"Phoney phones"... haha. I see what you did there.
One in five mobile phones shipped abroad are phoney – report
Nearly one-fifth of mobile phones and one-quarter of video game consoles shipped abroad are fake, according to a report by the the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). The Trade in Counterfeit ICT Goods report, published ahead of the 2017 OECD Global Anti-Corruption and Integrity Forum this month, …
COMMENTS
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 10:05 GMT JimmyPage
Whoa - bullshit detect
Let's catch that opening line again ...
Nearly one-fifth of mobile phones ... are fake
1) Define "fake" ?
2) Am I expected to believe that 1 in 5 -m 20% - of phones in the Carphone Warehouse were knocked up in a factor in someones backyard ? That 20% of CPU sales are to unknown manufacturers ?
Or (more likely) is this some use of the word "fake" with which I have previously been unacquainted ?
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 10:30 GMT Cuddles
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"Nearly one-fifth of mobile phones ... are fake"
Firstly, as usual it's important to read the actual report rather than just the crappy reporting surrounding it if you want the real news. The report does not say 20% of mobile phones are fake, it says that 20% of "mobile phones; parts and accessories" are counterfeit. However, it still only covers electronic goods (so not phone covers and the like), and chargers and cables get their own separate category so it really is phones and parts like screens that are counted here.
That said, another important point is that the majority of counterfeit goods are now shipped in small quantities by mail. Essentially, people buy something on Amazon and get shipped a fake, rather than container loads of fakes filling up warehouses in well known retailers. That means that while it may not be quite 20% of phones that are fake, a decent proportion of those bought on places like Amazon probably are (unsurprisingly Apple and Samsung being the biggest targets). This goes a long way to explaining the big increase - a large retailer can both spot fakes and do something about them, a lone customer can likely manage neither.
It's also worth noting that the report distinguishes between two different kinds of counterfeiting - full priced counterfeits sold with the intention of fooling the customer (ie. a full priced phone on Amazon), and cheap counterfeits that everyone involved knows are fake - if you buy a "Rolex" for £10 from a guy in the street, no-one involved is being fooled into think it's real. Unfortunately it doesn't actually break these down into proportion.
Finally, for the point about 20% of CPU sales being to unknown manufacturers, it's worth bearing in mind that most of these counterfeits are likely made in exactly the same factories as the genuine goods. Presumably there's some fudging of paper trails required along the line, but to external suppliers it won't generally look like there's anything dodgy going on.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 14:45 GMT GruntyMcPugh
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"it's worth bearing in mind that most of these counterfeits are likely made in exactly the same factories as the genuine goods."
Exactly, my wife and her brother run an online business, they are often offered fake garments for sale, some almost with a guarantee they aren't fake,... so they are basically made in the same factory as the real item, and just leave through the back door.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 12:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
In another sector, someone recently made fake Canon EF 50/1.8 lenses (a lens which is already cheap)
Outside, they're quite alike the real one (but for a small difference in the writings on the lens mount, the real one has CANON INC, the fake CANONINC). Inside, they're quite different, they were spotted when buyers sent them - not surprisingly - to repair centres because they failed to work.
It look someone may have took a cheap Chinese copy (some companies make/sell them under their own brands), and made it identical to the real one.
Of course they didn't try with the more expensive (and difficult to build) lenses, they would have been spotted immediately. While replicating an iPhone may be more difficult, replicating something less expensive may work - if the knock-off is really cheap, and you can sell enough, there's still money to be made.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 16:51 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
If the knock off is pretty good you can actually make a lot.
About twenty years ago I knew some people who shifted high quality fake watches (good enough to fool jewellers even when opened - doubt you'd want to try it at a proper service centre for the brand though) at about £120 a pop, a lot to people who had the originals and wanted something to wear when out, or were on a waiting list for some were among the buyers. Same with handbags, (and getting into the shops selling these units to them was eye opening they were not open to most people). They used to buy them at around £15 a unit and they did very well out of it.
Also I have seen fake t-shirts when travelling with a textiles person who knew about the making of these things that were actually better made and quality than originals.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 18:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"Also I have seen fake t-shirts when travelling with a textiles person who knew about the making of these things that were actually better made and quality than originals."
A year or so ago I was with some people who had bought Hong Kong knockoffs of things they already had, so we could do a comparison.
The £13 "Rolex" was surprisingly good; it worked, kept accurate time, the case was nice and it was only under my x10 loupe that you could tell the difference.
The £5 "Hermes" scarf was immediately distinguishable from the real thing. Inferior material, looked a bit like silk but was obviously acrylic, but what really gave it away was the stitching and the dyeing. The lady of the group remarked that she had always thought Hermes prices were a bit of a rip off but now she could see that you really do get what you pay for with these things.
I suspect your example tells us what crap people are used to expecting from T-shirts, where the only difference between "official" and "fake" may well be the label - even may well have come from the same factory.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 19:36 GMT Kernel
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"The £13 "Rolex" was surprisingly good; it worked, kept accurate time, the case was nice and it was only under my x10 loupe that you could tell the difference."
Doesn't surprise me - I'm not sure about Rolex, but from what I've read on specialist watch collecting forums most watches, even the top quality ones, use Chinese manufactured movements with just enough local content to be able to meet the rules for labeling as 'Made in Switzerland', or wherever.
I get the impression that Casio are one of the few companies that roll their own now days.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 09:13 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
Sorry might be a bit long.
You could go to factories of brands out in Asia and wait outside the buidlings at shift change an pick yourself up a nice bargain, have done that.
But also I have seen T-shirts that are of better construction, hoop stitch v the normal way they put t-shirts together by panel (can't remeber what that was called) so totaly different machine set up and factory I would have thought. Hoop stitchs means they actually wear better, lose their shape less etc. I actually still have some, they have lasted for years and are really well made.
Apparently LV bags age at a rate and the leather takes a patina on. The guy I knew selling them pointed out the bags they sold aged in the same way. The quality on the stitching and also on the zips (decent zips is definetly something you should always look for on bags anyway - read about the YKK company if you want to read some engineering geekery)
Whether these sort of things come from the same factories, and a lot of them I suspect they do, there are also dedciated factories out there churning out the goods.
The high quality stuff though seems like it's not as common to find, you would not have been able to pick these up in the usual tourist places in Bangkok for example. The shop I visited was with an expat who did that sort of thing (and who I was frineds with, otherwise I wouldn't have been taken there, he was picking up stock), it was round the back streets near the airport well away from places westerners usually went, massive steel doors and shutters like a crackhouse and when you walked in just like stepping suddenly into a designer handbag shop. The expat also said it took two years before they would accept his Thai girlfriend coming along just in case she was police.
Watches, similar really a lot bought in BKK were from the Chinese, although I also got the impression that was because the Chinese were more business orientated with price negotiations, they would allow themselves to be negotiated down more from a price because to them it was units to shift. But quality wise I know people who have taken watches to jewellers only to be directed to service centres, and even with the backs opened and now knowing they are looking at fakes have found them to be very good and take a proper sharp look.
I'd say from what I have been told a lot are reversed engineered as well, and same with textiles there's probably a fair few rejects that aren't really in a production run, but also places that will assemble the pieces after buying them or just plain make them.
The weird thing is if you took one of these good fakes, you could end up buying a watch that had sapphire glass, and self winding movement depending on who it was faking for about £15 (cost price), the straps alone would be worth more than that if you brought them back (beautiful leather, well made steel bands etc) and sold them in the UK. At least one fake Omega Seamaster I know of has gone through various navy training excercise and ended up more than a little damp and survived.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 11:04 GMT BebopWeBop
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"The £13 "Rolex" was surprisingly good; it worked, kept accurate time, the case was nice and it was only under my x10 loupe that you could tell the difference."
There is a good line in fake Rolexes (if you care about such things) that although expensive - say £3-500) use mechanisms sourced from the same people who provide Rolex - it is the paperwork that gives them away , unless;ess I assume you are an experienced craftsman.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 11:29 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
Those are the sort of watches I was talking about, at cost price they aren't near that the mark up is huge. Was also remarkable at how quick they kept up and changed, some of the makers change the internals slightly every now again, colour of the internal mechanism wheels stuff like that, and you would see that reflected with a change around and updating of the fakes that well impressed me as a someone who has worked in manufacturing and knows what it is like trying to get a change happen in a production environment sometimes.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 14:59 GMT GruntyMcPugh
Re: Whoa - bullshit detect
"even the top quality ones, use Chinese manufactured movements"
One of my most accurate watches is a Chinese rip off. Interestingly it's a Chinese rip off of a Russian watch. Seems the original Russian firm (Cjiaba), which was a cheaper brand for starters) outsourced to China, then kinda went bust, and China just kept making them. It's obviously a cheap watch (it's an analog auto, glass back, 23 jewels iirc) it's light, and the strap it cost me £6.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 10:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Oh no!
Yes, that's an actual brand. Guess where it is made.
That is the result when the name is chosen in a place where: "You need make meeting fast, yes?".
This report puts in one bucket Grey + surplus but perfectly spec compliant goods and outright fakes.
By the way, the worst affected industry is not IT, it is plumbing. Just browse Amazon for stuff suspiciously similar to Grohe designs. You can see everything from rather humorously named "Aryan Shaft" (yes, this is a brand name too) to "Plumbing happy life".
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 18:29 GMT Crazy Operations Guy
Re: Oh no!
I tend to go for the counterfeit stuff more often than the real stuff. Usually its stuff that was made on the same assembly line, but was never delivered to Samsung. I tend to get them because they'll almost always be unlocked and have the DRM / Software "Security" parts cut out, making it much easier to install a custom OS on it.
I bought an S7 a few weeks ago like that that had some crap knock-off of version of Android on there. Stripped that crap off and dumped a freshly-built version of LineageOS on there (The successor to Cyanogenmod). It was part of batch were the manufacturer built 20% above the required order before official release (typically a certain percentage is faulty, so they'll manufacture way more than ordered so that even if an unusually high percentage fail QA, they still have the ordered amount built by the deadline).
Yeah, technically stealing from Samsung, but its kinda their own fault, what with charging $750+ for a phone that probably cost them less than $200 per unit to design and build. I have no problem with companies making a profit, but profit margins that thick are criminal (which may be one of the least unethical things they've done recently...)
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 10:31 GMT DrXym
Flash is the worst
Fake SD/micro SD cards are so prevalent that I wouldn't buy anything except from a reputable retailer where I had a chance to complain.
The likes of EBay, AliExpress are awash with fake storage cards. They might say 64GB on the outside, might even present themselves as 64Gb to the computer / device. But try and fill them up and you'll discover they're only 4GB. I've even seen fake storage on Amazon with comments to that effect.
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Thursday 30th March 2017 00:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Flash is the worst
> You won't discover they are fake when you write 64 GB. Only when you try to read it again
Friend of mine used to swear by those. Apparently he got them really cheap from Alibaba or some such, and once he figured out the real size of the cards, all he had to do was resize the filesystem to fit.
Mind, he is a firefighter and likes to live dangerously (and cheap).
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 18:41 GMT Crazy Operations Guy
Re: Flash is the worst
One of things I've been seeing recently is that normally solid state media will have substantially more storage than what is on the label in order to handle dead blocks. Some of the better brands will have twice as much or more.
Found that out after receiving a 256 GB Sandisk MicroSD card that ended up with a lot of errors. Turned out that it was a 128 GB card that someone had re-written the firmware so the entire storage was accessible. I ended up using it to store a copy of my music collection, if I lose pieces or entire files, it is no big deal. I wrote everything I had to it in one go and then toggled the read-only bit, so I end up with very few failures (flash is far more likely to go bad during a write than a read).
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 11:52 GMT Alister
Re: risk of lethal electrocution
In British English, electrocution is defined as injury or death caused by electric shock, so to a British English speaker, fatal electrocution or lethal electrocution is permissible.
I believe US English defines it as only death caused by electric shock - in which case your pedantry is correct.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 17:06 GMT HieronymusBloggs
Re: risk of lethal electrocution
"In British English, electrocution is defined as injury or death caused by electric shock"
This seems to be a recent development. Neither of my dead-tree dictionaries (Concise Oxford and Chambers) includes injury in the definition. I suspect it's an example of sloppy usage being so common that it has become standard.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 11:48 GMT Voland's right hand
If the shop is not Kosher, chose a Halal one. Failing that a Vegan (warning, new "Dr Who Money" printed by the Royal Bank of England may not be legal tender), Beef-free, dog-free, gluten-free or something else free.
Humor aside, I tend to agree with you - even the stuff marked as Prime on Amazon is quite often of fairly dubious origin nowdays. If you stray outside that into the marketplace or go on Ebay it is almost like Kapalı Çarşı (Grand Bazaar) in Istanbul.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 16:10 GMT MondoMan
Prime ain't no sign of quality
All it means is that the vendor stores their stock in Amazon's warehouse for shipment via Amazon's system.
You've got to read the fine print for "Sold by Amazon.com" to have a decent shot at avoiding fakes (not that that worked for a couple of "Samsung" cell batteries that weren't...).
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 10:46 GMT Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse
Are we defining "fake" here as...
Stuff that is not actually manufactured by the company in question, but is branded as such? Like a phone being branded, boxed and sold as a legit Samsung, but that has actually been knocked up by Shady Hans* phone store in Shanghai?
Or does this just refer to the pethora of cheap 3rd party stuff like the £1 Apple lighting cables being punted by my local Poundland store or on Amazon? Because these work perfectly, but are not actually branded as OEM Apple products.
* - This store may or may not actually exist. If it does, I accept that it may be totally legit and that my use of it here is totally and randomly coincidental. I offer my condolences for any subsequent downturn in business and as recompense I'll deffo have that totes legit iPhone7 for £5 if you'll pay shipping ;-)
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 12:04 GMT tedleaf
Anyone else not suprised at the sudden up surge last year,the same time that Amazon changed its selling conditions ?
Also classed as fakes are those goods that are from night shift makers,using spare parts or those that failed "quality control" for the day shift lines..
How do you tell the difference when everything about a product is correct,even it's serial numbers etc ?
Is it a fake ?
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 18:56 GMT Crazy Operations Guy
Re: Genuine vs. Fake
QC doesn't necessarily need to fail.
Many times a company like Samsung would contract with the likes of Foxconn to built 1 million phones, the factory, to account for possible defects, build 1.25 million phones. 100,000 of them may fail QC, but the other 150k pass as expected. Those 150K may end up in a warehouse to be sent to Samsung for the next order or, as in many cases, the devices end up the black/grey markets.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 15:48 GMT Gene Cash
Companies don't support their products
There's a big problem with companies EOLing a product in a year or two, with repair parts no longer available.
For example, I have an older GoPro with the plastic outer case. The lens is specifically replaceable. However, you can get neither the lens replacements nor even the whole case any more, despite the camera itself being built like a battleship and working fine.
So of course, I get a "genuine GoPro lens" on Amazon, and amazingly enough, it's shipped from Hong Kong. When did GoPro move? (not like I have any choice)
That's just one example among a half-dozen electronic products I own.
So my response is "you reap what you sow" and I have zero sympathy for them.
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Wednesday 29th March 2017 22:19 GMT ZenCoder
Try searching on youtube for fake phone reviews.
Some of the video's comparing real to fake phones are rather dull, but they do show that a level of sophistication that indicates that somewhere out there there is an actual market for these things. I also spotted an actual fake iPhone in the wild. At the time I found it to be surprising, but that was before I learned about the counterfeit egg industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0US7JEfhsrA
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Thursday 30th March 2017 02:21 GMT Kernel
Re: Try searching on youtube for fake phone reviews.
Yes, I've seen a number of YouTube clips on counterfeit eggs (and rice, for Dog's sake!), but I'm still struggling to see why.
Can anyone explain to me the business case for counterfeiting eggs or rice - especially in China where they don't appear to be particularly short of either?
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Thursday 30th March 2017 08:49 GMT cb7
Outright fake
I remember seeing a fake iPhone a few years back. From the outside it looked like an iPhone. But the OS was Android, skinned to look like iOS. Tapping App Store just loaded up the Android Play Store.
The guy who'd bought it for £120 was actually quite chuffed with having "saved" >£300.
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Monday 30th July 2018 19:50 GMT Torchy
13 Amp Fuses.
They failed to mention that we in the UK are now being flooded with counterfeit 13 Amp mains plug fuses that do not "blow" when an overload occurs. Some of them do actually "blow" but do so explosively completely shattering the plug and showering the immediate area with hot sparks that could in theory start a fire.