Paris nightclub red-faced after booze-for-boobs offer exposed Bar staff at a nightclub in Paris have hit upon a two-for-one idea to boost custom by promising female patrons that dare to bare their boobs a small, free drink. Wanderlust, an open-air club billed on TripAdvisor as the best in the French capital by one punter, displayed a sign that stated "tits = shots". It was spotted, …
On a loosely-related note, many years ago, participating in a Central London stag night dressed (in drag) as old ladies, we overheard a US tourist observing this in McDonalds at Tower Bridge and remarking "Gee, these UK cross-dressers sure are ugly"...
No photos remain, I am relieved to say! To anyone reading, if you saw any of this in early December 1999 (or were that US tourist) then I can only apologise.
The sight of my Kiwi ex-brother-in-law with huge colourful tattoos, wig and what remained of an old lady dress running down a platform at Waterloo is not easily erased from one's mind.
I know, but I'm referring to articles like this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-19/how-women-got-crowded-out-of-the-computing-revolution
Which has been relaunched by others. It looks that today the worst people, the more racist, the more sexist are programmers... other categories just fine, despite the news...
There were lots of female programmers in the 1980's. Today, it's down to around 20% in the USA (not sure of figures for UK but likely comparable). You suggest that women have been "crowded out". I believe more likely is that women have ceased to be crowded out in other places. In the 1980's it was very hard as a woman to progress in a career in law, in medicine, veterinary science, in business and to an extent, in the Sciences. Nowadays women make up 51% of law students in the USA, make up the overwhelming majority of veterinarians and have similarly surged in management and medicine and other areas. Where did all these smart women magically come from? A lot jumped ship from IT. In the early years of computers going mainstream, it was actually seen as an outgrowth of secretarial work. Cosmopolitan magazine had an article in the 80's on what a good career it was for women and Admiral Grace Hopper (Peace be upon her) said programming was "like planning a meal - you had to make sure everything arrived when it was supposed to arrive". A peculiarly (for the time, offensive now) female way of selling the career as one suited for women.
Why suppose that women have been "crowded out" of this moderately well paying career rather than falling sexism allowing the pursuit other careers that are either more lucrative (management, medicine and law all typically pay better) or more interesting; or both?
In country's with a higher degree of sexism than the West - Iran, Indonesia for example - gender ratios in programming are actually more even. It's likely not that these countries are more enlightened than us in this one, rather specific area, and more that the prejudices prevent women progressing in more traditionally male careers such as law, management, medicine, et al.
N.b. to be very, very clear - women perform equally to men in technical areas, scoring as well in maths and in engineering in general. But what we are finding is that many women choose other areas more so than men do. Not exclusively, but to a degree that is noticeable.
@h4rm0ny: I've often felt it the case that many find it far too easy to just play the sexism card when it comes to women in computing than to stop and think a little and come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, they have gone into other careers that are more lucrative and more interesting to them. Let's not forget that programmers and other IT workers are often seen as almost a worthless commodity to be bought at the lowest price possible by many in management and on the user side of the fence. I mean what female wouldn't want to spend the next 40+ years of their life being treated like they're an inconvenience? Not to mention that, where I live at least, there is a booming section of women that have decided to create their own businesses post child birth in order to have greater freedom around the time they have to do things. My guess is that most of these have never looked back. Mumtrepreneurs I believe is the hipster tag for them.
Yeah, again loosely connected, some of the females in my house will doubtless be watching Shitly Come Dancing in the autumn. I hate it, so I've no idea of the line up of 'celebrities'. One thing can be guaranteed : some of the male contestants will be 20-30 years old, probably from Hollyoaks or the like, and they'll be spending a lot of their time topless, for the benefit of teenies or the menopausal. One year, I suggested that some of the female professional dancers should, in the interests of equality, perform topless as well. For reasons I'm struggling to remember (due to the mild concussion I received in the seconds after the suggestion), the females in my house thought that proposal unacceptable.
In one of my favorite bars there was a row of lady breast and chap buttocks snaps behind the counter. I don't remember if the barkeep offered a shot for these, but being featured there was considered a badge of honour by all parties. Although presumably not for life. Quite luckily, instant snaps have quite a limited lifetime when kept exposed to light, after a few years the snaps would have faded and be replaced.
"Films can be kept in good condition forever though, and be used to print more pictures...?"
Polaroids are basically an instant one-off print medium - although IIRC they did experiment with a "negative" system for later copies.
Polaroid cameras were once the equivalent of SnapChat for couples exchanging intimate pictures - especially in colour.
And don't forget the original peel-apart Polaroid film. I have this memory of my dad having one of the Polaroid cameras from that time. Take picture, wait for it to eject from the camera, wait 90 seconds, peel apart, throw away the other half very carefully. (Much like the pro film, I guess, except that perhaps the pro version let you keep the other half as the negative.)
You were lucky!
When I were a lad we 'ad t' 'old onter camera wi' both 'ands while tugging on't flimsy little paper tab on't side wi' t'other pair.
AND we had to know 'ow t' count up t' 30 afore we could pull 't film apart ...
AND we 'ad t' know t'at were seconds we was counting...
AND we 'ad t' know wot a second was ...
AND 'ow long it was ...
AND when it were cold we 'ad t' put pussy caustic film in't aluminium frame wi' our toes...
AND we 'ad 't pull't frame out 'o back o' camera wi' our teeth ...
AND open up t' frame wi' our t'other pair ...
AND use t'other set of toes t' put 'pussy caustic frame up an armpit t' keep it warm ...
AND if we tore 't little paper tab out o' camera our dad ....
Kids. Don't Know y've bin born!
Polaroid stopped making the peel apart film some years ago but Fuji carried the torch until they ceased production early this year.
Still got a few boxes of the Fuji in my fridge. Quality compared to the modern Instax stuff is wonderful, lugging around 3.5 kilos of attached Mamaiya less so.
Can I ask what a "leftie" is?
A couple of years ago this phrase had no meaning yet now it is described as anyone that isn't on the right, which is another phrase that had a different meaning.
Why would you downvote someone for being a "leftie"? It doesn't exist except in the rantings of a peculiar president.
In an ideal world everyone would take a step back and evaluate where we are going, what the mainstream press is pushing and then push back because to do otherwise means you are sheep.
Maybe it's an outlet for anger, that kind of makes sense. Placate the masses by allowing them to vent anger at different groups and each other.
A leftie is a homo Satan worshipper determined to spend white mens' taxes on supporting terrorist immigrants and using profits from sexually exploiting children to run gay conversion camps. All that pales into insignificance when you discover they use their own email servers.
"A leftie is a homo Satan worshipper determined to spend white mens' taxes on supporting terrorist immigrants and using profits from sexually exploiting children to run gay conversion camps. All that pales into insignificance when you discover they use their own email servers."
In the sake of fairness, let's hear both sides....
A rightie is a beastial Klan member determined to spend white mens' taxes on supporting terrorist nationalists and using profits from exploiting immigrants on low wages to run fascist conversion camps. All that pales into insignificance when you discover they are bigger communist bedfellows than they slam their opponents for being.
"A leftie is a homo Satan worshipper determined to spend white mens' taxes on supporting terrorist immigrants and using profits from sexually exploiting children to run gay conversion camps. All that pales into insignificance when you discover they use their own email servers."
Yup, that'll do.
When I were a lad, lefties used the term "fascist" I never did get a proper definition out of 'em, but it seemed to mean "Someone whose politics are very slightly to the right of mine and with whom I choose to disagree".
Does that help at all?
Lefties were Montagnards who sat on the left-hand side of the French Assembly, initially at the Palace of Versailles, and represented the interests of the common man, mostly the commoners of Paris, in opposition to the Girondistes, who represented the interests of the elite, primarily King Louis XVI of France.
Today, a Leftie is anyone who opposes any political ideology, policy or initiative that could most succinctly be characterised as Social Darwinism, which for the most part encompasses Neoliberalism and Neoconservatism, or in other words that which now sadly qualifies as mainstream politics.
" Girondistes, who represented the interests of the elite, primarily King Louis XVI of France".
I disagree - Girondins were moderates who opposed the extremism of the Mountain . They were also defending federalism against parisian centralism.
I lean quite radically port-side myself (#no_innuendo) and I am often very surprised by the range of ideas covered by the word "leftie" (or its equivalents in various languages).
In the present case for example, OP seemed to infer that a "leftie" should automatically approve of the twittergasm and thus condemn the voluntary baring of skin. From where I stand, this would seem extremely prude and very right-wing (not an attack).
Some responses suggest that "leftie" means "whoever doesn't agree with Trump" - which is awfully region-specific - because for some very badly mislead people, left = stalinism ( historically speaking, Staline is closer to autocratic fascism -far right- than to communism. In fact, Staline had all the "real" communists killed or deported).
One thing about Staline: he stained his hair black, unlike modern-time like-minded politicians. Orange may well be the new black, after all...
.
"but I fail to see the problem with this 'offer'. Unless they are saying it's exploitative of poorer females??"
It's capitalism, my dear boy, capitalism.
Anyways, Shirley there are no tolerant lefties.
AHAH! you're a closet tory and I claim my £5.
No, you can't have any commission.
A life. The old one was too stuffy.
The lady that complained would probably have a fit here,(Ibiza) I have seen tea bags with more material than the swimsuits the girls wear for streetwear and they don't wear much more in the clubs at night, which is not unreasonable considering the 30+ temperatures in the clubs.
On occasion I have seen topless girls walking around in Ibiza town too.
As for actual beachwear, skin is popular.
I'm 65 and was recently given a bunch of photographs from my days as a Hash House Harrier some 20 years ago - needless to say, I have never had plans to run for public office but what the heck - does anyone really care about this. People do what people do, drunk or sober. Let's just get over it.
And FWIW - I had a hell of a lot of fun Hashing for many years - Hashers, a drinking club with a running problem.
"I think the main issue was the more pissed you are, the more likely you are to do it."
In my youth it was also a matter of how pissed you told yourself you were. Although alcohol removes inhibitions - there is also the psychological effect of excusing your behaviour to yourself "because I was drunk". You can behave in a desired way that is normally thought "not allowed".
ISTR an experiment where students were given a placebo drink that they thought was alcoholic. Their inhibitions decreased in the same way as if they had had alcohol. Possibly the same phenomenon as the "contact high" - or more colloquially "drunk from the smell of the barmaid's apron".
I am not sure about the source of the outrage it could be a number of things-
> Only women could get free drinks. Poor blokes cant flash for some booze.
> Women are the weaker sex and need protecting from their own actions.
> Following Lost all faith...: women are so immature and incapable of looking after themselves that their actions need policing if we dont police their alcohol intake. (I agree with faith btw, not that it should cause outrage)
> Because someone was so bored they needed something to be outraged about.
Some women don't want to be asked to expose themselves when they go out at night. It's objectifying and part of rape culture. It probably counts as solicitation - it's not much different to kerb-crawling or offering to pay random women for sex acts.
I don't know about outrage, but it's understandable that some women would want to warn their friends to avoid this bar, and the bar's owner might be annoyed at the loss of business.
Is there any evidence that women were pressured into doing this? Seriously - "rape culture"? "counts as solicitation?" "not much different to kerb crawling?"
This sounds like someone from outside the a micro-culture poking their nose into something they don't understand and applying their own values on other people. I very much doubt the women who did this were coerced. Enticed, maybe. But enticement is not a bad thing.
I rather think, given the expense of obtaining Polaroid film, that if it is in fact Polaroids we are talking about and not some journalistic shorthand for a more modern alternative, that the point is that the subjects of the photos have some expectation of them not hitting the internet and dogging them for the rest of their days.
Of course, all it takes is one drunken lout with a cell phone more intelligent than they are to make that problematical - assuming there is no "no phone snaps" policy at the bar in question.
Were I the bar staff, I would be making damned sure that no-one in the audience was taking their own snaps of the event itself too.
But then again, I was brought up with the Sunday Mirror's pictures that accompanied the serialization of Desmond Morris's "The Human Zoo" and "The Naked Ape", and the Mirror's page five model. I don't freak out when shown a pair of breasts, nor do I place any expectations on the owner of them if she should show them to me - providing that if she whips them out she doesn't get bent out of shape if I cop a look. I am a hetero male after all, and have my own hard-wiring (Ha!) soldered in place by millions of years of evolution and 60-summodd years seeking wisdom (and the occasional exposed female chest).
Anyway, they are breasts. They need air.
Certain office Christmas parties often found the out tray of the photocopier loaded with commando-style images of ladies naughty bits.
The only person who got outraged about it was the HR old biddy. Thankfully she was no longer agile enough to get on up (which was playing in the discos back then).
>before questioning if those that agree to expose themselves have not already drunk too much.
Ah yes, because a woman who flashes her tatas is clearly in no straight state of mind and must be being taken advantage of. Or maybe they just don't really see it as a big deal, and hey, some *might even find it funny*.
But nope, it's gotta be exploitation.
.. if you consider it's a light form of prostitution: something is offered in exchange of a service with a sexual connotation.
At a time, showing naked knees was considered as sexual exhibition, we can only hope mentalities will continue to evolve and someday, showing breasts or nude bodies will be something culturally acceptable as it was in the past (NSFW in puritanical and strait-laced countries)
Everything about this story sounds phony. Polaroids in 2017, where would you buy the film? A Paris bar, maybe Salt Lake City but not Paris. The beaches in France have been nude since the 1950s, it's doubtful that the bartenders would bother offer anything for a simple tit flash in Paris and even if they did why would the management feel a need to apologize?
Polaroid film isn't that hard to come by - instant cameras have had a bit of a renaissance over the last few years, and unless I'm very much mistaken, if you can't be bothered to look for a camera shop (even though there are plenty in Paris), Amazon still deliver to France.
>>it's doubtful that the bartenders would bother offer anything for a simple tit flash in Paris
You don't go to a bar purely for the alcohol. You could just buy it in Tescos if you wanted. You go for the atmosphere and the people. They probably thought that it created a fun and flirty atmosphere in the club. And they were probably right, as well.
>>and even if they did why would the management feel a need to apologize?
Same reason any company feels the need to apologise for something like this - fear of the hordes of complaints, harassment and protest that comes with offending a certain online segment of society these days.
That said, reviews of the club on TripAdvisor are pretty dire. I quote: "I'd rather go to a nightclub in Rhyl"
Are women allowed to own and be proud of their bodies? Or are they supposed to be ashamed and hide their bodies for fear of what effect they have on un-controllable men?
Isn't France the same country where so many towns are trying to ban burqa's and burqini's? Do they want women to expose themselves or not?
Seriously France, get your shit together.
"It is not clear what sort of punishment the staff will receive, but given the bar is in Paris, it might involve being forced to be pleasant to customers for a whole year. Sacré bleu!"
Any self-respecting Parisian member of the service industry would choose the death penalty over that.
While to offer of free drinks for popping boobs may have a tait of sexism for most, the female making complaint could not, and any circumstances blame rthe bar should the participating women drink excessively, since these women are responsible for their own behavior., whether exposing their tits for Free drink or over indulging.
Reminds me of a cafe in Oxford in probably 1976.
During a spell of very hot weather the female owner banned topless men. Her argument was that women weren't allowed to be topless there by public opinion or law - so men shouldn't be allowed either.
I once threw a Vicars & Tarts party (definitely no longer PC) for people from the office. It was interesting the amount of licence the women took in their outfits - especially those who had been regarded as rather prim and proper.
On an earlier occasion I had a flat warming party. The next door neighbour was renowned as being a prim battle-axe who always complained about younger residents' behaviour - but I invited her out of courtesy. The flat had just been renovated - and on the carpet was one of the popular goat skin rugs. To the amazement of the assembled company the neighbour made a bee-line for it - and gave a very sultry impression of Eartha Kitt singing "Old Fashioned Millionaire".
An invitation to a friend's birthday fancy dress party was accompanied by a warning that one of the neighbours pulled mens' trousers down after she had had a few drinks. I went in a grass skirt with "warpaint" on my body. At some point someone jokingly asked what make were my briefs - so I took them off - having a G-string under them. The woman was then encouraged by the company to take my G-string off. It became obvious that pissed as she was - the public challenge and my neutral stance - voided the kick she would normally have sought. .
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