Sage advice: Avoid the Windows 10 Anniversary Update – it knackers our accounting app

Accounting software developer Sage has warned that the Windows 10 Anniversary Edition may break your Sage 50 installation. In an advisory circulated to customers on Tuesday, Sage says the latest version of Microsoft's operating system can create a conflict that leaves people unable to access their Sage accounts. Essentially, …

[Pascal Monett]

"operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Remind me one thing : .Net is a Microsoft product, right ?

So you're telling me that Microsoft created an update to its OS that knackered one of its own products and couldn't be bothered to find that out in the test phase ?

Does Microsoft really not have a test phase any more ?

I can understand knackering Norton or Avira, everyone gets a kick out of that, but your own product ?

Maybe you should be a little bit less Agile and a bit more thorough ?

"Actually hate Windows 1 0" - welcome to the club.

[AMBxx]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Anyone know if this is widespread?

No Sage here, but .Net 3.5 still available after Anniversary Update.

[K]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Whilst I dislike M$ products, I would not lay blame at their door - Its upto each developer to test compatibility with the hosting platform/underlying OS, hence this is Sage's responsibility.

[Dan 55]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

You write something targeting .NET 3.5 and the OS pulls the rug out from under your feet, but only on certain installations... how are you supposed to test for that?

[alain williams]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Its upto each developer to test compatibility with the hosting platform/underlying OS, hence this is Sage's responsibility.

But there is also a responsibility of the OS developer to not break backwards compatibility. With MS this is doubly important since users cannot stop updates from being installed.

MS do not provide ISV early bird reviews of their updates which might allow them to test and identify problems; the best that ISVs can do is, like everyone else, scrabble around to find a fix after an MS update unexpectedly breaks working software.

[mr_souter_Working]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"But there is also a responsibility of the OS developer to not break backwards compatibility" - no there actually isn't, they should certainly make sure that users are AWARE that something will no longer be compatible - at least to the extent of putting in the KB article for the anniversary update that .NET 3.5 will be disabled as part of the update. however crApple get away with ditching any sort of backwards compatibility whenever they feel like it - both in the OS and obviously in the hardware

MS have bent over backwards to retain compatibility with everything, and they get roasted for it on a regular basis (after all, do we REALLY need to be able to run 16-bit applications in this day and age?).

so they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

i agree that the MS really seems to be letting the testing phase slide a lot - and i have no intention of moving away from Windows 7 until i replace my main computers (hardware driver issues prevent win10 from working reliably) sometime in the next 2-3 years.

[Paul Crawford]

Re: do we REALLY need to be able to run 16-bit applications in this day and age?

In a number of cases - yes. Companies have programs written for the DOS era that do the job perfectly, and have been for donkey's years. Replacing them would bring a whole lot of cost, risk and business interruptions so if there is not a good reason to change them, they don't.

A good reason is something better for the company. Having your OS provider pull things for little reason is not seen as a good reason.

Ironically for many DOS programs (as opposed to Windows 3.1 16-bit stuff) you get better behaviour from dosemu on Linux, and the options (if you need/dare) to allow direct hardware access to certain things.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"MS have bent over backwards to retain compatibility with everything, and they get roasted for it on a regular basis (after all, do we REALLY need to be able to run 16-bit applications in this day and age?)."

To my mind, that's the main reason people continue to use Windows and develop for it. Stuff continuing to work without aggravation is a very good way to keep your installed base happy. When Apple went from 9.2 to 10 there was much wailing and teeth-gnashing because the compatibility mode was, frankly, crap. The XP emulator in 7 was a bit of a PITA too, but an awful lot of stuff continued to work under 7.

[Luna Tick]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"no there actually isn't"

Yes, there actually is, here why: Windows now for all intents and purposes removes the ability to control the updates. For most ordinary users what MS says, goes and as such we are getting quite limited in our ability to "keep things going" at our discretion.

For all the MS hate around the globe, Windows is not some play platform, it is the platform the world and especially the business world runs on, and MS built an empire based on that reality. With benefits come responsibilities and that of MS is to make sure that they don't break the world for no good reason.

I don't necessarily think that MS does a bad job of maintaining backwards compatibility, actually it is quite superb which is one of the main reason the world does run on Windows. But because of this, deprecation or compatibility-breaking of long-standing features or frameworks needs to be 1) extremely careful 2) well documented and properly communicated to the development community well in advance, and I'm not talking about some obscure KB article.

[Mage]

Re: I don't necessarily think that MS does a bad job of maintaining backwards compatibility,

Till Vista.

From Vista onwards they don't seem to care.

They broke NT3.5 with applications for Win95 specially crafted so they would fail on Win3.x + Win32s. So I think (but may be wrong) that many got NT3.51 free, which fixed that.

Applications I wrote for NT 3.5 still worked on XP, but some few Win3.x and Win9x programs and games needed patches (GST Designworks, DTP, Alpha Centauri), it was less backward compatible compare to NT4 / Win2K. Vista / Win7 were dreadful, even breaking Paint Shop Pro.

WOW & NTVDM used to be quite good, but basically killed with Vista. (The DosBox VM /Emulator though was already better for DOS applications than NTVDM and works on later Windows as well as ARM).

[hplasm]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"Windows is not some play platform..."

Citation needed.

[Pompous Git]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"Windows is not some play platform..."

Citation needed.

Not really. Try running actual productivity software on Linux such as CorelDRAW! Suite and Adobe InDesign. Oh, that's right. I forgot. Businesses' needs are "niche" products. Academic needs? Forget the Oxford English Dictionary and the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Who needs them?

Book publishing annual revenue is ~120 billion Euros per annum. Magazine sales are worth ~100 billion US dollars annually. I'm willing to bet that hardly any of that revenue can be attributed to the oh-so-professional Linux platform. FFS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

That oh so professional Linux platform you mention happens to pretty much run the Internet 24/7, with very few issues. The oh-so pro Windows 10 can't run basic productivity software, or keep a shitty webcam working, or let the audio on your £2.5k designed for Windows 10 HP Elitebook work reliably, or your L2TP VPN which suddenly screws mid-morning. Personally my laptop at home runs Linux and I use it every day, it causes me no issues whatsoever and has plenty of software available for doing real work, feel free to check it out.

[Pompous Git]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

That oh so professional Linux platform you mention happens to pretty much run the Internet 24/7, with very few issues. The oh-so pro Windows 10 can't run basic productivity software,

First, running the Internet isn't going to help very much when what your business entails is laying out pages for publication, or running a vinyl sign-cutter for example. The fact that Apache is vastly more successful than Internet Information Server is completely and utterly irrelevant.

I responded to a comment about Windows, not Windows 10. I have been severely critical of Windows 10 and ran it for less than a day before consigning it to the scrapheap where it belongs. For more than a year since MS screwed me over I have run Linux Mint on three machines not 24/7, but most (95%+) of the time and I'm mostly well pleased with the changeover. But...

There are as I pointed out before no suitable FOSS alternatives for some productivity software. I mentioned here the other day how creating a simple video DVD took the best part of an hour when the same took only a minute using Windows software. Do you really believe customers are going to wear a 15x increase in chargeable time just so you can say "I'm using a professional OS rather than a toy OS"?

This thread is about accounting software. Here in Oz small biz use MYOB a lot. Fortunately, unlike a lot of my software, it runs under WINE just fine. And that's just as well. One of the small businesses I recently suggested try Mint also tried Manager as a possible substitute for MYOB. Everything went swimmingly until she attempted to restore from a backup. Whoopsie. How professional is a package that can't restore its own data? Do you think the taxman is going to believe a dog ate your homework?

I had the same problem with the email client Evolution the other day. It suddenly lost all of my contacts. Restoring from the backup didn't work. Reinstalling and restoring didn't work. Creating a new contacts list doesn't work. Basically it's fucked. I shall try Zimbra and if that doesn't work I'm seriously thinking of canning Mint on my main machine and going back to Windows 7. I might be retired, but I really don't want to have to fart around to get basic things to work. Let's face it, I don't get paid to do this shit these days.

[K]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

You can't constantly maintain backwards compatibility.. Its one of the reason OS's have become the bloated pieces of.crap they currently are!

Whilst I accept a certain level must be maintained, where something does break, the developer of software than runs on that platform has responsibility for fixing it..

[Oengus]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Does Microsoft really not have a test phase any more ?

Of course they do. They are called Windows 10 Users...

[Wade Burchette]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

"So you're telling me that Microsoft created an update to its OS that knackered one of its own products and couldn't be bothered to find that out in the test phase ?"

Not uncommon. To date, I have logged 23 Windows 7 updates that interfere with a Microsoft program I use every day.

[sabroni]

Re: I have logged 23 Windows 7 updates that interfere with a Microsoft program I use every day.

Tried updating to 10?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: I have logged 23 Windows 7 updates that interfere with a Microsoft program I use every day.

"Tried updating to 10?"

I think he was taking the view that 23 was too many, not too few.

[Mark Dempster]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Sage isn't an MS product. It's well-enough established in the UK that you'd think one of them would have tested it, though...

[Nick Ryan]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

but, but, but... .net was promised as an end to DLL hell. Also, all .net versions would be forward compatible. So, DLL hell, caused by Microsoft's abject failure to do anything sensible with libraries, for example such terribly difficult to comprehend principles as a standardised version scheme built into the "open library" code, hasn't been fixed by DLL hell x 100 with added registry stupidity built in, or .net/COM as it's otherwise known which is of course the bastard descendent of ActiveX, OLE and DDE before it.

While I'm happy to criticise MS (to be fair, all IT vendors), Sage has some responsibility here as they should code their applications defensively and clearly inform users of any prerequisite failures and give them the information to deal with the problems. Checking for prequisites at install time only is not acceptable. Unfortunately from experience the quality of Sage coding has often left rather a lot to be desired but this isn't helped by Microsoft's VS environment which tends to promote hard linked dependencies without easy and graduated dependency failure handling.

[Sirius Lee]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

It is a shame that Microsoft disabled .NET Framework 3.5 by default.

However, version 3.5 is now nearly 10 years old. Almost anything that will run against version 3.5 will run against the current version 4.6.1 - because it's backwards compatible - and for the developer it's a minor config file change to make that happen.

That a commercial software company with the reach of Sage is relying on an ancient (by software standards) version of the .NET Framework is asking for trouble and they - or more specifically their clients - seem to have got it in spades.

By all mean, berate Microsoft. But don't hold back your ire for the software company either.

I imagine the argument Sage will advance is that .NET 3.5 is installed on more machines. This may be true but its not difficult include with your software's installer a module to update the version of the framework. That may leave people still running Windows XP - unsupported now for half a decade - but is that really Microsoft's problem?

Not in my opinion. In my opinion the blame for this issue lies with Sage.

[Hans 1]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

>Almost anything that will run against version 3.5 will run against the current version 4.6.1

Almost ... well, at the very least, Sage won't.

Had this discussion on here more than once, .Net apps are supposed to be forward compatible, on paper, yes ...

[Missing Semicolon]

Re: "operating system updates end up disabling the framework"

Don't forget that Sage had no version that worked with Windows10 for many monthas after the official launch of Win10. Even though the previews had been available for months before that. They really had not started until enough customers complained.

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon, son!

Sage - "Testing our app on pre-release version of the OS? No, never heard of that!"

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: C'mon, son!

MS - "Testing your apps on pre-release version of the OS? No, never heard of that!"

FTFY

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: C'mon, son!

As far as I can tell, Sage have never tested their products on anything other than their development machines. For everything else they just wait for the customers to ring support.

[Anonymous Coward]

It can't be Sage's fault

because MS!

[Preston Munchensonton]

Re: It can't be Sage's fault

Since the update came out on 8/2, why hasn't this been caught before yesterday? That's not MS fault. Sage has always been lazy around everything, including their own app.

[Mage]

Ironic

Programs like Sage Line 50 are the main reason small Business have stuck with Windows since the Vista débâcle. MS needs to simply produce an updated version of XP rather than all these GUI and Marketing experiments driven by people with no interest in legacy software and clueless about GUI design. Forget Phone / tablet / Worstation / Console universal apps and copying Adobe and Google.

Don't call the OSes for Tablets, console or Phone or embedded "Windows". Differentiate and support the core business, desktop, properly!

This is Microsoft's fault. All XP and Vista drivers and programs should work on Win 10 otherwise it's pointless and people are better migrating to Linux.

[A Non e-mouse]

Re: Ironic

MS needs to simply produce an updated version of XP...

They did. It was called Windows 7.

[Anonymous Coward]

The important Win7 patch folks is KB3172605.

Windows 7 'has become' the new swiss army knife - XP, but only after 250+ security and optional updates and the fact peripherals/device drivers covering a 5 years period will have Win7 drivers.

Win7 was the new swiss army knife until Microsoft broke the blade purposely, during the Windows 10 free rollout.

Thankfully, Windows Update on Windows 7 now works again (and quickly) with the September 13th re-release of the July roll-up too (which fixed June's roll-up) KB3172605. No, I'm not making up that convoluted fcuk up of patch releases.

Now Windows 10 upgrade is out of the way, funny how Win7 Windows Update now works again. Hope the UK's SFO is reading, needs a proper investigation gvien the number of people affected.

The important patch folks is KB3172605, if you want your life back from endless 12 hours waits. But if you are still managing to run Windows 7, without a forced upgrade to Win10 you probably already knew this patch was the one.

Just to add, it works as of now, that is. Tested with fresh installs of Win7SP1 and restored Win7SP1 systems. (Restored images were the big problem upto now)

[hamiltoneuk]

Re: The important Win7 patch folks is KB3172605.

Good comment. I gave up on Win 7 for that very reason, the updates took forever. I suspect they prioritise PCs that have more recent CPUs. Not sure if that's my paranoia or not. Definitely Sage were always pestering me to buy their pricey upgrade so that it would work with Win 8. Of course I never bothered with that and their old version works fine with Win 10 both with and without the happy anniversary update.

[Pompous Git]

Re: Ironic

They did. It was called Windows 7.

Then like a two year old having a tantrum, they broke it :-(

[Mage]

Re:It was called Windows 7.

Garbage, that was a bug fix of Vista and should have been free to Vista Users. It was not an updated XP as it still depreciated GDI based apps (almost everything not a game or multimedia) in favour of the "new" Gamer and Eye candy orientated APIs.

Printer & Graphics GDI support should never have been moved into the Kernel (at NT4.0).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Re:It was called Windows 7.

Garbage, that was a bug fix of Vista and should have been free to Vista Users. It was not an updated XP as it still depreciated GDI based apps (almost everything not a game or multimedia) in favour of the "new" Gamer and Eye candy orientated APIs.

Our recollections are different. Windows 7 still supports GDI. In fact, they added hardware acceleration for it.

Gamer APIs? Like DirectX, included with Windows 95?

Also, not sure what the "Eye candy" API is. Do you mean Aero? or do you mean GDI+? GDI+ was introduced with XP.

[mr_souter_Working]

Re: Ironic

"All XP and Vista drivers and programs should work on Win 10"

seriously???????

hang on a second, i will get a hose, as you seem to need some air piped to where your head is

[phuzz]

Re: Ironic

Back in the days of XP: "ugh windows bluescreens all the time, why do microsoft allow drivers full access to the kernel?"

Now: "why won't my driver from XP work on Windows 10? this is all microsofts fault!"

See also "windows is so insecure, every user has admin rights" vs "omg UAC breaks everything"

[Mage]

Re:BSOD

Back in the days of XP: "ugh windows bluescreens all the time, why do microsoft allow drivers full access to the kernel?"

That happened since NT4.0. Fixable by using decent graphics cards / Printer and drivers. But it should NEVER have been done.

Win7 / Win8 / Win10 are no more stable or secure than properly set-up up NT3.5, NT3.51, NT4.0, Win2K or XP when they were supported.

Win3.0, Win95a, Win ME were garbage. Win3.1x, Win95b, Win98, Win98SE were all far inferior to any NT version, Vista included, but at least could be set up reasonably properly, though practically zero security and no ability to create named pipes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Red Hat v Fedora model.

SSD installs of Windows 10 AU 1607 still freezing randomly, two months on...

Red Hat v Fedora model, when will Microsoft learn?

Microsoft's model is something akin to Fedora Beta (Win10 release) v Fedora Alpha (Win10 insider) and I'm probably insulting Fedora and over complimenting Microsoft, in saying that.

There needs to be a much bigger distinction/gap between Windows 10 insider builds and release.

[yoganmahew]

Re: Red Hat v Fedora model.

I haven't had the SSD freezes until the Anniversary edition. I've rolled it back (problem fixed), but can't ignore it forever. Chance of being hear by Microsoft? Zero.:(

The missus reckons we should bite the bullet and embrace the penguin.

[sabroni]

Re: The missus reckons we should bite the bullet and embrace the penguin.

Wish my missus was that dirty. I'm lucky if she dresses up as a nurse. I suggested bullet biting once and had to sleep on the settee for a week, so I'm loathe to bring up bestiality.

[Paul Crawford]

Re: The missus reckons we should bite the bullet and embrace the penguin.

No point in asking then, you'd be flogging a dead horse.

[Dwarf]

Both at fault

Both vendors are at fault here

Sage - Who need to update their software to use something mildly current generation, the software has loads of wierd dependencies, legacy components and custom things that do not use the standard OS functions - this helps to force the mandatory support agreements as nobody else can understand what's going on inside the software when it invariably breaks.

Microsoft - Why cut out older software functionality that is already installed on the machine when it's doing an 'upgrade'. If it were a fresh install, then drop the option and people can install it if it's needed.

[Tezfair]

I ran version 19 of instant accounts for years until I went to W10 and it refused to work. I had to upgrade to v22 (or stop supporting W10) so this is almost old news to me

[Anonymous Coward]

please clarify

Is it Windows 10 or is it Windows 1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: please clarify

No, no, it is Windows 0.1.0

[Nunyabiznes]

Re: please clarify

NEIN! Windows 1.D'OH

[GeezaGaz]

Small Businesses....and old people

>Essentially, users who have updated to the latest version of Windows 10 are knocked back with weird password errors when trying to log into *Saga* 50, a financial management package aimed at small businesses.

Saga 50? So you are saying this only affects the older generation of business owners??? :)

[Shufflemoomin]

Not limited to Sage

I recently (stupidly) upgraded to the anniversary update and I'm also having issues with .NET 3.5. It keeps popping up telling me that some programs or features require .NET 3.5 and when I click install, it fails. Apparently the work-around is to install it directly from my install media. It's 2016 and Microsoft are telling me to dig out an install disk so I can install *their* product on *their* operating system.

[mr_souter_Working]

Re: Not limited to Sage

you're obviously not a server engineer - we get this all the time

certain MS products REQUIRE .NET 3.5 in order to work, but you can't just enable it on a server, you need the original install media (as if we build servers using media these days!)

very annoying, but you get used to it

:/

[GrumpyOldMan]

Just to add fuel...

I hate W10. I really do. But I try to not let my abhorrence and dislike of the abysmal mess affect the rest of my household. But yesterday wifey finally got her new work laptop onto the network only to discover that the W7 she knows and loves has been replaced by W10, and it took her hours longer to do her normal work and spent the afternoon shouting and yelling at it. Now wants to revert back to W7 badly.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Just to add fuel...

"Now wants to revert back to W7 badly."

Reverting well would be even better.

Mine's the one with a copy of Fowler in the pocket.

[Wensleydale Cheese]

Re: Just to add fuel...

"Mine's the one with a copy of Fowler in the pocket."

Very appropriate given your moniker.

[Patrician]

Re: Just to add fuel...

I'm curious why it took her "hours longer" to do her normal work? Does doing her normal work usually require "hours" spent in the OS? Email, web and Office, and pretty much any other software, is run in exactly the same way as on Windows 7, click start button/orb/flag/logo select software required and click it to run it. Once you're in that software there is little to no difference between Windows 7 & 10 really.

[JLV]

Re: Just to add fuel...

You are full of it, P.

Ever since Win 8, any minor/config tweak to Windows to personalize/set it up for my use starts out with a Google or superuser.com search, in order to find out where they've moved things.

There was a bit of that w 7 vs XP, true. But no more than you could expect after about 10 years of OS evolution.

When 8.0 instructions are sometimes inapplicable to 8.1 in weird ways, then yes, you can spend hours reconfiguring your PC. Especially if you are a power user and not just a mail, browser and office "genius" like yourself.

I think I will just bone up using on Powershell for configuration instead. That should be more stable and I am looking forward to compare/contrast w bash. But it's not an option for the average Win user, izzit?

I rarely use the word shill, but you well deserve it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Avoid the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?

I stopped reading after "Windows 10", which I intend to ignore entirely.

[Steve Davies 3]

These tales of woe

are from supposedly IT Literate people (El Reg commentards).

Please spare a thought for those who aren't like us and got W10 forced upon them and they didn't have the skills (or the gumption) to realised they could back out.

These are the unfortunate victims of Microsoft in 2016.

Make it you good deed for the day/week/month and resuce them from the prison sentence that is Windows 1.0.

you know it makes sense.

[Paul Woodhouse]

hmm, I fixed this in a roundabout kinda way the other day, found the sage update service that wasn't starting, tried to run its .exe manually and the computer offered to update .net for me, let it do it and all was happy afterwards.

[Zippy's Sausage Factory]

Sage has been like this since forever...

I remember years ago it used to be you couldn't even have Sage on a network share unless it was Novell.

Honestly why people continue to use Sage for anything, ever, I have no idea.

[VinceH]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

It may depend on how extensively people use its features and facilities.

For me, despite its many flaws (and inconsistencies in the UI in places), I have yet to find anything that comes even close to doing all of the things I need to be able to do (and I have looked very hard) - whether it's something I use only for my own accounts, or something I use for clients. Some can do 'this' but not 'that'; some can do 'that', but 'this' is done differently and in a way that makes it really slow, and so on.

[Paul Woodhouse]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

Give Xero a go...

[VinceH]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

Cloud. Cough. Splutter. Puke.

[Paul Woodhouse]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

@vinch...

Sage is doing its best to force all its customers to cloudy type things at the moment... bit of a mistake I think, they are way way way behind xero and about their only strong point is the fact stuff runs best locally... The new data services you have to install on any machine that might share sage data is horrific and pointless.

[VinceH]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

Yes, I know - and/or to a subscription model for their software.

However, that's irrelevant, because the version of the software I have (Sage Accounts 2013) works perfectly well, so I have no reason to upgrade any further (and nor do I want to due to a disagreement I had with Sage a while back - mentioned elsewhere in these comments).

The bottom line, therefore, is just because Sage are trying to push people cloudward, doesn't mean I have to follow the sheep - and nor does it mean I have to stray into another cloud-bound flock.

Although I don't really have the time, I have been (on and off for a few years) toying with the idea of writing something of my own- far less feature rich than big packages like Sage, but containing functionality that covers all the things I need to be able to do (and making up for some annoyances I have with the software). I'll need a very big supply of round tuits for that, though.

[Fonant]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

I've been working on data import/export from a Sage 50 UK database. If you look at the table schema it's (a) truly horrible and (b) amazing that it even works...

[Paul Woodhouse]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

lol, aye, still use Delphi tables as well IIRC... reet PITA for any form of migration...

[MatthewSt]

Re: Sage has been like this since forever...

Not impossible though. Check out Movemybooks (Disclaimer: Gainfully employed by the operator of aforementioned service)

[MrKrotos]

Tbh I like Windows 10, but then again I like Windows 7 and Linux (still learning).

What I find funny is the fact that people seem to be upgrading (updating?) machines without doing any testing! and not just any machine but machines running payroll software! Are you mad?

Not sure what others do but we generally test stuff before doing it on live machines!

[tirk]

Not sure what others do but we generally test stuff before doing it on live machines!

You probably have a boss that allows you to buy a second licence of (whatever) to allow it to be tested.

[Doctor Syntax]

"What I find funny is the fact that people seem to be upgrading (updating?) machines ...

Not sure what others do but we generally test stuff before doing it on live machines!"

You're missing a few things.

Firstly these are small businesses.

Secondly, because they're small businesses they don't have the luxury of a full time IT team nor a separate test system.

Thirdly, again because they're small businesses they probably started out on W7 Professional because - well, they're using the computers in a trade or profession. They're not big enterprises so they didn't have W7 Enterprise. That means they now don't have W10 Enterprise - they're still not big enterprises - so they have no control over updates anyway. Even if they had a test system they have no ability to stop the live system updating before the test nor hold it back even if they'd tested and found the problem.

You're probably looking at it from the perspective of your own work environment but one size does not fit all.

[Sgt_Oddball]

It also knackers...

Sage 200 as well - had the accounts on us this morning trying to reinstall .NET 3.5 repeatedly. Thankfully got it working again in the end but to a beancounter it's 'scary stuff' when sage doesn't work.

[VinceH]

Re: It also knackers...

When I forwarded the info to El Reg yesterday evening (the email I received from Sage only mentions Sage 50 Accounts) the possibility of other versions being affected didn't occur to me, but it did this morning.

I don't know anything about 200 because I've never used anything beyond 50 - but I have also used Instant in the past and, AIUI, Instant is more or less a cut down version of 50, so I don't see why that wouldn't also be affected.

Where I'm working today, they use Instant for invoicing - it's run on four computers (legitimately licenced for each, before anyone asks!) using a shared backup system, with one being the 'active' user at any one time¹. Three of the computers are running Windows 8, and one of them Windows 10 - and AFAIK (as in nobody's asked me why "it's broken") it's working.

Then again, the email about Sage 50 only said it affected some users, so that it's working here doesn't prove anything.

Another factor could be the specific version; I run Sage 50 Accounts Plus 2013 - so a few years old (and long since out of Sage Cover). I've never upgraded, or continued with cover, because of a disagreement I had with Sage a few years ago². The version of Instant this company uses is a couple of years newer. *Shrugs*.

^{1. I want to move them to something else, but I haven't found anything suitable yet - and I have been considering whether I can write something suitable myself. (I've written custom invoicing software for other clients in the past, but this company would need something completely different to any of those.)}

^{2. A disagreement over their mishandling of my email address - the upshot of which is that they were supposed to have scrubbed it completely from their records. Apparently, since they sent me that email, they didn't do this quite so completely after all. I should be annoyed by that, but under the circumstances, I'm glad they didn't.}

[rhydian]

Sage: Newcastle's revenge on the world...

[tirk]

Sage: Newcastle's revenge on the world...

We asked MS to send Michael Caine to sort things out there, but unfortunately they only had Sylvester Stallone available. (And he went to the wrong city).

[Anonymous Coward]

Sage: Newcastle's revenge on the world

Remember when the secret code to unlock more users was "Longbenton"?

[HmmmYes]

Hmm, why write an app to .Net?

Just stick to plain C99. Any extra functionality use QT.

[Stevie]

Bah!

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooal!

Why are Microsoft doing impressions of Norton?

[Efros]

Quickbooks

Acquaintance of mine lost his QB 2010 installation on his W7 machine when someone clicked the wrong button. Upgrade proceeded to wipe hard drive and install W10, this failed and left him with the only option of restoring to factory settings. In the meantime he had bought a brand spanking new lenovo only to find his version of QuickBooks wouldn't install on W10 he had to buy the latest version of QB for a further $200. Meanwhile the restore to factory conditions s worked but meant that his QB files were now gone... unfortunately his backup habits were not good and the external drive he allegedly used seems to have suffered a physical failure... fortunately he has a paper trail... unfortunately he now has to re-enter all that stuff. All in all he estimates that errant click has cost him close to $1500.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Quickbooks

"All in all he estimates that errant click has cost him close to $1500."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/27/windows_10_small_claims_settlement/

[Leeroy]

Not just Sage

The anniversary update has also broken. ..

Screenconnect, perpetual 10 tech legacy license

Sage 50, managed to fix this on 3x pc's but one still refuses to work.

Acrobat Pro 9, downgraded to 8 and it works on several pc's

Unfortunately I didn't have the authority to prevent the free upgrade/ downgrade to Win 10. I just have to mop up the mess.

[dotdan]

Re: Not just Sage

Breaks Screenconnect? Not here - 180 remote PCs, about 40 of them running Windows 10. None have any problems, no matter if they have Anniversary Update or not. Using v6, self-hosted.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 Anniversary Edition

I don't understand why Microsoft don't include a rollback facility in these OS upgrades.

[DJV]

Re: Windows 10 Anniversary Edition

I hope that was sarcasm!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-downgrade-windows-10-anniversary-update-before-its-too-late-1574488

[cmaurand]

It knackers all sorts of things

The anniversary edition knackered more than just sage. I have problems with a few things and it's slower.

[JoWa]

So Sage are pissed because their reliance on .net 3.5 (released Nov 2007) has caught up with them. Tough luck.Take responsibility for your own actions (or inaction as the case appears to be).

[rosmith]

"So you're saying that Microsoft created an update to its OS that knackered one of its own products and couldn't be bothered to find that out in the test phase ?"

Not uncommon. To date, I have logged 23 Windows 7 updates that interfere with a Microsoft program I use every day.