ATM fees shake-up may push Britain towards cashless society

Thousands of free-to-use cash machines could be axed from Britain's high streets due to plans to cut fees that fund the network, banking industry group LINK warned last week. LINK has a strategy to minimise the impact to consumers due to a proposed reduction in fees over the next four years from around 25p to 20p per cash …

[wolfetone]

Cash will always be king. Just ask anyone who's lost a card and has had to wait a week for a new one to turn up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, in an increasing surveilance society

It's good to use cash to keep the big data crunchers in the dark on personal spending habits.

[TRT]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

If you can't scratch a window with it, I don't accept it.

[james 68]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

@TRT

If you can't scratch a window with it, I don't accept it.

So, say you bill someone £3,000 for your labours, you won't accept coins, notes or even pre-paid credit cards because you prefer it all in cubic zirconia or perhaps broken carbide steel drill bits?

I think you might be telling a little fib there.

[TRT]

Re: think you might be telling a little fib there.

I might also be quoting the late, great Douglas Adams.

[The Boojum]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

You're missing the point. I would have thought that, as a Reg reader, you could quote the entire works of the Lord Douglas Adams from memory.

[james 68]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

Heresy, I know, but I am of the opinion that the works of Douglas Adams are utter shite. I have read the majority of his books and they never failed to disappoint - much like Tolkien, good premise but bad execution.

But to each their own, different folks have different tastes and that's what makes 'em interesting. Being stuck in a room with people who have diverse tastes makes for much more interesting conversation than the conversational circle-jerk when everyone likes the same thing.

[Kiwi]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

Heresy, I know, but I am of the opinion that the works of Douglas Adams are utter shite. I have read the majority of his books and they never failed to disappoint - much like Tolkien, good premise but bad execution.

I'd demand you hand in your badge, but you don't yet have one! Here's an upvote to help you on your way then... :)

(I much prefer Lewis to Adams, and quite like Terry Pratchet as well. As to Tolkien, while I must read the 1st and 3rd of LOTR sometime, I found that the covers of #2 were a little too far apart. As to the Smilarilarion or whatever is is, I think even though I was trapped out in the country in an off-grid friends house for several days, try as I might, desperate as I was for entertainment, I simply could not get into that! Great book for insomniacs.

[james 68]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

Strangely enough I did have a badge, right up until yesterday, it was all silver and shiny too.

Makes me wonder if Mr Orlowski got a little stroppy because I commented that his latest HTC hit piece review sounded somewhat whiney and the admission that they're actually good phones was just tacked on the end.

TBH it carries little to no meaning so I can't say I actually care.

[Kiwi]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

Strangely enough I did have a badge, right up until yesterday, it was all silver and shiny too.

Makes me wonder if Mr Orlowski got a little stroppy because I commented that his latest HTC hit piece review sounded somewhat whiney and the admission that they're actually good phones was just tacked on the end.

I thought his main thing was having every post on the thread moderated (so you can't get in and change those typos you spot as you hit submit (not sure if you can do it from the "my posts" page or not, must try some time).

As a guess I'd say you dropped below 100 posts for the year, which IIRC was the requirement for bronze badges remaining. I need to post much much much less to put that to the test though...

TBH it carries little to no meaning so I can't say I actually care.

How dare you rag on our badges! Have a slap upvoteside the head in the hopes it knocks some sense into ya! :)

(some of us who're more "socially awkward" can use them as a guide to how much we're pissing people off I guess...)

[james 68]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

@Kiwi I have a simpler guide that works for me:

Have I communicated with anyone today? if yes then mission accomplished.

[Kiwi]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

@Kiwi I have a simpler guide that works for me:

Have I communicated with anyone today? if yes then mission accomplished.

That always helps. Reach out and touch someone.

Though with some I communicated with today, I want to reach out and touch them with a "modified" cattle prod, set to "extra crispy" :)

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

As to the Smilarilarion or whatever is is

Given that I first read LOTR age 9, followed by Silmarillion age 10, 11, 12 (that's re-reads, not how long it took me) I very much disagree.

My local librarian (this was in the mid-late 70's) was quite happy for me to read the books from the adult Sci-fi/fantasy section even though I was technically underage. The fact that I was reading 6-8 books a week might have had something to do with it.

I did get a few restrictions after my mum read one of the sci-fi short stories and realised that it was about people taking LSD but, in the main, I could read uninterrupted.

I still read 6-8 books/week - although now they are epubs read on my Kobo. My battery life is a *lot* shorter than 4 weeks!

[Kiwi]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

I did get a few restrictions after my mum read one of the sci-fi short stories and realised that it was about people taking LSD but, in the main, I could read uninterrupted.

Mum couldn't keep up. In fact I think that's why they got me my first bike, so I could ride to the library myself and get books there. She also was an avid reader though. When I'm taking a break from electronics and those ape-shaped fleshy things that think "you should socialise more" I can get through 300 pages in a day no trouble. Might be 400, has been a while since I've done it (wonder if I can find a cheap tent for a weekend away)

I did try Silmarillion but just never got through it, probably not even the first chapter. But that said, like I said I was stranded and off-grid - staying at a friend's farm during a winter storm which took out a section of road and also power lines. No snow even. He only had a few books there. The situation was rather stressful which may've made the opening to Silmarillion a lot harder to get through.

(Actually it was where I got my intro to Narnia - had The Last Battle there which was what got me into reading the rest, also where I read The Two Towers - maybe a little long but OK - also liked The Hobbit as a kid (but absolutely HATED the movie, only looked at the first 45mins or so and couldn't get any further!) - maybe it's time I tried to get through them all again :) )

--> Icon - closest we have to "bookworm" in appearance.

[RyokuMas]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

"If you can't scratch a window with it"

Great, if I ever owe you money, you're getting it in pennies... :P

[Rob Daglish]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

A friend of mine once did something very similar: He was a bus driver, and had a passenger who would get on every day with a £20 note for something like a 10P ride, so it used up most of the driver's change on one passenger (who would arrive the next morning with another £20, and no sign of the previous day's change...) Eventually my mate got totally hacked off, and got £20 worth of 1P coins from the bank - passenger gets on, he goes through the whole "do you not have anything smaller" routine for the umpteenth time, and was handed a couple of bags of 1P coins... And the next morning, he turned up with the correct change!

[TRT]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

I believe there's some shizzle about legal tender which is supposed to prevent this sort of thing. And IIRC, I believe the 20p or was it £1 coin was never included in the appropriate Act, thus making it legal tender to settle, say, Amazon's tax bill in coins.

[Tom 38]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

I believe there's some shizzle about legal tender which is supposed to prevent this sort of thing. And IIRC, I believe the 20p or was it £1 coin was never included in the appropriate Act, thus making it legal tender to settle, say, Amazon's tax bill in coins.

Any coin with a face value below £1 has limitations to the quantity that can be used as legal tender.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I believe there's some shizzle about legal tender

Yes there is. I once sent a council a box of coins to pay a parking ticket. It was returned to me with a photocopied page explaining how it wasn't legal tender. Not only that but I'd now missed the deadline for the discount. Yes I am a ***

[Reue]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

'Legal tender' is only relevant to paying court debts. It has nothing to do with what a private company can/will accept as payment. The bus company ought to have refused payment of a 10p fare with a £20 note.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

Not quite. "Legal tender" is what legally HAS to be accepted to pay off a debt.

Since you pay before the start of the bus ride, the company can accept or refuse whatever it likes as payment..since no debt has occurred.

However, if you paid at the end of the ride, you have a debt to the bus company, and they legally have to accept what is defined as "legal tender" in addition to anything else they accept.

[Version 1.0]

Re: Also, in an increasing surveilance society

I'd check those £20 notes ... they may have been printed at home.

[GBE]

Bus drivers give change?

Here in the US, if you get on a bus with only a $20 bill, you either turn around and get off the bus or you get a $20 bus ride. [Unless one of the other passengers is kind enough to give you change.]

[Kiwi]

Re: Bus drivers give change?

Here in the US, if you get on a bus with only a $20 bill, you either turn around and get off the bus or you get a $20 bus ride. [Unless one of the other passengers is kind enough to give you change.]

Same over here. I even got on a bus where the driver was saying "Exact change, get off, or get no change" - very loudly and not very politely (was evening rush hour, he was getting behind schedule, and the number of people giving him large notes for short trips was taking his little remaining change and costing him even more time)

[peterm3]

Access to cash is pretty hard if you've lost your debit / cash machine card.

I think most of the supermarket chains let you get "cashback" which I used much more than ATMs in the UK.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think most of the supermarket chains let you get "cashback" which I used much more than ATMs in the UK.

I'm missing something.... cash back from what? the debit card that you lost?

The UK doesn't still support those horrible paper "cheques" does it?

[YARR]

"cash back from what?"

Your shopping bill paid for on debit card. The amount of cash back you request is added to your bill by the checkout operator, and paid to you from the till. There is no extra charge for cash back, so it's the cheaper option if the only available ATM is one that charges.

It seems that "cashback" is also confusingly used for schemes where a % of credit card processing fees is paid back to the purchaser.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "cash back from what?"

peterm3's post went

"Access to cash is pretty hard if you've lost your debit / cash machine card.

I think most of the supermarket chains let you get "cashback" which I used much more than ATMs in the UK."

I think the context was missing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cheques

"The UK doesn't still support those horrible paper "cheques" does it?"

The funny thing about those "horrible" cheques is they let you pay a third party large sums of money without them having to carry around and be registered for a card machine and without you having to have a wad of cash at hand. The only people who have a reason to get rid of them is banks because it still requires humans to process them. Anyone else who is ra-ra-ing for the end of cheques is either a Bank shill or a mouth breathing halfwit who's fallen for the Banks "cashless, chequeless society is good for you" spiel hook and line.

[chivo243]

Cash just in case

I always keep some cash on hand. Some places don't accept anything but cash, and there are some places I'd rather not use my card too.

[gv]

Re: Cash just in case

My local fish and chips establishment being the most critically important example for cash only transactions.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Cash just in case

"My local fish and chips establishment being the most critically important example for cash only transactions."

Mine takes cards noiwadays, and unlike many small shops, doesn't charge a 50p handling fee on top. While that 50p charge is allowed, I can't see us going cashless if all I want is a 70p chocolate bar that has a 50p card handling charge added to it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cash just in case

I can't see us going cashless if all I want is a 70p chocolate bar that has a 50p card handling charge added to it!

You and I may not want a cashless society, but the payments processors do (because they'll take a cut), obviously the likes of GCHQ and HMRC do, but most of all so does government, because if they can do away with cash, then they believe they can collect the c£1bn of VAT that is evaded through cash-in-hand transactions, and they may even be able to tax crime (because crime will still occur, it'll just be laundered as some business transaction). Take the UK recreational drugs market - estimated about £4-10bn, so making that cashless, and forcing it to pay VAT when the money is laundered sees another billion quid of VAT for HMT to waste. Prostitution, trafficking, extortion, fraud - all of these would need to be cashless, traceable, and therefore disguised as some form of retail transaction.

[Rimpel]

Re: Cash just in case

Come January all retailers are banned from charging surcharges for using a debit or credit card. Unfortunately this means your 70p chocolate bar will now cost £1 but at least you won't be penalised for using a card...

[TRT]

Link ATM?

Instructions for use:

1. Insert Card

2. Battle your way through to the level boss and rescue Zelda

3. Remove Card

4. Collect reward from cash dispenser slot

[Boothy]

Re: Link ATM?

My favourite level is the one that repeats a question already answered.

For example...

1. Services offered: Balance check, Cash with Balance check, Cash without balance check...(other services).

2. Select 'Cash without balance check', as I already know how much I have in the Bank.

3. Next screen: 'Would you like to check your balance? yes/no'.

4. Erm, is this a trick question? As I already told you I don't want a balance check!

5. Select 'no', can now enter cash amount and continue.

The designers of the UI really ought to get a basic handle on good interface design practices, i.e. don't ask the same question more than once, (except when it's something you can't recover from, like deleting an account for example, 'Are you really sure?').

[knottedhandkerchief]

Re: Link ATM?

There's a reason for the prompting of checking your bank balance. "Free" cash machines at places other than banks (i.e. Link) get a small kickback from the balance checks (as well as from providing the cash). That's what pays for its existence.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Link ATM?

Try US petrol pumps.

Insert card,

Do you have an air miles card Y/N ?

Would you like to sign up for an airmiles card Y/N ?

Are you sure, they are very nice Y/N?

Are you really really sure Y/N ?

Do you want a discount Red Bull Y/N

Car Wash Y/N

.

.

Still not as bad as the ones with a screen that start playing daytime-TV at full volume as soon as you lift the nozzle. It's a bit weird to be filling your car and have the pump scream "Hemorrhoids? You should try new xanthitikilax" at you.

I'm feeling better now, just need to have a little lie down.

[TRT]

Re: Link ATM?

Sainsbury's self-checkout -

Do you have your own bags?

- No

*scan, beep, scan, beep, finish*

How many bags have you used?

- 0

How do you wish to pay?

- Card

Payment accepted

Voice prompt:"Please take your bags."

*Inward screaming*

[Dominion]

Re: Link ATM?

Sainsbury's self-checkout -

Do you have your own bags?

- Yes

*scan, beep, scan, beep, finish*

How many bags have you used?

- 0 (I fucking told you I had my own bags!)

How do you wish to pay?

- Card

Payment accepted

Voice prompt:"Please take your bags."

*Inward screaming*

[TRT]

Re: own bags? My experience...

Sainsbury's self-checkout -

Do you have your own bags?

- Yes

Please place the bags into the bagging area.

*Places bag, waits*

Unknown item in bagging area.

*removes bag*

Please place your bag into the bagging area.

*Places bag, waits*

Thank you.

*scan, beep, put item in bag*

Unknown item in bagging area.

*removes item*

Please place the item you have just scanned into the bagging area

*places item in bag*

Unknown item in bagging area.

*removes item and bag. Places item.*

*Flashing red light and alarm noise*

Please wait for assistance.

Ffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu..........

Every. Single. Time.

And experience has shown that once you've told it you have your own bag, there's no way back to the start to tell it you don't have your own bag, after you eventually decide that trying to weigh your own backpack that you're trying to load your lunch into is beyond the capability of the scales and that you'll just put them into the back pack post-purchase rather than AS you buy them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: own bags? My experience...

"And experience has shown that once you've told it you have your own bag, there's no way back to the start to tell it you don't have your own bag"

The whole weighing the items scenario is utterly pointless. If someone is going to nick something they'll already have hidden it in another bag or in their coat, they're not going to scan it then conceal it or just stick it in the bagging area unscanned so whats the fucking point?? The only time you need to weigh something is for fruit and veg and that has its own seperate scales anyway.

These self checkouts had a UI designed by people who apparently still have mummy shopping for them with code seemingly written by the cheapest 2 bit outsourcing firm they could find.

[LHGFLICOD]

Re: own bags? My experience...

Or commit carrot fraud.

[Kiwi]

Re: own bags? My experience...

The whole weighing the items scenario is utterly pointless. If someone is going to nick something they'll already have hidden it in another bag or in their coat, they're not going to scan it then conceal it or just stick it in the bagging area unscanned so whats the fucking point??

What really gets me with them (enough that I don't shop at Pak'n'Save any more, and never will enter another of their stores - yes these things DO matter!) is when I have scanned an item and put in down in the "bagging area", then my mate picks it up and puts it into a bag. Or I pick a full bag up to move it so I can get another bag. And the bloody machine basically accuses me of stealing, calls for assistance etc etc etc. If I wanted to steal the items I WOULDN'T HAVE SCANNED THE BLOODY THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!

(Thankfully not all companies are like this, and I usually prefer "the human touch" anyway, only using the automated systems when I have to or when the checkouts are heavily loaded or seriously lacking in eye candy...)

[silks]

Re: Link ATM?

The ATM operator receives a fee for every balance enquiry which is paid for by your card issuer so they're incentivised to push that service.

[phuzz]

Re: Link ATM?

I was using a newer Link ATM recently and it seemed to be offering me UI customisation options. There was a queue so I didn't investigate further, but if I get a bit of time with that machine I'll have a look and see what it offers. In theory there's nothing stopping them from allowing customers to set some preferred default options like "withdraw £30 without a receipt or checking the balance".

[TRT]

Re: Link ATM?

That would be very useful for accessibility options. Switch to inverted colours, large fonts, reduced clutter etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Link ATM?

I certainly wouldn't object to playing a quick game of Space Invaders while the machine decides what it's supposed to be doing...

[PB90210]

Re: Link ATM?

Abbey Nat CASH machine - Instructions for use:

1. insert CASH card

2. enter PIN

3. select CASH

4. select amount of CASH required

5. select account to withdraw the CASH from

6. select CANCEL AND RETURN CARD as the machine has just figured it has no CASH

7. move to next machine

8. GOTO 1

You've got one job to do!!!... OK, balances... and payments... and cheque books... but you've just got one job!!!

(got a £25 'Sorry' from them after taking up half a page of their complaints book)

[Bloodbeastterror]

They just never give up trying to screw me for my own money. So the benefits go to whom? The shareholders who already have so much already that they have enough spare to invest? Just how many bloody speedboats do you need to waterski?

[BoldMan]

> The shareholders who are our pension funds which we need to perform as well as possible so we can afford to retire...

Fixed that for you!

[Tom 38]

The benefits go to you. Your bank has to pay for your access to ATMs that do not belong to it, and the LINK network sets out various interbank charges that apply for various services.

Ever used a non bank ATM, and found it is hard to get cash out without also seeing your balance at some point? The operator of the ATM receives something like 75p for each balance statement, which is sufficient to make these ATMs quite profitable, leading to every newsagents having one of these shitty ATMs inside.

The aim of these charges was to make it promote ATMs in rural/remote areas, but has actually lead to an increase of ATMs in built up areas where there is already adequate supply. By reducing the interbank charges it makes these ATMs less profitable and will reduce both the number of ATMs in high density areas, and the cost to banks for servicing their clients cash needs.

You would hope they will also replace the higher charges for subsidies for ATMs in rural/low ATM density areas.

[Doctor Syntax]

Be careful what you wish for

The banks might think they can save money by cutting back on ATMs. They could be caught out if it results in queues in banks for an RTP (Real Teller Person).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Be careful what you wish for

RTPs???

My Barclays bank i na city has replaced nearly all of them with an ATM+ machine. To get to see a RTP you have to speak to the wandering assistant/bouncer who will try as much to dissuade you as possible then place you on a chair for about an hour before telling you to come back on a less busy day.

Once you do get to see someone they will tell you they can't help/require different details/must do it online.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Be careful what you wish for

Whats a bank? Is that something you have to travel 10 miles to find?

[paulf]

Re: Be careful what you wish for

They've been busy making it progressively harder to do business at the counter with a person, as they add more ATMs into the branch. A few years ago my local branch of $MEGABANK boarded up 4 out of the 7 service windows it was fitted out with when refurbished about 5 years earlier. The new boarding was painted in corporate colours but it just makes it look like a failing shopping mall trying to cover up the fact it has lots of vacant units. The teller desks and computers etc are all still in place behind the hoarding but with no way to serve us meat bags.

The deposit machines work well (and a copy of the paid in cheque on the receipt is useful) but until the machines dispense fivers and coins I'll keep using the the counter for withdrawals - I tend to use cash for smaller purchases so a wallet full of twenties is sod all use!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Be careful what you wish for

Fifties I'd understand, but I don't recall having issues paying with twenties anywhere in the past 10 years at least?

[Kiwi]

Re: Be careful what you wish for

I tend to use cash for smaller purchases so a wallet full of twenties is sod all use!

I used to get a large chunk of cash from a shop each payday. The teller preferred to give me the smaller notes than larger ones, for the simple reason that it's easier for him to count 50s at the end of the day than 2s. I often came away with a HEAVY wallet. So you could make it easier for a few by giving them a 20 (when they're quiet enough to have time to count the change) and from them you get the change for the rest of your day.

[iron]

If anything I'd like more ATMs, not less.

I still use cash on a daily basis. The shop I buy my lunch from does not take cards, nearby corner shops either don't take cards, require a minimum transaction of £10 or charge a fee for processing cards. And, as the article notes it is much easier to control spending when you can actually see how much you're handing over and not just blindly type your pin into a machine.

[Blotto]

@iron

I find change not disappearing (dropped out of pocket on bus, in car, office, sofa etc) is a useful way to save some cash too, which is why most of my spending is on a card.

[Red Bren]

Not just change. These new plastic notes are as slippery as hell and seem determined to slither out of my pockets

[PNGuinn]

These new plastic notes are as slippery as hell

And tend to stick together, so it's easy to pay someone £20 in 3 or 4 tenners.

So fold 'em properly.

You'll have to do them individually, and will need a flat hard surface and a strong finger nail, but it can be done,

What we need is a small round readily pocketable metal object to rub firmly down the fold.

Could make a suggestion, but some fruit'd only patent it.

[terrythetech]

Re: These new plastic notes are as slippery as hell

I screw them up as I get them in the hope that

a) They won't try and escape from my pocket

b) They will wear out quickly and be seen by TPTB as a bad idea

On the plus side (yes there is one) they seem to survive the washing machine quite well, but not so well liquid nitrogen or fuming nitric acid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMwThGTYT2o) so probably best to use ordinary washing powder.

[Anonymous Coward]

"They could be caught out if it results in queues in banks for an RTP (Real Teller Person)."

My main Barclays branch uses ATMs for all functions if you are a retail customer. One counter teller for "commercial " customers - and a couple of hovering bodies to help people use the ATMs. There are face-to-face staff but you only get to them if you are negotiating a loan or something out of the ordinary.

Trying to get a quantity of £1 coins from them before going to the school fete has proved near impossible. It is easier to make small purchases in the supermarket and then asking for change in £1 coins in place of the obvious notes.

[TRT]

Bit like London Underground then.

[Anonymous Coward]

£50's

I find it strange you can't withdraw £50's from the cash machine. Going in to the bank is a pain.

[TRT]

Re: £50's

I hadn't considered that. My butler always hands me my wallet of freshly ironed £50s as he opens the door for me on my way out in the morning.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: £50's

>I hadn't considered that. My butler always hands me my wallet of freshly ironed £50s as he opens the door for me on my way out in the morning.

I used to be that poor, I pay for everything in flawless diamonds now and the smallest change I have is one carat. My team of personal female Amazonian bodyguards carries them.

And to think at one time I used to work down pit for 25 hours a day and pay owner permission to come to work. Tell the youth of today that and they'll never believe you

[Pen-y-gors]

Re: £50's

No-one trusts £50s - mainly used by drug dealers and forgers. Our village shop won't accept them without a very good excuse.

[Steve K]

Re: £50's

..without a very good excuse

...like "I'm a drug dealer/forger/the KLF looking for a light"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: £50's

"No-one trusts £50s - mainly used by drug dealers and forgers. "

i.e. (see post above) the only non-bankers who can afford butlers these days.

[peterm3]

Re: £50's

The ATMs at Canary Wharf have £50s, think most of the bankers there withdraw £500 before going out for the evening. Not everything a banker needs can be bought on card!

[TRT]

Re: £50's

"Not everything a banker needs can be bought on cut using a card!"

TFTFY

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: £50's

"The ATMs at Canary Wharf have £50s, think most of the bankers there withdraw £500 before going out for the evening. Not everything a banker needs can be bought on card!"

And in some university towns, some cash machines still have fivers in them and have the option to withdraw just one fiver. How the other halves live, eh?

[Philip Stott]

Re: £50's

Try the cash machines in Canary Wharf - you have to ask for an amount that isn't a multiple of £50 to get anything other than £50 notes ... which is great until you try and get a taxi home!

[Boo Radley]

Re: £50's

The Wells Fargo ATMs in my small Texas town give out $50 notes. Much better when withdrawing $500 at a time.

[Richard Jones 1]

No batteries

At least neither cash nor plastic need a charged battery - with cash also not needing a working network to accept the transaction, a problem in some areas. So some people feel happier having more options available. Dealing with trivial payments via some form of month end account can be a real pain for many. I understand that for others it may just as well be an asset to have an electronic record. Some of us remember the days when just one card type might be accepted - never the one you had at the time and painful memories can linger on.

I have no down on anyone using their method of choice, I embrace empowered choice. Compulsion is different thing and that is the one I hate, almost as much as my wife hates 'SMART phones'. I have one it is smart enough to know I want to do something and frequently clever enough to stop me achieving the option in a timely manner. For me plastic and cash are rather easier and provide me with comfort.

Cashback was always said to provide comfort to the retailers who offered the function as it moved physical cash, which needed manual handling into an electronic form simplifying their book keeping.

[Anonymous Coward]

My partner hates me..

Cause I never carry cash and our favourite take away doesn't take cards! (At first she thought i did it intentionally)

Saying that, I was standing on the train platform in London the other day, heard some guy say he doesn't trust online banking and heard another person respond they don't trust banking phone apps, they still do everything in branch (these people were probably in their 40's)..

I'm not much younger, so was quite surprised about that.. my first thought was "bunch of luddites", but then in hindsight, I realised this was a case lack of education and understanding of online safety and basics of how devices get infected..

I'd hope the newer generation do better, but judging by how my son treats online privacy, I'm seriously doubting it!

[TRT]

Re: My partner hates me..

I overheard a woman on the train doing her online banking. Well, it was hard not to. If I had the mind to, I'd have had her name, address, date of birth, account number and last balance within two minutes.

[K]

Re: My partner hates me..

Surely thats phone banking? Unless you were intentionally staring at her screen. On a similar note, my boss saw a civil servant log into a "classified portal", password was something like 12345 (Same as the president has on his luggage).

** go watch Spaceballs if you don't get it!

[TRT]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

I couldn't overhear her phone's screen now, could I?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

@TRT

Your wrote " overheard a woman on the train doing her online banking"

So, unless she was talking to her phone screen, or talking to somebody on the phone, you never overheard then, you saw

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

Your wrote " overheard a woman on the train doing her online banking"

But that's why I hate voice-recognition phone systems that don't give a touch-tone option.

Not everyone around wants to hear me shouting "Abattoir! Abattoir!" into my phone.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

"So, unless she was talking to her phone screen, or talking to somebody on the phone, you never overheard then, you saw"

Maybe she was one of those people who can't type or write without also saying it out loud (or at least mumble it).

[TRT]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

@AC. fair point that there's online banking and phone banking, but she was actually resetting her online banking login credentials by talking to someone real and providing sufficient identification information to satisfy them that she was who she said she was. My point was, though, that people are sometimes quite blasé about their "secret" information.

[Tom 38]

Re: Surely thats phone banking?

Your wrote " overheard a woman on the train doing her online banking"

So, unless she was talking to her phone screen

I have literally heard this monologue on the commuter trains:

"Hmm, what is the 6th letter of my security code?"

"p-a-s-s-w-0 ... 0!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: My partner hates me..

Luddites? I'll leave this here.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/03/uk_bank_security_audit/

[tiggity]

Re: My partner hates me..

I'm with the no online banking people, be it app or website.

Many androids never get any security updates, vendors that do provide upgrades stop them after a while, so nearly all non rooted androids soon insecure.

Apple devices, better on security updates, but often users do not add them as they often mean an "upgrade" which can cripple performance of old phones.

PC - I CBA to check how many zero days there are each year, but plenty.

There is no such thing as a secure device, so always a small element of risk.

Given how, when "cash" goes missing due to fraudulent activity, the banks love to blame the customer rather than the crooks, then sensible option to eschghew online as, if it something crooked happens you may end up out of pocket.

Happily for me banking aps do not work on rooted phones (in catch 22 logic as the whole point of rooting is to allow yourself to do / install things that increase security!)

..No surprise I mainly use cash! (Though not a fan of the shiny new 5 and 10 notes, anyone would think they were designed to be super low friction and easily get lost to discourage cash use - have to scrunch up new ones lots to remove their slippery eel behaviour).

Mainly using cash is good, it works when things go, unexpectedly, wrong, went for a pub lunch a while ago (a place a few of us often visit) and phone line was down so they could not do cards, because I had cash I could pay for mine and (card only) friends meals & drinks.

[Keith_Rhodes]

Re: My partner hates me..

"went for a pub lunch a while ago (a place a few of us often visit) and phone line was down so they could not do cards, because I had cash I could pay for mine and (card only) friends meals & drinks."

What's the rule in the UK, nowadays, when a technical problem means that a merchant cannot accept payment by card? It could happen that I only have about a tenner (give or take a fiver) on me and a couple of cards. A group of four people could easily run up a bill of a hundred quid over a few drinks and a bite to eat.

I imagine that if the phone line was down before you order, the person in charge should warn you and if you order knowing that you don't have enough to pay cash, you'd be guilty of something like "obtaining by deception". But if the line goes down after ordering, then what?

[Ellipsis]

Re: My partner hates me..

Surely you just stay and wash dishes all night write them an IOU and then go back (or phone them up) and pay by card once their system’s working again?

[Pen-y-gors]

Re: My partner hates me..

Despite being a fully-unpaid-up Luddite , I do online banking - but only from one computer at home. Via WiFi when out? I think not. On my phone with an app? Oh come on - I prefer to spend my own money, not delegate it to some Ukrainian.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: online banking - but only from one computer at home.

Similarly here, but I also have a dedicated user account which I *only* use for online banking.

[K]

Re: online banking - but only from one computer at home.

Whilst I hate admitting this - I do use the phone apps, it's made my life sooo much easier, especially when managing multiple accounts.

At the end of the day, even if somebody managed to get into the account, they can't transfer any money without setting up a new payee, which requires my card and my reader.. in addition, when ever anything is set up or moved, I'm sent a notification.

I let my missus look at my account, so I've got nothing to hide... that stuff goes on a credit card from a separate bank ;)

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Re: My partner hates me..

I wouldn't use mobile banking apps either, despite having a secure Android device..

'Basics of how devices get infected'. Android's marketplace is better than it was, but still not perfect. Many apps are updated on a weekly basis, or even more frequently. It only needs one app to be infected by a trojan.

Banking websites I try to use on a secure platform, using a decent browser, and no other tabs open at the same time (in case there's a missed x site scripting exploit).

I'll happily use contactless - a great invention, but it's currently capped at a sensible thirty quid. If the limit was higher I'd get it disabled for my cards.

[ad47uk]

Re: My partner hates me..

It is not possible to disable contactless,, well not officially anyway and a lot of banks will chuck contactless cards at you and will not give you an option of not having them, thankfully my banks does, at the moment anyway.

[Tom 38]

Re: My partner hates me..

It is not possible to disable contactless,

My bank kept sending me contactless cards, but they all turned up cut down the middle. Weird, huh?

[PNGuinn]

"If the limit was higher I'd get it disabled for my cards."

Good luck with that. SnotWest agreed - with very bad grace - to replace my new cards with non contactless - with some loss in functionality.

Can't remember what - was some gismo I never used.

SnotWest Mastercard? sorry, no way - Master Bates doesn't do 'em. Looks like I'll have to cut the aerial coil on the card.

Anyone confirm that such nefarious activity won't upset the rest of the card?

[Anonymous Coward]

With fewer bank branches the local small shops are often desperate for small change. People tend to offer paper money even for relatively small purchases. I make sure I leave the house with £5 in mixed denomination coins that enable the exact price to be paid for a small purchase.

It appears to be a rarity in the supermarkets for them to be given the exact money - which I calculate while waiting in the queue. Often they express surprise that someone can do mental arithmetic.

[Arthur the cat]

It appears to be a rarity in the supermarkets for them to be given the exact money - which I calculate while waiting in the queue. Often they express surprise that someone can do mental arithmetic.

Having seen a shop assistant require a calculator to work out what 10 items at 25p cost, I think mental arithmetic has gone the way of top hats and flint knapping.

[Korev]

A similar one is when you give them slightly more to reduce the amount of change you get eg paying £11.75 instead of £10 for a £6.25 means they get to keep some change and your wallet doesn't get weighed down. This seems to confuse many people taking money.

[Ellipsis]

http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-20

[David Pearce]

I recently visited the UK and found that my cards were a total lottery of using their 6 digit PIN, signing and not working.

Cashless is a big problem if the overseas banks are not properly integrated.

And I won't use a phone for payments if the manufacturer cannot be bothered to update beyond Android 4.4.4

[Charlie Clark]

Can't use it on my phone 'cos I rooted it to keep it up to date…

[Teiwaz]

Link?

Is this the same as BankLink or whatever, the logo'ed up machines I usually reject as they charge(d) * for removing cash if your bank isn't a member (and there's plenty of other machines in towns).

* it's been a while since I've looked, maybe they no longer charge...

[Old Tom]

Re: Link?

No.

At the time in the UK when you could only use your own bank's ATMs, the Building Societies and some smaller banks got together and created the LINK network to enable them to serve their customers via each other's ATM networks. (Actually, some of them created the 'rival' Matrix network - but that eventually merged with LINK.)

Larger banks eventually set up reciprocal deals or formed networks between them, though I seem to recall them taking the opportunity to charge their customers for this service. Around the turn of the century, they all joined LINK, and most charges were dropped. Now virtually any bank/building society's customers can use virtually any other bank/building society's ATMs (for free).

ATMs that charge you in the UK are not to operated by a bank or building society, but will still connect to your bank/bs via the LINK network.

[Anonymous Coward]

I use bitcoin...

...because it is web scale.

[Eclectic Man]

But ...

Over the weekend my local Pret a Manger had a power cut and today will only take cash payments due to non-working EFTPOS terminals.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: But ...

Oh, wow! How did you stand the noise made by all the millennials suddenly unable to pay, or more likely, moaning about the local wifi being out?

[AndrueC]

I almost never go into a shop as all my purchases are made online. I think the last hold-out was greetings cards but Moonpig solved that problem several years ago. I usually have a tenner in my wallet but no coins on me. I have a few in the centre console of my car due to an incident with a mobile phone that I've previously mentioned on this illustrious forum.

But I'd say I live not only a cashless life but the vast majority of my purchases are virtual as well. The only regular physical payments are petrol and golf clubs when I'm playing away.

Oh and to help knock the ageist Luddism accusations on the head I'm 50.

[Pen-y-gors]

Food? Drink? Or are you one of these who encourage Asda/Tesco vans to block the traffic while they deliver?

[John 110]

cashless

I live a cashless life as well, but not in a good way...

[Kiwi]

Re: cashless

I live a cashless life as well, but not in a good way...

Have a virtual one of these. Afraid it's about all I can afford :(

[IsJustabloke]

Greetings cards?

"I think the last hold-out was greetings cards but Moonpig solved that"

I solved that particular problem by never buying the things in the first place.

[Korev]

Re: Greetings cards?

That's the Hallmark of a great person

[ad47uk]

i do not mind doing some shopping online, if i can not get it localy, but I prefer to do proper shopping. i seen people doing online food shopping and to me it is more of a hassle.

Age have nothing to do with it, I know some people in their 20s and 30s who do not do online line shopping.

[VinceH]

Online shopping for things like groceries is madness. You have to trust that you're going to get a decent shelf life on the things you buy, whether the fresh stuff is as fresh as it can be, etc - whereas if you shop in person at a real shop, you can ensure you get the best possible from what's on display and available.

[Doctor Syntax]

"if you shop in person at a real shop, you can ensure you get the best possible from what's on display and available."

Or, if you're in Yorkshire you can choose the "reduced - still fresh" options. Morrisons seem to have improved their patisserie stock control to distressing degree recently.

[Doctor Syntax]

"Oh and to help knock the ageist Luddism accusations on the head I'm 50."

Youngsters these days...

[lglethal]

Hang on a sec...

Once you have the ATM installed, what costs are involved that would make it so unprofitable you would remove it just because your fee is reduced by 5c per transaction?

A Little bit of electricity? An Internet Connection? It's surely not going to use much of either. Getting the machine restocked each day/week? But surely that would be an on call type of thing, so you only restock once the machine is empty (or close to), and if a full ATM getting emptied isnt profitable then that 5c reduction isnt going to change anything.

Me thinks, I hear a fearmonger at work - "Oh no 5c less per Transaction? We'll end up with an ATM-apocalypse..."

[Ellipsis]

Re: Hang on a sec...

It doesn’t matter how low the operating costs are; they always greater than zero, and the profit generated is negligible. Every fee-free ATM is unprofitable, and every business seeks to eliminate unprofitable activities…

(Furthermore, I doubt the restocking services comes cheap, given the risks involved; and you didn’t mention increased insurance premiums for having a high-risk theft target on the premises, or the cost of renting the space taken up by the machine that could otherwise be used for profitable business…)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hang on a sec...

They are only fee-free for the end users, not for the service itself.

The ATM owners still charge for the services, it's one of the reasons some ATMs will repeatedly ask if you want to see your balance, when all you want is cash, because they can then charge your bank more money, as you used two (or more) services from the ATM, not just one.

[Ellipsis]

Re: Hang on a sec...

Mmm, fair point. I was mixing up bank-operated ATMs (which really do cost the banks a fortune) and non-bank ones (which as you point out the banks pay for as well – and by my own logic must at least break even, or they wouldn’t exist)…

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Hang on a sec...

"Every fee-free ATM is unprofitable, and every business seeks to eliminate unprofitable activities."

Which was the point of my earlier post. The banks set up ATMs to save money, which they still do in comparison with the costs of counter staff (who, if they're anything like the last Lloyds' counter staff I encountered will also cost custom). It ill becomes them to then complain about the cost of saving money and it would serve them right if we went back to asking for cash at the counters.

[Graham Cobb]

Re: Hang on a sec...

I suspect many of the ATMs round here (a rural area) do make a loss. They are mostly inside small shops and I suspect the shopkeepers tolerate a small loss in order to get the additional foot traffic (I have certainly gone to use the ATM and left having bought several things I hadn't planned). A really big problem with village shops is just getting volume of traffic so they can sell stuff before it hits end-of-life. This is the same reason some are still willing to have Post Office functions -- not to make money but to get people into the shop.

Even a small reduction in charges probably will cause several of those to disappear as the shopkeeper decides they can't afford the fractionally higher loss on already very small profits. Which is a shame as in these cases they really do provide an important service, often offering the only ATM in a village.

[Chris King]

Yeah, like THAT's going to happen !

"LINK wants to manage the process to prune ATMs in areas where there are multiple machines very close together while safeguarding provision of ATMs in deprived communities, where demand would not otherwise make one viable"

TRANSLATION: Our members will moan about having to service machines in remote locations, so we'll let them remove them anyway. I'm sure a crappy little machine inside a dodgy corner shop that charges £1.50 a transaction will be a suitable replacement, assuming the shop is open when people actually need cash.

My previous bank had a "satellite" branch in a local estate agents, then they decided to shut it down and told me that my nearest branch would be twenty miles away. In a place that I could reach on ONE bus a week, on a Thursday.

Then they wondered why I wanted to close my accounts. Icon says it all.

[Pen-y-gors]

Buy local.

Our village has only two places to spend money - the pub and the community shop/cafe. Both take plastic - but, the shop does cashback and, since upgrading to pay-by-bonk there's no minimum spend either, so more use cards anyway but can easily withdraw some cash to put in the collection on Sunday. Of course locals just put it all on the slate...

Nearest bank 9 miles, nearest branch of my bank 30 miles.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Buy local.

"withdraw some cash to put in the collection on Sunday. Of course locals just put it all on the slate."

They put the collection on the slate?

[RyokuMas]

Fine...

I'll have a tenner's worth of shopping and £250 cashback, please...

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Fine...

"I'll have a tenner's worth of shopping and £250 cashback, please..."

Most shops limit it to £50.

[Craig 2]

The decline in cash use has inadvertently (or not...) increased the surveillance footprint of everyone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget loyalty cards! We all know what they are really for, but I'm sure most regular users out there have no real idea!

[John Brown (no body)]

"Don't forget loyalty cards!"

I only use one for Morrisons because I spend over £100-£150 on diesel there every week. Since I have the card, I use it for the shopping there too every week. What Mr Morrison ought to have noticed is that my weekly shopped has declined in value over the last few years. I've always shopped around a bit, used a decent local greengrocers and butchers, but when Aldi opened locally they got a lot of my trade and now Lidl has opened up across the road from Aldi too. The few items I do buy from Morrisons now are those items I can't get anywhere else. I won't even touch their own brand "Savers" beans any more (ingredients for soups, stews, chillis etc) because the so-called 400g tin is almost half empty now, being topped up with watery "sauce".

[Hairy Spod]

Justification

I remember when they paid me interest on a current account and they paid a cashier to sit behind a counter to give me my money for free.

How on earth as consumers can we accept it as inevitible, their costs now are a fraction by comparison.

<insert too much money on bonuses comment here>

[nkuk]

Works well elsewhere

It works really well in Iceland, you can pay for virtually anything and everything with a card, even the smallest of purchases, and it really does make things simpler.

The only downside is that you become even more of a data-mined product than you already are.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Works well elsewhere

With am entire countries population being the size of a moderate city in many other countries, it's probably a lot easier to roll out new services or technology nationwide.

IIRC I read somewhere recently that the annual tourist population is 10-20 times the native population :-)

[Lars]

Re: Works well elsewhere

"With am entire countries population being the size of a moderate city".

Sorry but I find that argument a bit silly, still that is the way Americans are fooled to believe they can't have affordable education and health care, works a charm and calling it "socialist" even better.

[Kiwi]

Re: Works well elsewhere

Sorry but I find that argument a bit silly, still that is the way Americans are fooled to believe they can't have affordable education and health care, works a charm and calling it "socialist" even better.

The yanks actually work very hard at having a good very affordable education and health care. For the top 1%.

They achieve this by deflating wages and so on, keeping the remaining few 99% down (who lovingly make such a sacrifice for "the american way") to help keep it affordable for the rich.

[teebie]

"more than a quarter find it irritating when they have to pay by cash rather than card"

Did they ask how many find it irritating when they have to pay by card rather than cash?

[VinceH]

That's what I was wondering. FTA:

"Given the option, 26 per cent of Brits would never choose to pay cash when buying an item in a shop and more than a quarter (26.35 per cent) find it irritating when they have to pay by cash rather than card, according to a survey commissioned by global payment experts PPRO Group."

If 26% of Brits would never choose to pay cash, that means there are 74% who either would choose to do so, or who don't mind either way - assuming the three most obvious choices. Personally, I'd like to know the overall breakdown of answers to a question like that, rather than having one cherry picked and thrown at me because it suits an agenda.

[VinceH]

A quick bit of searching, and the figures come from a PPRO blog post titled The UK is going cashless - which mentions those stats, but doesn't link to any published results of the survey.

If wandered to their contact page and sent them this:

In your blog post dated 10th August 2017 - titled "The UK is going cashless" at https://www.ppro.com/blog/uk-going-cashless/ - you state that 26% of us would never choose to pay cash.

According to my maths, that means there are 74% that gave a different answer. I've had a brief search for the results of the survey itself that you refer to in that blog post, but can't find it (and you don't appear to link to any published results) - could you either tell me where it is, or provide me with the full results for that question?

Similarly with the associated statistic - that 26.35% find it irritating to pay by cash. How does the remaining 73.65% breakdown in terms of the actual question asked and options given? And was a similar question asked to determine how many people find it irritating if they have to pay by card?

As it stands, it looks as though you have cherry picked some results for the purposes of your blog post and to back your own position, but without the full results those statistics are, to be blunt, meaningless.

They'll probably think I'm some kind of internet crackpot and ignore me, but you never know.

[Andrew Oakley]

Theft of cash machines by JCBs

In Shropshire, Gloucestershire and other rural counties, we've seen a wave of ATM thefts. By which I mean that someone turns up with a JCB (backhoe) and simply carves the ATM out of the wall of the village shop.

It's an easy crime and village shop owners are increasingly reticent to host cash machines due to the risk of not just the ATM getting stolen, but their building being damaged and consequently being put out of business until the building is made safe, repaired or completely rebuilt.

With no post office, no local bank branches, spotty-at-best mobile data and poor broadband, this means that quite often the only means of payment is the old-fashioned chequebook.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-37437825

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Theft of cash machines by JCBs

"By which I mean that someone turns up with a JCB (backhoe) and simply carves the ATM out of the wall of the village shop."

'Round here, they don't bother with the pansy JCB option. They blow the bloody doors off!

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Theft of cash machines by JCBs

Blimey! Looking at that link, I expect their Michael Caine character to shout "You were only meant to blow the bloody doors off"!

[Anonymous Coward]

muggings

on the way out. Oh where are the stonings of yesteryear! :(

...

what'bout crucifictions!?

And crucifictions :/

[TRT]

Re: muggings

Ok then, we'll take two pointy ones, a flat one and a bag of gravel each.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: muggings

Nah, they are easier since chip and pin.. Mug someone for their cards, and verify their pin in one of those cheap card reading pinsentry things

[Dwarf]

Cash will be here long beyond when we all are

Banks (and governments - don’t forget the tax tracking...) may want it all electronic, but many offices have coffee shops that only take cash and are miles from town centres, roadside burger vans won’t have a reluable data connection if any connection and the risk all moves to them with cards.

I use cash a lot in many shops and trades. I can’t pay the window cleaner with a card (they don’t take it due to the monthly cost). I haven’t seen many down and outs that take cards (at least not in that way) either. Any replacement system has to work for everyone or they will create alternate economies.

What’s the exchange rate for a sheep these days ?

[Korev]

Re: Cash will be here long beyond when we all are

I woollen know, but I bet the banks fleece you

[unwarranted triumphalism]

A lot of people here with something to hide.

[ad47uk]

So we have something to hide because we want to keep our life private. i am so glad you trust our government, the police and local authorities, myself, i would not trust any of them as far as i can throw them.

[Graham Cobb]

It isn't just the government... I always pay by cash in supermarkets because I don't want the shop, or the card company, profiling me. Particularly if they are thinking of selling the data on ("this guy buys a lot of wine -- probably a good idea to put his health insurance premiums up").

When the shops & banks are willing to pay me for giving them useful data (I would require well over 1% cashback) I will consider using cards.

[Uncle Slacky]

Username checks out...

[Anonymous Coward]

ATM fees haven't made the US cashless

While many banks offer free use of their own ATMs, if you use others you might pay fees totaling a few dollars depending on the ATM. I rarely use an ATM other than my bank's, but if I'm forced to I withdraw a couple hundred dollars so that I at least feel like I'm taking less of a hit based on percentages :)

[Kiwi]

Re: ATM fees haven't made the US cashless

I rarely use an ATM other than my bank's, but if I'm forced to I withdraw a couple hundred dollars so that I at least feel like I'm taking less of a hit based on percentages :)

I wonder if that's part of their scam scheme conspiracy nutter stuff careful planning to mitigate problems.

Higher fees lead to more people taking larger amounts of cash to avoid fees. This increases the odds of someone leaving an ATM having a large amount of cash on them, making them a better target for a mugging. The more people get mugged carrying cash, the more people decide to move away from cash. The more people move away from cash.....

(Where's our tin-foil-hat icon?)

[ad47uk]

Cash for me

I prefer cash, apart from when I have to use the stupid self scan machines, they give change in 10s and 5 pence pieces. maybe another way to get people to use cards.

I do not have a contactless card, I told my bank to send me a normal card and that is what they have done, not sure how long they will keep doing that. I used Android pay on my phone once, just to see how it works, but I now taken it off my phone deregistered my card.

i can spend cash anywhere, something you can not do with a card or phone payments.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Cash for me

"I do not have a contactless card, I told my bank to send me a normal card and that is what they have done"

Did you check?

[Anonymous Coward]

I still like cash for small purchases.

Every credit/debit card transaction that you can avoid for trivial transactions reduces your exposure to potentially compromised POS systems and merchants with crap IT security. Getting your credit card data stolen because you bought a $1K camera or suit is one thing, getting it stolen because you wanted a soft drink for $2 and were cashless is just a bad idea.

[mark l 2]

If your a small business, having to accept card payments - especially for smaller transactions - cuts into your profit. If your customers pay in cash then you get the full amount of the transaction, if they want to pay with card you either have to add on a processing fee which could put some customers off purchasing or you have to take the hit and make less money per sale.

I always pay in cash when buying from a small local businesses, unless its an expensive transaction and I want the extra cover that my credit card gives me just in case the business goes under before I get my goods or service.

[Doctor Syntax]

"If your a small business, having to accept card payments - especially for smaller transactions - cuts into your profit."

OTOH it means the money goes into your account without having to wait to take it to the bank which, these days, is becoming a longer hike. I wonder how the two aspects balance each other out. The fact that some shops offer cashback suggests that cards win.

[Roopee]

Cashless, No Thanks!

I work for myself and don't accept card payments (due to the extortionate cost), and don't find it a problem. Most of my clients pay directly into my bank, sometimes while I'm there (with encouragement and help if necessary, often if it's their first time). The rest pay by cash or cheque, approximately 50/50. I don't like the hassle of cheques but I don't want them to disappear do I don't penalise them, and I'm happy to have a continual supply of cash. Shops/petrol stations that don't accept cash lose my custom (eg Asda petrol) - their loss.

[poopoo]

A society where beggars have bank accounts and carry card reading machines? Sure, we are going to fix poverty sometime soon and create a fair and just society. In the meantime there are encampments of homeless people- communities within the community, in every UK city. Or do we just ignore abject poverty?

[silks]

Here's an update from the LINK ATM network, 14th December: https://www.link.co.uk/about/news/link-announces-strengthening-the-financial-inclusion-programme/