back to article Don't mind if I do, says Nokia, taking a €1.7bn chomp out of Apple

Apple has handed over a cool €1.7bn (£1.5bn) cash payment to Nokia following an intellectual property dispute with the Finnish firm. Speaking to analysts during Nokia's Q2 earnings call, CFO Kristian Pullola said Nokia had received a "substantial upfront cash payment of €1.7bn from Apple". The biz will outline how it plans to …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I love Apple.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Nobody here can accuse Nokia of being a patent troll, can they?

    With the mountains of cash Apple are sitting on, they should have just done the right thing anyway years ago.

    1. simon_c

      If whoever had bought the Nokia IP from Microsoft user a different name, such as "XYZ holdings," I'm sure many many people would accuse it of being a patent troll. Just because it's a familiar name that might have invented something new a decade or two ago, doesn't mean it's not a patent troll now.

      [I'm not commenting on the rightness or wrongness in of software patents]

      1. MojoJojo

        Re: Compromise

        This is the "original" Nokia - the IP was not sold to Microsoft, just the mobile division.

    2. Ian Michael Gumby
      Boffin

      But but but ...

      Nokia doesn't make anything anymore !!!

      Sorry no sarcasm tags, because its obvious.

      Look, the issue is that its difficult to accuse a 'patent troll' of doing something wrong, let alone defining what a patent troll is...

      Would you call Google a patent troll? How about IBM? Apple?

      Funny, but consider this..

      <some company> goes under and auctions off their IP.

      IP is a tangible asset that can be bought or sold. Joe buys up some of the company's IP.

      Joe who is a Wall St. Investor does this as an investment. Joe then sue's a compay? (Lets say Apple) for infringing on the patents. Is Joe a patent troll?

      Instead of Joe, Google buys the patents. (Replace Google with any other company). Google then sues Apple for infringing on the patents. Are you now going to call Google a patent troll ?

      That's the problem.

      There's more to a patent troll than just suing to protect their investment in IP. IMHO its how they go about doing it and who they sue. Google, Apple, IBM, etc ... will sue the manufacturer who violated the patent. Not the consumer of the patented product.

      The point, boys and girls, isn't that the action of buying an asset is what makes one a patent troll, but their actions on how they protect their investment. So you need to learn to use the term properly.

      With respect to this case. Nokia... had they gotten the money from licensing, do you think that maybe they would still be in business today making phones? So maybe Apple is a little more evil because they willfully violated the patents for their own benefit?

      Just food for thought...

      1. macjules Silver badge

        Re: But but but ...

        Sorry, but some inaccuracies there:

        Nokia Networks - Gigabit LTE anywhere etc

        Nokia Bell Labs

        OZO - next generation 360 surveillance cameras

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Definition of a troll

        You can disagree, but my definition is a company that doesn't make any products using patents it own, and only sues/licenses. And yes, that holds even if a company that used to make many products and created lots of IP sold off that IP to a new company that doesn't make any products.

        It CAN be the action of buying an asset that makes them a troll, because it is no longer possible for other companies that have related IP to countersue and/or reach a cross licensing deal. They don't have to worry that the companies they sue will sue them, because they don't make any products that use that other company's patents...which gives them far greater freedom in their actions.

        Nokia is not a troll here, because they still make products that use their IP.

        1. DJO Silver badge

          Re: Definition of a troll

          Just because they no longer sell consumer goods does not mean they don't sell or make anything. Nokia make lots of high-end network kit for ISPs and Telcos.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Definition of a troll

          that would include ARM and IBM then ?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Definition of a troll

            ARM sells products using their IP, just not physical products. When Qualcomm licenses ARM's A72 core design, it includes IP owned by other companies (i.e. infringes on other company's patents) so ARM couldn't go all sue-happy on Intel (for example) if the latest Kaby Lake infringed on some ARM patents, because ARM's designs undoubtedly infringe on some Intel patents as well.

            While I'm not sure how ARM handles licensing, even if ARM sells their IP "as is" (leaving it up to Qualcomm to handle IP disputes arising from ARM's design) they still can't get trollishly aggressive, because that would risk causing the object of their aggression to sue all their customers in response. That's not good for business.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Arctic fox
        Headmaster

        Re: "Nokia doesn't make anything anymore !!!"

        Sorry old but that simply is not true. Nokia got out of the mobile phone business but is still heavily involved in other areas. Nokia has in fact one of the largest wholly geuine patent portfolios on plantet earth amongst which they have a shit load of solid engineering/IT/communications patents which are largely the result of them spending huge amounts of money over many years on research in house. They are about as far as you get from being a "non-producing entity". The fact that Apple gave in so comprehensively with a settlement mandating a payment of $1.7bn up front plus royalties ongoing makes it pretty bloody obvious that Apple knew that Nokia had them cold and had to come in with their hands up.

  3. john.jones.name

    still no Nokia Home Plus with homekit... now that would be useful...

  4. kmac499

    I'm guessing the patents in dispute were for something a little more technical than rounded corners.

    1. Sanctimonious Prick
      Joke

      @kmac499

      Something about colour in a software defined interactive button...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A troll is a monster that hides under a bridge and waits for an innocent traveller to try to cross.

    So a patent troll, to me, is an entity that (a) WAITS until their victim has actually made some profit from their patented tech before suing, rather than stopping them and negotiating straight away, and (b) goes after INNOCENT infringers who were unaware of the patent and re-invented the tech themselves.

    I don't know whether that applies in this case.

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