Just as long as it also feels ok to type on. I can generally manage to avoid throwing cups of coffee over my MacBook, but I HATE typing on rubbery keyboards.
Good news: Apple designs a notebook keyboard that doesn't suck
An Apple patent application has surfaced that should give hope to frustrated MacBook owners everywhere. The Cupertino-based speaker vendor appears as the applicant on a US patent application published this week for a new keyboard design that is said to be resistant to liquids, dust, and crumbs. Titled "Ingress Prevention for …
COMMENTS
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Saturday 10th March 2018 21:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
>>> On the other hand have you tried typing on their current MacBook pro keyboard? It's like trying to type using mouse buttons. It's maddening.
Yeah, I love my old(ish) MacBook Pro and Air keyboards, but I've tried the new ones in store and been convinced there's a difference (ie, they're not as good).
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Monday 12th March 2018 08:27 GMT BebopWeBop
I know it shows my age, but even as a <ac user (personal/office machine) I still maintain that you can’t beat the old IBM ‘click click click’ keyboard - lifetime (provided you can finesse the interfaces) and I have four of them on different machines at the moment (the cluster is mainly managed from a Mac)
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Saturday 10th March 2018 22:09 GMT Lee D
Re: Doesn't suck, but it might blow
You mean... a gasket like lots of similar things have because otherwise you're pushing against an hermetically sealed unit with pressurised air in it?
Everyone else had the brains to make the air go out the bottom of the keyboard, though. Because a tiny hole which squirts air every time you hit a key is going to do precisely nothing but blow the dirt around the keyboard rather than blow it away. And anything vaguely sticky is going to gum it up. And once it's gummed up, where does the air go when you hit a key? The place every other keyboard sends it.
It's trying to add novelty to something that people make millions of that work just fine every day, so that you can charge a fortune for it, and stop spare parts being made.
You want a fancy keyboard? Do that thing that new laptops do where the "webcam" is really a key that pops up and faces you when you press it and blinds itself when you press it back in (ala the headlights on sports cars, catseyes, etc.). That is infinitely more useful to me than any kind of new untested type of keyboard layer which stops me having to go "PFFFttt" about once a year or so and solving the problem they describe.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 17:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Revolutionary
"We can't be bothered to make or sell an ingress-proof keyboard, nor to do the necessary R&D to turn this into a working product. However if anybody ever does, we want to be able to squeeze them dry, because WE WROTE IT DOWN FIRST"
(To me, the second diagram looks just like a membrane keyboard, with a hard keytop attached)
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Sunday 11th March 2018 02:31 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Revolutionary
"However if anybody ever does, we want to be able to squeeze them dry, because WE WROTE IT DOWN FIRST"
It really is about time that patents were invalidated after a relatively short time unless the holder is able to demonstrated either a product, a prototype or evidence they are working on it in a realistic fashion. No one should be allowed to hold unused speculative patents purely on the basis that someone else might want to actually build the things bit then have to pay licence fees to some troll.
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Sunday 11th March 2018 14:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Prior art
Rubber keyboard covers are still available but when the fast food chain I do IT for used them even on basic Keytronic's and Logitech keyboards they were stupendously expensive. Each cover fitted well only on the specific keyboard model. And when the covers got dirty they were hard to clean because of the nooks and crannies within it. And every once in a while the keyboard manufacturers moved the keys ever so slightly and hopefully new covers would be available...
Some 15 years ago those restaurants started to roll basic kitchen cellophane over the keyboard and replacing it as necessary. Cellophane of course won't work with laptops that well...
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Monday 12th March 2018 14:42 GMT GruntyMcPugh
Re: Prior art
"Rubber keyboard covers"
My mate's sister used to work in a pub, and as luck would have it, it was the heavy metal / biker bar me and he used to drink in. Anywho, one day we're propping up the bar, and some sales guy (oh, this was like, 30+ years ago) enters, opens a suitcase, and tries to sell her various products, one of which was a rubber keyboard cover 'to stop people from catching AIDS'.
So I piped up 'How is that suppose to work' and he whipped it out, popped it on the till, and says 'Look, you aren't touching the keys anymore so you can't transfer the AIDS germs.' I laughed out loud, called him a dumb twat, and pointed out that it doesn't matter that you aren't touching the keys, if everyone is touching the same rubber cover. Clearly he wasn't very bright because this was genuinely a lightbulb moment for him, the poor sap had actually believed in the product. Not that keyboards were the method of transfer for HIV anyway, but he ran off before I got to explain that.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 21:47 GMT MrT
I agree - very easy to use. Although at the time I had one of the old all-white Mac laptops my son was about 2 and loved the electric tingle that he got putting the power lead in his mouth. Turns out the MagSafe connector was not rust-proof, which might not have been something high on the spec sheet when it was designed...!
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Saturday 10th March 2018 12:44 GMT LeedsMonkey
Or just make a proper keyboard and stop making everything so thin...
All this nonsense has started because the keyboard is just too thin. It's an absolute pile of shite to type on, but why cares if it looks cool eh? I waited for a replacemnt for my 2012 rMBP and when the replacement was announced I just bought a ThinkPad. Limited to 16GB RAM, only 3 useable ports (need one for the charger) a dreadful keyboard and that crappy touch bar, the current MBP would cost me around £4k. Plus another £200+ in dongles! No thanks Apple.
Thankfully Lenovo have stopped trying to be Apple, at least with their ThinkPads anyway. I wish more manufacturers would do this - realise the strengths in their own products and build on that. This would be even better if Lenovo to moved away from the chicklet style keyboards and back to the ones they had in the 90's. Yes they were chunky, but they were a joy to type on.
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Sunday 11th March 2018 11:46 GMT onefang
Re: Or just make a proper keyboard and stop making everything so thin...
"Typing? On a *computer*? How terribly 1990's, darlings!"
I've been typing on computers since the '70s. I'm sure someone here has been doing it for longer. There was even an Apple computer with a keyboard that long ago.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 14:54 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Or just make a proper keyboard and stop making everything so thin...
The 2012 rMBP only has 2 usable ports then, unless you count the thunderbolt 1 ports, but given the lack of peripherals for that you can’t really.
The 2016/2017 have 4 usable ports. If I need power I’m probably at a desk, which then has a monitor plugged in which also provides power, or a dock/hub which also provides power, or an eGPU which also provides power, or an external drive array which also provides power.... If I’m not at a desk chances are there is no external power source available or I would be ok on battery anyway, and highly unlikely to be plugging in that many peripherals.
Keyboard is different, not bad, once used to it faster to type on. Touch Bar? No idea how anyone accidentally touches it when typing, doesn’t cause any problems for me and provides some nice shortcuts in various applications.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 15:38 GMT Sgt_Oddball
Re: Or just make a proper keyboard and stop making everything so thin...
I've got a 2015 rMBP and I'll stick to using proper keyboards for the foreseeable future (for the record I use it 95% of the time on a desk mainly with ja 15 year old full size proper keyed Apple keyboard. Which now will need an adapter to work on newer machines. Because reasons...)
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Saturday 10th March 2018 18:57 GMT fidodogbreath
Re: Or just make a proper keyboard and stop making everything so thin...
I waited eagerly for the new MBPs to come out as well. Fortunately, I went to Best Buy and tried typing on the "butterfly" keyboard before ordering. What a disappointment. I couldn't imagine why anyone would drop that much cash on a machine with such a crap keyboard.
I despise Windows 10, so ended up getting a refurb 2015 i7 MBP instead. Quite a bit cheaper than the new ones, and the slight step-down in power isn't an issue for my application. The keyboard is great; I make way fewer typing mistake on the MBP than I did on the Lenovo that it replaced.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 13:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: PSA Tip
That's some sound advice, I'm sure there is literally no one on the planet that doesn't know that.
Here's the kicker, the reason people are tuned to sugar is because it is in nearly everything, you are brought up on it, you class it as a treat and a reward. Then you are told to cut out fats to lose weight.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 18:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: PSA Tip
But don't forget your brain is so fucked with sugar by rewiring itself, any attempt to keep away is like trying to breathe without oxygen. Little mousey brain feels like it's getting punished since you took away its reward.
Yes, I'm one of those with a little rewired mousey brain who finds it hard to keep away.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 13:22 GMT Milton
And the patentable new idea is ...
And the patentable new idea is ... nowhere to be seen: amazing!
For at least 147 years inventors have solved the "ingress of unwanted shyte" problem by putting gaskets, rubbers, membranes, boots, skirts and whatever other flexible enclosures come to mind, around delicate things that work best when not impeded by Straying Crappe. This has included parts of steam engines, printing presses, guns, pacemakers, sewing machines, almost every part of an automobile, submarines, dildoes, computers, vacuum cleaners, battlefield radios, blurping vats, headphones, centrifuges, children's toys, calculators, greenhouse instrumentation, turbines, cameras, televisions, window frames, lighthouses, ruggedised thises and thats, spaceships, jumbo jets, racing yachts, wristwatches, lawn sprinklers and pressure cookers ... and a list far too long for anyone here to want to read.
Now some chancer at Apple has applied the notion to a keyboard, adding zero value in terms of thinking, innovation, function or implementation, and some supreme, astounding fathead of a patent examiner has actually said "Yeah, that's new"? Did the incredibly clever, Einstein-level invention of the Rounded Corner™ give someone ideas?
I keep hearing that the US is fixing its ludicrously error-prone, frankly laughably inept and unfit-for-purpose patent system ... and seeing zero evidence that this is in any way true.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 14:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: And the patentable new idea is ...
Milton,
Don't hold back .... tell us what you really feel !!! :) :)
Agree with your 'Rant' totally including the pseudo-Old English 'Crappe' :)
It appears that Apple has brainwashed the USPO to react to the 'Apple' name and NOT the actual patent.
Wealth & influence is the only thing that matters in the US of A now.
Anything is allowed if you can back it up with Money !!!
Politics does not matter as at the end of the day the 'people that have' simply 'buy' the results they want from either of the main parties.
Voters are there to pretend that they have a Democracy but the same core groups decide the policies & direction for the country.
Trump is a temporary blip that will be 'Corrected' in due course, and will be a footnote in History !!!
But will be the 'Bestest' footnote there has ever been, as he will tell us. !!! :) ;)
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Saturday 10th March 2018 21:05 GMT shedied
Re: And the patentable new idea is ...
The US patent office 'just works'...if your company name is Apple. So it must be fine for everyone, then.
Really, I prefer the IBM solution: holes so coffee spills will simply drain the scaldingly hot liquid through to your nether regions. Have crumbs? Why fix the keyboard, when it's built bulletproof tough that a 2.5 horsepower vacuum can suck all those crumbs and chicken wing bones too that have been lodged in there even way before lenovo wet-dreamed of owning the Thinkpad brand.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 20:26 GMT JeffyPoooh
It's just a simple laptop keyboard, right?
Order a brand new identical replacement keyboard off eBay for $35, free shipping. Then, once it arrives, it takes just a few minutes with a simple screwdriver to swap it in, right? Budda boom, budda bing, done.
Toss the old one in the junk bin in case new keycaps are ever required.
What could possibly be wrong with this approach?
Oh, yeah. Apple. I forgot. Sorry.
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Sunday 11th March 2018 01:21 GMT tom dial
Re: It's just a simple laptop keyboard, right?
My last (HP dv6) keyboard, from which I now type, cost under $9, including delivery that took about 4 days. It's not and IBM PC or Telex 3270 keyboard, but except for the crappy layout that puts the "calculator" key where the left control key belongs, it's decent, with definite touch feedback but no audible click.
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Saturday 10th March 2018 20:52 GMT Richard 12
I've owned at least two different keyboards like this
Both more than ten years old - the most recent was branded "keyboard for life" or something like that, and carried a 20 year new-for-old replacement warranty should it die for any reason.
Of course I lost it, turns out that wasn't covered.
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Sunday 11th March 2018 05:29 GMT John Savard
Not So Fast
I notice that the illustration of the actual key mechanism, as opposed to the debris barrier, is not of a normal scissors switch, as is often used in laptops and some Mac keyboards, but of a mechanism that doesn't seem to actually have the ability to move down when one presses the key.
No doubt that is only to avoid putting irrelevant detail in a patent on a specific item, which, incidentally, may be invalidated by a lot of prior art (such as the IBM beam spring keyboards on such things as their 3277 display station, which had quite elaborate barriers against debris) however.
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Sunday 11th March 2018 19:54 GMT pɹÉÊoÉ snoɯÊuouÉ
no way.... not now not ever..
Apple have a massive market where they sell new computers to people that have screwed up the computer with the lightest of water ingress... I have seen macbooks damaged because if condensation.....
£750 to repair a £700 computer.... they sell you a £1200 computer for £1080....
there's not a chance in hell they will bring this to market,,,, but they will make sure it costs others too much to make a 3rd party keyboard replacement....
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Monday 12th March 2018 11:05 GMT Zippy's Sausage Factory
Apple used to make great keyboards
They had wires on them. They discontinued them recently.
Unfortunately the keyboard controllers in them were prone to dying. Which means next I might have to find a ewent keyboard from somewhere as that's one of the few I've ever found that I prefer typing on more.
(My favourite was a 1980s Compaq PS/2 keyboard, which alas died a spectacular death when a power spike took out my motherboard, CPU and graphics card while the PC was turned off. Strangely, however, the HDD, old faithful Taiwanese NE2000 clone and PCI USB card were all fine...)