Botched Microsoft update knocks Windows 8, 10 PCs offline – regardless of ISP A broken software update for Windows 8 and 10 is knackering internet connectivity for users of several ISPs in the UK, Europe and quite likely beyond. Virgin Media in Blighty is the latest provider to confirm the dodgy code is knocking a number of its customers offline. Proximus in Belgium also says a Windows 10 update is …
If it *is* a UK-only problem, then I would hope all the Bad Guys (TM) in the world are off this week.
Because the implications would be there is a buried SPoF within the UKs telecoms infrastructure just waiting to be deliberately (and obscurely) exploited.
Forget blowing up buses - if you really want to bring the UK down, stop people shopping online from 18th December.
Pure speculation on my part but Windows updates do not happen all at once across the world, so it is possible that this may happen later for others.
It would be nice if someone would get Wireshark and the logs out and do some bloody diagnostics to find out where the problem really lies. It's not rocket science - you can't see network traffic.
My Neighbour had this last week. My older desktop, connected to the superhub with an ethernet cable. Wouldn't get through to the internet either with Wifi or ethernet, yet my phone could connect to the router and work. I couldn't work out what the hell was going on, it just would *not* connect to the internet. In the end I clicked on the reset network connections option in the network settings tile abomination.* That sorted it.
*I don't know windows 10 very well, I tend to avoid Windows these days. So I did just worked through the thing logically and hit upon that as working.
Dunno, but since I just lost Internet connectivity trying to check an email before I flew out of the house, I did a quick check of the network settings and the first entry in my DNS list was an IPV6 address and since my router does not have IPV6 turned on, I tried disabling the IPV6 protocol on my wifi adaptor and I was back online with only the expected two IPV4 DNS addresses showing.
Maybe something's not timing out as it should??
Just a thought - gotta dash....!
> It's because of Brexit ....
Admittedly I haven't followed brexit beyond what the BBC has reported on it, but I was under the impression the UK wanted to divorce itself from the European Union, not the entire human race. Not that I would blame them, we are a sorry lot right now. I'm pretty sure miserable Britain wants to suffer like the rest of us with its modern conveniences. Though there is a degree of dramatic irony in being so accustomed to having to "Turn it off and back on again" to fix a problem that we're now trying that with entire countries....
Fast Startup Mode isn't correctly reseting the network adapters on resume?
Information about power management setting on a network adapter
Work college needed to sort a service upgrade/move issue and just could not get past the first "Home or Business prompt" for hours.
Still think it is IPv6 related, but we are not meant to question that, it's the modern way don't you know, old school "leave my f'ing LAN addresses alone" attitude is so last decade!
---
OK reading the comment above I could be wrong but won't retract this as I hate those "deleted by author gaps"
> Still think it is IPv6 related
Hardly, It's been taking out my wife's W10 PC most of last week and that is getting it's DHCP from my CentOS server. The server is sending DHCP responses and they aren't being acted upon. I'm only handing out IPv4 addresses.
Exactly - If the MS update (rein)forces v6 as the priority protocol and deprecates v4 do you not see how that could be a problem where v6 is not supported or served?
That's what I obviously failed to get across, not having a v6 route or address may stop the thing working if that is what it expects to use. If I leave the default configuration on 7 or later I will often see delays as it tries to get/use v6 addresses for resources before falling back to v4.
I just disable v6 until there is a pressing reason to do otherwise, when I cannot disable v6 it better be fully supported on the route.
This post has been deleted by its author
Guys, El Reg is located in Britain*, as is most of their readership. However, the hardware that this is affecting is everywhere. It's happening in Brazil, the United States...in lots of places. And it's a supreme irony that Windows 10 requires you to be online to use it and yet once again here we are watching it furiously stomping on its own dick. I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned. If computers were people we'd have convened at the Hauge by now and put Microsoft on trial for genocide.
What other branch of engineering allows so many to believe "Build Now, Plan Later" is a recipe for anything but disaster? Not that it's just Microsoft. My entire industry is just one glorious failure after another, set to hip commercials showing off the 'cutting edge' of technology. The new iThing 9000: Dance madly with us on the lip of the volcano! And everytime someone falls into the molten glory hole of terrible engineering practices, we just accept this, like it's normal or something.
@Brewster's Angle Grinder
'Out of date information is sufficient to flaw El Reg's readers Microsoft haters.'
I'm not an MS hater, but have become more and more frustrated/pissed-off/angry with what MS have done to what was generally a very good operating system. Instead of giving us a consistent and logical upgrade to Windows 7, they forced an ugly and non-intuitive UI on us with Windows 8. Then after an almost universal 'WTF?' from users, they gave us 8.1 which still didn't fix the fundamental UI issues. Then they went all 'as-a-service' with 10, forced almost everyone to upgrade to 10 whether they wanted to or not, gave us a still broken UI with forced updates we have no control over, rampant telemetry which is almost impossible to suppress, common networking issues (seriously, how do you break the implementation of a standard network protocol which has been used by all previous versions of the same OS for almost 20 years?) as well as other shit.
MS could have avoided all this quite easily by giving users what they actually needed in the OS, rather than forcing illogical and unnecessary changes on them for no good reason. Unfortunately, for the majority of those same users there is no alternative available to them because they are not technically minded and have only ever used Windows, so they will just suck it up and muddle through regardless even if they now detest using Windows.
>MS could have avoided all this quite easily by giving users what they actually needed in the OS, >rather than forcing illogical and unnecessary changes on them for no good reason. Unfortunately, for >the majority of those same users there is no alternative available to them because they are not >technically minded and have only ever used Windows, so they will just suck it up and muddle >through regardless even if they now detest using Windows.
I thought most of that lot had splashed out on Macs, or given up on desktop computing altogether
Microsoft is a landlord who simply wants you to move out. I was able to take most of my stuff with me but I had to leave behind my beloved MS Access. Moving away from MS is the end of an era and although I am a little sad I have made a lovely new home in Mint Linux. I am encouraging my Windows customers to come to Linux too.
> Would that be the box thats from a 3rd party site, about the windows Technical Preview, about upgrades written "MARCH 18, 2015 6:50 AM"So we don't need fake news. Out of date information is sufficient to flaw El Reg's readers Microsoft haters.
Oh really?
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msnz/en_NZ/pdp/Windows-10-Home/productID.320414600
Requirements
Required Processor : 1 GHz processor or faster
Required Memory : 1 GB RAM for 32-bit; 2 GB for 64-bit
[..]
Required connectivity : Internet access (fees may apply)
5th item down on the list. As appears when visiting microsoft.com from NZ, then looking at the "learn more about windows 10" link (under the left hand pic in the second row of ads), then to "Shop now" (way down under a massive wankfest of "how great this shitpile is", then a second "shop now" button (coz, like, we're MS and we're to fucked in the head to realise you've already chosen to go to our shop and don't really need to chose to go there again), then Windows 10, then Windows 10 home, then "requirements" (I have adblock+ and NoScript in Firefox on Mint 17.1. APB was untouched, but I turned on "temporarily allow ms.com, msstore.com and digitalriver", left a lot of other scripts (like a hell of a lot of 3rd party scripts - MS to stupid to even write their own website and have to rely very heavily on others?) off)
Looks like current information, nothing outdated about it. If it is outdated, then MS needs to fix their shop page. They also got the price wrong - "NZ$199.00" - should be "you'd be an idiot to pay even 1cent for this when so much better, non-slurping OS's are available completely free"
El Reg, can we have a flying pig icon, text something like "the OP is telling porkies" (or "the OP works for MS or somesuch will do).
(Gotta remember to use more rat poison when feeding these MS trolls...)
That's to purchase a download only version. I'm not sure how you imagine you would be able to achieve that without internet access.
Windows 10 will function perfectly well without an internet connection - albeit with very limited utility, in this day and age. And by 'perfectly well', I mean with a dog's dinner of a Start menu.
That's to purchase a download only version. I'm not sure how you imagine you would be able to achieve that without internet access.
Really?
So why, then, on https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-10-Home/productID.319937100, with the USB flash drive option checked, does it still state you need an internet connection to run Win10?
You don't normally download USB drives. At least, I haven't yet found any method to download them.
And why would you need 20g of HDD space to "purchase a download only version"? I know MS stuff is a waste of space but surely even they don't require 20G to dl a <4g file?
How about the "1 GHz processor or faster", or the "1 GB RAM for 32-bit; 2 GB for 64-bit"? Is there something about downloading from MS that uses a lot of more CPU cycles than normal? (AV going into overload or something?). And how does downloading a 64bit file require twice the ram of downloading a 32bit file? What about downloading txt files? Do they only require a few KB of ram? What if I was do download a 4K 3D video file to copy to USB and play on my TV, would I need 20G of ram? How does that work?
And how about the "DirectX® 9 graphics processor with WDDM driver" - How do you need something like that to "purchase a download only version"? Or the "Microsoft account required for some features. Watching DVDs requires separate playback software"? Surely purchasing a USB stick with software on it does not somehow require separate software to view DVD's (aside from whatever else you have on your system).
MS's own website says you need an internet connection to run 10 purchased on a USB stick. Forgive me for taking MS at their word1 about minimum specs as published on their website. If the specs are wrong, MS needs to correct their website.
1 No, I wouldn't ever take them at their word... I'm quite sane, my mother had me tested.
MSGrrrrl: I saw this when I Googled it: "It's thus worth adding that the Windows 10 technical preview has these requirements". The articles below this say that the Windows Acccount and Internet Connection were not required in the release version of Windows 10.
Slight confusion, perhaps not really Microsoft's fault, but the user's for not reading the first article properly or completely.
This post has been deleted by its author
> Info box at the top of the page, above the results: "A Microsoft account and Internet access."
Which comes from a 3rd party site referring to a technical preview. This is where you should be looking: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-10-specifications
And the only reference to Internet access is this;
"An internet connection is required to perform the upgrade. Windows 10 is a large file – about 3 GB – and Internet access (ISP) fees might apply."
Thats funny. Our W10 LTSB digital signs arent even on the network and they seem to cope just fine.
Pedantic yes. We havent been hit by this bug on or network pcs but we do use 2k12r2 dhcp servers so perhaps they didnt bork their own DHCP. We use fast boot too. Our normal users cant change any network settings.
"A Microsoft account and internet access" are required by Win10 in order for you to use your Microsoft cloud account from Win10. Since I don't do that, I don't require a Microsoft account, and unless I want to use the internet, I don't require internet access.
It's alright though, that was intended for people who don't know what they are doing.
I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned.
I don't see where agile comes in all of a sudden.
It's a standard Microsoft update.
Only now it comes without docummentation in the middle of the night and borks you off the Internet so as the plan was to make you dependable on an Internet connection, there is some sort of weird reality collision (MEGASHRUG) and as a civilian you are a bit screwed, right.
Anyway it was probably Putin all along, out to undermine democracy. You know it's true!
<quote>And it's a supreme irony that Windows 10 requires you to be online to use it and yet once again here we are watching it furiously stomping on its own cut off its dick. I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned.</quote>
There, FTFY!!!
<quote>If computers were people we'd have convened at the Hauge by now and put Microsoft on trial for genocide.</quote> BUT, if that were to pass, who would face the firing squad??? Bill G? Ballmer? SatNad?
[quote]
What other branch of engineering allows so many to believe "Build Now, Plan Later" is a recipe for anything but disaster?
[/quote]
Looked at the vehicle and roads industry lately? Initially it was built ad hoc, & later planned but added to the original layout. Just look at how the London streets run!
Operating systems have grown in the same way. Built up layer upon layer & still having issues from the original design flaws. Same reason for the Y2k panic... "This code will be completely replaced by then!" Nope, just patched & built upon. Windows is not different, nor is Unix, iOS or Linux (which, I believe are respectively, based on it* & designed to be a free 100% compatible alternative to it).
Then you get strange interactions between your new bit of code and something written 10 years ago, that no one remembers even existed...
*I could be wrong, I often am. But you have to go with what you know & just note & question your assumptions as you do...
Pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with ISP whatsoever. My users on remote sites get their IP (or not, as the case may be!!) from our SBS2011 or 2012R2 boxes. None of our users at any of our sites get their IP from the router. So I don't see how it can relate to the router, and therefore the ISP. I think it's purely client-side (since our servers haven't been updated/bounced for a while).
And the problem first reared on one laptop on 7th November. Nothing would get it to connect, whilst the rest of the office was happily working. Got said laptop sent to different office and it connected fine.
funny enough we've been having random DHCP issues with *some* win10 boxes for a while. All are win10 dell OptiPlex 7040AIO or 7040 micros (both have the same Intel NIC chipset) win7 works fine. Symptoms are random but users lose there connection and when you check the machine has picked a 169.x.x.x address up, normally a ipconfig /release renew fixes it or a reboot but not always. This can happen even when the PC is well within its DHCP lease time so shouldn't even be trying to renew its IP.
" users lose there connection and when you check the machine has picked a 169.x.x.x address up,"
That's an APIPA address - it's the IP range microsoft PCs give themselves if they detect a network connection, but don't get a response to a DHCP request. It was designed to allow home networks of PCs to have LAN parties back in the late 90's to get all PCs on the LAN to have a working IP address so they could connect to each others PC and play network connected games together.
I knew there was another reason for paying a fiver a month for a static IP.
That would be a WAN IP address. This issue appears to relate to DHCP which manages LAN IP addresses.
In more detailed terms: The issue seems to relate to the way people's routers are handing out addresses to Windows 10 machines on their LAN (or the way those machines respond to that advisement). Your static IP address relates to the way the world communicates with your router over the public internet.
Well he could be using his fixed IP address directly on his PC. I do one some of mine.
The issue isn't to do with the router except is as much that most people use their router as their DHCP server. But regardless of what you are using as a DHCP server W10 was knaggered it. The DHCP server is happily responding to requests and offering configs and it looks like W10 is just ignoring these responses.
It appears to be the DHCP client in Win 10.
Customers with Win 10 and DHCP, as apposed to customers who use manual configuration, have been a headache. It's the ISPs and retailers who are left to pick up the pieces 'cause of Redmond's screw-up. Don't we just love he new update mechanism in Win 10? SPIT, SPUTTER, CURSE! No way in hell!
there was a very good reason not to 'upgrade' to win10 from win7 while it was free
However, how does the borked update affect someone who runs his virgin(spit) modem in cable mode and uses his own belkin router to connect the computers/printers/backup hard drive to each and the internet?
....Started seeing it last week as well, although in the first instance there had just been a lot of work done at the customer end, so it wasn't obvious what the problem was. Looked like a CPE issue for some time. Seen this across all sorts of different devices handing out DHCP leases.
Try disabling power management on the network adaptor, should keep it alive in sleep:
Control Panel > Network & Sharing Centre > Local Area Connection > Properties
'Power Management' Tab - Untick 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power', usually does the trick :-)
(Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!)
so - if an MS update breaks your PC and those of your employees, so they can't work but you have to pay them anyway, how do you recover that cost from MS? If they're using innocent bystanders as beta testers (which they must be, anything that borks things this much would surely not pass a decent ISO-compliant software test/QA/release process), then they should be paying businesses for taking that risk ....
You agreed to the EULA which says that you owe MS everything and they owe you nothing. If you want compensation you'd have to convince a court that the EULA wasn't a reasonable contract (it isn't) and that you basically agreed to it under duress (you don't have any choice). Then you might be able to go after the compensation you (and all the rest of us) rightly deserve. However MS will spend more of legal fees than you, so they'll win.
"Then you might be able to go after the compensation you (and all the rest of us) rightly deserve. However MS will spend more of legal fees than you, so they'll win."
Government's should do this, and I'm sure they can take on MS.
EU seems keen on doing this sort of thing.
Government's should do this, and I'm sure they can take on MS.
EU seems keen on doing this sort of thing.
Sadly they don't seem keen on wiping the whole EULA thing off the face of the planet. I really wish they would as no one else it likely to manage. Of course if the judge's PC were to bork part way through the trial it might help. If they felt the pain the rest of us do they might well reach of the black cap.
Of course if the judge's PC were to bork part way through the trial it might help.
One of those forced reboots while the judge is busy writing the summing-up notes, with no chance to save (and auto-save files somehow wiped), and a 40min+40min shutdown and restart for "installing updates" should pretty much seal it I think.
(Disclaimer : Never inflicted myself with the horror that is 10, so no idea how much actual warning you're given)
"He said the issue is definitely a DHCP problem caused by a broken Windows Update, "although we’ve not been able to identify the cause, it’s an extremely quick fix."
He added: "It’s caused a great deal of disruption for our business customers as it required a site visit for those we couldn’t talk through it on the phone."
The cause of the bug is so far unclear, although Plusnet has blamed an unspecified “third-party update”. The main issue appears to be a recent Windows Update release – but it is hard to tell which one is at fault because Redmond is so secretive about exactly what's inside each upgrade bundle.
The Register has repeatedly asked Microsoft for an explanation. The software giant has remained silent. "
Looking at several posts here, it appears that the problem has been around intermittently, and/or only affecting certain hardware, prior to the update. I'd guess there's been a DHCP Heisenbug for a while and Microsoft just issued an update that was supposed to fix the problem but has in fact made it worse. Which is about par for the course.
yep we've had this issue since around aug\sep time. Started with just 1 user who was getting the issue maybe once or twice a week. We are mainly a win7 shop maybe around 220 boxes, so not that many win10, maybe around 40 or so now. Last week we had the issue on 6 win10 boxes
The gov agencies want to know/record who (which internal IP) was logged on, lan side, at all times. Which was why win 10 was pushed harder and faster. Time was against them to do it properly. The shell /interface were done first with the providence that "updates" would continue to open up. M$ screwed up windows update deployment this time. I mean again.I am astrounded nobody actually came up with that conclusion yet.
I'm going on break. will leave you lot to it.
Recently had a series of issues with the missus' laptop (a pretty shite Packard Bell, but she likes it and I can't afford to replace it any time soon) getting a 169.x.x.x IP adress at boot but not mine, nor the (wired) desktop machine, nor the (wired) clever dick central heating timer. Even went as far as uninstalling her wireless adapter driver and letting it be re-found (Worked for a bit) but (touch wood) it seems to be OK now after another brief hiccup a few days back.
One of our desktop PCs effectively lost its wired Ethernet connection to the network, but was still Connected At 1Gbps to the router. Suspecting SW, I decided to let it Cheese Ripen (do nothing).
Today I read this column, entered the two incantations listed in the column, and my PC was magically fixed. Reboot was slower than normal, but it's on the road to recovery.
Thank you !!
I felt a disturbance in the force. Like millions of voices crying out in terror and being suddenly silenced..
And if felt good. Like just so much waste was gone. So much poison removed from the universe. Wonder what it was? Oh. Windows machines going offline, making the net quieter and a little more secure...
MS are getting progressively more useless as this update business. Massive 3 GB downloads that re-install the OS in the background and bork it. Issues like this and then bundling all updates into a single package so that you cannot even decline the one with the issue.
And we are supposed to trust them. Unfortunately all the crys of just use Linux xxxxx are irrelevant, for a techie it is doable but Linux is starting to show just as many security issues with even greater difficulty in patching for the non-techie. For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed.
The only thing that may wake Microsoft up that they have crap quality is if the screw over every Windows PC on the planet. The trouble is that for years faults in software have been accepted as the suppliers simply do not care or use it as a way to enforce upgrades. If cars or washing machines operated on the lines there would be major companies out of business and court actions all over the place. Software, you have a right to use it, you never own it and there is no guarantee that it does what it says it can.......
And we are supposed to trust them. Unfortunately all the crys of just use Linux xxxxx are irrelevant, for a techie it is doable but Linux is starting to show just as many security issues with even greater difficulty in patching for the non-techie. For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed.
I have several elderly non-tech people using Mint and Ubuntu. I can't say I give them support because the only calls I hear about their machines are "I didn't know computers could be this easy to use". Once the Linux install is done, the security issues are over. The worry about them following some "malware detected, scan your system now" banner add to a phishing or drive-by site is gone (ok, that's largely ad blocker but still, they are immune from drive-bys now!). No IE toolbars.
Updates and patching? A breeze on Linux systems. They have this nice central package manager that takes seconds (not 48hrs+ in the case of Win7!) to work out what it needs, and negligible system impact while it downloads and installs said patches. Unlike with MS's crapware, when you shut the system down there's no multi-hour "please wait, installing updates" crap, and when it's next started the patches are completely installed, no second round of "you cannot use your computer for a long while, because we're busy doing God-knows-what, trashing your disk (and maybe your data), taking hours to do an update process that should've been done once, last night, before you shut it down, and should've taken moments rather than hours to do it".
No idea where you get the "greater difficulty in patching". In all my years of Linux use (mostly Debian-based) I've just let the package manager handle that. Urgent updates come out fairly quickly after a fault is found, not on a once a month basis as with MS!.
As to "For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed." - such as? Most small businesses need basic email and word processor/spreadsheet stuff - Thunderbird and Libre Office covers that for that vast majority of businesses. Few have any real need for databases but there's plenty of non-MS stuff out there which outperforms MS products on every front (especially price).
Agree with the rest of your post though :)
I am in the UK, I use Virgin Media and it's not affected me. Seems a bit premature to blame a Windows 10 update by Microsoft when problem instances are so constrained. Is there not even the remotest chance that the small number of affected users have installed some other app that's caused the problem. Or it a better revenue strategy to blame Microsoft?
Windows 10 told us it had updated itself. When we shut it down to restart it didn't, just sat there with a nice blue screen. Tried rebooting it a number of times but no luck. Reinstalled 7 from the manufacturers recovery partition, left it to do updates, and then it would take 10 minutes to run any programme because Windows update was consuming all the memory. Found some information on patches which cured that then of course, now update was working, more updates, finally after 147 more updates it seems to be working the way it used to. What a palaver, surely Microsoft have lost the plot now?
Today I noticed that my 3 devices (two laptops and one tablet, all on Wifi) had 'forgotten' they had a connection. After a great deal of pressing 'manually connect' and 'display stored connection' buttons, I just pressed the auto connect button on the router and all the devices started working. I don't know if this has fixed the problem or not - no doubt I'll find out when I switch on tomorrow....
...if this is of any significance, but I was noseying round on my sisters computer the other day (Win 10 upgraded laptop job) and the Wi-fi had been connected for over 20 days, despite her shutting it down completely on separate occasions. I don't recall this happening on Win 7 (the previous OS). I think Win 10 doesn't power down properly. Torvalds might just save computing (as reported elsewhere on El Reg)!
Well I run a small business on linux so it can be done. Ok Linux has a few security issues from time to time but patching is ridiculously easy. Unlike ms, I get a description of what each updates does, I can read bug reports and change logs, and decide which individual updates I run. Security updates and upgraded software are separated out. Updates run in seconds not days!
In which universe is this supposed to be worse than the windows 10 experience ? I simply don't buy the explanation that you have to be a techie wonder to click 'install' and enter your password. You don't. Its time ms fanboys admitted that windows is becoming a nightmare to troubleshoot and maintain because of Redmond's poor design choices. No one knows what's in those patches - and no one knows how long their copy of windows 10 will keep working for before the next screw up.
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