Guy Glitchy: Villagers torch Openreach effigy Bonfire night has come a long way since Guy Fawkes' failed attempt to blow up the House of Lords on 5 November 1605. Now, we prefer to burn more modern day villains. Such as Harvey Weinstein, Donald Trump and, er, Openreach. The good people of Templeton, Devon, in England, erected the van in protest over slow broadband speeds …
The guy who built it was on the radio this morning. Apparently he gets <700Kb download but companies are busy running a fibre cable down the middle of the village but not allowing anyone to tap into it.
I'm sure many of us have been in this situation, makes you wonder if the rural broadband millions companies have been getting for years are just being used to run the big cables through rural settings to urban centres with zero benefit to those who's roads are dug up along the way.
@Real Ale is Best "What utter lies. The truth is: Templeton is out of the way which makes rolling out fibre broadband unprofitable, and we won't do it unless forced bribed to with some lovely Government millions." FTFY.
I bet BT would find it was immediately possible all of a sudden (regardless of whether it was profitable) if some upstart competitor offered to cable up the village for a reasonable price, and subject that captive market to some badly needed competitive forces.
Competition? Yeah we've heard of it, and we stamp it out when we do.
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We've had that locally. A company called Gigaclear started burying fibre around Oxfordshire (although it seemed a little haphazard in places). BT (who've had no interest in installing FTTC) started chasing them around slapping "Infinity coming soon" stickers on all the cabinets.
In the mean time, we're trying to upgrade our BTnet leased line to a resilient one. We've been quoted £40k for the fibre to be pulled in from the Headington exchange. When we queried the cost we were told there's no existing fibre - a lie seeing as one of the neighbouring businesses already have what we're asking for (and with no excess construction costs). We were then told that all the fibre's been utilised, which while possible is highly unlikely. Unless of course Openreach blow in a single fibre at a time.
Oh yes, and we've been charged an extra £4.5k because our useless Local Business rep signed us up for a new contract, but forgot to remove the early termination fee.
I'd struggle to find a company who are so completely incompetent in almost every department as BT are.
"Oh yes, and we've been charged an extra £4.5k ... completely incompetent in almost every department as BT are."
Sounds like BT are quite competent at extracting money from you.
Was listening to a similar tail of woe from a BT customer signed up to annual billing the week before their planned switch to Virgin.
paulf: "I bet BT would find it was immediately possible all of a sudden (regardless of whether it was profitable) if some upstart competitor offered to cable up the village"
I bet they would also if their chairman or some exec happened to live there.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231991/BT-chairman-given-preference-Hambledon-broadband-internet-trial.html
If you have ever seen BT engineers at work (now THERE'S a tautology) then you will know that 1 mile of fibre cable laying takes the form of a calculation along the lines of (work capability) over (x cups if tea) multiplied by (weather + can't be arsed factor)
You are better off laying your own fibre cable to the nearest town and plugging it into the nearest cabinet. Don't worry - BT OpenRetch will never notice.
Whoa. Let's not put BT's engineers into the same category as their employer, please.
BT Engineers are like hen's teeth when trying to get one out to sort a problem (the threat of having to fork out over £100 if the fault is not BT's is a big deterrent for many people). But when you do manage to get one to come out to fix it I've found that the vast majority really do know their stuff and will not shirk getting the ladder out if needs be. I'm sure they would risk disciplinary action in some cases for going the extra mile, moving sockets and such when it isn't on the jobsheet.
We are in the next village but-one from them and - unlike Templeton - have done absolutely nothing to antagonise OR. Even then OR in their infinite wisdom sited our fibre cabinet nearly 2km out of the village. It sits in a very scenic spot, but only a couple of isolated premises get full fibre speeds from it, half the village gets a marginal fibre service, and the rest are stuck with less-than-great ADSL as it's a several miles to the exchange.
After their recent display of petulance I can see that OR's fibre cabinet site for Templeton could well be in the Scottish Borders! So maybe the good people of Templeton should look elsewhere than OR for a solution to their slow broadband!
I would imagine that copious amounts of the local hooch (aka Scrumpy) were involved on the night.
More like this please.
We (us tech heads) know that BT can even deliver FTTH via overhead lines if they put their mind to it but they don't seem to be in the slightest bit interested in doing that. They prefer to loose market share to the likes of Virgin Media (where available).
I have to hang my head in shame for the many days I spent working in Martlesham (When it was called that) when they were actually trying to bring their network into the late twentieth century. Then the accountants took over and it all went to pot.
@ AC
BT are now rolling out FTTP using overhead in some areas. We're one of those locations in rural Dorset - 5km from the cabinet but a reasonably well concentrated cluster of properties and we have a mainline station for that there London, so the demand for service is pretty high.
OverReich have been stringing fibre through the trees for the last 5 weeks, with a few sections where foliage density requires a return to underground conduit. We're hoping for a switch-on later this month and it will be full FTTP.
I shan't be getting rid of my Draytek Vigo 2860LN any time soon as I suspect I will be making full use of the LTE fallback capability at some point...... Trees being prone to fall over and tractors having an unerring ability to knock over telegraph poles in this neck of the woods.
Icon? Because we drink scrumpy in Dorset too (see tractor driving capability)
We're one of those locations in rural Dorset - 5km from the cabinet but a reasonably well concentrated cluster of properties and we have a mainline station for that there London, so the demand for service is pretty high.
I'll wager that a nice part of Dorset, with mainline access to London has more than a few well connected bigwigs, and that's why Openreach are doing it, nothing whatsoever to do with any "cluster of properties". Whereas Templeton, official capital of the Middle of Nowhere probably lacks well connected bigwigs who are part of the London establishment.
I live somewhere moderately rural, and considering the extent of rural fibre around here, it seems to me that the likelihood of Openreach putting in fibre is fairly proportional to the density of rich peeps' country residences. The sort of people who will be well connected in business, social and masonic terms, and if that's not 100% sufficient, the sort of people able to corral the local masses and run a semi-organised campaign to pressure Openreach.
"I'll wager that a nice part of Dorset, with mainline access to London has more than a few well connected bigwigs, and that's why Openreach are doing it, nothing whatsoever to do with any "cluster of properties". "
You'd lose your bet. Mostly agricultural workers, families on benefits and retired folk with the remaining 1/3rd working in jobs ranging from school teacher to Project Manager. A number are able to work from home by nature of their work but unable due to.... Elastic band. What we do have is a sense of community and a determination to ensure the kids in our village aren't left behind with their homework, the tried can Skype their families and the rest of us can stop blasting carbon into the air with our unnecessary travel footprint
but we're working hard to find alternative ways of bringing faster broadband to residents.
What, like transferring the packets by passenger pigeon?
Whenever I hear anyone employ the phrase 'we're working hard to' I automatically substitute it with 'we might eventually get round to'. You'd think that spokespeople would have learnt to avoid clichés, realising how empty they can make their statements sound.
Irrelevant. BT took an absolute fuckton of cash from the Government (i.e. the public) to solve this sort of problem and have so far failed to deliver on most of the performance metrics and/or KPIs contained within that not insubstantial contract.
I'm not surprised the peasants are in revolt, as BT have always been revolt-ing. Not good PR for them either... not that they care, as they are already at the bottom of the barrel and used to it.
The Scottish government has had to use its own cash (telecoms are NOT devolved) to bolster the offering up here. We have communities which are a darn sight more remote than ANYWHERE in Devon yet ScotGov is working with BT and others to get them broadband. Usually not with fibre, trialling signal towers and beaming data to and from hilltops/satellites.
Reinventing TV and radio towers for the 21st C. It took and effort to get folk in these places telephones, then electricity and finally TV and non long wave radio.
BTW mountain rescue tell you to ALWAYS bring a suitable paper map. Do not rely on devices when in the hills. In New Zealand (more remote places still) when out in the back of beyond you can hire satellite emergency beacons as relying on mobiles is just not a flyer.
There's a road heading inland to Central Otago from just north of Dunedin in NZ called the Pig Route. The youngest reports folk don't like driving it, will go out of their way on other routes (big detour) rather than drive it because it's a mobile black spot.
Back in the day when the arrival of our eldest was late we thought 'how can we move this along?' and a drive in our jalopy along said route to Ranfurly and Naseby and break down should do it. So we did, took until we were back on State highway 1 headed south back to Dunedin to break down (new alternator required, obtained with some help). Next day contractions started.
Modern types are whimps.
I was there the year parking meters were introduced to the town centre. At the parade down the High Street on bonfire night there were a group of 30 people dressed as traffic wardens carrying flaming torches and dragging a 12 foot high wooden parking meter on wheels behind them. Which they blew it up at the end of the parade.
I believe that the pyromaniacspeople of Lewes aren't above blowing the real ones up either.
I think most would be happy with 6mbs.With your logic, don't complain about the pollution when moving to a town or city. Want cleaner air, move out.
It's why I don't live in a city, and chose to go to a quiet city with an out of town campus for University instead of London/Manchester.
I do value logistics though, so I don't quite live out in the sticks, instead I have a happy medium, and have large amounts of woodland within a couple of minutes walk.
OTOH, Despite the posters going up over 4 years ago, I don't think OpenReach have fiber connections on our street yet. That's ok, Virgin do.
What bollocks! We have customers who run an office in a rural location called 'Just off Oxford Street in London' and they can only get 6Mbps ADSL and no FTTC. It's pathetic. I'm sure OpenWretch are 'working hard' to get them fibre.
We had other customers who were going to move from their current really rural location in Blackmore, Essex, where they can only get 1-3Mbps. WIth three broadband lines, it's still crap.
They were looking at a property in Stratford, East London. Near the Olympic park, near Stratford station, near the sodding main road. All they could get was 10Mbps ADSL. Utter shite. So they didn't move. The existing owner of the property lost out, our customers lost out and all because OpenRetch, with their maniacal love of copper, won't build out the country properly. All because the government thinks that a USO of 2Mbps or 10Mbps or even 30Mbps is acceptable in 2017! They'd rather build unnecessary rail routes and spend money on anything else.
What a shame I missed it. Openreach caused a three month delay to my project by being crap.
They had a to do a b-end shift and upgrade of a fibre line. They came and surveyed, made a date and then came back and did it. So good so far.
Then the service provider called and asked if we knew why Openreach hadn't been in? I said they had and it was working, albeit not re-provisioned to the maximum speed of the bearer yet. The provider went away to talk to Openreach.
Then we entered a twilight-zone where Openreach claimed point-blank that the line wasn't installed and if we were connected to any line it wasn't ours and we couldn't use it!
This went on for a few weeks and finally, after sending pictures, we managed to convince them that the line was indeed installed.
The provider went away to talk to the actual hardware owner to get the bandwidth changed. Then they rang in a panic saying we hadn't paid Openreach hundreds of pounds for 'excess-construction charges' and they were threatening the fabric owner. Needless to say this was the first we had heard of this.
Cue more messing around for many weeks until both parties got in touch to say Openreach had given up trying to collect after being told this was 1. ridiculous, 2. unprofessional and 3. they didn't have a signed order for these extra changes anyway.
TLDR: Burn a bigger one next time.
Prison? For setting light to a bonfire?
On Bonfire Night?
We're going to need some extra prisons....
He's got a point, but mainly for bonfire shenanigans in N.I. on the 12th. Three story bonfires situated often hairily close to local housing, being so close to a main road the occupants can feel the heat inside the car.
The last email I received is this when I asked why the delay.
Hello UKgnome
Very sorry for the long delay in responding to your enquiry.
Unfortunately I do not have encouraging news that brings an end to your frustration. The issue that has occurred is you are connected directly to the exchange, we cannot deliver superfast broadband by this method. So a cabinet has to be placed over your cable, so the copper and fibre services can be combined. For this to happen, among other things, all providers have to agree a timeframe for a short interruption of services.
I can only suggest you continue to keep an eye on the website and soon you will see it change from 'in scope' to 'accepting orders'
Regards
Ian Openreach
For this to happen, among other things, all providers have to agree a timeframe for a short interruption of services.
That's a new one on me. I can think of several reasons why installing a new cab is tricky and not 'cost effective' but outage coordination seems an odd problem. My original PCP was relocated earlier this year and there were two outages lasting less than a minute each. Now yes, they were during the day, but neither my phone nor my broadband provider notified me beforehand. So the most I can see BT doing is issue a planned maintenance warning as listed on the Zen status page.
I have no idea why the decided to answer my email - I just filled out an online form and then all of a sudden they started replying. I think they confused me for someone else maybe - UKgnome is a popular name in these parts.
Installing a new cab - disruption blah blah as all other providers have to agree - that is quite a weird response as it is a BT only exchange.
A network architect ought to understand the various options. Although apparently he works on N3 so maybe not ;)
If all you can think of doing is sit around waiting for the lumbering horror of Openreach then you're missing a trick. Other CPs exist, and the various altnet providers are experts at dealing with hard to reach areas. They can often go where openreach can't. Has anyone asked Gigaclear and friends why they haven't stepped in? Or perhaps wondered why none of the CPs seem able to upgrade that community?
I know everyone loves to jump on (or in this case set fire to) Openreach but they aren't the only company currently expanding superfast coverage. To say nothing of community efforts. If no-one at all has offered then there must be a serious problem to address.
Except that Devon CC rejected BT from the phase II BDUK tenders.
"Back in June 2015 there had been plans for a second phase extension of the original roll-out with Openreach, but hopes of a deal soon faded after the local authorities were unable to agree a mutually acceptable level of coverage and time-scale. At the time CDS said that BT couldn’t commit what was needed or offer “any reassurances that the 95% [coverage] target could be reached” (here)."
openreach was not going to touch those areas with a ten-foot bargepole after that (even assuming they were ever going to do this particular village). Gigaclear and Airband have stepped into the breach. So it's Gigaclear and Airband that the villages need to be petitioning. And/or Devon CC because openreach has already been told that it's not wanted.
I have had two separate occasions where BT have really let me down outside work projects, I've lost count of the number of project deadlines missed over the years because open reach failed to deliver to SLA despite time having been allowed for remedial works, fibre blowing etc within the plan. In the first case Openreach installed the fibre and cabinets locally (causing huge disruption for 6 months while they laid the fibre through the centre of town). BT then failed to open the postcodes for the sale of upgraded services. This was on a new development of a couppe of thousand houses just outside a rural town center. Even when I managed to talk to an engineering manager at BT, (using informal contacts of course) and he informed sales, they still missed out one postcode from the area resulting in some hilarity down at the local where one out of our group of 5 was still waiting for broadband 2 years later. On the second occasion they upgraded the infrastructure in the local exchange but took a further 18 months to lay a fibre from there to the village. We used to receive regular broadband outages caused by ploughing, the duck pond at the local 'big house' overflowing etc (yes really). I still was lyrical about the 17 - 22 MBps I now receive as its such a huge improvement over the 0.5 - 2 MBps I was receiving before.
My openreach story is that they came, laid ducts and left. When the next team came to put fibre in the ducts, they discovered that the ducting stopped 18 inches from the edge of all the pits.
Yup really.
cue 4 month delay until someone came out and did the ducts properly.
Not to mention that they delayed for 14 _years_ in even getting to the first step above.
I have never met a more unaccountable company than OpenReach. Even ISPs can’t get them to do anything. It’s like dealing with a Soviet government-run entity.
I live in NW1 and have had constant problems with my broadband that my ISP can’t resolve, and OpenReach refuses to speak to them without me taking on all the risk - hundreds of pounds it turns out - to diagnose their own problems.
Add to the fact that I see “SuperFast” vans driving by my house constantly yet I cannot order VDSL “fibre” broadband.
And you can’t call OpenReach. You might as well shake your fist at the sun.
Shocking shocking shocking. I despise this monopoly “company” with every fibre in my body.
Hehe, “fibre” - geddit?
Openreach FTTP creates a monopoly for BT
If you move to FTTP and don't have a copper line as well as fibre you will be given a new phone number. BT are breaching Ofcom rules because they can't transfer numbers from copper to FTTP or vice versa, nor can they transfer numbers between FTTP premises even when both locations are on the same exchange.
For those of us unfortunate enough to be on FTTP only (without copper) and having to use Fibre Voice Access (FVA) for voice telephony, you can't change provider because BT are the only provider to support FVA. In my opinion, from the emails I've seen between BT and Openreach, this was and is deliberate market manipulation to give BT a monopoly on provision of service.
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