailed in WU. In my experience this fixes WU as it updates the update catalog. This also worked on my sister's laptop.

  47. jeffdyer

    Last week my recently update Win10 (1803) PC refused to start, despite trying all the various safe mode options, repairing etc.

    I had to resort to rolling back through the last known good settings, fortunately the 1803 update took one from just a few days before, so I went back to that and the PC came up fine.

    Not sure whether the update killed the boot mechanism or not, but if not, having a recent restore point saved my ar$e

  48. wondermouse

    Update is fine, until it isn’t

    I have updated 14 machines to the latest version of Windows. 13 went fine, with no problems. The 14th - an Acer desktop, ended up in a nasty loop where it kept restarting, booted to a black screen, and then rebooted.

    After forcing it to crash to get to system restore, was unable to roll back to previous version. The only option was to reset windows which took me back to 1709 losing all of my installed programs. A second attempt fared no better. Microsoft support for this issue has proved non existant. The workaround is a registry hack to prevent automatic updates, but certainly not ideal.

    So where can i go for support when a Microsoft update borks a PC?

  49. Richy Freeway

    Have got 5 machines in for repair after a borked 1803 update, all of them have Avast. Had a few in last week too.

    Not saying it's Avasts fault, but...

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I really do get the Linux argument and like most distros, especially Ubuntu and Fedora. However until Lightroom and PS have Linux versions I can't switch. I've tried Gimp and while it's okay, it's doesn't replace LR and PS. I've tried Darktable too and it's not a mature enough product (yet).

    There's then all the issues of printer drivers for high-end photo printers and colour matching. So it's not just the photo editing software that needs to be considered, it's the whole workflow.

    Did like Macs, but Apple now make crap hardware with very limited specs, so I'm stuck with Windows. I don't mind paying for productivity software, especially when I'm making money from it, but I can't see any options on Linux that would enable me to move from Windows.

    The sad fact is most photographers aren't brave enough to move off Mac to Windows to get better hardware choices, so getting enough of to move to Linux to warrant the development of pro photo editing tools isn't going to happen any time soon. The tools would have to come first, and that is also very unlikely.

  51. tentimes

    Near catastrophic update!

    I just about got this installed without losing my machine. Twice I tried and twice the computer hung on a restart at "Updating windows 51%". I left it for six hours and nothing happened and I had to pull the power cord to turn it off. After that I had to rollback and repair.

    To get the update to work I had to run the Microsoft Windows Update Repair Tool (downloaded from their website) and then run the update a third time for it to work.

    Huge sigh of relief and glad I know what I am doing or I would have been shafted (like many a poor user out there I am sure).

  52. SpottyOwl

    It worked for me as well....

    Sorry to say that the update process - and every other Windows 10 update I've done - worked fine.

    This has been on a range of machines - 8 year old Dells, 6 month old SSD Fujitsus, Surface laptop, and a very ancient HP laptop.

    Longest it took was about 45 minutes - machines running a variety of software including Office, SQL Server, Visual Studio, mySQL, etc. .

  53. frank1245c

    Not Again?

    Awhile ago when Microsoft was forcing updates from 7 to 10, they updated my computer to Win10 and improved it so much that it didn't work at all. I was forced to switch to Linux just to get my computer working again. It now runs better than it did under Linux than it did with Windows so I never switched back. Now I see that Micro$oft is up to its old games and screwing people up again. FU Micro$oft and your stupid games. Viva Linux!

    1. onefang

      Re: Not Again?

      "updated my computer to Win10 and improved it so much that it didn't work at all. I was forced to switch to Linux"

      I'd call that a very good update.

  54. This post has been deleted by its author

  55. Bezukhov

    My mother's computer updated yesterday. Her only problem was this warning about Drive E: short of space. Simple enough to fix, just open an elevated Command Prompt and remove that drive letter.

  56. Timmy B

    14 PCs in this office - over 50 in the building - over 60 if you include virtuals. Various specs from elderly compact dell desktops to high end ultra-books and everything has updated fine. All running Sophos. Some took a while (longest was just under an hour and a half) but mostly fine.

    I also have 8 Pcs in the house and only one caused any kind of issues. This was a laptop that had some major issues and the motherboard was replaced under warranty and the hard drive was imaged swapped over with an SSD recently so there could have been some kind of serial number check that went wrong.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows Insiders

    Maybe the problem is the people what beta test these releases, aka Windows Insiders, know how to use a computer and would never in a million years use Avast? So it's hardly M$'s fault is it?

    1. Timmy B

      Re: Windows Insiders

      As one of those afore mentioned insiders I agree. I tried it once and not again. It's standard that the other halves workplace and causes no end of trouble. We have Sophos and apart from one issue is fine... but that issue is severe.. it doubled compile times.

    2. Deadly_NZ

      Re: Windows Insiders

      I am Insider preview person I have 2 machines 1 runs Avast with no problems, the other runs the built in security center. Which I find to be better than Avast.

  58. intrigid

    Windows 7

    Have been using Windows 7 with Never10 utility installed for some years now. I feel so sorry for anyone who missed out on the Windows 7 train, and I feel like a bystander watching the nonstop trainwreck of modern operating systems.

  59. Howard Hanek

    Windows Replacement

    I've been running more and more Linux boxes as Windows replacements. I've spent the last couple of years refining the images, making them as useful and efficient as possible and creating the tutorials and help files for users who never saw a Linux box in their lives. The systems do everything they have to do very well and they ARE more stable and user friendly than Windows. I'm ready, but the users aren't and even with all that, the migration will be the users.

  60. SnowCrash

    Bring the hate

    Update 5 machines at home, all running Avast, plus my work machines which don't run Avast. Usual hour for the update to finish and all working happily.

    Obvs I'll switch to Mint or whatever as soon as all the apps I use work as well as they do in Win 10 (I'm not asking for perfection after all).

    I've even made peace with the Win 10 start menu....

  61. largefile

    You folks are comical.

    I just have to laugh at all of the Microsoft haters who congregate here and fantasize about the evils of an update or Microsoft in general. It's your own little echo chamber.

    3 million users were involved in some aspect of beta testing 1803 and now the newer builds you still aren't complaining about. Updating, rolling back and update and pausing updates is pretty easy to accomplish.

    Pausing for 7 days at a time is a no brainer. Update/Security, Advanced, Pause.

    Meanwhile there are a few hundreds of million Windows 10 users and amazingly the majority of the people with problems seem to congregate here.

  62. CPU

    If only MS ...

    If only MS actually warns you before doing the major updates, you know, maybe "please temporarily uninstall your AV Product". So far MS updates has killed my system 3 times, to say I have a robust backup regime would be an understatement! I assume MS update will kill the system at some point and backup accordingly.

    I also find that MS treats restores in a very iffy manner now, and this is recent (2018) not sure if there is some hidden blocks written or something to do with blocking hijack software, but something under the hood has changed and my original method of having a backup SSD with the LNG image (boot from LNG and restore borked disk) no longer works properly, so now I'm reduced to USB boot disk for the restore of borked... oh MS, why do you keep screwing things up?

  63. JDReg529

    Only bad aspect for me is that the Opera browser has become non-functional, as far as I can tell.

    1. largefile

      Opera works fine on Windows 10

      Opera works just fine with every build of Windows 10 including ALL the beta builds. It's been my alternate browser for a few years and when there were EDGE growing pains, Opera is always there for me.

      Version: 53.0.2907.68 - Opera is up to date

      Update stream: Stable

      System: Windows 10 64-bit

      I'm on 1803 build #17134.48 no issues.

  64. Leadsolo

    1803 Build playing dirty

    I had the update install and on reboot got a blue screen with recovery icons of which, not one worked. I was able to get to the command prompt and 'xcopy' all the data files over to a USB HDD. I wasn't using Avast, so that excuse is rubbish. MS later put something on their support site saying there was an issue with some SSD's and something else, neither of which referred to my PC.

    I managed to rebuild the machine, eventually but discovered that the previous build, 1709, had switched off the checkpoint process and deleted old checkpoints. Presumably for my convenience....

    I have now switched my internet connections to 'Metered Connection' which should prevent automatic updates. Hopefully. The 1803 build seems to have been pulled thankfully.

    I now have Outlook and Firefox missing from the list of installed apps, even though they are installed and can be pinned to the start menu icons and task bar...

    Frankly getting a wee bit tired of this and giving serious thought to Apple....another ecosystem that doesn't always play well with others but family and friends seem quite enamoured. Linux...I'll see if I can work my way back around that and what it means in practical terms.

  65. N2


    Diddn't Microsoft state their O/S was never intended for internet use?

  66. -v(o.o)v-

    We were testing the 1803 upgrade on 6 PC out of 150.

    So far 3 PC upgraded without issues, 2 not upgraded yet, and 1 has similar problem. Black screen after login, but no error messages and keys like Win-R do nothing. So we cannot try to process listed on many sites (run setup.exe from installation media).

    Thanks MS... I have pushed back the phased deployment schedule for at least 1 month for the next phase, waiting for June's Patch Tuesday.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      25% failure rate, in your case, isn't very impressive by MS. Can you even get to the rollback-option, with that problem? Safe boot?

  67. Deadly_NZ

    It doesn't lose anything ALL it does is create a new user profile Dunno why but if you go to your users folder ALL you stuff will still be there under the original profile.

  68. Michael Kean

    Avast not the cause. Had it on a new install upgrade from Win7

    Had a second hand laptop to sell, but it didn't have a Win10 license.

    Wiped it and installed Windows 7 x64

    Activated same.

    Installed latest Windows 10 from the Media Creation Tool

    Setup froze twice with black screen, no cursor.

    Eventually booted up to the point where it came up with the familiar desktop folder not accessible.

    Gave up and sold it with Windows 7 instead.

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Avast is the equivalent of a "Microsoft Support Technician" cold call from India

    Avast may have been legitimate five or six years ago but recent "changes" over the years has made it suspect.

    See title.

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