back to article Sorry, iPhone fans – only Fandroids get Barclays' tap-to-withdraw

Barclays is trialling smartphone cash withdrawals. The UK's first contactless mobile cash service will allow the bank's customers to withdraw up to £100 in-branch, with just a tap of their Android smartphone or contactless debit card. The technology offers an alternative to traditional cash withdrawals from specially outfitted …

  1. djstardust

    The Apple walled garden

    Strikes again.

    Why do people pay over the odds for their crap given all it's restrictions.

    Beats me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Apple walled garden

      At least some people's money is safe.

      (Not counting Apple's avarice for a fanboy's cash)

    2. Tessier-Ashpool

      Re: The Apple walled garden

      Ooh let me think. It might have something to do with the fact that no sane person would want a rogue Android app anywhere near their bank account.

    3. fruitoftheloon
      Stop

      @djstardust: Re: The Apple walled garden

      Djstardust,

      the reason why they do this is quite easy really, they are not the same person as you, they have different priorities (rational or otherwise), and differing requirements...

      Hence they chose a phone that you don't like!

      Btw I don't have an iPhone, I f'ing HATE touchscreens, they don't work for me at all...

      Cheers,

      Jay

    4. james 68

      Re: The Apple walled garden

      @djstardust

      It's because Android folks are nicer.

      (Now supported by science no less. http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/22/people-who-use-iphones-are-lying-image-obsessed-show-offs-but-android-users-are-nice-6275655/ )

  2. Lee D Silver badge

    Because Apple refuse to let anyone else touch the parts that can do wireless payments.

    Game over.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No sweat

    I withdrew from Barclays many years ago.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    do they still issue the sticky NFC doohickey ?

    I had one of these (from Barclaycard) which fitted snugly under the casing of my old (non-smart)-phone. Had a lot of fun tapping the housebrick against the card reader, and seeing the look of surprise from cashiers and customers.

    It was actually a pretty nifty idea. Which is probably why it seems to have died .....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: do they still issue the sticky NFC doohickey ?

      I believe Barclaycard still issue them although you might have to ask for them now - I did something similar.

  5. Scotthva5

    How is this progress?

    The Apple vs Android hyperbole aside, is this really that much faster or convenient? You still have to physically open your wallet and wait for the cash to dispense. I fail to see how removing a few button presses (which you still have to do on your phone) is worth all the fuss. Now if it transported the cash directly into my wife's purse I could see the point...

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: How is this progress?

      It makes skimming the card at a cash machine a lot more difficult.

      1. Scotthva5

        Re: How is this progress?

        ...but opens the door for NFC interception.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: How is this progress?

          No, because what is transmitted is a one-time use. If it's like android pay, it uses one time use transaction tokens that expire, the real details aren't sent via NFC.

          The advantage of you phone over chip and pin or mag stripe is it's internet connected and can generate tokens each time, you also have fingerprint scanner too...

          1. Lee D Silver badge

            Re: How is this progress?

            FINGERPRINT SCANNERS ARE NOT FOR AUTHENTICATION.

            How many times do you have to tell people this? You're leaving your fingerprint "password" ALL OVER your phone every time you use it.

    2. paulf Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: How is this progress?

      @ Scotthva5 "You still have to physically open your wallet and wait for the cash to dispense."

      TBH the phone makes things more cumbersome unless you store your phone in your wallet.

      Using a bank card means you open wallet, put card in ATM, get cash, put bank card plus cash into wallet.

      Using a mobe means you have to juggle wallet and phone while also keeping one eye over your shoulder at that shifty looking guy over there. It might be easy for Da Kidz to sort, but I can see it being really easy to put down your phone or wallet or cash on the ATM while trying to put everything away and forget one or more of them.

      It might be a nice idea if, for some odd reason (or you just want to show off), you have phone but not wallet/cards but it sounds like more faff than it's worth.

  6. Mage Silver badge

    Security?

    The non-contact Debit and Credit cards are a security fail. Is this secure?

    1. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: Security?

      Are they though?

      Ok if you get your card stolen/lose it. But other than that I'm not aware of any real issues.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Security?

      NFC itself has nothing to do with security, this should be implemented by the chip + PIN because the magnetic stripe isn't in the least bit secure.

      Medium term it would also mean cash machines with fewer moving parts. Though there are many economists who want to move us away from cash so they can devalue the currency faster.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Security?

      If it's anything like android pay, yes, it generates a unique one use card number that's no use even if it's captured.

      I use android pay, as it's fingerprint check and one use credit card number means it's MORE secure than my debit card (which I have requested a contactless card from my bank)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Magnetic card skimming

    If you don't swipe your card (you tap or insert the chip end in) you prevent skimming since currently almost all skimming relies on data from the magstripe. So using the phone isn't preventing skimming, not using a magstripe is. Of course skimmers will eventually upgrade to devices that do NFC and chip reading, so entering your PIN on your phone would help there by preventing them from capturing your PIN, but other attacks like cash trapping (preventing the cash from being dispensed to you and others, with the criminal sending someone to pick it up later) aren't helped no matter how secure your authentication is.

    But there's also a downside to entering your PIN on your phone. If you pull out your phone at an ATM, you make yourself an easier target for muggers. If they see someone approaching an ATM typing in a PIN they can grab their phone, run to the next ATM around the block, tap it, grab the cash and dump the phone. Or wait for you to cause it to dispense cash, then knock your phone out of your hand from behind on one side to distract you and grab the cash from the other.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Truckle The Uncivil

      Re: Magnetic card skimming

      Yeah, that would be a problem - if anyone were stupid enough to implement it. Why enter a PIN when a fingerprint is better anyway.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Symon

        I read an article about this elsewhere and one of the big advantages they claimed for the system was that you could enter your PIN on your phone instead on the ATM where it could be skimmed.

  8. redpawn Silver badge

    Guarding Against Contagion

    With an Android you will be safe from the germs left by unclean iPhone users at the ATM. Unfortunately this does not solve the problem that iPhone users may have previously touched the cash dispensed. Perhaps these machines can be filled with only unused bank notes to make these ATMs truly safe.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Guarding Against Contagion

      Aha , now I see how you get a gold vulture badge.

    2. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Guarding Against Contagion

      Tsk, tsk. Don't you know iPhone users don't touch cash? They leave that to their batman.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Guarding Against Contagion

        "Aha , now I see how you get a gold vulture badge."

        That's actually a bronze, and I sort of miss mine and they stand out more.

        And before you all jump on the down vote to help get mine back I think it only makes it worse, just ignore me.

        1. Duffy Moon

          Re: Guarding Against Contagion

          AC must have an iPhone, hence he/she can't tell the difference between bronze and gold on the screen.

  9. Neil Alexander

    " Apple restricts the use of iPhones' NFC chips to its own Apple Pay facility and there's no hook-in that for third-party apps from banks or anyone else."

    As far as I'm concerned this is a good thing. At least that way I know there's no leakage of payment data to some rogue application that makes use of an API vulnerability.

    The real question here, though, is why Barclays have had to implement some custom app-powered NFC hook to get this to work when existing NFC payment infrastructure would handle this use case perfectly?

  10. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    I'll make a note in my diary...

    to download this excellent app. What's this it says under the same date? Ah yes, "Hell Freezes Over"

  11. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Car chargers too

    The newest version of the ChargePoint[1] app lets me use the NFC in my Android phone to enable the charger. I no longer need to use a separate card.

    Obviously the phone is just emulating the existing RFID tags that you're issued, but it's still a nifty idea.

    As the tags are very small, I've always worried about getting stranded by having them fall out of my wallet or otherwise losing them.

    [1] A big car charging network on this side of the pond. They're actually very good with customer service and fixing issues with the chargers in my experience.

  12. emmanuel goldstein

    However ...

    All of this is moot if you have rooted your device. Barclays don't do rooted devices.

    1. Phil Kingston

      Re: However ...

      Sounds sensible

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: However ...

        Well, given that rooting is only way to get proper control over your device & arguably makes it more secure e.g. only way to remove dubious pre installed crap ware, to take it further, for most phones updates are not really forthcoming, (depending on your bootloader) rooting usually needed to add e.g. CM so you actually get security updates.

        So, which is more secure?

        A phone way behind on updates OR

        A rooted phone up to date with security fixes?

        1. Phil Kingston

          Re: However ...

          The question isn't as black and white as that. It's more:

          So, which is more trustworthy?

          A phone with a known level of security applied OR

          A rooted phone with who-knows-what done to it?

  13. Jin

    Keep biometrics away if security matters

    Authentication by biometrics in cyberspace comes with poorer security than PIN/password-only authentication. This video explains why and how.

    https://youtu.be/5e2oHZccMe4

  14. Robert.Walter

    Once again Barclays trying to polish a technologically backward turd of a solution. Instead of launching with the safest and most convenient approach offered by Apple Pay.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      As someone has mentioned, ApplePay isn't actually that secure. Each time you use it, you are broadcasting your account details, and open to skimming (for NFC interception), Also as mentioned, AndroidPay is superior, as it keeps a cache of 12 (I believe) one time use card numbers and uses that in preference to your real details. As each one is used, it refills that 12 card numbers. If you have no data, yes, even eventually it will fallback to insecure "iphone mode", but on the whole, it's a superior implementation.

  15. Robert.Walter

    From same brain trust that was 6 months late to the Apple Pay credit card party.

    Once again Barclays trying to polish a technologically backward turd of a solution. Instead of launching with the safest and most convenient approach offered by Apple Pay.

    1. thesykes

      Re: From same brain trust that was 6 months late to the Apple Pay credit card party.

      Not all that convenient for the majority of smartphone owners, who don't own an iPhone.

  16. RyokuMas Silver badge
    Devil

    Great partnership...

    Bonnie & Clyde.

    Ronnie & Reggie.

    ... and now Google and Barclays.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Unpopular as it is

    to say anything vaguely positive about the banksters, Barclays do seem to innovate more than some.

    Obviously we all know this will be attacked sooner or later but sticking a card in the wall and entering a code was invented in the mid sixties, Beatles playing in the background and miniskirts the fore, it's about time something was done.

  18. D@v3

    "The UK's first contactless mobile cash service"

    Pretty sure my local Santander has been doing this for a while. They got some fancy new ATM's in branch a while back and they have a little 'patch' on it with the 'contactless' symbol on it. Haven't tried it myself, so I can't be sure, but that is certainly what it looks like.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The facility is limited to Android smartphones, with iPhone fans left out in the cold." Well with a market share split of approx 85:15 in favour of Android (with the 15% predominantly in a handful of wealthy US cities) why bother at all with the smaller platform?

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2020