back to article Russia MP's son found guilty after stealing 2.9 million US credit cards

The son of a Russian member of parliament has been found guilty of stealing and selling millions of US credit card numbers using point of sales malware. Roman Seleznev, 32, is the son of ultra-nationalist Liberal Democratic Party MP Valery Seleznev. He was arrested in 2014 while attempting to board a plane in the Maldives, …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whatever I might think of this guy's crimes (none of it particularly complimentary), I still have to disapprove of the manner in which he was appended. There was more than a touch of Wild West in it. I might understand something of this kind for a criminal involved in mass murder - but this was a purely commercial crime, with no physical violence involved.

    If I were a US citizen (which I am not), I would also wonder what kind of precedent this and other extraterritorial (apparently in the seleznev's case the secret service never bothered to get a local warrant; they just grabbed the guy) applications of the US law might establish where the US nationals abroad are involved.

    1. Mark 85

      I think we're missing some information. Like "who" did the arresting. If the US knew he was there, then, depending on treaties, the Maldive police could picked him up and and turned him over to the US LEO. I would hope it wasn't the US LEO's who did the arresting which would be a very frightening bit. I would also hope an extradition order was offered to the Maldives.

      However, the article does infer that it was the US that picked him up at the airport. This wouldn't be the first time, but I'm wondering what would happen if another country pulled that crap....

      OTOH, perhaps now that we have him and the Russians are angry... who can we trade him for to make everyone happy?

      1. Harry the Bastard

        re: I'm wondering what would happen if another country pulled that crap....

        presumably they'd carry on regardless...

      2. Danny 14

        Police refused to extradite but would arrest on an interpol red alert ( uploaded on last second so as not to tip the russians off). He was then expelled from the country thus the us took custody.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        According to this article.....

        He was arrested in the Maldives by US Secret Service agents and spirited off to Guam, a US territory.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You mean something like this: ?

      Oh, by the way, she's exactly accused of an illegal seizure.

      US citizens can still be jailed and extradited abroad, when they commit a crime. Even if in the US many people, including wannabe president Ms. Clinton, believe the rest of the world is made of barbarian countries that should not arrest and trial US citizens.

      Anyway robbery is still a crime, and when you steal millions, well, you should be aware you become a good target for polices.

    3. Aodhhan

      Just because his crime isn't violent doesn't mean he/she wouldn't do anything to stay out of jail. There are plenty of times when non-violent offenders have taken hostages when faced with arrest or claim to hold an explosive device. In today's environment, law enforcement around the world isn't taking chances... since they would like to make it home safely every day after work.

    4. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge

      If Russia had Rule of Law

      This would not be an issue. But Russia has never had Rule of Law, and probably won't for a very long time. The kleptocratic nature of Russia is why they've enshrined protection from extradition into their constitution. (Not that Russia respects many of the other parts of their constitution...)

  2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Just one of many?

    I find it hard to believe that we're all safe now - if they caught him then how many others are there out there that are happily flying under the Radar?

    As for the arrest methods - you're being naive if you don't recognize that every country either does this, or would if it got half a chance.

    1. Danny 14

      Re: Just one of many?

      In this case though a red alert interpol notice was used. The burden for a red notice is high, they muat not be political and are refused as kuch as granted. They are issued independently so are not random 'handshakes behind closed doors' affairs. This gives a bit more credence to the guys crimes even in the actual arrest and transportation were grey (a lot of ducks were lined up neatly )

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How good can such evidence be?

    Having known of instances in which data was placed or tampered with to make others look bad, and in a couple cases just for fun, I can't help but question why the evidence of his criminality being used is all circumstantial.

    We have to be very gullible to think that the mere possession of something being illegal isn't going to result in that something being planted. Of course we have a very trusting society that feel governments and authorities always act in our interest, so I guess that isn't a problem for most people.

  4. James Wheeler

    Kidnapping vs international arrest warrant

    If Seleznev had been chloroformed and stuffed in the back of a car, it would have clearly been kidnapping. What happened here is much more of a gray area.

    The Maldives is a member of Interpol. Interpol "Red Notices", informally called international arrest warrants, provided the legal basis for Maldives officials to detain Seleznev at the airport. It's not clear what legal process, if any, took place in Maldives before handing him over to US agents. Nor is it clear what Maldives law requires in such situations in the absence of an extradition treaty.

    The judge in Seleznev's federal trial did not permit his attorneys to argue that his detention and transport was unlawful, so his defense had to use the strategy of casting doubt on the evidence of his cybercrimes. This was ineffective, leading to conviction on nearly all charges.

    I expect that the judge's decision now leaves the door open for Seleznev to appeal his conviction. The story is not over.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kidnapping vs international arrest warrant

      so you are arguing that due process according to the constitution was not followed.

      This should go all the way to the USSC.

      What happens if they refuse to hear it eh?

      This sets an awful lot of precident for the future if they do. It means that because US law covers the entire planet anyone anywhere can be nabbed and 'removed' to US Soil and the local law can do diddly squat about it.

      Almost makes me wish for a great wall to cut the USA off from the civilised world for good.

      1. James Wheeler

        Re: Kidnapping vs international arrest warrant

        @Mr/Ms Coward: Not trying to make a point really, just trying puzzling over the intricacies of international law enforcement in an era when it's possible to commit a crime in country X without ever setting foot in it.

        Any Interpol member nation can use a Red Notice, as I understand it. How this applies in practice is a topic for further study.

        1. Danny 14

          Re: Kidnapping vs international arrest warrant

          Eye witness put him in the departure lounge. His passport would have been stamped exit. This puts things in a gray international law area but certainly easier for Maldives. A red alert notice meant he was fair game for interpol. He was on Maldives soil but in a departure bonded area so not totally their problem. He was 'expelled' and the US took custody of him due to being an internationally recognised criminal. Red notices are not mickey mouse things and are UN ratified, with the US being well within their rights to take custody. As soon as he landed on US soil the red alert custody was then upgraded to US criminal so he could be tried in the US as a US criminal.

          This is certainly contrived as the Maldives needed to be complicit with the timings, but no extradition was involved.

  5. buckyball

    So smart?

    So if this guy is clever enough to engineer this large-scale operation, why did he not encrypt the offending data on his laptop? #pwned-all #now-boned

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge

      Re: buckyball Re: So smart?

      ".....why did he not encrypt the offending data on his laptop?...." It seems he thought that simply staying out of countries with an extradition treaty with the US was enough to ensure his freedom, which gives you an idea of just how corrupt the legal system must be in Russia. With - as he saw it - no chance of arrest, why bother to hide the evidence? Apparently he wasn't too smart over covering his tracks online either, which is why the case was such a slam-dunk when it went to court.

  6. Mahhn

    To bad he was arrested

    I hate supporting criminal housing, but maybe you don't mind.

    Proper Punishments for crime: Training/education, labor/restitution, death.

    Sleeznev: Give his assets to his victims, cut his fingers off or kill him. No prisons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: To bad he was arrested

      And presumably your preferred punishment for jaywalking is knee-capping?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: To bad he was arrested

        An odd conclusion from the original post. Jaywalking would fall under training and fine. No knee-capping required.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The new train spotting?

    I collect card numbers, gotta get them all.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like