overhaul?
Start by overhauling DMCA, continue by keelhauling HBO.
It turns out King Joffrey isn't the biggest scumbag at HBO after all. A father says lawyers at the cable TV network demanded his 13-year-old daughter's artwork be taken off the internet after she drew a lovely picture titled "winter is coming" and posted the image to arts'n'craft website RedBubble. "My daughter, who happens …
I don't think that "winter is coming" is a "well known phrase". It is a trite observation. Winter is always coming, or it's here, or it's going. But it's not a famous proverb and I don't think it's a quotation and I don't think it's said unless someone sees you planting primroses in November. Which is what you're supposed to do for all that I know.
Nike trademarked "Just Do It", which is trite plus, but people are still allowed to say it.
I'm not a lawyer, but trademarks exist only in a context. So, your trademark can be a cock (Le Coq Sportif) while someone else's is (Kellogg corn flakes). The duplication doesn't lead to confusion.
In this young artist's case, I will suggest "When I am a cold woman I shall wear purple".
I am not sure about the hair but this comes to mind from the late Gerry & Sylvia Anderson.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/49ufo_files/03files2/Sci_Fi_Girls_UFO.html
"never explained, never alluded to"
"Aso, how could one have trademark or copyright on "Winter is Coming" beggars belief."
It's not a problem unique to the USA. The UK Olympic(TM) Committee trademarked lots of words related to The Olympics(TM) and did a heavy handed clamp down on any use of "their" trademarks. Hence poets were stopped from using the words "Olympic(TM)" or "gold(TM)" in their works and the poor owner of the Olympic café was told to take down his sign.
It seems insanity that the trade mark process permits organisations to trademark words and phrases in common usage.
Presumably this Wikipedia page infringes copyright as does this movie. Those naughty, naughty Americans infringed copyright when they launched a cyber attack on Iran and should be subject to their own DMCA slapdown.
That issue is more complicated than your posting suggests. Various words and symbols relating to the Olympics are subject to wide protection in addition to any registered trade marks because of the 1995 Olympic Symols Protection Act (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/32/enacted). The specific Regulations (the version for England can be found here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/2898/contents/made) brought in for the 2012 London Games merely added extra details to the existing measures. The UK legislation is a reflection of obligations the country faces as a consequence of various international treaties.
Agree. I distinctly remember the IOC hounding a long-standing local business out of its "Olympic Pizza" name, when Vancouver hosted the 2010 games.
Corporate bullying in these matters isn't very productive. There is enough tension already between "valid"* and "invalid" (above) defense of trademarks that pointlessly reminding people of the overreach of DMCA et al is liable to result in a well-deserved backlash at some point. How else do you explain single-issue parties like the Pirate Party scoring more than a few freetards' votes?
* On the other hand, some nitwit real estate promoter set up a brand-spanking-new "Olympic Realty" in Whistler just in time for the games and was all surprised when she got nailed.
Absolutely correct.
Think of Kleenex.
I wonder how you could overhaul the law though.
Commercial vs Non Commercial use?
Not allow phrases to be trade marked?
e.g. "Where's the beef?" Should Wendy's be allowed to trade mark the phrase that they made popular from one of their commercials back in the 80's? (I think that they did)
Or Ohio State University changing their name to The Ohio State University so that they could trademark the name to protect their brand from T-Shirt makers back in the late 80's.
I am showing my age... ;-) The point is that I don't know how they can fix the TM laws. I mean its easier to fix the patent laws... e.g. invalidate software patents or 'business process patents' (e.g. shopping carts) is actually easier. Especially now that Sen. Reid is out of Congress.
"This has nothing to do with DMCA, it is plain old good trademark law and the idiotic "use it or lose" clause in it. That clause is long overdue for clarification and relaxation.
Aso, how could one have trademark or copyright on "Winter is Coming" beggars belief."
It's not even a problem with trademark law or the "use it or lose it" clause, and there's really nothing wrong with trademarking a phrase such as "winter is coming" (copyrighting it would be an entirely different matter). Trademarks apply only to specific commercial uses. Things like Cadbury's trademark on the colour purple are often brought up as examples of ridiculous trademarks, but in reality that trademark is only for the specific shade of purple when used on a chocolate bar. If you make a chocolate bar that looks too much like a Cadbury's one, you'll be in trouble. If you make any other product that colour - a car, hat, book, whatever - there's nothing Cadbury's can do about it, nor would there be any reason for them to want to (although there can be some grey areas if, for example, some other food is involved that isn't explicitly a chocolate bar but could be seen as in competition with them).
As the article notes:
"HBO's trademark covers clothing, mugs, drinking glasses, hats, bags, mouse pads and similar tat."
That means that not only is random non-commercial artwork not covered at all, but neither are many commercial products. Someone could advertise a car using the phrase, and there would be absolutely nothing HBO could do about it.
Basically, the problem here is no the DMCA, it's not trademark law, it's not any specific clause within trademark law, and it's nothing to do with the generally problematic state of intellectual property law. The problem is entirely that HBO are being arseholes.
If you make a chocolate bar that looks too much like a Cadbury's one, you'll be in trouble.
I think this shows where the problem lies. The Cadbury's trademark applies to a fairly narrow set of products, whereas the HBO one covers "clothing, mugs, drinking glasses, hats, bags, mouse pads and similar tat" *. The HBO trademark applies to a commonly-used sentence on a wide group of products that often carry messages.
If I sell a chocolate bar in purple foil, then it's reasonable to claim that it's counterfeit Cadbury's. If I sell a hat with "Winter is coming" on it, but no knights in armour and women with their tits out **, then it's absurd to suggest I'm passing it off as an HBO hat.
* I suppose it's too much to hope that the registration actually uses the phrase "similar tat".
** I'm afraid my knowledge of Game of Thrones is entirely second-hand.
"HBO's trademark covers clothing, mugs, drinking glasses, hats, bags, mouse pads and similar tat."
That actually sees to be the sticking point in this particular instance though, because, as the article also states in the very next sentence "Redbubble is an online community of artists and a bazaar of t-shirts and bags printed on demand from artwork submitted by its users."
The question is, did HBO manage to successfully trademark the phrase for those uses in Australia where the website is based?
This has nothing to do with DMCA, it is plain old good trademark law and the idiotic "use it or lose" clause in it. That clause is long overdue for clarification and relaxation
Only somebody who's never discovered the joys of safe harbour in the DMCA would say something so silly.
Actually take away the safe harbour stuff and the DMCA would be a reasonably functional piece of copyright legislation. It'd still excessively favour copyright holders but at the same time at least people could make it work.
Making bullshit copyright claims should implicitly be viewed by the legal system as perjury and result in people being disbarred when they do it and then they might actually look at the shit they're sending out. Yes I am suggesting lawyers should lose their livelihoods for a first offence, then maybe it'd restore faith in the system and practitioners.
"This has nothing to do with DMCA, it is plain old good trademark law and the idiotic "use it or lose" clause in it. "
May have nothing to do with the DMCA, but everything to do with shitty behaviour being allowed because it's digital.
Imagine the outcry if schools were harassed by companies with removal notices over the students paintings merely 'cause one had a title they thought they owned....
I'm going to start handing out punishment exercises now. Everyone here talking about copyright write out;
A trademark is not a copyright, they are two entirely different things.
100 times and return it me Monday morning.
If you don't know why they are entirely different things, then you do not understand trademarks or copyrights. Stop commenting on them until you do.
Actually ... there is a really strong legal precedent against trademarking "Winter is Coming." There was a Linux company named "Lindows" at one point, and Microsoft challenged the company, saying the name was too close to "Windows." Lindows argued that you can't trademark a common name like "Windows." Microsoft finally settled with them out of court, and gave them something like $100 million to change their name to "Linspire."
So that painting may be worth $100 million. It's very nice!
"So that painting may be worth $100 million. It's very nice!"
@elfaegis and all
Printing a few copies now to pin round College next week, and it will be featured on all my whiteboard screens. Small donation being made to Asperger's charity.
Sort of reverse Streisand effect anyone?
PS: trips round the circle (of fifths) are common in Music; Bach Well tempered clavier, Schubert Winterreise. Perhaps an Enso practice might be of interest to the youngster involved?
"the idiotic "use it or lose" clause in it. "
That requirement is in virtually every country's trademark laws. The idea being that you can't submarine in a trademark claim after something becomes popular.
I've seen cases where the company and lawyers who were involved were actually apologetic, but explained that if they don't enforce in every case, it has the potential to remove protection for the ones they are enforcing - and with HBO asserting trademark in all the paraphenalia associated with a show that pretty much means anything and everything.
But yes, they're tossers. They could have sent a much nicer letter in the first instance.
@Alan Brown
In this case there is no product, no commercialisation at all. There is no need or right to protect any ‘mark’. In this case there is no right to protect.
In fact the dumb shit lawyers have hurt the mark. You can now safely use it as satire on this case.
Ie. “Just look at this case what a clear sign winter is coming”.
I would love to get Ariel Winter involved with this. “Are you trademarking my sexual escapades?”
I recall vaguely there were penalties promised for abuse of the DMCA - how about enforcing that harshly? As far as I know "Winter is coming" has prior use probably as long as we've been naming the seasons. For a start. there will be a godawful amount of peasants to sue who must have interrupted their relentless ploughing of the muddy earth by looking up at the sky and utter that very phrase.
(which somehow reminds me of the "bring out yer dead" scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail :) ).
This deserves very harsh and exceptionally costly consequences. And I'm going to keep a record of the name of the legal idiot who saw fit to undersign this lunacy.
F*ckwits.
"Start by overhauling DMCA" - not necessary for this case at all. This website
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13f9814f-b56e-4314-8e1b-95215ce60a6d
explains why HBO would be in legal trouble if they tried to use the US DMCA to stop a trademark infringement. Because DMCA is for _copyright infringement_ only. (Headline: Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability).
Don't blame the DMCA for idiots trying to use it without understanding it. Similar to Lexmark which tried to stop competitors creating ink cartridges using the DMCA who were told that the better read the and understand bloody thing before they try to use it to sue someone.
This website
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13f9814f-b56e-4314-8e1b-95215ce60a6d
explains why HBO would be in legal trouble if they tried to use the US DMCA to stop a trademark infringement. Because DMCA is for _copyright infringement_ only. (Headline: Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability).
Well fine, but they did anyway and were successful. This is the problem with the DMCA and far too complex legal crud: it's enough to scare people, which is all they need. A legal system which can be abused by those with the largest wallets without any noticeable consequences does not provide justice, and that's exactly what is happening.
"Well fine, but they did anyway and were successful. "
For a DMCA takedown notice, you must state _under penalty of perjury_ that you are the copyright holder, or an agent of the copyright holder. The trademark owner is not the copyright holder. They just need to run into _one_ person with a lawyer friend who has a bit of spare time on their hands.
HBO meeting...
"Some girl has uploaded a picture with Winter is Coming written on it..."
"Well, we could threaten to sue her, demand the site takes down the picture... crush the girl and show the world we are serious about protecting out trademarks...
OR
We could offer to buy her picture, set up an online gallery using her picture as a centrepiece... encourage other people to come up with their own Winter is Coming artwork. Think of the positive publicity! Think of the goodwill! Imagine the love we'd get from the fans of the most popular TV show out there!
And it would cost us next to nothing!"
Apparently HBO travelled back to 1925 and asked Mary Alice Jones to grant them the exclusive rights to the title "Winter is Coming".
Although I think they may need to go back and ask Mary to do a bit of time travelling herself, so she can go back to 1862, and ask Richard Coe for the rights in the first place.
"IP" is a farce.
Winter is coming.
Winter is coming.
Winter is coming.
Winter is coming.
Winter is coming.
Winter is coming.
A lovely piece of art from a young girl who has enough challengs in her life without arseholes like HBO adding to them.
Even worse if they are doing it to everyone who uses the phrase, boycott them and fuck them off out of it!
The boy in the film clip sounded horribly like a young Billy Hague.
And in our next segment:
Channel 4 is to take action against HBO for attempting to trademark the phrase "You know nothing Jon Snow" from it's well-known GRR Martin adaptation. A Channel 4 spokesperson said that, "they are insulting our lead news anchor by implying that Mr Snow is intellectually bereft".
I've got to say before anything else, what an excellent picture it is.
So if there is any association with that show then it can only be good.
What will do "irreparable harm to the brand" is throwing their lawyer weight around and generally being a fucking arsehole about stuff.
Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming
wouldnt it be great to get that pic to "go viral" or "trend" , or memed , complete with defiant message to HBO to go fuck themselves.
This could be the most worthwhile thing 4chan ever did.
could also be best use of a botnet
Hmmm....Thinking.... thinking... How to protest? Ah, yes, Femen!
Generously-bosomed young ladies modelling T-shirts
Winter is coming
Come and take this off, HBO!
That means they are already infringing on the TnA in GoT, so clear need for a takedownoff. Need to find the dragon angle somehow.
p.s. I don't know about HBO as a whole, but the lawyers who made this stupid call really, really, need to find themselves a purpose in life other than stereotyping the joke about 5000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea.
"Winter is coming.
Come and get me you twats."
You do realize that its not just uttering the phrase that gets you in trouble.
Its using that phrase "Winter is Coming" as a title to the artwork that got her picture taken down.
So go outside (especially if you live in the Mid West of the US) and snap a photo and title it "Winter is coming" and then post it online. Then see what happens.
"I'm Spartacus! (providing Roman slave rebellions aren't effing copyrighted now)."
How on earth can common expressions be "owned" by a company.
Winter is coming - its a standard expression used across the world and has been for a very long time. Perhaps I should get a film made where I use the word "Hello" a lot, then go and screw the world for trying to be make contact with other individuals.
So, lets try something :
Winter is coming
Christmas is coming
The new year is coming
Brexit is coming
See, all common expressions, none can be protected if we have freedom of speech.
Time for a reboot on the DMCA. What a bunch of complete idiots.
This post has been deleted by its author
I would add to your post.. what the fuckity-fuck are they thinking and what the fuckity-fuck was the Trademark Office thinking when they approved this? Prior art? There is if everyday conversation is considered. What's next..."this is the winter of our discontent".??????
I'm reliably informed that in an earlier work of dramatic historical dynastic fiction there was the line.
''The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers,''
Which for the sake of HBO legal dept (twinned with Sirius Cybernetic Corp marketng dept) comes from Henry VI, Part II,
Trademark. Not copyright. Nike is the name of an ancient Greek goddess, but try marketing some kind of sports equipment named after her and see how far you get.
Trademarks are limited in scope - that is, they only cover the situation when the phrase is used to market or sell certain things (and those "things" have to be explicitly listed, by category, in the trademark application or notification). So you might get away with marketing avocados, or ball bearings, using 'Nike'. But not shoes or bags.
In this case, it looks like the publishers have dibs on clothing bearing the phrase, and the website allows you to print it on T-shirts. Hence, infringement.
Not mentioned in the story is whether the website would, in fact, allow you to print this image on a T-shirt. If it would, then much as I hate to admit it, the sharks were right. If not, then I'd say the family should have a good case.
veti No. It's a statement of fact. Winter is coming. And If she or you or I or anyone wants to wear that on a shirt, so be it. It's a common expression - well used ever since humankind was first able to follow the seasons. If she ( or anyone) were to use the typeface, image or characters from the poxy series, that's fair game and they can expect to be approached by lawyers. But the saying/writing/printing of "Winter is coming" belongs to all of us.
There are dozens of poems titled "Winter is coming" and the phrase has been used in many novels, tv series and movies, all created many many years before Game of thrones was shat out, and all of which make money.
HBO can fuck right off. Any court challenge where the judge hasn't been bought off would kick HBO in the balls.
"In this case, it looks like the publishers have dibs on clothing bearing the phrase, and the website allows you to print it on T-shirts. Hence, infringement."
Perhaps the girl should use Google Translate to create a non-English version of the text and upload that instead. I hear that translating random phrases into Arabic is a popular meme right now.
Surely not Ser George R. R. Martin as well?
Still, I see your point. We are mostly a sad lot of angry assholes who fucked themselves and can't figure out how to do otherwise.
In the grand scheme of things, HBO and those two dufuses who claim responsibility for the atrocity that is the GoT TV show are indeed ignorant assholes who should be burnt at the stake. The books are a kagillion times more entertaining than any of the TV series. AFAIC the HBO show can fuck off to north of the wall. The books are not impressed by the TV show. Not at all. Even with Leslie Rose. Holy crap, she's nice. Everything else must GO!
"The books are not impressed by the TV show" --- AC
That's ridiculous, Ser. The books are wonderful, but this has got to be almost the best adaptation that was actually feasible. Each TV season is about 1000 pages of text boiled down to less than 10 hours of screen time. Given the circumstances it's about as faithful as it could possibly be.
Each TV season is about 1000 pages of text boiled down to less than 10 hours of screen time. Given the circumstances it's about as faithful as it could possibly be.
That was actually the biggest problem I had with the TV show. I loved the books, but watching the first few episodes I was constantly thinking either "I remember what happens next" or "Oh, they left out xxx". I gave up after episode 2, despite the excellent Peter Dinklage.
Returning to topic, I can see snow on the mountains. Looks like Winter is coming, HBO.
The TV adaption was well done (stayed mostly faithful to the books, good casting, wardrobe, locations not all CG), but they can't beat the books.
Odd really, all my life I've been waiting for a good adaption of fantasy books, when a few come along I'm no longer that excited after a bit, because I realise you can't beat the the novel format after all.
I think the two Dune takes did it. David Lynchs film version was kind of good (the fan version fixed a lot of issues) and the Sci Fi channel version had it's good points (except characterisations for some, turning Paul into a whinger at the start, and totally lobotomising Gurney Halleck).
"I realise you can't beat the the novel format after all."
I think the real truth is that you can't beat the *original* format. Each format has strengths and weaknesses and a competent author will play to the former, making it very hard to produce an equally good "translation" into a different format.
As a result, producers who buy the rights to a book might be better advised to buy the rights to the characters (or universe) depicted therein and then commission someone to write a different story. (This needn't be the original author and unless that author has some experience in the other medium perhaps it shouldn't be.)
I think I read somewhere that JKR made a lot of friends when she first met the producers of the first film and suggested that quite a few things would have to change to make the books filmable. Cue huge sighs of relief from the screenwriting team.
I thought existing phrases and words could not be copyrighted or trademarked. Hence the advertising industry's penchant for homonym spellings like "beanz".
Garry Kasparov published a book last year with the title "Winter is Coming"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Winter-Coming-Vladimir-Enemies-Stopped/dp/1782397868
Church of Void had a song released in 2012
https://churchofvoid.bandcamp.com/album/winter-is-coming
It reminds me of the take-downs of internet domains containing "Java". Leading to the situation of the lawyers demanding compliance by "the country formerly known as Java".
Wouldn't 'homophone spellings be a better usage here? 'Homophones' - apart from gay chat lines, obviously - are words with the same sound (homo = same, phonos = sound) but different spellings. For example 'moat' and 'mote'; or indeed 'beanz' and 'beans'.
Homonyms are words with the same spelling but different meanings, such as the Poles who are from Poland and the poles that hold up phone wires.
I'm aware that there's a certain overlap between the two words, that's why my suggestion is 'better usage' rather than 'correct usage'.
that's why my suggestion is 'better usage' rather than 'correct usage'.
If you are saying what I think you are, then I disagree strongly. See George Orwell's essay 'Politics and the English Language', if you want some ideas on the dangers of watering down language for the whims of the few.
Changing the meaning of words to suit the idea you are trying to get across, rather than using the right word in the first place, is what politicians and advertisers have been doing for decades. And how much credence can you put on anything either of those two groups use?
mstreet, chances are that GP used that sentence in order to avoid having the correction cause offense. I often find myself being similarly conciliatory by throwing in "chances are" (like above), "my guess is," "I could be wrong" and similar phrases.
Anyway, it seems to me that most of the damage to our language is now caused by adults not having studied grammar beyond a glance in school as kids, not reading remotely enough to integrate/reinforce the lessons, and the dulling effect of modern everyday life producing an attitude of “if they can figure out generally what I meant, that's good enough.” (In other words, roughly the scenario Orwell outlined in 1984.)
I was woken up at 3am by a call that turned out to be an American lawyer who was concerned that I had used one of their product names in the name of a tool I had written for their product (it made sense at the time). It had not actually occurred to them that I might not live in the US (despite ringing an international dialling code), nor that they could have simply asked instead of going in with full legal threats. It's the latter that brings a chill to the feelings towards heavy handed companies.. almost like winter is coming.
> my speedo pair
Aaahh, when read your first para, I thought "speedo pair" was a euphemism along the lines of "the dog's proverbials", and then I read the last four words, and cognitive dissonance + extreme sympathy resulted!
For readers unfamiliar with rhyming slang, Tea Leaf === Thief
Honestly, this has become so ridiculous. The phrase, "winter is coming," has been around since the concepts of both "winter" and time were formed. And the USPTO allows it to be trademarked.
Yeah, we need reform, but it isn't going to happen any time soon.
Ohhh. Then there was the time Hilton Hotels sent out legal emails to website owners "using their brand in domains to link to other websites without permission". No one had visited the Hilton IT department first to learn about wildcard DNS.
So they were schooled, with examples such as http://hilton.sucks.compared.to.sleepinn.com
No reply was ever received. Not even an apology.
"Sumer Is Icumen In"
Now that phrase is most useful.... you can sing it while burning to death the idiot lawyers who came up with the trademark thing in the US plus the scumbag no brain lawyers who send take downs to 13 yr olds
Oh and add to the pyre the utter &%&^$&%$^%£"%$"(* ^&&*^(*()&**%& *&%&^$&*^(&(ers who remade one of my favourite films too
Flames..... they dont just look pretty ..
I followed the advice at the end of the article, put a nice warm coat and scarf on before heading off to the train station, and I nearly died of heat stroke.
As I live in the Southern Hemisphere winter is not coming.
Thanks The so called Register.
Angry of Auckland.
> The phrase "HBO ARE CUNTS" is trademarked and a DMCA notice of removal has been issued, and El Reg have removed it from the forum.
You've got it the wrong way around! The phrase that you need to trademark is "HBO are lovely people" as then no one, not even HBO can ever use the phrase again, without your permission.
Another good choice would be "HBO are not criminals" - you can then prevent HBO from defending themselves publicly should, heaven forbid, they ever be accused of a crime.
This is hilarious. The term Winter is Coming is used in literally thousands of pages of books. For example in the book "Keeping Bees & Making Honey" the term "Winter is Coming" is on Page 10. Would HBO now demand that this book be banned?
Several apparel manufacturers use the term "Winter is Coming" in their advertisements. They have been doing it for years. Should they take it down?
Which clown gave HBO the right to claim commonly used phrases as their's?
Just had a quick grep and there's enough authors who used the phrase to get a class action together, just with what I have kicking about locally:
Andre Norton - Dark Piper
2918 dont want to be, Vere. Not if Kynvet is like Feeholme. Winter is coming; we must get home
Andre Norton - Dark Companion
4179 "Winter is coming; we must get home before the passes close," I continued as if I did not hear her, for I
Ann Maxwell - The Jaws of Menx
3399 speak no more of serat things, Shiya whispered. Im alone and winter is coming.
Anne McCaffrey - Ship 3 - The Ship Who Searched
6434 handle? Winter is coming on, and I can't predict what the native animals are
Anne McCaffrey - Twins of Petaybee 01 - Changelings
5624 "Besides," Da said, "there's no hurry. Winter is coming and Ke-ola's folk don't care for the
Avram Davidson - The Woman who Thought she Could Read
115 My father said, "You mean you can tell a bad winter is coming from the beans?"
Barbara Hambly - James Asher 2 - Traveling With the Dead
7016 ache. Winter is coming on. This city will be under snow. A master fighting for
Bernard Cornwell - Warlord 1 - Winter King
13074 are thick with berries, both signs that a harsh winter is coming. Sagramor once told me there were places
Bernard Cornwell - Warlord 2 - Enemy of God
752 one remaining hand. And tonight is Samain Eve and tomorrow is a new year. The winter is coming. The
Brian W. Aldiss - Helliconia Winter
2650 "The winter is coming," was all he said. His face was drawn into bitter lines.
C. J. Cherryh - Fortress 2 - Fortress of Eagles
7556 Winter is coming, snow, and ice. So they tell me. Take care, take
C. S. Friedman - In Conquest Born
12590 We lost five more today, bringing the total to half our number. The winter is coming quickly now and we
Carol Emshwiller - The General
278 Winter is coming. The weather will worsen. We've postponed our search, perhaps until spring, perhaps forever.
Catherine Asaro - The Phoenix Code
486 "Winter is coming and they have a long way to go." He sounded more relaxed now. "So
Dan Parkinson - Dragonlance Heroes 2 - The Gates of Thorbardin
5352 "Do you suppose winter is coming early this year "
Dan Chernenko - Scepter of Mercy 01 - The_Bastard King
7817 winter is coming on. Nothing much will happen out in the provinces till spring at the
Dave Duncan - A Man Of His Word 1 - Magic Casement
2074 for a reply. Winter is coming. You will love the sea voyage in summer, my dear,
David Drake - General 03 - The Anvil
7214 cloth and fuel. Winter is coming, and it's hard enough for us in
David Drake - General 04 - The Steel
4517 the general position, now that winter is coming to an end."
David Drake - General 05 - Conqueror
7666 Poor men have no savings, no warehouses of food and cloth and fuel. Winter is coming, and it's hard
15947 general position, now that winter is coming to an end."
David G. Hartwell - Year's Best SF 5
9378 She sniffed. “Dear Night-Dawn. Always dreaming. But first we must eat, for winter is coming.â€
David Gemmell - Drenai Tales 09 - Hero In The Shadows
2976 'Perhaps,' said Kysumu. 'But when I see birds flying south I know winter is coming. They do not need to be large
David Zindell - Ea Cycle 03 - Black Jade
398 when winter is coming?'
Deborah Chester - The Sword, The Ring, & The Chalice 3 - The Chalice
3183 “Good. I could hunt the eld-folk on my own, but winter is coming soon, and I must find what I seek
Elizabeth Willey - A Sorcerer And A Gentleman
713 "Exactly. Winter is coming."
Eric Flint - Grantville Gazette - Vol 2
1353 "Winter is coming," said Donovan, halting his friend's rant cold.
1817 we need to leave as soon as possible. Winter is coming, as you constantly remind me. How many men
2294 "Winter is coming."
Harry Harrison - Eden 02 - Winter in Eden
10827 "Winter is coming, Eistaa, winter without end. Each winter the snow is lower on the mountain. One day
J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
7702 winter is coming on fast. Before long you will be having snow and what not,
Jane Lindskold - Firekeeper Saga 2 - Wolf's Head, Wolf's Heart
5782 to your queen's benefit. Indeed, why go so far as Dragon's Breath? Winter is coming and the Sword of
Jane Lindskold - Firekeeper Saga 3 - The Dragon of Despair
14131 the count. You reason like a late-autumn pup." That was one born when the winter is coming, and so
Janny Wurts - Light & Shadows 2 - The Ships of Merior
9418 'Winter is coming everywhere else,' Dakar prodded. 'The Scimlade
Jean M. Auel - 2 - The Valley of Horses
3446 and winter is coming."
Jennifer Roberson - CotC 1 - Shape-Changers
7053 Winter is coming. Your coal must be thick and warm. A heavy
John Crowley - Engine Summer
1457 hot again, and summer returns for a time. Winter is coming; you know that from
4260 winter is coming."
John Dalmas - Farside 3 - The Lion Returns
6299 have wooded areas. And winter is coming, with its long nights. Armies travel mostly on roads. Their
John Marco - Tyrants and Kings 1 - The Jackal of Nar
5678 The castle never seemed so large before, and winter is coming. We will
5721 remembered. Outside the world has turned a watery gray. Winter is coming
John Morressy - The Juggler
1771 peace," said Sir Hubert, crossing himself. "My daugh-ter is leaving me now, and the winter is coming. This
John Norman - Gor 18 - Blood Brothers of Gor
14988 "The Kaiila have little meat," I said. "Winter is coming."
John Varley - Blue Champagne
8981 excuse not to write... and the Mac made it even easier! Now winter is coming on, I've missed a
Kate Elliott - Crown of Stars 4 - Child Of Flame
28057 shudder. Winter is coming, and they will all struggle to survive among the ruins.
Kate Elliott - Crown of Stars 3 - The Burning Stone
12809 We must learn more of this 'Nokvi' before we fight him. Winter is coming on, and
Kate Forsyth - Eileanan 02 - Pool Of Two Moons
9627 "Winter is coming, we shall have to see what we can do for ye," Iseult said, leading the way through the
Kate Forsyth - Eileanan 03 - The Cursed Towers
13464 will both die in the snows. Winter is coming and ye do no' ken the ways o' the mountains or where the
Kate Elliott - Jaran 4 - The Law of Becoming
20560 "Good wool cloth," said Jaelle instantly. "Winter is coming on."
Kathleen O' Neal & Michael W. Gear - People 6 - People of the Lakes
21292 warning the world that winter is coming."
Kim Wilkins - Giants of the Frost
13802 climb high up in a tree because winter is coming and the sky is grey; snow pitches down and ice hangs on
Kim Wilkins - The Autumn Castle
12213 "What you're doing is upsetting the balance of the seasons. Winter is coming early."
13852 disappeared with the royal magic, six faeries have been murdered, winter is coming, and their queen is
L. E. Modesitt - Recluce 02 - Scion of Scyador
5836 Winter is coming, with the cold rains, and chill winds, and with it, I would hope, fewer
L. J. Smith - Vampire Diaries 01 - The Awakening
5722 "Winter is coming, Elena," he said, and his voice was clear and chilling even over the howl of the wind.
L. J. Smith - Vampire Diaries 02 - The Struggle
205 "Winter is coming, Elena," he said, and his voice was clear and chilling even over
Leo Frankowski - Stargard 1 - Crosstime Engineer
2068 "But how is that going to keep you alive? Winter is coming on."
Leo Frankowski - Tank 3 - Kren of the Mitchegai
12873 won't be a problem at first, because winter is coming on, and they will
Mercedes Lackey - In Celebration of Lammas Night
2283 you like to have someone to warm you? Winter is coming. You could have a babe
Michael Chabon - McSweeney's Mammoth Treasury
3024 Winter is coming. The weather will worsen. We've postponed our search, perhaps until spring, perhaps forever.
Nebula Awards 2002 - The Nominated Stories
11106 creeping into me. "Winter is coming," I said in a puff of steam and had one fleeting vision of Cavanaugh, his leaves
P. N. Elrod - Vampire Files 01 - Bloodlist
1462 "I think winter is coming," he said, and winked at me. It was only
Parke Godwin - Firelord
1945 forgetful, but winter is coming. Prince Peredur, when you have quite heard
Patricia White - A Wizard Scorned
4954 "We must go whether I'm strong enough or not," he said slowly. "Winter is coming all too soon, it must
Paul Kearney - Monarchies of God 1 - Hawkwoods Voyage
11620 sources report that it is somewhat demoralized. Winter is coming on, the Thurian passes are closed and
Robin Hobb - Soldier Son 03 - Renegade's Magic
1736 will be months before they undo my destruction. Winter is coming
7060 'Winter is coming. It's right to be cold in winter. The wind will
Roger Taylor - Nightfall 1 - Farnor
2409 feel when a thunderstorm is about to break, or that quality in the air that tells us winter is coming . . . who
Sarah Ash - The Tears of Artamon 1 - Lord of Snow and Shadows
5553 "A harsh winter is coming . . ." The voice that
Scott Westerfeld - Succession 1 - The Risen Empire
8127 Legis population is all in the northern hemisphere, where winter is coming."
Spider Robinson - The Mind 2 - Time Pressure
4035 when Winter is coming on fast and you still don't have your firewood cut or your house
STAR TREK - SNW - 008 - Book VIII
224 sheepish grin. "I have to warn you. Winter is coming up here." He passed each of the four
Star Wars - [Jedi Apprentice 06] - The Uncertain Path (by Jude Watson)
1377 the city. The people are already unhappy with us. They're cold, and winter is coming. They need to see
Stephen Baxter - Huddle
1129 winter is coming."
Stephen King - The Stand
12236 winter is coming), they're eating out of cans, they're miserable. A strongman
Tanith Lee - Delerium' Mistress
9114 "Winter is coming," said the prince's daughter. "The leaves will blacken and the fruit become
The talk of notices and counter-notices does sound like the DMCA is being used but this is claimed to be a trademark issue. My understanding is that the DMCA is for copyright only and not for other forms of intellectual property. As noted "Winter is Coming" is way too short to qualify for copyright protection.
Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming.
What you going to do about that c*nts?
..is ultimately make companies like HBO look like assholes and harm them. How do they never learn? How can their collection of pointless savant lawyers and marketing folks not understand that this behavior will bite them in their smarmy asses when the (totally 100% predictable) backlash occurs? Doesn't anyone actually vet these requests before they go out, or is there just some spambot used for takedown notices?
Hmmm, for "art/entertainment/poetry/story" purposes, I interpret the phrase "Winter is coming" as referencing the "end of the world/Ragnarök" Fimbulwinter from Norse mythology. There is a REASON its a common phrase for literature/arts and such, even if the majority of the population doesn't understand the significance. Not sure how HBO can issue a takedown on that with a straight face, but I assume their lawyers aren't well versed outside of law classes?
The story by Spider Robinson
http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html
is more relevant than ever.
How many three-word phrases that make some kind of sense are there in the English language? (eg. excluding things like "blue weep coffee", but allowing "cake has measles"). Seems like a problem similar to the one discussed in the short story.
Replace Ned Stark with Yoda, and use the phrase "Coming, Winter is."
Or a pic of a buxom Ariel diddling herself, eyes glazed and panting, with the phrase "Winter is cumming"
Or a pic of some jihadis, bundled up in cold weather gear, charging at the viewer, and the caption "Winter. IS coming."
The English language is sufficiently broad enough for us to be able to fuck with their precious trademark/copyright, and they won't be able to do a fucking thing about it.
This is proof of prior art of my trademark phrase for a drama set on a world a bit like our own, but most everybody's gone PTSD or Psychopathic because it really is boring to be stuck in the Iron Age for thousands of years.
The small company which produced my first computer trademarked the phrase "user-friendly" circa 1979, but I guess it didn't stick.
Of Our Discontent.
a lawyers best activity is?, How to prevent people from excising their most valuable rights!
a class action lawsuit against HBO and any other slimy group of trademark holders would suit me just fine.
this is what happens when lawyers/barristers have nothing really important (make money) to do, they sit around, figuring out ways to intimidate the public, squeeze money out of 'the little folks', smoke their fat imported cigars and then give everyone the finger.
give HBO the "cold shoulder" they deserve. little girls lives matter MORE!
... for some enterprising business. Your first product could be seasonal tee-shirts, each bearing an original and appropriate landscape photo to go with simple phrases like -
"It's April: summer is coming"
and
"November now: winter is coming"
and perhaps also a line showing common orifices in buildings, called "Doors" and "Windows".
Stupid laws bring the law itself into disrepute.
to sue every* sodding met office in the world too, as well as amateur meteorologists and almanac publishers and writers?
* not applicable to those in the tropics, and the lower latitudes of the subtropics. Void where prohibited. May contain allergenes. Certainly contains nuts.
OOohh, that would have provided me with months of entertainment at no cost if they'd done that to my daughter.
The "counter-notice" stuff sounds all scary and whatever, but I'd assert a good faith belief that they were talking b*****ks in a heartbeat and make it as expensive for them as I possibly could.
That's the kind of weekend project I like, along with correcting the junk mail that comes through my door, reporting "faith healers" to the advertising authorities when they claim to be able to cure stuff, and taking the smallest of personal complaints to the extreme when companies pull unnecessary junk like "Sorry, can't do that, data protection" when it's not actually anything to do with that.
A lot of companies have learned the hard way that a guy bored on the weekend, with a modicum of legal knowledge, and a desire to REALLY purge the world of this kind of piss-take can cost them more than their notice could ever have provided them. Especially when I add my costs to a running total stated in every letter after a certain point (i.e. we've established my complaint, you've asserted I'm wrong, it's gone back and forth, so from that point on I add on the price of every stamp, envelope and my time to every letter from that points onwards and demand you not only solve my [reasonable or I wouldn't even bother to get this far] complaint but those costs too now that it's gotten silly).
Hell, I just hope they would actually bite and fight to assert their claim, because I hate when companies do what they should on reception of a complaint, it takes all the fun out of it (my father-in-law does the same but he's refused to do it with certain companies because they do just refund/compensate you immediately without question, and it takes all the fun out of it, and then why punish the good guys?).
Hey, HBO. Winter is coming. That's a statement of fact, written in books long before you even existed. You don't own it, even if you have a trademark on it. That trademark is to stop COMPETITORS passing off as you, not to censor little girl's unrelated artwork. Your due diligence in asserting such claims just f***ed up royally, and I'd take you up on every offer of counter-filing, lawsuit, etc. just out of principle.
Here's hoping they are too stupid to spot the bad press and back down from such future endeavours. Where's the fun in that, when they are utterly in the wrong?
Hey, HBO, why don't you pick on Garry Kasparov:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Winter-Coming-Vladimir-Enemies-Stopped/dp/1782397868
Or the Cambridge University Alumni store? Or any of the 13m hits I get for the phrase that have nothing to do with HBO or their TV series at all?
I know the answer. Because they would write back and tell you to f*** off at great expense to yourself, whereas a girl and her father won't.
Winter is coming, people...
"That trademark is to stop COMPETITORS passing off as you, not to censor little girl's unrelated artwork."
Quite.
The site in question can print T-shirts from submitted artwork, and that's covered by the trademark - but while the image bears the phrase, the artwork is nothing whatsoever to do with Game of Thrones, it's a completely independent work, with the phrase added as a title afterwards. The girl is not a competitor, and is not passing off her work as relating to Game of Thrones.
Given other uses of the phrase, what's needed is for someone who has in the past used it in a commercial context - preferably predating the trademark, and where the phrase is used in a significant way and is recognisable from that use (which rules out simply being used in a line in a book or whatever) - to produce T-shirts with it in the context of their work.
Then we could all invest heavily in popcorn companies (or just buy lots of popcorn) and see what happens.
HBO have gone to a lot of time and expense to trademark their highly inventive "Winter is coming" phrase, a phrase which was unknown to the English speaking world before they released their recent historical documentary featuring said phrase.
How people can defend this little girl (who can reasonably be compared to Hitler) is beyond me...
Are they going to do a take-down for the news reader with the name "Jon Snow"? Like the lawyers tried to do with the country formerly known as Java.
Maybe the news reader could issue a defamation claim against HBO - for using the name as absolutely defining someone as a legal bastard.***
*** I've read the first book at the insistence of a young friend. I stalled at page 600 - even before realising the imminent end was merely a pause in a large series of books.
The girl is autistic. Gifted and handicapped in the same package. (Lots of sympathy. Most of us programmers share the same traits in a more diluted form).
Can't HBO be attacked under some sort of disability discrimination law for throwing a clear abuse of the DMCA at a disabled minor? In fact I suspect that might be possible even without any input from this young artist.
There are only 10 episodes each season and so many deaths, penises and boobs I can't even get my head around who is supposed to be in the next one.... seems like winter has been coming for a long time (yes, you can read that as a double entendre because most of the characters seem to come way quicker than winter - 7 seasons, no winter yet... anyone want to buy this summer wear?).
HBO ought to adapt Simon Raven's series of novels "Alms for Oblivion" and "First Born of Egypt" - a similar mix of politics, sex, and the supernatural in the 20th century.
It was said that his friends were wary of any admitted peccadillo appearing in his next novel. His autobiography "Shadows on the Grass" was called by one critic "the filthiest cricket book ever written". The author responded by asking if he could include the quote on the book's cover.
and IIRC you are allowed to quote short passages for review purposes, then perhaps someone on her behalf could counter-sue HBO for suppression of free speech?
*And I am sure there would be a legion of people prepared to affirm that they think this is a helpful review, ahem
It should be noted that the "Use it or lose it" page linked at the bottom of the article is hosted by a firm of IP lawyers, who might well have a rather biased viewpoint given that cases like this are their bread and butter... The EFF has a very different opinion on the issue:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet
At one time I used to do trademark registration. I had one marketing guy who wanted to trademark a phrase consisting of words in common use in the UK, I argued he couldn't, so eventually I just slapped it in and put the rejection notice on his desk.
I now realise I should have trademarked it in the US, where it would obviously have gone through. Words simply fail me on this, I simply cannot find adequate ones to describe the incompetence (or venality, your choice) of the USPTO.
How can they trademark the phrase when there are so many examples of prior art in the public domain of the use of this phrase going back long long before HBO's show. Do a google image search for the phrase and you will see its used in lots of memes and similar images to the one produced by this poor child.... I dont understand who's arse got bend out of shape by the picture for this to even ever happen.... Oh wait....
Could this be a publicity stunt to keep the stupid show in peoples mind and in a few days/weeks they will issue a public apology and invite the kid onset for a photo opportunity and to make amends..... watch this space.
Hahahahaha! Brilliant.
Here's a clickable link of it so people don't have to copy/paste:
Set up a fighting fund for countering idiotic trsademark protection? Just do it
Ask for donations, however small. Every little helps
This is only a suggestion, feel free to Nave it your way
Thanks to the Register this comment is connecting people, because you're worth it,
As for me, trademarking? I'm lovin' it - making America great again
Using that phrase within the artwork might be protected by the 'fair use' doctrine. It's possible that HBO objected to the use of that phrase as the file name when it was uploaded. It would then appear in a search along with their branded merchandise. So, change the name and put it back up.
" It's possible that HBO objected to the use of that phrase as the file name when it was uploaded. It would then appear in a search along with their branded merchandise. "
Did you actually try putting that into Google before coming out with that attempt at pro-HBO PR?
They are totally Streisanded at the moment, the front page is full of this story whereas if they had done the obvious thing - i.e. nothing whatsoever - an obscure file wouldn't make it onto any search page anyone is likely to look at. Because Google has clever algorithms called "Page Rank" to ensure that's exactly what happens. If I put a file called Winter is Coming and a picture of the various tits on my bird table (as distinct from the various tits that work for HBO IP department) it won't make it onto page 300, let alone the first page.
As it is, Kasparov's book of the same name is on about page 2. I await with interest what HBO does about that.
I think that PAUL CLAYTON, LARRY EHRLICH, DAVID LAZAR, TOM SIX
should sue HBO and GRRM for stealing ther phrase:
Done laid around, done stayed around this old town too long
Summer's almost gone, winter's coming on
Done laid around, done stayed around this old town too long
And it seems like I've got to travel on
And it seems like I've got to travel on
Gotta Travel On
Performed by lots of people including Bob :Dylan, Neil Young, Billy Grammar and a host of others
Ezra Pound (Lustra, 1916):
Winter is icumen in,
Lhude sing Goddamm,
Raineth drop and staineth slop,
And how the wind doth ramm!
Sing: Goddamm.
Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us,
An ague hath my ham.
Freezeth river, turneth liver,
Damm you; Sing: Goddamm.
Goddamm, Goddamm, 'tis why I am, Goddamm,
So 'gainst the winter's balm.
Sing goddamm, damm, sing goddamm,
Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.
(a parody of the the 13th century song "Sumer Is Icumen In").
And all sing "Goddamm, DAMM the fartwits at HBO".
Ezra Pound wrote an immensely long poem attacking capitalism and arguing that culture was universal and couldn't be appropriated by commercial interests.
"with usura [i.e. rent seeking, which is basically what HBO is doing]
...
no picture is made to endure nor to live with
but it is made to sell and sell quickly"
He may have been a nutcase of paranoid tendencies who thought Mussolini was a great thinker, but he had a point.
The idiocy of allowing the trademarking of common, widely used phrases was mapped out and lampooned in my 1995 column "Registered Peopleware," reprinted in _The Peopleware Papers_ (Prentice Hall, 2001). The bulk of the story is constructed almost entirely from trademarked words and phrases, such as "We've thought of everything", "The Best Solution", and "Bad Idea." Pity the poor meteorologist or climate scientist who now can no longer say "winter is coming." [Disclaimer: All trademarks and service marks are the property of their respective owners.]
Whenever I see the abuse of trademarks in this way, I cringe having had to fight similar suits and threats over the years. Beat microsoft years ago, and now am fighting dish as they claim they own trademark dish, when in fact, they don't, the registered dish network. This has gone on for over a year where I keep getting threatened and bullied by dish network. I offered to sell them my url, even lease it to them if they are so concerned. After all, it will cost them more to sue than what I am asking, a measly $5K, so makes you wonder what motivates companies like HBO in this case whereby an innocent autistic childs art work would be attacked over such a generic phrase that probably no one even knew about until now.
Protest with your pocketbooks and wallets, drop HBO from your TV cable or dish subscription, in fact, a move to put these monopolies out of business is well under way with new media centers, or as we use to call them, the black box which allows you to watch what you want when you want, no more rip off costs for PPV rentals, so I hit them in their bottom line and no longer pay subscription fees saving thousands to date. Nothing better than FREE-PPV.com so see how much you can save and fight back against these bully monopolies who have ripped us off for decades. Stream your way to savings. Best way to beat these bullies is to post all over the place winter is coming and let them attack everyone.
This should never have been trademarked as it is an English phrase that has been used extensively thoughout the world since the 'Winter' season was named.
The people who are responsible for trademarks are just morons shoud not be allowed to trademark terms that are in general use, or that are part of the standard English language.
Copy and share the image with the girls name/story across the world.
Hey, it was only last month that I thought Winter is Coming. And then I thought, ah, it's December so it has come, if I work for the Met Office. Then I thought, ah, Winter is Coming, but it has not yet come. When I think that Winter is Coming I think of snow and ice and all things nice. Although Winter is Coming, it has not yet come. But Winter is Coming. It is, honestly. Winter is Coming.
On the 21st it will be a different thing. But until then, Winter is Coming. Then again, after the 21st, even though it will have come, it will be less than 12 months before Winter is Coming happens again. indeed, Winter is Coming happens every year.
Winter is Coming is not my favourite time of year. But Winter is Coming means Christmas is Coming (TM).[1] So Winter is Coming also means nice thoughts about Christmas.
Winter is Coming, and the goose is getting fat. Yum, yum. Winter is Coming, nice.
Twats. (Anonymous, obviously.)
[]1 You are not allowed to steal this, you cunts.
Someone should publish a complete list of all shows by the Heartless Bastards Organisation, so that we can all boycott them. Let them see how much their "trademarks" are worth if they're rendered worthless by the fact that their shows no longer have any viewers.
In the meantime, they can shove their "trademarks" where the sun don't shine, closely followed by at least one lighted stick of dynamite.
https://static1.e621.net/data/e3/b6/e3b672270dbf40806e7f59b273f931c0.jpg
from left to right: Puzzle, an Anglo-Indian giraffe (very long story) and Diamond, a zebra who thinks that black is a drab colour and needs to be brightened up a little, and Nightshade, an Egyptian jackal who has no sense of humor at all, and, unlike Diamond, thinks that black is her colour. Diamond and Nightshade are NOT friends. Diamond has just hit Nightshade with a very large snowball.
The takedown notice for this one ought to be interesting.
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