Microsoft quietly emits patch to undo its earlier patch that broke Windows 10 networking Microsoft has sneaked out a patch to get Windows 10 PCs back online after an earlier update broke networking for people's computers around the globe. Since the end of last week, systems in the UK, US, Europe and beyond have automatically installed software from Microsoft, via Windows Update, that broke DHCP. That means some …
I know the world is running out of network addresses, but refusing to give them to end users' PCs is going to help that problem.
Ooh, that depends. Maybe somebody at Microsoft has found a dusty old copy of "The Limits to Growth", or is a closet follow of Malthus? As befits a dinosaur like Microsoft, rationing is a good soviet-style solution.
But looking at the trajectory of Microsoft's business model, some might imagine that the code released was actually a broken bit of code actually intended to enable a future revenue stream of "internet connectivity as a service". Got a computer, Windows 10, and a broadband connection? Tough, unless you've paid this month's Redmond tax for the DCHP app, computer says no. An income stream as reliable as being an ISP, except that they don't have to have to build or own assets, or do anything gooky like run a big distributed telecoms network.
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"It's all part of Microsoft's cunning automated Suicide Plan for Windows 10 and the rest of their company."
If Slurp really did intend to commit suicide I'd like to say "Go right ahead, make it messy, make it painful, make it quick, and can I and millions of others watch?"
But I won't. 'Cause I've been running 'Nix since w98. Wouldn't want to obstruct someone else's view.
<< Smug>>
I think the rolling update plan, with different branches for each class of user is an engineering fiasco that could bring Microsoft to its knees -- along with millions of users. Is there no Quality Assurance team in Microsoft confident enough to say "No, this product is not fit for release"?
No chief engineer worth his salt would countenance such a scheme. And anyone who doubts that developing software for productive use requires engineering disciplines should not be in the business.
It's such a shame. Just when Microsoft looked as if was going to get Windows right, they've blown it.
Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.
I know, I know, bitching and moaning about how things were better in the past (they really weren't) is much easier than actually dealing with the issue. I can remember computers failing because the (audio-type) tape got tangled up in the mechanism... that was slightly more complex to fix than this "ipconfig /release" "ipconfig /renew"
"Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update."
The slight problem being that the average user is not supposed to know these commands, doesn't know how to get admin access to their terminal window, and because the computer isn't connected to the Internet can't look it up.
My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.
every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them
Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT.
"Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT."
Exactly so. That was roughly when we bought a Dell with a 12.5MHz 80286 (!) which had comprehensive documentation. And a week later Michael Dell himself phoned up to ask what we were doing with it - it was the bleeding edge model.
But it also cost around £10 000 inflation adjusted.
Mac documentation of the period was also superb, including the interactive guide to train people on how to use a mouse.
"What it needs is a big red 'FIX' button in the centre of the desktop that can't be moved or removed and they press it for you before the software leaves the factory."
That's all well and a good idea, but what happens when an update bollixes the fix button?
(And you know it's a 100% certainty that'd happen!) ☺
My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.
A good option that keeps with MS's new policies would be to include a sealed envelope with "open me in case of OS failure due to updates" printed on it. Inside would be a large, glossy picture of SatNad with a big smile, giving the thumbs up as he fucks your wife.
That kinda hits the Powershell vs cmd.exe dilemma though.
Since El Reg's doomsday warning about cmd.exe being put to pasture I've finally had a go at PS. For complicated sysadmin stuff, like real functions with computations and environmental access, ps is arguably a bit ahead of bash. But, for simple stuff, like a 'ls | grep foo' you have to struggle through the implications of 'everything is an an object, not text'. That makes it way harder than bash for quick and dirty adhoc commands, lots of reading to do. Not to mention that scripts are disabled by default.
If users couldn't get a grip on cmd they are gonna be totally lost with powershell.
"My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."
Pointless for the average Joe; bit like the idea of self-driving cars handing full manual control over to the human, who until that point has been playing with their mobile...
Given, we were able to get a full OS complete with GUI into sub 1MB of RAM back in the 80's. I suggest we should be able to burn a complete PE recovery OS into the BIOS (This means the recovery OS is available for those occasions when either the HDD fails or is unable to boot into an OS.). User need only press the button typically engraved with cogs, spanner etc. that many vendors put on keyboards for maintenance mode to gain access and undertake various actions, such as uninstall updates, fetch new updates, enable remote access etc.
My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.
It's almost as if you wish the old DOS days to be back!
"My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."
I'd go further than that; every Win 10 PC or laptop ought be be supplied with a free USB stick or DVD on which there's a Linux distro which can take over temporarily or full time when Win 10 stuffs up (as it tends to do on multiple occasions).
"My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."
My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a bid reg emergency button labelled "In case of emergency: Press to Install Real Operating System"
There FIFY
I don't have Windows 10 but I know people who do. Now I am very lucky in that I have a friend whose son manages a computer repair shop so if I get stuck I can always pick his brains or if I can't be bothered I pay him to do the work. As you say most people wouldn't know where to start so how about you & others on here writing a more detailed explanation on how to solve the problem I sure El Reg wouldn't mind. Then people like me who have no where near your knowledge but are few steps ahead of the masses could help those who haven't got a clue.
My mother does not even understand the fundamental difference between a website and an app... so how is she supposed to go to the command line? oddly enough, it was my elderly father (almost 80) who had to go to the command line and do it.
So, when the command line gets substitued by a modified powershell, how is he going to fix things?
Nope, ipconfig /release and /renew alone certainly did not work for me, it was the first thing I tried before discovering there was something else more subtle afoot. It needed those previously published pair of netsh commands plus a restart.
It didn't work for one machine I tested. Looking at my DHCP server logs, it was getting halfway through the "DORA" cycle (Discover, Offer, Request, Accept).
The client shouted out for a server, the server answered back, but then the client clamped its hands over its ears while singing "la-la-la, I can't hear you" and self-assigned itself a 169.254 address.
Not such much "DORA", more "DOH" (Discover, Offer, Hard-of-hearing).
So far a straight release and renew has not worked on any affected machines I have tried it on. However this has worked:
netsh winsock reset catalog
netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log
Also I have noticed that its not uncommon for the problem to only strike one network interface, so I have been able to successfully fix some laptops remotely via wifi even though their ethernet was borked.
It would be simple, as you explain, but how may Win10 users know of the CLI, let alone are able to use it to control their PC. Macroshaft and others have dumbed-down the userbase with their WinDoze to such an extent that even something as basic as this fix would be impossible for a significant part of the userbase.
And anyway - DHCP has been round since Methusla was in short trousers, so WHY were MacroShaft messing with it...It implies that they either got it wrong a long time ago and only just realised and patched it, or they were up to some other badness, probably related to chasing users for their data (paranoid? Moi?...Nah, just a realist!)
Microsoft have never been that great at DHCP. There was a feature of the way Win2000 and I think some other versions cached DHCP leases between reboots which caused us problems with our high availability cross site DHCP setup.
I forget the details, but I *think* it was something to do with the machine preserving a lease between reboots and refusing to allocate an IP address if it couldn't contact that particular DHCP server even if there was DHCP active on another IP address. If I recall correctly it meant that if a server had to be taken down for maintenance then clients rebooted with an active lease would fail to get an IP address, but clients rebooted that had no cached lease would work just fine.
Once we were able to cluster DHCP on a single IP address it became much less of a problem, but it seemed plain dumb that DHCP forwarding as per RFC lets you specify multiple servers for resilience but Microsoft's caching effectively broke or at least bent that resilience.
I think you got it right.
In order for you not to be able to opt out, they are mangling the network... so even if you put some things as 127.0.0.1 in the hosts file, windows will ignore it and give you info.
Maybe they are doing the same with DHCP in case the DHCP does the trick.. and they mangled it.
Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.
Sure, that was the first thing I tried on the Misses' laptop and it worked.
But
There is zero chance I'm going to be able to get my mother to type those commands on her's. She now reads emails and will finally even read text messages on her phone, but despite having worked as a typist in the past she is not prepared to send email or texts. The chances of getting her (and I'm extrapolating from her) and millions of similar people to do an ipconfig... are zero.
If she gets the problem it will have to wait until I can drive over and see her. In the mean time I'll just hope she's not been affected, and hope even more that if she has, my father who as debenture hasn't tried to fix it for her.
@ipconfig /release /renew
Seriously? Do you realize the horrendously small percentage of computer users who would even know how to open a command prompt? Expand your world view and realize how useless this suggestion is to the masses...
Ah that's all fixed then, isn't it? You did validate the assumption that the large number of users* who are well past the age of geek-ness fully understand " run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online" - didn't you?
* btw you do FULLY appreciate the difference between a user and a subject matter expert, yes?
"Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update."
But that would require the command-line, which as everyone knows, is reserved for those weird Linux neckbeard types. Windows is far too modern to need any of that nonsense, we're told. Can't we just ask Cortana to fix it for us?
"know, I know, bitching and moaning about how things were better in the past (they really weren't) is much easier than actually dealing with the issue. "
Couldn't agree more. Stuff happens, deal with it. People who don't know it? Well it's always been like that and always will be like that. They keep "The Tech Guys" in business. And the alternative that is trotted out ad infinitum is "Install Linux". Right.
The assumption seems to be that Windows has to be bulletproof and any deviation is a result of the resident Satan at Microsoft. I'm not saying the update process is great, but at least there is a fix, and people can either choose to work it out and research, or call their local IT expert and ask them to fix it.
Couldn't agree more, this is worst half-assed fix description ever.
I've been supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine (actually a nice bit of kit, large keyboard for his slightly less agile fingers and a lovely bright clear screen but jesus what a god awful OS) for 18 months now and it's been a total shitefest. As someone who is significantly housebound, Skype is great for him to stay in touch yet 4 times I've now had to remote access the machine to fix it due to whatever the fuck microsoft is doing to a once stable platform. Another update screwed the video driver which was a PITA to fix cause it messed with the remote desktop view too... but in about 3h I got him to execute the right sequence to patch the driver. There was the browser patch that cleared all his cookies... cheers for that, luckilly I kept a text file laying around with everything in it, but still he has to remember and re-type everything. Now this crap. How the fuck am I supposed to remotely fix his machine when it won't connect to the internet??? Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.
Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers.
Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment? I put Zorin on a neighbours desktop several years ago and other than making sure he's kept up with updates, very easy to do, It's really easy to use.
Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment?
Whilst this is a good idea, it doesn't go far enough.
From all the available evidence this is an issue with Windows messing up it's runtime configuration. In these instance's the challenge is getting Windows to reset and start up correctly. I mean how do you achieve the same effect as using "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" on a running Windows box from a Live USB?
Given where David Black is coming from, the Live USB needs to be able to control the running of the host OS (treat host OS installed on HDD as a VM?) and provide him with remote maintenance access, also wholly independent of the host OS...
You misunderstand - the Zorin install is to replace WIn10 entirely, not just to get access for patching it. Well, that was my reading of it, the theory being that it doesn't get massively shafted every month in the name of "progress".
Presumably he took your advice in the purchase?
So why does he have a Windows machine?
Every IT person I know (myself included) makes sure every family member or friend that they support for free has a Mac. (Or failing that a PC with Linux mint).
My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it, I would have expected them to go through 3 or 4 cheap PCs or maybe a couple of decent ones in that time.
Also having worked in IT for 20 years, my colleagues and I hate anything Apple in a business environment. The original poster is probably correct in saying he may of had 4 or 5 PC's during the ownership of the older Mac but he would of been able to afford them as Apple prices are ridiculous. They cannot these days be fixed or upgraded outside of the Apple store, which by the way, everything has to go back to!! Every tried getting an appointment urgently?
I'm not saying Windows is perfect....far from it. But for me, the cheaper equipment costs, the ability to maintain and upgrade "in -house" beats the "shiny-shiny" factor hands down.
Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!
Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!
I beg to differ. I've worked in quite a few places that use Windows and Macs. It just takes a bit of work and learning to integrate the two. If you can't manage that then you really, really don't belong in IT.
Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC
That's not working in IT for 20 years - that's repeating one year for 20 years..
I bet you've never used linux, BSD or Solaris either. Must be sad and lonely to be so inexperienced.
"Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC, in our IT department we have 8 of us all HATE anything Apple with a passion"
And do you have a reason for that?
Or is it like football rivalry? You have to HATE the others.. Just because..
A modern mac is a Unix machine with a very slick UI. Much more thought though than any other Unix machine so far, including the Linux ones. But you pay for the privilege, which is why I only run an older Mac Mini. But macOS runs much faster on the ageing Core 2 Duo than Windows does on the equivalent platform -and sadly most Linux distros are bloated and nothing like I remember Linux used to be.
If you don't want to have to pick a Linux distro, and just want something that just works, I'd say go for a Mac.
My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it,
If your parents are in their 80's then enjoy the fun and games of upgrading them :)
People in this age group, whilst not unable to learn do prefer to use stuff and methods they are familiar with - hence why when migrating from Windows to Linux say, it is helpful to provide them with a desktop and application suite that provide a similar UI to whichever version of Windows and applications they've been using.
The problem with not using Skype is that everyone you want to talk to does use Skype.
If the grandkids say, Grandma why don't you use Skype, then you get your ears bent because the PC you set up for her doesn't use Skype.
It's also the case that abominations like flash on websites (which of course should be outlawed) exist and are easier to deal with in Windows.
If I knew my mother would only do things which worked on Linux I'd have setup her PC using Linux. My bother and I both work in Linux and would find it much easier. But she also gets very useful help from grand kids, and they don't work with Linux.
Windows is what most people use because it is what most people use.
I wish it wasn't, I wish there was something much simpler that just worked.
Facetime is not the answer unless all the people you talk to are also Apple users. As my mother knew 70 or more years ago, when your house is the only one in the village with a telephone you can't use it to talk to anyone else in the village.
"...Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.
Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers."
I am sorry that this happened to your father and this is the downside of poor testing and quality control of updates (and indeed Win 10 itself) by Microsoft.
My constructive suggestion is to look at installing Linux (no cost), using Chrome OS on a Chromebook (modest cost) or getting a 2015 Macbook Pro (high cost and not the 2016 version).
"I've been supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine"
"with his windows 10 machine"
"windows 10"
What did you expect? Windows 10 to not Auto Update?
This is like you wanted a can of worms, but you also wanted the worms to stay in the can when opened.
Seriously, unless you want this to happen again and again, you really should change some settings or use another OS (windows 7/8, linux, macOS, windows 10 enterprise).
"And just HOW, precisely, would I get the fix on a computer that can't go online to get the fix?"
Boot off a USB stick containing a live Linux distribution[1], connect to wifi[2], and then download the fix file and save it to a second USB stick. Reboot, copy and patch.
[1] Canonical will sell you a USB stick with Ubuntu on it for a fiver. There are many others, including Tails.
[2] OK, perhaps a cable into the router if the computer does not have wifi or has a proprietary driver that isn't widely available on Linux yet - fairly rare.
Coat: mine's the one with the bootable USB drive with Debian non-free live on it AND a netgear USB wifi adaptor that does not require any firmware.
Boot off a USB stick containing a live Linux distribution[1], connect to wifi[2], and then download the fix file and save it to a second USB stick. Reboot, copy and patch.
Better yet.. 1 Boot Live USB, 2 connect Wifi/LAN, 3 click on that nice "Install" icon and 4 (10 minutes later) have a nice secure OS that'll save you time, money and follicles.
It's not clear which Windows Update patch caused the cockup, as Microsoft is deliberately vague about the contents of each upgrade on its website, and the Redmond giant refused to say which download was the culprit.
If you are in need of platform security to protect, say, business confidentiality or customer details, would you really feel comfortable with what oozes out of Redmond, especially now they've gone extra opaque "to protect the customers themselves" (I corrected their marketing with what reality there)? You have no clue what's going to happen next - every single update could take down if not your company (because you're forced to commit extra resources to thoroughly test each patch without even knowing what you're testing for), then your customers, and guess who they'll blame?
That said, those who didn't notice the wake-up call called Vista many years ago and then the reasons that gave Windows 10 the nick name "Slurp" probably deserve what they get. It's not like they haven't had enough warning by now..
Thing is it's getting worse with the cumulative patching adopted by Microsoft. I know in the NHS it's caused problems with various clinical systems so CCGs/Trusts/Boards are forced to either run a few months behind security patch wise and hope someone else spots the problem, run ludicrously expensive testing of clinical systems in-house and maybe run a month behind or patch and cross their fingers.
At least with previous updates we could remove the offending patch, now MS are less likely to tell us which it was and even if they did we'd have to remove the entire cumulative patch instead.
How many wake up calls were there?
Mine was:
Install Linux, copy /home from old disk, copy a few config files backups from /home/backup to /. New Linux machine complete with a tested recovery procedure in under an hour. Never needed to do a full restore.
Install Windows 95. [Install driver, reboot]x5. Do not install two drivers in a row without rebooting. Failure to comply will require re-installing Windows 95. With practice, I got this down to 11 hours + time required to install software (just games, I did not trust Windows with valuable data).
A more modern example would be Microsoft repeatedly screaming that the value of Windows 10 to users was £0. They phrased that statement as: "Do not click the x to avoid a secret upregrade to 10 when you are not watching."
Just goes to show the initial windoze installation process is borked. It misses the step at the end :
"Now install a linux dual-boot partition so that you still have access to the internet to find out why your windoze system won't do what it should"
This is supposing you have some really good reason to be using Windoze to start with, like gaming or perhaps gaming?
I've actually been thinking of running the WIndows 10 that most probably will come free with my next laptop whether I want it or not, as a VM under the Ubuntu (yes, with Unity; I am the one person, apparently, who actually likes it) Linux that I am definitely going to install on it, just for a laugh and carry-on.
I mean, if they are going to make me pay for it, I might as well see if I can make some sort of use of it, right? A virtual machine that can be restored from a pristine image at any time and with strictly limited access to hardware sounds like a fairly safe environment for running Windows software, after all .....
Actually, the emergency Linux boot partition is only the penultimate step. The ultimate step is to then ask yourself "why the fuck am I booting into Windows when I could boot into Linux instead - something which works and doesn't cost me money?" Which is the reason you'll never see the installation process adopt your suggestion.
"Now install a linux dual-boot partition so that you still have access to the internet to find out why your windoze system won't do what it should"
Funny how I received twice as many downvotes as upvotes (10/5) when I mentioned this in another topic.
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/12/14/reschedule_holiday_party_its_patch_tuesday/#c_3054097
The only difference is, of course, that my Windows 7 doesn't have Internet access. Ever.
I'm guessing the MS fanboys must have been out in force earlier... getting their trolling out of the way before this month's Patch Tuesday offerings bork their machines... again. Especially if they're using the abomination known as Windows 10.
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Don't think it was the Reg or the BBC .... my VirginMedia broadband status says
" We are aware that some customers using windows PCs are having issues getting online following a Microsoft Windows 10 update. We are in contact with Microsoft about this issue and will provide further updates as soon as possible.
Our engineer is working to fix the problem."
So ... looks like VM deployed their engineer to address this and I can only assume that he fixed it!
So I turned my wifes PC off and on again after staring at it for the requisite amount of time and realising it wasn't going to fix itself and all the things I'd just tried hadn't worked.
Fine after a first reboot.
Couple of days later same thing on my own machine. My machine is a bit more annoying as it's a floor down from the router so not as easy to keep an eye on whether connectivity has returned or not. Again, after checking all the cables were fine I just ended up rebooting and was fine.
The previous article to this says that rebooting doesn't always work but my experience from this was that it did the trick on those two machines.
As for "how am I meant to patch this when I can't get online?" - this is no different to those times when your network card driver would go kaput and you'd need to download a new / updated one. The good old days were just as bad and it hasn't always been Microsoft's fault.
"As for "how am I meant to patch this when I can't get online?" - this is no different to those times when your network card driver would go kaput and you'd need to download a new / updated one. "
in the good old days I'd just rollback the previous update... Or failing that hunt down a recovery floppy/bootable CD/USB stick with Linux on it. Thankfully this still works today. :)
That's what you want.
A company insisting on applying automatic updates to all computers with its software installed, without any veto, no hint of release note of what changes or when, and no statement on what is fixed, ever, when a major problem does happen, or whether they even found the cause officially at all.
And then you wonder why people DO NOT WANT that on the machines they run their personal and work lives on.
Windows 7 only had "update and..." on one of them (either restart or shut down), not both, and it only did that if you had it set to "automatically download and install" or "automatically download, but let me decide when to install.) If you had it set to "Notify but don't download" or "Never check", you could shut down and restart without interference.
It's nice to have the choice.
No, I misspoke (er, wrote). It's necessary to have the choice.
When I clicked the Start button, "Restart" and "Shutdown" had been replaced by "Update and Restart" and "Update and Shutdown". Is that new, or have I just missed it in the past?
It just means that there are updates to be installed. When they have been installed, the legends will return to what they were before. Until next time...
It just means that there are updates to be installed.
When they have been installed, the legends will return to what they were before machine may not ever boot again, but if it does you will find either that some bit of hardware no longer works, or some software (including purchased software) may have been deleted, or your account changed to a MS cloud account - which you don't have a password or recovery system for (all your data on by-default full encrypted disk, which has been changed, so no recovery options...), a gamble of "what do you want broken today?"
FTFY.
Just disable the windows update service and reboot.
Then when you feel like it's safe to do an update run, you know what to do.
That's really not the point ... or did you forget the "Joke" icon?
People want control not just over whether they apply any updates, but over which updates they apply and which they eschew. They also, obviously, need a simple no-nonsense statement of what each update does.
I fully understand that Microsoft's job is made easier if they can simply assume that every user has all the available updates installed, so the update process starts from a known and well-understood baseline on each occasion ... but users do need to be able to refuse or remove updates that break their systems. Only when Microsoft can demonstrate that all their patches have been thoroughly tested before release, and found not to cause problems, should they be allowed to even consider removing user control over the update process.
Just disable the windows update service and reboot.
Then when you feel like it's safe to do an update run, you know what to do.
Whilst this may seem sensible advice, it is in fact one of the best ways to cause future problems.
Firstly, before you turn off the update service, you need to be sure that all downloaded updates have been installed. Having particuallr installed updates hanging around can cause problems when you decide to update other software and will cause problems with any future Windows updates.
Secondly, with the update service turned off, unless you are disciplined, it is very easy for a month or two go by and before you know it your system hasn't been updated for over a year. Just had a Windows 8.1 system that hadn't been updated since June 2015 (updates were turned off due to the release of GWX), it took the best part of a week to get this system fully updated and restored to full working order. Installing all updates was the simplest way of getting the required updates and their precursors installed, However, as we know during this time MS have released updates to the update service and a few hundred updates, which give Windows Update a problem and cause a system to seemingly hang for a few days whilst it sorts itself out...
Personally, I'm happy for most important updates to be auto installed, with only those that touch the network adaptor and/or stack getting put to one side and being applied with great care - lesson learnt with XP and still applies to 7, 8.1 and especially with 10 which is known to have an update service that takes exception to AV software...
"Whilst this may seem sensible advice, it is in fact one of the best ways to cause future problems."
currentProblems: Windows 10 update loop, broken start menu, broken Web cam, broke Internet
futureProblems: A week of updating
err...
if(currentProblems < futureProblems){
Windows.Update();}
else {
Windows.NoUpdate();
Windows.Offline();
Install.Linux();}
ust had a Windows 8.1 system that hadn't been updated since June 2015 (updates were turned off due to the release of GWX), it took the best part of a week to get this system fully updated and restored to full working order.
I could take a Linux system of similar vintage, and on a decent-enough connection have it fully updated inside an hour, maybe hour and a half for a slower system. Have done 2yo LTS releases in 40 minutes on single-core laptops. And one reboot at the end of it to make sure the process is completed, with normal shutdown/startup speeds as the entire update process is done in one hit, the restart only to pick up any kernel changes.
Why people think that anything more than 2 hours is acceptable, or a long shutdown/start up is acceptable, is still beyond me.
Then you have broken the EULA... the numbered paragraph below is from the W10 EULA.
6. Updates. The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.
I suppose M$ could revoke the license, make the O/S non-genuine, and make life (more) miserable than it is... naaaaahhh they wouldn't do that... would they?
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This post has been deleted by its author
I think I had this problem 5 days ago : my wifi gave only a "limited connexion" : was seeing the wifi networks but unable to connect.
Runing the "ipconfig " command showed an ipv4 address 169.254.xxx.
I tried a lot of solutions found on internet :
Restarting the pc was of no help.
I think that deactivating the wifi connexion, reactivating it and powering off the machine fixed the problem at next power on (ip address 192.168....). Problem did not reappear.
Of late there has been a great deal of discussion about DDOS attacks and so forth and the possibility that a foreign power might bring the internet down, thus causing huge economic damage. The recent disconnection of a few computers is a broad hint to ensure that no one will forget exactly who the boss is.
"How many more times does microsoft need to c o ck things up before everyone gets the message?"
A minor point - cock in cock up is not rude. It's a printing term from cold metal when, if a letter wasn't inserted properly in the forme so it stuck up slightly at an angle, there was an area of bad print around it; the letter was cocked (as in trigger mechanism) up, and so a cock up.
The Reg doesn't care in any case.
<pedant alert>
Cock up is even older than that...it came from archery where the cock feather is at right angles to the bowstring when the arrow is correctly nocked and the arrow can fly true when loosed. If fitted the other way round the arrow flies off at a very strange angle as you have made a 'cock-up'
It wouldn't be the first time that an expression arose independently in different trades. I doubt many printers faced with a forme with a sticking up letter thought "ooh that's just like an arrow the wrong way round. I wonder what they call that?" He'd just think, "O bugger, the apprentice has cocked it up, better get it fixed and hope the boss doesn't notice the scrap paper."
My point wasn't about priority of invention, just that the term isn't in any sense rude or coarse.
So, all the open source touchy-feely community bollocks they're spouting at the moment isn't worth a bean if there's no transparency. I can get over the forced patches because that's the only way most of humanity is ever going to stay up to date... but please let those of us that have to support others get the information we need. Luckily, I worked out the ipconfig /renew fix almost straight away, but i imagine there are many people phoning their ISP's, getting nowhere - or worse, taking their machines to shops to be charged good money for no reason.
If I could wave a wand, I might even consider putting the old Microsoft back in place.. it was at least able to tell us what it was patching, even if it was a year or more overdue.
I beg to differ. I've worked in quite a few places that use Windows and Macs. It just takes a bit of work and learning to integrate the two. If you can't manage that then you really, really don't belong in IT.
A school I personally know of ran Mac Servers, iMac, MacBook, iPads and iPods. The Principal wanted to have the iPods networked in so they could use Graphic Calculator software and upgrade it instead of paying a couple of hundred dollars for a dedicated hardware device. Senior Apple people spent $100,000 in time trying to get the iPods online before throwing in the towel. Mac hardware not wanting to work with other Mac hardware…..PRICELESS. Based on your own words I guess the Apple engineers just really, really don’t belong in IT.
It isn’t the only time that Apple gear didn’t want to play nice and the Apple engineers again threw the hands in the air in defeat.
If an update re-boot takes more than a minute or two, then assuming you're not leaving updates for months at a time, I'd suggest something seems to be wrong with your PCs.
Maybe a poor AV program interfering with the updating? 3rd party full disk encryption not working right?
Spent a lot of time trying to fix the LAN connection on my son's PC. Strangely the connection was fine using a USB WLAN dongle, so I was testing different cables, switch ports, restarting the DHCP server and tailing logs, checking for driver and firmware updates etc. until I happened to run the correct magic netsh command. Glad to know the root cause.
For the whingers, crap happens and there's even a name for it.
For all those niggling loss of connectivity issues my users used to experience across North America, I used to remote in, turn off the NIC power management in device manager & drop a batch file on the desktop that performed:
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /flushdns
netsh winsock reset
restart the machine
The last part was required as the result of the first command severing my RDP connection or Lync\Skype For Business session.
A quick fix & a step closer to beer o'clock.
Is it just me, or is that not the obvious workaround?
Skip DHCP altogether and set up a static IP address for the machine - you can do that in Windows, can't you?
The only piece of information you need to do that is the network address block - in most home routers that's likely to be 192.168.1.0/24 - and then choose any one of the mid-range numbers for the last octet to avoid conflict with the router and other dynamically-assigned addresses that might be in use.
I have quite a few devices on my home network and for me it's helpful to know the IP addresses of some of them (I have a raspi to do my internal DNS). The mobile phones are about the only thing that use DHCP in here...
"What is the difference between Microsoft distributing (or some other neutral word to describe what they did) and "sneaking out" a patch? One is journalism and the other is propaganda."
Nope. One is the use of terminology appropriate to a particular company's ethics, established practices, and repute.
The other is the use of terminology appropriate to a particular company's ethics, established practices, and repute.
Amazing, the way Microsoft is allowed to get away with whatever its ruling elite wish. With a financial turnover the size of a small nation's economy, there's no reason why Microsoft could not be viewed as a hostile country -- and dealt with as such. Its track record over recent years has been to:
1) Invade millions of computers worldwide;
2) Install software the content of which it refuses to divulge;
3) Place telemetry on those computers so as to monitor user behaviour;
4) Attempt by systematic fraud to replace a computer owner's OS of choice with one of its choosing (and in many thousands of instances, achieve exactly that objective);
5) Repeatedly disrupt the operation of a user's computer with secret unsought modifications;
6) Consistently lie about its practices.
This latest example is one of the most telling, because no legitimate reason exists for Microsoft to be messing around with a computer user's internet connectivity. Illegitimate reasons, however, abound. . .
Invasive. Secretive. Disruptive. And dedicated to covert surveillance . . . If Microsoft were to be treated as a hostile country rather than the hostile company it now so clearly is, there'd be plenty of talk on both sides of the Atlantic about how best to deal with it: disrupting its international trade; freezing its assets; putting its leadership on travel black-lists, etc etc.
Looking at today's mainstream meeja headlines though, all I see is yet more tut-tutting about that awful Mr Putin, that nasty Russia, and how it keeps hacking politicians' emails. I have yet to see any reportage of that malignant nation state called Microsoft, one which after hacking computers -- never mind emails -- for so long is now actually breaking 'em.
Plenty on here have said, fuck Microsoft. Seems to me, prosecuting Microsoft would be considerably more satisfying.
I'm forced by ineptitude on the part of my kids teachers to run Windows 10 on his laptop because they were too dim to understand how to run chrome on fedora. Trying to update his copy of windows 10 this morning, 30 minutes spent checking updates, 45 minutes after that the download is 46% finished. In another hour it will request a reboot, no doubt, and then another 30 minutes installing the updates. I upgraded fedora 24 to 25 in 10 minutes on my desktop (okay, the SSD helped that), but really, 2 hours+ just for a system update. And why do the fonts look like shit out of the box on windows? Gott it's ugly as fsck this UI.
but really, 2 hours+ just for a system update.
And our mystery shilldownvoter, no doubt, would not dare to try and justify why 2hr+ updates (try a fresh 7 install - more than 2 days to update and MS Shills think that's OK!)
And why do the fonts look like shit out of the box on windows? Gott it's ugly as fsck this UI.
Now now.. Don't you know it's the epitome of professionalism and any think else is "amateurish by comparison"?
Yeah, I thought Win10 looked crap as well. It is an improvement.. on 8.. But even compared to 98 it's pretty rubbish.
In my experience with one machine, the wireless and ethernet adapters couldn't get an IP address from the router. I used the netsh script to fix the problem. How does a Microsoft update fix the problem if you can't connect to the update servers? A user with a single machine seems to have a serious problem here.
W7 and W8 losing their way and deciding, out of the blue, that the network they have been talking to since they woke up, is now an "Unknown" network, and because of that it's "Public" and no you can't access the Internet because suddenly everything is unsafe because Windoze has gone all paranoid on you. Usually there would be a link under the park bench icon in the "Network and Sharing Center" to switch it back, but the depth of the O/S's paranoia has that option disabled. WTF!
When the user has to go in and change the MAC address of the NIC to get Windoze to re-recognize a network, one that it has been using for AGES, well... that's just crazy!
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