back to article UK.gov told: Scrap immigration exemption from Data Protection Bill or we'll see you in court

Campaign groups have increased pressure on the UK government to remove a section of the Data Protection Bill that could effectively prevent people gaining access to immigration data held on them. The bill passed through the House of Lords at the start of the year, and has its second reading in the House of Commons today, which …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Campaigners say proposed law would create a 'discriminatory' system for data access rights

    Bbbbbbbut.. that is the idea. Same as the idea is not throw out all the Eastern European workers collecting raspberries. The idea is to employ them WITHOUT key rights they have at present - just ask any of the farmers screaming about the fruit rotting on the fields while supporting Tories or UKIP.

    Whatever is said officially about the "benefits of BrExit" is not what most of the people who voted leave voted for. They voted for no [benefits | housing | healthcare | recognition | rights ] for foreigners. Trying to claim the opposite is outright disingenuous.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      They voted for no [benefits | housing | healthcare | recognition | rights ] for foreigners. Trying to claim the opposite is outright disingenuous.

      You've spoken to them all have you? Or is this just your political prejudices showing though?

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        What else do you think they voted for ?

        To save £800 million for the NHS ? I'm sorry. That was a lie.

        Sure, there were some people who voted for other things - but it's not what they cared about. Good thing, since any such benefits were entirely imaginary.

        1. Spike of Bayswater

          A Clarification (or three)

          Ahem - according to a clarification issued by one Mr. Gove (admittedly post-referendum) this was clearly "an option". An option, equally clearly, is not a lie. Since it is an option, equally clearly, those wise souls guiding the battered Good Ship Britannia may opt one or more of the other options.

          I trust that that is clear.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation, that's like saying only old/uneducated/benefit claimants only voted leave. Here's the rub of the green, we've seen a huge increase in immigration in Europe and once someone has been here two years they have the right to live in any European country because they are citizens. I was watching the main news the other night and they interviewed two immigrants about something or other in Germany and at the end of the segment they said they were going back to their English classes. Might I enquire why immigrants in Germany are being taught English and not German? Maybe they are being taught both, I don't know but what I do know is that the reason for Brexit is because if it hadn't happened we would be absolutely swamped. We rightly are a tolerant society that welcomes immigrants but with that level of immigration the country would go bankrupt or completely lose any identity it has. The other reason we have brexit is because nobody tackled immigration or even discussed it, but maybe that was the point so people would vote leave, I'm not in favour of brexit btw I'm just pointing out the obvious so feel free to down vote to your hearts content.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > Might I enquire why immigrants in Germany are being taught English and not German?

        Immigrants in Germany are not taught anything, apart from what they themselves choose to learn.

        > Maybe they are being taught both

        Refugees and certain other protected persons however, receive both German and where necessary English language lessons, for reasons of social and workforce integration.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Makes sense then, thanks though it could also indicate a desire to move to the UK at some point.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            > though it could also indicate a desire to move to the UK at some point

            I think you will find that English is widely used in business and even social contexts outside of Britain.

            Also, chances of meaningful employment are increasingly small unless you can speak reasonable English. That's where the Germans show the pragmatism they are known for.

        2. David Nash

          I am sure that many non-immigrants in Germany also learn English.

          And why not?

      2. Joe Werner Silver badge

        Citizen after two years?

        Yeah, right.

        At least not where I live (or used to live/work).

        Residents they are because they live there. I was counted as a resident in the country I was studying (outside Europe), because guess what I lived there (for a while). I am a citizen of one of the European countries, and a resident of another.

        Plus you seem to confuse immigrant and refugee. I'm an immigrant in the country I'm living in. I took language classes there because it makes sense - not because I need them. Nobody else paid for them but me, nobody asked me to take them and I did it in my spare time (ok, had some support from my employer wrt.hours and costs - because I asked).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Citizen after two years?

          @Joe Werner

          Thanks, I initially believed that two years was all that was needed however on researching the subject you are indeed correct. This is why people voted brexit, the facts were muddled. These "facts" were not used in the campaign but used in a fake news angle.

          Source:

          https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/eu-migration-crisis-will-refugees-acquire-full-free-movement-rights/

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "They voted for no [benefits | housing | healthcare | recognition | rights ] for foreigners."

      Implement that and food will continue to rot in the fields, and EU doctors and nurses will continue to leave, leaving a hole in NHS staffing that won't be filled by Brit replacements for years, if ever.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >Implement that and food will continue to rot in the fields, and EU doctors and nurses will continue to leave

        Which is already happening, and is only going to get worse. The Brexit crowd made their bed and are going to have to lie in it. Doubtless they'll find someone else to blame when it turns out we can't function without foreigners..

      2. JimC

        And if

        The brits can't train their own people to work in healthcare, do they really deserve to plunder the rest of the world for their trained staff?

    4. idontwantanaccount

      This isn't about Brexit

      The people voted to restore democracy at the last chance they'd ever have gotten, and they were more than aware that doing so would be a bumpy ride for a while. They weren't stupid for removing power from a group of autocrats who hate them. The EU might look like parliamentary democracy, but the parliament can only approve or reject legislation that the EC drafts. Elected representatives (MEPs) have no say in what legislation will be drafted. The EC is like a government that you can't vote out, and the Lisbon Treaty made Brexit an inevitability.

      Anyway this bill has nothing to do with Brexit, and this disgusting amendment obviously won't pass. Stop getting outraged by everything you read, and stop seeing what you hate in everything you look at.

      Also Brexit has a small "e". It's in all the major dictionaries.

      1. H in The Hague Silver badge

        Re: This isn't about Brexit

        "... but the parliament can only approve or reject legislation that the EC drafts. Elected representatives (MEPs) have no say in what legislation will be drafted."

        At the risk of repeating myself, in practice it's little different in the Westminster parliament. On the whole, legislation proposed by MPs (private members' bills) doesn't stand a chance of becoming law, unless it is supported by the government. You literally have to win a lottery (the ballot, hence ballot bill) to get a chance to present one, or use the ten-minute rule. And such bills regularly get talked out or otherwise obstructed. Basically, not a chance. http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/bills/private-members/

        However, members of the Scottish Parliament have more opportunities to table private bills if they are supported by other MSPs: http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/30584.aspx

        The Welsh Assembly's ballot system is similar to that in Westminster, I think.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This isn't about Brexit

        >The people voted to restore democracy

        ..which they had never lost.

        >They weren't stupid for removing power from a group of autocrats who hate them

        No - Parliament is still in power.

        >The UK might look like parliamentary democracy, but the parliament can only approve or reject legislation that the Government drafts.

        There. Fixed it for you.

        And, as an exercise in democracy - how about you propose a bill in the UK parliament? You can't? Shocking! It's almost like you have zero ability to affect the Government in this country! Maybe you need to secede from the UK and form your own little country. I'm sure that people round the world will be raring to sign trade agreements with you. But good luck in getting anything from the NHS or your local council.

      3. strum

        Re: This isn't about Brexit

        >The people voted to restore democracy

        We're losing genuine democratic representation, and being lumbered with UK's broken politics. Well done!

  2. TrumpSlurp the Troll Silver badge
    Trollface

    Conflicting requirements?

    Data Protection versus Freedom of Information.

    Reminds me of an old Edward Lear poem about The Dong With A Luminous Nose.

    "All fenced about with a bandage stout to prevent the wind from blowing it out. With holes all round to send the light in gleaming rays on the dismal night".

    Or near offer.

    The data is so protected that only we know what it is. Trust us not to misuse or abuse it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

    HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!! HAR!!!

    I'm in tears!

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

      "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

      The UK government does have high standards or data protection.....

      Once UKgov has their hands on it, no one else is getting anywhere near it, if they could help it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

        > Once UKgov has their hands on it, no one else is getting anywhere near it, if they could help it.

        Exactly. Until they forget the unencrypted laptop or USB stick with all your data in the pub.

    2. phuzz Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

      The UK has great standards of data protection. Before something is due to be declassified, all the embarrassing bits will get shredded. Can't get more secure than that!

    3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: "The UK has exceptionally high standards of data protection," she said

      Well - we do. Because the EU made us do it..

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    already exemptions for cases of crime, national security, public safety and protection of sources

    I thought that "national security" is a catch-all, that covers 100% of those pesky inquiries? But it appears you can be denied this information on so many grounds... Progress, eh!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not quite fictional example ...

    I want to apply for some paperwork from the Home office.

    In order to do so I need to fill a form on their website asking me about the history of previous paperwork they have given me.

    I for the life of me can't remember what a particular (old) piece of paper was called.

    I am told to do FoI request to get the name of the (old) piece of paper so I can continue with the application.

    If I am denied this right ... how can I trutfully fill the form on their website?

    At which point they will use the incorrect information on the web form as an exuse to deny my application.

    Do I make sense? Do they make sense? Would it make sense they decide to deport me (after Brexit, ignoring a lot more than the required 5 years of residence) because of technicality, never mind taxes, half-British kids, etc, etc.?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > In order to do so I need to fill a form on their website asking me about the history of previous paperwork they have given me.

    My answer: "you should know that".

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hostile Environment

    It's just another spike in the park bench that is our "Hostile Environment" immigration policy.

    Home Secretaries all seem to follow some kind of Evil 2nd Law - each one creating more chaos and harm.

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