Man: Just 18 Bitcoin babies and my home is yours

A man in Grimsby wants to flog his house for 18 Bitcoin (£81,305) because he calcuates the currency is a better investment than cold hard British pounds in the bank. Sean Atkinson, 49, told El Reg, he was aware of the growing market for selling high-end properties in exchange for the cryptocurrency, "so why not terraced houses …

[Pascal Monett]

"Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

That was the value in March.

A house sold for $350,000 or 82.55 Bitcoin means that the Bitcoin is valued $4,542.

It also means that if you wait a few months for a buyer to appear, you might find that a Bitcoin is no longer worth what you calculated initially, meaning you'll be out of pocket.

Personally, if I were to decide to sell a house, I would give a dollar value and indicate that Bitcoins were also accepted. That way, the amount would be calculated on the day of sale.

In any case, in France I don't think that such a move is possible. Selling a house means going to the notary to have it recorded, and they don't accept Bitcoins yet.

[wolfetone]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

"It also means that if you wait a few months for a buyer to appear, you might find that a Bitcoin is no longer worth what you calculated initially, meaning you'll be out of pocket."

That could happen, but over the last 12 months Bitcoin has soared in value. So you could make more money.

[Stratman]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

That could happen, but over the last 12 months Bitcoin has soared in value. So you could make more money.

I believe the same was said of tulips in days of yore.

[Roj Blake]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

"This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in."

- H.J.Simpson

[wayne 8]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

The currency used to pay the extra hands involved in real estate can be different from the currency accepted by buyer and seller.

Any government tax would be assessed in government fiat based on conversion rate at time of sale.

Guy's an artist, you expect financial acumen?

[katrinab]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

The buyer pays stamp duty land tax, so they will have to pay that in £ on top of what they pay in BTC to the seller.

[Andy france]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

As long as people want to buy Bitcoins the price will continue to go up. And when people want to sell it will go down. Unlike a fiat currency Bitcoin "value" is based solely on peoples desire to own and not on the long term economic prospects of the state issuing the currency. Consequently it is in the best interests of everyone who owns Bitcoins to constantly hype them, point out how good they are and tell you how much the ones they bought have gone up. They desperately need people wanting to buy, because if no one wants to buy what they are holding ceases to have any value.

[Finder Keeper]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

I own bitcoins and I want them to go up in value. However, I tell people NOT to invest in it as it is an extremely risky and volatile asset. I would very much prefer the value of bitcoin to rise due to its increased use in commerce. This is low risk because a seller can accept bitcoins and immediately convert them into fiat. In other words, it is better to increase the value of money by increasing its velocity (which is what happens when people spend bitcoin) rather than decreasing the amount in circulation (which is what happens when people hoard bitcoins).

[Andy france]

Re: "Today, that single bitcoin is valued upwards of $2,200, Fortune noted in March."

@Finder Keeper ... " I would very much prefer the value of bitcoin to rise due to its increased use in commerce."

That can't happen as Bitcoin "currently" operates due to the block size restricting the number of transactions. Blocks get mined roughly every 10 minutes irrespective of the hash capacity of the mining network (by design). Block size is fixed and transaction size is variable but 2000 transactions per block seems to be an empirical limit. This maxes out the Bitcoin transaction capacity at about 3 transactions a second. Greater usage will mean greater competition for the scarce resource meaning that transactions with out a big transaction fee attached are going to sit around for a log time before getting into a block and becoming valid. Even with a big fee your transaction could still take a long time to be incorporated into a block if demand is high and others are willing to throw even more money at transaction fees to induce miners to include their transaction in a block.

Various proposals are being promoted to address these issues and "forking" Bitcoin into something that scales like a real currency. Till they take effect Bitcoin has all the attributes of a financial speculation and very very few of an actual currency that can be realistically used for commerce.

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

But wait!

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It's just a make-believe currency conjured out of thin air without any tangible backing. You're much safer with currencies like Sterling, the Dollar, the Euro that are....

Oh wait.....

[Not That Andrew]

Re: But wait!

But a lot of Bitcoin fanatics (accidentally typed bitcon) seem to think it's not a fiat currency, for some bizzarre reasons. IMO they are reminiscent of the arguments that sovereign citizens, flat earthers & Tesla fanboys make.

[Naselus]

Re: But wait!

"not a fiat currency, for some bizzarre reasons"

Because it lacks most of the properties of a fiat currency, i.e. there's no sovereign power sat behind it who is able to enforce it's worth (by insisting on people paying their taxes in it) and you can't just print as much as you like since it becomes more difficult to create the more there is. It's also not a commodity currency either.

Of course, anyone sane knows that being a fiat currency isn't actually a bad thing anyway, since the Gold Standard was the cause of repeated economic disaster. Opposing fiat is the realm of gold bugs and whackjobs sat in their cellar waiting for the gubmint to take their guns away.

[wolfetone]

Re: But wait!

"since the Gold Standard was the cause of repeated economic disaster"

Was it? Because I thought it was the constant gambling of currencies against other currencies that lead to the devaluation of currencies which in turn caused economic problems?

[Spanners]

Re: But wait!

I thought it was the constant gambling of currencies against other currencies that lead to the devaluation of currencies which in turn caused economic problems?

Most of those "problems" are not a problem for the seriously wealthy - individuals or organisations. They are opportunities...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But wait!

> Of course, anyone sane knows that being a fiat currency isn't actually a bad thing anyway

Your boss called ... as you're so keen on fiat currency, he's paying you in Zimbabwe Dollars this month.

[katrinab]

Re: But wait!

Zimbabwe dollars have out-performed the pound since Brexit, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But wait!

>a lot of Bitcoin fanatics seem to think it's not a fiat currency, for some bizzarre reasons.

I'd be interested in hearing your explanation of why you believe it is a fiat currency.

[DainB]

Re: But wait!

It's not fiat currency or currency at all, it's a shares issues in 1999 by pets.com with added bonus that you can use your pets.com shares to buy weed.

Still pets.com.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But wait!

"Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It's just a make-believe currency conjured out of thin air without any tangible backing. You're much safer with currencies like Sterling, the Dollar, the Euro that are...."

...backed by the future economic viability of their host economy. You can argue that the UK, US, and Eurozone economies are looking shakier these days than they once were, but they're not going to disappear overnight.

The only thing keeping bitcoins in existence is a blockchain ledger. There are presumably hosting fees associated with this, but as long as people are still able to make reasonable amounts of money from mining and exchanging bitcoins the hosting bills will continue to be paid, and the ledger will continue to exist. If that ever ceases to be the case, well...

[phuzz]

Re: But wait!

If you can buy a small Italian car with it, then it's a Fiat currency.

[DainB]

Re: But wait!

Idea behind Bitcoin is identical to idea behind shares issued by a websites during dotcom bubble.

Some might remember how it ended.

And yes, you actually are much safer with currencies like Sterling, the Dollar, the Euro.

[Haku]

BTC value - wait what?

Sometimes I'll comment on Bitcoin stories usually joking I'm rich because I have 0.02 BTC, but I just checked the current exchange rate and Google tells me...

"0.02 Bitcoins = 89.6491 British pounds"

God damn!

Perhaps it's time I investigated that wallet.dat file I've been keeping for years out of curiosity, backed up in a few places just in case.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: BTC value - wait what?

When I investigated cryptocurrencies a few years back, I risked £20 on BTC to understand the processes involved.

From that £20 (of which I have £400 left) I have spent over £300 over the years.

The best use was to buy cannabis seeds. BTC bypasses the moral (not legal) boycott Visa and Mastecard have decided on in the UK.

[DainB]

Re: BTC value - wait what?

"The best use was to buy cannabis seeds. BTC bypasses the moral (not legal) boycott Visa and Mastecard have decided on in the UK."

An that is exact reason why it does not have any future. Enjoy while it lasts.

[FIA]

This bit always confuses me....

I'm always confused by:

Bitcoin is also the preferred currency of miscreants across the globe.

Mainly because of:

The transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in the blockchain public distributed ledger.

[Zippy's Sausage Factory]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

The hard bit is tracking who owns what wallet. Once you can prove that, you've got them bang to rights.

(We should have a Dixon of Dock Green icon for times like this, I think... so beer instead)

[Dave 126]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

€500 (Euro) notes are appreciated by miscreants too - at least those miscreants whose dodgy dealings involve large quantities of cash in a more compact volume than £50 notes allow.

[Steve K]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

Isn't that why €500 notes are being withdrawn from 2019 and (I believe) banks in the UK don't handle them?

£50 do look like they will remain in circulation though

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

Steve K,

Yup. The Europeans were warned that the €500 note would be a massive help to criminals and ignored the other governments asking them not to do it. Then again they also ignored all the warnings about how the Euro would be a financial disaster, so I guess it's only a minor point.

[ratfox]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

On the other hand, the Swiss have thousand francs notes, that are worth over £750. For some reason, it doesn't bother them.

Of course, that's a country where ATMs give you hundred franc bills (£75), which you have no problem using to buy a pack of chewing-gums at newsagents...

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

But the Swiss newsagents also accept bars of gold with swastikas on them.

The Swiss restricting high value notes to prevent criminal money laundering by Swiss banks would be like handing out speeding tickets at the Indi500

[Tom 38]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

Of course, that's a country where ATMs give you hundred franc bills (£75), which you have no problem using to buy a pack of chewing-gums at newsagents.

Sometimes you only need one note too.

[Muscleguy]

Re: This bit always confuses me....

Perhaps we should have a doughnut (or donut) icon instead?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm..

Has gazzumping now gone digital?

[Zippy's Sausage Factory]

Re: Hmm..

Surely gazumping went digital the day that RightMove launched?

[ukgnome]

He's asking for what? I thought a grimbarian would want a trawler of fish!

Joking aside I know the owner and this fits with his ethos.

Brave maybe? I couldn't answer but certainly one to watch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: He's asking for what? I thought a grimbarian would want a trawler of fish!

If we are doing Grimsby jokes..

I met this girl, she asked me to kiss her where it smells of fish.

....So I took her to Grimsby.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even ransomware scammer need somewhere to live.

[Pen-y-gors]

Strangely complicated...

Shirley if he wants bitcoins, the simplest thing is to sell the house for UKPs and then convert those to BCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Strangely complicated...

That's true, but "Man sells house, plans to buy BTC" doesn't generate lots of free advertising for the sale of the house :)

[ukgnome]

Re: Strangely complicated...

Happy to correct you - This isn't about free advertising it is about using one system over another. It is a preferred method.

Yes he could sell conventionally and have all the usual fun experiences that go with it.

He is selling this himself - website is sellmyhousedn329lp.co.uk but why not market the house to as many ways as possible. Also I think it might be a way to lessen the costs associated with all the

It fits with his ethics and ethos to buy and sell with bitcoin.

If we only did things that was considered normal then the world would not have art or music.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Bitcoin is also the preferred currency of miscreants across the globe."

> Bitcoin is also the preferred currency of miscreants across the globe.

Really? I thought after re-branding their deeds "Credit Crunch", they simply got on with business as usual in conventional currencies, bar the occasional knighthood and a little local difficulty in Panama...

[DagD]

reminds me of my closet trove of confederate dollars

packed neatly away between my bell bottoms and corduroy pants.

Sitting right on top of my retirement fund consisting of old baseball cards.

[Packet]

What I don't understand...

How do you convert the bitcoins to the local currency of your domicile - so you can actually buy stuff?

Or does the grocer accept BTC now?

[Finder Keeper]

Re: What I don't understand...

Many stores do accept bitcons. There are exchanges (e.g. coinfloor, kraken, bitstamp, coinbase, gemini) which let users buy and sell bitcoins for fiat.

[handleoclast]

Now Bitcoin has become so commonplace

It's time for me to release my new invention.

It's a crapto-currency called ShitCoin.

It has its own bog chain.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Now Bitcoin has become so commonplace

Dogecoin was introduced as a gag, and now the total value of all Dogecoins is in excess of $100 million. So you should do it, and make sure to hold 5% of them from the start just in case the same happens! I'll take a 1% commission for this recommendation, thanks!

[David Bond]

Re: Now Bitcoin has become so commonplace

Sorry, shitcoin is already taken :) came out in 2013.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin tax evasion

People who make undeclared monies of much value through their businesses (cash in hand) tend to buy houses in cash, which at the moment they seem to be getting away with, as it mostly seems to go largely uninvestigated by the HMRC - Bitcoin seems a lot less risky for buying big ticket items which would normally would flag them up as potentially dodgy people, though I hear large sums can be traced if the will was there.