Breaking 350 million: What's next for Windows 10? After 12 months of “free” upgrades, it's now business for usual for Microsoft and the hard work begins on trying to shift paid-for Window 10. Microsoft closed the door on free upgrades from Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 on July 29. The Anniversary Update of Windows 10 arrived on August 2. From now on, if you want to …
So basically being more like Google?
No. Google pushes ads at you when you ask it a question, it by and large leaves you alone the rest of the time. MS controls your desktop and so can interrupt you whenever it feels that it won't cause you to hit the screen. You can't get away from it.
OK: watch something long (& popular) on youtube and you will be occasionally interrupted with an ad for something.
"No. Google pushes ads at you when you ask it a question, it by and large leaves you alone the rest of the time. MS controls your desktop and so can interrupt you whenever it feels that it won't cause you to hit the screen. "
1. You're ignoring Chrome, and
2. You're running an Ad Blocker on Youtube so you don't see the constant inundation of advertising.
3. AdWords -- that is Google. Google does advertising on maybe 80% of web pages served up.
Agree, there is a big difference between me searching for suits because I want to buy a suit and Google throwing a few relevant suit ads on top, which is actually helpful or at least not bothersome... and me searching for a file on my OS and Windows 10/Bing asking me if I want to search for something in my file title. That is plenty annoying... not least of which because they are using Bing and not Google. I don't want to search the internet and, if I did, I certainly wouldn't want to do it with Bing.... on the OS that I PAID to use. It is a straight double dip from MSFT. Aside from the inferior tech, that is the annoying part. Yep, we'll be charging for licenses. Yep, we'll also be using this as an ad engine. Yep, our tech, especially search, will be inferior.
Agree... and Google doesn't charge you for software. It is a pretty sweet deal really. Would you rather pay a $120 for this, awesome, software, or would you rather have us show you, generally relevant, ads when you search for stuff? Most will take the ads. If you don't dig it, you can pay them for Google Apps, etc and then there are no ads. They play it pretty straight and don't try to double dip. Give Google some credit for coming up with a business model which is a universal win.
Me neither. Not sure if most of the users commenting here even use Windows 10. I think it's a very good OS, my personal favorite of the big 3 and much better than Windows 8 was.
I've been using it since day 1, and ran the previews too.
There are Ad's, but they're never obtrusive and can be turned off.
-The lock screen can show ads over the login picture, but they're text based, and are only activated with the Spotlight feature that shows a different bing image each day.
-The start menu will suggest apps to install underneath the Most Used section - it'll only show 1 app and doesn't really get in the way.
-Edge's new start page will show occasional ads advertising MS products - just change your home page to something else..
-Cortana uses Bing - until you change your default search engine to Google
No ad's in any apps, except News/Money/Health - where ad's are expected due to the news sources.
People love to beat on MSFT, they always have.
>So basically being more like Google?
Except that Google isn't my OS and only gives me ads when I visit their site. More to the point, Google don't own most of my (Windows) applications so that they can insert adverts.
Time to work on a new FLOSS application to provide managed presence information.
Except that Google gives me ads when I visit 80% of web sites. Google's ad package is used so widely that its search data about me is used when I read blog posts and newspapers. Microsoft aspire to have the same sort of data about me, perhaps even more.
BTW, I use a Flash manager but never an ad blocker. I'm one of the old fashioned types who thinks that advertising is a necessary cost of reading worthwhile content. Publishing firms who include "feature articles" from clickbait operations need to understand that they are seriously devaluing their businesses.
Has anyone written a personal data junk generator? Something that runs invisible-to-me background searches and link followups to innocuous sites about harmless things of which I have no interest? Something that is smart enough to run when internet access doesn't cost me anything?
Google isn't your OS until you use Android or ChromeOS. Using the Chrome browser gives it a deep access to most online activities. Mail and Drive put a lot of your data at its disposal.
But just intercepting almost every search made in the Western world gives it a lot of data about what people do. And Google tracker is active on mots sites, so it tracks you even if you land there from somewhere else.
"Ironic then that MSFT ship AdBlock for Edge browser."
no, because their NEXT 'feature' would allow PAID FOR ADS (i.e. pay up or we don't let your ads get through) to slip past it... (yes, that DOES happen with OTHER ad blockers, doesn't it?)
So not "ironic" - more like sneaky, underhanded, ...
I don't see how MS can go back to paid versions of Windows 10 after the free period. All of the MSFT fans and people remotely interested took advantage of the free OS upgrade, so the low hanging fruit is gone. The rest of the Windows users, not on 10, are people who are indifferent or negative about the new version of Windows. Those people, clearly not really jazzed about Windows 10 in the first place, are not going to dig MS making them pay when others got it for free. I think they will have to continue to give it away or they are going to see a bunch of Chrome/Android PC defections for a free OS. There is just no margin for Windows in PCs when MS is trying to chase Google into the $200-300 PC space. Difficult for an OEM to create a $300 PC and stay afloat when MS is asking for $199 for Windows.
If your business model relies on you being able to sell a fully operational PC for $300...
... how is that Microsoft's problem?
You want to serve the market segment of People With No Money? Good on you, best of luck with that, let us know how it goes. We'll be over here selling PCs for $1000, and we anticipate no shortage of customers at that price point.
I guess they expect to work with the current user base to convince the other ones it's a worthy transition through their testimonies. The reluctance of the early adopters had to be broken somehow. Their continuous feedback made sure the next customers will get a polished OS. They'll upgrade probably together with a new machine.
So the low hanging fruit were harvested. The other ones will follow slowly but surely, while the next [very profitable] harvest awaits to be ripened: corporate customers. Those customers usually wait for a couple of years until an OS matures before plunging in. Their time will come soon. And that's where Microsoft gets its profit.
Don't worry. Microsoft knows how to make money.
> I don't see how ...
No, you don't, but never mind.
> go back to paid versions of Windows 10 after the free period.
I wasn't entirely free. You had to have paid for Windows 7 or 8 previously, and it wasn't free for enterprise.
> Difficult for an OEM to create a $300 PC and stay afloat when MS is asking for $199 for
Windows.
That is easy, MS don't ask OEMs for $199.
More likely they are pricing Windows 10 upgrades artificially high to encourage consumers to buy new computers, on which the OS is likely to be more reliable and stable. It's even more difficult for an OEM to stay afloat NOT offering Windows since it would mean offering a computer that can't run most desktop software.
"Everyone knows Windows isn't worth $199 anymore. By giving it away they've permanently devalued windows as a brand, and it will be perceived according to loss-leader economics."
They gave it for free to select non-enterprise users with Windows 7 onwards for a limited time. Windows 8 was available for Windows 7 users for $15 for a limited time. Before that Windows 7 had a limited time discount offer for Vista/XP.
I can't get a free Windows 10 license for a blank computer. It is still not a free licence. It requirer an underlying Windows7/8 licence which was paid in some form (e.g. part of cost of computer)
Windows is actually last to the free OS party on desktop. OS X has been free for years, so is ChromeOS, Android, IOS, Linux etc. Did OS X lose value when Apple started to give it for free?
Windows is actually last to the free OS party on desktop. OS X has been free for years, so is ChromeOS, Android, IOS, Linux etc. Did OS X lose value when Apple started to give it for free?
OS X is free? Care to point me to a download site so I can install it on my hackintosh?
"OS X is free? Care to point me to a download site so I can install it on my hackintosh?"
Yes, OS X is free. The license says that you're supposed to install it on Apple hardware. Installing on non-Apple hardware is not supported. Anyone who has a Mac which can run OS X 10.6.8 or later has the Mac App Store app; launch it, find the installer for the latest version of the OS (usually right on the front page) and download said installer. It will usually autolaunch and request permission to install; if you give it permission, when its done it will delete itself. If you want to keep a copy, quit the installer, copy it to somewhere else (the installer usually is installed into the Applications folder so that you can find it easily) and then you can have an installer you can use later. Or on another machine. Even a hackintosh. And you can create USB install media, so you can stick the installer on a USB stick and install on anything which has acceptable hardware, including a hackintosh.
And, finally, every ever so often Apple releases a stand-alone installer. The latest is for OS X 10.11.4 and is available at https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1869?locale=en_US
But you could have found this for yourself by actually going to Apple's site and typing 'download OS' into the search box.
Is that supposed to be a joke ?
For an entire year, we were continually bashed over the head with how Windows 1 0 was free, how much faster it was, how much better it was, and how free it was. We were repeatedly told that existing kit would run better on it. Oh, and it was FREE.
Next to the marketing, MS tried absolutely everything to push it out whether you wanted it or not, including malware tactics.
With all of that, what should have happened is MS touting the fastest-ever adoption of a new OS version, and the almost-total conversion of all Windows PCs in existence.
Instead, it barely made a quarter of the market, and you're saying that is "especially well" ?
I hope you enjoy your check.
Windows 8.1 is Windows 9. Joke's on you if you missed it, it was the last "good" Windows release.
Really. If the 'Metro' thing annoys you too much, install Classic Start Menu. Then you'll have the speed and security of Windows 10, the control and customisability of Windows 7, and extended support to January 2023.
TBH, the suggestion that "Windows 10 did especially well" is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the nonsense in that article. I'm not entirely sure when the author is speculating on the future or talking about the past - he seems to switch tense in random places.
While the overall piece seems to be trying to speculate on how Microsoft can sell the OS - either on its own or via OEMs on new hardware - it almost entirely fails to address the issues that lead many of us to be "upgrade hold-outs".
Microsoft's pushiness gets only a brief mention, and there's no mention at all of the telemetry. Any problem with failed downgrades to Windows 10 - of which there have been plenty - appears to be blamed on the users owning "old PCs".
But hey, us hold-outs (and no mention of those who finally took the step over to Linux) apparently have short memories - because we're going to so easily forget the upgrade hell Microsoft inflicted on us.
Yeah, right.
And I've finally realised the real reason for the jump from 8 to 10, skipping a 9. We've come to expect a bad-good-bad-good cycle with Windows versions. 8 was bad, so we expected the next version to be good - Microsoft knew otherwise, so they deliberately jumped the version number up by one to give us a heads up.
<pedant mode>
I believe the real reason for skipping 9 was because of badly written software which checked to see if was running on an appropriately advanced Windows by refusing to run on anything that reported as Windows 9* (matching Windows 95 and Windows 98 - and which, unfortunately, would also have matched Windows 9).
Apple didn't think of this when it released Mac OS X 10.10 - and one or two programs broke because 10.1 (the mathematically correct interpretation of 10.10) < 10.6 or whatever they were developed to run on.
</pedant mode>
Apple didn't think of this when it released Mac OS X 10.10 - and one or two programs broke because 10.1 (the mathematically correct interpretation of 10.10) < 10.6 or whatever they were developed to run on.
I would argue that Apple probably *did* think of it..... They just didn't care. Apple has a long and cherished history of not giving a fig about developers, sometimes making fundamental changes to the underlying OS, and leaving it up to the developers to catch up or GTFO.
There is plenty of software for example, that used to run fine in 10.6 but no longer runs on the most recent versions of OSX because Apple made some changes, and the developers basically shrugged their shoulders and left their users out to dry because it's not worth it to them to update.
Thumbs down, both for Apple and for said developers.
i can think of a lot of software which worked in OS x 10.8 and died on impact with 10.9. The vast majority of it was software which went out over the network, including email, ftp, and usenet systems, and all of them used a technology named 'Open Transport'. Apple had 'depreciated' Open Transport when the very first OS X versions hit the street. Developers had been on notice for years, since OS X 10.4 in 2004 or so, that it was going to go sometime. Not only did they not migrate to APIs which were going to be supported, some rolled out new versions of their software, using the old APIs, a few months prior to 10.9 hitting the streets. Others simply hadn't updated their stuff for years. When 10.9 hit, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth... tough. It had been marked as being doomed years before, and the devs had not paid attention. Open Transport had been around since 1995. It was visibly growing moss.
In the case of 10.6, a lot of the dead software depended on having the old Motorola 68000 APIs around, and some depended on PPC APIs. By the time 10.6 arrived, there hadn't been new 68000 Macs for well over a decade, and there hadn't been new PPC Macs for several years. And Apple had told everyone who was listening that the old stuff was doomed. The only thing they didn't say was when. Turned out it was 2009. That would be three years after Apple started shipping Intel Macs. Devs had three years to move on. Whose fault is it that they didn't, again?
I personally have an old eMac sitting around just so that I can play a very old game (Harpoon; I love sending in regimental Backfire strikes against imperialist carrier battle groups or flushing all the Shipwrecks, including the nukes, from an Oscar at very close range to a Yankee carrier... Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye! Nothing like 54 to 81 Kingfish or 24 Shipwrecks to ruin an imperialist admiral's whole day! The Glorious Red Banner Northern Fleet owns the Atlantic!) and I'd just love to be able to play it on modern equipment, but the vendor's dead and it will never be updated.
"the Japanese don't like the way Nine sounds cos it's similar to their word for torture or suffering."
9 = 'kyuu' - which can imply 'sudden' if I read the japanese/english dictionary correctly. I'm not an expert, but I know THAT much at least. (granted, the Japanese language has a LOT of homonyms in it, which is I think why they still use Kanji for writing, because it disambiguates things well).
Another rumor I heard is that '9' sounds like 'Nein' in German, which of course means "no". (ironically 'no' in japanese is 'iie' which sometimes sounds like "Ja" which means 'yes' in German).
The most likely skip of '9' is that '10' implies "completion" from a numerological standpoint, primarily because "count to 10" and we have '10 fingers' and other things LIKE that which are common to the human experience. So MS used the TAROT for their inspiration for "10" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
No, seriously, the Windows '9x explanation is PROBABLY the best one. To avoid confusion with past, SUCCESSFUL versions of Windows, of course, since Win-10-nic is a PURE ABORTION when it comes to everything in it.
It was a faster adoption rate than Windows 7, so yes, "especially well." My father works in IT for newspapers. He says corporations are notoriously slow about upgrading to new OSs and will cling to outdated tech for years. A lot of his time is spent servicing software designed for XP, because the clients won't stop clinging to it even though Microsoft stopped supporting it two years ago. Sooner or later all those old boxes running XP will die and you will see much higher Windows 10 adoption rates.
Given that many potential customers are on XP, Vista or 7 - versions of Windows with a very different user experience to 10, and given that many are only interested in simple office task or Internet browsing (the tools for which are available for free), I wonder how many will upgrade to Windows 10.
Perhaps many, faced with learning a 'new' OS will choose ChromeOS, Linux (probably Mint or Ubuntu), MacOS - or even a tablet with Android or iOS instead. After all, if you have to pay and learn something new anyway, why not switch too?
Dream on. Those kinds of users will keeping buying what they always have, Windows, because it's the easiest thing to find and still has the same basic "grammar" they have been used to from previous versions of Windows. Tablets and smartphones have their place but they are not suited to many tasks PCS are used for.
Windows 10 Home is £85
Windows 10 Pro OEM is £125 (easy enough to qualify for OEM licence)
New cheapo PC with Windows 10 from £200
That said, if MS are going down the advertising route, can't be long until Windows Home is free, just charging for Pro/Enterprise where the device management is more important that £100.
Gates called Linux pacman
Monkeyboy called Linux a cancer
Here we have a PROFESSIONAL OS with Candy Crush and X-Box on the start menu. These cannot be easily removed and keep on coming back like a cancer.
I just got some HP boxes for a company and the extra cost, compared to no OS, for Win 10 Professional was ~ £80 each. The DVDs had no HP bloatware!
There are some good things about Windows 10, but the lack of choice / control and the telemetry spoil it.
Fortunately I don't use it.
"Here we have a PROFESSIONAL OS with Candy Crush and X-Box on the start menu. These cannot be easily removed and keep on coming back like a cancer."
Erm... I right clicked on them and selected unpin and they went and never came back. Easily removed and didn't come back. Come on now.... did you actually have this problem or are you simply regurgitating something you read elsewhere?.. be honest now...
"@TimmyB - broadly speaking wrong on all three counts"
Are you saying the most commonly used application software works as well on Linux as it does on Windows? Are you saying that most commonly purchased hardware suppliers create Linux drivers? Seriously? And yes - the Windows experience is better. Give me an example of day to day usage where it isn't.
I've been trying to get hibernate to work with windows for weeks now. Ms is giving *no* support at all, nlames the hw vendor. Hw vendor blames ms. All support i can find is crummy internet pages (with and without microsoft in the url), where 'community support' means people repeat the same out-of-context crap just yo score points. And in linux, it just works.
So yeah, i love the windows experience and the first-grade support you get when using ms windows!
Hstubbe: "I've been trying to get hibernate to work with windows for weeks now. Ms is giving *no* support at all, nlames the hw vendor. Hw vendor blames ms."
I've lost count of the number of MS support threads I've seen marked "Resolved" by the administrator - but which have continued to accumulate pages of comments, sometimes for years, from users who say the MS fix hasn't worked. In many cases, the recommended fix boils down to some generic boilerplate, like "reinstall Windows," or "try turning your computer off and then on again."
Linux jumps that low bar without breaking a sweat.
> Windows experience is better. Give me an example of day to day usage where it isn't.
Updates, including requirements to reboot.
Malware.
Anti-virus grinding away your response times.
One of the main annoyances that I had when I did have to use Windows was the inability to view files that were open and being written to, such as log files, or v.v. where the write failed because I was viewing the file. I neither know nor care whether that still happens because it is all gone for me.
Record locks being left when the program terminates unexpectedly. Perhaps they fixed that.
Most music software I use comes in two flavours - Win and iOS. I don't want to be locked into Apple's walled garden so I opt for the Win versions. I could try Linux but running some software in WINE creates unacceptable latency. So I'm using Win10 on all my kit. And I'm finding it pleasant to use.
@Timmy B
Unpinning does not remove the offending software of the computer.
Right click uninstall ... sometime later on the 'recently installed' list there it is again.
Use the command line it seems to stay away (this is not easy for general users), though I have not seen the sp1 update.
Be honest Timmy boy can you unpin from all apps XBOX ?
Are you simply regurgitating your Slurp script? ... be honest now.
"I right clicked on them and selected unpin and they went and never came back."
wait until the next major update, after the hours' long download of gigabytes of cruft, the 'machine not available' stall in your othewise productive (limited by Win-10-nic's inherent anti-productivity features, of course) day, and the re-re-re-resetting of your (limited) customizations, on MICRO-SHAFT's SCHEDULE, not YOURS, so that it MAXIMIZES the effect of PUNISHING you for NOT choosing THEIR DEFAULTS, at a time and place of THEIR choosing.
That's Win-10-nic for you, no longer YOUR SERVANT, but YOUR MASTER. It's like a robot revolution! Except, of course, it's MICRO-SHAFT doing it, not the computer themselves...
Given the almost impossibility of buying a laptop without paying the Windows Tax only to replace it with Linux - I'm hoping some miscalculations on inventory means there are dealers with unsold 8.1 systems that have now been further devalued by the cessation of the (dubious) Win10 escape route.
Will they be willing to forgive the WinTax with more exciting firesale prices?
"Will they be willing to forgive the WinTax with more exciting firesale prices?"
perhaps some anti-trust investigations need to look more carefully into that 'WinTax' thing...
or the OEMs can "eat the cost" of the WinTax and ship with Linux so they'll sell... who knows, I'm at least HOPING for some sense to be restored to the market!
Just bought a new PC and got it with Windows 10 ( on the basis that I'd be forced to update anyway at some point). It seems to run OK (albeit on an i5 machine with 16GB and SSD), but the user experience of Windows 10 is a complete muddle - a bit of Win 7 there, a tablet like feel here overlaid with gratuitous Ads.
And to think I paid money for this! Still, the first thing I did was to allocate space for a second partition for Linux - time to take the plunge I think.
"gratuitous Ads"... I keep hearing this but on 6 PCs at home and several here at the office on 10 I barely see any ads beyond the suggested app in the start menu. That's hardly gratuitous now and two clicks and that's are gone forever. Got any example of these "gratuitous Ads"?
This post has been deleted by its author
The acceptable amount of ads in an OS is ABSO-FUCKING-LUTLY none whatsoever.
This is dead on. But I'd like to add... no telemetry to "personalize my experience". No apps/programs that I can't remove permanently. No borking of the computer because of an "update". I want it just work quietly in the background so I can do my work....
"..."gratuitous Ads"... I keep hearing this but on 6 PCs at home and several here at the office on 10 I barely see any ads beyond the suggested app in the start menu..."
Hmm. Not sure if it's because my laptop shipped with Pro but I don't see any ads.
I did turn off as much telemetry as possible and I did turn off Cortana, but no idea if this affects things.
Horses for courses I guess. I'm only really an occasional user on my laptop these days and I do sometimes use it for gaming and as it has a DX12 card in it, I can use this feature which isn't available on any other OS.
TonyJ: " I do sometimes use it for gaming and as it has a DX12 card in it, I can use this feature which isn't available on any other OS."
After a full year of availability, there isn't even a handful of major game releases for DX12. I've yet to run into any game, major or indie, that I can't play just fine on Windows 7. I'm also playing more and more games on Linux, courtesy of Steam.
So what use are you actually getting from this "feature" of Windows 10, that "isn't available in any other OS"?
@John Miles 1 Re: "Just bought a new PC and got it with Windows 10 ( on the basis that I'd be forced to update anyway at some point). It seems to run OK..."
Well, firstly it is highly unlikely that that new PC you got didn't come with Win10 Anniversary Edition, so you can expect it to update in the coming days/weeks to what is effectively a new OS carrying the win10 branding...
Which raises an important question. Given the number of PC's with a pre-anniversary edition of Win10 installed, there is a strong likelihood that many people will be returning machines because the auto update to Anniversary edition borked the machine. I can't see retailers and OEM's being happy to foot the bill for this, unless MS starts paying them...
But if you sell the machine a few years later with a working supported Windows installation after removing Grub and whichever Linux distro you've opted for it will sell quicker, easier and be worth more than a machine purchased from some company who sells bare machines with no OS.
It seems every iteration is moving W10 a little further towards becoming a toxic brand. At some point H/W manufacturers may either move to Chromebooks or the like or get together to fund development of an alternative OS, maybe based on Linux, BSD or possibly ReactOS which they can control.
"At some point H/W manufacturers may either move to Chromebooks or the like or get together to fund development of an alternative OS, maybe based on Linux, BSD or possibly ReactOS which they can control."
I've been hoping for this for YEARS, and netbooks had a shot at this [too bad they were way too tiny and underpowered to make any usability sense for most people]. The downside is that it would take a significant MARKETING EFFORT to put all of the necessary pieces together.
1. Improve user-perception of Linux so they know that it does everything their windows boxen do [basically going against Micro-shaft's FUD campaign over the last 15+ years]
2. Get major software vendors on-board to make Linux versions [or convince people to use the open source versions, like Libre Office vs Micro-shaft Office]
3. Eliminate any 'WinTax' effects and allow vendors to DISCOUNT Linux boxen accordingly, competing directly with Win-10-nic on new boxen, minus the OEM license cost. This may require politicians be confronted [with clue-bats?] to change anti-trust legislation and/or investigate Micro-shaft's 'WinTax' under anti-racketeering laws.
That would be a good start...
@Bombastic Bob - I see Chromebooks being readily available in the US so Linux can be sold with some good marketing. Also, with Android being ubiquitous users are using a Linux derivative. Linux in a couple forms is very popular as is BSD. The number reports about Winbloat borking systems is making users warm up to the idea of something else.
OEMs are first loyal to themselves not Slurp and the fact many are testing the waters with Chromebooks and in few cases Linux preinstalled (Dell for one) means they think they can make money without 'bloat.
Doctor Syntax: "At some point H/W manufacturers may either move to Chromebooks or the like or get together to fund development of an alternative OS, maybe based on Linux, BSD or possibly ReactOS which they can control."
I've tried Chrome, and it probably has its place. But I think Android N may be an even stronger contender. I'm sure there's a reason Google has been adding desktop features like windowing and mouse support. Many consumers would probably like the idea of running the same OS - and apps - on their desktop as they do on their phone or tablet.
This is probably the 'nightmare scenario' that Microsoft tried to forestall with its awkward Continuum feature. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier for Google to make Android run comfortably on generic PC hardware, than for Microsoft to make Windows run on its own smartphone hardware. Still worse (for MS), Google can bring along its entire base of existing Android apps, while Microsoft could only make the stunt work for a tiny number of new-fangled UWP apps.
Likely future: for casual users, Windows Home gives way to Android N; for power users, Windows Pro is replaced by GNU/Linux. PC games shift to SteamOS, and the console world remains divided, with Steam Machines making gradual inroads as the economics of the open, generic PC architecture erode the cost advantage of proprietary games boxes.
"Many consumers would probably like the idea of running the same OS - and apps - on their desktop as they do on their phone or tablet." And yet, when Android fanboys hear it is possible to do just that with Windows 10, they claim no one would ever want that.
"Unfortunately, it's a lot easier for Google to make Android run comfortably on generic PC hardware, than for Microsoft to make Windows run on its own smartphone hardware." The difference being that Microsoft has already done this with Continuum and Android isn't even trying. You're also ignoring Microsoft's vast ecosystem of Windows 32 apps (the reason people buy a PC, after all) and backwards compatibility, the main reason Windows has faced down every would-be challenger for 26 years.
"Likely future: for casual users, Windows Home gives way to Android N; for power users, Windows Pro is replaced by GNU/Linux. PC games shift to SteamOS, and the console world remains divided, with Steam Machines making gradual inroads as the economics of the open, generic PC architecture erode the cost advantage of proprietary games boxes." Likely future: the world continues to run on Windows. Continuum develops to the point that it can multitask and do everything desktop Windows does, consumers realize they only need one device (not three), and Android bites the dust.
Microsoft's problem is that they forgot what they were selling. They can't see past the gravy of their stockholders and advertising revenue and have forgotten about the meat and potatoes underneath...that is that a large bunch of fairly happy users -the people buying the equipment- are required to make the whole thing work.
The "new corporate strategy" of fuck absolutely everything that isn't about our profit and convenience would maybe work for other products; but an operating system is different because there's a degree of trust required. Not to mention that -by physically inserting themselves between users and their business of using computers to do whatever it is they want to do there's an almost infinite amount of things that can go wrong (which Microsoft seem already to be exploring). I deal with other people's passwords, so even if I wanted to drink the kool-aid (I don't), it would be legally and morally wrong for me to knowingly install a surveillance device on the kit that I use for work...data protection laws if nothing else.
And the elephant in the room...even if you (hah!) believe that Microsoft are using the data ethically, and selling only to hand-picked advertisers; what happens when they are inevitably hacked?
... but it could be a double edged sword.
MS could for example make the next Office running on Windows 10 only. People on the Office 365 subscription could be forced to upgrade (this is another issue with the subscription model)
But it could be a risky move, because it could make people look for alternatives to be strangled into a system where MS dictates upgrades, not the users.
~ Well done M$ execs you got the low hanging fruit. But now you're going to find it rough going.
~ Win98R2 / XP / Win7 had merits. But Win-10 = Trusted-Computing + behavioral slurping.
~ PC market struggling? Then offer some alternatives to windows: HP / DELL / Lenovo / Alienware / Asus / Acer etc. They exist you know!
~ Overall why are Italy and France the only countries forcing M$ to refund customers? This perpetual bundling game is a con, its time for it to die!
That 350 million figure is still being bandied about. I seem to remember the lead up to a recent event where that figure was somewhat discredited...
...and it might just be that MS's figure isn't entirely above board either. AIUI, 350 million is for downloads/installs to all device types. So it's not just for PCs (although the vast majority of that figure will be, as the Surfaces and Phones probably don't amount to much).
Also, we don't know if that 350 million includes downloads/installs that have been rolled back, or for which PCs people who upgraded decided to wipe it out and start again with something else.
So basically, we don't know what the true active user base of Windows 10 is. I don't think MS do either. But I'm pretty sure it's a fair bit less than 350 million.
Recent NetMarketshare.com stats, based on what's actually being used online:
* Windows 10 = 19%
* Windows 8.x = 10.5%
* Windows XP = 10%
* Windows 7 = 49%
The Windows XP segment isn't going to shrink very quickly. It clearly consists of users (or applications) that are happy as they are.
Windows 7 still has more (active) users than all other versions combined. These people have relatively new PCs, but didn't want Windows 10 when it was free. They're now going to make a shift only when a new PC purchase can't be postponed any longer - and even then, are likely to reinstall Win7, or jump to Linux.
The Windows 8 holdouts are even more interesting. If Windows 10 couldn't woo them, what will?
Hitting almost 20% in one year is pretty good going for Windows 10, but it's hard to paint it as a resounding victory.
" Windows XP = 10%...The Windows XP segment isn't going to shrink very quickly. It clearly consists of users (or applications) that are happy as they are."
As this is online usage the real XP share might be higher than that as it will include boxes that are tied to specialist H/W that never even provided W7 drivers but never go online.
@Doctor Syntax:
I can confirm that.
1-98, 1-CE, 3-XP. All tied to industrial machines that will never move beyond that spec. All the rest are either on customised Linux or run proprietary software.
None are online. I could imagine the boss' face when I had to tell him that a $500,000 machine was down because it got an update/virus and wouldn't boot. Hard to get anything unplanned through RS232.
The Windows XP segment isn't going to shrink very quickly. It clearly consists of users (or applications) that are happy as they are.
They are clearly going to have to disconnect from the Internet to stay happy.
Fortunately, there are no device drivers for the Wifi interface in my XP laptop
Apple is in the business of selling computers. If you're a hardware vendor maybe look at what they do.
But unlike Apple, MS is insisting that you can't sell minimally powered soon-to-be-obsolete new machines labeled for the current operating system.
No, MS is not in the business of selling your computers for you. Neither is Linux.
MS has a split interest in appealing to vendors, but also protecting its customers.
And since it makes much more revenue from customers (for software and training) than vendors that split is not even. MS is watching out more for customers than for vendors.
Yes, Windows 10 Anniversary Update boosted the requirements for a Windows logo sticker on NEW machines. This is to ensure that newly purchased machines don't go obsolete too quickly.
NO, Windows 10 Anniversary Update does not require any additional resources from existing machines.
In addition, there have been very few desktops and laptops sold in the past 5 years with less than 4 GB, so I don't know what inspired the following strange statement:
"Windows 10 Anniversary Update – which we recently revealed has been freezing computers – puts more pressure on the hardware, demanding at least 2GB of memory, so only those running really recent machines with Windows 7 and 8.1 will realistically be able to start running the Anniversary Update"
I suspect that the freezing computers are often occurring because neither MS nor users nor admins are checking their antivirus is compatible with the Anniversary Update.
That is a mistake I made.
In my case my issues were solved by uninstalling and reinstalling my Kaspersky Total Security.
Let us have more honesty and less hype. Let us have people doing their own jobs and not expecting other people to do their jobs for them.
Windows 10 will run on phones for gosh sakes, so it certainly runs on first generation 2 GB Core i3 laptop systems, provided they don't have exotic peripherals or software.
Of course it helps a great deal if the person doing the update knows to check for AV, video, sound, network and printer compatibility before doing the update. Home users have a bit of an excuse since they can't be expected to know that -- home users can legitimately complain that MS should be doing that for them. But an IT professional lacking that knowledge? It points to a failure in hiring and training.
It's a pretty typical Gavin Clarke article, tbh. It's riddled with factual inaccuracies, and it's laid out in a series of 1-sentence paragraphs, causing it to read like a powerpoint slide (or someone's lecture notes). It contradicts itself repeatedly, then states the blindingly obvious. Finally, it comes to no conclusions whatsoever, all the while basking in the pretense of it's own profundity. The net effect is that it reads like it was written by a 3rd grader from the shallow end of the talent pool.
Added to this awful command of the written language is the fact that Gavin shows no real evidence of knowing or understanding anything about computers beyond what you can pick up from one of those 'I'm a Mac' adverts in the mid-2000s. Almost every PC in the last decade has shipped with 4GB of RAM or more, and most modern machines have at least 8GB. Windows 10 in-place upgrade failures weren't commonplace, and it ran comfortably on any hardware that could cope with 7 or 8. I very much doubt Gav has ever installed Windows on anything, or even used it much, for that matter; I'd be surprised if he has owned any hardware that doesn't have an apple sticker on it since 2005 (and that 1-sentence-paragraph style just screams 'written on my iPad').
In sum, it's badly written, badly argued, and badly researched. What passes for it's opinion is rendered meaningless by the author's weak grasp of the subject matter, like a cab driver outlining his plan for root-and-branch reform of the Eurozone. As with almost every one of Gav's articles, I'm left wondering why a man who knows almost nothing about IT and writes with the fluency of a man translating a VCR manual from Japanese into Welsh has a job as a tech journalist.
In sum, it's badly written, badly argued, and badly researched.
Can't really argue with that. From the article:
Shot memory and dated processors in your gear meant you were unlikely to get Win 10 running on that old PC.
Sounds good but I wonder what "shot memory" is supposed to be? The baseline for Windows 10 is supposed to be any PC that was supplied with Windows 7. There might be a higher minimum on the memory but the processor shouldn't really matter much because Windows 10 is supposed to contain lots of improvements over Windows 7, which itself digested a lot of the Vista bloat (XML for a GUI, WTF!)
I wonder how many of those 350 million include the many VMs that downloaded, because download by default, Windows 10 but never installed or even could install it? For a year all new consumer PCs came with Windows 10, some of which allowed you to "downgrade" to Windows 7 and they still only got 350 million downloads for a "free" OS upgrade.
The thing is that Windows 7 is a pretty good OS, as long as you don't want the command line (Powershell fans excepted). If only MS had used that as the baselines for a subscription based OS, as they have with Office. Yes, there'd be howls of protest from a few, but I'm sure most would have happily played along. Apple had already done the groundbreaking with free, annual OS releases which selectively disable older hardware.
> Windows 10 will run on phones for gosh sakes,
A _subset_ of Windows 10 will run on _some_ phones. There are many things in desktop Windows 10 that are not part of 'W10M' (nor of 'W10IOT'). The desktop for a start, most of the device support for PCs, most drivers, and most of the guts of the kernel.
It says nothing about what the full W10 requires.
I recently got a new PC because of the cost of upgrading which I had to do anyway (nothing to do with the OS). To be honest, apart from a minor learning curve from the move to Win 10 from Win 7 I haven't had any problems.
It runs faster (of course this needs a pinch of salt when comparing to a 6 year old Win 7 box with loads of crap installed and then removed again over the years), is easier (for me) to navigate settings and so on and the only time I get intrusive adverts is if I want to play Solitaire or Mahjong - although it does get annoying when you have an advert for something already installed.
I can't speak for up-graders but I have no problems on a new machine. The only exception would be the privacy settings, but then I have that locked down. Wouldn't be so easy for a basic word processor / web surfer, but many of them just click yes whatever you put on the screen.
*** I have my flame proof, troll blanking outfit on in preparation for replies
For a year all new machines have come with Windows 10 and I think most people would agree with you, though a sizeable minority may well have opted to "downgrade" to Windows 7. But, the market for PCs is in a possibly fatal decline.
The problems are with the more or less force-feeding of Windows 10 onto people who didn't really want it. This combined the "who moved my cheese" problem of GUI changes with compatibility problems in a way that was entirely avoidable and has definitely tarnished the brand. Lots of work for Microsoft to do to rebuild that brand and get the other 700 or 800 million machines onto the new OS.
I expect that MS will shift to making money the way money is made off of Linux.
An increasing portion of the revenue will business clients paying for training, support and additions to the operating system.
It will also make an increasing portion of its revenue from cloud services.
Apple, Adobe, Sun (and Java), Mozilla, they all make money advertising other people's products, and MS does too.
But I don't see MS going down the path that Google did and becoming primarily an advertising company.
For one thing, MS is widely used in governments, businesses, classrooms and they'd loose that business if they tried pushing ads in the volume Google does.
So the question is where the new Windows 10 growth will come from.
The answer is obviously from the sale of new PCs, to the tune of around 250 million each year, even now (65 million were sold in Q1 2016).
Regarding the reason people did not upgrade, it has nothing to do with neckbeard worries. Regular people are simply scared of an upgrade breaking something and having to learn new things. When they buy a new PC they will not have a choice.
So it's safe to say in a year's time there will be more than half a billion Windows 10 PCs with Redstone 2. There is no mystery or challenge.
"Regular people are simply scared of an upgrade breaking something and having to learn new things. When they buy a new PC they will not have a choice."
you actually SAID that? what a LOW opinion of other humans you must have! We are NOT in an 'idiocracy', yet...
(careful, your arrogance and snobbery are showing)
Aside from the snooty-snob "we *FEEL* we know better than YOU" types at Micro-shaft MAKING! THE! OPERATING! SYSTEM! "that way", we also have SAME-MINDED SYCOPHANTIC FAN-BOIS parroting the SAME! KINDS! OF! ARROGANCE! about "regular people".
And _THAT_ is the point: Micro-shaft is NO longer "have it YOUR way" customer service oriented. They are "CONTROL THE MASSES" oriented. ONLY the *MOST* ARROGANT! of people would even *DARE* to *CONSIDER* doing this kind of thing, and "The Borg" Micro-shaft wants to ASSIMILATE YOU into doing EVERYTHING *THEIR* way so they can LOCK! YOU! IN! forever, and ADVERT! you, and SPY! ON! you, and MONETIZE! you in *EVERY* possible way.
I think 'regular people' are growing *VERY* tired of LOTS of things *KINDS* of things right now... and won't tolerate this much longer.
" Regular people are simply scared of an upgrade breaking something..."
And when those upgrades have gained a reputation of doing that, quite rightly so.
"... and having to learn new things."
Experience with smartphones and Chromebooks indicates that that's not the case.
"When they buy a new PC they will not have a choice."
That depends on the H/W vendors. If they decide that Windows has become a toxic brand they'll offer a choice.
" When they buy a new PC they will not have a choice."
Sure they will.
1 reformat and install the Linux distro of their choice. Or, if they're up to additional work, BSD,
2 buy a Mac in the first place. Apple doesn't give a damn what OS you run. Install a Linux distro, install BSD, even install Windows, Apple doesn't care. They won't support you if you don't have an Apple OS running, but they don't care what you have running. They'll even provide Windows and (some) Linux drivers for you. Then you're on your own.
"1 reformat and install the Linux distro of their choice. Or, if they're up to additional work, BSD." Just how I, as an average computer user who spends most of his time in MS Office and a web browser, want to spent a Sunday afternoon.
"2 buy a Mac in the first place. Apple doesn't give a damn what OS you run. Install a Linux distro, install BSD, even install Windows, Apple doesn't care. They won't support you if you don't have an Apple OS running, but they don't care what you have running. They'll even provide Windows and (some) Linux drivers for you. Then you're on your own." Apple may believe this is a selling point, and perhaps for a small portion of people in graphic design who need software that is only available on Mac and software that is only available on Windows, it is. For the average user, who wants to spent $200-$800 on a computer, not so much.
I'm amazed how out of touch techie people often are with the average computer user and consumer.
"1 reformat and install the Linux distro of their choice. Or, if they're up to additional work, BSD." Just how I, as an average computer user who spends most of his time in MS Office and a web browser, want to spent a Sunday afternoon.
The average Linux install takes me about 40 mins - on a clapped out old Core 2. BSD can be installed in under 20 mins in most cases.
The problem with BSD is more the learning curve to admin it. However, admin is also the main problem with Linux. Joe User cannot do the admin role. But he can't do it for Windows either.
In reality, some other family member does it, and, increasingly, there are family members who realise it is far easier to admin someone else's Linux machine than someone else's Windows machine. Massively easier.
In the end, that will be what kills Windows.
"Regular people are simply scared of an upgrade breaking something and having to learn new things. When they buy a new PC they will not have a choice."
No choice but to accept having to learn about broken software?
What a bleak, dystopian future you envision.
Speaking as a "regular person" (well, I'm not an IT guy at any rate) I'll thank you to not push that nightmare on me. I prefer my software to do it's damned job. That's it's entire point of being, doing things for me that I want it to. It does not exist to serve a corporation or a government. It exists to serve ME.
Hence my reluctance to join the Win10 march of regress. It seems to want to serve Microsoft's shareholders, the Candy-Crush guys and possibly the NSA, I am none of those things and as such do not need that software.
(okay, so all MS software can be expected to serve the shareholders... but it used to stop at the purchase price, now it seems to involve data harvesting and paid solitaire.)
So, the knowledge that Windows update X will crash your system but as a regular user you will have no way to prevent your Windows environment from upgrading. Such a wonderful Windows experience, I think everyone should experience this at least once. The perfect remedy for not wanting to stay on Windows 7 :)
I upgraded (as opposed to clean installed) W10 on a number of systems (using a clone of the original drive before refitting the original drive).
Two of these systems were a Core 2 Duo and a Core 2 Quad which originally came with Vista 32 bit. Both run W8.1 64 bit with no apparent problem and upgraded and ran just fine. So unless the Anniversary update has some seriously bloated new features I wouldn't expect any problems.
Not that I intend to run W10 on any of my systems any time soon (if ever).
I have no idea what the author was chuntering on about.
I'm running an old chuck out Core 2 HP (3GHz 2GB)
I installed windows 7 with a factory disk and the performance was poor. After the upgrade to Windows 10 the performance was far better, good enough to be my main machine. After the anniversary upgrade, I wasn't happy with the performance and did a re-install on a new HD. I also installed Linux Mint (Sarah, Mate, 64). I have found Mint somewhat smoother and a nicer OS. I hardly ever boot to 10 any more.
I have compared the previous version of Mint with (original) Windows 10 on the same laptop and found little difference in usability. Windows 10 being marginally better, (but not worth paying for, it's not eligible for a free upgrade.) However the latest Mint is noticeably slicker, while 10 has gone backwards.
I can see no reason for anyone who doesn't need to run Windows specific software to buy a new windows computer. Especially since a typical £150 Windows 10 laptop is nowhere near the spec of a decent spec XP machine.
What happens if you update a 1 GB PC running Windows 10? Does it refuse the update, or does it take it and just run really slowly? Makes the "free" upgrade seem like a trojan horse on 1 GB PCs if that's the case, as they could have happily kept running Windows 7 but if their PC becomes slow with the anniversary update OR they eventually cut off security patches for Windows 10 'original' they can essentially force those people to buy new PCs. Sure, theoretically they could downgrade to Windows 7, but good luck for the average consumer to figure out how to do that!
I shudder at the thought of running my desktop on Linux. There's just too much software that doesn't exist on Linux. Namely i) a decent email client that can talk to exchange servers ii) a good CAD package iii) MS Office (sorry Libre Office, too slow and not compatible enough) iv) Visual Studio (Eclipse is no where near as good).
A Mac would be a better choice for me, though it's not a complete replacement either.
It appears that it's not technology or business needs pushing planned obsolescence in computers but rather Microsoft not knowing how to write tight, clean code. Add to that all the supposed "W10, Call Home" psuedo-malware and it's no wonder Win10 need 2GB to run. In my opinion, that's just more reason to not install Win10. And the sooner the hardware companies quit feeding the ravenous monster of Redmond by designing their equipment to Redmond's march instead of the their users needs, the better off the industry will be.
Once upon a time (say, 15 years ago), one put $2000+ on one's credit card to buy a nice shiney new PC from, for example, Dell.
These days, a decent PC is well under $1000. About half or a third of the price, even assuming constant dollars.
PC sales down you say? In 'unit sales', so vastly worse in dollars.
Wait until a decent PC is just a lump in the HDMI cable. We're actually just about there. Maybe about four more Moore cycles, so about 8 years.
Future looks bleak for PC vendors.
"Once upon a time (say, 15 years ago), one put $2000+ on one's credit card to buy a nice shiney new PC from, for example, Dell."
And back then many fewer people bought them.
"These days, a decent PC is well under $1000. About half or a third of the price, even assuming constant dollars." Depends on what you call a "decent" PC but again, at a lower price people buy more of them.
Use a local account, not Microsoft account. Easy step to minimize data mining by Microsoft.
It's going to get a lot worse in the coming years: The proliferation of Niantics' Pokemon game's augmented reality and everyone being profiled on a 'grid'. Skynet is nearer than you think.
Windows 10 needs less resources than Windows 7 - when I upgraded Windows runs faster on the same hardware, so unless the Anniversary Update of Windows is a downgrade to bloatware (I haven't upgraded yet), there is no truth to this. Who runs Windows 7 or 8.1 on less than 2 Gb RAM? Everyone I know has 4 or 8Gb, so this is hardly a startlingly high requirement.
"What's next for Windows 10?" The Windows-9-but-we'd-better-not-call-it-that giveaway was less a marketing exercise as an experiment in materials science, the materials being millions of non-techie users, the science being all about pliability: just how far can those users be made to bend to Microshaft's will? If pressure upon them is progressively increased, will they bend yet further -- or break?
For all those who bent over fully to take their Microshafting, the next experiment will be in paid-for updates; after all, their pliability is already established, and so their wallets are within easy reach. For all those who either broke and said farewell, Redmond, or flatly refused to be experimented upon in the first place, what's next for Windows 10, or Microshaft, is of passing interest: a business so contemptuous of its customers is one to be forgotten rather than ever to be forgiven.
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