And THIS is how you do it, Apple: Huawei shames Cupertino with under-glass sensor Huawei previously used its Primark brand, Honor, to bring high-priced tech to a much more affordable package. But this time it's using Honor to introduce a feature the industry insisted it wasn't ready for: an under-glass fingerprint sensor. The new Honor 10 – which like the P20s has an optional, removable Notch – also …
Why is nobody pointing out that millions of Huawei mobiles (most of the range including the new p20) are currently crippled worldwide by a Google Play Services update sometime on or after 27 April?
Many apps that use Maps, Barcodes, Payments or even displaying Ads just get an error stating "Update Google Play Services" even tho the phone and services are updated.
Many attempts to contact Huawei have fallen on deaf ears.
People who use Uber, Deliveroo etc (don't forget some people use them as their work tool) simply cannot use them (or they can with a workaround that last for a few hour, and wipes some information from their phone).
Google have acknowledged the issue: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/79405933
If this were an Apple or Samsung error, it would be front page!
Yes, because "update just fine, and install new apps from the store just fine" is the same as Google Play *Services* update breaking apps that rely on Google's mapping framework. Google Maps works just fine, but that framework in any other app - including Android Auto simple map on the handset - is broken for many different Huawei handsets worldwide. Read the link in post 1 to the issue: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/79405933
Clearing your Play Services cache fixes the issue - until the next reboot.
And that's a pain, because you have to reauthorise cards in G Pay etc.
Don't ask me how I know this <sigh>
P9 Plus, A7.0
https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/79405933#comment335
av...@google.com <av...@google.com> #335 May 16, 2018 12:41AM
In collaboration with Huawei, Google engineers have identified the root cause of this issue as an unexpected change to the filesystem permissions. The issue can impact any Android app on a Huawei device which renders a Google map. Our engineers are preparing a new version of Google Play Services which should resolve the problem. It will be targeted to devices running Android 7.0 Nougat, or higher. We will post another update with the status of the rollout.
Thanks for your patience.
Again... there just aren't enough people affected to care.
If literally Huawei phones couldn't run Google Maps, or some popular app that uses them (everything from OKCupid dating apps to games use that interface in the background!), then it would flag rather heavily with everyone who buys an Huawei phone.
It doesn't. So it hasn't. Nobody is saying "your problem doesn't exist". We're saying that it's not as prevalent or as affecting as you seem to think. There are 200+ notes on that bug report. I'd expect THOUSANDS, tens of thousands, if it was actually impacting app developers to the extent you suggest.
It's a niche issue that has happened to affect you and your uses. Nobody else (here or other places) even realised it was a problem.
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That sort of proves the point of the extreme Google dependency that Android phones have to be usable (and evidently now even then they are not), and Google is far from benign. It's a shame nobody has the clout to start a proper, new and actually free OS that is picked up in volume, because it's the volume that matters.
That sort of proves the point of the extreme Google dependency that Android phones have to be usable (and evidently now even then they are not), and Google is far from benign.
Hmmmmmm... Google starts Android. Google maintains, develops, runs Android. And... you complain about an extreme Google dependency? The mind boggles...
You're welcome to downvote this post. You know you want to, despite knowing I'm just pointing out the obvious. Go on. Click that downvote button. Go on. Do it. :-D
Android is open source, and, by default, doesn't actually use Google services much (if at all). I have a Kindle at home. It runs Android but is an Amazon device, so while it is heavily tied in to Amazon's ecosystem, it does not require Google access.
The requirement for Google access come when you want to add things like the Google play store, which most phone manufacturers do. Amazon chose to use their own app store.
It makes things so much simpler, more magical I'd say. When the notch breaks or malfunctions you just remove it and replace it with new one, no need to buy a new phone. More, you can customize the notch to your heart's content, just imagine the possibilities: colors, patterns, material choices; the aesthetic possibilities are endless.
People pay through the nose for the privilege of owning a notched phone, but this... this is above all else, this takes the game to a whole new level. Congratulations Huawei.
Pure genius. Take that, apple!
Who wants an effin notch in the first place?
No one it's just that suppliers bet on it becoming standard so all the screens are being turned out with one. Remember 3D TVs? I hope it's going to be a like that and we'll have largely forgotten them in a couple of years.
Hope Samsung or someone else goes on the offensive about not having a notch as I think there might be mileage in that.
The notch is a compromise since we can't put cameras underneath a display. Eventually it will be figured out (and it will be cooled the first time you see the display go black for a split second where the camera is when you take a picture) I don't see any way you could ever put a camera underneath an LCD display, but it should be possible with an OLED or microLED display.
Probably the next step on this is a "not a notch, instead there are randomly sized holes where the notch would be" that isn't going to be an improvement - will probably look worse in fact. When it becomes possible to do I'm sure some OEMs will go that way just to separate from the crowd a bit.
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"How? There are going to be OLEDs or LEDs in the way. Turning them off won't make them miraculously invisible."
I guess you weren't aware that OLED circuitry is actually invisible? The image itself obviously is visible, but if you look at the panel itself without any of the plastic casing they tend to put them it, it just looks like a plain old piece of glass.
When the notch breaks or malfunctions you just remove it and replace it with new one, no need to buy a new phone.
I'm 99.9999% certain you're being sarcastic here, but just in case you're not...
The notch isn't physically removable, the UI merely renders the notification icons in white with a black background to hide the notch. I picked up the P20 Pro work bought me the other day and that's how it works there. Surprisingly well, I have to add. (Although I'm never going to use an Android phone for anything other than presenting our awesome video tech and testing.)
The range of phones and names that Huawei / Honor have out at any time is just so confusing.
They all look similar but there are vast differences in price with no rhyme nor reason to the feature set on the handsets.
The fact they also bring out a new handset literally every week says it all.
Samsung used to do this and have now cleaned up their act a bit.
So nothing like "Samsung" "Galaxy" then... I don't know how much they cleaned up their act. At least when they started adding an incremental prefix it got a bit clearer then they came out with the "galaxy" "tab" range of tablets and fablets... though drop the galaxy and just use it's real name things can clear up a bit I still have no idea which one of the galaxies is the latest and greatest though today...
Yeah, I don't get what the big deal is about putting it under glass. Lots of phones do that - Apple's are under sapphire in fact.
The trick is putting it underneath the LCD/OLED display, and this phone has not done so. For it to be useful to Apple (or "shame" them) it would also have to be something that 1) works at least as reliably as Touch ID and 2) can be mass manufactured at a scale of 100 million the first year, 200 million the second.
El Reg is hyping something totally meaningless here.
Oh, there's a bit more: economics.
Perhaps the question we should be asking is why aren't we seeing it in more phones?
Good fingerprint readers cost money - a lot more than your standard part. Multiply that extra cost with the expected volume and it becomes a question if users actually care about its quality, and as far as I can tell, they don't care at all. Hence hanging on to the cheaper solutions.
"if users actually care about its quality, and as far as I can tell, they don't care at all."
I don't care about fingerprint sensors at all, regardless of quality or whether they're under the display or not. It doesn't bother me if they're on the phone, but I don't use them.
Mirrored sunglasses don't stop Face ID. They may be mirrored, but they aren't 100% reflective. For some reason the wraparound sunglasses I wear when biking causes more of a problem, I have to type in my password at least half the time. Or it could be the helmet, I suppose.
I read the article because Register put Apple in the headline. But this really has nothing to do with Apple.
So what is Register saying, that if anyone else in the world innovates, it must be Apple's fault for having not done that? That would seem a compliment to Apple as being the biggest innovator, and others shouldn't dare to do anything.
Or is it just the usual general spray at Apple that Register has? So anytime a competitor does something Apple does not have (or do), Apple is shamed for not having thought of it, or not doing it?
Most Chinese phones have cheap radios that only work on one or two carriers. The Honor View10 for the US only supports a few LTE bands (2, 4, 5, 7, 12, 17). It's designed to work reasonably well with AT&T and T-Mobile now but it will get slower as bands are traded and moved around. It won't be any good for traveling or switching to other carriers. That means fewer of these phones will be repaired once the batteries are worn out.
So when the glass screen inevitably cracks, the fingerprint sensor will probably lock you out of your phone. Definitely one for the flower children.
Except that in the case of my phone, if the fingerprint sensor misreads the print and doesn't unlock, I'm presented with a keypad to enter my unlock code. So yes you may, well probably will, lose the ability to unlock using a fingerprint, you shouldn't be locked out of the phone.
Errr, unless the manufacturer uses an incredibly stupid implementation. Ah well...
There are those that say biometrics are not safe because, while you can always change your password, you cannot change your fingerprints, retina, or facial features. In other words if the possibility exists to duplicate your biometric identity you can never get it back. It's a little like not only using the same password for several sites but also not being allowed to change the password once it is set.
That said I have a mobile phone with a fingerprint scanner on the unlock button and it is the simplest phone I've used ever.
The Sony solution seemed the best possible because putting the sensor on the side power button meant that there's no real chance of your accidentally leaving a nice oily fingerprint that worked right on the sensor button.
Sadly they've now gone the way of everybody else.
Sure you can! It's really easy. That's what scar tissue is for. Just juggle a chainsaw. Or install some new plumbing under the kitchen sink. Or build a PC in a cheap chassis. And then there's liquid nitrogen. Or playing with fire. Did you remember to unplug your soldering iron? Nope. New fingerprint!
"In other words if the possibility exists to duplicate your biometric identity you can never get it back."
This is a problem, and it's particularly bad when it comes to fingerprints because it's really easy to lift someone's print and use it to spoof fingerprint sensors.
I'm happy with my €330 Honor 9 but there is lots of bloatware and updates are not as rapid as I'd like. A stock Android is probably an unobtainable dream for phones like this which need to stand out from the crowd with "useful" features like a 3D moving lock screen.
I predict Apple will drop its iphone prices soon, like they did with the ipad to maintain market share.
Having recently gotten an iphone x I prefer face ID. Its generally far more reliable than the finger print sensor which is always a pain with wet hands. Does nice things like face ID for password retrieval in safari. As for the notch most apps are aware of it and work around it intelligently. Like youtube for instance by default stops videos at the notch so you lose nothing or if you want you can zoom in and lose the bit under the notch. At this point after having used face ID I'd consider moving back to finger print sensor to be a backwards step.
How does FaceID stand up when you are wearing... say a Crash Helmet or any other protective headgear?
I tried an iPhone X while wearing a bicycle helmet. Failed.
Removing a glove for TouchID is far better when it comes to 'Ease of Use'.
Facial ID as a way of getting into a phone is not the best solution for everyone.
Those flagships are sold to photographers but in reality only vanity Instagrammers will be really happy with the results
No professional photographer at anything above the level of "i've got a DSLR and I could take photos at your wedding, therefore i'm a professional wedding photographer" will be using a smartphone in any case.
Both of the professional photographers that I have met at events carry several different DSLR's, plus a carryall of expensive additional extras such as lenses, stands, remote trigger flashes, filters and things that I don't recognise despite quite a good knowledge of photography which had the look of costing considerably more than a new car.
"it's as good as a DSLR!" though is probably good marketing for the people who only take photos for facebook and instagram though...
Yeah, I talked to some Northern-Lights-Tours-Guides recently (well.... last winter) and one of them was a photographer. He was actually quite impressed what people can do today with their mobes when out watching the aurora. He is indeed carrying a ton of stuff, and his pictures are better, sure, but he also spent a lot more on the equipment...
Yep. I don't think that realistically smartphones will ever be able to replace real cameras as there are fundamental limits to what can be achieved with a tiny fixed lens but they will undoubtedly be in a position to take the market for the really low end compact style cameras within a few years.
When that happens it'll leave the entry point for "real" cameras as being the bridge style DSLR, which is so far superior to what any mobile will ever be able to achieve as a result of having a zoomable lens larger than the mobile that they'll probably stay around forever, with "real" DSLR's with removable lenses etc reserved for professionals.
Also note that if your country gets into a trade war with China and/or its intelligence agency has qualms about security in relation to Huawei, your China-purchased phone may stop functioning as a phone altogether when local mobile carriers are prohibited from providing signals to it. I still don't fully believe this tinfoil hat conclusion, but having investigated several times with my carrier, using different SIM cards and different handsets, and read a bit of Chinese news, it does unfortunately fit the facts.
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