Bloke sues Microsoft: Give me $600m – or my copy of Windows 7 back

A fella in the United States is taking Microsoft to court to get Windows 7 put back on his PC. Frank Dickman, of Albuquerque, New Mexico, filed a lawsuit on Wednesday seeking damages from both Microsoft and CEO Satya Nadella for what were termed "civil rights violations" that occurred when his Asus laptop was automatically …

[Charles 9]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Except there needs to be a justification for an amount that high. Usually, huge judgments only come as the result of deaths directly attributable to the wrongful action or class action suits with lots of defendants.

Now, the dream decision would be for Microsoft to be compelled to openly release its source code for Windows 7, but even I know that no action on Microsoft's part could legally compel them at this stage. Any such attempt can and would be appealed, and we're aware of the conditions up top in the SCOTUS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Except there needs to be a justification for an amount that high.

Seems an appropriate sum in view of the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

[sabroni]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

Fucking snowflakes.

[Hollerithevo]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

@sabroni, that was supposed to be a joke. Or maybe your response was also in high humour?

[Hero Protagonist]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

“@sabroni, that was supposed to be a joke.”

Write better jokes

[Chronos]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

sabroni wrote: Fucking snowflakes.

If you can do so before it melts, not to mention the scale issue, you have my sympathy, sir. I would refrain from openly declaring your peccadilloes in public forum, though.

[aqk]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing snowflakes

sabroni wrote: Fucking snowflakes.

If you can do so before it melts, not to mention the scale issue.

Hey, no problem!

How do think this guy got the moniker "Dickman"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

"Fucking snowflakes."

Slightly off topic surely? And no links.

[Splork]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

"Fucking snowflakes."

Slightly off topic surely? And no links.

You might try a Google search but the View Image button may be borked...

[wallaby]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

Sad indictment of the state of the world today that these idiots are allowed to bring spurious claims like this.

Really wish people would get a life

[FrozenShamrock]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

What is spurious about his claim? He paid money for a product and Microsoft intentionally destroyed it. As the first comment notes, if this had been done a hacker it would have been a criminal offense.

[JimboSmith]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

Personally after having to deal with several PCs that were upgraded(?) to Win 10 by the Red X con I hope he succeeds in getting 7 back. If it wasn't issues with the graphics cards then it had issues with hard drive on most of the machines I dealt with. Plus one user with had issues with Alzheimer’s and remembers pictures but not words. As a result when the icons were changed in Win 10 to different looking ones they were stuffed. I was able to fix it thanks to a copy of Shell32 from win7 and a few screen shots of the old desktop.

[Palebushman]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

@wallaby.

As you mention "that these idiots" in your comment, can I assume that is directed at solicitors, lawyers etc; who are never idiotic in producing unconscionable fees for time wasting rhetoric.

[Dun]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

LOL that idiot got a response from you and Microsoft. I guess he made his point.

[death&taxes]

Re: the emotional distress of dealing with Windows 10.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Andy Livingstone]

Aware of conditions on top of SCOTUS

We are???? Do tell!!!

[wallaby]

Re: Aware of conditions on top of SCOTUS

ooh,,,,, redneck king apologist in the house

[kryptylomese]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Customers of a restaurant are much better off not looking inside the kitchen!

[anothercynic]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

@Charles 9,

Except there needs to be a justification for an amount that high.

This is the United States. You don't need *any* justification for *anything* in a lawsuit. Just launch it and see if it sticks...

[illiad]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

win7 source code??? If you have been following the apocryphally awful development of win10 from the start, you may have surmised that they junked it ALL (workers, code, etc, etc...), being sooo confident it was super fantastic, that they took **6 months** to realize that people hated it!!!

It seems they had to go back and recreate the good bits again from scratch... :(

[Wayland]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Windows 10 does seem new and fast but unfinished with a lot of the old screens still needed. Potentially better than Windows 7 but default settings need to be different. No spying for example, no forced updates.

[TCook1943]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Good bits ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Irony of Microsoft's honchos not bothering to use Microsoft Word.

The Irony of Microsoft's honchos not bothering to use Microsoft Word to type a letter to notify Corel. Someone struggled with the Ribbon Bar and gave up in frustration?, I know I do sometimes.

[Aqua Marina]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Meh, MS should just tell him to install Classic Shell and to go away!

[Emmeran]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Doesn't work. It's a video driver problem with the NvideaMobility chips from a certain model. You can eventually force W10 to sort of work but each update Tuesday blue screens it again. I've spent years struggling to force it to work with no luck on my 27" AllinOne Asus.

I eventually gave up and went to Windows 7 (even though it came with Win 8.1), I bought my only copy and wrote the whole episode off to bad luck with early Chinese products.

[ChrisC]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

a) if his PC was truly borked by the W10 "upgrade", then he wouldn't get very far trying to install anything else to persuade it to behave more like the PC he was used to

and

b) thanks to the most recent round of "improvements" in W10, Classic Shell is no longer in development and there's no guarantees as to how long it'll continue working as MS continue to fiddle with stuff that CS hooks into...

[Stevie]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost... (4 ChrisC)

"if his PC was truly borked by the W10 "upgrade", then he wouldn't get very far trying to install anything else to persuade it to behave more like the PC he was used to"

Unless, and this is just a guess, part of the cost if for a new HDD or SDD on which to load the much nicer Windows 7.

60 dollars for a 1TB HDD, one hundred million times that for the hassle of trying to find all the little programs and drivers that make life so great with that particular machine.

Entirely reasonable.

[Jeffrey Nonken]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Classic Shell has been abandoned by the author. Cites too many rapid changes by Microsoft to keep up. The last version is still available for download.

[jelabarre59]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Classic Shell has been abandoned by the author. Cites too many rapid changes by Microsoft to keep up. The last version is still available for download.

Also has been open-sourced on SourceForge (https://liliputing.com/2017/12/classic-shell-goes-open-source-developer-abandons-customize-windows-10-make-work-like-windows-7.html) and cloned to GitHub. So still maintainable by anyone who wants to torture themselves with MSWin coding.

[Scorchio!!]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Better still send him a Linux installer with Wine.

[wallaby]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

"Better still send him a Linux installer with Wine."

and out of their holes they come

tedious

[RegGuy1]

and out of their holes they come

What? Are you saying you like this MS shit?

Where they tell you how you should work, rather than Linux, where the computer is a tool that *you* configure how *you* want it to work?

I think it is you, sir, who should climb back into your hole.

[Mike 'H']

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

Don't you mean a Linux installer for his Whine? :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Don't forget to sue them for time lost...

"Better still send him a Linux installer with Wine."

What, no free beer?

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

Nervously...

#metoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Nervously...

Zog_but_not_the_first,

To avoid the *very* delicate issues with using #metoo ....

perhaps #metoo2 .... although possibly still too soon for such jokes* !!!

*Totally support #metoo BUT it appears to be getting 'too easy' to cast blame/guilt without any need for apparent evidence. I am sure that someone is eventually going to be 'unfairly smeared' because it is very difficult to defend against 'Guilty until proved Innocent' that the current media *seems* to be working to. !!!

All for catching the Guilty BUT don't like the possibility for scores being settled by *some* jumping on the bandwagon and seeing who they can impact. A bit like 'Swatting' it can have unintended consequences and often the 'unintended' is a little bit dubious, if you get my drift.

[Anonymous Coward]

What I did

my solution:

1) erase disk

2) obtain a Linux DVD or USB stick

3) Figure out your next step...

...

99) Give M$Soft the finger.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:Figure out your next step...

Tinkering with WINE indefinitely trying to get the software you need to run?

[toxicdragon]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

This is the one thing I am worried about. Come hell or high water my next machine WILL run a Nix variant because of this auto upgrade rubbish. If the worst comes to the worst I think I will have to run windows in a virtual machine just for certain programs.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Works well for me!

[Stevie]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step... (4 toxicdragon)

"This is the one thing I am worried about. Come hell or high water my next machine WILL run a Nix variant because of this auto upgrade rubbish. If the worst comes to the worst I think I will have to run windows in a virtual machine just for certain programs."

Then I welcome you to the new world, where upgrades are not automatic unless they are, everything is easy to find out unless it isn't, things are intuitive unless they are opaque and all you have to worry about is systemd.

Been there. Done that. Have the T-Shirt.

Mint should be your first try in my opinion, though they will ask you to make decisions about *which* Mint that you are unequipped to make at the start. Just go for one and try it out. The installation is relatively painless, or was for me.

After that you may learn to approach software with the catchphrase "what new hell is this?" since everyone has their own axe to grind in the OS GUI world.

And good luck with the hosted windows idea. You may need it by the shovelful.

[JimboSmith]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step... (4 toxicdragon)

Mint should be your first try in my opinion, though they will ask you to make decisions about *which* Mint that you are unequipped to make at the start. Just go for one and try it out. The installation is relatively painless, or was for me.

Or try them out with a live CD/DVD/USB first?

[Jakester]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

I have a few computers (both laptop and desktop) running Linux and using Virtualbox to host a Windows 10 virtual machine for my wife. If she suspects a virus, pup, or other malware, I click back to my latest snapshot - problem fixed in seconds, not days. I do a snapshot usually about every 1-3 months and just before a new software install. There is a speed penalty, but it is not noticeable for web surfing, e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets. I also have a couple applications that require Windows and generally use in a Virtualbox virtual machine.

Linux isn't perfect, by any means, as the Virtualbox supplied by the Ubuntu repository broke when a recent kernel update came down the pike. I had to remove the old, install the latest from Virtualbox's website, and do a little Googling to get it to work.

[TCook1943]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Wine is quite capable of running virtually all applications & quite a lot of games these day's & contrary to another post is very easy to use. I am 74, suffer from the dreaded Al & have some brain damage from a mini stroke & wasn't that bright to start with & even I find it a doddle.

[Mike 'H']

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

The funny part, is that for better or worse, the Linux ecosystem has been in a continuous-upgrade cycle since I started with it, some 20 years ago.

Its just that unlike big corporate entities, its a community based effort where people can persuade other people to not change things too horribly - and if one distributor decides to, there's hundreds of alternatives, most not too terribly different from what one has used previously.

Then finally said distributors either become irrelevant or change. (Can anyone say Ubuntu+Unity ? What, Unity is dead finally? Good riddance!)

[Stoneshop]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Tinkering with WINE indefinitely trying to get the software you need to run?

That would be "Spinning up a VM for that odd piece of Windows software that you still need". And my tinkering with WINE was limited to "Oh wait, better uncheck this option and let the installer finish first instead of starting the program with the installer still running"

[Adrian 4]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

How about :

4. Find out how important those legacy applications really were

5. Ditch them for something better

[Charles 9]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

4a. Find out they're business critical, irreplaceable, without substitutes, and Windows-ONLY.

4b. You're a gamer. Substitutes are not an option, and most of your library is Windows-ONLY and WINE-unfriendly due to the hardware demands.

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Don't see why you're getting downvoted for stating reality.. I'm a fan of Unix, and it's my primary OS at home, but there's plenty of instances where software only works on Windows. Use the right tool for the job, sometimes that requires running a non Unix OS.

Gaming is still Windows centric unless you're willing to use a console or restrict yourself to older games. DirectX 12 support in WINE? Only just getting started. VR? Non starter for the Rift, and even the 'more open' Vive barely works, and isn't supported well in SteamVR.

[MJI]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Gaming.

But a lot of us are happy with consoles. It is not a poor relation. Just different.

Some people may say what about keyboard and mouse, to me that is too much like work.

As to game availability, there are many many games console only which PC players often miss.

Windows is not needed.

[davidp231]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"Windows is not needed."

Ah but it is... one of those said consoles run Windows. Not quite the same in PC land, but it's still Windows under the hood.

[MJI]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"Ah but it is... one of those said consoles run Windows. Not quite the same in PC land, but it's still Windows under the hood."

Well luckily mine is one of the others, but happy to hunt robots with bows and arrows, treasure hunt around the world, and shoot lots of aliens.

[Wayland]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Linux gaming is a lot further along that you know. Vulcan is available on Windows and Linux. Games are using Vulcan. AMD has made huge progress on Linux. Yes you're probably safer with Windows but that's changed so much and continues to progress.

[kryptylomese]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Yes you can still make a living as a blacksmith but the world has moved on. It will always be hard to support legacy systems/games/applications.

Also "WINE-unfriendly due to the hardware demands" - What?

[Jeffrey Nonken]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

@Charles 9, thank you. I too have propriety tools I need for my work that are simply not available on any other platform.

Also, games. And the few available on Linux (or OS X) that I've tried don't behave the same, which does not encourage me to change.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

5. Ditching for something better invariably means ditching for worse at least 90% of the time.

The likes of LibreOffice, Gimp, etc are certainly fit for purpose but until Photoshop, popular accounting and business software, games run natively on Linux, most users won’t consider switching.

The only thing that will change this mindset is that more users are working directly in a browser, so even using MS Office and OWA on Linux is now a realistic option for many people who don’t use advanced office functions. I’m actively looking at having several users with this scenario, including online Dropbox or better storage, will be better than the frustrations and instability of Windows 10.

[Adam 52]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"The likes of LibreOffice, Gimp, etc are certainly fit for purpose"

Depends on your purpose. LibreOffice isn't fit for purpose for delivering my coursework, because LibreOffice docs don't render the same on my examiner's copy of Word.

GIMP is in no way a replacement for Photoshop.

" but until Photoshop, popular accounting and business software, games run natively on Linux, most users won’t consider switching."

I keep considering switching, every time I see that irritating Windows 10 login screen with the advert text on it, every time it randomly upgrades and is unusable for hours, every time "telemetry" consumes all CPU; but there are so many apps that are Windows only and don't have alternatives.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"Depends on your purpose. LibreOffice isn't fit for purpose for delivering my coursework, because LibreOffice docs don't render the same on my examiner's copy of Word."

File>SaveAs.

On the save dialog do you see a drop-down box labelled Filetype? Click the down arrow. Select your examiner's version of Word.

Alternatively, you really need an examiner who values content over appearance.

[Hollerithevo]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Doctor, it doesn't work that well. Tried on a 200 page Libre document and wept.

[kryptylomese]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"Export as" (Microsoft Office Format) instead of "save as" and you can export as PDF (if that is an acceptable format for review)

[tiggity]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

@ Adam 52

Your examiner is not fit for purpose if word and some precise formatting is compulsory for anything.

Beyond a few basic stipulations (e.g. font type and size, whether double spaced) any "essay" style course submissions should be acceptable in an y format - including printed out, so word processor irrelevant

Only a poor examiner assumes access to specific software (unless it and necessary OS to run it is provided free of charge to the students)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

If formatting is important, a PDF should be required rather than a word document.

[Jakester]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

re: If formatting is important, a PDF should be required rather than a word document.

As far as I know, a PDF document will print the same on any computer, unless you print using Microsoft Edge, then numbers can be substituded (unless Microsoft fixed that bug already).

Amen - too often a document created in one version of Office will not format the same with a different version of Office. I don't know if Microsoft ever fixed this, but in earlier versions of Office, formatting was different (even on the same computer) if a different printer was selected. I never felt like wasting the time during the last 20 years to see if that is still an issue.

[jelabarre59]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Amen - too often a document created in one version of Office will not format the same with a different version of Office. I don't know if Microsoft ever fixed this

FIXING it would presume it was a bug/mistake in the first place.

[david 12]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step... (e.g. font type and size)

Actually, font size changes as you convert from one environment to another. As you no doubt know, fonts are specified in 'point' size, and "point" is a platform-specific non-portable dimension. Coversion offers 2 choices:

1) Keep the point size, reformat the document for different line length / body size.

2) Adjust the point size, keep the line length / body size constant by adjusting the font.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Adam 52

every time I see that irritating Windows 10 login screen with the advert text on it, every time it randomly upgrades and is unusable for hours

Two phenomena I can honestly say that I've never seen on any of my Win 10 machines. I think that disabling Cortana prevents ads appearing, and either setting WiFi as metered or just disabling the Windows Update service stops annoyances arising from OS updates

[Wayland]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

"Depends on your purpose."

I work most of the time on my Linux Mint laptop but I still need some workarounds.

I have VirtualBox Windows XP for a MS Access App as no way can Access work in WINE

I use WINE for little Windows tools. The ones that work in any version of Windows seem native on Linux using WINE.

Crossover Office when it's too hard to make WINE work yourself.

And I have a Windows 7 laptop for when nothing but Windows will do, VPN into a network with the same LAN IP range.

[TCook1943]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Wine runs MS Office, Photoshop, popular accounting and business software flawlessly unless of course your, "Popular" includes some very exotic software indeed you should have no trouble. Games, quite a lot run well enough on Wine & of course for those who don't object to non free software Steam is well worth a look.

[jelabarre59]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

The likes of LibreOffice, Gimp, etc are certainly fit for purpose but until Photoshop, popular accounting and business software, games run natively on Linux, most users won’t consider switching.

But the majority of people dabbling with their (likely bootlegged/pirated) copies of Photoshop don't need a fraction of what it does. And if Photoshop/Autocad/etc are your job-dependent needs, then by all means you should run MSWin or MacOS (although I thought Disney Studios had been running PS under Wine for some time now).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Tinkering with WINE indefinitely trying to get the software you need to run?

Well, either that or a VM running a bootleg copy of Win7 downloaded off bittorrent.

// anon...because *I'd* never think of doing such a thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

You can get 90 day expiring VM's for free from Microsoft for testing purposes.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

Well, either that or a VM running a bootleg copy of Win7 downloaded off bittorrent.

// anon...because *I'd* never think of doing such a thing

Or track down an evaluation copy of MSWin7 Enterprise, and use the RearmWizard script to make it perpetually reset the evaluation timeout. Not that I would know about such a thing.

[Updraft102]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step...

You can get the Windows 7 install DVD from Microsoft... all you need is the product key, which you'd still need with the torrented version (unless it's been cracked somehow).

[Oh Homer]

Re: "Tinkering with WINE"

A while back I developed a terminal case of "can't be arsed" and just left a prebuilt PC running Windows, instead of my usual wipe and install Gentoo.

Here's what I've found: pretty much every app I use on this Windows box is primarily a Linux app ported to Windows, or in some cases an app that was multiplatform from the start.

This wasn't a conscientious decision to reject proprietary software - after all, there wouldn't be much point in that if the OS itself is proprietary, it's just that the only software that actually gets things done the way I need it to is, coincidentally, open source.

Or perhaps not so coincidentally, given that open source is user driven, and therefore naturally reflects the actual needs of the users, as opposed to being developed in isolation, behind closed doors, purely to serve corporate profits, with results that are often in direct contradiction to the users' needs, or at best totally oblivious to those needs.

As for WINE, frankly I've never really seen the point, except as a purely academic exercise. Windows is "free" in the sense that it comes preinstalled on every PC ever built, so why not just dual boot into a real copy of Windows, if you desperately need to run some supposedly irreplaceable Windows app?

[ChrisC]

Re: "Tinkering with WINE"

"Here's what I've found: pretty much every app I use on this Windows box is primarily a Linux app ported to Windows, or in some cases an app that was multiplatform from the start."

Yes, I'm much the same here - the majority of the productivity software installed on my PC is opensource and almost entirely multi-platform, and of the minority of commercial/Windows-only stuff, there's only one thing I've bought for myself, the rest is stuff my employer has provided to enable me to work from home as and when the mood takes me.

A few years ago I'd also have had a reasonable collection of Windows games installed too, but I've pretty much given up on PC gaming now with the exception of some casual "5 minutes to spare" stuff (which, again, is mostly open source/multi-platform), with my infrequent serious gaming sessions now provided for by the collection of Wii(U)'s and PS3/4's dotted around the house thanks to it also being home to a couple of gaming crazy kids :-)

So yeah, each time I see the latest stunt being pulled by MS, the closer I find myself getting to reaching the tipping point where the pain of having to nuke from orbit and start afresh with Linux, with the attendant learning curve required to get back to the same position of familiarity as I currently enjoy with W7, will be easier to bear than having to put up with Windows as my primary OS any longer. Undoubtedly I'd then whack W7 onto a VM so that I could continue to have access to those work apps, but the thought of then being able to drop out of that VM into an environment that respects me as the owner of the PC on which it's being allowed to run, rather than being treated ever increasingly like a resource for Microsoft to use as they see fit, is becoming far more appealing.

I'll most likely stick with W7 for as long as I can - it does everything I need it to do, in an environment that I still largely feel in control of - but sooner or later the time will almost certainly come when my primary OS is no longer Windows. Unless MS do a complete 180 and go back to releasing OSs in the style of 7... And in other news today, Heathrow announced plans for a new terminal to cater for the sudden increase in demand for flights from the porcine community ;-)

"As for WINE, frankly I've never really seen the point, except as a purely academic exercise. Windows is "free" in the sense that it comes preinstalled on every PC ever built"

Umm, not quite. It is possible to buy prebuilt PCs with no Windows licence, and I've yet to find a copy of Windows preinstalled on any of the PCs I've built for myself over the years...

[Updraft102]

Re: "Tinkering with WINE"

Windows is "free" in the sense that it comes preinstalled on every PC ever built,

It never came preinstalled on any of the PCs I built. My laptop came with Vista... past its sell-by date for sure, and my other one came with 10, which is garbage and unfit for any purpose.

I use WINE pretty often on that old Vista era laptop. Works great with the stuff I have running on it (one of the programs actually runs better in WINE than in native Windows; fancy that)... why bother to shut down, boot up, use the program, shut down, boot up... when I can just run them in Linux?

The idea is to get away from Windows... If I was interested in using Windows for those things that don't have Linux versions, I might as well just use Windows, period. And if that Windows is 10, that's not happening.

[Wayland]

Re: Re:Figure out your next step... WINE

Crossover Office have figured out how to make stuff work in WINE. Lotus 123 works well.

[Stoneshop]

Superfluous step

1) erase disk

2) obtain a Linux DVD or USB stick

1) obtain a Linux DVD or USB stick

2) select "Use entire disk" as install option

[Scroticus Canis]

Re: Superfluous step

Some things need to be killed with fire. Just to be sure.

[onefang]

Re: Superfluous step

"Some things need to be killed with fire. Just to be sure."

And then nuked from orbit.

[Charles 9]

Re: Superfluous step

"And then nuked from orbit."

Be careful. Could be an Andromeda Strain that can GROW from nukes.

[Timmy B]

Re: What I did

Were the points 4 to 98 figuring out how to get Linux to play nicely with printers an/or wifi cards. Something that never ever seems to go right for me...

[WallMeerkat]

Re: What I did

I thought 4 was 95, but 4.1 is 98?

[davidp231]

Re: What I did

"I thought 4 was 95, but 4.1 is 98?"

It is. Much like NT5.0 is Win2k, XP is 5.1, Server 2003/XP64 is 5.2.

Vista is 6, 7 is 6.1, 8 is 6.2, 8.1 is 6.3, and 10 is well... 10.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What I did

"Something that never ever seems to go right for me..."

If you'd keep your mouth shut, no one would know

[TCook1943]

Re: What I did

You must either be something of a retard or singularly unlucky, printers, scanners & other devices always auto install flawlessly. I cannot comment re wifi however as I always connect via Ethernet.

[jelabarre59]

Re: What I did

Were the points 4 to 98 figuring out how to get Linux to play nicely with printers an/or wifi cards. Something that never ever seems to go right for me...

Funny, I would have said the same thing about MSWin.

[BobChip]

Re: What I did, actually

Step 1 is to give MS the finger. The rest follows automatically.

Get that finger in the air!

[codejunky]

Re: What I did

I have upgraded a few people from windows 8/8.1/10 to linux mint. I do check what they use the machine for in case they have any windows specific tie-ins but they are often pleasantly surprised at how quick their machine suddenly is and how easy things are.

I do have a windows 7 partition (I use it purely for games and nothing else) and I can very well understand his demand to 'downgrade' to the much better operating system.

I am hopeful MS will go back to that style of OS at some point. Even though I only use windows for games I dread the idea of having to put their recent offerings on my nice PC.

[TCook1943]

Re: What I did

I am with you 100% but would add that should 7 go the way of XP you could always cut off it's internet access & use Linux as your server. Should I ever run 10 again, (Unlikely) I'd do that from the outset BTW.

[fobobob]

Re: What I did

Bro, in LinuxLand, numbering starts at 0.. get with the program!

[wallaby]

Re: What I did

Your solution

drag Linux into a story about an idiot and his gripes about Microsoft, yet again

tedium tedium snore

[jelabarre59]

Re: What I did

Your solution

drag Linux into a story about an idiot and his gripes about Microsoft, yet again

tedium tedium snore

Would you prefer we talk about ReactOS then?

[bigfoot780]

*Ducks*

If you have a Apple device you are forced onto the latest version of IOS. The issue is that you had Control over the OS on your PC. The mass Windows 10 Upgrade has put an end to this. It'll be very interesting when devices become end of life in regards to the feature updates.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: *Ducks*

EOL behaviour is already here; M$ is supposed to have stopped pushing Win10 updates to people with "old" hardware.

Since none of my friends or family run Win10; I dont know if this means new features, updated features, or everything including security patches.

[Mine's a Large One]

Re: *Ducks*

Nope. On iOS you'll get the icon dot to show that an update is available, but it's up to you if you install it or not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: *Ducks*

"If you have a Apple device you are forced onto the latest version of IOS. "

Bollocks.

That is all I have to say on that.

[Steve Todd]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

You need to do a little research. Automatic updates in iOS is something you can easily turn on or off. It also tends not to brick hardware that it updates (older hardware may run slowly, but it still will run), and it is possible to downgrade to older versions.

The issue here is that Windows auto updated to version 10, without being asked and without the possibilty of reverting to Windows 7. In doing so it bricked the machine.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

You had to agree and you could go back for 30 days, I knew as we had to do that for some computers due to Autodesk being somewhat slow to support W10 properly...

[Pascal Monett]

Re: "you could go back for 30 day"

Um, kinda hard to go anywhere if the machine is bricked.

[Muscleguy]

Re: "you could go back for 30 day"

You can reinstall from a Time Machine backup disc and choose which backup version to use.

[Zippy's Sausage Factory]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

You had to agree and you could go back for 30 days

I didn't. Came back after leaving my old Medion running some jobs overnight to find that not only had my video encode not worked, I was suddenly running Windows 10. I wasn't happy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

"You had to agree and you could go back for 30 days, I knew as we had to do that for some computers due to Autodesk being somewhat slow to support W10 properly..."

For accuracy, that was the *intended process* BUT in many instances the version of Win7, saved to be restored, had been 'fiddled with' by MS due to some attempt to 'build in' the telemetry or the GWX 'hack' etc when you reverted.

The upshot was that the Win 7 you got was not the Win7 you had before the Win10 'Upgrade'. People found that the Win7 did not work as it had before.

i.e. random crashes or certain software would not run etc.

This happened on a few machines that had been 'forced' to Win10 that I had to revert to a fully working version of Win7.

It usually entailed a complete 'nuke' and re-install then selectively restoring data after re-installing the software again !!! [This was because the latest backup if you had one was not up 100% up to date as the 'GWX blight' had kicked off the 'upgrade' when it wanted [Now mid process] and not when you wanted [Never]!!!

No doubt this will be denied yet again BUT I am recounting reality, as I experienced it, not something I read on the 'InterWebs' !!!

[JimboSmith]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

You had to agree and you could go back for 30 days,

Ah yes click on the red x in the top right corner of the window that normally means close to agree to installing windows 10. I know a few people who 'agreed' like that and then wondered where the fudge windows 10 had come from. Also for one person I know off the revert back to Win 7 did not go well.

[WallMeerkat]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

"iOS ... also tends not to brick hardware that it updates"

!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/14/fix-broken-ios-10-update-bricked-iphone-ipad-itunes

https://drfone.wondershare.com/ios-11/ios-11-update-bricks-iphone.html

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/17/apple_bricks_ipads/

etc. etc.

[Steve Todd]

Re: *Ducks* @wallmeerkat

I didn’t say never, and it’s recoverable back to the prior version.

You can pretty much guarantee that any OS update will cause problems for some users. The trick is in how gracefully the system can recover if it does hit issues (iOS isn’t pain free here, but it’s not rocket science to put into recovery mode and restore things).

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: *Ducks* @bigfoot780

"It also tends not to brick hardware that it updates"

ISTR there have been issues of that nature.

[Muscleguy]

Re: *Ducks*

Forced? I occasionally get a pop up message asking me to consider upgrading to High Sierra but since autoupdate is disabled and will not be enabled and an administrator password is required for such a thing Apple cannot force me.

It did not force me to upgrade to Sierra even. I did that voluntarily after careful research including on this specific machine (mid 2010 Macbook Pro) which has the apparently unfixable kernel panic thing when using the graphics card. So long as I force gfxCardStatus into Integrated Only on startup and before starting Thunderbird (why does an email client demand graphics card access?) all is sweetness and light.

The machine was a hand me up from the Youngest when she upgraded. It was my Xmas present. It still has some of her weird DNA genome assembly stuff running which I haven't figured out how to turn off, even after the OS upgrade but it works.

In terms of gaming I'm having great fun playing the latest iteration of Avernum 3 and Angband even in colour needs no more graphics than a text editor in text character mode.

Hmm that was low, a thudding Chinook just shook the house. Probably heading up the coast to RMS Condor outside Arbroath. You get to recognise the distinctive sound of Chinooks around here. This hill isn't, hopefully, high enough for them to crash into.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ducks

>If you have a Apple device you are forced onto the latest version of IOS.

Really? Or you could not click install. None of my devices run the latest versions of Apple OS as they have to be stable.

[Lusty]

Re: Ducks

"Or you could not click install"

Incorrect. You have to click "later" and then "remind me later" EVERY FUCKING DAY on an Apple device.

On Apple desktop/laptops you have no button for don't install, so have to click the update notification which then loads the updater and then you can click later. EVERY FUCKING DAY.

Not updating an Apple device leads to constant harrassment until you cave in and they "upgrade" you to the new slower version of the software. This leads to frustration about performance which eventually leads to a new device. You're then left with the choice between abusive Apple and evil Google for your new device. Oh well, at least Android devices never get updates...

[David 132]

Re: Ducks

Lusty You have to click "later" and then "remind me later" EVERY FUCKING DAY on an Apple device.

<sarcasm>

As this is Apple, and everything they make is designed to be user-friendly, there is of course a workaround for this - at least on IOS devices. Simply fill up your device with music/video etc to the point where it can't fit the updated OS image file (usually a GB or two) and that will stop the nagging, which only begins once it's successfully downloaded the image.

See? Simple. It Just Works(TM). Isn't that super.

</sarcasm>

[Felonmarmer]

Re: Ducks

If that's the case can you create a small 1meg partition, create a folder in there mirroring where IOS downloads the update and replacing the actual folder to a shortcut to the mirror?

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect. You have to click "later"

Really? The MacBook Pro I'm using here has an update to High Sierra that has been available since it came out, and I get no prompts to install. Security updates,etc. do get prompted.

[Velv]

Re: Ducks

“None of my devices run the latest versions of Apple OS as they have to be stable.”

You have to install the latest version at some point, there is no option to install N-1. Agreed you may not install on release day, allowing time for other people to find the bugs, but at some point you will be installing the latest release.

[Cowboy Bob]

Re: Ducks

"You have to install the latest version at some point, there is no option to install N-1."

Really? So I must be imagining all the older versions of MacOS that I see in the purchased section of the AppStore then

[JaimieV]

Re: Ducks

If you don't at least download the installer using your appleID, it'll not show in the store later when it is replaced with the next iteration.

You can still get them off Apple as a direct download, but its a faff.

[Shadow Systems]

We should all sue Microsoft!

They are an Abomination Unto Nuggin & therefor should be strapped into a chair ala Clockwork Orange & forced to watch endless loops of "upgrades gone wrong".

I wish I were joking. Consider a giant blinking sarcasm tag scrolling & bouncing around the screen.

After having to jump through seemingly endless hoops to stop my computer from being forced to "upgrade" to an OS I didn't ask for & didn't want, MS deserves to be repeatedly kicked in the bollocks.

For every third party program I had to install to assist me in monitoring my system settings to make sure MS hadn't "helpfully configured" my system "for optimum compatability", they deserve a second set of arse kickings.

For every "important" update that was just another attempt to sneak in Win10 telemetry, they deserve a third set of beatings.

For all the money spent on anti migraine medecin to combat the massive pounding headaches resulting from yet another MS underhanded trick, they deserve to be propped against a wall & beaten with their own ear hair...

TL;DR: MS is a fucking joke that was never funny in the first place & needs to be sued into oblivion...

I'll get my coat, it's got my dried frog pills in the pockets...

[Wensleydale Cheese]

Re: We should all sue Microsoft!

'They are an Abomination Unto Nuggin & therefor should be strapped into a chair ala Clockwork Orange & forced to watch endless loops of "upgrades gone wrong".'

I'll help you make the film.

[Muscleguy]

Re: We should all sue Microsoft!

"they deserve to be propped against a wall & beaten with their own ear hair..."

Step away from the dried frog pills, they might kill your creativity. Production is also very bad for the frog ecology. The mosquito/biting midge population in Ankh Morepork would be much lower if they didn't keep drying the frogs for pills.

[bombastic bob]

how long ago was this?

last I recall, M-shaft said they weren't enabling GWX a year after Win-10-nic released, and that's been at least another year or so that (allegedly) this "upgrade" wouldn't happen.

So W.T.F. ?

As much as I wanna see Micro-shaft eat some crow over GWX and Win-10-nic, this ain't it.

[BongoJoe]

Re: how long ago was this?

It may be the lack of caffeine here but I couldn't see any indication of when this stuff happened.

The gentleman may have been trying to communicate with Microsoft for months, perhaps years, and after getting shoved from pillar to post has decided to recourse to this action.

I would imagine that at far as he is concerned he started off with a working computer and then an update broke it. That, in his mind, puts the fault firmly and squarely at Microsoft's door.

Furthermore, the massive tag on the law suit isn't to get $600m but to make Microsoft sit up, take notice and give him what he bought in the first place: a functioning version of Windows 7.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: how long ago was this?

They could just post him a retail Windows 7 CD and a polite note reminding him that the end of support date is 23 months away (January 14, 2020)

[d3vy]

Re: how long ago was this?

Not even that.

Just a link to the (already available) iso file and instructions on locating his own coa.

[Wensleydale Cheese]

Re: how long ago was this?

"They could just post him a retail Windows 7 CD and a polite note reminding him that the end of support date is 23 months away (January 14, 2020)"

Correction:

"They should have just posted him a retail Windows 7 CD and a note of apology in the first place"

Or just maybe, not forced the upgrade.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: how long ago was this?

"They could just post him a retail Windows 7 CD"

Haven't they all been buried in the desert along with those game cartridges?

[davidp231]

Re: how long ago was this?

"Haven't they all been buried in the desert along with those game cartridges?"

No, that's what happened to all the WinME discs..

[Helldesk Dogsbody]

Re: how long ago was this?

Safer than the alternative suggestion for WinME CDs - if they'd fired them in to the sun they'd probably have just made that crash too...

[MJI]

Re: how long ago was this?

Why is Bob so obsessed with Network Interface Cards?

[Donn Bly]

Microsoft already allows download of Windows 7

All of the hassles of Windows 10 and GWX aside I would think that there has to be something more to this that isn't being reported, seeing as how Microsoft already allows an end user to download Windows 7 directly as long as they have their key code which would seem to satisfy his request in the lawsuit:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7

I long ago made a bootable USB drive with all versions of Windows 7 on it, and I use it frequently to reload workstations after the hard drive fails. It took a bit of fiddling to but both 32- and 64-bit versions on the same drive, but there are plenty of tutorials online to walk you through it. The OEM keys work just fine, so it isn't like the days of XP where you had different images for oem vs retail.

[Anonymous Coward]

'OEM keys work just fine'

"...The product key you entered appears to be for software pre-installed by the device manufacturer. Please contact the device manufacturer for software recovery options..."

No luck there! There's far more users with bundled OEM copies than separately purchased. Anyway, guess I'll just have to image the drive. Its been a while since I did that kind of thing. Is there anything built-into Linux to help... If I install Mint on a separate partition is there a tool that will image the NTFS partition etc?

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: 'OEM keys work just fine'

> is there a tool that will image the NTFS partition etc?

dd should do the trick, just be very careful when specifying source and destination partitions/drives - it's not nicknamed "disk destroyer" for nothing.

[CAPS LOCK]

"If I install Mint on a separate partition is there a tool that will image the NTFS partition etc?"

I just looked, it's in 'Disks' under 'Settings' from what would be the 'Start' menu in Windows. Click the gear-wheel menu icon and select 'Create partition image'....

[g00se]

Re: 'OEM keys work just fine'

Clonezilla

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: 'OEM keys work just fine'

I have a "corporate install disk" for WinXP which has served me well for years. At some point I'll need to avail myself of something similar for Win7, methinks.

I don't mind paying for the OS, but once I pay, *I* would like to be the one who decides I have no more use for it. If that's not the case, I will make other arrangements. (which may or may not involve violation of the EULA)

[Updraft102]

Re: 'OEM keys work just fine'

Any old key you find on the net will do for downloading the Windows installer from MS. They don't check them as carefully as they do during activation (I would imagine any key you find floating around the net is already blacklisted for activation).

[davidp231]

Re: Microsoft already allows download of Windows 7

"The OEM keys work just fine"

They do after you change the key to what's on the OEM sticker after installation.

[psychonaut]

Re: Microsoft already allows download of Windows 7

davidp231 is 100% correct. the key OEMs actually use (so if you recover it using produkey or similar) to instal windows will not activate using an oem windows disk. you have to have the key on the coa, its different to the (vlk im assuming) key actually used to install windows by the manufacturer.

[davidp231]

Re: Microsoft already allows download of Windows 7

"its different to the (vlk im assuming) key actually used to install windows by the manufacturer."

I think they use a generic (and publicly available) install key, which will let you install, but that's it.

[Anonymous Coward]

'civil rights violations'

Are more of these Lawsuits just not being reported? Any others similar to the one below? With the exception of Dell in certain markets, OEMs still offer Zero choice for OS. Its monopolistic / protectionist... Meanwhile the PC market continues to tank! Where is the EU in any of this? A Win-10 telemetry monitor isn't a solution, it doesn't even let you delete any data!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/12/microsoft_hp_italy_windows/

[stopthebollocks]

Re: 'civil rights violations'

Who gives a fuck what the EU are doing? We are leaving in a couple of years anyway. All they do is take our money and expect us to be grateful when a little of that comes back.

[Dwarf]

Seems fair

After all, I expect the case will take a decade, so only 60m per year

[Anonymous Coward]

Me also

Hate windows 10 with a passion. Its not fit for purpose in business.

I have Beyond Compare installed, but typing "Bey" into the start menu wants to launch Edge (which isn't my default browser) and take me to Beyonce homepage.

Windows 10 is about Microsoft trying to claw back browser marketshare

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Me also

The Lyrics to 'Close to the Edge' seem very apt.

A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace

And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace

And achieve it all with music that came quickly from afar

Then taste the fruit of man recorded losing all against the hour

And assessing points to nowhere, leading every single one

A dewdrop can exalt us like the music of the sun

And take away the plain in which we move

And choose the course you're running

accessing points to nowhere

choose the course you're running

Windows 10 is a 'road to nowhere' (IMHO)

You will follow the MS course even if you don't like it.

[Elmer Phud]

Well-named plaintiff

I'm sure the T&C's will have covered it.

Something like -- 'we reserve the right to do what we like with out software'

as opposed to Apples' 'All your device belong to us!'.

He's got off lightly

[Anonymous Coward]

Biggest regret

Ever since went to windows 10 the laptop is unusable, whenever i turn it on it spends 30 minutes updating itself and nothing else works. At least it stopped restarting itself in the middle of my skype calls mostly because i no longer use it and use my ipad. Wish I'd stayed on Win 7.

[cantankerous swineherd]

"Windows 7 retains a sizable market share according to web estimates."

add 1 to this number for my win7 work machine that nevver touches the internet.

[hottuberrol]

i want a slice of that $600M

I'm with Frank. Two weeks without my home laptop because the latest win10 auto update borked it. Couldnt even access a boot USB stick. 5+ hours spent with MS tech team on Monday night, with them calling me back every 30 mins for an update on progress. In the end I think I found the way to access the USB, not them ! Lost all my apps since a cold install was required...more time still being lost as I recover those. All this on a consumer laptop that was originally win8, but not a low-spec machine. Absolute shower of a company that takes little responsibility for the trouble it causes....every auto update, hell even the original win10 online install, has been fraught with freezes and excessive downtime.

[LewisRage]

Re: i want a slice of that $600M

"Couldnt even access a boot USB stick."

yeah, because that could be caused by the operating system

[MrXavia]

Re: i want a slice of that $600M

@LewisRage,

Have you used a computer with Windows 8/10 recently? took me 2 hours last week to actually get my windows 8 laptop to boot from a Win10 install USB stick (going from windows 8 to windows 10 is an upgrade).

[oldcoder]

Re: i want a slice of that $600M

Actually, it can by damaging the BIOS/UEFI configuration. And with UEFI, completly destroy the system.

[davidp231]

Re: i want a slice of that $600M

"And with UEFI, completly destroy the system."

Yup. Done that, albeit from an EFI prompt. Completely borked the motherboard to the point it just constantly power cycles when you try to switch it on. So yea, bork enough settings in any way, you have a duff mobo on your hands.

[Tigra 07]

Frank Dickman - Throwing a floppy wobbly.

[Adrian 4]

Google too

I don't use Windows enough for their tricks to bother me, but I'm all for suppliers taking responsibility for their poorly-tested upgrades after Google ruined my formerly-excellent Nexus 7 with a slow, battery-hogging Android version.

[psychonaut]

simple solution

I've got a genuine, unused OEM Win 7 pro MS can buy from me for $500 million, and then give to him. this will save them a load of money.

[Stevie]

Re: simple solution

Simpler and cheaper: Newegg has 'em for $99, or did a few months ago.

[Anonymous Coward]

KB2952664 rears ugly head again

This week's pre-ticked patches for W7 include the hoary KB2952664 - which has a bad reputation for facilitating W10 install and retro-telemetry.

The shock was to find that my PC's Update History contains several versions of this going back several years. Hiding one version obviously didn't stop re-issues appearing and getting installed. Thought I had protections in place for that. The question is whether removing all of them would stop future updates working for everything.

[Charles 9]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

The standard procedure is to redo the badlist every Patch Tuesday. That way telemetry add-ons that get updated get hidden again. I did notice that particular one and ran my blocker, and it did indeed hide that re-upped update.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

KB2952664 "Compatibility update for keeping Windows up-to-date in Windows 7

This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program. The diagnostics evaluate the compatibility status of the Windows ecosystem, and help Microsoft to ensure application and device compatibility for all updates to Windows. There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update"

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

"Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program."

AKA telemetry.

[Charles 9]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

It's on the badlist not because it's WinX related but because it contains Big Brother stuff.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

" ... The shock was to find that my PC's Update History contains several versions of this going back several years... "

This is standard MS 'F*ckery' [Technical Term] ... They re-issue or re-number KBxxxxxxxxx to try to get people to allow GWX or Telemetry or other 'secret squirrel' updates.

Even when I make them hidden they sometimes come back weeks/months later !!!

DO NOT ALLOW ANY AUTOMATIC UPDATES !!!

CHECK EACH KBXXXXXXXXX PAGE FOR WHAT IT 'ACTUALLY' DOES !!!

It takes time but is worth it to avoid the Win10 Blight !!!

[Sorry for Shouting :) ]

[Charles 9]

Re: KB2952664 rears ugly head again

I'm waiting for them to include GWX or Big Brother in a Critical update, forcing a Morton's Fork on everyone: either submit or be pwned.

[Anonymous Coward]

600M or 6B

https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/02/15/dickmanvmsftcomplaint.pdf

Is it only me who sees $6,000,000,000.00 on last line of page 4.

The amount in words is "six hundred million dollars" though.

[Tigra 07]

Re: 600M or 6B

The perfect scam. Tell them it's $600m, then get them to sign without reading the actual figure.

Of course I doubt he'll get anything above $10,000 in any case for this.

[Big_Boomer]

.NET

If your software uses .NET then MS will break that too with their Win10 Creators/Fall Creators updates that install .NET 4.7/4.7.1, and with Win10 you can no longer uninstall it and install 4.6.2, which worked perfectly. I use Win10 at home and it's OK, but in the business environment it is a cluster**** of monumental proportions. Even Vista was never this bad, probably because We have customers telling us that MS will ONLY sell them Win10 but until MS decide to stop ****ing about with .NET we can only recommend Win7 for use with our software. At least with Win7 we could block the .NET upgrades and keep them on 4.5.2. MS are shortly going to start losing customers hand over fist over this as we and I imagine many other software vendors are starting to develop for 'Nix due to the incessant problems with using Windows.

[Nick Gisburne]

Updating Windows 10 to Windows 10 also has its problems

When updating to the 'Windows 10 Fall Creators Update', it decided that it didn't like the folder which contained my user information, so promptly changed a registry entry and pointed to an empty 'temp' folder - same username/password, different folder. Without knowing what it had done, it appeared that the update had wiped all my installed software and settings, and it took a number of hours before I (a) realised things were still there and (b) found what registry entry to change to get my login pointing to the correct folder again. A non-techy user would have had little chance of fixing it. This techy user did not appreciate waking up to a seemingly 'clean' Windows desktop and the prospect of getting my entire working environment re-installed.

Learned my lesson. I now have Windows Update scheduled for its next update several days in the future, which I constantly kick forward every few days. I'll update when I'm ready, thanks. Just AFTER I do a full system backup, in case it all goes tits up again.

[David Lawton]

This is why, even if you hate Apple you should wish for its MacOS usage share to grow (It has been growing slowly and is now used on 1 in 10 laptops/desktops)

Microsoft with its almost 90% desktop class OS usage share means it can do what ever it wants and its tough shit if we do not like it. If you could get all the applications you needed on another platform like Linux or MacOS you would just say i'm not taking this Windows 10 shit and go use something else, But because Linux has 2% usage share of desktop PCs/laptops hardly anybody develops for it outside of open source, and even on Mac there is still quite a few programs some people need to do their job that are not available.

Until somebody can claw the majority of the world off Microsoft Office and these legacy .net apps Windows will always dominate , unfortunately meaning we have to just put up with Microsoft shitty practices.

This is mainly aimed at business though, consumers seem to be happy with iOS and Android....

[Charles 9]

What about the gamers, especially the high-enders? The Mac and especially Linux gaming library pales compared to Windows, and they shun consoles like the plague.

[Doctor Syntax]

"What about the gamers, especially the high-enders?"

Their problem. For the rest of the world, it's getting work done that matters. Legacy S/W like Office is the problem.

[Charles 9]

Guess you never heard of PROFESSIONAL gamers. It's a real matter of money to them.

[Wulfhaven]

A fair amount of home systems are windows merely because of gaming. Were they to have somewhere decent migrate to. MacOS, Linux or BSD (heh), then the home market for windows would die a much needed slow death.

I have a stationary computer solely for playing games. My old gaming laptop has been formatted and now runs linux. And my work laptop never ran anything but linux.

If my VR headset and gaming library would run without hassle on linux, I would throw the last bits of windows out, with glee. But alas, no can do yet.

[Charles 9]

There's hope. I've been reading up on thinks like DXVK and vkd3d: runtime translation layers for DX11-12 that combined with existing compatibility layers for the older DX's can mean a potential out. Put together with Lutris to manage the mess, and one can start hoping (the list isn't that big just yet, but we have two years yet).

[sisk]

What about the gamers, especially the high-enders? The Mac and especially Linux gaming library pales compared to Windows, and they shun consoles like the plague.

There's a reason I tell every gamer who asks me to stick with Windows. Often to their great surprise. But, to be fair, an awful lot of those games will run just fine under Wine, and if Vulcan ever gets off the ground (I know, you can stop laughing) then we'll see a lot more of them running natively on Linux.

[Charles 9]

Hah. Call me when the latest WoW and Overwatch can run natively on Linux (this is important as no console runs WoW yet it makes a killing with prescriptions, and Overwatch separates by platform). And no, WINE is not an option due to the standing warning from Blizzard about banning WINE users (and TTBOMK, this hasn't been withdrawn as of yet).

[sisk]

Honestly neither WoW nor Overwatch - MMO and arena FPS both being genres I dislike - hold much interest for me so I've not paid attention. That strikes me as odd though. Why in the world would they ban WINE users?

[Charles 9]

For a long time, they've been of the mind that Linux users are trying to secretly run cheats. Basically a case of they can't vouch for the environment since the kernel may not be pristine. This may have changed more recently, but in many instances playing games on WINE is a serious case of YMMV, especially if the game is newer.

[Craigie]

Downgrade rights

Didn't he have ample time to downgrade after the upgrade?

[ChrisC]

Re: Downgrade rights

If the PC is borked as a result of the W10 "upgrade", then how would you initiate the "downgrade" back to your previous OS again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Downgrade rights

Also downgrade in my experience did not work, luckily I had imaged the windows7 before letting M$ screw it up.

[Emmeran]

Re: Downgrade rights

Yup - all he had to do was click on that "Downgrade" button that shows up on the fancy Blue Screen (as soon as the memory dump finishes).

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm confused; Microsoft let you download isos for Windows 7 if you have a product key?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows7

[tiggity]

Good on him

Win 10 update totally borked a PC of a relative of mine.

Given their uses were just a bit of web, email, graphics, word processing and I only get to visit occasionally I just ended up putting Linux on (crappy OEM machine with no install discs, just had (originally) win 7 part installed so on punter first use install completed with user able to add their username , password, wifi password etc))

No hassle since then.

[adam payne]

Frank Dickman is a hell of a super hero name, we gotta say

Any individual that slaps Microsoft with a lawsuit is a super hero.

[sisk]

I don't want to know what kind of powers a superhero with a name like Dickman would get. I can tell you what kind of studio would make the movie though....

[John70]

Won't the laptop have a recovery partition and resetting to factory defaults put Windows 7 back on?

[Charles 9]

As I recall, the Win10 upgrade replaces that recovery partition with a Win10 one, especially if UEFI is involved.

[davidp231]

"Won't the laptop have a recovery partition and resetting to factory defaults put Windows 7 back on?"

Windows 10 completely twats any existing OEM recovery partition, rendering it useless - even if you access it by the OEM-defined method. To get it back you have to wipe the whole disk and restore it from its recovery media.

[sisk]

I think a halfway decent lawyer could actually make the case that Microsoft violated the law in the way they rolled out Windows 10 updates by not allowing users to reject the upgrade. That said I'm not sure how this could possibly be a civil rights case or how exactly he figures that he's owed $600 million for it.

And, honestly, if Microsoft is smart they'll give him the downgrade rather than pay their lawyers for this one. After all, that'd cost them less than a single hour of a lawyer's time.

[Charles 9]

"I think a halfway decent lawyer could actually make the case that Microsoft violated the law"

Applicable question being, "WHAT law?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Manual Rollback

Friend of mine was desparate, highly distressed his Asus had updated to 10 while he grabbed some lunch, he couldn't work out how to uninstall it so struggled on until the uninstall time limit expired. Called me asking for help, I usually ignore cries for aid but I felt sorry for an old friend: Wiped the hdrive, installed Windows 7 (serial and COA sticker off ebay for under a tenner) - ran like a dream until Windows 7 updated itself with the Spectre patch, bricking it, had to reinstall W7 AGAIN... then I turned off updates. 600 Million Dollars is not enough.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Manual Rollback

Nadella would have ordered a risk analysis before his obtrusive gamble, the only way to en-mass strike with a rolled up newspaper to the snout: take them to court in the millions. Like every other large company, they will settle before it sees a gavel and it only costs £40 for a small claim in the UK. A couple of £1000 for a £40 punt is a better potential investment than the bank, bonds or shares.

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember when...

Computers shipped with restore disks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Custom Windows image

I create custom Windows images using NTLite.

You can pick and choose which version of Windows you want (Home Premium/Ultimate)from a stock image downloaded from Microsoft.

You can get the image size very small and install speed increased by stripping out unwanted/unneeded drivers, language packs, Windows services, bloat, etc.

https://www.ntlite.com/

(Or, you can do this on your own by mounting and altering a Windows image using the built in "Dism" command line.)

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone should start suing Microsoft to oblivion.

Death by a thousand cuts?

[Conundrum1885]

To be honest

W7 x32 may be old now but the hardware itself will run x64 fine.

I used 10 for a while on two of my machines but it really does suck, hard.

Problems that on W7 are inconvenient on 10 are totally catastrophic.

OS should *never* hard crash when a USB device is unplugged safely or otherwise.

[davidp231]

Re: To be honest

"OS should *never* hard crash when a USB device is unplugged safely or otherwise."

Maybe they were running the original Win98 USB stack...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: To be honest

Wonder if the problem was a bad voltage regulator? Seems that there are a lot of dodgy LM1117's doing the rounds and used on Arduino as well.

Would high amplitude noise on the USB data lines be enough to crash a vulnerable system?

[Agamemnon]

Problem / Solution

Just two weeks ago, my better Half's, mother's ThinkPad was acting very flaky. The Better Half is a competent computer user and had a go at fixing it before calling yours truly (I maintain a Shroud of Asshole™ to discourage this except in the most dire of cases).

Windows (7) was being blamed, when in fact, the poor hard drive was in it's death throes (an aggressive controller/drive test caused it to finally roll over and gasp it's last). No biggie as I've got stacks of consumer hard drives laying around, as when I get a new laptop (I go through them like Seattleites chug coffee) I pull the drive, drop in a much better one, and install BSD or Linux before the machine is ever turned on.

The problem came when Installing Windows... no media (naturally) and the recovery is on the now TITSUP spinning rust. Tho there is a legal key conveniently on the bottom of the boxen.

Lenovo wanted some $100ish USD and two to three weeks for delivery (little old lady in a home with no Netflix, ABSOLUTELY NOT an option lest she pester better half to misery, resulting in Me Being Pestered to homicide) and Microsoft said "Blow Us" (paraphrased, but still) which was irritating as I'm six miles from their campus and ten from one of their silly stores.

Enter: Pirate Bay.

Less than 15 minutes later, I've got an ISO for Win7 Home "Pro" (which confuses me), I kicked in an additional USB Stick rattling around my gear bag for The Cause, and an additional 10 minutes later, Install Media is sorted (did have to get a "Write Windows Stick" application for Kubuntu because arsing with dd at that point would have been irritating, figured it wouldn't be bad to have in the toolbox anyway).

Windows 7 installed Great. The key on the bottom was accepted as Gospel, and activation was without hitches or drama. The next right hours were spent screwing with Updates and Patches, but, no homicide prison sentence seemed worth the effort. Last, put bullets in the "Update To Ten" process.

Best part? No lawyers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Problem / Solution

"The key on the bottom was accepted as Gospel, and activation was without hitches or drama."

Make sure you have a system image for next time. I put mine on DVDs - two copies. An activated fresh install normally only needs 3 or 4.

The original Windows on a PC usually contains a generic key for the OEM - not the one on the PC's label. The latter is an OEM one-off and any attempt to do a second install with it later will be rejected.

Even a "retail" licence seems to have re-install restrictions. I was recovering a PC that had had a motherboard failure - using a copy of the hard disk for safety. It needed a re-authentication - so far so good. Then I swapped to a bigger disk - and it refused to let me re-authenticate. Three months later I tried the same disk again - and this time it worked. It looked like there was a limit on how many times you can re-authenticate inside three months.

[davidp231]

Re: Problem / Solution

"Less than 15 minutes later, I've got an ISO for Win7 Home "Pro" (which confuses me),"

They most likely meant Home Premium. There's Home Starter, which has less features (eg Aero) and designed for really poor laptops - and Home Premium, which is basically the general home user version.

[James O'Shea]

Re: Problem / Solution

There's six 'editions' of Win 7:

1 Starter, designed for, errm,. 'less powerful' systems in, errm, 'emerging markets' (translated: for low-end, otherwise useless, hunks of junk for the 3rd-world) and should never be seen in 'more developed' markets (places where most of the inhabitants ain't brown or darker). Starter is 32 bit only and has max RAM of 2 GB, min RAM of 512 MB. Missing many features including Aero, user-changable wallpaper, Active Directory. Sometimes showed up in 'more developed' markets on tablets and such very low-end systems. To be avoided at all costs.

2 Home Basic, one step up from Starter. Better, but still low-end, hardware. Min RAM, 32-bit, 1 GB, min RAM, 64-bit, 2 GB. Max RAM, 32-bit, 4 GB, max RAM, 64-bit, 8 GB. Also aimed at 'emerging' markets. Only some Aero features. No AD. Geofencing; thou shalt NOT activate Home Basic outside of certain specific locations, this thing is aimed at 3rd-World, not cheapskate Yankees. Run away, run away.

3 Home Premium. The standard home version for 'more developed' (paler) markets. Up to 16 GB RAM in 64-bit version, otherwise as per Home Basic. No geofencing, so it works in 3rd-world markets, too. All of Aero. Still no AD.

4 Professional. The lowest version that I would even consider. Has AD. Has Aero. Missing some stuff other editions have, notably high-end encryption (no BitLocker) and language packs. Up to 192 GB RAM for 64-bit version, otherwise as per Home Basic.

5 Enterprise. Has almost everything. Aero. AD. BitLocker. Lots of language packs. Not available in stores, you have to get it direct from Microsoft. Same RAM as Pro.

6 Ultimate. Has it all, including excessive cost. Same RAM as Pro.

[Deadly_NZ]

I don't know why he doesn't just do what he is suing to do go and download Windows 7 iso. I did it last week from a microsoft site. And he should have the sticker under his machine .. Job done. Link Provided for him.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7

[Anonymous Coward]

So you did not back up the OEM installation files then

hahahahahaha,

took me some time to do also

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So you did not back up the OEM installation files then

I did mine back in the day (x520)

Still have most of them somewhere, probably on rotted-to-hell DVD-R and pressed disks but may be readable.

Did anyone get anywhere with the "recovery" method of selectively zapping damaged DVDs with a finely focused blue or green single mode laser diode to get them to read again?

Most of the forensics tools I use won't even see past the TOC, data *was* there at one point but alas not recoverable.

[FidotheFrightful]

Last year after an MS Windows 10 update I had problems with Firefox. Firefox worked OK prior to this update. Anyway after aeons of time [2 months +] by MS Problem Centre [India] the Firefox issue was finally sorted. However, some kind soul had accessed my Yahoo account settings and linked all my Yahoo contacts to my LinkedIn [an MS Company] account. First thing I knew about it was phone calls and emails from everyone I' d had an email from or sent one to asking questions or saying they'd linked up. On checking my Yahoo settings, I found that the change was made at 2.30 am BST, about 8AM Indian time. At 2.30 am I was in the Land of Nod. Say no more.

So I can only hope this guy or his legal team has lots of patience. Good luck to him

r

[ADRM]

Windows 7 download from Microsoft

Non of my keys issued by Microsoft will allow me to download from their website as they fail authentication. The OEM keys bring up contact the OEM of course with the buck passing. This tool does the job. Downloads what you need from M$ with no hoops or other bullshit to apply.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-and-office-iso-download-tool

Your welcome.

[Anonymous Coward]

Currently does NOT give you access to Windows 7 or 8 .iso's.

MS have blocked the old access points etc.

Did work some time ago.

[ADRM]

I see that now. Last time I used it was just before Xmas last year and all was fine. I hope he gets his $$$$.

[NURREDIN]

WINDOWS IS THE WORST

Windows operating systems have been pure B.S since they stopped making Windows XP. XP did EVERYTHING I needed in a business machine and was simple to use.I still operate XP in my office,I just don't allow my XP machines on the internet because they're no longer supported.I was incensed when thousands of man hours of documents produced on the stock XP word processor were unreadable on Windows 7. What Microsoft has done is equal to my Mercedes dealer saying he will no longer service my 2008 SL that only has 35,000 miles on it because it's an older version that runs perfectly. I use a Windows 7 machine purely for online communications and nothing else. When they stop supporting Windows 7 I will either go with a Chrome OS machine or a Mac. I'm done with Microsoft.

[fengwhite]

Re: WINDOWS IS THE WORST

Me too. I don't want to install 20 gigs on my SSD.

I might go back to Windows 7. The thing is some apps don't work with W7 anymore, due to DX12, that's why I "upgraded".

MS agressively promote change, however they won't stop shoving bloat down our throat until a line is drawn.

I'm willing to deal with Linux or pay for OSX, that shows that I have reached the limit, I'm sorry.

MS should stop, they'll milk their cash cow dry.

[Jtom]

Being a retired old fart, I have few needs for my pc. Simple Excel spreadsheets (expenses/budget, tax records, stock holdings, personal info, etc.), photos (unedited), a few letters in Word documents, internet bill paying. That's about it. What I have suits my requirements, so updates can only hurt. Since I only visit financial sites online, I don't even care about security updates (I use my iPads for everything else). If I am compromised by a financial site, I figure I'll be part of a very large class action suit.

I want the option to freeze all the software on whatever pc I purchase. It took forever for me to locate all the places to stop auto updates (there is still one that tries - Bing, which is strange because I have never used it and have deleted everything I could find related to Bing, and also Chrome, since they seem to be co-joined twins). It was maddening to sit through something that insisted on updating as soon as I booted up, turning a fifteen second chore to pay a bill into a twenty minute endevour.

[TonySomerset]

Our David

Bravo, we all wish you well and I am ashamed we didn't have your guts.

I too am totally indignant at Software Houses just arbitrarily taking away purchased programmes and forcing me onto an upgrade or worse a subscription service I didn't seek, need or want.

[VulcanV5]

Whaddya mean: "suffice to say"??????

Oh c'mon. El Reg going all twee: "suffice to say, despite Windows 10's faults, it has excellent security defenses. You should only stick with Windows 7 if you really, really like it or need it."

What kind of bollocks is that? Half the "excellent security defenses" to be associated with Windows 10 are those a user needs to deploy to defend against Microsoft's telemetry. There's also the fact -- or should the expression be: "Suffice to say"? -- no Windows version has ever had, or ever will have, "security defenses" so "excellent" that such can be regarded as the primary factor in making a choice.

Mrs V has Windows XP on her laptop and really, really likes it and needs it for the stuff she does. It has no "excellent defenses" but it does run with Malwarebytes Premium and WinPatrol Pro and, guess what? No problems at all. And no Windows Updates for, well, years. Ohhh, the shame, the shock-horror of it all.

Me, I don't use it because XP is (to me) tedious beyond belief so instead have Windows 7 on my home desktop, again with Malwarebytes Premium and WinPatrol Pro. (Yeah: and no AV, either.)

Have I, as an AMD user, ever had a bad experience with Windows 7? You betcha. And the cause? Well, obviously, it could only be Microsoft, Microsoft damn near borking it with a screwed-up "excellent defense" against Spectre and Meltdown that led to failed boot-ups and sundry other problems all because Redmond had no idea that there's more to computing than merely Intel.

"Suffice to say" then that "excellent defense" -- oh dear, do we have to have these hapless mis-spellings? -- is all about defending oneself from Microsoft's secret slurping and blatant incompetence. The day when I have to give up on Windows 7 at home -- if such a day ever comes -- is the day I'll give up on Windows altogether. And probably, not before time, too.

[fengwhite]

Re: Whaddya mean: "suffice to say"??????

A well coded software does not need "security defenses". Software is supposed to be inherently secure without needing a "defender" service to babysit it.

[Charles 9]

Re: Whaddya mean: "suffice to say"??????

There's no such thing as "inherently secure" because there's no such thing as "secure," full stop. Even formally-proven software has scope limits (seL4, for example, breaks its proof if DMA is enabled). Man is imperfect, meaning anything made BY man is imperfect (even well-behaved software can trigger a hardware fault, intentionally or not).

[Jake Maverick]

good luck to him!

[Paul Westerman]

So I guess...

...I'm the only person in the world for whom Win10 is perfectly fine, runs all my stuff really well and never falls over?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So I guess...

I too, am a not unhappy (I didn't say satisfied) user of Win10 both at home and at work.

I remember a few years ago when Windows updates meant a couple of hours work to et things going again.

I am not a particular fan of Windows and I run Linux on my wife's old computer that can not support recent versions of Windows. And don't get me started about the ribbon interface on MS Office.

[alexjfindlay]

Bill Gates emailed me at five thirty AM on a Sunday

I posted a slew of photos of 9 crashed computers after Microsoft broke through a Symantec firewall and installed win 10 on my computers. His email insinuated... Can you not find anything better to do than criticize MS. Because Bill entered negotiations with me on behalf of MS.I see him as a potetional target.

PS. I have a number of friends and they were all superimposed with IE T Shirts. I would like to join your claim. It is worthy of class action status. Take a look and see at how the European Union humbles the mighty Microsoft.

Respectfully Submitted.

Alex

Forgive typos this was done over breakfast on Andriod.

[russmichaels]

I understand it is frustrating for people when their PC updates and no longer works. But in this guys case I would say it is down to ASUS to have made sure their laptops were compatible with Windows 10.

And you do have the option to rollback if it doesn't work.

But what happens when the people who decide to keep using Windows 7 end up getting infected with malware or ransomware because their OS is no longer supported? As they did with XP.

They blame Microsoft for that as well.

Microsoft are simply trying to get everyone onto the same OS, so that it is easier to support everyone on a unified platform, and have fewer issues. Considering how many millions of devices run Windows it is literally impossible to cater for every scenario, every device, every piece of hardware.

Windows 10 does run on quite old hardware, I am running Windows 10 on several old Intel Core 2 systems.

My biggest qualm is Microsoft terrible support from useless incompetent support staff. Whenever I contact them, I usually end up giving them support and telling them how things work.

[Updraft102]

Microsoft are simply trying to get everyone onto the same OS, so that it is easier to support everyone on a unified platform, and have fewer issues.

No. Microsoft will be supporting Windows 7 until 2020 and 8.1 until 2023 with security updates. It doesn't hinge on how many people have migrated to 10... MS is obligated to support 7 and 8.1 for a fixed length of time.

[queengeek]

Hey all,

The dollar figure is incorrect. $6bn is 6,000,000,000. Whereas 600 million is 600,000,000.

Just sayin...

My 77 year old mother would like her Windows 7 back too.

[Anonymous Coward]

We know

RTFA

[Bob. Hitchen]

Not my problem

He has my sympathy. I've been on Mint since they made XP redundant with very little aggravation. I installed the latest copy on an old w7 laptop including all updates/apps in less than 2 hours. Only software outside standard was the latest HP version for a network printer.

[fengwhite]

Brand new Windows 10 only takes up 20 Gigabytes on my disk.

[James O'Shea]

It grows. It’s currently in excess of 32 GB on my Asus laptop.

[Clarecats]

Consumer law

Consumer protection law in UK states that the purchaser is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their purchased property.

[Jonathan 27]

Yeah...

This lawsuit is idiotic. Even if he wins the most they can award him is the price of a copy of Windows 7. Which, if the PC shipped with Windows 7, he already has a license for, he just needs a copy of the media.

Which you can get here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows7

[ebayironman]

Let's not overlook the obvious

If the computer has a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) for Windows 7 he already has a license. And most likely the factory recovery partition is also intact.

Would take me all of 2 hours to install and update Windows 7 on that computer.

I don't know why this guy is such an A$$.

[Charles 9]

Re: Let's not overlook the obvious

A Windows 10 update REPLACES the recovery partition. I speak from firsthand experience. Going to Windows 10 is meant to be a ONE-WAY trip.

THAT'S why he's suing. Because he got swept up in a ride he didn't want to ride. I believe it was once called getting "Shanghaied".

[illiad]

Re: Let's not overlook the obvious

He is too lazy to get a decent backup program..

[illiad]

Re: Let's not overlook the obvious

yeah, 2 hours PLUS all the other hundreds of tweaks and small programs too, meaning most of a day...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or as I call it

Microsoft Hell.

You never had a choice. All those poor poor people using 7, or 8 are just deluding themselves, sooner or later they will join the Win10 collective and just get charged a subscription fee instead. Monthly. On their credit card.

You really think that all those patches are OS fixes? No, they are sneakily downloading 10 a bit at a time, all that mysterious drive activity is just the BORG slowly assimilating your system via "free" wifi and PC interlink nodes on USB slack space, Bluetooth, phone data, unused space on burned DVDRs etc. One day soon you will wake up and find 10 on your system. Hahahahaha. (sound of millions of PCs screaming in horror)