Bzzzt! If you're in one of these four British cities, that was a drone Four British cities have been picked as testbed areas for drone operators hoping to work out new business models for their wares. Tech quango-turned-charity Nesta – formerly known as the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts – has picked the cities for its Flying High challenge. London, Bradford, Preston and …
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Nossir. Not even slightly.
The London CTR is SFC-2500 ft on the 2017 ICAO 1:500,000 chart and the 2018 chart has not yet been published. This means that anything flying inside it MUST have explicit permission from the control center and must obey all applicable instructions from it.
The same will apply to all other class D airspace in the UK and other EASA countries.
"explore the public attitudes, environmental impact, logistics and safety of drones operating in complex urban environments".
OK, How about "<< TWANG >> That'll teach you to land on my lawn"?
Or Dronegolph - played with lengths of 4x4?
Or Dronekrikket played with lengths of 4x4?
Or "Ooooh, nice shiny - me keepy.
Or - this one's for the ladies - a high altitude pi**ing contest.
A while ago I saw what appeared to be a 'google earth' drone taking photos of the neighborhood. It made one HELL of a noise doing it, like a swarm of angry giant wasps or something similar.
Flying a few hundred feet in the air, it was noisy enough that I went outside to see what the hell was making all of that noise, looked up, and saw it hovering in one spot for a bit, then move a couple o' hundred feet, then hover for a bit more, etc.. yes, when it was near my house, I gave it the finger. Hopefully showed up in the google earth photo, ha ha ha.
Am I the only one wondering how these are going to be used for deliveries with current drone flight times of 30 minutes and 1.5 miles? They'll have to make some very big drones which then makes me wonder what the trade off is between weight of battery verses flight time versus amount they can carry, is it feasible or even possible to do?
No, you're not. It's another example of possibly great technology but nobody can think of a really good use for it yet. Drones will be really useful in remote areas for small deliveries where it's expensive and risky to employ people: think distributing medical supplies where there's an epidemic.
They're pretty bloody useless for delivering the shopping because they're going to depend on uncontrollable meatware doing the right thing to take delivery correctly. Much more reliable, easier and cheaper to deliver by drone to centralised post boxes and persuade the meatware to collect.
Drones and autonmous trollies will start delivering stuff in offices and factories because they're more reliable and cheaper than the post room: mate of mine recently reported that 19 out of 20 christmas boxes sent to one customer made it no further than the post room.
Elsewhere the military will continue to buy them in huge amounts for covert operations and surveillance, something at which they're really good at.
military will continue to buy them in huge amounts for covert operations and surveillance
What about using all those delivery drones. They are ready spies in the sky, back yard and bedroom. Think of all that lovely data that they'll get on each and every one of us and we won't know it.
There is a former council estate near me where they take great delight in flying drones and trying to down them by any means possible. It is a great sport for them. I expect that any drones that come over their homes they will be 'downed'. Well, they don't want snoopers seeing their 60in TV's and all the rest and with them living on benefits...
I wouldn't worry about people spying on you, I would be more worried that you have already been brainwashed. I bet you don't even know what current entitlement to benefits is. I also bet you haven't heard of Brighthouse where you can get that £800 TV (and many other expensive electrical appliances) for about £7 a week but end up paying £3000 for it, fun bit is that if you miss a payment they just take it back. There are also plenty of channel 5 documentaries to feed your echo chamber. It's easy to be swayed without knowledge, the wise man doesn't just believe what he see's but tries to understand why.
Excellent succinct comment from Charlie Clark. There are things drones are currently good for; some things they may possibly become good for; and a bunch of other fantastical whezes that will stop in their tracks when the practical day to day realities set in. Excluding the military, we've already seen exploration of the former category, with some good results: photography, surveying, film-making, search and rescue, large vehicle inspection, remote-region delivery of small urgent/high-value items—it'll become a longer list as time goes on.
Where drones will crash and burn (almost literally) is the inane concept of mass deliveries in dense urban environments. For brevity:
1. Unnecessary. Densely populated areas have the least need for separate door to door drone deliveries.
2. Hazard rich environment. Buildings, wires, poles, helicopters, unpredictable wind currents and gusts, cranes, hailstorm, other drones, window cleaners, lightning, masts, aerials, steeples ...
3. Probability of failure. To be viable, drone delivery requires low costs. This is incompatible with airliner levels of safety and reliability. If used in large numbers (the only way they'd make sense in such an environment) their accident rate will be high: engine failure, guidance failure, comms failure, CPU failure, sensor failure, camera failure, GPS failure, general nav failure, fuel exhaustion, software lockup, bug, EM interference ...
4. Target rich environment. Pedestrians, cars, schoolchildren, roofs, hospitals, level crossings, road junctions, skylights, giant glass sided office buildings, flyovers, playgrounds, prisons, dogs, cops, railroad tracks, transformers, gas stations, zoos, tramlines, ambulances, power lines, pensioners, satellite dishes, invalids, trains, other drones, ...
5. Outbreak of hostilities. Property holders and general purpose malcontents bearing shotguns, netflingers, goo-drones, falcons, slings, catapults, jetwash hoses, lasers, radio-hacking devices, EMP bursters, or, for low tech vandals already occupying high buildings, literally anything that can be lobbed out of a window or off a parapet into a drone's props (including self-destroying evidence such as a handful of icecubes) ...
6. Inefficiency of completion. Recipient not home, unable to sign, allegations of damage (inc by elements), theft of drone, failure to provide specified landing zone, exhausted drone won't go home, drop-box incorrectly configured leading to disputed delivery, neighbour couldn't receive item, disputes whether s/he received it ...
In sum, if mass drone delivery is attempted in a dense urban environment, quite apart from the very debatable cost-effectiveness/efficiency question, it's only a matter of time until people die, either directly from being hit on the head by a falling hardback of 50 Shades of Shyte, or indirectly because the truck driver's windscreen had just imploded/ambulance couldn't get there/the power was out/{enter scenario here}. The shitstorm of publicity will kill it in its infancy.
"No, you're not. It's another example of possibly great technology but nobody can think of a really good use for it yet"
There are loads of great uses. Deliveries to consumers makes the news regularly because its relatable to the masses but :
* Search and rescue : Slap an IR camera on them and send them off into the night looking for heat sources on a mountain.. Or a disaster area (This might be why they chose Preston :) )
* Police search/pursuit - much cheaper than the normal helicopter.
* Delivery of medical supplies/aid (as you mentioned)
* As noted in the article, inspections - Amey are looking at using them for bridge and lighting inspections on sections of motorway/Bridge crossings
As for the home delivery - People are already installing drop off points where delivery people can leave parcels securely.. A logical extension to this would be to have drop off point accessible from the air - A box with a remotely opening lid or similar, its not going to be suitable for everything obviously but average sized packages could easily be delivered.
The thing a lot of people seem to miss about the deliveries side of this is that the starting point for the drone doesn't need to be a fixed point.
Think about it, Parcel force ferry parcels to distribution centres where they are then loaded into a van and the driver goes from house to house delivering them, I think its conceivable that in the future the driver will simply need to get the van into the middle of a town/estate and sit there while the drones in the back of the van do the deliveries for the surrounding properties.
"Much more reliable, easier and cheaper to deliver by drone to centralised post boxes and persuade the meatware to collect."
Not even that other than as a gimmick. A single van, manual or autonomous, can deliver much more mass in a fairly short time with far more energy efficiency. Can you imagine the size of drone required to deliver a "monthly shop" or anything other than small, one off, items? And without some new infrastructure, autonomous delivery to the home is going to be...interesting. A human can look for somewhere to leave the delivery, eg a neighbour, or somewhere reasonably safe (yes, I know people have stories of moronic delivery drivers)
Am I the only one wondering how these are going to be used for deliveries with current drone flight times of 30 minutes and 1.5 miles?
It's still tech in search of a use. Those you mentioned are the small hobby drones. For delivery, something bigger is needed. It might just be to that a delivery truck with say 10 drones, goes to a set point and starts launching and recovery operations. When all the parcels in the truck have been dispatched, the truck goes either to a new waypoint or returns to the depot to be reloaded for the next waypoint.
This is definitely a "pie in the sky" thing right now with lots more work and thinking needed. So far, the only thinking has been from some who think "profit".
Round here they dont use tar mac to fill the pot holes, its Papier Mache - Or at least it looks like it, Spray it out of a big hose on the back of a truck, fill the hole in about 20s and leave.
The biggest problem is that whatever the substance ACTUALLY is seems to be less hard wearing than Papier Mache... as the holes generally re-appear with a few weeks!
I read this...
" along with a number of commercial operators, most having found drone regulation and policy can be a genuine barrier to business success. "
Policy, rules and enforcement have always been regarded as a barrier to business success. They cost money !!! In the case of flying drones, I'm in favour of a license to prove that someone has undergone some form of competence course. So if businesses genuinely don't want to have to hire trained people, (or train them up properly themselves) then that's a concern for me.
However, I'll grant that the rules around the proposed legislation of drones is still a bit woolly at the moment. I just don't want basic competence to be thrown out the window for the sake of business saving a few pounds.
This specific comment was in relation to trained CAA approved and insured drone pilots having to turn down work as the laws as they are or local council regulations prohibit some tasks from being done or make some tasks so difficult or expensive they are simply too much trouble.
A week or so ago a largish drone flew over my house at a moderate altitude, while I was in the back garden. It must have been a fairly ordinary day, because I immediately thought something along the lines of "what **** is flying that ***** thing over here. %%%%ers. I hope they *****ing well #####."
Thing is, I'm not sure how it managed to read my thoughts and so get real-time input into public attitudes. Perhaps it's hot-linked to the orbiting mind-control lasers? :-)
Surely there must be a growing market for end-user hunter-killer drones. I guess you could get a DJI variant and attach something to the bottom of it so as to be able to dive bomb a pestilent drone from above causing its rotors to snap - need to be mindful of just where it is hovering first obviously.
It'd surely be interesting for someone using FPV goggles to suddenly see another drone appear a couple of feet in front of theirs possibly bearing a sign stating "Fuck off or else".
These drones are going to put all the drug dealers out of business. Just imagine: ring your dealer and five minutes later a drone appears at the bedroom windows.
Also, if used properly it will enable places like St Kilda or the other Scots islands to benefit from same-day shopping deliveries from Asda or Tesco. At least I think thats a benefit...???
Having lived in the outer Hebrides I think that would be most welcome, However there are unique challenges that wont be faced on the mainland... The islands tend to be sparcely populated - it was a 40km drive to school and we didnt pass that many properties so range will be an issue.
Then you have the weather - there were days where we went out in the and the car had shifted sideways on the drive because of the wind.
If we are going to be using drones on the islands they are going to have to be MUCH more robust than anything available at the moment.
Deliveries by drones? Sorry, that's way beyond my capacity for suspension of disbelief, it's way too ludicrous.
The biggest part of the population lives/works in dense cities, not in nice little cottages with plenty of private landing space around. Someone please explain how a drone will deliver something to someone living in a high-rise? 5th floor left, now bring me that 6-pack (or pizza) I ordered, and be quick about it. Can't use the window though, not only do the neighbors complain about the horrible buzzing, it's also too small for a huge delivery drone to fly through, so what you're going to do? Fling my pizza through the open window for me to catch? There are reasons deliveries by catapult never caught on.
Also, most drones I've seen could easily deliver a (cold!) pizza, but drones capable of ferrying 12 bottles of mineral water (18kg) over any significant distance will certainly be more expensive than some underpaid guy and his old van.
Also, drones need a pilot. Which means that that sole unlearned and underpaid delivery driver get replaced by a dozen qualified and well-paid certified drone pilots with licenses to drive heavy cargo drones in an urban environment. I can already smell those savings.
Add that to the cost of replacing the rickety old delivery van with a dozen spanking new high-tech heavy-duty cargo drones, plus the special "control vehicle" that hosts pilots and parcels. They won't camp on the pavement, will they.
Last but not least, let's not forget the logistics of bringing the drones in range of each target (walking distance), while making sure they have enough juice to make the delivery and come back. You'll need a bigger vehicle, that's for sure, if only because now you'll need to drive parcels, crew *and* big drones across town. It's not like you can fly those things from your logistics centre way out in the sticks.
If all that isn't cheaper than one underpaid guy in an old van, I don't know what is...
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