Sounds familiar
unscrupulous commercial operation - rumours abound that Hubbard set up Scientology as a religion so it would be tax-free, while members must pay part of their income to the church
Sounds awfully familiar.
Also, fuck religion.
The Church of Scientology, founded by sci-fi author L Ron Hubbard, is set to start broadcasting its own TV programmes tonight. The Scientology Network is due to start broadcasting on Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and the Apple and Android app stores at 8pm Eastern time (or midnight for UK viewers). The network’s website and Twitter …
Sounds not dissimilar to the likes of other institutes searching to emulate and become Institutions, with two doggedly unpopular recent examples being .... a Tony Blair Institute with Bill and Hillary Clinton Foundations
Some years ago there was a strong meme in the SF community that the legendary White Hart pub meetings of the late 40s and early 50s had a hand in this: Ken Bulmer and Arthur Clarke, after several pints, decided that the way to make a lot of money was to found a fake religion. Elron was listening, and relatively sober.
and yet, it seems that Elron actually BELIEVED his own B.S. - or else he was an excellent actor.
Also worth pointing out, why do SO many celebs fall for this obvious bullcrap? are they THAT desperate for meaning to their otherwise vacuous lives that they MUST fill it with *THAT* ???
Also worth pointing out, why do SO many celebs fall for this obvious bullcrap? are they THAT desperate for meaning to their otherwise vacuous lives that they MUST fill it with *THAT* ???
I would guess that they usually get introduced to the cult entirely legitimate religion by a friend who is already in the fold. The introduction includes an "auditing" session, wherein they are asked increasingly personal questions. After that, they simply need to be reminded about the recording of embarrassing and/or incriminating things which they've admitted to, whereupon they're "encouraged" to undertake more auditing. Over the years, I imagine the cult entirely legitimate religion are able to gather quite the collection of ruinous confessions from the celeb.
@bombastic bob
"Also worth pointing out, why do SO many celebs fall for this obvious bullcrap?"
I think that one factor is that the experience 'celebs' have in Scientology is vastly different to the experience the common folk have.
At the simplest level, the expenses just isn't ruinous for the high-paid celebs as it can and does become for 'normal' people. Their public lives mean they don't work for the Church the same way some of the more abused members do and they aren't as reliant on the church for their sense of identity or self worth.
In other words, the power structure is very different.
In an interview, Leah Remini explained that celebrities in Scientology are lionised (my word, paraphrasing) and have servants drawn from the rank and file. So, while 'ordinary' Scientology members have little to no power over even their own lives, celebrities of sufficient stature are given power over those of others.
Whatever the specifics, the very existence of a Scientology 'Celebrity Centres' is sufficient indication of the differing experiences that can be had.
> why do SO many celebs fall for this obvious bullcrap?
Because they are _paid_. It is a sponsorship deal just like dozens of commercial products.
The primary reason that victims fall for Scientology is that they are failures and this cult shows them that their failure is NOT THEIR FAULT. It is the fault of 'invisible Thetans' and this can be 'cleared' (along with their bank account). 'Sponsoring' successful celebrities and inventing stories that they were failures until they found Scientology is great marketing.
It is _all_ about the money.
> it seems that Elron actually BELIEVED his own B.S.
I don't know why you would think that. If the story that Dianetics was based on a book that he found is true, and it is certainly true that the rest of Scientology is based on his crap SciFi, then what he believed was that lots of money and teenage girls were his reward.
@AC
"How would you define 'fake'?"
For me, I think a key indicator is going from zero foundational material to full-blown, registered and recruiting religion in the space of one person's lifetime.
The closest 'mainstream' comparison is Mormonism but even that differs sharply because, first, it built upon Christian foundations and, second, it grew far more organically.
The dicta and dogmata of Scientology were fabricated out of whole cloth largely by one person. They were not the accretion and evolution of tribal wisdoms and beliefs or appropriated religions; they were not the results of gradual morphing via a series of 'Chinese whispers' or local practices and mythologies that took on authoritative tones when collected and codified.
It has been commented that the only difference between accepted religions and 'cults' is time. While perhaps accurate, it is overly simplistic as the addition of time changes a great deal and a religion that has survived for centuries must undergo stresses and changes that a 'religion' that sprang up last week has not been subjected to. Just as important, those practicing and passing-on the religion now are removed from the source and beginnings and so there is, in a way, less culpability on their part. They may have neglected to fully analyse and dissect the religion with a ruthlessly critical and rational methodology but that is less of a failing than those who jump on board something that only came into existence within living memory.
The whole 'mad, bad or god' option breakdown is fitting when dealing with someone like L. Ron. He was either genuinely inspired and tapped into something real or he didn't. If he didn't, he was either out of his tree or deliberately scammed people. Of course, it's possible he was both of the latter, at different stages: first cynically scamming and then addled and believing his own stories.
The point is that the process through the centuries actually changes the thing that makes the trip so, while one might contend (and I, personally, do) that all religions - small and large - have no metaphysical truth behind them, that doesn't make them all 'fake', per se.
On the whole, and to a point yes.... But, we had best find a replacement for it. before some other "Religion" profound for its "peacfullness" decides to litter another Street Fair with dead corpses again. So on the one hand... Yeah fork religion! On the other is the question of our cultural identity. Not perticually something I wish to see die. 'cause of a few really anoying holly rollers.
The network’s website and Twitter channels both have ominous-looking countdowns to the big launch, which is timed to coincide with the day Hubbard was born, 13 March.
Well if they timed it to coincide with his death it'd probably cause controversy amongst the faithful :)
"Scientology leaders announced that his body had become an impediment to his work and that he had decided to "drop his body" to continue his research on another planet,[331] having "learned how to do it without a body""
Uh huh
Did they say how he moves the pen without a body?
Sadly the Wikipedia article doesn't elucidate and I'm not interested in following the footnote link on an article about the crackpot leader of a crackpot/evil religious organisation :)
I'll admit to reading (and enjoying(*)) Battlefield Earth 30 years ago - bought with a £5 gift voucher for good school attendance - but I am not an advocate for Scientology. I wouldn't be an advocate for any religious organisation although if pushed I could be persuaded to retaliate by rejoining Humanists UK aka BHA.
(*)The first half was good fun. The second half got bogged down in minutiae (how to prevent reverse engineering and how a gold-standard banking system works).
What do you mean? Of course vegetables feel pain.
I've heard the screams of the vegetables,
Watching their skins being peeled.
Grated and chopped without mercy...
How do you think that feels?
Carrot juice constitutes murder.
Greenhouses prison for slaves!
It's time to stop all this gardening,
lets call a spade a spade!
When I was 4 years old I distinctly remember having a dream in which my sister and I were eaten by a lion and got turned into poo. Anthromorphic poo. I suppose vegetables feeil pain when we turn THEM into poo. So I should be a 100% carnivore [at least the animals are DEAD].
So how can I turn _THIS_ into a religion so _I_ can be a gozillionaire with an infinite number of women to have sex with at my command, ordering people around and acting like an evil dictator all the time, muahahahahaha!
[it'd be a bit like being the 'dear leader' of North Korea]
"[at least the animals are DEAD]."
That's true. But how do you know when a strawberry is dead?
“Well,” said the animal, “I know many vegetables that are clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am.”
The World would be a much better, and happier place if this were to ever come 'round to passing. But, this is my favorite way to troll those anoying wretched vegetarians.
"Call any vegetable. And the chances are good. That a vegetable will respond to you."
I would pray to the spirit of Frank Zappa if I didn't think such action was only slightly less pointless* than praying to one of the gods we have created.
*Frank actually existed, so I conclude there is more chance of a reply.
2 weeks ago I kept thinking of Frank Zappa. Every time I checked the Met Office app on my phone and saw the message: "Warning Yellow Snow".
I'm afraid this provided me childish amusement for the whole week. I assume I'll grow up eventually. Not much sign of it yet though...
"Jehovah's Witnesses are nearly as bad. In fact all cults operate this way"
No. Only Scientology employs a gaggle of lawyers to sue opponents into submission. And Islam is the only sect which encourages followers to behead non-believers ("So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them": Koran 47:4).
Um...
Luke 19:27 - -Kill the non believers
1 Samuel 15:2-3 -- kill the non-believers, their children, and their cows.
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 -- stone the non believers
Hosea 13:16 -- rip open pregnant women, nice.
Exodus 31:15 -- Kill anyone working on Sunday
Zechariah 13:3 -- Kill false prophets (job to be performed by the prophet's parents)
2 Kings 2:23-24 -- Don't make fun of bald people, or a bear will kill you and 41 of your friends.
Re: Um...
All but one of those quotes are from the Old Testament, the violence of which was repudiated in the New Testament. The Old Testament is largely the same thing as the Torah and Muslims hold parts of the Old Testament to be sacred. And the first was from a story that Jesus told, so you took it out of context.
Not to mention that Christians don't go around beheading people or killing former believers. Except for the recent situation in the Balkans, which is complicated by the history of the Ottoman Empire, Christians largely stopped killing others around 1700.
You won't look at the link because your mind is closed, but the below link contains 109 quotes from the Koran exhorting Muslims to violence.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
@AC sucked into the current war on terror islam is bad terror TERROR TERROR PEADOS!!! fear mongering by the folks that brought you Agent Orange and the F-35.
I will point out that there are extremists in *all* religions, and many of them are active in many religions right now, if one pays attention to world news
The 'old testaments' are the link that tie dozens of variations of religions together and turn them into disasters. Wafting the 'new testaments' about and calling them the repudiation of the old testaments indicates that you are a devout of one or another christian church, and have not spent the time to read them, since there are equally vile segments in the new testaments.
"Not to mention that Christians don't go around beheading people or killing former believers. "
ummmm...
Northern Ireland?
Eric Rudolph in the US?
Central African Republic?
Note that I'm not trying to deny that any Islamic-fundamentalist based violence exists (but you're asking us to believe that Christian violance. Nor am I trying to argue that the verses need to be taken at face value (but we're supposed to take Koran readings at face value).
Here's a curve ball for your melon: which US president said the following quote?
"I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself."
WRONG.
Go back and relearn what a sect is.
It is not because some misguided islamic extremists have done some YouTube beheading that you should lump all followers of Islam in the same boat.
Scientology is a sect. Jehova's Witnesses is a sect. Any pseudo-religion that attempts to take your money and estrange you from your family is a sect. Any "religion" whose teachings you have to pay to learn is definitely a sect and something to be avoided.
Islam is most definitely NOT a sect. Islam, Judaism and Christianism all hold to the Old Testament. They have that in common.
Now if you want to take only the extremist side of things, you don't need to go as far as Islam. Just visit your nearest abortion clinic and watch the so-called Christians screaming bloody murder threats at the people working there.
"Go back and relearn what a sect is"
The Free Dictionary defines sect as "a religious group regarded as extreme or heretical," including both Shia and Sunni under the category of sect. Any group which believes that it has the right to kill non-believers, kill former believers, kill people who insult their religion, and enslave believers of other religions is extreme.
According to Pew Research, the percentage of Muslims who favor making sharia, i.e. Islamic law, the law of the land is 40% in Palestinian territories, 74% in Egypt, 99% in Afghanistan, 71% in Jordan, 12% in Turkey, 91% in Iraq, and 20% in Kosovo.
The percentage of Muslims who believe that sharia should apply to both Muslims and non-Muslims is 44% in Palestinian territories, 74% in Egypt, 61% in Afghanistan, 58% in Jordan, 43% in Turkey, 38% in Iraq, and 31% in Kosovo.
The percentage of Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified to defend Islam is 40% in Palestinian territories, 29% in Egypt, 39% in Afghanistan, 15% in Jordan, 15% in Turkey, 7% in Iraq, and 11% in Kosovo.
In other words, it's definitely NOT only a small percentage of Muslims who hold extreme views.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/#should-sharia-apply-to-all-citizens
'WRONG.
Go back and relearn what a sect is.'
sect: a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
Sooo, taking Judaism as the root religion here (we won't delve into the mire that is proto-Judaism), Christianity is a Judaic sect, the notable bones of contention being that Judaism rejects the Christ character being the Judaic Messiah and as to that whole meshuge 'son of God' business...
Now Islam, that's funnier, as they accept that the character known as Christ is one of their prophets, and only a prophet, you might be tempted to regard them as a Christian sect, but as they also regard the Christ character as the Judaic Messiah minus all that 'Son of God' nonsense the Christians attach to that word, then they could be more properly regarded as a Judaic sect.
You almost got there when you wrote 'Islam, Judaism and Christianism all hold to the Old Testament. They have that in common.', more or less stated there that Islam and Christianity are Judaic sects as the Old Testament stuff is theirs.
A sect doesn't just have to be a small bunch of 'relidges'
Scientology is a sect..
Ah, I see, no, the word you're apparently looking for here is cult, their 'mythos' is a somewhat unique (and heavily copyrighted and trademarked..) mishmash of 'Golden Age' pulp SF, cod psychology and fin de siècle occultism, you'd have to stretch the definition of sect pretty far to even begin to make the Sciloons an offshoot of the O.T.O. or any other group that LRH may (or may not) have infiltrated/been a member of.
'The background of the Koran and associated fiction was a direct rip-off of early Christianity with a bit of spicing up to suit. e.g. 4 wives allowed, etc.'
Aye, but the problem is do you then treat Islam then as a breakaway Christian sect (which, I've been told by a Muslim friend, is a rather good way to start an argument/holy war depending on how tolerant the Muslim is you posit this to) or as just another contemporary-to-what-became-Christianity Judaic sect which segued into Islam with Mohammed at the helm, one which quite happily accepted the whole Judaic Messiah bit about the character known as Jesus, but balked on the whole 'Avatar of Yahweh' thing? (People's Front of Judea as opposed to Judean People's Front..)
Re the 4 wives, historically Judaism has always been a bit weird on polygamy, it wasn't totally proscribed as far as I can remember (unlike polyandry, which was) but was permitted for a whole bunch of specific reasons, and from what I can remember Christianity went down the monogamy road early on when it became Romanised (as the Romans were on the whole monogamous)..though ISTR there was some (belatedly) continued fun about the subject after the Reformation amongst the Protestant churches...
what primarily defines a cult has several aspects to it:
a) hierarchical authoritarian leadership, wielding control over your personal life
b) punishment for non-compliance/rebellion
c) manipulation (emotional or other types of coercion)
These things alone (unfortunately) aren't necessarily a guarantee that it's a cult, but if you see all three in an organization, it's probably time to leave. If nothing else, it's a recipe for abuse.
Also, you have to lie down to be a doormat. Just sayin'
I came to the conclusion long ago that a number of people get involved in a church or religion so that they can have control over other people's lives, and there's enough people WANTING others to control them, that they have plenty of willing victims showing up. Both sides of this (in my opinion) represent some kind of psycnological disorder, and I wouldn't even begin to guess how to cure that. I doubt therapy would be enough. Problems like _THAT_ are most likely too deep.
That, of course, does not in any way impugn that those others NOT in the above 2 categories have something wrong with them for attending a church or being part of a religion. Most likely they're just regular people who happen to be religious, like maybe half of the world's population...
/me thinks: party in hell, I'll bring the liquor. it beats hot cocoa and s'mores
Have just read "Strange Angel" by George Pendle; it's a biography of Jack Parsons who was a pioneering rocket experimenter in the 30s and 40s. As well as working to develop JATO for the US Army he was a follower of Aleister Crowley the 'magician' and cult founder. Hubbard is one of the interesting people he met in Pasadena. According to the book, Hubbard pinched Parson's girlfriend and $20k.
" The Scientology Network is due to start broadcasting on Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and the Apple and Android app stores"
Well, that's a relief then. They certain won't reach any gullible fools who are willing to part with their money for crap by broadcasting on THOSE platforms!
It'll probably be on Freeview before long, what whith there already apparently being space in the limited bandwidth for cheesy unbelievangelical cash hungry preacher channels, jewelery tat emporiums, RT, etc.........
Except it's STREAMING. Broadcast is quite a different thing, only using identical data for everyone and rather rare outside a LAN. WiFi has to do it by duplicating the UDP stream for each client unless some newer version has added a true broadcast mode. Also with Broadcast there is only linear scheduling and everyone has same data at the same time (+/- distribution latency).
LTE's broadcast mode is really a customised DTT so as to sell Scheduled Broadcast PayTV if Ofcom manages to sell off all terrestrial TV spectrum. Qualcomm did a Broadcast trial for Mobile in UK. Nokia long ago had a handset with DVB-h and there were some handsets in Germany with DVB-t, but neither mobile operators, regulators or phone makers can get revenue from DVB-T in a phone.
Time for my favourite New York Times review! Written in May 2000:
"It may be a bit early to make such judgements, but ''Battlefield Earth'' may well turn out to be the worst movie of this century."
http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9C05EEDF173BF931A25756C0A9669C8B63
We're 18 years in now and his prediction seems to be holding up pretty well...
"It may be a bit early to make such judgements, but ''Battlefield Earth'' may well turn out to be the worst movie of this century." ..... We're 18 years in now and his prediction seems to be holding up pretty well... .... AC
A Series of Blockbusting Blockbuster Remakes with Straplines Engaged to Mobilise the English Language and Send IT into Battles is more than just an HyperRadioProACTive IT AI Field on Earth, for such also Commands and Controls Almighty Forces with Superb Sublimely Secret Sources in Cyber Spaces and every Nook and Cranny of Virtual Places too.
From Novel Advanced IntelAIgents, there is No Known or Available Hiding Place. Not Anywhere Ever.
Sometime about 1983 or so, I was hanging about downtown with a group of mates when we were approached by a group of attractive, chesty young ladies.
We did what any young man would do and followed them to their office, where the scam was soon revealed. Disappointment ensued, but we had learned a lesson.
Curiously, last year, (34 year later maybe?) an envelope arrived at my house containing a brochure on time keeping and two letters written in Chinese on Scientology letterhead which raised a couple of questions.
First of all, my surname might be construed as Chinese, but isn't. I asked a Chinese colleague if he could tell me what the letters said, but he seemed to think they were either written by a small child or someone who was learning Chinese.
Second question: 34 years later I have moved house lots of times, how did they track me down? Also, why?
Weird.
'Second question: 34 years later I have moved house lots of times, how did they track me down?'
Your obviously nasty engrams man, It would not surprise me that they've developed an e-meter equipped version of the fabled TV detector van...
It's Audit time boyo...do not resist, you've had 34 years to save up the thousands of £$€ required of thee¹, you know Xenu does not want you to be clear..so become OT8! (only $277,010, give or take...and boy, do the Co$ know how to take)
¹ Serious point, they've the infrastructure to find out exactly how much you're worth..no profit in trying to milk a dry cow after all.
It took me many years to shake the bastards off after I was stupid enough to agree to read a copy of Dianetics handed to me by someone I'd always thought of as a friend. That he then charged me for the book should have given me pause but I was so taken aback I actually paid him.
They kept sending me letters asking me my thoughts on the book. I think they eventually gave up after I told them that, though it made lousy toilet paper, I'd finally managed to finish it without reading a word.
It was alleged, probably by Heinlen, that the book 'Dianetics' which started Scientology, was plagiarized by Elron. He had found a copy of a book in a 2nd hand shop in Paris, this had been written by a frenchman in the early 1930s and had been self published with a print run of just a 100 or so, most of which hadn't sold. Elron's Dianetics is primarily a translation of that.
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Some people think it funny but it's really rather runny.
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Tom Cruise knows it's there cuz he checked his underwear...
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Dianetics Uhh Uh
No Pain No Strain Flush those Thetans Down the Drain
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Dianetics Uhh Uh
Had never seen Battlefield Earth but after looking at a couple of hilarious reviews on YouTube I now feel strangely compelled to watch it.
Am disappointed that the new channel won’t be available on Freeview so I could see what other shite that bunch of Scientology scammers can turn out.
Perhaps a programme staring John Travolta, Tom Cruise ( on Battlefield Earth stilts) and that creepy eyed Kirsty Alley.
It seems that a really bad movie won’t kill off real talking, Forest Whitaker seems to have got over it as did Bradley Cooper for All about Steve (which is currently my worst movie)
After various experiments with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like, I have discovered that a polite "No thank you" is the safest option. It doesn't leave much conversational entry.
But should I find myself in a room with a Scientologist I may feel the strong temptation go go and get a vacuum cleaner and tell them it's for hoovering up the Thetans as they fall off.
'After various experiments with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like, I have discovered that a polite "No thank you" is the safest option. It doesn't leave much conversational entry.'
My favourite tactic is to turn my head away from the door, and shout to some one in the other room "The virgins are here, we can start the Satanic Mass now!".
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