back to article Today is the 211th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar

Today marks the 211th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, in which Admiral Horatio Nelson gave the combined naval might of France and Spain a bloody good kicking. The battle was fought off Cape Trafalgar, near Cadiz in south-west Spain. Admiral Nelson's fleet of 27 ships comprehensively defeated 33 French and Spanish …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

    I knew the armed forces were running low on capacity but this is ridiculous.

    1. You aint sin me, roit
      Trollface

      Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

      According to the Daily Mail...

      "The communist-sympathizing BBC news crew didn't even fire a shot".

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

      @Voyna i Mor

      I knew the armed forces were running low on capacity but this is ridiculous.

      In the old days, the enemy would know the game was up whenever Kate Adie appeared wearing a flak jacket and steel helmet

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

        "In the old days, the enemy would know the game was up whenever Kate Adie appeared wearing a flak jacket and steel helmet"

        I may be revealing something I shouldn't, but apparently during Gulf War 1 a member of the BBC production crew approached an army officer and asked if there was any chance of getting hold of an untraceable pistol, because he wanted to shoot Kate Adie before she got them all killed.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

        Thank you from the bottom of my heart for spelling "flak" correctly.

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

          @Archtech

          Thank you from the bottom of my heart for spelling "flak" correctly.

          Phew, what a relief. Otherwise the flak would certainly have come my way for sure!

        2. disgruntled yank

          Re: "and were intercepted earlier this morning off Dover by a news helicopter from the BBC."

          Of course, there is the American usage "flack" for publicist, or as the Webster's on my shelf says, "press agent". So a flak jacket could protect a flack.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      AKA

      National Teabag France day then?

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Old joke warning

    The spot on Victory's deck where he fell is marked by a brass plaque that can still be seen today aboard the Victory, which is now moored as a museum ship in Portsmouth.

    "That plaque is where Nelson fell."

    "I'm not surprised. I tripped over it myself."

  3. Howard Hanek
    Happy

    We Need More Like Him

    I always admired his ability to turn his blind eye toward signals he didn't agree with......

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We Need More Like Him

      All about the judgement of the actor. A certain other more recent figure has also prided herself on going "rogue" and the less said about her the better.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Re: We Need More Like Him

      My first CO upon hearing something ordered from the Commodore, or higher, would hang up the. secure voice hand-set, point to it and say "That radio is broke."

      Icon for all the real Flag Officers.

  4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Brass Plaque...

    The spot on Victory's deck where he fell is marked by a brass plaque that can still be seen today aboard the Victory, which is now moored as a museum ship in Portsmouth.

    http://www.hms-victory.com/things-to-see/quarter-deck

    note: Since 1922, it's been in No. 2 dry dock, and not moored.

    Paris - Lady Hamilton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma,_Lady_Hamilton

    (see "Final years" in above link, tragic end to her life after Nelson's death)

    1. Matt Wellard

      Re: Brass Plaque...

      And you can see it in 360 vision here....

      https://www.360cities.net/image/hms-victory-quarterdeck

    2. P. Lee

      Re: Brass Plaque...

      >note: Since 1922, it's been in No. 2 dry dock, and not moored.

      and it is the oldest of the Navy's officially-in-service vessels.

  5. Jim 59

    Admiral Lord Nelson?

    That's Admiral Lord Viscount Nelson to you, sir.

    1. Aladdin Sane

      Admiral Lord Viscount Nelson?

      That's Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, 1st Duke of Bronté KB to you, peasant.

  6. BebopWeBop
    Pint

    Mmm - well as well as preserving his body in 'refined spirits' (it did happen according to the best sources), sailors were found t o have tapped into the barrel to relieve their thirst (supposedly the origin of the term 'tapping the admiral' - although that bit is disputed (the term) anyway.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Possibly also the source of the vernacular "I'd tap that ass"?

      (Ok, I'm leaving now)

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. graeme leggett Silver badge

    Quotes

    "But in case signals can neither be seen or perfectly understood, no captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy"

    Which kind of sums up the scrum that was naval warfare at the time.

    1. Aladdin Sane

      Re: Quotes

      Hence his last signal - "Engage the enemy more closely"

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Quotes

      It's also a big advantage when you've got the best trained crews, because in time of war no other fleet dares put to sea because there's an English fleet sitting outside their ports waiting to pounce.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Quotes

        The English navy trained mainly for high rates of fire at very close range, directly at the gun crews of the enemy, and had superior gun tech too. The French tended to focus on shooting out the enemies' rigging to immobilize them.

        In most of the battle there was very little wind, so little that ships were towed into position with boats. The English strategy and high rate of fire quickly suppressed enemy cannon fire, while damage to their own rigging meant little.

        The Spanish ships were huge but woefully out of date, basically big targets after the first few volleys.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Quotes

        The tried and tested policy of blockade by RN to keep the enemy from trade.

        1. Mark 85

          Re: Quotes

          The tried and tested policy of blockade by RN to keep the enemy from trade.

          It also prevented the enemy from getting valuable sea time. If you'll read the history, the French Admiral was a) forced to sail and not on a day of his choosing thus the weather was against him. b) His plans were originally not to line up and be sitting ducks. However the lack of sailing time and ability to maneuver was not present in the French and Spanish forces. c) Gun training time was almost zilch as there was no live fire training permitted in harbors.

          Villeneuve knew his fleet was doomed even before they set sail.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Politically Correct Nelson at Trafalgar

    Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."

    Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."

    Nelson: "Hold on, that's not what I dictated to Flags. What's the meaning of this?"

    Hardy: "Sorry sir?"

    Nelson (reading aloud): "' England expects every person to do his or her duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability.' - What gobbledegook is this?"

    Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting 'England ' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

    Nelson: "Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

    Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have now been designated smoke-free working environments."

    Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the mainbrace to steel the men before battle."

    Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. Its part of the Government's policy on binge drinking."

    Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it ........... full speed ahead."

    Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this stretch of water."

    Nelson: "Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest please."

    Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."

    Nelson: "What?"

    Hardy: "Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness; and they said that rope ladders don't meet regulations. They won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

    Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

    Hardy: "He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the foredeck Admiral."

    Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

    Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free environment for the differently abled."

    Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card."

    Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

    Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

    Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

    Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy."

    Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

    Nelson: "What? This is mutiny!"

    Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

    Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

    Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."

    Nelson: "We're not?"

    Hardy: "No, sir. The French and the Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation."

    Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

    Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary report."

    Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy, who speaks ill of your King."

    Hardy: "Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules. It could save your life"

    Nelson: "Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?"

    Hardy: As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu! And there's a ban on corporal punishment."

    Nelson: "What about sodomy?"

    Hardy: "I believe that is now legal, sir."

    Nelson: "In that case............................... kiss me, Hardy."

    1. keith_w
      Pirate

      Re: Politically Correct Nelson at Trafalgar

      "Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency.""

      I cannot beleive that the Royal Navy would have been under represented in these areas.

    2. Herby

      Monty Python...

      Would probably do as good in the "Politically correct" sketch.

      Very good

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Politically Correct Nelson at Trafalgar

      Thank you for that! Made my day... utterly brilliant.

    4. The Axe

      Re: Politically Correct Nelson at Trafalgar

      I see one down vote from a progressive lefty liberal twat.

    5. Pedigree-Pete
      Pint

      Re: Politically Correct Nelson at Trafalgar

      Great, made my day too. Trafalgar Day is my Fathers birthday so I'm sure it'll raise a smile there too. Good job. Have an upvote.

      PP

      icon 'cause there's no shot glass for Rum.

  9. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    Image of "Here Nelson Fell 21st Oct 1805" on HMS Warrior

    http://tinyurl.com/HereNelsonFell

    I was visiting Portsmouth several years ago, and went to see the famous dockyard.

    Nice place. I enjoyed that trip.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: Image of "Here Nelson Fell 21st Oct 1805" on HMS Warrior

      ...HMS Victory

    2. Allan George Dyer

      Re: Image of "Here Nelson Fell 21st Oct 1805" on HMS Warrior

      Bloody hell... you say the HMS Warrior crew have stolen the deck from HMS Victory! Keelhaul the blaggards!

      (HMS Warrior was only launched in 1860, Nelson never stood on it. It is also iron-hulled and still afloat, not far from HMS Victory's dry dock)

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Deja Vu

    > the Russian navy is sailing its sole aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, plus a task group of warships through the English Channel.

    At the beginning of the last century Admiral Rozhestvensky went that way as he sailed the second pacific squadron towards Japan to participate in the Russian version of Trafalgar.

    Sadly for Rozhestvensky it was Trafalgar as seen from the French and Spanish point of view. Admiral Togo crushed them at Tsushima in a completely one sided shoeing.

    The story of the second pacific squadron's journey is pretty much black comedy from begin to ignominious end. One hopes the Kuznetsov's sailors have an easier journey. That and that they don't shoot up any trawlers on the Dogger bank...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Deja Vu

      "Admiral Togo crushed them at Tsushima in a completely one sided shoeing."

      And who helped train the Japanese Navy and supplied them with a number of their ships?

      Good old armaments manufacturing UK.

    2. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Deja Vu

      And that's how I ended up reading the full Wikipedia article about the Battle of Tsushima, and now am looking for the movie about the battle, starring Toshiro Mifune...

      Thanks a lot, anonymous coward, for a lost workday!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Deja Vu

        and now, damnit, I'm searching as well!

  11. Trigonoceps occipitalis

    As the two battle fleets made stately progression towards each other in the gentle morning breeze, Admiral Villeneuve made a signal. Having read the flags the midshipman on duty rushed to Lord Nelson and said "I don't understand the flags sir - With water, it is time."

    Nelson decided to check the signal. Having considered the signal Nelson turned to the snotty and replied "No, you need to read the signal in the original French - A l'eau, c'est l'heure."

    1. graeme leggett Silver badge
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm lost for words. Well played sir.

    3. I am the liquor
      Coat

      If there was ever a post that needed the "I'll get my coat" icon...

      1. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
        FAIL

        Some kind soul would mind explaining the joke?

        The FAIL is for me, obviously ------------------------------------------------>

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Hello sailor x

    4. Chris Holford

      "No, you need to read the signal in the original French - A l'eau, c'est l'heure."

      0r.... "'Allo sailor"

  12. Mark 85

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomDilySlA Well worth the watch.... HMS Victory fires a broadside.

    1. cantankerous swineherd

      ooooh, nasty!

  13. Ralph Online

    1805: British fleet manned by migrants!

    Worth noting that the victories at Trafalgar and then Waterloo ... THANKS in part to people from other countries:

    "The crews of the ships that fought at Trafalgar included sailors from America, Ireland, Prussia, Sweden, the West Indies, Africa, and even France and Spain against whom the British were fighting. On Nelson's ship HMS Victory there were 22 nationalities involved in fighting on the British side."

    Ditto at Waterloo..

    200+ years later we think we can be great standing on our own? Errr no.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 1805: British fleet manned by migrants!

      > even France and Spain against whom the British were fighting

      Not usual for sailors to stay on with their ship after capture, French and Spanish similarly had many British/Colonial crewmen. At critical periods such as this the ships moored well out of port to prevent the very numerous pressed crewman going AWOL. Boat loads of loose ladies, alcohol etc were sent out for the duration.

      >200+ years later we think we can be great standing on our own? Errr no

      Well, sort of - the 3500 Irish sailors and marines were considered British at the time - of the remaining 15,000 or so at Trafalgar well over 14,000 were British mainlanders.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 1805: British fleet manned by migrants!

        I'd also be curious to know how many of those "22 nationalities" were from the British Empire?

    2. Death Boffin
      Mushroom

      Re: 1805: British fleet manned by migrants!

      "The crews of the ships that fought at Trafalgar included sailors from America, Ireland, Prussia, Sweden, the West Indies, Africa, and even France and Spain against whom the British were fighting. On Nelson's ship HMS Victory there were 22 nationalities involved in fighting on the British side."

      The Americans on there were one of the reasons that we had the War of 1812.

    3. DaveDaveDave

      Re: 1805: British fleet manned by migrants!

      It's also interesting to note that the UK had absolutely no controls on immigration up until just the point where the British Empire started to decline. Correlation isn't causation, of course.

      Notable too that Germans were there on our side at Trafalgar, just as at every other major British battle in history other than the (admittedly rather large) anomaly of the two World Wars in the 20th century. The EU thing might have worked out better if we'd done the traditional thing and allied with the Germans against the French (politically speaking, natch*).

      *Although come to think of it, even UKIPers would probably change their minds about the EU if we could use it to abolish France.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not quite...

    "Tactical genius Nelson defied conventional wisdom by cutting the enemy line in three, sailing two columns across the middle of the Franco-Spanish line".

    Nelson was certainly a great admiral, combining the "mad dog" style of aggression very much in favour with the Admiralty and the British people with a deep and wide knowledge of all things naval. However the tactic of cutting across the enemy line, rather than sailing parallel to it, was by no means new at Trafalgar. Offhand I can think of the "Glorious First of June" in 1794, when Howe had done something very similar (mutatis mutandis). I suspect that British admirals had been using such tactics, on and off, throughout most of the 18th Century. The idea was based on the observation that British ships were superior in one-to-one combat, could fire faster and more accurately than their opponents, and therefore benefitted from a close-in, confused battle.

    1. DaveDaveDave

      Re: Not quite...

      There was also an element of protection in 'lose the battle, win the war' if it all went wrong: the British had much better access to suitable wood to build ships' hulls out of than the French, so even in the even that the French caused somewhat more damage, the long-term effects would still be in Britain's favour.

    2. IglooDude

      Re: Not quite...

      While British ships were indeed superior pound-for-pound, the significant tactical advantage was that they left a chunk of the enemy line downwind of them and needing to (slowly) tack back upwind to get back into the battle, while they hammered the rest of the enemy fleet.

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