It gets worse: Microsoft’s Spectre-fixer wrecks some AMD PCs Microsoft’s fix for the Meltdown and Spectre bugs may be crocking AMD-powered PCs. A lengthy thread on answers.microsoft.com records numerous instances in which Security Update for Windows KB4056892, Redmond’s Meltdown/Spectre patch, leaves some AMD-powered PCs with the Windows 7 or 10 startup logo and not much more. Users …
My family, three generations, use a lot computers which I, as a retired e-professional, maintain and update. We have a lot "older" computers, mostly all six to ten years old, which have been in full use: in working, studying in university and school - depending of the age of each user generation.
We could buy "the latest" shiny models, but we think that it is more ecologically and naturally also economically correct to use equipment till their end rather than throw them to worlds growing thrash piles. I have updated sw, increased memory, replaced HDD, and made fine usable computers from wrecks or "outdated" business laptops.
We have a couple of Acer and eMachine laptops and workstations running with 64bit AMD x2-processors, and they have been surprisingly powerfulbb and reliable as compared to new hp:s and lenovos. In normal browsing, streaming, writing - no user does heavy gaming, they have Sony PS's for that.
I really do not understand, when some people think that these fully sufficient and reliable machines are outdated and should be replaced with new ones - just because Microsoft could not write proper correction code, nor test it sufficiently before sending this "fix" to millions of computers compelled to install all Win10 fixes.
Or is this a campaign for just trying to sell more new computers (with new Windows licenses) to people, who don't actually need new computers - only they need working windows code in their "old" computers.
Regards,
An "old and outdated" grandfather who is pc-support-boy for his large family.
.
This is far more serious than a few old pcs being knackered. There are big financial costs, time costs and all the rest of it.
Old AMD machines have a habit of working very well and the are not constantly obsoleted by new wintel software. Mine were running Linux with a windows 10 disc in them for the hell of it and because it was licensed after being brutally updated from XP or W7. Now those old computers are completely useless for anything because I ran W10 to find out something about this problem. Too late, I now understand.
I can not back update the processors because they will not run. I have seen comprehensive diatribes on how to remove those windows patches. That is as much use as a chocolate tea pot if you can not run windows 10 on your bricked computer.
This is a disaster. What I need now is a list of old AMD cpus which will replace my bricked ones and are Wintel proof. Hopefully I can buy these second hand for almost nothing and get some work done.
Aim higher. Not 3.5.
4.4.
I assembled a machine with one for testing 5 years ago in my previous job. At the time that was the only thing which I could silence sufficiently to run under my desk while still being able to do interesting stuff at 10Gbit line rate in Linux userspace. I had to down-clock it to 3.7 because even the top end Asus motherboards at the time had issues delivering the required power. If you tried to run it at 4.7 it ran, but the board lit the red "power unstable" LED.
It doubled up as a nice heater for the office in winter too.
That, however, is not the model MSFT screwed up. They screwed up on the 2007-ish one. I find it surprising that there are beasts like that out there which run Win10 though as most of the motherboards from that time do not fully support UEFI and secure boot.
I have AMD hardware, and it's a Phenom rather than an Athlon, and I am very glad I don't run Windows
Because, when I looked this up, the particular core design was sold as both a Phenom and an Athlon
I am not sure if the afflicted users know or care about such nitty-gritty details, but just saying "Athlon" is perpetuating the confusion, and mistaking AMD branding for a chip ID is putting systems at risk
Perhaps. I'm typing this on my 3.80 GHz quad core AMD FX-4300 which I've always thought of as an "Athlon" but technically it probably isn't. The official naming gets a bit fuzzy.
It did however receive the out of band Windows 10 patch and it boots fine and (after checking) it still runs Crysis.
The problem with MS and Windows 10 isn't so much that you WILL get bricked. It's the constant worry that you can get bricked (at any time, no matter how inconvenient). Another example: Not daring to update Windows 7 any longer, just in case it installs Win 10 and ruins your PC. MS really has done a lot to remove any last remnants of trust that one could have had in them.
I use GWX Control Panel to prevent the update of Windows 7 to Windows 10. Works very well.
Security updates of Windows 7 can still be installed. I have 2 PC's on which I had to return from W10 to W7: one for screen problems (screen too small and no native resolution) a second for a blue screen that I couldn't resolve. By the way I don't like the ugly W10 desktop and I installed Classic Shell.
"I use GWX Control Panel to prevent the update of Windows 7 to Windows 10. Works very well."
I used it for a while, but Microsoft has stopped trying to sneak in the upgrade. I uninstalled the utility from all my Windows 7 systems long ago and haven't had a problem.
It's OK to come up for air now.
Up to you, of course.
"It's the constant worry that you can get bricked (at any time, no matter how inconvenient)" ......
With Windows 10 you can pause accepting any updates for up to 30 days, delay accepting security updates from 1 to 30 days and delay accepting feature updates for up to 365 days. Though if you choose to defer security updates for 30 days getting your PC bricked could be the last of your worries.
"Though if you choose to defer security updates for 30 days getting your PC bricked could be the last of your worries."
Paranoia. The vast majority of security issues are related to users running things they shouldn't run. I have yet to see a single virus detected (or stopped at any stage) by MS defender (or whatever it's called) on my machine.
Being bricked is sort of bad. Oh, Windows is saying it wants to update right now, as I type this! It doesn't say for how long it will disable my machine whilst updating. Nor any hint of the purpose of this update, or the extent of it. Typical arrogant MS.
As I was planning to actually use the PC right now, I think I'll just tell Windows Update to eff off.
"I've had to do a clean install twice due to microsoft updates. And twice I've had to play in the bios because, for some reason, it's changed the boot partition from my SSD to my other HD (don't even know how it does that)"I've had to disconnect all except my SSD to force Windows to install to the SSD. This week I forgot and Win7 installed over my Mint 18.3 partition on the HDD instead of the partition I'd selected!
I received this patch on Friday evening, without any action on my part, on one of the PCs in my house.
I regularly see one or more of the Win10 machines in the household receive patches days before the rest.
That never happens to the win7 and Linux boxes though.
All machines under my care are set to avoid Microsoft's espionage as much as possible. The machine that received the patch early even runs in a VM with a Linux host blocking pretty much all communication with the mothership because it's the machine I use.
I've now stepped that up to blocking all communication with Microsoft IPs. I'll have to rely on script blockers, anti-virus and an extremely restrictive firewall to protect my machine, as I can no longer trust their patches.
Welcome to the exclusive Guinea Pig program. You receive early updates with exciting functions -- it's fun for the whole family! I, for one, am grateful that you perform this very important role. Keep it up, and don't forget to yell at MS if you find any issues before Tuesday!
Welcome to the exclusive Guinea Pig program. You receive early updates with exciting functions -- it's fun for the whole family! I, for one, am grateful that you perform this very important role. Keep it up, and don't forget to yell at MS if you find any issues before Tuesday!
And at the end, there will be cake!
You're drinking the wrong kool-aid - yet another "news" outlet actually saying Meltdown and Spectre "are not bugs, all they're doing is abusing the normal function of Intel, AMD, and ARM processors."
https://www.csoonline.com/article/3245770/security/spectre-and-meltdown-what-you-need-to-know-going-forward.html
This post has been deleted by its author
"Why is it that I could predict these things happening" .......
Sadly it's a no win situation. Most non technical (and many technical people too) don't know if a patch is critical, pointless or potentially damaging so have no basis on which to accept or reject it. So either they follow the little security education they recall and say yes to patches or they don't bother with patching.
If you don't force security patches lots of people will never install them. My daughter is a prime example of this. In the Windows 7 days despite knowing she should patch she would always say "no" when offered a patch as she was only using the PC because she needed to use it at that moment, so didn't have time for a patch. When she gave me her malware infested machine to fix because it wasn't working I saw she hadn't allowed it to patch for over a year. At least with Windows 10 her PC stays patched, and as far as I can tell the forced updates are causing her little or no discernible grief.
MS made it so slow and painful to update that people stopped updating.
My experience of Linux on the other hand is the complete opposite. It doesn't tend to unexpectedly force a reboot on you either.
It's pretty simple: MS is fixing a problem of their own making by introducing forced updates.
> Most non technical (and many technical people too) don't know if a patch is critical, pointless or potentially damaging so have no basis on which to accept or reject it.
It's pretty hard to know whether a patch is necessary or not when the only information MS supplies in the list of patches is "this is a security update".
MS should be supplying full patch information in the windows update interface, not a generic message.
Microsoft used to give much better information on each patch (and I would read it and select which ones to install). I think this was on XP - I would even "hide" some updates which would prevent them from being installed or showing up in the list again.
Unfortunately, at some point, Microsoft apparently decided users didn't need to know what the patch was actually fixing and stopped giving any sort of information that would allow us to choose.
Why is it that I could predict these things happening back when Win 10 with forced updates was introduced, but MS couldn't?
Because you don't make vast wedges of cash from selling user-data to advertisers? It's remarkable how making money off something seems to switch off self-critisism..
Agreed bad, but you know microsoft will just spin the press .. "oh look at how many we've saved, the millions running our windows 10 with updates that don't brick won't be part of the worm spreading masses"
And this happened before .. remember the driver that killed gamers systems for keyboards and mice? Yet where do they go? .. back to microsoft to slurp up more free gruel. MMMMmmm thank you microsoft might I have some more?
FYI tell your friends, the first places Spectre related malware is likely to show up? .. those "download to see this movie" apps. We internet poor do love our stolen goods.
"FYI tell your friends, the first places Spectre related malware is likely to show up? .. those "download to see this movie" apps. We internet poor do love our stolen goods."
Quite right. I dont run AV at home, because I am the only one there and I dont do stupid shit like that. The machines I made for gf and stepson have plenty of AV , because they will click on anything.
If people could just learn to not download executables ( or to download them from a suitable URL ) everything would be fine.
In fact I think I will start imposing corporate lock down type policys on friends and family.
I had 4 AMD servers running 2008R2 and 2012 that showed a stop error after this patch. I managed to recover by starting Windows recovery (F8, repair my computer), opening command prompt and using this command below:
Dism.exe /image:c:\ /cleanup-image /revertpendingactions
Mileage may vary
I was silly enough to check the MS site for instructions. My first thought was system restore, but I figured MS would have any additional info.
NOPE!
All MS is providing is a link to a generic BSOD diagnostic guide. Not even a suggestion to simply roll back with system restore.
Interesting that update KB4056892 is designated a quality improvement update by Microsoft, with only passing mention of security (possibly including the specific issues) at all. It's one thing being a bit hush-hush about all this, but would be reassuring if users knew for sure they were protected as best they could be.
Is nobody answering that question?
Yes, several chips have multiple degrees of vulnerability for the issues... And Microsoft and Linux worlds can scramble to patch the issues via software, but...
CAN Intel and AMD design new chips without the flaws? Would they call it Core i3.1 or Core i4, or Core i6...?
Is it safe to say that Intel Roadmap have its place reserved on the trash bin, or at least delayed a whole generation to circumvent the design issue?
Did they stop making the faulty processors, or do they just expect the OS'es producers to completely fix the problem on the OS level?
Keep making the same processors with the same flaws is like keep making cars with Takata airbags to recall them later!
STOP DOWNVOTING ME! This is a valid question!
The fault is with Intel chips. The error is with all other types of processing using branch prediction (AMD, ARM etc). This speeds up computers, but introduces methods to break security. So new software or hardware is needed to make security stronger, or change the branch prediction logic.
Unless I am confusing Meltdown and Spectre there's something very wrong here.
1: Meltdown only affects Intel CPUs but it can be patched.
2: Spectre affects all CPUs but can't (yet) be patched.
3: There is a third AMD bug, which apparently needs physical access to the machine to exploit
So just what is the update supposed to be doing, because i am not sure it should even be trying to install on an AMD machine?
"KB4056892 is not your friend if you run an Athlon"
I have an AMD Phenom II X4 945 processor that's about 10-12 years old. The Windows update that Microsoft is offering me is KB4056894. I'm wondering if this processor is Athlon-related and whether this update is safe.
That's the Windows 7 version of the patch. It broke one of my laptops running an AMD Turion64 X2 CPU, but went fine on another running an Intel Core2Duo T7200. Be careful. The good news was that running the system repair sorted it out (from the F8 startup menu before the Windows logo pops up) - if you've not got a recent one, make a restore point yourself before trying the patch.
It's now a day later, the morning of Patch Tuesday; and I see that Windows Update is no longer offering me KB4056894. Looks like it got recalled:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073707/windows-operating-system-security-update-block-for-some-amd-based-devi
As of right now, Windows Update is showing me no "important" updates.
Not sure if the Phenom's are on the hit list, but casualties in my organization with AMD:
Ath 64x2 4450 - BSOD stop screen, could not repair - reinstalled Windows 7 and updates - still running
After learning of this brick through Windows:
Ath 64 x2 5200B BSOD stop screen - automatic repair fixed today
Ath 64 x2 4450e BSOD stop screen - automatic repair fixed today
Ath 64 x2 4450b - Unknown at this point - instructed user to not shut down at end of day so I could move data to another computer. Can't access remotely and it is not responded to WOL. I suspect the room it is located in has a blue nite light at the moment. I'll find the status of that machine when I go in tomorrow.
I read that a BIOS update is required to address the Spectre vulnerability. It can not be fixed in the OS.
Microsoft recommends the customer call their manufacturer for the BIOS update. Do pigs fly?
The Intel CEO should go to jail for what he knew and when he knew it. AND for selling a huge percentage of his Intel shares after he learned that the shit was about to hit the fan. Do pigs fly?
AMD and AMD customers should get a public apology from Microsoft for sending the meltdown patch to systems that did not require it. A full page ad in every newspaper (print and online). Do pigs fly?
Class action lawsuits filed on this matter should primarily benefit those computer owners who have systems that are more than 5 years old ($500 per system), not the lawyers. Flying Piggies LLP ?
That must be some pretty powerful BIOS sauce.
Will it rip out the branch predictor and install a new one?
The Intel CEO should go to jail for what he knew and when he knew it.
That CEO must actually be BRAINIAC. "Stupid engineers! My enormous computronium-based intellect foresees a fault in your design that can be exploited by exquisite cache timing measurements and that will bite us in the arse 10 years later ... SHIP IT ANYWAY!! MUAHAHAHAH! MY HATE SHALL YET BE QUENCHED!!!!"
(decimates the engineering team because punishment must be meted out no matter what)
Perhaps they didn't know. But do you HONESTLY believe they wouldn't ship anyway if they did know? Such extreme naivety! We are talking multiple billions of losses here if a processor line was completely withdrawn, and the top brass is BUSINESS people -not engineers with pride and integrity! Grasp this: Business people and sales people don't have pride in the products! All they ever worry about is money. OK?
Yeah... not like the German engineers that fudged engine performance during emissions tests in the US. Corruption is pervasive in society. Get used to it and try to rationalize why one should remain on the straight and narrow when lots of others are scamming. My excuse is Karma.
The analogous fix for Windows 7 (KB4056894) bricked my venerable Optiplex 740 (Athlon 64 X2), with a cryptic blue screen of death. Further, system restore doesn't work, failing with "unknown error code 0x8000FFFF". There's an elaborate fix for system restore (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2709289) that requires merging a hotfix into a repair disk via black magic.
Time to turn off Automatic Updates again... just when they're needed most.
By what I've read, AMD does not need Meltdown patch as it has only Spectre problem. Does not help victims of just freshly baked hot-fix but may be answers what is the root reason for crashing computers. M$ puts crap and honey in one barrel and guess what is the result ...
Yup, it showed up on my PC tonight, before Patch Tuesday, and a family member saw it and applied it dutifully, just like I told them they should always do. The Windows automatic startup repair would not work. I could use one of its options to rollback to the Restore Point it created before it installed and all is well now. And Check For Updates is now turned off.
This was an HP desktop. My Compaq desktop also has an AMD processor so I removed its power cord for now. Both are 10+ years old and started out on Vista but are running perfectly for the limited use they see.
Wow "wreck some AMD machine" instead of "wreck AMD Athon machine from year 2000", this way people who saw the headline and didn't bother to read the article will make assumptions that even Ryzen is affected which it does not. How does wrecking a EOL, less than 1% in the world be "gets worse"? Its like this example, it gets worse, the volkswagens cars is getting wreck, only the pre 90's era beetle. So stupid.
Well I'll try that one liner later today, but I'm not optimistic because i meddled with winsxs folder and disabled restore points.
I kept Windows on that old Athlon machine because it was convenient enough for a fileserver, video surveillance receiver, p2p file sharing, testing web apps on Windows server, and most of all for Oracle db I need for my faculty project.
If simple approaches for repair fail, I'll put in an SSD with Linux from an old laptop and conjure up some virtual machine abomination in order to run that Oracle server for a few weeks more. Anyways, there goes a few hours of my time, thanks a lot MS!
P.S.
My other machine which runs AMD Phenom II 1055T survived this Windows 7 patch with no problems.
My AMD laptop installed the patch automatically over the weekend, then immediately disabled the keyboard during the boot sequence, so i couldn't type the PIN to boot into windows.
I had to take my laptop back home (i was out travelling) and stick a USB keyboard into it just to type the PIN.
Well done.
It's time Microsoft and others learn that Software Development needs Engineering Discipline and strong Quality Assurance. Windows 10 shows much evidence of bad engineering. Marketing and Sales need to have their wings clipped and QA needs to have a much stronger voice.
And that applies to politics too; faceless corporation (faceless government - you cant call Trump & May real faces) antiquated hardware (government systems of all kinds) - all this is common with effective monopolies that fail to pay reasonable taxes - so how is that our fault that we the majority have no real choice.
"But you shouldn't be running such antiquated hardware anyways. So it's totally your own fault."IPCop runs on a 386 with 32 MB RAM. Heck, I published a book on that hardware and it's still doing useful stuff! Hint: if you get consigned to the scrapheap because you're "antiquated" you'll only have yourself to blame ;-)
If you use Windows always have a hot swap drive in reserve in case the system gets totally broken.
This got me out of trouble more than once when for no discernible reason a routine KB update hosed my system (black screen during startup).
Yet installing the same update on a fresh install then the hot swap drive worked fine.
Maybe undetected malware/drive corruption/etc ?
I have experienced many of the same problem described above including the error when trying to use the restore to an earlier time. However I did find on his machine, earlier restore points. Most of which threw up the same memory read error. However one from November ran right through and I thought it had completed, but has displayed this error message. http://www.http://speeednet.co.uk/images/amd.jpg Could be that the fix is preventing itself being changed or removed, so in essence what is the difference between this fix and a virus?
I am currently using Dart 7 to try and uninstall the hotfix, when it finally stops the spinning timer and kicks in.
on later AMD processors as I couldn't get it to install. It then went into a download loop reporting different error numbers (0x8024a105 was one of them) as it went. A quick Bing of the error messages directed me to the relevant support pages which directed me elsewhere.
Disabling anti-virus software (before my 3rd attempt at download/installation) did the trick and I lived to tell this tale. In my case there were 2 updates in this package and restarting the computer twice installed the 2nd update after the 1st one (separately), anti-virus having no effect on the 2nd pass.
HTH.
Completely Bricked. AMD 1800X, Asus Strix X370F, GTX 1070.
This is complete crap on Microsoft's part. I've never been so ready to bail on Windows than I am right now.
This "patch" completely bricked my PC. BSOD every time. I even pulled hard drives to drop in a fresh drive and tried to boot from a newly created windows 10 install USB. Still, I get the same BSOD errors. Which one of them, AMD or Microsoft, is going to replace by new door stop?
Did fresh 10 install on Phenom X2/8GB 12800 DDR3L/C650D machine with brand new SSD.
So far it seems to be working fine but did notice that the damnable atibtmon.exe error is back after one round of patches.
Could there be a connection?
I have yet to try it on an older system as it is in pieces due to the lack of a working graphics card and my 40" monitor being tied up with fecking This Morning!
(cough multipath hack with 3D glasses so I can use the TV at the same time /cough)
My older system is a Core 2 Duo T7300 running Intel/W7 x32 so shouldn't be affected.
Also two netbooks both Intel Atom based.
All I see is AMD this and that in regards to KB4056892, but many systems are affected including mine that houses an i7 5960x on a Gigabyte X99-SLI motherboard. The PC went into a boot loop. Fortunately for me I had made an Arconis backup on the 6th of January before this mess was released, so I went back, downloaded the tool to hide the update and also created a group policy windows update choosing option 2 which prevents windows from downloading updates without my consent, this only works on Windows 10 Pro. I contacted Microsoft and the representative told me that many systems are reporting similar issues across the board, so this is not an exclusive AMD problem...
Okay long story short the update killed my desktop and to format hard drive and reinstalled windows 10. After 2 weeks I hit the check for updates button in windows 10 and it wanted to install the update again with a windows defender update also. It did it's thing and installed the update, after it wanted to restart to finish but this is what I did different this time. I went and downloaded this update for AMD processors from Microsoft.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073290/unbootable-state-for-amd-devices-in-windows-10-version-1709
Downloaded and installed that update, once it finished it asked to restart, so then I finally restarted the computer.
It rebooted and booted right up, checked update history and it had the KB4056892 and the the KB4073290 installed successful.
So it will never try install it again.
Problem solved..
The Register 
Biting the hand that feeds IT
Copyright. All rights reserved © 1998–2024
