back to article Oracle happy to let Apache Foundation adopt NetBeans

The Apache Software Foundation is considering a proposal to take custody of Java development environment NetBeans. The IDE allows development in Java and in other languages and runs operating systems that can fire up a JVM. As the Foundation explains in its proposal, “NetBeans has approximately 1.5 million active users around …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Punting to Apache

    That strategy worked so well with OpenOffice, they're doing it again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Punting to Apache

      OpenOffice was already heavily damaged by Oracle control-freakery (causing all the lead devs to fork to LibreOffice) by the time it was let go.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Punting to Apache

      ... in the sense that Open Office is becoming a Norwegian Blue of Apache projects, while Libre Office (which forked some while ago) is striding ahead.

  2. fedoraman
    Flame

    Worried that anyone is still using Java

    Hmm, spot the language snob? Now if you'd said "Worried that anyone is still using Java browser plugins", then I'd agree.

    Quite a lot of useful software is written in Java, Netbeans being one. Many developers are using it to produce real software that does real work, on time and within budget. The fact that it runs on any OS that will run a JVM helps. Its not great for everything, but then what is? Its security model could be, ahem, improved, I know.

    Oracle's attitude to Java has been giving many people pause for thought, and frowning in a puzzled kind of way. What the Apache Foundation will do with Netbeans is anyone's guess. My hope is that most of the developers and contributors stay on board - I like Netbeans, and I hope that it continues to thrive.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

      "Oracle's attitude to Java..."

      ...is that it will keep saying how important it is to them until the Google case is completely over, then they won't give a damn about it.

    2. wikkity

      Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

      > its security model could be, ahem, improved, I know.

      It's security model for applets could be improved, the rest of the ecosystem is fine. However, it has been improved by being deprecated in the next release.

      Other than that an upvote from me.

    3. Kubla Cant Silver badge

      Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

      So which programming language does the "chief data officer at the University of New South Wales" use in her job? My guess is she's basically a pen-pusher.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

        "So which programming language does the "chief data officer at the University of New South Wales" use in her job? My guess is she's basically a pen-pusher."

        Probably Microsoft Access.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

      Hhmmm.... Does she use a cellphone with a carrier-supplied USIM?

    5. energystar
      Pirate

      Re: Worried that anyone is still using Java

      ...The fact that it runs everywhere makes hardened security -well, hard.

  3. cs94njw

    I loved using NetBeans. It's simple and does the job.

    ....then I graduated to using Eclipse. It's more complex, but more powerful.

    So... er... "meh!".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      cs94njw

      I loved using NetBeans. It's simple and does the job.

      ....then I graduated to using Eclipse. It's more complex, but more powerful.

      So... er... "meh!".

      I loved using NetBeans. It's simple and does the job.

      ....then I tried to use Eclipse. It's excessively complicated, so I stuck with NB and got on with the job.

      So... I raise your "meh!".

      1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

        Intellij

        Go to IntelliJ if you want even more power and ease.

        I am now back to Eclipse for budget reasons (we get 27" 5K macs, but IntelliJ seems to be expensive...).

        Anyway, I am abandoning ship with Java. I am moving to node.js

        Lets see the list of my personal "abandonware":

        Basic in general. Used it in Spectrums and Amstrads.

        Pascal, in particular Turbo Pascal

        TurboC

        Modula

        VHDL

        Tcl

        Delphi

        Visual Basic. Until recently I still did a bit of VBA, mainly for SAP BI templates.

        Perl

        Sadly, Java seems to be next in line.

        Some others that almost nobody knows.

        I would be perfectly happy to keep using a decent and supported version of many of these, but then I would be unployable.

        The FACT that Oracle has all but abandoned Java is sad.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Intellij

          If you're doing server side stuff, have you considered Go?

          It seems to be very well represented for server side (clustering, and scaleout) applications.

      2. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
        Happy

        Netbeans simplicity

        I like the way that a project is free-standing, and defined by a small, visible set of files (aside from the actual source code). It will also build a project in a different file location from where it was originally created (with a modicum of care).

        When you are checking code in, it's vital that only environment-non-specific files, and files that constitute source, get checked in. This is vital when branching a project. When I've looked at Eclipse-based IDEs, the range of files that are needed to define a project seem to be ill-defined, and the chances of making a project portable is very slim.

        Plus the "Workspace" concept in Eclipse/IntelliJ etc is an absolute crock.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Netbeans simplicity

          "Plus the "Workspace" concept in Eclipse/IntelliJ etc is an absolute crock."

          Lots of people have sneered at NetBeans and explained to me the superiority of Eclipse. Perhaps the superiority is why they like to spend so much time fiddling with Eclipse rather than writing working code.

          In general I find it best not to sneer at either tools or programming languages. My only real detest is Access, and that's largely a result of being presented with SQL scripts for review which have been auto-generated by Access. The unnecessary repetition of aliases makes MEGO.

  4. Stretch

    "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

    Idiot.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

      It's got lots of cross platform application, both with and without GUI, outside of Browsers or even "apps" for mobile (Though Android Apps are a sort of fork).

      1. disgruntled yank Silver badge

        Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

        So is it OK to use Java not to be honest? If so, there could be a very large market.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

          "So is it OK to use Java not to be honest?"

          I believe a lot of HST is done in Java as well as C++. So yes.

  5. Anonymous Curd

    A chief data officer worried about anyone still using Java? Cripes.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Are you not with the times? It's jquery both client and server side. Never mind the quality, feel the agile.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Netbeans isn't bad, and it's a hell of a lot better than that crawling horror called Android Studio that I'm shackled to. I'm shocked that something came out of Oracle with an actual usable GUI. I won't even mention the tentacled monster called jDeveloper that I also have to use on a regular basis.

    1. wikkity

      > jDeveloper that I also have to use on a regular basis.

      The only project I have ever worked on where the development leader insisted we use the same IDE he made 15 people use jDeveloper as that is what he used. This was his first and last stint in that role, half way through and 1 month behind schedule the project manager made him revert his decision. We all went back to using what we want. We soon made up time and finished a couple of weeks early. Guess his estimate were based on how long it would take him in jDeveloper.

    2. Kubla Cant Silver badge

      the tentacled monster called jDeveloper

      Uuurrgh! Does that still exist?

  7. DaLo

    "I'm shocked that something came out of Oracle with an actual usable GUI"

    The usable GUI came out of Sun.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

    Amazing how an academic can be so miss informed.

    Heres some points to consider...

    Loads of GIS, Semantic used systems, backend systems use java, including the T/QLA's and academia.

    Not all jvm's are Oracle$

    Javascript is not java, amazingly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

      "Amazing how an academic can be so miss informed" -> Happens all the time, at least in universities. He/she/it prefers language X and therefore anything that is not X is beyond contemplation.

      It is not a question of misinformation, but (in most cases) being unable to learn/use more than one language. Like preferences for soccer teams, I guess -- your preference is better because it is yours :-)

      1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

        Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

        This is an excellent reason to use node.js

        I think javascript is a very broken language, but people tend to be more proficient when just using the same language.

        1. Kubla Cant Silver badge

          Re: "“I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

          This is an excellent reason to use node.js

          This is the second post to suggest node.js as an alternative to Java. It's a category error, and it implies a degree of ignorance: one is a server/platform, the other is a programming language.

        2. Mage Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: "javascript is a very broken language"

          That may or may not be true, however it and node.js are NOTHING to do with Java, a cross platform programming language used in many things nothing to do with Web.

          Javascript and similar are scripts for web browsers. The node.js a 3rd party library, used by websites. Whether it's sensible at all for a website to load functions from a 3rd party website at all is a separate issue, but node.js can't at all replace Java, it's a library implemented mostly in Javascript (which is NOT Java)!

          Node.js is mostly javascript

          "Although Node.js is not a JavaScript framework, many of its basic modules are written in JavaScript, and developers can write new modules in JavaScript."

          Node.js isn't a programming language at all, it's a 3rd party function library!

          We can have a separate arguement about Javascript and Node.js, I'd expect it to be colourful.

  9. Mage Silver badge

    NetBeans

    It can't get worse?

    It's not the same scenario as Open Office, and if it was, well, I've switched from:

    Wordstar + Supercalc (CP/M)

    New word + Cracker (CP/M and MS DOS)

    MS Office (Win 3.1)

    MS Office + Star Office

    MS Office + Open Office

    LibreOffice

  10. energystar
    Linux

    Same error as Open Office

    Same error as Open Office. Apache Licensing is not able to catch individual contributors confidence. Even if open, is a Corporative Licensing.

    1. energystar
      Childcatcher

      Re: Same error as Open Office

      That goes for you also, Microsoft.

  11. Ilsa Loving

    Netbeans must be dead.

    After how badly Oracle has screwed up *every* *single* product that they got from Sun, despite their gesticulations I can only think that Netbeans must also be dead. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be so willing to give it up.

    Oracle won't give up anything that they think they can squeeze another couple of cents out of.

  12. bobajob12

    "I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

    Truth is, all languages have flaws. And bad runtimes make it much worse. Java on the browser is a particularly bad runtime. But re: the quote, you've lost me. Where did this quote come from? What makes Dr Carruthers qualified to speak on this particular issue? (I have no doubt that she is highly qualified, but I fail to see the linkage between her and NetBeans.) What made El Reg contact her and not, say, someone at a major NetBeans customer?

    If Java is so terrible, I respectfully suggest that UNSW clean up its own house: Java is all over the joint. For example:

    - the HPC center at UNSW offers four versions of Java dating back to (!!) v6

    - UNSW offers several Java programming courses, including to the Australian military (ADF). You'd think they would be concerned about security.

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: "I'm worried that anyone is still using java to be honest"

      I can think of worse languages than Java that are rummaging around. Also, several languages compile to Java byte code and use the JVM to execute.

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