It looks to me this confirms the EU findings.
Other companies are paying tax money Apple was exempted from - they pay 12.5% but Apple paid far lower than that - thus confirming the special treatment given to Apple against EU rules about state aids.
Even without the €13bn tax bill which Ireland was told collect from Apple, the nation's arrangements with Cupertino is driving tax revenue and spending increases in its budget for 2017. The Irish government has this week put forward its budget for the next year, including an extra €1.3bn package of spending increases and tax …
The claim that Apple paid only 0.04% was later found to be fraudulent, so while it isn't clear exactly what they're paying, but the claims that they paid only a few hundred thousand euros are way off base. If Ireland is forced to change whatever arrangement may exist with Apple, the resulting changes in Apple's corporate structure to move activities out of Ireland might cause them to collect less tax revenue from Apple than they do today. That's presumably why Ireland is fighting against the EU ruling.
Obviously they must be collecting a pretty fair whack from Apple, otherwise why fight against collecting 13 billion euros from them? Even if they were only collecting a billion euros a year, it would take losing all of that for 13 years to add up to 13 billion, and who knows whether Apple will be as successful in 2029 as they are today? So unless there's some other reason why Ireland should fight the EU on this, it seems logical they are probably paying at least that much.
They stand to be a big beneficiary. Tech and service industries will be able to relocate and keep the same staff. (the British isles freedom of movement predates the EU).
Unless the current hard brexit talk is just a ploy to tank the currency prior to an announcement of an EEA plan so currency speculators can make a mint, of course.
Then you are Jon Snow.
Ireland gets its electricity from the North. Non - EU country tariffs could apply and increase our electricity costs.
Ireland imports a lot of UK goods, drink and food. EU tariffs could apply and increase our general daily living costs. Add to that the likelihood that the UK price of goods will increase (due to the GBP/USD rate - although perhaps set off slightly by the EURO/GBP exchange rate at present)
Ireland exports food and drink to the UK and the GBP rate has already begun to bite. The price of beef has fallen up to 30c per Kg due to reduced wholesale demand at the meat factory for UK export. Farmers get less.
So ROI should be worried. Having a few companies move operations to Dublin isn't going to fix the possible wider Brexit issues...
If the worst hard Brexit happens, at least you'll have 30 odd other countries who can take up the slack. (Although getting the electricity there might take some creativity.) We won't.
Although Mrs has promised that there will be no border controls between North and South. The obvious way of achieving that is not leaving the EEA, however it would also be possible if we remained in the customs union. (Be like Turkey). That arrangement would of course prevent us making our own international deals for goods. Either of those arrangements would minimise problems for the republic.
And dismissing it as a 'few' companies would not show foresight. Something like 40% of the 250 biggest multinationals have their European HQ in the UK. I'm sure that an Apple style tax break for companies forced to relocate to remain in the EEA/EU would attract a lot.
I guess the republic could also review its decision not to join the Schengen area if it wants to put pressure on the UK. (Or at least the Xenophobic part to whom the government is pandering.)
"Although Mrs has promised that there will be no border controls between North and South."
Except that's not up to Ireland, NI or UK, but up to the EU decide.
If there is no Right of Residence of EU Citizens and Freedom of movement to UK, then there will be a hard border for first time ever NI <-> Ireland. May's promise is hot air.
Also even during Dev's so called Economic War against the EU, there was always a Common Travel Area. That may end for first time ever. There will be the cost of a border fence. Even before 1973 and during troubles there has never been a physical border.
UK wants the NI-UK to Ireland border to be the Irish ports and airports, like 13th Century to 1922! Neither EU nor Ireland will agree to that.
In the long term Ireland may benefit if International and other EU suppliers ship direct to Ireland rather than is so often the case via a UK middle man. Books, Magazines, Music, DVDs, Games etc very much treat Ireland as a UK region. DVDs etc often have an extra added Irish classification sticker, though some are printed, but alongside the UK one!
Very many "Irish" papers are thinly disguised UK ones.
BBC & ITV are the next popular TV stations and available to near 100% FTA and over 82% get them in a PayTV package. PayTV historically high as UK TV wasn't always FTA on Satellite, though Dublin, East, South East and Border got Terrestrial TV from UK since 1950s, Irish TV only started hours before 1962.
This is biggest change since Irish break with Sterling in 1979 (In reality Ireland only had its own currency 1979 to 1999)
Ireland has suffered because UK left ERM and didn't join Euro. Brexit will not be as simple as Ni Unionists or Brexiteers claim. EU totally decides what it is, with any one of the 27 having a veto!
The Referendum had lies on both sides.
It's FAR worse for Gibraltar who face the border with Spain being closed and withdrawal of 14,000 Spanish workers and loss of Spanish trade. It's only because UK and Spain are both in EU that the Spanish - Gib border is cordial!
>And would a Brexitted UK govt see the potential this offers for a bit of competitive tax marketing? If they do, beware of flying porcines.
Well it would certainly help the Greeks with Grexit, the Euro is killing them and they could do with a devaluation and debt default as they will never be able to pay back those loans. They should never have been in the Euro to start with however, a view the German taxpayer would strongly endorse I imagine.
An Irishman on Facebook put up a video shortly after the Apple Tax thing and came out with the best line about this whole thing:
"Fuck Apple. Fuck the lot of them. Take the money. Take the money and start laying cables and start redoing roads and start to get the likes of meself, all the boys that had to leave, to get everyone back. Because when people are working their spending money. How much is Apple spending? Damn all. People are still going to go out and buy their phones, they're still going to go and make their profit."
But no. The government are only interested - like every other government in the world - in serving themselves. They're giving themselves a €4,000 pay increase immediately but the €5 increase in pensions has to wait until March.
And people died for the country to have the right to it's own determination and to be able to make its own laws etc, only for these jackasses to turn round and stick two fingers up to the country and the rest of the world and say "we don't want the €13 billion".
Well if they don't want it, I'll gladly have it. And I'd do a damn sight better job of doing something worthwhile with it!
>Hard to argue with this.
I'll give it a go, the only reason Apple (and others) were there in the first place was because of the dodgy tax deals. They (and others) pump huge amounts into the Irish economy in wages etc and over time that's bigger than the windfall. Careful what you wish for as all the jobs will move offshore to elsewhere where they don't give shit about the pensioners, industrial waste, healthcare etc. It's easy when you've got money to be principled, they're more flexible if one is starving.
> They (and others) pump huge amounts into the Irish economy in wages etc and over time that's bigger than the windfall.
Not as much as us - Ulster Bank Ireland (despite the name it's Irish) and Lloyd's Ireland got £14 Billion from the British Tax Payer after '08.
All told the Irish bank bailout ran to 85 billion Euro - those tax revenues are comparative peanuts.
>>Not as much as us - Ulster Bank Ireland (despite the name it's Irish).
>No, it's a UK bank, owned by RBS, sadly.
Parent company is RBS but it's an Irish Bank, subject to the Central Bank of Ireland. Its debts alone to the UK tax payer are now £15 billion - it's just agreed a repayment plan (of sorts)
'And people died for the country to have the right to it's own determination and to be able to make its own laws etc, only for these jackasses to turn round and stick two fingers up to the country and the rest of the world and say "we don't want the €13 billion".'
It's that making its own laws bit that enabled Ireland to make the deal that brought Apple into Ireland in the first place. The EU's instruction to charge that €13 billion is an attempt to end that deal; I don't think they're doing it to benefit the Irish economy.
"Apple was indeed having a 'special arrangement', f*cking Irish (and european) taxpayers in the process"
Excluding the European taxpayers bit, what part of "the nation's arrangements with Cupertino is driving tax revenue and spending increases in its budget for 2017" did you not understand?
The whole point of that sweetheart deal is that the Irish economy gets an income it wouldn't otherwise have had. The rest of the EU is, of course, jealous. You have to look at the whole picture: without that deal it wouldn't have been €13 billion plus all the other income, it would have been nothing, or at least the income from a local branch office.
"The 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate managed to bring in €6.87bn in 2015, more than €2bn than what had been anticipated."
But Apple never paid that 12.5% because of its special deals. That means other companies did, but not Apple - thus the illegal state aids - and that 2€ could have been even more, and Apple would have little choices to move outside Ireland within the EU.
Actually other companies are paying for Irish services Apple uses without paying.
It's clear Apple's PRs are working hard to put lipstick on the pig...
Now, you ask yourself why a Fortune 5 company in the World. Now, developing programming medical software program for patient care. Once developed McKesson send it through CyberArk encrypted to Ireland to be, sold back to medical users (e.g., hospitals, medical offices, wearable appliances). Let's BE VERY clear; Ireland imposes 0.065% income tax ) Intellectual Property (IP)! In some cases Ireland considers (IP) 'Capital Gaines'. McKesson Ireland, boxes the ISO image and sends it back to the USA. Guess what there's no tariff imposed by the USA. The amount of money McKesson has cheated the USA citizens through this illegal loop-hole dwarfs Apples fines, by 100's of BILLIONS of USA taxes they evaded.