A dog DNA database? You must be barking Police have revealed plans to take the lead on tracking down hounds that attack livestock - a dog DNA database. The National Police Chiefs’ Council’s working group on livestock worrying has issued a report (PDF) saying that 1,928 animals were killed and 1,614 injured by dogs between 2013 and 2017 in five English areas. The …
@korev
Really? Don't be a dumb fuck and read his comment.
"blessed dog shit all over my lawn and path"
I'm anti dog shit as well but come on, don't you recognise trolling anymore?
He's also anonymous, why do that? I do it because I don't want my opinion or requests for opinion to be tainted.
"Just think of all those 60s/70s housing estates where the architects thought the place looked wonderful without fences or hedges so there are covenants in the deeds or leases against putting any up."
I had a house with a similar covenant.
Fortunately the ban was on permanent fencing, so when a neighbour's baby turned into a toddler, everyone agreed that the fence her father erected was indeed "temporary" :-)
Mr/s Coward (may I call you that?), I have a friend who is blind and confined to a wheelchair. She gets around quite nicely without any help, thank you very much. Just because YOU would be left in a vegetative state if you were suddenly in a similar situation doesn't mean that those who live with it day in and day out have to give up on life.
And yes, getting shit[0] on her wheels frustrates the hell out of her. Seriously people, is it really all that hard to pick up after yourselves and/or your dawgs?
[0] Literally shit, but also fag ends, spilled sugar-drinks, bits of fast-food, and anything else that stinks and/or is sticky ...
@jake
Could you please give a bit more information?
As both hands are being used to push the wheelchair how does the user get haptic feedback on their surroundings?
I get the feeling that all these posts are just bullshit so if you could explain my simple request then I will change my mind. Thanks.
I know it's a troll, but....
Cats tend not to crap in open spaces. Being small and subject to aerial predation(*) they usually try prefer cover and as ambush predators themselves they usually try to bury it afterwards.
The worst offenders for crapping on driveways/paths/doorways are humans - and dogshit isn't nearly as noxious as monkeyshit.
(*) Young cats are a similar size/weight to rabbits and equally attractive to hawks/falcons. They're also vulnerable to foxes. I've seen them taken by both (it's kinda obvious when the "rabbit" is black with a long tail and has a red collar with a bell on it)
as ambush predators themselves they usually try to bury it afterwards
Not entirely true. The dominant cats on each territory *won't* bury it since it's part of their territory marking (just like spraying is for both males and females[1]..).
Non-dominant cats (both male and female) will bury it as a sign that they acknowledge the dominant cat has possession.
(PS: A fox might indeed take a kitten, but anything over 3 months old it going to cause enough damage that the fox (particularly an urban fox that used to cats) is going to be very, very wary. I've seen our dominant female chase a much larger dog fox off her territory a number of times).
[1] Yes - female cats spray to mark their territory as well. Males and females tend to have parallel lines of dominance and a tom cat is usually very wary of taking on a female in their own territory. Females don't fight fair :-)
I'm pretty sure for 50,000 pounds a year in damage, it's cheaper to pay off the claims than analyze DNA and store it.
(History lesson -- when dog licenses were first adopted in New England, the fees were used to pay off any damage by dogs to sheep if the offending dog was unknown. The towns' incentive to have good dog wardens was they got to keep any surplus funds.)
I'm pretty sure for 50,000 pounds a year in damage, it's cheaper to pay off the claims than analyze DNA and store it.
The 50K damage are not the target. The millions (literally) of fines to owners who do not clean up after their mutt are the target here.
It would have been nice if the police was honest for once. They may actually get public support on this one.
I have dogs, and not all of the excrement I come across when walking my dog, is from dogs. On a couple of occasions, I've found a pile of poop and soiled garments, which has made me wonder how many times I've seen lone piles of poop, and assumed a dog was to blame, when the perpetrator perhaps had some tissues and didn't need to use their grundies.
So maybe we need a human poop DNA database too? : -)
Which leads to the question, how would you tell if a turd found on a London street was actually from a werewolf*? And who'd be brave enough to confront the culprit?
I'd certainly want lawyers, guns and money...
*well, apart from the bits of little old lady and chinese food in it, of course
Which leads to the question, how would you tell if a turd found on a London street was actually from a werewolf*? And who'd be brave enough to confront the culprit?
On a London street it isn't the werewolves you need to worry about; it's the local yoot. 15 fatal stabbings so far this year and zero werewolf attacks. But apparently the tried and trusted way of making sure people don't carry weapons (widespread, and fequent stop & search) is still to be resisted.
Criminal dogs will always find ways to avoid the database and murder livestock.
And maybe it's different in the UK, but wouldn't the primary culprit be feral dogs? If you could round all those up to collect their DNA, why re-introduce them into the country side?
I rather suspect this sort of action to be the first step in a mass purging on undesirable breeds. So many communities already forbid "dangerous" breeds like German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Chows, Rottweilers, etc... Imagine the police coming to your house and saying: "sorry, your dog's great-great-great-great-grandsire was 1/4 pit bull, we have to put-down your dog".
If it makes you feel better, DNA couldn't determine which "breed" a dog's ancestors were. Breeds are an artificial concept created and maintained by humans. They're regularly inbred, interbred and re-hybridized to maintain the required look and generally are only concerned with a very small number of genes.
@Jonathan 27
Oddly enough I've just recently had the DNA test results back for Winston (my rescue dog of unknown origin who joined me last year) COst me £ 35 and took about a month to get the results.
On the one side of his family he's German Wirehaired Pointer, Schnauzer & Greyhound
The other side is Poodle,Whippet & Cocker Spaniel
http://www.sharetheexperience.co.uk/Winston/tree.jpg
came back "dog". Anything else is a waste of (your) money.
There was an (as usual) excellent Infinite Monkey Cage recently where they explained why race is a nonsense (apparently "species" is starting to look a bit flaky). And how these "ancestry DNA" tests are a load of old codswallop the moment they stray beyond "human".
Looks like it's still available for download
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ybg84
I urge anyone who is interested to listen - it will reinforce any decision you've made to ignore those "ethnic origin" boxes on forms.
@JimmyPage
Haven't listened to the full program but based on the write up it appears to be talking about Human DNA testing and in fact at around 1m 30 Brian COx sets the scene as "today we're looking at Race as it applies to Human DNA"
This article is about Canine DNA .
I don't have a specific article /program by someone of Brians popularity /experience to support the accuracy of DOG DNA testing when it comes to breed determination but the general opinion seems to be that "Dog DNA tests tend to be fairly accurate, although the quality of accuracy can vary depending on the tools used to asses dog genealogy and the sophistication of the laboratory used."
Ie it depends on how good a sample the owner takes, how large a database of different dog DNA samples held is, etc etc.
In WInstons case I thought that we was some sort of Irish Wolfhound cross but looking at him again the results that came back make sense
In the countryside the dog problem, as I understand it, is that some among us city dwellers seem to think that the countryside is just a big park to let their dogs run loose in. Possibly the same ones that let their dogs cr*p in the local parks too. Note here that I also strongly suspect that there may also be some overlap between such owners and the d*ckheads who let their dogs shit in people's gardens, or who dump their household items in public spaces.
In the countryside they shoot dogs*, so there are likely to be few locally running feral.
*I'm a dog lover. I'd rather they shot the owners instead of blaming the dogs who know no better.
The proper way to deal with those who let their dogs shit in the street is to force them to eat the shit.
And then eat the dog.
Given your moderate and thought through response to coping with dog mess, I simply can't wait for your proposals on dealing with cat shit.
So many communities already forbid "dangerous" breeds like German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Chows, Rottweilers, etc
I'm not sure this has been very effective. There are still reports of dog attacks on children and even adults being seriously injured or even killed. Perhaps compulsory insurance would be the best approach. This becomes practical with compulsory micro-shipping. If you want a dog that looks like it's a breed that's associated with attacks (and the insurance companies will build up the statistics on that) then it will be up to you to pay an appropriate premium of persuade the insurers that looks can be deceptive.
Perhaps compulsory insurance would be the best approach
Why?
The sort of people that have dogs that attack people won't bother with it (any more than they bothered with the old dog licenses) and it'll only affect those, like me, who end up rescuing dogs that have been mistreated or abandoned by their owners.
This becomes practical with compulsory micro-shipping
Compuslory chipping is already in place - with zero enforcement apart from people like the RSPCA. Yes - vets will always check for a chip but if a dog is never taken to the vet then it'll never be checked. And there are enough scum[1] running illegal puppy farms who will actively avoid having their dogs chipped because that'll aid with tracing the scum. And the sorts of people that own the trophy 'attack' dogs are not, in general, the sorts of people who will bother.
then it will be up to you to pay an appropriate premium of persuade the insurers that looks can be deceptive
Of course - insurance will solve all the problems. Just like it solves all the illegal cars on the road.
What's that? It doesn't?
Oh.
Slightly sarcastic I admit, but it's the politest way I can suggest that your suggestion is baloney.
[1] Scum is perhaps the mildest word I can think of for the people running illegal puppy farms.
"I rather suspect this sort of action to be the first step in a mass purging on undesirable breeds"
All the better. As a sometime dog owner and animal lover myself, I would personally shoot dead several German Shepherd dogs I know without the least shred of guilt, along with a few part pit bulls.
These are animals that have been purposely bred for strength and aggressiveness and the world is a far better place without them.
(PS - don't give me the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" garbage, I have a friend, an experienced dog owner, whose Alsatian was the darling of the family for years until its genetically inbuilt timebomb went off and out of the blue it tried to kill the doting teenage girl it had spent the past decade playing with. This is not exactly an uncommon event with these dogs, either.)
his is not exactly an uncommon event with these dogs, either
Actually, statistically, the dog most likely to attack you is a labrador..
I've owned dogs all my life (Boxers, GSD and Rottie crosses and various Staffie/Jack crosses as well as a dachshund[1]) and the one and only time I've ever been bitten is when I stepped out of bed one night and managed to step on the newly-aquired rescue dog[2]..
It has to be (again) remembered that a dog is a recently-domesticated wolf and should *never* be considered wholly safe. And, as a dog owner, it is up to *you* to educate yourself and your family about how to treat a dog. IT IS NOT JUST A FURRY HUMAN. Our behaviour is (at best) puzzling to a dog and, unless you minimise interactions with the dog that push buttons that shouldn't be pushed, should never be left alone with youngsters.
[1] Of all the dogs I've ever owned, she was the one most likely to bite at random. When they designed the dachshund, they obviously left the YTS trainee in charge of the paranoia setting and too much got baked in..
[2] We know that he had a problem with having been kicked before we had him and we are very careful about it. That night though, I'd had a couple of bottles of wine and, lacking my glasses, misjudged where his paws were. My fault, not his. Because I reassured him rather than hitting him, he's now a *lot* less hair-trigger about feet. I'm still careful about where I put my feet when getting out of bed though :-)
It might be accurate to sugest that dog owners who routinely let their dogs run free (and to attack livestock), may have not bothered to have them microchipped (despite this becoming a legal requirement since 2016) and they might also not bother to have their dog's DNA recorded on a police database.
And maybe it's different in the UK, but wouldn't the primary culprit be feral dogs
It is different - we don't have much of a problem with feral dogs..
So many communities already forbid "dangerous" breeds like German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Chows, Rottweilers
Not in this country. Some places do have dog control orders in place that require you to keep specific breeds[1] muzzled when in a public place or all dogs on leads during specific times[2] but no-where in this country crimilalises owning a specific breed.
[1] Sings old mantra of "it's not the dog, it's the owner", Having owned GSD and Rottie crosses in the past (and a Staffie cross) I can quite categorically say that none of those dogs are more inherently dangerous than any other breed. No dog is 100% safe and will bite if threatened or under attack. But moron owners who have specific breeds because they think it makes them look hard are most of the problem - especially when they train them to attack. That and people not understanding that, even though the dog has been domesticated for thousands of years, it is, fundamentally, a wolf underneath and you have to adapt *your* behaviour to enhance the positive bits of the wolf heritage and supress the socially undesirable bits. Which is why I get so very, very annoyed when people have trophy dogs of any breed and fail to train them (and themselves) in how a dogs mind works. Even a 'handbag' dog can do quite severe damage of pushed too far and something the size of a Rottie or GSD (or a Staffie) can do a lot of damage very quickly.
None of this DNA nonsense. None of this checking to see which dog bit which sheep; sheep are, after all, born to be bitten. No, do it properly:
Reintroduce wolves into Great Britain. And bring a whole new meaning into 'running for public office'. I'm sure that I could sell tickets to the run-off. Think of how many sheep they could save this way.
Indeed, we could extend this and add editors of the Daily Mail to the run-off, too. After all, they seem to think that they're running the UK as it is.
Oh Yes !! Please in my lifetime.
I know farmers will moan (not that we'd notice), but even if we lose a few sheep, it would be worth it.
Personally, I strongly suspect we'd hardly ever see them. They are very intelligent animals, and would quickly work out the best way to avoid mankind is to not eat our sheep.
Besides, the UK is drowning in deer (no natural predators).
Did anyone watch the BBC programme a few years ago about the amazing effect introducing wolves to Yellowstone had on the landscape ? Stopped flooding within a couple of years ....
Dog turds
Owners should take little bags to pick it up and bin, and definately not hang from a tree (except owner by neck).
Livestock.
Some breeds are a risk, others may just herd them!
As we have a slightly bonkers dog, she is on the lead most of the time, except when in a park style environment where she runs between us all. She seems to flip between full on excitement and sleeping.
Loves walks and we always take enough bags for 2 poos.
As to livestock, she looks a bit like a lamb!
"Some breeds are a risk, others may just herd them!"
There's a very fine line and no breed is immune.
Another country and a lifetime ago, I lived amongst sheep farmers. They all bred collies as heading dogs and they _ALL_ had a selection of loaded rifles ready when introducing new dogs to sheep.
Any dog which failed the test (ie, attempted to bite the sheep instead of herding them) never left the testing paddock. Experience showed that "once a sheep worrier, always a sheep worrier" and any farmer who doubted that had it reinforced when they tried to train a particularly prized pup out of the habit.
At least 1/3 of the collies which went into the testing paddock didn't graduate.
On the other hand, Staffordshire Bull Terriers have a reputation as fighting dogs. Without being trained into the role they tend to be happy playful family dogs with a tendency towards getting fat.
Staffordshire Bull Terriers have a reputation as fighting dogs
The name kind of gives it away (bred for bull-fighting, used later as defence dogs by taxmen because they have a strong pack protective drive).
they tend to be happy playful family dogs with a tendency towards getting fat
Indeed. Our staffie/jack cross[1] didn't ever get fat, but that was probably because she had no speed control between 'motionless' and 'blur'. She did slow down once she went blind though.
[1] Rescue dog that, within being with us for a week, was protecting our elderly cats against the young cat next door that was bullying them.
Especially the poop story.
Germany puts poop bags for free in holders in popular walking areas, even on mainstreets where dogs are welcome (in Germany they are also welcome in pubs, shops, restaurants, cafes, trains, shopping centres etc etc etc). Because the bags are ALWAYS available and always near a bin (even if for whatever reason the stock of bags in your coat pocket has run out) you find that the dog turds are picked up and thrown away (in the bin, unlike in the UK where on the odd occasion someone happens to have a bag when needed the turd is collected and then left on the ground in a plastic bag - meaning it will not get naturally cleaned up)
Its very very simple and much cheaper to administer and doesnt require intrusive databases and collection of samples, lab time and so on.
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