Conservative manifesto disappears offline – then mysteriously reappears

The Conservative Party’s 2017 manifesto was briefly deleted from its website this morning – on the same day that political Britain downs tools for the State Opening of Parliament. While political journalists concentrate on the cut-price pomp and ceremony of the State Opening – the Queen is said to not be wearing her full …

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was to guess it's so they can remove all references to the dinosaurs.

We all know according the DUP they didn't exist.

Though difficult with all the fossils in the party.

[tony2heads]

fossils?

more like Coelacanths. They were long thought to be extinct, but still lurk in dark places

[Triggerfish]

Re: fossils?

more like Coelacanths. They were long thought to be extinct, but still lurk in dark places

But that doesn't quite cover how I feel abut them, lurking like weaponised anthrax in a disused lab would be closer to my feelings for them at the moment, nasty, unpleasant and something you wish was locked up somewhere properly.

[MyffyW]

Re: fossils?

The DUP represent a significant minority of opinion within the North of Ireland. To that end it is entirely right they play a part in power-sharing there.

They represent a vanishingly small minority of opinion within the wider United Kingdom and any party that relies on them to govern ought to put it's ambitions for power beyond use.

[Anonymous Coward]

And as if on cue:

"The DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson uses a point of order to complain about [Caroline] Lucas calling the DUP 'dinosaurs'.

...

John Bercow, the speaker, says the term 'dinosaur' is not unparliamentary. He says dinosaurs survived for very many years."

Bravo, Mr Speaker. Bravo.

[frank ly]

I know

They were upgrading to Debian Stretch, the strong and stable release from a conservative distro. (I read the headline and sub-heading and that's usually as far as I get).

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/21/debian_9_review/

[Will Godfrey]

Sneaky

It was done, specifically to draw people's attention away from [REDACTED]

Oh, wait. Someone at the door...

[Naselus]

Does it matter?

They'd already basically disavowed the entire thing before the election, after all.

[Dan 55]

Well archive.org has a copy...

Old vs new.

Let's see what diff says.

They're the same.

[graeme leggett]

Hanlon's razor

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity politicans"

[Kane]

Re: Hanlon's razor

Surely with such a change to the phrase, it should be updated to Leg's Razor?

[Solarflare]

Re: Hanlon's razor

Or simply "Venus" for short?

[Dodge.This]

Re: Hanlon's razor

I was hoping somebody would do this and I'm glad you have... off the back off that I've compared the sha256s and those are the same.

[Anonymous Noel Coward]

They've replaced it with a new one just in case Theresa May calls another snap election...

[Rich 11]

She went down the bookies and hedged her bets by putting ten grand on losing at least 20 seats at the next election she calls. She thought this would give her a nice retirement lump sum in case she didn't win that election, but the best odds she could get were 11-8...

[Anonymous Coward]

I Googled Labour's manifesto but the only hits I had were for "The Magic Money Tree And Other Fairy Stories"

[codejunky]

@AC

Youd dint get the little red book?

[Dan 55]

The Magic Money Tree has just borne fruit, it's about to cough up 2 billion for the DUP and to keep the Tories in power. No more money for anybody else.

[Anonymous Coward]

>The Magic Money Tree has just borne fruit, it's about to cough up 2 billion for the DUP and to keep the Tories in power.

Chump change compared to the hundreds of billions Labour wants to add to our already mountainous debt pile, I wouldn't trust them to run a bath let alone the economy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Without taking sides I do believe that if you are going to invest in infrastructure and the country then while interest rates are low it's probably the best time. Then from the economic growth you pay it back, assuming you get economic growth though if you invest in education you have more chance of it happening. The alternative is cuts, cuts and more cuts that leave resources and the country in a bit of a mess.

Like I said I'm not taking sides but plans a and b don't work.

[John Smith 19]

"if..going to invest in infrastructure..then while interest rates are low..probably the best time. "

3 little words.

Public Private Partnership.

The UK has had very low interest rates for most of the decade.

And no govt with the balls to actually do what you asked. They have however let companies build schools and hospitals and charge local authorities and the NHS for them

Which will net the companies involved 600-700% profits over the course of the contracts.

[Triggerfish]

Re: "if..going to invest in infrastructure..

Which will net the companies involved 600-700% profits over the course of the contracts.

It's called investing in the future, you need a position on a board somewhere when you lose you seat.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Without taking sides I do believe that if you are going to invest in infrastructure and the country then while interest rates are low it's probably the best time.

Well, they could start by investing in locally-owned web hosting, rather than offshoring it to Amazon (no taxes, thank you) AWS.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Well, they could start by investing in locally-owned web hosting, rather than offshoring it to Amazon (no taxes, thank you) AWS.

That's really going to help our balance of payments against the manufacturing leviathans of the World. We need to manufacture real stuff and export it to make money but sadly we've probably lost too much manufacturing base to recover and it will take generations to make headway against what we have lost.

If there were a Jim Ratcliffe & James Dyson ticket for government I'd vote for them.

[Anonymous Coward]

two points of order

1. We make loads of stuff in this country. 2. I think you'll find Dyson sent most of his manufacturing to Malaysia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: two points of order

Not arguing with your assertions, but a "point of order" is not what I have the feeling you think it is.

[gandalfcn]

Without taking sides

"Like I said I'm not taking sides but plans a and b don't work."

I think you will find plan "a" has worked very well quite a few times in several countries, whereas plan "b" has never worked.

Admittedly one of them, Hitler, was a rather special case though.

[Dan 55]

@AC: Click here.

It seems to suggest you are wrong.

[Martin]

"I wouldn't trust them to run a bath let alone the economy."

But the alternative has to be worse, doesn't it? A party who are willing to gamble the future of the country on a referendum we didn't need, just to appease a few members of the party (and lose that gamble), and a party who are willing to gamble on an election to improve their majority and crush the official opposition - and lose that gamble too.

The Tories have proven themselves incompetent over the last ten years. It's time for a change.

[Anonymous Coward]

>A party who are willing to gamble the future of the country on a referendum we didn't need.

Don't fall into that trap, Labour heartlands were voting for UKIP in their droves under Farage and darling Labour leftie Wedgie Benn has always been dead set against the EEC and now the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQY2CHx4d3U

Corbyn is an EU outie as well.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Tories have proven themselves incompetent over the last ten years. It's time for a change.

As a neo-Thatcherite, I'd agree with you. But the Labour party have ALWAYS been economically incompetent, so I presume you're not arguing for that laughable bearded Islingtonite? You know, the one who thinks Chavez did a great job taking South America's richest country to a broken ruin? Obviously the Libdems are a party of worthless turncoats. UKIP have (almost) achieved what they wanted.

So who are you proposing should be given a chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

> the one who thinks Chavez did a great job taking South America's richest country to a broken ruin?

There was a little helping hand from Uncle S., to be fair.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true. Richard Murphy's tax analysis shows labour have consistently borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories. Here's the link : http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

[Triggerfish]

Labour debt pile, do you think the Tories haven't? They have made it worse.

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

[codejunky]

@ Triggerfish

"https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/"

Wow that link is awful. The worst debt situation without a world war yet that is glossed over as this isnt the highest debt we have had. And then for sick amusement ignoring the huge upward jump (in most of the graphs) which starts from the global recession and then blames the tories. I aint a fan of the tories but that is the level of propaganda I expect from momentum/socialists.

Amusing that site considers itself a fact site. I guess it has provided some facts but very selectively.

[Triggerfish]

Re: @ Triggerfish

Ok tbh I thought it took that into account it seemed to say so at the bottom, but there have been other articles I have read that also seem to do so and show the conservatives have been just as responsible for building the debt pile as Labour.

I'm willing to say that economics wise I could do with some more schooling, and I am willing to say that some of that rise is also due to the change in economy.

However I would also say my point if badly shown was that to say labour have been the only ones spending and putting us in debt, whilst the conservatives have been wonderfully fiscally responsible and taking us out of debt is a bit of a misnomer.

Question would this stand better? Admittedly from a blog and could be biased.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

[codejunky]

Re: @ Triggerfish

"the conservatives have been just as responsible for building the debt pile as Labour."

Of course. I have seen a few that seem to legitimately slam the conservatives and combined the parties left us begging to the IMF at one point (although labour tend to get slammed more for it because it was the unions holding the country to ransom). I just really didnt like the selectivity of that link when I am certain real evidence is available.

"However I would also say my point if badly shown was that to say labour have been the only ones spending and putting us in debt, whilst the conservatives have been wonderfully fiscally responsible and taking us out of debt is a bit of a misnomer."

When Osborne made his claims to end the deficit I couldnt believe the insanity. It restricted what he could do if the need arose (and things were hairy for a while). Then their move to the centre left to block labour from returning showed that politics was worth more to them than the voters. As much as people dont like austerity it has been shown that we have not had austerity but also it doesnt seem to have caused any real harm to the economy nor been better than cash splurging.

"Question would this stand better? Admittedly from a blog and could be biased."

I expect it is but that is one of the articles I was thinking about. Another does a similar thing in graph form. Nice one finding that source I lost them ages ago.

[Triggerfish]

Re: @ Triggerfish

A fair response I have no argument, have an upvote. :)

[Anonymous Coward]

>Labour debt pile, do you think the Tories haven't? They have made it worse.

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

Are you not familiar with hysteresis ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand money. Debt is money in this system. We are not on the gold standard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au2N07eHa-Q

[Stuart Grout]

Still lower cost than the alternative

If it had been a Labour & SNP coalition do you really think the bill would be any smaller?

[Bernard M. Orwell]

"I Googled Labour's manifesto but the only hits I had were for "The Magic Money Tree And Other Fairy Stories"

Turn the page and you'll see "The Bus That Lied and Got Away With It" and "The March of the Orange Morons". You can find this and many other stories in the "Bumper Book of Fascism" by T. May and Friends. Reprints in "Voting for Dummies".

[Rich 11]

Oh, the magic money tree! That's always a laugh, that one is. It always get a mention when someone doesn't have an economic argument against borrowing to invest, or against recognising the need to fund health and education properly rather than let more people die and have more kids enter the workforce without the necessary basic skills to help play their part in building the economy. Much better to lower taxes for the wealthy right this minute rather than invest in long-term plans that will benefit everyone.

[Anonymous Coward]

>economic argument against borrowing to invest,

Really ?

There's borrowing to invest in Capex to give you a ROI rather than borrowing to pay the bills, you will go broke with the latter in no time. What's labour's ideas on manufacturing, is it to provide tax relief for investment or is it to wind back union laws to 1970 and fritter debt money away on renationalisation ?

The country needs to make money from exporting to pay for all the lovely things you want, Germany understands this very well, Labour hasn't the slightest idea on macroeconomics.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au2N07eHa-Q

[Alan Brown]

"The country needs to make money from exporting to pay for all the lovely things you want"

You can start by making things that people outside the UK actually WANT.

Such as Airbus wings and japanese/european cars - with the parent companies looking to move things out of the UK thanks to increased costs of business in the next few years.

"British design" and "Made in Britain" became warning labels for most of the commonwealth long before the UK joined the EEC and you only get "union problems" when management is rotten. Don't expect the "empire" to bail anyone out. Memories are long and the shafting that Britain's former colonial trading partners took in 1973-4 is still spoken about as a lesson in not being dependent on a single customer.

The real Magic Money Tree is the expectation that a relatively small country with a rapidly aging population and moribund economy will be able to trade freely when its two largest partners (The EU and USA) both have significant protectionist barriers in place for "strategic" industries (agriculture and heavy manufacturing). As a small country it has virtually no negotiating power to have them reduced.

[codejunky]

@ Rich 11

"when someone doesn't have an economic argument against borrowing to invest, or against recognising the need to fund health and education properly"

Doesnt investment assume return? In that case our schools and NHS can start the glorious returns from labours massive money splurge on them. As I point out to anyone who thinks just pissing money without a plan is a good idea, splurging during a boom and borrowing to do the kind of investment you are talking about has left us in this situation. We had nothing left for when the recession hit, we were caught out because Brown had got rid of boom and bust.

Now the NHS and education and everyone else wants the same levels of funding but also pay increases as when we were in the middle of the biggest modern times boom + borrowing even more. Even after a prolonged recession and global slowdown.

"Much better to lower taxes for the wealthy right this minute rather than invest in long-term plans that will benefit everyone."

The people who employ us? 'I have never been employed by a poor man' is a quote from I think a window cleaner arguing against punitive tax increases on the 'rich'.

[Anonymous Coward]

Marxists don't bother learning real economics.

You will struggle to find any economist who thinks the billions needed to nationalise the industries Corbyn wants is a good idea.

Labour wants future generations to pay for todays cake as very little of the additional expenditure they want is on real infrastructure, although if they had instead gone for buying out most of the PFI deals there would have been some sense.

[Bloodbeastterror]

The Magic Money Tree actually exists. It's called The Electorate.

[Bernard M. Orwell]

I've found the magic money tree! It was here all along!

There's £85bn being handed over to corporations in corporate welfare; incentives, tax breaks, grants and so forth. That's quite a lot of money, isn't it? That's more than the "bloody spongers" welfare bill, isn't it? Now, suppose we don't give them those breaks, what happens? Oh yeah, the conventional wisdom says that they'll leave the UK... "Screw you guys, I'm going home".

Seriously? Let's think about that a second. Large corporations, who don't pay taxes and get huge sums in corporate welfare are going to stop doing business in the UK? Amazon not delivering? Starbucks not making coffee? in the sixth largest consumer market in the world? Yeah, right, sure. They'll all be prepared to lose millions per year from lost business just to stick to a principle. Corporations are clearly well known for not being guided by the almighty bottom line, eh?

And if I'm wrong and they do? Well, we're not making any money from taxing them, and we'll save money by not giving them welfare. Off you go, I say. Bye, bye. I also don't think it'd be very long before other business, perhaps even home-grown UK ones, would step into a market breach suddenly left begging. People still want online junk ordering and crappy drive-through (sorry, "thru") coffee you know, no reason why a UK new starter couldn't fill that gap and create jobs (not off shored, even!) in the process.

lack of tax income from multinationals and corporate welfare handouts dwarf the costs given in Labours manifesto; it dwarfs the cost we currently pay in benefits to people who actually need it. Top it all off with a tax hike for the 1% wealthiest and/or a 1p increase in income tax and we could easily fund all of the suggested programs and more. We might even have a few bob left over for other projects, like, say, education and enterprise intiatives for SMEs.

So, stop pretending the money isn't there because its just being given to the wrong people and the wrong causes.

[Sauce] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/06/benefits-corporate-welfare-research-public-money-businesses

[Anonymous Coward]

Well you should google Prof Steve Keen on austerity and you'll learn why there is no magic money tree - but there is a magic debt from thin air tree.

[John G Imrie]

Unkind folk have suggested this is so she can make a quick getaway to Royal Ascot

Would unkind folk include a Mr D. Skinner of Bolsover?

[Redstone]

Re: Unkind folk have suggested this is so she can make a quick getaway to Royal Ascot

....Along with is comrade Mr J Corbyn of Islington (North).

[wolfetone]

I heard there was a new version of the manifesto that removed the VAT from bowler hats and orange sashes.

But then the DUP got greedy so they didn't strike a deal.

[Dan 55]

This kind of fancy dress costume is already covered by zero-rating on children's clothes, isn't it?

[wolfetone]

@Dan 55

An upvote and pint for you good sir!

[Chris G]

Strong, stable and dull

What a fantastic piece of promotional design the TM banner is. Really makes you want to go out and,,,,have another cup of tea.

This lady certainly has non of Margaret Thatcher's marketing skills, dull people stolidly trying to stay in dull, stultifying, curtain twitching power. If the coalition with the DUP gets fully under way, how long before the DUP stir up the IRA?

[Alan Brown]

Re: Strong, stable and dull

"If the coalition with the DUP gets fully under way, how long before the DUP stir up the IRA?"

Given that there have already been rumblings in Stormont? I'd give it about a week.

[ecofeco]

Conservatives engage in revisionism?

Shocked I tell you. Shocked.

Why next you'll be telling us they also try to rewrite history and science!

My butler shall see you out. Good day sir!

/s

[Wyrdness]

In 32 degree heat, given the choice of a horse-drawn carriage and state regalia, or an air-conditioned car and normal clothes, I'm hardly surprised that the Quen has chosen the latter option.

Plus the lack of a crown has given her a chance to troll parliament with her EU-flag themed hat.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Plus the lack of a crown has given her a chance to troll parliament with her EU-flag themed hat."

ROFL, I just had to go look at the BBC news site and you're spot on!

[theblackhand]

I'm not surprised

Given the content, I suspect it's a floater.

You can keep on trying to flush it away but it will just keep coming back.

[Bibbit]

No magic money tree

There was no space in Wanker's Wood in which to plant a Magic Money Tree. The Banker's Bail-Out Bush, Trident Tree and Illegal Foreign War Willow have sucked the land of nutrients.

[FriendInMiami]

So what part of your taxes has been buying warfare in the Middle East?

I'm in the US and we pay heavy taxes for our wars-everywhere system, consequently we have no money for infrastructure repair, or public health, food and housing welfare, higher education... Look up what Chinese billionaire Jack Ma said at Davos about the trillions the US has flamed away since Sept. 11, 2001, creating death and destruction while ignoring the decline of Middle America. So what is the British system like? How much do you have bleeding out to keep the Sunnis under control or at least keep them killing people England approves of killing? What is your chunk of NATO and its dance around the Baltic Ocean hemming in Russia? As Reuters reported Sun. 18 June 2017, "U.S. and British troops have carried out the first large-scale NATO defensive drill on the border between Poland and Lithuania, rehearsing for a possible scenario in which Russia might try to sever the Baltic states from the rest of the Western alliance. ..."

[Triggerfish]

Re: So what part of your taxes has been buying warfare in the Middle East?

Well if we did that then that would mean the military industrial complex would have to slow down and we can't have those poor souls going broke, plus with a sudden onset of peace there would be no need for restrictive surveillance and government control.

I mean what politician wants the people to that much liberty and freedom? :)

[Lars]

Re: So what part of your taxes has been buying warfare in the Middle East?

Up voted for Jack Ma. We would need a few in Europe too. As for NATO I assume you know he speaks a lot of rubbish on that topic, like on any.

[Anonymous Coward]

Democratic Unionist Party a socially conservative group

The Democratic Unionist Party are a total bunch of lunatics. They're under the impression that marching round-and-round outside a Catholic Church whilst banging on a drum will somehow maintain the union with the UK. At the same time they're threatening violence against her majesties constabulary if they don't get their own way.

[John Smith 19]

@ Walter Bishop

And those are their more sane policies.

The big one coming down the pike is likely to be the fact that a lot of DUP supporters work for the NI equivalent of the "Federal" government. As such they have been subject to the nationwide sub-inflation-rate pay cap for the last 8 years.

This makes them very unhappy.

And what makes DUP supporters unhappy makes DUP MP's unhappy. The joker in this pack is the UK government has a formula for fairly sharing funds to the regions. Any increases to NI requires matching increases to Wales, England, Scotland as well.

Payrise to counter 8 yrs of sub inflation pay rises x all UK public sector workers --> Lots of money.

[Lars]

Shame on you ElReg

According to "Mogg" you cannot call it a shambles, that is something totally different.

[John Smith 19]

"According to "Mogg" you cannot call it a shambles, that is something totally different."

Shambles is (IIRC) "The mess left in a slaughterhouse at the end of a days work."

OTOH if you treat "slaughterhouse" as a metaphor for the results of the last UK election, with the Conservatives absolute actual majority destroyed by Labour (in Scotland and elsewhere) and the Lib Dems coming back from the dead, then "mess left" is a pretty good metaphor for the Conservative party.

IOW Conservative Party --> Shambles is metaphorically true.

However current thinking seems to be to keep May in the job till after Brexit, and then blame all failures on her (even if David Davis and his team delivers anything close to Brexiteers delusions aspirations. A mission even Jim Phelps would have rejected as impossible).

[codejunky]

Re: "According to "Mogg" you cannot call it a shambles, that is something totally different."

@ John Smith 19

"keep May in the job till after Brexit, and then blame all failures on her"

Not a bad plan. Failing to brexit or a half brexit should certainly be blamed on someone and its not like its too difficult. As our negotiations have already won the rights of EU and Brits rights to be in their preferred country. Not that it is reported that way but the EU refused and our negotiators wouldnt grant unilateral rights no matter how dumb idiots insisted we should.

[codejunky]

Re: "According to "Mogg" you cannot call it a shambles, that is something totally different."

Maybe May isnt such a brexit idiot-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/23/brexit-may-blocked-unilateral-offer-for-eu-citizens-rights-last-june

It is claimed she is the only one who stopped that spineless moron Cameron from unilaterally protecting EU citizens rights in this country. If that is true then she has at least done that right.